2aHawaii

General Topics => Strategies and Tactics => Topic started by: drck1000 on April 02, 2018, 09:16:57 AM

Title: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 02, 2018, 09:16:57 AM
Many folks here invest time and considerable money into firearms training.  I also think that many are interested in doing that as well, but are hesitant for many reasons (which I really do understand).  So I wanted to start a thread to share my experiences, both good and bad, as well as encourage others to share those.  My hope is that others can learn from those shared experiences and encourage them to seek out training as well.

Most recent course was a one day handgun course over the weekend.  I've attended a few classes with this group in the past year or so and I've gotten to know many of the folks who attend.  There's a wide range of backgrounds and shooting experience.  That's one aspect that I always encounter and sometimes "worry" about when seeking out training with a new group.  You're always going to have a wide range of experience most open enrollment type course, especially in the "level I" or beginner type courses.  The class this past weekend was in the intermediate level with folks had successfully completed the basic level course(s) with this group.  Anyways, my point is that over the years, I've come to really appreciate the trainers that can accommodate the wide range of experience in shooters that they train and to be able to quickly evaluate who needs more attention, while keeping them safe, as well as being able to find ways to push those who they feel can be pushed.  I've attended many basic courses and I will always learn something.  That said, I have found and really come to appreciate those trainers who can still challenge the more experienced shooters in those basic courses. 

I have attended multiple shooting courses on the mainland.  I had more time and $$$ in the past, but both are much more tight these days.  There were times that I spent in the $5000-6000 (and more at times) to attend a 3-5 (ETA) day courses.  The airfare, hotel, car rental, ammo cost, etc all add up quickly.  Yes, firearm training opportunities in Hawaii are few and far between, but they are excellent opportunities out there.  However, even then, it does take up a whole day and I understand it is difficult for many to find that kind of time to dedicate to training.

Getting back to the point, some lessons learned from this past weekend.

Self evaluation and being honest with yourself.  I had spent a bunch of range time recently to figure out some kinks in my handgun marksmanship.  I had developed some bad habits and I spent a bunch of time doing ball and dummy drills to diagnose as well as iron things out.  Going into this course, I thought I had done a pretty good job of ironing things out.  So the first course of fire is a "cold" standards drill where the first shot of the day is a shot at 4 yards on a 6" diameter target.  Well, my first shot was just barely out and what I had been working on showed up.  I was able to clean that up for the second and third parts of that drill, but I was really disappointed that what I had been working on had crept back in.  That's why I like the "cold" drills for evaluating myself.  I've also gotten frustrated with myself in the past when I started noticing that I am shooting poorly and in the past it could throw me off for a while.  But I was able to get back into the groove and clean it up.  So just a reminder on how humbling shooting can be at times.

Working out your gear.  I was using a newer belt setup that I had put together over the holidays.  New belt, new pouch system, etc.  I had used this set up on a more "mellow" range day a while back and it seemed to work out well.  Well, not too far into the day, I noticed that the malice clips on my pistol mag pouches had come loose.  I would later find that the "head" of the malice clips were sliding out of the molle on the pouch.  So I had to adjust the way that I had put on the malice clip.  Actually I had to do that after the pouch came loose a second time.  I also noticed some other shooters where their gear either didn't seem to be working well, mags were falling out of pouches, etc.  I am a big believer of "using what you got/brought".  However, many times there are better options and you really have to spend some time to work out the kinks in your gear setup and more than wearing around the house.

Shooting in adverse conditions.  It was pouring for about the middle third of the day.  I've shot in the rain before, even in the 0-10 F weather and snow.  While the latter is not realistic for most of us, shooting in the rain is always interesting.  Yes, the Glock slide is much more slippery.  Some things that I normally do with a dry slide either don't work well or some don't even work with a wet slide.  I'll have to consider changing those things.  But also things like your hands become waterlogged and just sort of perform differently.  Or even stuff like your hands show wear more because the skin is waterlogged.  There were bunch of folks who are surgeons in this course and they commented on that.  I also found that my dump pouch is quite water resistant and there was quite a pool that developed in the pouch.  Not a big deal for me, but something that others noticed with their dump pouches.  I usually only keep my empty mags in there, but sometimes I keep spare ammo in there or other stuff.  If I had my cell phone in there, that wouldn't have been good. 

I also noticed that black paste had developed in my gun that I had never noticed before.  We shot about 250-300 that day, so not that much.  I had never seen that before.  I assumed it was a combination of the water from the rain, the carbon from the dirty Blazer Brass ammo and lube.  I don't think it would have gummed up the gun, but just something I had never noticed before.  I can't imagine with it's like for the military folks who have been in the sandbox or other worst condition places.  Anyways, my point was that shooting outdoors brings a whole other aspect that is one of those "you never know until you try" sort of deals. 

You don't know what you don't know.  Being able to shoot with a trainer who has a keen eye for spotting things is huge.  The group that I shot with this past weekend are great with that.  They pointed out a couple of things that I didn't realize I was doing, or bad habits that crept back in.  I also noticed those things in other shooters, where their mind gets so wrapped up on the course of fire that they sort of forget things.  So having an open mind to correction is key as well.  It never amazes me how many folks I come across in shooting there they "know what they know" and aren't open to correction because they feel that they've been there and done that. 

Overall, I really enjoy shooting and would like to get out and do these types of courses more often.  I flat out enjoy them as well as I want to improve as a shooter.  My hope of this thread is to share that with folks that might be considering getting started, but are hesitant as they don't quite know what to expect.  It's not cheap and does involve a considerable time commitment. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Drakiir84 on April 02, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
Awesome post bro.  As you well know I shot once with the group you're talking about and the thing I was most impressed with was their diagnostic skills.  I mean if you can improve on the nearly perfect shooter that I already am that's saying something ;-) :-P

Any opportunity to take a class on island is an opportunity that should be taken advantage of.  It's ridiculous how fast the money adds up going to a mainland course, the trouble is that there is a huge demand on island and a very minimal supply.

Self evaluation and practicing the right way every time is key.  I'm also a huge fan of cold drills since self defense situations are always shot cold.  Can't ask a bad guy to give you a second try.

Gear.  I cannot count how many times I've seen people fuddle their gear or their equipment.  Buying cool guns and gear is always fun, but the most important thing in shooting is looking cool.  Dropping your shit all over the ground doesn't look cool.  Not being able to load your AK doesn't look cool.  Put your shit together, get it situated as close to perfect as possible and put in the reps.  If you have a new holster get your draws in, as many as you can, 80-100 every night until it's second nature.  Same with drawing mags and reloading.  I will never understand people that don't dry fire practice when it is both free and priceless.  You should be able to grab your "battle belt" or holster and mag pouches and be ready and good to go no matter the situation.  Practice, practice, practice, practice.  There are no cheats or secrets, just hard work through deliberate repetitions.  As hilarious as watching someone trying to draw their pistol but instead just shuffling their loose fitting belt up and down along their body while not even getting close to clearing the weapon from the over-tightened terrible holster is.... I'd prefer they just squared their shit away.  Find someone that knows what they're doing and ask questions to save time and money.

If it ain't raining it ain't training.  Seems like whenever these guys have a class it pours lol.  Always helps to have a pair of gloves to keep your soft mushy hands from getting cut up and to keep a good grip.  While it might not be a big deal at a 1 day training class, getting cut in the field can be life threatening.  Everyone should have a couple pairs of good gloves to protect their hands.

