Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022 (Read 15627 times)

omnigun

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2021, 11:44:42 AM »
"
"So if they manufactured an EG thats sole purpose was not to cause bodily injury it would be fine? "-Yes, no longer fits the definition of a deadly weapon. See below

The definition of a EG goes along the of any mobile devise that transmits an electrical current into another person.  So the prod is now an EG. .  And you're only allowed to use it for specific reasons. Like self defense or protect property.  Also under the EG definition for HI falls TENS units used by physical therapist or other medical devices that pass a current form a mobile devise into another person.   1 doctor wrote to his doctors board and showed them the bill. They then sent it off to the AG's office. The reply from the AG was "we highly doubt a doctor would be prosecuted under the EG law".  Which isn't a no.  And if any patient gets injured from said units, then if they have a smart attorney, they can sue for malpractice and win because the doctor used an EG illegally on them.  The law does not state you can use an EG on another for treatment, or even training purposes.   Even a muscle stimulator sold at walmart is an EG. 

Now you're trying to find a loop hole in the sole purpose.  This is a moot point because an EG is now defined.  Refer to TENS unit example above.  And the moment 1 uses it on someone else, they broke the law if it wasn't for self defense or to protect property.

Would that include a eg that's sole purpose is NOT to be used on people and display only? 

And that last sentence wouldn't cover possession?  No plans to use an EG other than self defense.  Anything electronic is technically capable of transmitting electricity into a human if used improperly. 

changemyoil66

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2021, 11:47:15 AM »
I did testify but I didn't not fully do research.   I just followed advice posted on this forum.

It's important to fully research a new law before you take part in it.  And b4 testifying.  Because we need to be as perfect as possible due to the bias the 2a community gets.

With regard to carrying/using an EG, to say "I didn't know" is not an excuse for breaking the law.  It's a good thing that HRS134-51 pertains to CCWing a EG and not open carrying one.

omnigun

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2021, 11:49:48 AM »
It's important to fully research a new law before you take part in it.  And b4 testifying.  Because we need to be as perfect as possible due to the bias the 2a community gets.

With regard to carrying/using an EG, to say "I didn't know" is not an excuse for breaking the law.  It's a good thing that HRS134-51 pertains to CCWing a EG and not open carrying one.

True if they come out that it is indeed against the law obviously we are all law abiding citizens.  Not everyone is able to fully research.  I relied on those who were and just joined in either opposing or supporting.  Experts exist for a reason. 

changemyoil66

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2021, 11:58:55 AM »
Would that include a eg that's sole purpose is NOT to be used on people and display only? 

And that last sentence wouldn't cover possession?  No plans to use an EG other than self defense.  Anything electronic is technically capable of transmitting electricity into a human if used improperly.

You need to get off the sole purpose part about EG's in HI.  Because HI law defines what an EG is. And what it's sole purpose in HI is moot.  If you're asking about other states, then IDK because I haven't looked up other states laws about EGs.

"And that last sentence wouldn't cover possession?" HI's EG law specifically states possession.  Go read it and understand it so you do not break the law.

" Anything electronic is technically capable of transmitting electricity into a human if used improperly. "  The key is "mobile".  So if you have the fan that's plugged into the wall and cut the wire and shock someone, that doesn't fall under using an EG.  But the TENS units are mobile, so are prods, so are muscle stimulators.  This is how vague the HI law is and why we opposed it.

" No plans to use an EG other than self defense." Plans fail all the time.  And due to the written law, you have to be very careful not to zap another person.  Zapping yourself is totally legal.  Example: You're showing a family member the stun gun portion and the arch jumps from the unit to them and they require medical assistance.  You just broke HI law.  Or say you want to take a training class, this would be a non-firing training class. Most LE/MIL classes require the person to be tased themselves. But then the instructor would be breaking the HI law.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2021, 02:34:39 PM »
Still not what I asked for.   I need a case showing possession not use.  They used a electric device in a offensive way.    A pocket knife that is used in that way would be considered a deadly weapon.  But it's not considered to be one when carried. 

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/assault-with-a-deadly-weapon.html

#flappfakenews
#itsoktobewrong

Goal posts relocated to China ......

You asked for a case not involving Cops.  I gave you that.  Now ..... something else.

A pocket knife has a PURPOSE OTHER THAN being a weapon.  What can you use a Taser for BESIDES as a weapon?

