Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight (Read 15816 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2020, 11:38:17 AM »


If a person is brought up on drug charges do you think an officer just shows a picture of a white powder and says it looks like cocaine therefore it is? Of course not, they test it. So if the guy in that photo were brought up on a firearm charge and he told the jury that it was just an airsoft gun then how do you think the prosecutor is going to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the man had a firearm and not just an airsoft gun?

So what if no white powder is found, but there is video of the person trying to sell it and pass it off as cocaine?  Would that be enough for at least an arrest?  Or would narcotics just say never mind, got no powder so no evidence.

Bicep guy has video of him holding a Glock in his hand.  He stated on social media that he wish he unloaded into Kyle.  Unloaded what, BBs?  And after those 2 things, no charges or even the prosecutors office mentioning a hint of a charge or not charging. They are silent.  Not even an arrest by local PD.

Lets compare this to the WA antifa neck tattoo guy who killed a Trump supporter walking in the street.  No gun was recovered prior to the PD going on the hunt for him.  How do we know that someone in a building didn't shoot the Trump supporter and the tattoo guy's gun was just an airsoft?  And it was just coincidental timing.

Bicep guy is hailed a hero by the left and even did a few interviews and allowed to speak on stage. 

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2020, 09:02:42 PM »
Another non-answer, full of generic, unrelated gobbledygook.

Accused victim?  LOL!  Victim of what?  Self defense?

Your Liberal mindset is on full display.

These are basic tenants of the justice system. The accused doesn't have to prove himself innocent, the prosecution has to prove they are guilty. I know you already know this.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2020, 09:15:32 PM »
So what if no white powder is found, but there is video of the person trying to sell it and pass it off as cocaine?  Would that be enough for at least an arrest?  Or would narcotics just say never mind, got no powder so no evidence.

Bicep guy has video of him holding a Glock in his hand.  He stated on social media that he wish he unloaded into Kyle.  Unloaded what, BBs?  And after those 2 things, no charges or even the prosecutors office mentioning a hint of a charge or not charging. They are silent.  Not even an arrest by local PD.

Lets compare this to the WA antifa neck tattoo guy who killed a Trump supporter walking in the street.  No gun was recovered prior to the PD going on the hunt for him.  How do we know that someone in a building didn't shoot the Trump supporter and the tattoo guy's gun was just an airsoft?  And it was just coincidental timing.

Bicep guy is hailed a hero by the left and even did a few interviews and allowed to speak on stage.



Lets say the cops have a video of you sniffing a white powdery substance but they never recovered any of the substance. How would a prosecutor prove that you ingested or had cocaine and not some other substance? Some states have laws that cover fake drugs. So if you sold an undercover cop wheat flour and said it was cocaine they could arrest you for that.

As for bicep guy, we can all put two and two together and make a safe assumption that he had an actual gun in his hand but as the saying goes, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. Can a prosecutor convince a jury of 12 people beyond a reasonable doubt that the bicep guy had a real firearm? The defense attorney would likely present the case that his client only had a BB gun and they could produce some Glock looking airsoft/bb gun and show it to the jury. Then make some sort of argument painting their client as the victim and ask how the jury can convict a man of a felony with no proof he was holding a real firearm. How would a prosecutor overcome that story to convince a jury that there is no reasonable way it was just a BB gun?

I don't know the details of the antifa guy that shot a Trump supporter but the fact that a bullet went through the guy's body is pretty strong proof that it was fired from a firearm. I would assume they have some sort of witness that they can say they saw a firearm or heard a bang and saw a flash of light consistent with a firearm. Again, just speculating since I don't know the details of the case.

bass monkey

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2020, 09:19:32 PM »


Lets say the cops have a video of you sniffing a white powdery substance but they never recovered any of the substance. How would a prosecutor prove that you ingested or had cocaine and not some other substance? Some states have laws that cover fake drugs. So if you sold an undercover cop wheat flour and said it was cocaine they could arrest you for that.

As for bicep guy, we can all put two and two together and make a safe assumption that he had an actual gun in his hand but as the saying goes, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. Can a prosecutor convince a jury of 12 people beyond a reasonable doubt that the bicep guy had a real firearm? The defense attorney would likely present the case that his client only had a BB gun and they could produce some Glock looking airsoft/bb gun and show it to the jury. Then make some sort of argument painting their client as the victim and ask how the jury can convict a man of a felony with no proof he was holding a real firearm. How would a prosecutor overcome that story to convince a jury that there is no reasonable way it was just a BB gun?

I don't know the details of the antifa guy that shot a Trump supporter but the fact that a bullet went through the guy's body is pretty strong proof that it was fired from a firearm. I would assume they have some sort of witness that they can say they saw a firearm or heard a bang and saw a flash of light consistent with a firearm. Again, just speculating since I don't know the details of the case.

Kyle is guilty of murder because the defense can't prove weather it was a real or fake gun?

Hahhahahah

drck1000

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2020, 09:26:24 PM »
These are basic tenants of the justice system. The accused doesn't have to prove himself innocent, the prosecution has to prove they are guilty. I know you already know this.
Except in BLM victim cases. Media and public opinion already passes a “death sentence”. I know you already know this...