You know what you know and you don't know what you don't know.  Like I said earlier, their diagnostic abilities are second to none.  Personally I started getting a really bad habit of not resetting the trigger immediately after shooting.  I know the reason for this is from teaching too many basic pistol classes.  Drilling into new students the importance of follow through and learning trigger reset caused me to delay my trigger reset when shooting for real.  They noticed that I was doing that and I immediately went home, got out the SIRT and spend hours practicing forced breathing pauses and better trigger reset.  Regardless of how much you know there is always more to learn and we should all be open to constructive criticism. 

Get out there, spend the cash, get training, look cool.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 02, 2018, 12:46:42 PM
1) Awesome post bro.  As you well know I shot once with the group you're talking about and the thing I was most impressed with was their diagnostic skills.  I mean if you can improve on the nearly perfect shooter that I already am that's saying something ;-) :-P

Any opportunity to take a class on island is an opportunity that should be taken advantage of.  It's ridiculous how fast the money adds up going to a mainland course, the trouble is that there is a huge demand on island and a very minimal supply.

2) Self evaluation and practicing the right way every time is key.  I'm also a huge fan of cold drills since self defense situations are always shot cold.  Can't ask a bad guy to give you a second try.

3) Gear.  I cannot count how many times I've seen people fuddle their gear or their equipment.  Buying cool guns and gear is always fun, but the most important thing in shooting is looking cool.  Dropping your shit all over the ground doesn't look cool.  Not being able to load your AK doesn't look cool.  Put your shit together, get it situated as close to perfect as possible and put in the reps.  If you have a new holster get your draws in, as many as you can, 80-100 every night until it's second nature.  Same with drawing mags and reloading.  I will never understand people that don't dry fire practice when it is both free and priceless.  You should be able to grab your "battle belt" or holster and mag pouches and be ready and good to go no matter the situation.  Practice, practice, practice, practice.  There are no cheats or secrets, just hard work through deliberate repetitions.  As hilarious as watching someone trying to draw their pistol but instead just shuffling their loose fitting belt up and down along their body while not even getting close to clearing the weapon from the over-tightened terrible holster is.... I'd prefer they just squared their shit away.  Find someone that knows what they're doing and ask questions to save time and money.

4) If it ain't raining it ain't training.  Seems like whenever these guys have a class it pours lol.  Always helps to have a pair of gloves to keep your soft mushy hands from getting cut up and to keep a good grip.  While it might not be a big deal at a 1 day training class, getting cut in the field can be life threatening.  Everyone should have a couple pairs of good gloves to protect their hands.

5) You know what you know and you don't know what you don't know.  Like I said earlier, their diagnostic abilities are second to none.  Personally I started getting a really bad habit of not resetting the trigger immediately after shooting.  I know the reason for this is from teaching too many basic pistol classes.  Drilling into new students the importance of follow through and learning trigger reset caused me to delay my trigger reset when shooting for real.  They noticed that I was doing that and I immediately went home, got out the SIRT and spend hours practicing forced breathing pauses and better trigger reset.  Regardless of how much you know there is always more to learn and we should all be open to constructive criticism. 

Get out there, spend the cash, get training, look cool.

1) Uh huh.  "Drakiir Perfection", huh?   :rofl:

2) I've always been a fan of the cold tests, drills, etc.  Exactly the point.  It's not like you're gonna get a warm up session in prior to a defensive situation.  I've actually been thinking of going to HFR more just to be able to do those kinds of drills more often.  Not to the point where I'm drilling that particular sequence though.  Something that I'd like to expand on though for sure.

3) Gear is a huge thing for me.  I am not a gear snob, but there's definitely a difference. I mean, get what you can afford and it doesn't have to be "Gucci shit", but there are definitely stuff that are crap.  I'm definitely one that likes to try and test for myself.  That gets expensive for sure, but I really value the opportunity to figure things out and find what works and more importantly doesn't work, at least for me.  Yeah, I've seen many folks be all geared up and look cool, but only to have their stuff not work, fumble with stuff, etc.  Part of the learning process and one that I admit went through, and still do really. 

4) I was "smart" enough to have a rain jacket this time.  Last time, I just got soaked!  When I took classes in Alaska, I had stuff like Goretex pants and stuff.  Could've come in handy this past weekend.  Gloves is something that I didn't mention and good point.  Not only for the practical aspect, but also getting used to shooting with them on.  They definitely change things. 

5) That trigger reset thing is also something that I catch myself on from time to time.  Especially when I get into trying to make that "one shot".  Yeah, comes from the basic pistol classes and demonstrating the follow through.  Yup, there's always much to learn.  Something I discussed with some folks in the debrief part.  We see so many "I've been there, done that, what could you teach me" type folks in the basic pistol classes.  While I will try to help them, I tend to just let them be as long as they are safe and spend my time and energy toward those who are receptive to instruction.

And I think you've been watching enough Garand Thumb.   :P
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Drakiir84 on April 02, 2018, 01:08:52 PM
1) Uh huh.  "Drakiir Perfection", huh?   :rofl:

2) I've always been a fan of the cold tests, drills, etc.  Exactly the point.  It's not like you're gonna get a warm up session in prior to a defensive situation.  I've actually been thinking of going to HFR more just to be able to do those kinds of drills more often.  Not to the point where I'm drilling that particular sequence though.  Something that I'd like to expand on though for sure.

3) Gear is a huge thing for me.  I am not a gear snob, but there's definitely a difference. I mean, get what you can afford and it doesn't have to be "Gucci shit", but there are definitely stuff that are crap.  I'm definitely one that likes to try and test for myself.  That gets expensive for sure, but I really value the opportunity to figure things out and find what works and more importantly doesn't work, at least for me.  Yeah, I've seen many folks be all geared up and look cool, but only to have their stuff not work, fumble with stuff, etc.  Part of the learning process and one that I admit went through, and still do really. 

4) I was "smart" enough to have a rain jacket this time.  Last time, I just got soaked!  When I took classes in Alaska, I had stuff like Goretex pants and stuff.  Could've come in handy this past weekend.  Gloves is something that I didn't mention and good point.  Not only for the practical aspect, but also getting used to shooting with them on.  They definitely change things. 

5) That trigger reset thing is also something that I catch myself on from time to time.  Especially when I get into trying to make that "one shot".  Yeah, comes from the basic pistol classes and demonstrating the follow through.  Yup, there's always much to learn.  Something I discussed with some folks in the debrief part.  We see so many "I've been there, done that, what could you teach me" type folks in the basic pistol classes.  While I will try to help them, I tend to just let them be as long as they are safe and spend my time and energy toward those who are receptive to instruction.

And I think you've been watching enough Garand Thumb.   
No such thing as too much Garand Thumb.  As a fellow crayon eating Marine, he really gets me lol.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Surf on April 05, 2018, 09:05:46 PM
Great to hear these responses and much appreciated  We take great pride in on our diagnostics abilities and we are often sourced by outside entities to specifically address hard target audiences or to work with select shooters/units to take their shooting to the next level of performance.  With very limited availability, our advanced level diagnostics courses are our pride and premier events, hope to get to those one day. 

