FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center (Read 2488 times)

changemyoil66

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2024, 07:33:57 AM »
Strawman

Hahahhaha. Still waiting for u to post a constitutional one, like how you said there "may" be one.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2024, 11:14:44 AM »
All G, as red flags are constitutional as 1 would say.
Strawman

Did he say he was referring to you specifically?

You seem determined to defend your position even after you've all but admitted the way red flag laws work today are not constitutional.

The best you've been able to offer is there MAY be a way to make them constitutional, but that's purely hypothetical witout a shred of supporting facts or real-world evidence of how that would be done.

Just stop with the back and forth.  Admit you now agree with CMO instead of arguing over a lost cause.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

hvybarrels

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2024, 05:24:23 PM »
Looks like the reeducation camps theory wasn’t too far off the mark after all

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=52969.0
“Wars happen when the government tells you who the enemy is. Revolutions happen when you figure it out for yourselves.”

eyeeatingfish

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2024, 10:32:40 PM »
Hahahhaha. Still waiting for u to post a constitutional one, like how you said there "may" be one.

Swoosh

eyeeatingfish

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2024, 10:46:15 PM »
Did he say he was referring to you specifically?

Don't insult my intelligence.



Quote
You seem determined to defend your position even after you've all but admitted the way red flag laws work today are not constitutional.

The best you've been able to offer is there MAY be a way to make them constitutional, but that's purely hypothetical witout a shred of supporting facts or real-world evidence of how that would be done.

Just stop with the back and forth.  Admit you now agree with CMO instead of arguing over a lost cause.

Here we go in circles again. Unlike you, I am able to not paint with a broad brush and only in black and white. Concept and application are two different things. The devil is in the details.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2024, 12:27:56 AM »
Don't insult my intelligence.



Here we go in circles again. Unlike you, I am able to not paint with a broad brush and only in black and white. Concept and application are two different things. The devil is in the details.

Wrong.

There's the real world (aka reality) and there's the conceptualized world (aka make believe).

Ever hear the term "concept car?" Those are prototype mockups that are not intended to be produced for sale.  Most of them don't even run or qualify as street legal.  They are for show only, to get enthusiasts excited about what might be possible one day.  The thing is, they only exist in the minds of the designers and the concept models they created for ooohs and aaaahs.

That's how you sound.  You argue with nothing but concepts and hypotheses to pad your make believe "facts".

If you really want to discuss real world, adult issues like red flag laws, you should stick to reality.  Maybe you'd actually learn something instead of just making crap up.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

changemyoil66

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2024, 09:24:59 AM »
Swoosh
Hahhaha, trying to play.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Flapp_Jackson

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2024, 11:28:03 AM »
Hahhaha, trying to play.

His version of, "I know you are, but what am I?"

Nothing original to offer.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

ren

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2024, 11:49:31 AM »
hubris
Deeds Not Words

eyeeatingfish

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2024, 11:07:43 PM »
Wrong.

There's the real world (aka reality) and there's the conceptualized world (aka make believe).

Ever hear the term "concept car?" Those are prototype mockups that are not intended to be produced for sale.  Most of them don't even run or qualify as street legal.  They are for show only, to get enthusiasts excited about what might be possible one day.  The thing is, they only exist in the minds of the designers and the concept models they created for ooohs and aaaahs.

That's how you sound.  You argue with nothing but concepts and hypotheses to pad your make believe "facts".

If you really want to discuss real world, adult issues like red flag laws, you should stick to reality.  Maybe you'd actually learn something instead of just making crap up.

Once again you are making blanket statements. I said that they can exist meaning if you put enough due process protections a red flag law could be created that is constitutional. Making a blanket statement that all red flag laws are unconstitutional ignores that reality.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2024, 02:45:28 AM »
Once again you are making blanket statements. I said that they can exist meaning if you put enough due process protections a red flag law could be created that is constitutional. Making a blanket statement that all red flag laws are unconstitutional ignores that reality.

Why do you feel the need to repeat yourself over and over on this issue?

We know what you said, and we also know "if you put enough due process protections" can't be done / hasn't been done -- i.e. is not possible.  That's not reality -- it's your "concept car" of a constitutional red flag law -- it does not exist anywhere except your thoughts.  Yet, you call something that "could be created" reality.  You obviously don't understand that reality is not something you believe can exist.  It exists, or it doesn't.  A "possibility", no matter how attainable it may be, is not reality.

A shit sandwich doesn't taste like shit if you take the shit out of it .... but doesn't that make it NOT a shit sandwich?

It's basic logic.  What might exist has to be within the realm of what's possible.  We disagree that there is a way to create red flag laws while simultaneously providing actual due process.  You keep arguing it's possible, but you've yet to give an example where that's been done.  It's reasonable to assume, then, that if it could have been done, it already would have been.  Yet, here we are -- with you repeating yourself again.

