FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban (Read 30348 times)

macsak

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #180 on: May 01, 2025, 10:29:59 AM »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #181 on: May 01, 2025, 10:44:28 AM »
Depending on the type of hearing, it could be 24 or 48 hours notice at minimum.  I've never seen a 6 day advance, but I've never read all the rules, so that could be possible.

They also can hold emergency sessions, but it's super rare.

I'll write a recap in another post.

Here's the Hawaii Sunshine Law that specifies scheduling hearings and giving the public 6 days notice;

Chapter 92: Public Agency Meetings and Records
Quote
§92-7 Notice.
(a) The board shall give written public notice of any regular, special, emergency, or rescheduled meeting, or any executive meeting when anticipated in advance. The notice shall include an agenda that lists all of the items to be considered at the forthcoming meeting; the date, time, and place of the meeting; the board’s electronic and postal contact information for submission of testimony before the meeting; instructions on how to request an auxiliary aid or service or an accommodation due to a disability, including a response deadline, if one is provided, that is reasonable; and in the case of an executive meeting the purpose shall be stated. If an item to be considered is the proposed adoption, amendment, or repeal of administrative rules, an agenda meets the requirements for public notice pursuant to this section if it contains a statement on the topic of the proposed rules or a general description of the subjects involved, as described in section 91-3(a)(1)(A), and a statement of when and where the proposed rules may be viewed in person and on the Internet as provided in section 91-2.6. The means specified by this section shall be the only means required for giving notice under this part notwithstanding any law to the contrary.

(b) No less than six calendar days before the meeting, the board shall post the notice on an electronic calendar on a website maintained by the State or the appropriate county and post a notice in the board’s office for public inspection. The notice shall also be posted at the site of the meeting whenever feasible. The board shall file a copy of the notice with the office of the lieutenant governor or the appropriate county clerk’s office and retain a copy of proof of filing the notice, and the office of the lieutenant governor or the appropriate clerk’s office shall ensure access to paper or electronic copies of all meeting notices; provided that a failure to do so by the board, the office of the lieutenant governor, or the appropriate county clerk’s office shall not require cancellation of the meeting. The copy of the notice to be provided to the office of the lieutenant governor or the appropriate county clerk’s office may be provided via electronic mail to an electronic mail address designated by the office of the lieutenant governor or the appropriate county clerk’s office, as applicable.

(c) If the written public notice is electronically posted on an electronic calendar less than six calendar days before the meeting, the meeting shall be canceled as a matter of law and shall not be held. The chairperson or the director shall ensure that a notice canceling the meeting is posted at the place of the meeting. If there is a dispute as to whether a notice was timely posted on an electronic calendar maintained by the State or appropriate county, a printout of the electronic time-stamped agenda shall be conclusive evidence of the electronic posting date. The board shall provide a copy of the time-stamped record upon request.

(d) No board shall change the agenda less than six calendar days prior to the meeting, by adding items thereto without a two-thirds recorded vote of all members to which the board is entitled; provided that no item shall be added to the agenda if it is of reasonably major importance and action thereon by the board will affect a significant number of persons. Items of reasonably major importance not decided at a scheduled meeting shall be considered only at a meeting continued to a reasonable day and time.
https://oip.hawaii.gov/laws-rules-opinions/sunshine-law/#927
« Last Edit: May 01, 2025, 11:02:31 AM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

QUIETShooter

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #182 on: May 01, 2025, 11:22:09 AM »
Per the Civic Beat article referenced above, "Technically, SB 401 remains alive for the 2026 session or if a special session is held later this year, as seems likely." Could we face this situation again this year if a special session is held?

I think so.  And just like weeds, the issue will arise again.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #183 on: May 01, 2025, 11:24:23 AM »
I read further, and of course the Legislature has the privilege of making their own rules ...
Quote
§92-10 Legislative branch; applicability. Notwithstanding any provisions contained in this chapter to the contrary, open meeting requirements, and provisions regarding enforcement, penalties and sanctions, as they are to relate to the state legislature or to any of its members shall be such as shall be from time to time prescribed by the respective rules and procedures of the senate and the house of representatives, which rules and procedures shall take precedence over this part. Similarly, provisions relating to notice, agenda and minutes of meetings, and such other requirements as may be necessary, shall also be governed by the respective rules and procedures of the senate and the house of representatives. [L 1975, c 166, pt of §11]

Here are the Senate's rules:
https://data.capitol.hawaii.gov/docs/SenateRules.pdf

and here are the House's rules:
https://data.capitol.hawaii.gov/docs/HouseRules.pdf

Senate rules state 72 hours notice for public meetings, and house rules state 48 hours before the scheduled meeting time.

