Protecting property... (Read 1169 times)

Itsshowtime808

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Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2021, 06:37:50 PM »
CMO66,
I demand you give me all your money, guns and ammo.

 :rofl: :rofl:
.45acp, because shooting twice is just silly!! 🤣😂🤣

Itsshowtime808

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Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2021, 06:46:14 PM »
Thanks guys,

Like I always tell my friends, “Last Resort”, after owning a firearm, I really do understand and believe in the saying “with great power comes great responsibility”.  Especially after having to go through obstacles in getting a letter to acquire.

I admit that Hawaii is pretty chill compared to the mainland and with crappy 2a laws, I still opt to stay here because of aloha spirit and how cool most people are.

No crazy protest/riots, pretty low covid cases, great weather, and for myself I got 90% or my family and friends here.

I do hate this state in the sense or cost of living and in the job market, it’s not what you know, but who you know, which works out both positive and negative for myself.

Been watching a lot of ASP (active self protection) on youtube and what John says on his channel always try to resort to deescalating and your cool.

Will definitely read the HRS a couple more times and try to put footnotes on “possible translations”  :rofl: :rofl:

Sorry for the rambling but I digress...

Appreciate you all and am glad to have a resource like this on 2ahawaii
 :shaka: :shaka:
« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 07:16:34 PM by Itsshowtime808 »
.45acp, because shooting twice is just silly!! 🤣😂🤣

eyeeatingfish

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2021, 09:43:50 PM »
Theres a part that mentions "upon demand". Right of claim is abother section

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol14_ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm

The only place I see the word demand has to do when a thief demands you not do something.
The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:


I have wondered how these use of force laws interact with citizen arrest laws. One the one hand you have to try and avoid using force by retreating if safe, but on the other hand if you are trying to citizens arrest someone, force may be necessary.

Itsshowtime808

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Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2021, 07:29:59 PM »
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol14_ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm

The only place I see the word demand has to do when a thief demands you not do something.
The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:


I have wondered how these use of force laws interact with citizen arrest laws. One the one hand you have to try and avoid using force by retreating if safe, but on the other hand if you are trying to citizens arrest someone, force may be necessary.

It’s probably rhetorical but that’s why Hawai’i is pretty much pro-criminal in my eyes :rofl:

The flee or retreat clause was probably written by a grown version of a kid who was picked on in high school.

I would find it hard to do citizens arrest without using force unless things line up like, you have the perp cornered with your car pretty much pinning the perp to a wall without actually hurting or killing..

Situations like this probably only happen in the movies

.45acp, because shooting twice is just silly!! 🤣😂🤣

RSN172

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2021, 10:39:26 PM »
In Hawaii, if you had a criminal pinned against the wall with your vehicle,  not injuring him but he couldn't escape, you will probably get charged with kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon.   After all, you did hold him against his will and you could have easily killed him.
Criminals have rights. You, not so much.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2021, 01:05:18 PM »
Any attempt at doing the job the police say they are supposed to be doing will result in extreme consequences.

If everyone discovered they can do a better job as their own first responders, since they are already "on the scene," the myth of "Protect and Serve" would no longer be marketable.
Surely Not Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

Itsshowtime808

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Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2021, 01:29:38 PM »
In Hawaii, if you had a criminal pinned against the wall with your vehicle,  not injuring him but he couldn't escape, you will probably get charged with kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon.   After all, you did hold him against his will and you could have easily killed him.
Criminals have rights. You, not so much.

My disclaimer will be: “he threatened to come back and finish the job”.  So I wanted him caught and put away
.45acp, because shooting twice is just silly!! 🤣😂🤣

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2021, 01:45:28 PM »
CMO66,
I demand you give me all your money, guns and ammo.

I must comply, if I owned any firearms, reloading supplies, ammo, preps, coms, body armor, NODs, and money.

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2021, 01:49:11 PM »
Thanks guys,

Like I always tell my friends, “Last Resort”, after owning a firearm, I really do understand and believe in the saying “with great power comes great responsibility”.  Especially after having to go through obstacles in getting a letter to acquire.

I admit that Hawaii is pretty chill compared to the mainland and with crappy 2a laws, I still opt to stay here because of aloha spirit and how cool most people are.

No crazy protest/riots, pretty low covid cases, great weather, and for myself I got 90% or my family and friends here.

I do hate this state in the sense or cost of living and in the job market, it’s not what you know, but who you know, which works out both positive and negative for myself.