I'm done with you for good.  Have a nice Trolling experience -- without me.

Please remember to stop responding to any of my posts.  You will not be provided the attention you seek.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

omnigun

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2021, 03:14:24 PM »
Goal posts relocated to China ......

You asked for a case not involving Cops.  I gave you that.  Now ..... something else.

A pocket knife has a PURPOSE OTHER THAN being a weapon.  What can you use a Taser for BESIDES as a weapon?

I'm done with you for good.  Have a nice Trolling experience -- without me.

Please remember to stop responding to any of my posts.  You will not be provided the attention you seek.

If you can read,  I've said many things like a toy.  It makes a cool sound and lights.   Manufacturers can edit the use case for any item they sell.  For example a cattle prod.   I've seen electric arc toys.  There are electric lighters. 

Purchase X electric device today:  This device is not designed for use against humans or animals and a display device only. 

I will respond to any posts I deem necessary,  its up to you if you wish to reply. 

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2021, 03:43:11 PM »
If you can read,  I've said many things like a toy.  It makes a cool sound and lights.   Manufacturers can edit the use case for any item they sell.  For example a cattle prod.   I've seen electric arc toys.  There are electric lighters. 

Purchase X electric device today:  This device is not designed for use against humans or animals and a display device only. 

I will respond to any posts I deem necessary,  its up to you if you wish to reply.

Please show where the manufacturer of TASERS says anything close to the BS you posted.

A "toy" that delivers 50,000 volts.

Right.....

This topic is about TASERS and STUN GUNS, not cattle prods and lighters.

This is why I hate you.  You can't have an honest discussion.  Everything is a debate with you, and you have to be on the opposite side of everything.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

changemyoil66

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2021, 03:51:22 PM »
Please show where the manufacturer of TASERS says anything close to the BS you posted.

A "toy" that delivers 50,000 volts.

Right.....

This topic is about TASERS and STUN GUNS, not cattle prods and lighters.

This is why I hate you.  You can't have an honest discussion.  Everything is a debate with you, and you have to be on the opposite side of everything.
Only he would go infront a judge and try to use that argument. Then pout and stomp his feet once the judge says try again. Probably move goalpost too.

I  stated that the intended purpose is moot in HI for EGs. So if a "toy" is made is irrelevant.  Same goes with prods. Guess he did an omni and not read past the first sentence.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2021, 03:58:31 PM »
Only he would go infront a judge and try to use that argument. Then pout and stomp his feet once the judge says try again. Probably move goalpost too.

I  stated that the intended purpose is moot in HI for EGs. So if a "toy" is made is irrelevant.  Same goes with prods. Guess he did an omni and not read past the first sentence.

In his world, all firearms are toys if the user says they are -- "they make cool lights and sounds."
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

omnigun

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2021, 04:04:57 PM »
Please show where the manufacturer of TASERS says anything close to the BS you posted.

A "toy" that delivers 50,000 volts.

Right.....

This topic is about TASERS and STUN GUNS, not cattle prods and lighters.

This is why I hate you.  You can't have an honest discussion.  Everything is a debate with you, and you have to be on the opposite side of everything.

My entire discussion with oil was not to call them Tasers and Stun guns but electric guns/devices.  Oil enlightened me that I was using the incorrect term because the law covers them all. 

We live in a capitalist society,  if a law passes in a state of 1,000,000 potential customers its only a matter of time before a company comes up with a solution.  We have seen this countless times with failed attempts at gun control or other regulations.

Because its designed for use against another human not sure but this would not qualify as intended to harm....its intended to pleasure  :rofl:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000577155808.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.53403966kAtapg&algo_pvid=0b5d50a5-45fb-4f2f-8a26-e7398f63f09a&algo_exp_id=0b5d50a5-45fb-4f2f-8a26-e7398f63f09a-20

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2021, 04:12:33 PM »
My entire discussion with oil was not to call them Tasers and Stun guns but electric guns/devices.  Oil enlightened me that I was using the incorrect term because the law covers them all. 

We live in a capitalist society,  if a law passes in a state of 1,000,000 potential customers its only a matter of time before a company comes up with a solution.  We have seen this countless times with failed attempts at gun control or other regulations.