I guess Sunshine Laws don't apply to the people to which they ought to apply.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #184 on: May 01, 2025, 11:28:20 AM »
Here's the Hawaii Sunshine Law that specifies scheduling hearings and giving the public 6 days notice;

Chapter 92: Public Agency Meetings and Recordshttps://oip.hawaii.gov/laws-rules-opinions/sunshine-law/#927

I won't read the entire webpage as I'm burnt out from the past few days of SB401.

There has to be some area that is missing because I've never seen a 6 day notice.  That would mean every anti 2a hearing for years had the rules broken.  I think the 6 day must apply to something not related to the committee's hearings or senate/house floor votes.

If you use SB401 as an example, "48 hour notice" is stated, but can be longer due to weekends/holidays. But nothing about 6 day notice.

changemyoil66

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #185 on: May 01, 2025, 11:29:57 AM »
I read further, and of course the Legislature has the privilege of making their own rules ...
Here are the Senate's rules:
https://data.capitol.hawaii.gov/docs/SenateRules.pdf

and here are the House's rules:
https://data.capitol.hawaii.gov/docs/HouseRules.pdf

Senate rules state 72 hours notice for public meetings, and house rules state 48 hours before the scheduled meeting time.

I guess Sunshine Laws don't apply to the people to which they ought to apply.

There we go. U answered my question I posted below.

I guess sunshine is for non bills stuff. I remember the AG hearing for the job, but I can't remember how many days notice they gave.

Begle1

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #186 on: May 01, 2025, 11:39:47 AM »
Brenton Awa
Lynn DeCoite
Samantha DeCorte
Mike Gabbard
Donna Mercado Kim
Ronald D. Kouchi
Angus L.K. McKelvey
Michelle N. Kidani
Herbert M. “Tim” Richards III
Henry J.C. Aquino
Glenn Wakai
Joy A. San Buenaventura
Kurt Fevella

Surprised to see Wakai on this list!

I was curious so broke it down by island. Not as significant a divide as I assumed.

No:
Awa - Oahu
DeCorte - Oahu
Gabbard - Oahu
Kim - Oahu
Kidani - Oahu
Aquino - Oahu
Wakai - Oahu
Fevella - Oahu
Richards - Big Island
Buenaventura - Big Island
Kouchi - Kauai
McKelvey - Maui
DeCoite - Maui

Yes:
Chang - Oahu
Dela Cruz - Oahu
Elefante - Oahu
Fukunaga - Oahu
Ihara - Oahu
Keohokalole - Oahu
Lee - Oahu
Moriwaki - Oahu
Rhoads - Oahu
Inouye - Big Island
Kanuha - Big Island
Hashimoto - Maui
« Last Edit: May 01, 2025, 11:50:37 AM by Begle1 »

changemyoil66

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #187 on: May 01, 2025, 11:54:49 AM »
Surprised to see Wakai on this list!

I was curious so broke it down by island. Not as significant a divide as I assumed.

No:
Awa - Oahu
DeCorte - Oahu
Gabbard - Oahu
Kim - Oahu
Kidani - Oahu
Aquino - Oahu
Wakai - Oahu
Fevella - Oahu
Richards - Big Island
Buenaventura - Big Island
Kouchi - Kauai
McKelvey - Maui
DeCoite - Maui

Yes:
Chang - Oahu
Dela Cruz - Oahu
Elefante - Oahu
Fukunaga - Oahu
Ihara - Oahu
Keohokalole - Oahu
Lee - Oahu
Moriwaki - Oahu
Rhoads - Oahu
Inouye - Big Island
Kanuha - Big Island
Hashimoto - Maui

I would say it's a significant divide as all of Kauai and Maui voted to "kill the bill". Then big island is 50/50.  If any of Kauai or Maui voted no, then the bill would have passed.

macsak

macsak

Begle1

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #190 on: May 01, 2025, 12:33:03 PM »
I would say it's a significant divide as all of Kauai and Maui voted to "kill the bill". Then big island is 50/50.  If any of Kauai or Maui voted no, then the bill would have passed.

Troy Hashimoto from Maui voted Yes not the way we wanted. (We'll need to work on him, he's new.)

Final tally was 5/8 not-Oahu senators voted how we wanted, and 8/17 Oahu senators voted how we wanted. 2/3 Maui senators, 2/4 Big Island senators, 1/1 Kauai senator.
One changed vote from any island and the bill would have passed.

« Last Edit: May 01, 2025, 12:57:24 PM by Begle1 »

hvybarrels

If you think being a conspiracy theorist is crazy, imagine believing that the people in power have your best interests at heart.

changemyoil66

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #192 on: May 06, 2025, 08:21:43 AM »
Editorial in the Honolulu Star Bulletin,

"An emergency session is likely" with regard to an"assault weapon/mag ban"

There is nothing in the senate/house rules that state what constitutes as an "emergency".  But seeing how our politicians disregard SCOTUS (Bruen), Hawaii Supreme Court (gut n repalce), and of course the Bill of Rights, I would say that they can make up any reason they want to hold an emergency session to take away our rights.

