THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER (Read 1850 times)

Inspector

THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« on: October 12, 2021, 05:31:46 AM »
THE .22 PISTOL

A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER

https://gunsmagazine.com/discover/the-22-pistol/

Great article which I fully agree with. So share with me some personal information:

1. How many .22 pistols do you own?

2. What pistol did you start/learn to shoot with?

3. A lot of people own a special .22 pistol that has a special (family?) history to it. Do you have one that is special to you? If so what is the story behind it?

4. What, if any, .22 pistols do you intend to buy? And why?

I’ll start this out:

1. I own 4 .22 pistols. All are made by a company called High Standard. Some of you may or maynot have heard of this company. Three of them are semi autos and one is a western style revolver. Three of them were made in the mid 1970’s and one was made in 1943.

2. I started and learned shooting on a High Standard semi auto. My father bought it for me to learn on. It was the Dura-Matic model which is not a true High Standard as the design was licensed by High Standard to sell as their bottom end .22. This design was the precursor to the Beretta Neos if my memory is correct.

3. I own a High Standard Trophy model with a 7.25” fluted target barrel. It was my father’s favorite gun to go to the range with. I take it out on occasion and I think about the times we went shooting together and he would almost always bring it with him.

4. I am currently in the market for a Ruger MK IV 22/45 Lite version with threaded barrel. I intend to make a project out of it by upgrading the trigger, adding a red dot and adding a suppressor. I want it for when I go out to the desert to plink and to use to bring new people into shooting. The other .22 I want is a Ruger LCP in .22. I hear these are terrific little guns and fun to shoot. Also, I have fallen in love with pocket carry so I want to be able to carry it under certain circumstances.
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drck1000

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2021, 06:06:36 AM »
I’ll play

1. How many .22 pistols do you own?
(2). S&W M&P 22 (really a clone), and a High Standard (was my dad’s).

2. What pistol did you start/learn to shoot with?
Random range rental guns. The ones I remember are Sig 220&228. More serious learning/training was Glock 17. My M&P was primarily to teach others.

3. A lot of people own a special .22 pistol that has a special (family?) history to it. Do you have one that is special to you? If so what is the story behind it?
High Standard 106, which was my dad’s. I think it was one of his faves and he had a decent amount of ammo for it. However, I didn’t know he had it until after he passed away. When we shot, he mostly shot his 1911 and my rifles.

4. What, if any, .22 pistols do you intend to buy? And why?
I would love a Ruger MkIV or similar S&W model (based on looks) with an RDS.

DocMercy

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2021, 06:12:41 AM »
I prefer the S&W 41 Performance Center and the Volquartsen Scorpion .22 LR. Neither gun is being stocked by a LGS on Oahu, and probably elsewhere in HI. S&W's decision to relocate some of its production to a southern state could add to the supply drought. I can't comment on the QC issues of setting up a new factory. When Gibson guitars moved from Michigan to Tennessee, quality diminished and it took years to get back on track. People matter as much as machinery.
Given the lack of power, these guns may require head shots in a home defense situation. Also in great shortage is CCI .22LR ammo. Our hands are tied behind our backs by the inventory problem.

Inspector

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2021, 06:29:30 AM »
I’ll play

1. How many .22 pistols do you own?
(2). S&W M&P 22 (really a clone), and a High Standard (was my dad’s).

2. What pistol did you start/learn to shoot with?
Random range rental guns. The ones I remember are Sig 220&228. More serious learning/training was Glock 17. My M&P was primarily to teach others.

3. A lot of people own a special .22 pistol that has a special (family?) history to it. Do you have one that is special to you? If so what is the story behind it?
High Standard 106, which was my dad’s. I think it was one of his faves and he had a decent amount of ammo for it. However, I didn’t know he had it until after he passed away. When we shot, he mostly shot his 1911 and my rifles.

4. What, if any, .22 pistols do you intend to buy? And why?
I would love a Ruger MkIV or similar S&W model (based on looks) with an RDS.
I thought about your Dad’s HS pistol when I wrote that question #3. It is too bad you don’t know more about the history of the gun as it relates to your Dad. I have always told you that if you ever want to part with it, I would love to have first crack at it. But I know you never will. I want it because I know I can’t have it. The memories a firearm can conjure up are priceless.

I like the S&W Victory model. It is an excellent gun at an excellent price. There are a lot of aftermarket parts for it as well. I like the Ruger MKIV as well. There are so many variants of it available it is hard to decide which one to choose. And there are a ton of aftermarket parts and mods for it as well. I used to have a MKIII and a MKII. One had the 5” bull barrel I used for target practice and the other had a short tapered lighter weight barrel I used for plinking. I wish I had never sold them.
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macsak

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2021, 07:24:27 AM »
I prefer the S&W 41 Performance Center and the Volquartsen Scorpion .22 LR. Neither gun is being stocked by a LGS on Oahu, and probably elsewhere in HI. S&W's decision to relocate some of its production to a southern state could add to the supply drought. I can't comment on the QC issues of setting up a new factory. When Gibson guitars moved from Michigan to Tennessee, quality diminished and it took years to get back on track. People matter as much as machinery.
Given the lack of power, these guns may require head shots in a home defense situation. Also in great shortage is CCI .22LR ammo. Our hands are tied behind our backs by the inventory problem.

i toured the gibson factory in TN in late 2018
very little was done by machine
i want to say it was the lamination and gluing on the neck that was the only thing
it was like when i toured the porsche factory in 2002
at that time the only 2 automated systems were weighing and selecting matched sets of pistons/connecting rods and the placement of the bead of glue around the windshield...

stangzilla

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2021, 09:16:02 AM »
I have 3 22LR handguns: Single Ten, LCR, Mark IV Hunter
all great plinkers, all Rugers  ;)
everyone that shoots the Mark IV Hunter, likes it.  I think the Single Ten is just as accurate maybe more accurate, but some people especially new shooters don't like the extra work of the SA.  but once you get the timing of the cylinder to unload it one at a time, its not bad. and the SA trigger isn't bad for factory.  i wish i had a convertible 22WMR model.  thats one that I would get if I saw it sitting there at a LGS
the LCR 22 is a good practice gun for my LCR 38sp.  the 22LR model would make a good backyard plinker if only we could here
I remember when we had the 22 shortage and couldn't find any 22LR ammo.  but my revolvers can still shoot 22 short.


changemyoil66

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2021, 09:45:02 AM »
1. How many .22 pistols do you own? I own no 22 pistols

2. What pistol did you start/learn to shoot with? VP9 (HK whore)

3. A lot of people own a special .22 pistol that has a special (family?) history to it. Do you have one that is special to you? If so what is the story behind it? N/A, family is anti 2a

4. What, if any, .22 pistols do you intend to buy? And why? None, not a fan of the bullseye side in general.

Akubone1

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2021, 09:51:44 AM »
Anybody shot the Volquartsen Black Mamba 22lr?  I'm looking at that but was wondering if there's a lot of difference in accuracy vs Ruger Mark IV 22/45 lite.  I have the Mark IV and upgraded some of the internals (firing pin, extractor, mainspring, and trigger group) to volquartsen.  Just about 2lb trigger pull and shoots pretty accurate @ 25yds.  I was looking for another 22lr and the Black mamba might be a step up or is it just the same handgun with upgrades?

Inspector

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2021, 10:35:03 AM »
Anybody shot the Volquartsen Black Mamba 22lr?  I'm looking at that but was wondering if there's a lot of difference in accuracy vs Ruger Mark IV 22/45 lite.  I have the Mark IV and upgraded some of the internals (firing pin, extractor, mainspring, and trigger group) to volquartsen.  Just about 2lb trigger pull and shoots pretty accurate @ 25yds.  I was looking for another 22lr and the Black mamba might be a step up or is it just the same handgun with upgrades?
I have shot the Black Mamba. I would say it is on par in accuracy to my High Standard target pistols. That is that it is extremely accurate. More so than I am. I am going to say that it is more accurate than the 22/45 Lite. I can’t say if it is the same gun with upgrades but it is super accurate. I would say for a target gun you really could not do much better. But leave it at home when you are out in the dirt just plinking and bring your Lite.

Like the article stated you have to have the right tool for the job.
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esk808

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2021, 10:44:12 AM »
1. How many .22 pistols do you own?
Only two pistols today: S&W Model 41 Peformance Center  and  S&W Model 41 7" barrel.
Sold: Volquartsen Lightweight pistol with LW carbon-fiber barrel, Volquartsen Scorpion (2 of them), Walther GSP Pistol.  Once I got the M41s, sold all
         other pistols.

2. What pistol did you start/learn to shoot with?
First pistol bought in 1972/73 was a S&W Model 66 Combat Magnum (SS) with 38Spl rounds instead of 357s. The second was a S&W Model 29
6.5" barrel because Dirty Harry had one.

3. A lot of people own a special .22 pistol that has a special (family?) history to it. Do you have one that is special to you? If so what is the story behind it?
None.

4. What, if any, .22 pistols do you intend to buy? And why?
Maybe a Pardini target pistol, or maybe just have my M41s tuned by Tony A., previously at Kokohead.

If I could get back any pistol, it would be the stainless Volquartsen with carbon-fiber barrel.  I never should have sold that one.  The newer Volquartsens are
all aluminum frames.  This one was stainless.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 04:42:55 PM by esk808 »

esk808

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2021, 10:51:15 AM »
Inspector: "I can’t say if it is the same gun with upgrades but it is super accurate."

Hi Inspector, miss seeing your comments. 

I had 3 Volquartsen pistols, and I agree with your assessment that it is basically a
Ruger with upgrades, especially the trigger components.  The barrel, frame lockup,
and the overall detail are upgrades from the standard Ruger......

Suffice to say that I sold all my 22LR pistols once I got the S&W Model 41...... even the Walther GSP.
  The S&W M41 Peformance Center has an Aimpoint T-1 red dot, while the M41 7' barrel has open sights.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 11:33:41 AM by esk808 »

Inspector

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2021, 11:01:30 AM »
Inspector: "I can’t say if it is the same gun with upgrades but it is super accurate."

Hi Inspector, miss seeing your comments. 

I had 3 Volquartsen pistols, and I agree with your assessment that it is basically a
Ruger with upgrades, especially the trigger components.  The barrel, frame lockup,
and the overall detail are upgrades from the standard Ruger......

Suffice to say that I sold all my 22LR pistols once I got the S&W Model 41...... even the Walther GSP.
  The S&W M41 Peformance Center has an Aimpoint H-1 red dot, while the M41 7' barrel has open sights.
Thanks for the kind words.

I have shot several Model 41’s with 2 different length barrels. But not one from the performance center. They are sweet sweet target pistols. And they are reliable as well. What does the PC do to them that makes them better than one right out of the box? Lighter trigger? Different barrel?
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esk808

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2021, 11:10:39 AM »
Thanks for the kind words.

I have shot several Model 41’s with 2 different length barrels. But not one from the performance center. They are sweet sweet target pistols. And they are reliable as well. What does the PC do to them that makes them better than one right out of the box? Lighter trigger? Different barrel?

My honest opinion?  A distinctive "PC  barrel" with a Pic rail, and a PC logo....... :(
These cosmetic changes really don't do much.
I put a pair of Nil-Griffe grips on it, and I think this improves the M41 more than any perceived upgrade to PC.

When comparing the PC to the "standard" M41, they look the same and the fit is the same. While M41 fans bemoan the quality of the new M41s, I don't think that
the quality has dropped greatly from 20 years ago, except, maybe the bluing was better long ago.

Both could use a trigger tune... I've been meaning to have Tony A., former range officer at Kokohead, to tune both, but I'm too deep in the 22BR rabbit hole.... :o

« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 12:43:01 AM by esk808 »

tommynauw

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2021, 11:19:45 AM »
Loving all this. I have no experience with 22 pistols. When you say one is accurate, what does that generally mean in numbers? Are revolvers generally more accurate than autos?

Asking because my formula for what I should start with includes this metric: how long do I figure it will take before I'm more accurate than the pistol?

Also, I have a Ruger Super Redhawk so a Ruger GP100 in 22 would be awesome.

Inspector

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2021, 12:08:44 PM »
Loving all this. I have no experience with 22 pistols. When you say one is accurate, what does that generally mean in numbers? Are revolvers generally more accurate than autos?

Asking because my formula for what I should start with includes this metric: how long do I figure it will take before I'm more accurate than the pistol?

Also, I have a Ruger Super Redhawk so a Ruger GP100 in 22 would be awesome.
I don’t have exact answers for you but I’ll try and give the best answers I have.

If my memory is correct, High Standard Military Target Pistols (which were some of the best in their day) would not let a pistol out of the shop that didn’t shoot minimum 1.0”, 1.5” or 2” groups (can’t remember which one) at 50 yards. I think it was 2” but my memory is not good today. But just realize we are talking world class target pistols used in competition. S&W makes the Model 41 which is in the same class. Pardini  also makes competition grade .22 target pistols. They are all semi autos. I don’t know what their standards for accuracy are. But today the .22 ammo is so much better in quality that a good ammo matched to a good target pistol will shoot better than any human possibly could. Most competitions are one handed and I think at 25 and 50 yards if my memory is correct. If you can shoot 2” groups one handed at 50 yards then I think you can shoot better than the pistol.

Generally speaking I don’t think a semi auto is any more accurate than a revolver. But if we are talking competition guns then semis take the prize. I have both.

If you really want to see what the best .22 shooters look like, go to the range on Sunday mornings. The left side of the range will have mostly the guys that can shoot one handed at 50 yards. Ask them how long it took them to get that good. If they are having a competition that day its probably best not to bother them until after it is over. Maybe someone here has more/better info?