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2020, 11:37:38 PM »


Lets say the cops have a video of you sniffing a white powdery substance but they never recovered any of the substance. How would a prosecutor prove that you ingested or had cocaine and not some other substance? Some states have laws that cover fake drugs. So if you sold an undercover cop wheat flour and said it was cocaine they could arrest you for that.

As for bicep guy, we can all put two and two together and make a safe assumption that he had an actual gun in his hand but as the saying goes, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. Can a prosecutor convince a jury of 12 people beyond a reasonable doubt that the bicep guy had a real firearm? The defense attorney would likely present the case that his client only had a BB gun and they could produce some Glock looking airsoft/bb gun and show it to the jury. Then make some sort of argument painting their client as the victim and ask how the jury can convict a man of a felony with no proof he was holding a real firearm. How would a prosecutor overcome that story to convince a jury that there is no reasonable way it was just a BB gun?

I don't know the details of the antifa guy that shot a Trump supporter but the fact that a bullet went through the guy's body is pretty strong proof that it was fired from a firearm. I would assume they have some sort of witness that they can say they saw a firearm or heard a bang and saw a flash of light consistent with a firearm. Again, just speculating since I don't know the details of the case.

That's not a saying.  It's a line from a movie.

Training Day

Denzel Washington

"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2020, 08:55:14 PM »
Except in BLM victim cases. Media and public opinion already passes a “death sentence”. I know you already know this...

Oh heck yeah.

Looking at the toxicology reports, the 4 cops associated with George Floyd's death are going to get off of the murder charge but they will try to make something stick. Either way going to have riots after.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2020, 08:56:29 PM »
Kyle is guilty of murder because the defense can't prove weather it was a real or fake gun?

Hahhahahah

What?
I think you aren't following. It wasn't about Kyle at all, it was about the dude that kyle shot in the arm, the guy seen holding what looks like a handgun, who couldn't legally possess a gun.

macsak

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2020, 09:26:00 PM »
What?
I think you aren't following. It wasn't about Kyle at all, it was about the dude that kyle shot in the arm, the guy seen holding what looks like a handgun, who couldn't legally possess a gun.

you aren't following...

drck1000

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2020, 08:51:43 AM »
Oh heck yeah.

Looking at the toxicology reports, the 4 cops associated with George Floyd's death are going to get off of the murder charge but they will try to make something stick. Either way going to have riots after.
Separate, but somewhat related topic.  Have you seen the uncut/edited versions of the officers' body cam footage for Brionna Taylor?  Both the officer outside and the SWAT/reaction team that first entered the apartment? 

zippz

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2020, 09:49:21 AM »
Sounds like there is a lot of confusion in this topic and it's confusing to go through.  Need to break everything down into components and be specific on which one your talking about

1.  Can bicep guy legally carry a gun?
2.  Is bicep guy justified in attacking Kyle?
3.  Is Kyle justified in shooting bicep guy?

Regarding an airsoft pistol:
For 1 - If the assumption is bicep guy couldn't posses a gun, then the prosecution would need to prove the gun was real as an element of a crime ie. Felon with a gun or something.  The defense stating it was an airsoft could be reasonable doubt to win the case.  If the prosecution had video of the gun shooting and wounding someone, then they could prove their case without having the gun.

For 2 - an example is an attempted murder charge on bicep guy.  Let's assume all other elements are met, the prosecution would need to prove the gun is real as he would have the means to commit the crime, an element needed to convict.  If the prosecutors didn't have the gun, the defense could say it was an airsoft therefore he did not have the means to murder Kyle.

For 3 - The prosecutors focus is on Kyle and they would need to prove his gun is real and that he shot bicep guy.  Prosecutors can prove that with video, witnesses, and forensics without needing the rifle.  On Kyle's side, they don't need to prove bicep guys handgun is real.  For a self defense claim they need to state Kyle felt threatened by it, that he saw what appeared to be a gun and that he was afraid it would be used on him.

Bicep guy and skateboard guy actions could also be seen as self-defense of others.  They see Kyle shooting baldy and are afraid Kyle will shoot others so they attempt to bring Kyle down.
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drck1000

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2020, 10:00:14 AM »
SNIP

Bicep guy and skateboard guy actions could also be seen as self-defense of others.  They see Kyle shooting baldy and are afraid Kyle will shoot others so they attempt to bring Kyle down.
That would be an interesting angle and for SJW to try that. . .

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2020, 10:09:08 AM »
Bicep guy and skateboard guy actions could also be seen as self-defense of others.  They see Kyle shooting baldy and are afraid Kyle will shoot others so they attempt to bring Kyle down.

That only holds water if Kyle was firing before they attacked him.  In the video, he's not.

Kyle was retreating, not shooting at or attacking anyone before he was assaulted.  The defense would be stupid to claim otherwise.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2020, 08:37:38 PM »
Separate, but somewhat related topic.  Have you seen the uncut/edited versions of the officers' body cam footage for Brionna Taylor?  Both the officer outside and the SWAT/reaction team that first entered the apartment?

