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deadly force bill. (Read 12084 times)

London808

deadly force bill.
« on: October 05, 2019, 10:06:43 PM »
Im considering putting forward a bill to change Hawaii's use of deadly force law. What do you guys think?

§703-304 Use of force in self-protection.
(1) Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 703-308, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by the other person on the present occasion.

(2) The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if the actor believes that deadly force is necessary to
(A)protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy.
(B)deadly force is necessary to stop unlawful forced entry to the actor's home, vehicle, place of sojourn, place of business or employment.
(c)deadly force is necessary to stop a crime against the actor's property during the hours of darkness. Hours of darkness are defined as one half-hour after sunset and one-half hour before sunrise.
Forced entry to, or the brandishing of a weapon on the actor's property shall in itself be evidence of intent to cause serious bodily harm or death to the actor.
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"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Direjackalope

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2019, 10:21:27 PM »
Sounds great.  I'll happily send my usual barrage of emails, hand written letters, testimonies, and strongly worded phone calls in support.
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drck1000

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2019, 10:42:08 PM »
Hours of darkness?
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bingbong

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2019, 10:09:10 AM »
Federal law allows the use of deadly force in forcible felonies. Hawaii state laws restricts the use of deadly force in forcible felonies except for kidnapping and rape. It would be better to remove these restrictions rather than creating more laws. If these restrictions are removed the only law you would need is a stand your ground law, no duty to retreat.
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oldfart

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2019, 10:21:17 AM »
Quote from: drck1000 on October 05, 2019, 10:42:08 PM
Hours of darkness?
....
Hmmmm, I don't think that is a good idea.
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What, Me Worry?

groveler

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2019, 12:00:46 PM »
"deadly force is necessary to stop a crime against the actor's property during the hours of darkness"

WA state says it better, Paraphrased here,
deadly force can be used only, by private citizens when the crime against their property valued at $500 or more
is in progress.  eg you can't shoot some one stealing a case of beer or hunt someone down and kill them
two weeks after they stole your car.
Many  years ago in Seattle a thief did a "smash and grab" of electronics worth way more than
$500, the store owner shot and killed the thief as the thief ran down the street.
The DA did not press charges, the police did not confiscate any weapons,  or arrest the store owner.
Also you can't sue people for legally protecting themselves or their property,  as is the case in many
states.

Just a suggestion of some changes.



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Bota-CS1

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2019, 06:17:52 PM »
I would agree with OF with striking the part about hours of darkness, and add the property provision as Groveler summarized.  If you haven’t thought of a name for the bill yet I’d nominate Aama Place.
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No one is coming, it’s up to us.

Legislation should never be about depriving law abiding citizens of something, but rather taking those things away from criminals.

changemyoil66

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2019, 10:37:10 PM »
What ever draft, need non 2a people to support. SSH would be a good source cause people are fed up with criminals commiting crimes going unpunished or slap on the wrist.

Reading how gun comments changed within the year is a good sign that more people support gun ownership now than a year ago. The people are fed up. Or big brl stopped editing comments...#tinfoil


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eyeeatingfish

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2019, 10:42:12 PM »
So deadly force if someone tries to break into my car? That won't fly.
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groveler

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2019, 08:04:39 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on October 06, 2019, 10:42:12 PM
So deadly force if someone tries to break into my car? That won't fly.
If they did $500 or more damage it would fly in WA state.  Also in most the rest of the country.
You' better know what you are doing in any event.  I'm pretty sure if you shouted at the perp
and he was un-armed,  he would stop and run, in which case you could not shoot it, however
if he continued to cause damage and attempt to steal the vehicle.  Best aim at center mass,
shoot until he stops.
Here in Hawaii,  I guess you had better have good insurance.  As in public you have no rights
to defense of life or property,  or to defend others being beaten, raped, or robbed.
Dial 911 and run.  Let the crime go on till the cops arrive to document it.
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changemyoil66

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2019, 12:54:50 PM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on October 06, 2019, 10:42:12 PM
So deadly force if someone tries to break into my car? That won't fly.