Only within the last year, we have looked outside of strictly LE/Mil/Gov clients and have included private sector events.  Having been involved operationally and in the training world most of my adult life, this has been a great experience, with awesome people and a huge plus in our lives.  Being able to look outside of the "bubble" that we have been in career-wise and making new friends is life changing.  Also, having seen the entire training circus on the mainland develope over the last 15 years or so and having traveled the map doing it, I am glad to have had other opportunities to break from that full time.  Just to stay involved we are thrilled to be able to bring world-class experiences from time to time, to the private sector in our backyard because we truly love what we do and want to share this with others and promote what we all enjoy.  Hawaii deserves it, but Hawaii being Hawaii, discretion is important to us and our clients. 

As far as testing out new gear and set-ups, we are gear people also.  We have helped to T&E or R&D several top items on the market currently in several areas, so our exposure is pretty good, and we have also BTDT out of pocket, so we welcome those to tap our experience or to shake out your configurations during training. 

I think there are a few key things that stop people from getting involved or seeking professional training.
1) Costs.  If you have not done any professional training, it may sound like an expensive undertaking, and it is.  I am asked all the time how much does it cost to travel to the mainland for a training class?  Airfare, extra baggage fees, hotel, rental car, meals, ammunition, course tuition, range fees, misc expenses, can easily hit $5K and up.  If you can get that same training in Hawaii from a vetted and high caliber training group, jump on the opportunity.  The savings are huge.  Top quality training in Hawaii is not easy to come by, so anyone who has the chance and desire should not pass the opportunity should it present itself.  Most never even hear about how to get involved.

2) Lack of knowledge/Dunning Kruger.  Many people don't know, what they don't know, or they think they know more than they do.  There are people new to this sport/hobby, and they are feeling their way around.  This is great.  Try to find good people and learn but keep a very open mind.  Avoid those who wish to be your guru and don't encourage you to seek out others.  Unfortunately, there are far more fakes out there who you want to avoid, so getting the best information can be confusing.   

The other type is a typical male response.  It goes like this, "I have grown up hunting and been shooting all my life," or "I was in the military."  This is the Dunning-Kruger type who immediately overestimates their skills and male bravado often stops them from seeking actual professional instruction.  Do not confuse a professional with a recreational shooting group of friends.  While there can be professionals in a shooting group, a group of individuals out shooting does not automatically equal professional.  Having trained hundreds of Mil/LE/Gov types, they often overestimate their skills.  Usually, the upper percentile shooters get it.  They seek out training and always strive to better themselves.  The lesser educated/skilled, or less confident individual makes excuses to avoid personal development.  Just human nature.  Don't be afraid to understand your current level of knowledge and skill.  Any deficit is not a negative reflection of you as a person.  It merely means that you have not dedicated the time or put in the work to master the skills, but with time and some effort, you will get there.  This is why females often make better students when it comes to firearms.  They have no male ego associated with firearms.   

3) Procrastinators.  "I'll get to it one of these days."  I have no issues there, people are busy, and we must prioritize our lives and our time.  But if you are genuinely interested, just get out there and do it.  Join some friends that shoot.  Join a club.  Work towards professional instruction.  I will say again, if an opportunity for high caliber training presents itself, jump on it.  The opening may not always be there.

With all sincerity, thanks, guys.  Like minded people will come together and I look forward to seeing you in the future!  Keep up the hard work, as it is evident that you guys take pride in your shooting skills.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 09, 2018, 07:33:29 AM
No such thing as too much Garand Thumb.  As a fellow crayon eating Marine, he really gets me lol.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
And here I thought he was an Army dude.   ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: ren on April 09, 2018, 07:52:02 AM
The Army side of the military is certainly lacking in marskmanship opportunities. Senior leadership thinks that marksmanship can be taught on-the-fly i.e. at pre mobilization training thus, marksmanship doesn't get the emphasis at the soldier level. Certainly if you are in a maneuver unit you'll get more trigger time but it doesn't necessarily equate to quality time.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 09, 2018, 08:15:27 AM
Testing gear setups is always interesting and somewhat fun for me.  I'm very much one that needs to try and see for myself.  That also leads to having a "box of stuff (or crap)", which I'm sure many of us have.  Stuff that you thought might be good but either wasn't or just wasn't quite what you wanted.  Many gear companies seem to have started out that way, making things that they felt wasn't available or wasn't quite right. 

Cost of training is definitely a factor that gives folks pause.  The costs definitely add up to travel to the mainland to get training.  In the 2012-2016 timeframe, I tried to get a few trainers to come to Hawaii.  A couple that I had attended classes with and a couple more through "friends of friends".  Range suitability and availability was always the hold up.  Even then, knowing what I know now, it would be difficult to mobilize the 15-20 folks needed to make it work their while.  Even with many of the classes that I attended on the mainland, the organizer/host had to scramble for attendance.  One was good because they arranged a company to sponsor as a bonding thing.  Thankfully there is quality training by reputable folks/companies now offering training in Hawaii and it's definitely great thing for me.  Especially now when I don't have the time nor funds that I used to be able to dedicate to training.  I've always been passionate about training and while I wish that more Hawaii folks would participate, I also understand that everyone has lives.  I used to be more active in trying to get folks to train, but now I sort let folks come talk to me when they are interested.  I have recently gotten the bug again though. 

The don't know what people don't know thing is huge.  Like I mentioned above for training as well as my experience in the basic pistol courses.  I always keep an open mind, especially since many courses available locally tend to be on the basic level.  As I mentioned above, I still learn things in those courses.  While I've been to a number of training courses, there are definitely trainers who can help me improve, but I am also always looking at how I can improve as well as seeing habits of other shooters, both good and bad.  I've definitely come across the BTDT folks, both in training courses and being an HRA instructor.  It frustrates me, but as an instructor, I just try to give more time to folks that are open.  Don't really see the BTDT folks in training courses, since they probably already feel that they don't need the training.  But there's the occasional "that guy" to watch out for.  And yeah, females tend to be much better students than males in my experience with basic pistol.  Yeah, some have to get over certain things like fear of the gun, some strength issues, but they usually come in with a more open mind. 

Never really thought about the "I'll get to it one of these days" folks, but that is very much a number of my shooting buddies.  Even me to a certain extent there when I wasn't attending courses that often.  While the opportunities in Hawaii are limited, there are definitely options out there.  It helps to know the right people for sure, but when something is important to someone, they are going to find the time for it in their lives. 

I wish I had more time and opportunity for firearms training.  However, sometimes I do wonder if I had better access to ranges that I might take it for granted or even sort of get tired of it.  My buddies on the mainland (AZ, NV, TX, etc) have some awesome range setups, both formal and informal.  But seeing as I don't see having access to those kinds of facilities any time soon, well, I guess that won't be a "problem".   ;D

Always looking for like minded folks to share my passion for firearms.  Like many things, it may seem daunting coming in as a newbie.  I know I felt pretty intimidated when I first got into attending training courses, getting started in IPSC/USPSA, etc.  But I found that there are tons of cool folks that are eager to share their passion for shooting.  While many have decades of experience, they are many times the most welcoming to new shooters. 