Quote
Possibilists claim that we can: we must simply broaden our understanding of reality,
of what there is in the broadest sense, beyond the actual, beyond what actually exists,
so that it also includes the merely possible. In particular, says the possibilist, there are
merely possible people, things that are not, in fact, people but which could have been.
So, for the possibilist, (4) is true after all so long as we acknowledge that reality also
includes possibilia, things that are not in fact actual but which could have been; things that
do not in fact exist alongside us in the concrete world but which could have. Actualism is
(at the least) the denial of possibilism; to be an actualist is to deny that there are any possibilia.
Put another way, for the actualist, there is no realm of reality, or being, beyond actual existence;
to be is to exist, and to exist is to be actual. In this article, we will investigate the origins and
nature of the debate between possibilists and actualists.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/possibilism-actualism/

You should read that entire article.  Maybe you'll learn something about the difference between reality vs. possibility.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 02:52:39 AM by Flapp_Jackson »
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

macsak

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2024, 06:27:09 AM »
could =/= are
#nuance

Once again you are making blanket statements. I said that they can exist meaning if you put enough due process protections a red flag law could be created that is constitutional. Making a blanket statement that all red flag laws are unconstitutional ignores that reality.

changemyoil66

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2024, 07:43:44 AM »
Once again you are making blanket statements. I said that they can exist meaning if you put enough due process protections a red flag law could be created that is constitutional. Making a blanket statement that all red flag laws are unconstitutional ignores that reality.

I still hold that ALL red flag laws are unconstitutional. Still waiting for you to post 1 that is. I mean, you tried since you posted HI's one, but left out a HUGE portion of it. Which means in your mind, one did/does exist. And since you haven't posted any other states ones, you were wrong and refuse to admit it again. Thanks for playing.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2024, 10:16:11 AM »
I still hold that ALL red flag laws are unconstitutional. Still waiting for you to post 1 that is. I mean, you tried since you posted HI's one, but left out a HUGE portion of it. Which means in your mind, one did/does exist. And since you haven't posted any other states ones, you were wrong and refuse to admit it again. Thanks for playing.

i posted about the difference between "what's possible" and "reality" more than once, because he keeps on arguing in many topics that "blanket statements" may not be correct -- blah blah blah.

No actual examples to support his statement other than "it's possible."

That's a position only someone intent on arguing for the sake of subjective objectivity and nuance-laced arguing would hold.

It's possible that a thousand years from now, the US will have a brand new Constitution which redefines the 2A into not a right to keep and bear arms, but a collection of privileges to include owning revolvers and double barrel shotguns only.  The possibility makes it reality, so it's a valid point.

"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

changemyoil66

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2024, 12:18:48 PM »
i posted about the difference between "what's possible" and "reality" more than once, because he keeps on arguing in many topics that "blanket statements" may not be correct -- blah blah blah.

No actual examples to support his statement other than "it's possible."

That's a position only someone intent on arguing for the sake of subjective objectivity and nuance-laced arguing would hold.

It's possible that a thousand years from now, the US will have a brand new Constitution which redefines the 2A into not a right to keep and bear arms, but a collection of privileges to include owning revolvers and double barrel shotguns only.  The possibility makes it reality, so it's a valid point.

Then say some mechinism was created, would it still be considered a "red flag law"?  Or would they call it something else as it defeats the purpose of the red flag law.

And B4 he tries again to weasel out of it, every state that has one, has the common elements: Guns taken away without due process, the person isn't in jail/no bond needed, the person has no clue it's going down, the person now is guilty until they can prove they're innocent at which point they will then get their guns back.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2024, 03:00:20 PM »
Then say some mechinism was created, would it still be considered a "red flag law"?  Or would they call it something else as it defeats the purpose of the red flag law.

And B4 he tries again to weasel out of it, every state that has one, has the common elements: Guns taken away without due process, the person isn't in jail/no bond needed, the person has no clue it's going down, the person now is guilty until they can prove they're innocent at which point they will then get their guns back.

Given the scenario you outlined, it's foreseeable that such a process could worsen the situation.  Ambushing a father/husband to confiscate his guns alone is enough to send an already angry person over the edge in some cases. 

As we've recently seen, nobody needs a gun to murder their entire family.  Either lock him up, or stop trying to take his guns.  Keep poking the bear, and you just might be the reason he attacks.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

ren

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2024, 03:38:33 PM »
Deeds Not Words

eyeeatingfish

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2024, 01:35:12 AM »
I still hold that ALL red flag laws are unconstitutional. Still waiting for you to post 1 that is. I mean, you tried since you posted HI's one, but left out a HUGE portion of it. Which means in your mind, one did/does exist. And since you haven't posted any other states ones, you were wrong and refuse to admit it again. Thanks for playing.

Have you read ALL the red flag laws? Or are you making assumptions.

I made the case that Hawaii's red flag laws had due process. You still refuse to admit it. Thanks for playing.

eyeeatingfish

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2024, 01:35:42 AM »
could =/= are
#nuance

I never claimed them to be the same

eyeeatingfish

Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: DOJ Starts National Red Flag Center
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2024, 01:39:02 AM »
Why do you feel the need to repeat yourself over and over on this issue?

Probably the same reason you feel the need to repeat yourself over and over on this issue. 

Quote
You keep arguing it's possible, but you've yet to give an example where that's been done.

Thats a dumb argument. No one would ever invent new things with that attitude.