Kalihi Uka

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Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #193 on: May 06, 2025, 09:49:45 AM »
Hey everyone, just an organizational question:

I was down at the capital on 4/24 with Jon of HIFICO, Dale and his wife from Young Guns, and others from Hawaii Tactical Div., etc.

When asked why so few of us, both Jon and Dale mentioned that it’s “always like this,” - and yes, I was super happy to see the turnout on 4/30, so it seems maybe there’s the start of a change with this aggressive attack on us, but we clearly need to be on the offense big time against these “mothers” (most especially Rhoads and his new sidekick Tarnas, or is it the other way around).

They have money, the entrenched party machine, and the evil intent, but we have the numbers (by far) and the indomitable passion and commitment to our Constitution and the God given right to defend ourselves and it.

HIFICO the site (not Jon) seems a bit dead in the water. By its name it suggests it was maybe intended as a coordinating entity?  If so, can more volunteers/liaisons get it under steam again?

I get that people across organizations will all come together like we’ve just seen to fight, but how about doing the same all the time, to start making these tyrants have to look over their shoulders for US for a change.

This waiting for them to act, and then defensively responding, is 100% backwards and unnatural. They need to start taking fire from us for a change (politically - I’m obviously speaking figuratively, but the analogy is precisely the same: They have declared war on the U.S. Bill of Rights, and so on us).

Being a loner, I’m ignorant of our collective resources and how we can effectively organize across organizations to make it politically impossible for them to ever succeed - but I am 100% certain it can be done - we just proved that.

But they will likewise adapt their strategy and come back harder at us, and when they do, they need to feel a little more pain from the effort.

Of course getting these monsters out of office is great, but that’s a long-term (and in Hawaii, an uphill) strategy.  We need to be pushing ahead on effective things we can do in the process in an ongoing way in order to make Hawaii safe for the 2A.

Suggestions, ideas?  People I should talk to?

Thanks in advance guys & girls.

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changemyoil66

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #194 on: May 06, 2025, 10:19:07 AM »
It hasn't always been like this with regard to the people who showed up. Before HIFICO was formed, only about 6 people would show up in person to hearings.  Young Guns was 1 of them.  And the anti would have about 10 or so show up.  HRA at this time has stopped showing up (Harvey was the President).  For online testimonies, there were like 20 or so submitted against these anti 2a bills.

Since HIFICO was created, there are now a few hundred online testimonies and even at most I've seen was 1500 for a mag ban some years ago.  And in person we have anywhere from 10 to what you see.  With the invention of Zoom, not as many show up in person anymore.

This was a last minute rally put on by Firearms International. Which means only a few days notice.  Imagine if we had more time.  And compared to the anti 2a who look to be mostly retirement age, most of us still have jobs and school, so we cannot just take off with 2 days notice.

No one in HIFICO is getting paid nor does the org receive any federal funding or money from other org's.  Compare this to the anti 2A, which has shown to receive federal monies that is structured to hide it.  1 anti 2a vet even goes to say that we're getting paid by the big gun lobby.  If this is true, I nor anyone I know of has received any money. Compared to his org that receives funds.

On the HI attorney generals website, it shows that Everytown for Gun Safety has spend $36,000 last year for "marketing" and this year about $20,000. NRA is 0 for years as their are very absent in Hawaii.

So everyone who helps HIFICO is a volunteer. Jon who you met has to take time off to be there and it easily cost him a lot since he's self employed.  This means he has to turn jobs down for that day, which is lost income.  He has to do the same with every trip to HPD to comply with firearm applications that need to be in person.  Jon is also a plaintiff challenging HI's handgun 10rd mag ban.

We try to get pro 2a bills, but it's very difficult as those who control whether it gets a committee hearing are anti 2A. Rhodes, Wakai, Elefante, Tarnas.  I can't remember the last time there was a pro 2A bill presented let alone passed. I think the last pro 2a law that passed was after Hurricane Katrina about not being able to confiscate guns during an emergency.

Kalihi Uka

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Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #195 on: May 06, 2025, 11:01:31 AM »
Great thanks for that!

Been following this/submitting testimony for over 20 years, but not in person.

I joined and donated to HIFICO a long time ago, but I didn’t get any feedback (such that I thought maybe I dreamed it or something).

Tried again a few months ago, but the site has no membership page (oops 404!).  Tried contacting but no response.

None of this is in any way a criticism - just the opposite: I’m frustrated I can’t figure out a way to get involved!  I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels this way.

Jon mentioned to me that in addition to running his business, he’s got four kids.  What he’s doing is superhuman from my point of view.

On the other hand, I’m retired from the downtown black-crab bucket - I have the flexibility to do some damage.