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 09, 2018, 08:18:29 AM
The Army side of the military is certainly lacking in marskmanship opportunities. Senior leadership thinks that marksmanship can be taught on-the-fly i.e. at pre mobilization training thus, marksmanship doesn't get the emphasis at the soldier level. Certainly if you are in a maneuver unit you'll get more trigger time but it doesn't necessarily equate to quality time.
Is that due to lack of support from chain of command?  Funding? 

The thing about Senior leadership not getting it is pretty common on DoD, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised that that flows over into firearms training. 

When I shot with SRGC, one of my buddies was a 1SG and he mentioned that he was all for getting more training, but it depended on the Command.  He had come back from Korea and he said his Command there was more supportive, but opportunities was more limited.  Sounded like the ranges were different there.  Didn't really ask. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on April 09, 2018, 01:30:59 PM
Is that due to lack of support from chain of command?  Funding? 

The people at the top aren't the ones shooting guns in a battle.  Service members at the bottom don't know any better and need guidance from the top.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Surf on April 09, 2018, 08:31:04 PM
Training experiences with Marines.  Just discussing this today with two Marines who are currently in our program undergoing our one-week iron sight only rifle course.  One is 33 and the other is 24.  The older is from the iron sight generation and the younger is an optic generation Marine.  We have noticed a distinct difference in Marksmanship as a whole in Marines from those trained classically on iron sight and those from the optic generation.  An absolute clear-cut difference in overall marksmanship skills from the two generations of Marines that we have seen and tracked over the years since the switch.     

If you have the chance, absolutely train and become a great marksman with irons.  You will be a better shooter in the long-run.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Drakiir84 on April 10, 2018, 07:48:49 AM
Training experiences with Marines.  Just discussing this today with two Marines who are currently in our program undergoing our one-week iron sight only rifle course.  One is 33 and the other is 24.  The older is from the iron sight generation and the younger is an optic generation Marine.  We have noticed a distinct difference in Marksmanship as a whole in Marines from those trained classically on iron sight and those from the optic generation.  An absolute clear-cut difference in overall marksmanship skills from the two generations of Marines that we have seen and tracked over the years since the switch.     

If you have the chance, absolutely train and become a great marksman with irons.  You will be a better shooter in the long-run.

When I went through boot in 2003 it was all irons.  Plugging a target at 500 yards with iron sights is a great feeling lol.  My aging eyes definitely benefit from a red dot nowadays but every now and again I'll shut it off and use my backup irons.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 10, 2018, 08:11:14 AM
Training experiences with Marines.  Just discussing this today with two Marines who are currently in our program undergoing our one-week iron sight only rifle course.  One is 33 and the other is 24.  The older is from the iron sight generation and the younger is an optic generation Marine.  We have noticed a distinct difference in Marksmanship as a whole in Marines from those trained classically on iron sight and those from the optic generation.  An absolute clear-cut difference in overall marksmanship skills from the two generations of Marines that we have seen and tracked over the years since the switch.     

If you have the chance, absolutely train and become a great marksman with irons.  You will be a better shooter in the long-run.

When I got my first AR, I actually didn't have irons for a little while.  That was because the irons that I wanted hadn't come in yet when I picked up my gun.  So I shot it a couple of range sessions with just a red dot.  However, all of my guns do have irons.  And I've actually been wanting to take a class and shoot with just irons.  I mean I guess I can always turn off the dot here and there, but I usually don't as I get caught up in concentrating on other things.  So going into a class with a gun with just irons would force me to do so. 

I do try to spend time shooting with irons here and there though.  Just not as much as I would like to. 

When I went through boot in 2003 it was all irons.  Plugging a target at 500 yards with iron sights is a great feeling lol.  My aging eyes definitely benefit from a red dot nowadays but every now and again I'll shut it off and use my backup irons.
Your aging eyes?  You still youngin'! 

When I did a project out at Puuloa, I was with another shooting enthusiast.  So after we were done, we went out to the shooting positions.  Ended up driving out to the 1000 yard position.  Those numbers on the backstop are HUGE, but they start looking pretty small at that distance.  There were other guys doing some on the berm when we were out at 1000 and they appear like ants! 

And I do the same every so often at fun shoots. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 10, 2018, 09:37:02 AM
Some lessons learned along the way.

1) Label your mags with something to ID as yours as well as number them. Will help in identifying which mags are yours since there are many times there will be mags all over the place after a course of fire.  Labeling your mags will help everyone retrieve and sort quicker and move on.  It will also help to to identify if any of your mags are problematic and the numbers can help you isolate the problem one. 

2) Make sure you have weather appropriate gear.  Weather conditions can change quickly.  I've been caught a couple of times when the weather was clear in town and it was raining at the range.  Even when I had a class in Alaska in May, it was snowing and 0-20 F on one day. 

3) Electronic hearing protection.  It will help you hear instructions easier, especially when on the shooting line. 

4) Try to make sure your guns are functioning properly prior to the class and zeroed before the class.  Especially in carbine courses, it can take a while to get folks' guns zeroed and that's time away from shooting or other more useful instruction.  Don't have to have your guns dead nuts on, but at least close and you can confirm.  When traveling it was recommended that I arrive a day early and zero.  I did that once and it helped, but I haven't done that since. 

5) Try to have backups for things, or at least spare parts.  When traveling, I have taken two carbines and two handguns.  I have been lucky in that the only failure that I experienced was a cracked safety selector and the safety selector from my backup gun "fixed" that.  But my backup gun has also saved the day for a few other shooters.  In one carbine course, the red dot on my backup gun helped one shooter on day 1 and another on day 2.  I'm not saying you have to go out an buy backups for everything, but it's just that stuff fails and it would suck to have that ruin your trip.

6) Attitude.  Be prepared to learn and pay attention to instructions.  When there are breaks, take water and stuff, but be back on the line promptly.  Having a class where you're always waiting on "that guy" to get back to the line or have instructions repeated for them because they were chatting it up slows the course down and takes away from valuable training time. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on May 07, 2018, 09:20:14 AM
Had a two day carbine course over the weekend.  Always learning.   :thumbsup:

Some general takeaways.

I'm glad that I took a backup upper.  The muzzle device on my primary upper had worked it's way loose late morning of the day 2.  It happens.  I always try to have backup items when I take courses.  Before this past weekend, I've only had one part fail, but my backups had helped a handful of other shooters over many courses. 

My gun started locking the bolt back with one round left in the magazine.  It was strange.  We had been doing mag reloads earlier and it was just fine.  Then I noticed the gun would go to bolt lock and I'd reload.  Later, I would see that the mag still had one round left.  Then I noticed it happening more often.  This was with both uppers.  I suspected mags, but it was doing it with random mags.  I had a range of NHMTG USGI, BCM USGI, and Lancer mags.  The USGI had Magpul followers and the Lancer has a follower that is pretty close to the Magpul.  It was pretty close to the end of the day and we weren't doing shooting that needed mag changes in that course of fire, so I didn't pay attention.  I suspected that either crud has gotten below the bolt catch or maybe something had happened to the bolt catch itself.  Anyways, when I got home, I noticed that the bolt catch moved pretty freely and the spring wasn't keeping it down.  So just inserting a mag could pop it up.  Funny that I checked one of my other main ARs and the bolt catch spring wasn't that good either.  I then checked a couple other lowers that I don't shoot that often and the spring is strong enough that it keeps the bolt catch down somewhat firmly.  So have to get some new springs to change out the old ones and see how that goes. 

The gun belt setup I was using was still pretty new and first time I was using it with ARs in a class setting.  I have ESSTAC pouches with the KYWI inserts.  I like the pouches, but the retention works really well.  Almost too well.  I think mostly just getting used to the pouches as my previous setup has HSGI Tacos which are very easy to remove.  Also assume some level of breaking with the KYWI inserts.  Made mag reloading drills interesting.

This class introduced me to at least a few new (to me) procedures.  Even though I was trying to follow them, when speeding things up, I found myself reverting to previous techniques.  Something I have to work on, or at least give more time.  Always trying to be better and improve, but damn if old habits aren't tough to break.  I have gone through some transition in pistol shooting with this training group over the past year and I think I've gotten that aspect as almost habit, so I know it will take some time. 

HAVE FUN!  We were blessed with awesome weather, even some "excitement" courtesy of Madam Pele, so couldn't complain there.  The folks that were in the class were also awesome and really made for an awesome vibe for the entire course.  Sometimes you get the know-it-alls, the "I do what I like", etc type of folks.  None of that here.  Everyone focused on becoming better shooters, while having lots of fun.  Supporting each other and encouraging each other.  Made for an enjoyable class! 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 07, 2018, 10:03:58 AM
Awesome that Big Island has classes.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on May 08, 2018, 07:55:09 AM
        Not much to argue about here.

Get quality equipment.
Get quality training.
Have a good attitude.
Keep an opened mind.
Get challenged.
Keep with like minded folks.
Help others.
Have fun.
My recent class had all of the above.  :thumbsup:
Mahalo to all 

  Pay attention, listen and learn.
Don't do it till you get it right, do it till you can't get it wrong !  ;)

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on May 08, 2018, 08:21:21 AM
        Not much to argue about here.

Get quality equipment.
Get quality training.
Have a good attitude.
Keep an opened mind.
Get challenged.
Keep with like minded folks.
Help others.
Have fun.
My recent class had all of the above.  :thumbsup:
Mahalo to all 

  Pay attention, listen and learn.
Don't do it till you get it right, do it till you can't get it wrong !  ;)
Opened mind is important.  :D

Heard some wise advice many times over the weekend. “Trust, but verify”. Something that I’ve tried to incorporate into my firrearms training for many years. Find whatever works for you. Be willing to try other techniques, try them out for yourself, give them a fair shake, and decide if it works for you.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on May 08, 2018, 08:52:31 AM
Opened mind is important.  :D

Heard some wise advice many times over the weekend. “Trust, but verify”. Something that I’ve tried to incorporate into my firrearms training for many years. Find whatever works for you. Be willing to try other techniques, try them out for yourself, give them a fair shake, and decide if it works for you.
    Yes, the new standards  "safety, tuck, dump, reload, release bolt, un-tuck,  safety" while tactical technique was difficult for me, but I think if I get an ambi safety, I'll give that a whack again.
Changing stance after years upon years was/is also challenging.

     Now the question is do you incorporate these new techniques (like stance) into your instruction of others or maintain the acknowledged NRA type basic skills for entry level students.
I think maintaining  the "basic skills for entry level" sides with the walk before you can run"  philosophy but is like "learning to print before learning to write" (not like anybody writes anymore) where you throw away what you've learned to learn it a new way.
    Thoughts/Opinions ? :-\
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on May 08, 2018, 10:12:13 AM
    Yes, the new standards  "safety, tuck, dump, reload, release bolt, un-tuck,  safety" while tactical technique was difficult for me, but I think if I get an ambi safety, I'll give that a whack again.
Changing stance after years upon years was/is also challenging.

     Now the question is do you incorporate these new techniques (like stance) into your instruction of others or maintain the acknowledged NRA type basic skills for entry level students.
I think maintaining  the "basic skills for entry level" sides with the walk before you can run"  philosophy but is like "learning to print before learning to write" (not like anybody writes anymore) where you throw away what you've learned to learn it a new way.
    Thoughts/Opinions ? :-\
Good question.  My initial thoughts are fundamentals are fundamentals.  That said, for new techniques, I would like to take a while to try, test, train, incorporate, etc before passing on that information.  For NRA classes with LIFE, I generally stick to the "script" and add my personal touches here and there.  For the occasional HRA shoots, I present techniques in a "try this technique" and present the reasons, logic, benefits, etc behind them.  That said, those shoots are often quite short and most of the time are spent on courses of fire as opposed to techniques.  I mean I will go over them and break them down, but most times once we get into other courses of fire, I notice most shooters more focused on the course of fire and go back to their old habits.  I'll see them try the new things, but I understand that it takes time.  Even something as simple as deliberate loading (loading in workspace and other simple stuff) I see forgotten. 

Yes, generally agree with the "walk before you run" theory, but again, I think fundamentals are fundamentals and I personally always look to work on those.  That safety thing you were talking about is a different story though.  Totally messes me up. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on May 16, 2018, 04:31:03 PM
    Yes, the new standards  "safety, tuck, dump, reload, release bolt, un-tuck,  safety" while tactical technique was difficult for me, but I think if I get an ambi safety, I'll give that a whack again.
Changing stance after years upon years was/is also challenging.

     Now the question is do you incorporate these new techniques (like stance) into your instruction of others or maintain the acknowledged NRA type basic skills for entry level students.
I think maintaining  the "basic skills for entry level" sides with the walk before you can run"  philosophy but is like "learning to print before learning to write" (not like anybody writes anymore) where you throw away what you've learned to learn it a new way.
    Thoughts/Opinions ? :-\

For Beginners, I mostly teach the actual NRA Pistol classes so I stick with their techniques for new students.  It works with a wide variety of students.  Showing extra techniques in for new students can confuse them.  Better to do a separate class on intermediate/advanced techniques later or through coaching.

For the Safety thing, it took me about 15 minutes of practice to get it down and it's natural for me now.  Although it doesn't take any added time (at least on a AR15),  I still don't see the benefit of doing it.  I figure someone spent a lot of time figuring it out and it's becomming more common, so I just do it.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on May 16, 2018, 04:55:30 PM
For Beginners, I mostly teach the actual NRA Pistol classes so I stick with their techniques for new students.  It works with a wide variety of students.  Showing extra techniques in for new students can confuse them.  Better to do a separate class on intermediate/advanced techniques later or through coaching.

For the Safety thing, it took me about 15 minutes of practice to get it down and it's natural for me now.  Although it doesn't take any added time (at least on a AR15),  I still don't see the benefit of doing it.  I figure someone spent a lot of time figuring it out and it's becomming more common, so I just do it.
I spent a good part of a carbine class trying the safety thing. I could do it if I went in a deliberate pace. When I started ramping things up, would skip that step or put on safe way late. Will definitely give it more of a try. I had a good conversation on the whys and such. I can see some of the whys.  However, just have to give it some time.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Surf on May 28, 2018, 11:43:33 PM
As for any technique it is easier to teach any new student whatever you deem is correct via the instructors own training and experience.  It is more difficult for those who already have something else ingrained to un-learn and re-learn something new.