A woman stuck in traffic and someone is bashing at her window with a tool.  But then again, can't have CCW or OC anyways so does it really matter?  She would have to open her gun case, that's if she was going to the range, gunstore, or like desitnation.  Then load her gun and fire.  By then, I'm sure her window would already be broken.
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ren

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2019, 02:08:12 PM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on October 06, 2019, 10:42:12 PM
So deadly force if someone tries to break into my car? That won't fly.

https://nypost.com/2015/05/18/dad-beaten-by-biker-gang-details-brutal-attack-in-testimony/

I recall taking a couple of hits and my window broke,” Lien said. “I covered my head and looked down to protect myself. I remember being pulled out of the vehicle and that’s it.”

Prosecutors showed video of Sims rushing to the passenger side door and trying to pull Rosalyn out allegedly yelling, “Bitch you’re going to get it, too!”

After several bystanders urged Sims to leave the frightened woman alone, he circled to the other side where half a dozen bikers were punching, kicking and smashing Lien with a helmet.

Sims can be seen stomping the father as he lies motionless in a pool of blood.

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/21/motorcycle-road-rage-trial/
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 02:13:43 PM by ren »
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Deeds Not Words

zippz

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2019, 02:31:03 PM »
Think eef meant breaking into an unoccupied car.
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bass monkey

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2019, 02:37:09 PM »
Not to mention the case a few months back of the college girl that got car jacked in Hawaii Kai and then raped
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changemyoil66

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2019, 06:07:40 PM »
Quote from: zippz on October 07, 2019, 02:31:03 PM
Think eef meant breaking into an unoccupied car.
Maybe then it would teach people not to break into cars. My law class had a case study from TX. Guy saw people breking into his car parked down the street. Stood on his portch with his rifle and picked them off 1 by 1. I dont remember how many he killed, buy i think was more than 1. No jail time, no detention because he was defending his property. Cops asked him 1 question, "is this your property".

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RSN172

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2019, 07:35:31 PM »
You gotta love Texas.
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Happily living in Puna

eyeeatingfish

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2019, 09:14:00 PM »
Quote from: groveler on October 07, 2019, 08:04:39 AM
Here in Hawaii,  I guess you had better have good insurance.  As in public you have no rights
to defense of life or property,  or to defend others being beaten, raped, or robbed.
Dial 911 and run.  Let the crime go on till the cops arrive to document it.

This is not true, you do have the right to defend yourself, someone else, and your property even while in public. The only catch is that you must attempt retreat first if retreat can be safely done.
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eyeeatingfish

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2019, 09:16:58 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on October 07, 2019, 06:07:40 PM
Maybe then it would teach people not to break into cars. My law class had a case study from TX. Guy saw people breking into his car parked down the street. Stood on his portch with his rifle and picked them off 1 by 1. I dont remember how many he killed, buy i think was more than 1. No jail time, no detention because he was defending his property. Cops asked him 1 question, "is this your property".

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Still sketchy and wouldn't fly. I could imagine a couple of scenarios where this could be a mistaken shooting.

I figured the original poster might have meant occupied vehicles but the language he used didn't specify so I took the language as it was written.
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changemyoil66

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2019, 09:18:20 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on October 07, 2019, 09:16:58 PM
Still sketchy and wouldn't fly. I could imagine a couple of scenarios where this could be a mistaken shooting.

I figured the original poster might have meant occupied vehicles but the language he used didn't specify so I took the language as it was written.

It flew in TX.  But you are right there are many scenarios where mistakes could have happened (what if's).  But when someone sees 3 people breaking into his car, the chances of a mistake are reduced.
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6716J

Re: deadly force bill.
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2019, 01:43:20 PM »
I'm up to support it

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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.
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