You seem to be the person to know - who do I contact?  Website is a dead end - contact Jon at his business? (don’t like this idea - he’s a busy man), someone else associated with HIFICO I can talk to about volunteering?

Thanks again!

My ankle monitor? It’s right there at home where it belongs

changemyoil66

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #196 on: May 06, 2025, 11:48:59 AM »
Great thanks for that!

Been following this/submitting testimony for over 20 years, but not in person.

I joined and donated to HIFICO a long time ago, but I didn’t get any feedback (such that I thought maybe I dreamed it or something).

Tried again a few months ago, but the site has no membership page (oops 404!).  Tried contacting but no response.

None of this is in any way a criticism - just the opposite: I’m frustrated I can’t figure out a way to get involved!  I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels this way.

Jon mentioned to me that in addition to running his business, he’s got four kids.  What he’s doing is superhuman from my point of view.

On the other hand, I’m retired from the downtown black-crab bucket - I have the flexibility to do some damage.

You seem to be the person to know - who do I contact?  Website is a dead end - contact Jon at his business? (don’t like this idea - he’s a busy man), someone else associated with HIFICO I can talk to about volunteering?

Thanks again!

They're working on the website.

You can help by spreading the word when testimonies are due. Many don't have social media, so the coconut wireless is the best.  And convince those who don't want to do it without a valid reason to do it.  Explain "no vote, no grumble" type philosophy.

For now, you can also help donate to the Wolfard lawsuit and spread the word on this too. 

hvybarrels

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #197 on: May 06, 2025, 01:06:56 PM »
The constitutional convention option is coming up in 2028, where we will have the opportunity to introduce citizens initiatives.
The downside of that is the anti's could also repeal the second amendment from our state constitution, but things are so bad
as Hawaii descends into another violent liberal hellhole that support for gun rights will only grow by then.

It's important to stay active even while the Legislature is out of session, and there are plenty of ways that they have failed us.
With RealID, government crypto, and climate lockdowns they are trying to turn our state into an Australia-style dictatorship.
The attack on gun rights are just part of a larger picture that folks need to be made aware of, and if we don't do it no one will.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/KBIHYjtH1I4R


If you think being a conspiracy theorist is crazy, imagine believing that the people in power have your best interests at heart.

Kalihi Uka

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Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #198 on: May 06, 2025, 07:25:12 PM »
The constitutional convention option is coming up in 2028, where we will have the opportunity to introduce citizens initiatives.
The downside of that is the anti's could also repeal the second amendment from our state constitution, but things are so bad
as Hawaii descends into another violent liberal hellhole that support for gun rights will only grow by then.

It's important to stay active even while the Legislature is out of session, and there are plenty of ways that they have failed us.
With RealID, government crypto, and climate lockdowns they are trying to turn our state into an Australia-style dictatorship.
The attack on gun rights are just part of a larger picture that folks need to be made aware of, and if we don't do it no one will.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/KBIHYjtH1I4R

After the COVID tyranny-in-the-guise-of-public-health attempt, anyone who does not agree with you should probably not be listened to very much with respect to what’s in play in our country and state.  I personally believe they wanted to go a lot further toward the Australian model of hell here, but they knew a) not enough police here to enforce it, and b) they would absolutely have to use force, as thousands of us would confront them.  So yes, I do believe they thought about there being more guns registered here than people, and that is EXACTLY how it should be, and it’s also why they’re desperate to disarm the people of Hawaii.

As an aside, I believe that if the Kingdom of Hawaii had the equivalent of the 2A, the Marines might not have taken their walk down King Street, and the history for Hawaiians would have been far less hurtful.  I believe Hawaiian history is a powerful argument for the 2A, and why the people here are especially entitled to its protections.  Just an old bastard’s two cents.
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Kuleana

Re: FIRE MISSION SB401 due by 2/11 at 3pm 50 cal ban
« Reply #199 on: May 06, 2025, 09:19:56 PM »
As an aside, I believe that if the Kingdom of Hawaii had the equivalent of the 2A, the Marines might not have taken their walk down King Street, and the history for Hawaiians would have been far less hurtful.  I believe Hawaiian history is a powerful argument for the 2A, and why the people here are especially entitled to its protections.  Just an old bastard’s two cents.
Although the Hawaiian Kingdom did not have the right-to-bear-arms equivalent to the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution in their own Constitution, Hawaii did not; however, have gun control in the modern sense until its illegal annexation by the US empire in 1898 in order to prevent Hawaiian nationals from taking arms and country back from the US empire.

The failure of Hawaiian nationals to take up arms against the US empire during and after the reign of Queen Liliuokalani had more to do with her being manipulated by the pro-American Hawaiian nationals she kept company that duped her into trusting the US empire in not annexing her nation by force.