I saw the video where they are putting on a tourniquet or some bandage on the officer who got shot in the leg. I am not aware of any other video of that incident. What does it show?

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2020, 08:40:25 PM »
That would be an interesting angle and for SJW to try that. . .

Thats where his lawyer comes in, painting him as just some concerned citizen trying to stop a gun wielding crazy guy. Though I believe there is video of him earlier in the night doing or saying something that would show that to be not the case. I can't recall exactly what was contained in it though.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2020, 08:46:36 PM »
That only holds water if Kyle was firing before they attacked him.  In the video, he's not.

Kyle was retreating, not shooting at or attacking anyone before he was assaulted.  The defense would be stupid to claim otherwise.

On the grand scheme of things you correct but the standard is objective reasonableness. So, was bicep guy's actions reasonable given what he believed to be at the time he acted? We can't judge bicep guy's actions after we know everything. What did bicep guy know and when did he know it? When he attacked Kyle, did he know Kyle had just defended himself or did he have some reason to believe that Kyle was the aggressor and he was just trying to detain/stop Kyle.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2020, 09:55:43 PM »
On the grand scheme of things you correct but the standard is objective reasonableness. So, was bicep guy's actions reasonable given what he believed to be at the time he acted? We can't judge bicep guy's actions after we know everything. What did bicep guy know and when did he know it? When he attacked Kyle, did he know Kyle had just defended himself or did he have some reason to believe that Kyle was the aggressor and he was just trying to detain/stop Kyle.

Given that he and others were chasing Kyle, if he thought there was a threat (Kyle), he never once gave any indication that was the case. You can't chase someone down while holding a firearm and claim you were acting in self defense.  At that point, you have no right to become a vigilante, chasing down who you say you believe is a bad guy.  No authority, and in the final analysis, no justification.

The "I feared for my life" defense is for when you are actually defending yourself or others from a threat.  Kyle was retreating.  By definition, he was not a threat.  Bicep guy was running after Kyle, not from him.  He became AN ARMED AGGRESSOR from that point on.

Anybody can lie and say "I believed" whatever.  But if he's carrying a firearm, his judgement has to be better than, "I was trying to stop/detain someone other people were yelling at and chasing."

Mob mentality was apparent.  He has no logical or rational defense.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

drck1000

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2020, 12:10:08 PM »
I saw the video where they are putting on a tourniquet or some bandage on the officer who got shot in the leg. I am not aware of any other video of that incident. What does it show?
Can’t find the videos now. But, both countered the MSM narrative that started riots.

First was officer outside when the BF came out. He was crying and he said he didn’t fire the shot. It was Brionna. He was clearly distraught, so maybe he was mistaken.

Second was the SWAT officer who first entered and Brionna’s body was found in the hallway. Not in her bed as the MSM reported as an innocent woman who was slaughtered sleeping quietly in her bed. Did MSM cover that? Sorta. The videos I’ve seen cut off or edit out both portions.

But yup, no media bias... (not at you EEF).

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2020, 09:56:02 PM »
Given that he and others were chasing Kyle, if he thought there was a threat (Kyle), he never once gave any indication that was the case. You can't chase someone down while holding a firearm and claim you were acting in self defense.  At that point, you have no right to become a vigilante, chasing down who you say you believe is a bad guy.  No authority, and in the final analysis, no justification.

The "I feared for my life" defense is for when you are actually defending yourself or others from a threat.  Kyle was retreating.  By definition, he was not a threat.  Bicep guy was running after Kyle, not from him.  He became AN ARMED AGGRESSOR from that point on.

Anybody can lie and say "I believed" whatever.  But if he's carrying a firearm, his judgement has to be better than, "I was trying to stop/detain someone other people were yelling at and chasing."

Mob mentality was apparent.  He has no logical or rational defense.

Brave people can't chase down a crazy gunmen who killed someone? Think a little more like a defense attorney for bicep guy, see how the defense attorney would try to present the actions of bicep guy. The defense doesn't have to be right the defense just has to make a juror question whether bicep guy was really the aggressor or a good samaritan instead. 

Running towards the threat doesn't prove one is not afraid by the way.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bringing a Skateboard to a Gunfight
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2020, 10:01:37 PM »
Can’t find the videos now. But, both countered the MSM narrative that started riots.

First was officer outside when the BF came out. He was crying and he said he didn’t fire the shot. It was Brionna. He was clearly distraught, so maybe he was mistaken.

Second was the SWAT officer who first entered and Brionna’s body was found in the hallway. Not in her bed as the MSM reported as an innocent woman who was slaughtered sleeping quietly in her bed. Did MSM cover that? Sorta. The videos I’ve seen cut off or edit out both portions.

But yup, no media bias... (not at you EEF).

Ok, good to know because I haven't seen all of that footage. I do know that the in bed narrative was false, that has been out for a little while but as we all know the first and worst narrative is the one everyone seems to believe and the corrected info never gets the traction. Sometimes it is the media's fault like how they edited the 911 call of the Treyvon Martin shooting, other times it is just a liar who said something to the news and it stuck in society like the "hands up don't shoot" story.