Been watching a lot of ASP (active self protection) on youtube and what John says on his channel always try to resort to deescalating and your cool.

Will definitely read the HRS a couple more times and try to put footnotes on “possible translations”  :rofl: :rofl:

Sorry for the rambling but I digress...

Appreciate you all and am glad to have a resource like this on 2ahawaii
 :shaka: :shaka:

No one in Kenosha, WI was pretty chill until recently. So the point is there are cities that burn all the time, but there are also cities that "never thought it would happen to them".

John is correct.  I rather be wrong and go home, than stay and try to prove I'm right and end up in jail, in court, or harmed.  So the saying "an armed society is a polite society" makes sense.

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2021, 01:55:47 PM »
It’s probably rhetorical but that’s why Hawai’i is pretty much pro-criminal in my eyes :rofl:

The flee or retreat clause was probably written by a grown version of a kid who was picked on in high school.

I would find it hard to do citizens arrest without using force unless things line up like, you have the perp cornered with your car pretty much pinning the perp to a wall without actually hurting or killing..

Situations like this probably only happen in the movies

Sometimes people have health issues that prevent them from fleeing to safety (sore knee, sore back, fat, etc...)....just saying.

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2021, 02:08:04 PM »
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol14_ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm

The only place I see the word demand has to do when a thief demands you not do something.
The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:


I have wondered how these use of force laws interact with citizen arrest laws. One the one hand you have to try and avoid using force by retreating if safe, but on the other hand if you are trying to citizens arrest someone, force may be necessary.

How I understand it is that you can use reasonable force to protect your property, but not deadly. So you don't have to surrender the item upon demand if you're using reasonable force. 

eyeeatingfish

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2021, 08:23:11 PM »
How I understand it is that you can use reasonable force to protect your property, but not deadly. So you don't have to surrender the item upon demand if you're using reasonable force.

That might be right. So if he is stealing your TV and the only way you have to stop him is shooting him in the face it isn't allowed, you have to "surrender" the item. But if you could tackle him then you are covered.

Security at stores aren't LEOs but they can use force to detain suspects so clearly there is some leeway for non LEOs to use force in apprehending criminals.

stangzilla

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2021, 07:24:27 AM »

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2021, 10:02:05 AM »
She was fired for violating store policy.  But Dana White offered her a job and she now works at UFC office in Vegas.  This was preCOVID, IDK if she's still there.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2021, 08:08:25 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKbUdLd6Xuc

Part of that guy's punishment should be that he has to publicly acknowledge he got taken down by a girl for the rest of his life.

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2021, 09:05:43 AM »
Part of that guy's punishment should be that he has to publicly acknowledge he got taken down by a girl for the rest of his life.

Or next UFC match...

wirecounter

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2021, 11:14:25 AM »
A few years ago, two criminals tried to rob my friend's jewelry store in Las Vegas.  He wrestled away a handgun from one of them, shot him in the back as he ran away, and killed him.  No charges against my friend.

changemyoil66

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2021, 12:37:54 PM »
A few years ago, two criminals tried to rob my friend's jewelry store in Las Vegas.  He wrestled away a handgun from one of them, shot him in the back as he ran away, and killed him.  No charges against my friend.

NV has a little more common sense that HI.  It's also how your friend articulated why he shot.  In NV, you can use deadly force if a violent crime (robbery) is being committed.  Compared to HI, it has to be a belief of death, serious injury, etc...

I would consider your friend lucky that some prosecutor wasn't trying to make a name for themselves.

Byron808

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2021, 08:33:30 AM »
it's pretty BS that we aren't allowed to protect our property using deadly force IMO.  especially since criminals seem to want to use a firearm increasingly more now days to rob people.

ren

Re: Protecting property...
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2021, 08:42:18 AM »
I like Dana White's principles. I wasn't a fan of MMA but after seeing the values he upholds I watch a bit.

The Myeni case should be concerning to all of us in Hawaii. We could be seeing our rights stripped away to protect criminals. Maybe our political leaders would like Hawaii to be more like a Zulu Nation much like how they want housing to be like Singapore. Maybe they'll pass a law where at a specific time anyone can come onto your property for what ever reason. We've seen during this 'pandemic' many rights that were shelved. We don't know our rights anymore and we sure don't fight for it. If you think people are willing to fight for rights go out and into a store without a mask.