Because its designed for use against another human not sure but this would not qualify as intended to harm....its intended to pleasure  :rofl:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000577155808.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.53403966kAtapg&algo_pvid=0b5d50a5-45fb-4f2f-8a26-e7398f63f09a&algo_exp_id=0b5d50a5-45fb-4f2f-8a26-e7398f63f09a-20

Your example device uses 50,000 volts?  You should experiment if it does.

You're moving the goal posts.

Reality is what it is.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/tasers-no-longer-non-lethal-alternative-law-enforcement

Quote
Since 2001, more than 500 people in the United States have died after law enforcement officers used this weapon against them. A study published this week by the American Heart Association’s Circulation Journal confirms that the misuse of a Taser can cause sudden cardiac arrest and death.   
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 04:26:05 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

omnigun

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2021, 04:59:14 PM »
Your example device uses 50,000 volts?  You should experiment if it does.

You're moving the goal posts.

Reality is what it is.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/tasers-no-longer-non-lethal-alternative-law-enforcement

There's different voltage and devices.  Not all electric guns/devices are the same.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2021, 05:03:20 PM »
There's different voltage and devices.  Not all electric guns/devices are the same.

Please explain where the threshold is between "weapon" and "non-weapon" for Tasers in terms of volts.

Please post sources to back up your facts.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2021, 05:05:41 PM »
Clue:

Quote
According to my research, the smallest voltage possible to purchase in a taser
while still being effective is 25,000 volts.
To see more of the specific differences
in the effects of weak and strong tasers, check out some videos online.

So, how many volts are in a taser? Although there are several different types of
tasers on the market, the average voltage found in many tasers is around 50,000
volts. However, if you are not very comfortable using a taser with that much voltage,
there are several smaller, weaker options available on the market.

https://taserguide.com/how-many-volts-in-a-taser/
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

omnigun

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2021, 05:06:52 PM »
Please explain where the threshold is between "weapon" and "non-weapon" for Tasers in terms of volts.

Please post sources to back up your facts.

There is none, hence why this is such a gray area and hard issue...my point exactly.   Whos allowed to say what use something is.  Is a electric toy at 10000 volts different enough than 50k?  You can make guns that are toys, though currently none of them shoot bullets.  Oil has pointed out several times why the law is bad cause they don't give specifics.  Without specifics we can only guess or take our chances in court.  Vague laws tend to be un-enforceable.

omnigun

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2021, 05:09:05 PM »
Clue:

https://taserguide.com/how-many-volts-in-a-taser/

Still not enough of a definition, is a 24,999 volt gun just a toy?  Are there scientific studies showing what is dangerous and what's not?  That's part of the qualification for the law.   These vague laws serve no purpose other than to waste time and energy.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2021, 05:09:19 PM »
There is none, hence why this is such a gray area and hard issue...my point exactly.   Whos allowed to say what use something is.  Is a electric toy at 10000 volts different enough than 50k?  You can make guns that are toys, though currently none of them shoot bullets.  Oil has pointed out several times why the law is bad cause they don't give specifics.  Without specifics we can only guess or take our chances in court.  Vague laws tend to be un-enforceable.

I just posted the FACT.  You lied.

25,000 volts is the threshold.

#StopLying
#TrollBoy
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2021, 05:10:25 PM »
Still not enough of a definition, is a 24,999 volt gun just a toy?  Are there scientific studies showing what is dangerous and what's not?  That's part of the qualification for the law.

You have to provide such studies to refute that fact.  Just posting a comment challenging its accuracy without any evidence is deflection.  Period.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

omnigun

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2021, 05:10:40 PM »
I just posted the FACT.  You lied.

25,000 volts is the threshold.

#StopLying
#TrollBoy

I just replied about this....is it a national standard?  Who made this fact?  What laws back it up?  What legal definitions are there on record....keep trying


You have to provide such studies to refute that fact.  Just posting a comment challenging its accuracy without any evidence is deflection.  Period.

So some article on a webpage is definition of legal advice and restrictions eh...

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Legal Taser/ Stun Gun passing 2022
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2021, 05:19:39 PM »
I just replied about this....is it a national standard?  Who made this fact?  What laws back it up?  What legal definitions are there on record....keep trying


So some article on a webpage is definition of legal advice and restrictions eh...

What's the national standard for magazine capacities?  None?  Then how do manufacturers know what the "standard" capacity is for their firearms?

#Dumbass
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall