AMP Annealer is one of the best investments I’ve made for reloading.

After you measure with ball micrometer, do you neck turn? Or mostly noting data?  Being able to measure I think is a good baseline. Neck turning opens a whole bigger can, at least for me.

I’ve played with neck turning, but don’t believe the results match the effort. Like noted in my post above, the case walls are still left uneven and thick. This causes inconsistent case volume and pressure.

At shorter ranges like 100 or 200 yards, velocity difference won’t make much of a difference, but at longer ranges you’d want the best ES/SD numbers as you can get.

Easier to measure and cull bad cases.

I’ve done many experiments with case neck thickness variations and this is what I’ve found.

I’ve sorted brass within .004-.005” thickness to brass, outside to way outside that variation. This netted a noticeable reduction in uncalled fliers, when all other factors remained consistent.

Things I’ve noted.

Typically, high variance in case neck thickness correlates to variation in case body thickness as well. This is most noticeable in long cases, such as .30-06. Of course, one cannot actually measure below the neck. I conclude this because after firing, the entire case is bent like a banana. I’ve measured the neck in the shorter arc area, and noted this is the thickest part of the entire case. These noticeable “banana” cases are culled immediately.

My theory is that the thicker and uneven neck area does not release the bullet consistently on firing, thus causes fliers. Also the thicker and uneven brass thickness would cause in consistent volume inside the case, causing inconsistent pressure, thus higher ES/SD numbers.

Lapua brass typically has much less variation in thickness.

I’ve done Winchester brass, had to cull almost half of the cases. This brass is much cheaper, and after the cull, the rounds produced very good consistency and accuracy comparable to Lapua cases. Winchester brass usually doesn’t last as long as Lapua cases though.  However, even after the cull, one could get much more cases per dollar.

I also have always used the Lee collet neck sizer, after using a Redding body die. Reason being, the neck is sized exactly the same size as the mandrel (on the INSIDE).  My conclusion is, this two step sizing and the sorting of low variance neck thickness produces consistent neck tension and bullet release.

Cool.  Sounds like you put a lot of effort into it.

Couple of follow-up questions:
1) For measuring the neck thickness, did you measure at a specific point below say the case mouth?  Or otherwise account for variation along the length of the neck? 
2) For the Redding body die, were you using the expander ball?  Or did you find or fashion a mandrel with the die?  Or expander mandrel as a separate step?

The questions around #1, and different ways folks were doing it (as well as having heated arguments) on that made me wary of venturing down that path.  I know many who do it, but seems like many have their own way of measuring, sorting, etc for consistency. 

Cool.  Sounds like you put a lot of effort into it.

Couple of follow-up questions:
1) For measuring the neck thickness, did you measure at a specific point below say the case mouth?  Or otherwise account for variation along the length of the neck? 
2) For the Redding body die, were you using the expander ball?  Or did you find or fashion a mandrel with the die?  Or expander mandrel as a separate step?

The questions around #1, and different ways folks were doing it (as well as having heated arguments) on that made me wary of venturing down that path.  I know many who do it, but seems like many have their own way of measuring, sorting, etc for consistency.

I use an expander mandrel as a separate step. I don’t use the expander ball. So after I size with Redding F/L type s die with my proper bushing without expander ball. Then I run the cases through the expander mandrel. All steps through the Forster press. Pretty fast once all your dies is set initially. I do how ever dip just a little of the neck in reddings neck dry lube before I size. It should also be enough on the expanding work too.

I’ve done many experiments with case neck thickness variations and this is what I’ve found.

I’ve sorted brass within .004-.005” thickness to brass, outside to way outside that variation. This netted a noticeable reduction in uncalled fliers, when all other factors remained consistent.

Things I’ve noted.

Typically, high variance in case neck thickness correlates to variation in case body thickness as well. This is most noticeable in long cases, such as .30-06. Of course, one cannot actually measure below the neck. I conclude this because after firing, the entire case is bent like a banana. I’ve measured the neck in the shorter arc area, and noted this is the thickest part of the entire case. These noticeable “banana” cases are culled immediately.