I have been shooting for 50+ years and I think I am capable of shooting pretty well with my target pistols but 2 handed, not one.

The thing is, the article espouses having the right gun for the job at hand. If you are generally just plinking any .22 pistol will do. So bring a SA or a DA revolver or a semi auto. No need for target quality pistols. Missing is part of the fun of plinking. Bring the gun you operate the easiest. Or the one that fits your hand the best. So a GP100 in .22 is perfect for most plinking and general target practice. Just note the GP100 is a medium frame revolver and it will be quite heavy for a .22. But so are most competition guns.

I happen to prefer the Ruger .22 MK IV pistols. Either the slant grip old style with all sorts of barrel lengths and diameters in blue or stainless or the plastic frame 22/45 model which simulates the same grip as the 1911 with almost the same choice of barrel types. Then there is the 22/45 “Lite” version with a pencil barrel and an aluminum shroud. The bull barrel and target versions will give you the most accuracy but will also require you to build up your muscle memory to get good with them. These guns will probably outshoot most casual shooters. The smaller barrel types will give up a small amount of accuracy for lighter weight and ease of shooting and carrying. Plus the balance will be less at the muzzle. Which for new shooters might be easier to handle. My favorite overall of these is the stainless slant grip with the fluted barrel. See Stang’s photo of his Hunter model. Some like to have a .22 pistol that is similar in size and feel with their favorite self defense firearm. That way they can practice with the .22 cheaply and still retain the feel of their full power firearm.

There is a dizzying array of .22’s on the market.
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Inspector

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2021, 12:13:10 PM »
My honest opinion?  A distinctive "PC  barrel" with a Pic rail, and a PC logo....... :(
I put a pair of Nil-Griffe grips on it, and I think this improves the M41 more than any perceived upgrade to PC.

When comparing the PC to the "standard" M41, they look the same and the fit is the same. While M41 fans bemoan the quality of the new M41s, I don't think that
the quality has dropped greatly from 20 years ago, except, maybe the bluing was better long ago.

Both could use a trigger tune... I've been meaning to have Tony A., former range officer at Kokohead, to tune both, but I'm too deep in the 22BR rabbit hole.... :o

Nice gun BTW!!!

I have a Model 627 PC and while it has a slab sided barrel in 5” length, the trigger still leaves a little to be desired. My gunsmith is going to work on it for me. That gun is super accurate otherwise.

Good luck with 22BR. It’s funny, .22 ammo is so much cheaper than 6mmBR or whatever. But you can still drop 10’s or thousands into everything else. 😂
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powder monkey

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2021, 01:01:10 PM »
For 1911's dont forget Marvel, Nelson or Nighthawk 22lr conversion.
Also Kart
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 04:56:19 PM by powder monkey »

powder monkey

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2021, 01:17:05 PM »
S&W Used to run a separate line to produce 41s. Thinking somewhere in the late 90s mid
2000s line was shut down and 41 product line and moved under PC.

esk808

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2021, 01:42:57 PM »
.22 ammo is so much cheaper than 6mmBR or whatever. But you can still drop 10’s or thousands into everything else. 😂

22 ammo prices are getting there to centerfire prices.....  See Lapua Midas+, RWS R50, and others pre-COVID and current prices.   :(
 

aieahound

Re: THE .22 PISTOL A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2021, 02:38:56 PM »
THE .22 PISTOL

A MUST-HAVE FOR THE SERIOUS HANDGUNNER

https://gunsmagazine.com/discover/the-22-pistol/

Great article which I fully agree with. So share with me some personal information:

1. How many .22 pistols do you own?    2. A S&W MP-22 and a Colt Huntsman.

2. What pistol did you start/learn to shoot with?    .40  cal XDM. That’s why I’m not a good pistol shooter.  :D Actually learned on pellet guns and air soft. And traded the .40 for a 9mm.

3. A lot of people own a special .22 pistol that has a special (family?) history to it. Do you have one that is special to you? If so what is the story behind it?

The Colt Huntsman. My friend sold to me for $1. Said extractor was bad. I ran mini mags at range and she ran flawless (knock wood). He gave me his left over half box of 10 year old Winchester white box.
He won’t take it back.

4. What, if any, .22 pistols do you intend to buy? And why?
None. Cause I already got two. And I don’t enjoy 25 yard pistol shooting as much as I enjoy 50/100 yard rifle shooting.
And no bucks lying around. College sucks. 
Would love to get a Mark IV though.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 02:45:56 PM by aieahound »