How much land do you need to be self sufficient? (Read 6828 times)

Jaydawg

How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« on: June 02, 2013, 10:25:42 AM »
2 acres.  I wonder how much rice paddy is needed to feed a family of 4.

Jl808

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2013, 02:55:25 PM »
Thanks for the info, jaydawg. Was looking for this info. 
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FATMANWA

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2013, 03:00:21 PM »
This actually surprises me, figured it would be more. Thanks for the info, now I know my dream of 5 acres of land will be enough to be sufficient.

clshade

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2013, 03:02:14 PM »
Keep in mind that corn and wheat are probably not the best ways to do this here in Hawaii. And that we have a full year growing season.

Not sure what the best way is, but those are some long term, work intensive crops that don't do nearly as well here as sweet potato and Kalo.

So a plan better tailored to HI would probably require less than 2 acres... but your diet would look very little like it does when you feed yourself from the store. (It would be WAY better for you, though.)

crazy cat

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2013, 04:18:49 PM »
They're forgetting the land needed to grow food for the pigs, goats, and chickens.  Two acres will do for a vegetarian diet; meat eaters will need 10 or more.....

TeamMidori

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2013, 04:22:57 PM »
1/10 acre urban farm




Q

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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2013, 05:26:24 PM »
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Q

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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2013, 05:32:10 PM »
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clshade

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2013, 05:41:57 PM »
We do dry land taro and pretty much ignore it other than to water it when it doesn't rain enough. Not the same as wet land taro but WAY easier.

I like the way you think, Q. Trying to do the same here. Easy = good. Especially when one realizes the water might not come out of the tap some day.

Look into Agroforestry, too. I know, sounds like agressive tree cutting, but really its about turning square footage into cubic footage for food production. Including food producing trees and shrubs. MUCH less work than perennials in the long run.

The other thing that a lot  of folks new to the idea of living off a piece of land often don't think of is planting things that are for nitrogen fixing and cutting to use for mulch and soil amendments. Composting, too, is more an art than most people think. Mulch and compost is what makes it possible to continue extracting food from the same land without depleting it.

Gobsmacks of info here: http://hawaiihomegrown.net/

and here: http://www.agroforestry.net/

edit: Animal protein is another matter. It ~really~ pays to think creating a food system that works within your means instead of trying to replace the chicken, beef and pork that we're used to eating from the store. Eggs are a good source of protein. Rabbits are, too, and they breed like... well, like rabbits. Beef is a product of scale that is harder to make work without either a) large communities that can share both the burden and the meat or b) freezers and a LOT of land that could otherwise be used to feed yourself more sustainably. Laying chickens are also a little trickier than just letting them run around - if you want them to lay lots of eggs they need a higher amount of protein and calcium than they can easily get foraging. That means either more chickens (to account for each one laying fewer eggs) or supplementing their feed with extra food (which is generally imported.) Its all doable... just takes a LOT of trial and error. Don't retire to the farm until you KNOW your scheme is working.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 05:49:24 PM by clshade »

bass monkey

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2013, 06:27:44 PM »
I agree. Also would like to add, grow stuff that your family is used to eating or willing to eat. I had pumpkins going, and was getting a good harvest, but no one was really interested in eating them. Not that they tasted junk, just not much to eat with pumpkin. Ended up making pumpkin seeds, which everyone loved instead, and composted and fed the rest to the chickens.  Wasn't really worth my time after that. Now I got tomatoes, bell peppers and eggplant. Much more likely to be eaten by us.

FATMANWA

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2013, 06:28:28 PM »
Keep in mind that corn and wheat are probably not the best ways to do this here in Hawaii. And that we have a full year growing season.

Not sure what the best way is, but those are some long term, work intensive crops that don't do nearly as well here as sweet potato and Kalo.

So a plan better tailored to HI would probably require less than 2 acres... but your diet would look very little like it does when you feed yourself from the store. (It would be WAY better for you, though.)

Which is why I want that land back in home state of Washington, which by chance is one of the most productive wheat, corn, potato, apples and ton of other produce in the nation. I would also supplement my meat diet by hunting and trying to forage other stuff, lots of berry plants in the mountains.