As noted in a recent 2 day carbine class a brand new lady shooter, never firing a rifle before had the steps down that any "advanced" shooter might use.  Was she still in the heavy cognitive thought phase?  Absolutely, but she performed well and was way ahead of the curve for her level of 2 days of training.  Tuck, safety, whatever, it was she knows as normal because she was trained that way from the start.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on May 30, 2018, 03:46:26 PM
As for any technique it is easier to teach any new student whatever you deem is correct via the instructors own training and experience.  It is more difficult for those who already have something else ingrained to un-learn and re-learn something new.

As noted in a recent 2 day carbine class a brand new lady shooter, never firing a rifle before had the steps down that any "advanced" shooter might use.  Was she still in the heavy cognitive thought phase?  Absolutely, but she performed well and was way ahead of the curve for her level of 2 days of training.  Tuck, safety, whatever, it was she knows as normal because she was trained that way from the start.
I can say that the un-learn process is harder than the learn in many regards. Sometimes I wonder if my occasional breaks from shooting can be “good” in a way. When I get back into things, hopefully easier to incorporate the new things. I mean I don’t want to have breaks in shooting and let skills perish/diminish, but life happens at times and maybe can be put to some good.

I’ve found that brand new lady shooters often pick up things much faster than adult males. I often remind myself that while I have been through a good amount of quality training, that to keep an open mind whenever I attend a class, at any level. And said lady shooter was quite impressive.  Seeing her progression through the two days was eye opening in many ways for me, particularly the process and progression of lessons.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on May 30, 2018, 03:50:23 PM
Another things that I’ve learned is that in addition to her class costs, I usually have to factor in the “gear fund”. Sometimes I update equipment or have to replace worn gear. Then after class, I usually have a list of things to buy or to try. I’ve refined my gear setups over the years, but I am always open to newer or improved gear, or things that I’ve found just don’t work for me anymore.

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Wake27 on May 31, 2018, 08:48:46 PM
One thing that's frustrating about the un-learning is how easy it is to pick something up that you later have to get rid of. I noticed from a video in one of the last classes that because we do so much shooting from the low ready, I actually dipped the muzzle after doing a reload in the workspace and then had to bring it back up. I've caught myself doing that again too, felt like an idiot because of the rookie wasted movement. Provides more justification to work from a high port gun, but a lot of places and organizations aren't fans of that.

The fund thing is hard too. Typically when I'm not shooting as often, I spend a lot more money and new stuff to try. If I have easy access to a range or frequent classes, then I only care about the fees and ammo that I need to be able to practice.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 01, 2018, 01:59:19 PM
One thing that's frustrating about the un-learning is how easy it is to pick something up that you later have to get rid of. I noticed from a video in one of the last classes that because we do so much shooting from the low ready, I actually dipped the muzzle after doing a reload in the workspace and then had to bring it back up. I've caught myself doing that again too, felt like an idiot because of the rookie wasted movement. Provides more justification to work from a high port gun, but a lot of places and organizations aren't fans of that.

The fund thing is hard too. Typically when I'm not shooting as often, I spend a lot more money and new stuff to try. If I have easy access to a range or frequent classes, then I only care about the fees and ammo that I need to be able to practice.
Catching yourself when old habits creep in or when you do something not as you envisioned is humbling. When I used to compete more, I used to try to video my stages. At first, I cringe when I notice things, but then I eat my pride and just note them on things to work on and improve. Seeing yourself on video can be quite humbling.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 15, 2018, 12:47:21 PM
Super fun day on the range yesterday with a great bunch of like-minded folks.  Based on the forecast from Friday night, I was anticipating having to deal with thunderstorms.  Thankfully, the storms stayed away, but it ended up being a super hot and humid day.  I was pretty wiped out after the class. 

Some takeaways from the class:

1) It's always good to "test" out your equipment, including your gear, in shooting courses.  Not really a new point, but something I noticed many times yesterday.  I had moved around some stuff on my belt and found that I need to move one pouch as it would dig into my stomach here and there.  Many other shooters also had new rifles or gear and you are able to learn more about them in that environment than one would at Koko Head. 

2) When training new techniques, especially ones that require "unlearning", need to spend time doing the steps deliberately and then gradually speed up.  Even then, sometimes the old habits creep back in, but something that I have to force myself to slow down and do things deliberately as opposed to trying to speed my way through it.  When I try to speed my way through things, I often revert back to old habits or fumble it as a sort of "in between".  Slowly breaking old habits and building new ones.  But just have to give it time. 

3) Was able to try new things from other shooters' guns as well on my own gun.  Love the Geissele trigger.  The BCM grip with more vertical angle didn't really jump out at me either way.  Will likely stick with what I've got for now.  Didn't get to give the ambi safety a fair shake, but I didn't really notice the lever on the right side when shooting.  I thought it would bother me, but didn't really notice when I was shooting. 

4) It's good to have video of yourself shooting.  You are able to see for yourself what you do and lots of times you don't realize what you're doing, or not doing.  An example from yesterday was keeping the gun in your workspace for things like loading, reloading, etc.  That is something that I noticed from when I shot IPSC more, that I thought I had the gun in my workspace during reloads, but many times the gun would end up much lower.  Something that many shooters yesterday didn't realize they were doing, especially when their focus was more on shooting the course of fire than the reload itself. 

5) The AFAB on my Colt has spoiled me some.  When I was shooting another AR to try the trigger, I noticed that the muzzle was jumping a lot more, and thus the dot was jumping around a lot more.  That gun had a BCM comp, which is closer to an A2, at least relative to the AFAB.  Had to be more disciplined with body mechanics to keep the dot from jumping around as much.  Then when I went back to my gun with the AFAB, it was like the dot barely moved. 

6) I've recently been shooting with an EoTech EXPS 3-0.  Before that, I had been shooting guns with either an Aimpoint CompM4s or T-1.  When I was shooting guns with the T-1, I found that the smaller viewing window bothered me some when we were doing shooting drills that require transitioning between targets.  I had never noticed that before, so I assume it was because my eyes were now used to the EoTech.  Something I'll have to keep in mind for future range days. 

7) Need more time with the AK.  More on that in the other thread. . .

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on July 16, 2018, 11:16:48 AM
Super fun day on the range yesterday with a great bunch of like-minded folks.  Based on the forecast from Friday night, I was anticipating having to deal with thunderstorms.  Thankfully, the storms stayed away, but it ended up being a super hot and humid day.  I was pretty wiped out after the class.
 AWESOME GROUP !  :thumbsup:
Next morning was topsy-turvy, hot tub and Tylenol

Some takeaways from the class:

1) It's always good to "test" out your equipment, including your gear, in shooting courses.  Not really a new point, but something I noticed many times yesterday.  I had moved around some stuff on my belt and found that I need to move one pouch as it would dig into my stomach here and there.  Many other shooters also had new rifles or gear and you are able to learn more about them in that environment than one would at Koko Head. 
Made a slight change on belt this time and found a nice bruise on my stomach, probably because AR mag was moved more in front of me

2) When training new techniques, especially ones that require "unlearning", need to spend time doing the steps deliberately and then gradually speed up.  Even then, sometimes the old habits creep back in, but something that I have to force myself to slow down and do things deliberately as opposed to trying to speed my way through it.  When I try to speed my way through things, I often revert back to old habits or fumble it as a sort of "in between".  Slowly breaking old habits and building new ones.  But just have to give it time. 
Ditto