My theory is that the thicker and uneven neck area does not release the bullet consistently on firing, thus causes fliers. Also the thicker and uneven brass thickness would cause in consistent volume inside the case, causing inconsistent pressure, thus higher ES/SD numbers.

Lapua brass typically has much less variation in thickness.

I’ve done Winchester brass, had to cull almost half of the cases. This brass is much cheaper, and after the cull, the rounds produced very good consistency and accuracy comparable to Lapua cases. Winchester brass usually doesn’t last as long as Lapua cases though.  However, even after the cull, one could get much more cases per dollar.

I also have always used the Lee collet neck sizer, after using a Redding body die. Reason being, the neck is sized exactly the same size as the mandrel (on the INSIDE).  My conclusion is, this two step sizing and the sorting of low variance neck thickness produces consistent neck tension and bullet release.

Interesting on the Lee collet dies. I think I’m gonna try a .308 set.

I use an expander mandrel as a separate step. I don’t use the expander ball. So after I size with Redding F/L type s die with my proper bushing without expander ball. Then I run the cases through the expander mandrel. All steps through the Forster press. Pretty fast once all your dies is set initially. I do how ever dip just a little of the neck in reddings neck dry lube before I size. It should also be enough on the expanding work too.

I currently do expander as a separate step too. I’ll be transitioning from the PMA expander mandrel (fixed at -0.0015) to 21st Century mandrels that I bought many months ago but never got around to using before the shut down.

The SAC dies can combine the expander mandrel with the sizing, but another aspect that I haven’t gotten around to trying. The SAC expander mandrels were out of stock for a while. They came back in stock shortly before the shutdown, so I never got to use them either.  Once I get that dialed in, that would remove a step. But like you said, with the Co-Ax, super easy to go between steps.

Dry lube is a whole other topic, and another that I was experimenting with as well.

I currently do expander as a separate step too. I’ll be transitioning from the PMA expander mandrel (fixed at -0.0015) to 21st Century mandrels that I bought many months ago but never got around to using before the shut down.

The SAC dies can combine the expander mandrel with the sizing, but another aspect that I haven’t gotten around to trying. The SAC expander mandrels were out of stock for a while. They came back in stock shortly before the shutdown, so I never got to use them either.  Once I get that dialed in, that would remove a step. But like you said, with the Co-Ax, super easy to go between steps.

Dry lube is a whole other topic, and another that I was experimenting with as well.

loob...

I’ve played with neck turning, but don’t believe the results match the effort. Like noted in my post above, the case walls are still left uneven and thick. This causes inconsistent case volume and pressure.

At shorter ranges like 100 or 200 yards, velocity difference won’t make much of a difference, but at longer ranges you’d want the best ES/SD numbers as you can get.

Easier to measure and cull bad cases.

Ya. I never got into neck turning. The “gurus” I’m following and helping me now only neck turn for F-Class and Benchrest. A couple tried it for their PRS rifles, but the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze. Sounds like similar for you.

Maybe I’ll get to shooting paper at 600-800 yards, but currently only on steel. I was getting “ok” results at 1000-1100ish on steel with .308, but chasing better.

Cool.  Sounds like you put a lot of effort into it.

Couple of follow-up questions:
1) For measuring the neck thickness, did you measure at a specific point below say the case mouth?  Or otherwise account for variation along the length of the neck? 
2) For the Redding body die, were you using the expander ball?  Or did you find or fashion a mandrel with the die?  Or expander mandrel as a separate step?

The questions around #1, and different ways folks were doing it (as well as having heated arguments) on that made me wary of venturing down that path.  I know many who do it, but seems like many have their own way of measuring, sorting, etc for consistency. 