Q

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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2013, 07:42:45 PM »
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Jaydawg

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2013, 08:19:08 PM »
For chickens, you can feed them fruit scraps and if they free range, they can supplement their diet.  Before garbage disposals and weekly trash pick up, hogs did those chores of consuming old fruits and scraps.  Animal waste gets composted and put back into the fields.  So goes the circle.  At least from what I learned....I am far from putting it into practice. 

 

Q

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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2013, 10:13:11 PM »
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crazy cat

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2013, 10:16:41 PM »
Not necessarily true.

To raise quail, you just need 1sqft per bird. 10-20sqft isnt much, specially if you consider that 1 female quail will lay 300+ eggs a year, and that quail mature within 6 weeks of hatching. One could also stack the containers/cages, thus increasing the amount of birds in one area. The major benefit of quail is that they require less food and time to raise vs. raising chickens, being that quails usually eat 1/10th the amount of food than chickens, and only require 6 weeks to mature vs. 6 months.

I have a raised container garden that currently has 30 plants within a 30sqft planter. It provides extreme quality control and adjustment options, as well as a diverse variety of vegetables that provide all the nutrition I would need to survive. Depending on what crops you choose to grow, 20-30 plants would be more than enough to feed a family.

So, with less than 100sqft, one can have a self-sustainable garden/farm that can take care of family, providing that you select the correct crops and livestock to raise. Imagine the possibilities with more space. You might be missing out on some things, like dairy and a massive variety of vegetables and meats; but essentially,, one does not NEED to have an extremely diversified diet, provided that the crops one already has on  hand provide sufficient nutrients to sustain you and your family. It becomes more of a complacency issue when you eat the same things all the time. But in a survival situation, as long as you and your family are fed and healthy, who cares about the kid who wants candy or cereal and milk.

Also, by choosing the correct crops, the produce can be traded for what you or your family needs, should such a need arise.

The quail just sit in their cage and gain weight by eating air?  Or are you buying food for them that's grown somewhere else?

9,200cal/day out of 100sq ft?  LOL 

In the real world,  sweet potatoes have 390 calories per pound, and really intensive growing in very fertile soil may produce as much as half a  pound per square foot.  They take six months to grow, and you do need to rotate, so one crop a year out of any piece of land is about all you can expect.

For a family of four (as per the original article):  9200 calories divided by 390 = just under 24lbs/day.  Multiply that by 365 days and you get 8760lbs or 17520 sq ft, which is almost half an acre.  Corn is way less space efficient, and takes a bunch more fertilizer.  Good luck getting wheat to mature anywhere in Hawaii.

Growing all your own fruits and vegetables isn't that hard, but trying to grow all the calories that you eat...takes lots of time (and land).  Growing all the food your farm animals need just adds another layer of complexity. 

Food is cheap because it's grown by machines in large fields that take advantage of economies of scale.  Being a peasant in no fun; that's why everybody who can moves to the city and gets a job, even if it only pays $2/day.

Yes, Hawaii needs to be more self reliant, but a return to subsistence agriculture isn't the solution.

clshade

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2013, 12:39:38 AM »

Food is cheap because it's grown by machines in large fields that take advantage of economies of scale.  Being a peasant in no fun; that's why everybody who can moves to the city and gets a job, even if it only pays $2/day.

Yes, Hawaii needs to be more self reliant, but a return to subsistence agriculture isn't the solution.

Truth.

Subsistence agriculture will not sustain anything like our current population. Even here. The smallest viable survival unit for any long term projection is a community, not an individual or a family.

nf9648

Re: How much land do you need to be self sufficient?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2013, 01:40:40 PM »
Just bought 4 more chicks (2 rhode island reds and 2 buff orpingtons) to add to my 7 chicken flock, and Ive got 2 ducks so far, all taking up an area in the yard less than the size of my 2 car garage.  They eat veggie scraps and leftovers, along with bugs and stuff they find by the treeline.  Im waiting on a deal for a highland calf and 4-6 scottish blackface sheep; my 3 acre pasture is over waist height and needs something to eat it back down.  Biggest thing out here is electricity expense, I spent on average of $400/mo on heating last winter (house is all electric) and it was mild compared to most winters up here.  Still waiting on the apple trees and the berries, didn't plant the garden this year either.

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Q

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« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2013, 07:36:56 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 07:50:49 PM by Q »