3) Was able to try new things from other shooters' guns as well on my own gun.  Love the Geissele trigger.  The BCM grip with more vertical angle didn't really jump out at me either way.  Will likely stick with what I've got for now.  Didn't get to give the ambi safety a fair shake, but I didn't really notice the lever on the right side when shooting.  I thought it would bother me, but didn't really notice when I was shooting. 
Installed my ambi safety at a the 45 degree position and solved my manipulation issue (when I remembered to use it as per new protocol  :crazy:)

4) It's good to have video of yourself shooting.  You are able to see for yourself what you do and lots of times you don't realize what you're doing, or not doing.  An example from yesterday was keeping the gun in your workspace for things like loading, reloading, etc.  That is something that I noticed from when I shot IPSC more, that I thought I had the gun in my workspace during reloads, but many times the gun would end up much lower.  Something that many shooters yesterday didn't realize they were doing, especially when their focus was more on shooting the course of fire than the reload itself. 
Hell, I had a hard time keeping target round count after reload !  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

5) The AFAB on my Colt has spoiled me some.  When I was shooting another AR to try the trigger, I noticed that the muzzle was jumping a lot more, and thus the dot was jumping around a lot more.  That gun had a BCM comp, which is closer to an A2, at least relative to the AFAB.  Had to be more disciplined with body mechanics to keep the dot from jumping around as much.  Then when I went back to my gun with the AFAB, it was like the dot barely moved. 
Yup, noticed that too when I had to switch to back up with out AFAB.  :(

6) I've recently been shooting with an EoTech EXPS 3-0.  Before that, I had been shooting guns with either an Aimpoint CompM4s or T-1.  When I was shooting guns with the T-1, I found that the smaller viewing window bothered me some when we were doing shooting drills that require transitioning between targets.  I had never noticed that before, so I assume it was because my eyes were now used to the EoTech.  Something I'll have to keep in mind for future range days. 

7) Need more time with the AK.  More on that in the other thread. . .

    I had malfunction issue regarding poor ejection/stove piping.
Fortunately I was "2 is 1" and had a back up (but probably should have took up the offer of several other classmates to try their cool guns  :wave:)
It was a new barrel with less than 200 rounds going into class before rapid fire and heating and when I hit about 350 rounds and HOT barrel at class, started having issues
    Thought it may be a gas leak issue due to recent installation but when cleaned, found gas rings "iffy" (Knew that before the class, idiot  :grrr:) but also noticed ejector was worn down to at least 50% of new.
Replaced both and will test again.
Should have replace one at a time to verify problem but "ain't nobody got no time fo dat".
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 16, 2018, 12:11:01 PM

    I had malfunction issue regarding poor ejection/stove piping.
Fortunately I was "2 is 1" and had a back up (but probably should have took up the offer of several other classmates to try their cool guns  :wave:)
It was a new barrel with less than 200 rounds going into class before rapid fire and heating and when I hit about 350 rounds and HOT barrel at class, started having issues
    Thought it may be a gas leak issue due to recent installation but when cleaned, found gas rings "iffy" (Knew that before the class, idiot  :grrr:) but also noticed ejector was worn down to at least 50% of new.
Replaced both and will test again.
Should have replace one at a time to verify problem but "ain't nobody got no time fo dat".
I noticed that you were having some issues.  I overheard one of your buddies commenting on your "ejection dribbling out" :crazy:  ;D

I had a second AR yesterday just in case.  I had the issue with the AFAB working it's way loose and the bolt catch in the last class.  Last thing I want is to be fighting my equipment in a class like this.  As mentioned in previous posts, my backup guns have saved many other shooters in previous classes.  Always good to have a backup for sure.  :thumbsup:

You noticed the ejector was worn down?  I would have never thought to check that part out.  There are certain parts that I check for wear here and there and the gas rings is one quick check when cleaning.  I have also been trying to replace certain parts after certain round counts as preventative maintenance.  Hopefully you've gotten the issues ironed out. 

I was cramping a little after the class and the next day, but otherwise wasn't bad.  I was definitely smoked after the class though.  It's been a while since I was that tired feeling after a day of shooting.  Shows how much that was crammed into one day. 

I'll try the 45 degree safety eventually.  I too found myself not working the safety in the new protocol.  It was less often than before though, so getting there.  But yeah, working that random mag in there was awesome.  Helped me start getting better "in tune" with the gun as well as more automatic with the reload.  Still caught myself reverting to some old habits here and there, but less. 

No big equipment wants after this class.  I guess since two items were ordered before the class have yet to arrive.  Gotta start looking to replenish the ammo stores though. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 16, 2018, 01:09:00 PM
Never thought about bringing 2 guns to  a class.  This way if 1 goes down, you got a back up.  2 is 1 is right.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 16, 2018, 01:40:22 PM
Never thought about bringing 2 guns to  a class.  This way if 1 goes down, you got a back up.  2 is 1 is right.
I would say maybe 20% of folks will bring backup guns to class.  I wouldn't say its a must, but definitely good to have, assuming you have a backup.  I also understand that having a backup AR may not be feasible for some. 

When I was preparing for taking classes on the mainland, having backups was highly recommended.  If your gun goes down, you're SOL.  Even if you start having problems, the backup gun will allow having it addressed in one of the breaks. 

For some local classes, I haven't brought a backup.  I did yesterday since this particular gun had issues with it in a previous class.  Otherwise, I might have gone without. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on July 16, 2018, 01:51:31 PM
When I plan to attend a class, I plan for backups.  Ill bring a 2nd gun, or see if I can borrow from someone, or rent one from the school if needed.  Same goes for ammo.  Ill look for stores or FFLs in the area or mail order it.  Ill usually bring a days worth of ammo on the plane just in case.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 16, 2018, 01:59:22 PM
The wife and I signed up for the HDF pistol class this month.  I lost her bullet proof firing pin that I bought for the CZ P10C.  Nothing wrong with the factory one, just some report it breaking (MIM metal, same that glock uses).  But I forgot where I put the bullet proof firing pin.  So I'm going to bring her M&P9C and holster as backup.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 16, 2018, 02:31:26 PM
For mainland classes, I have backup guns and well as some other stuff.  It does make it tougher to travel though for the additional baggage fees and stuff you have to lug around. 

Good point on ammo.  I've been lucky to have good contacts that have helped me on ammo for all the classes that I've traveled to.  I usually try to find local shops and see what they have just in case. 

I also recommend having your guns somewhat "verified" prior to a class.  You're probably going to shoot the gun more than it has before in classes, but I've seen some people brand new guns or new stuff like optics they just put on and didn't have any idea of zero.  Most classes that I've been to will have some time to verify zero, but you don't really want to be zeroing your gun or optic for the first time.  It wastes ammo and more importantly class time.  Ideally you'd like to have shot the guns a decent amount to verify proper function and stuff. 