1) just about halfway down at least in 4 quadrants. Want to know the thick and thin parts.  Usually I’ve seen they are either pretty much good or way out of whack.   Variations from top to bottom of the neck are negligible in the “good” cases.


2) just the body die. They do not do anything at all to the neck of the case. Just bumping the shoulder back .002-.003”


I’ve tried the ones with the bushings and such. Tried expander ball. Tried running mandrel. Etc. all have given to much mixed results for my liking. Doesn’t make sense to me to attempt to make the case nice and straight, bump the shoulder, then turn around and push or pull an object through the neck possibly messing up the bump or runout.


That the beauty of the collet neck die.  The die squeezes around the outside of the neck and presses it to the mandrel. No force is required to pull the mandrel back out. Seating force is extremely uniform since the inside of the case is formed to the exact size of the mandrel all the way around on the inside.


After starting to use this sizing method and case sorting, I gave up on testing runout on the complete rounds, as all of them come out nearly perfect. Didn’t need to check anymore.

1) just about halfway down at least in 4 quadrants. Want to know the thick and thin parts.  Usually I’ve seen they are either pretty much good or way out of whack.   Variations from top to bottom of the neck are negligible in the “good” cases.


2) just the body die. They do not do anything at all to the neck of the case. Just bumping the shoulder back .002-.003”


I’ve tried the ones with the bushings and such. Tried expander ball. Tried running mandrel. Etc. all have given to much mixed results for my liking. Doesn’t make sense to me to attempt to make the case nice and straight, bump the shoulder, then turn around and push or pull an object through the neck possibly messing up the bump or runout.


That the beauty of the collet neck die.  The die squeezes around the outside of the neck and presses it to the mandrel. No force is required to pull the mandrel back out. Seating force is extremely uniform since the inside of the case is formed to the exact size of the mandrel all the way around on the inside.


After starting to use this sizing method and case sorting, I gave up on testing runout on the complete rounds, as all of them come out nearly perfect. Didn’t need to check anymore.

Ahh, thanks

Seems like the SAC dies are a similar route to similar outcomes. They use a collet to hold either a decapping pin or mandrel. I haven’t tested in a while but runout was very good, results wise. I don’t own the tool to measure but have tested on a buddy’s. Lots of videos of replicating results of low to little runout.  Primal Rights being one of the more critical of stuff, at least that I know of.

Maybe I’ll get to different steps like the AMP press in the future. Stuff like better powder thrower and scales are on the list first.

@drck1000
We go split one and experiment… 
https://www.fclassproducts.com/autodod

@drck1000
We go split one and experiment… 
https://www.fclassproducts.com/autodod

I got $5 on it 

A couple of guys that I follow use that for F-Class, but they are in Texas and WaState.  And $2500 

Next on my list is upgraded scale and powder thrower.  I think the setup is in the $1k range, so not that far off from the AutoDOD haha

I got $5 on it 

A couple of guys that I follow use that for F-Class, but they are in Texas and WaState.  And $2500 

Next on my list is upgraded scale and powder thrower.  I think the setup is in the $1k range, so not that far off from the AutoDOD haha

Don’t bother with any of those 1000$ powder throwers.. This is the one!
https://www.prometheustoolcorp.com/

Don’t bother with any of those 1000$ powder throwers.. This is the one!
https://www.prometheustoolcorp.com/

Yeah, don’t tempt me. I have thought about it. Albeit short/fleeting thoughts.

I have 2 V3 auto throws with A&D scales. But in all honesty, I didn’t and don’t see any accuracy or SD difference when I use to run 3 CM lites. The only thing I dislike about my CM’s was that each of em had the screen of death problem. Though, RCBS was quick to send me a replacement. I think the replacement had the fix. But sold all 3 and went on the V3 road. The only thing I dislike about the A&D scales is it’s sensitive to all kind, lighting, little vibrations, electrical interference, even your regular breathing on the scale and you don’t even know it.. 😂
Ok, back on the topic.. sorry