I have never really brought backup gear like holsters and stuff, but in local classes, I've found that it can help.  Especially more basic level classes as some might not have decent gear and they end up fighting them.  I mean you gotta use what you brought, but sometimes it can be helpful to have more purpose driven gear.  Sadly, I have to admit that I've shown up to IPSC events without a holster and luckily I was able to borrow one. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on July 16, 2018, 04:36:35 PM
I noticed that you were having some issues.  I overheard one of your buddies commenting on your "ejection dribbling out" :crazy:  ;D

    Well, at least it still shoots.  ;)

   Tried to measure the difference between worn ejector and new but they are 2 different makes and  therefore not truly comparable, but there is at  least  .02 difference as far as I can meausre.
Unable to photo as I would probably need  a macro lens but the difference is obvious enough  to see by the naked eye, super obvious with a magnifying glass.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 16, 2018, 04:44:49 PM
Tried to measure the difference between worn ejector and new but they are 2 different makes and  therefore not truly comparable, but there is at  least  .02 difference as far as I can meausre.
Unable to photo as I would probably need  a macro lens but the difference is obvious enough  to see by the naked eye, super obvious with a magnifying glass.
Nah. No need. Just wondering how one would measure it. I’ve never removed the ejector. Looks like a royal PITA if you don’t have that specific tool for it.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on July 17, 2018, 06:07:50 AM
Nah. No need. Just wondering how one would measure it. I’ve never removed the ejector. Looks like a royal PITA if you don’t have that specific tool for it.
There's a tool for that ?  :wacko:
Getting it off is easy, lining up for reassemble is a PITA.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 17, 2018, 07:03:35 AM
There's a tool for that ?  :wacko:
Getting it off is easy, lining up for reassemble is a PITA.
There are tools for everything.   ;D

I can't find it now, but it's a simpler version of what's in this video.  Basically it holds the ejector down and allows you to have two hands free for the hammer and punch. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUj-tKW5Eh0

Brownells has a bunch of tools, but they aren't cheap.  I've never messed with the bolt.  I have gauges to check headspace, but I've never really used them.  A while back, I was told that as long as you have an upper and BCG/bolt from quality manufacturers, you should be good.  When I got my PSA upper (I would say decent quality manufacturer) and a BCG that I got from a group buy from an unknown manufacturer, but supposed to be good components, it worked out ok.  Should I have checked headspace? Probably should have to be safe.  That thought was in the back of my mind first time I shot the gun. 

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 17, 2018, 07:14:44 AM
Another part of the class was discussion of sling use and fitting.  I had been looking into trying different sling setups for this class and actually had a new sling ready to test out for the AR and had the same sling on the AK. 

Prior to this class, I had been using the Redback One sling, which I do like and have used for many years.  That said, I am open to trying other things.  The RB1 sling is two point and is meant to wear as a necklace, while many slings are meant to primarily be worn with "arm in".  Was watching some videos of folks explain the use and fitting of their slings.  Frank Proctor, Kyle Lamb, etc.  My first sling for classes was the Vickers VCAS padded.  I think it's a good sling, but the padding messed me up.  An opinion that another shooter in the class shared.  I know many like them, but just not for me.

The class had a short discussion on sling fitting, which isn't covered a lot.  Unfortunately, I got caught up with shooting and wasn't able to try my second sling, which is the Ferro Concepts Slingster, with my AR.  I tried it on my AK, but I didn't shoot my AK enough to evaluate it that well. 

Anyways, another example of needing to try for oneself.  What sling setup that felt fine dry firing can impact your shooting, which is what I learned about the VCAS in a previous carbine course. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 17, 2018, 11:32:50 AM
I got 2 slings for my AR.  1 single point that attached via clip to the end plate (Magpul).  And another that is traditional attachment by Blue Force Gear padded vickers.  This one requires attachment to the buttstock and on my QD sling point on by Gesielle handguard.

So for home defense, the single point will be used due to quickness.  But for classes that require, the BFG one.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 17, 2018, 12:03:12 PM
I have a Gear Sector single point, but never really used it.  It was my intent to try both, but in that time, started using the two point and got used to it.  So I see the benefits of single points?  Sure, but not really what I was looking for. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on July 17, 2018, 01:01:52 PM
So for home defense, the single point will be used due to quickness.  But for classes that require, the BFG one.
Thats odd I thought youd do it the reverse way.  2 points are great if you have to carry stuff, jump over walls, and move but are slower to use.  Better for real life stuff.

1 point is good if you are static and are fast to use, which is good for training courses and competition.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Drakiir84 on July 17, 2018, 01:35:14 PM
Each of my rifles have a savvy sniper sling.  Why settle with single point or 2 point when you can have both ;-)
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on July 17, 2018, 02:09:58 PM
There are tools for everything.   ;D

I can't find it now, but it's a simpler version of what's in this video.  Basically it holds the ejector down and allows you to have two hands free for the hammer and punch. 

Brownells has a bunch of tools, but they aren't cheap.  I've never messed with the bolt.  I have gauges to check headspace, but I've never really used them.  A while back, I was told that as long as you have an upper and BCG/bolt from quality manufacturers, you should be good.  When I got my PSA upper (I would say decent quality manufacturer) and a BCG that I got from a group buy from an unknown manufacturer, but supposed to be good components, it worked out ok.  Should I have checked headspace? Probably should have to be safe.  That thought was in the back of my mind first time I shot the gun.

Glock punch tool works fine for pin removal and for lining up holes for pin reinsertion.
I just use a cloth covered pliers to squeeze extractor to bolt assembly to ease initial pin insertion.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 19, 2018, 08:12:42 AM
Glock punch tool works fine for pin removal and for lining up holes for pin reinsertion.
I just use a cloth covered pliers to squeeze extractor to bolt assembly to ease initial pin insertion.  :thumbsup:
Never tried to remove the ejector pin.  On the bolt that I was considering checking the headspace on, I could barely get the ejector to fully depress let alone hold it down with one hand to use my other hand to try to get the pin out.  That said, maybe your ejector springs are shot.  I know the ejector that's with my AR with the round count a little more than 7,000 rounds is softer than the ones with round counts less than 1000.  I was considering changing the bolt on that gun when it got to 10,000 rounds, but if it's not malfunctioning, I might just let it do until it starts giving me problems.  Just to see what happens since that gun isn't my primary. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on July 19, 2018, 10:23:07 AM
Never tried to remove the ejector pin.  On the bolt that I was considering checking the headspace on, I could barely get the ejector to fully depress let alone hold it down with one hand to use my other hand to try to get the pin out.  That said, maybe your ejector springs are shot.

I can remove the pin by hand and punch but need to compress to re-install


 I know the ejector that's with my AR with the round count a little more than 7,000 rounds is softer than the ones with round counts less than 1000.  I was considering changing the bolt on that gun when it got to 10,000 rounds, but if it's not malfunctioning, I might just let it do until it starts giving me problems.

That's what I said about my gas rings prior to last class.  ;D    :crazy:  :(  :'(

 Just to see what happens since that gun isn't my primary.     :wtf:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 20, 2018, 10:02:56 AM

That's what I said about my gas rings prior to last class.


Not many folks shoot their guns enough to really matter, but something I try to keep an eye on.  I try to track round counts on my guns similar to a car odometer.  To get an idea of when preventative maintenance needs to be done.  But I also want other "beater" guns to test limitations.  Not necessarily torture tests, but I wouldn't mind doing so if I had the money for the ammo. 

Did you test the gas rings by the test where you put the BCG on the bolt and if the carrier slides all the way down then the gas rings are likely shot?  I've never changed the gas rings before.  They look like a PITA. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on July 20, 2018, 10:57:31 AM
Not many folks shoot their guns enough to really matter, but something I try to keep an eye on.  I try to track round counts on my guns similar to a car odometer.  To get an idea of when preventative maintenance needs to be done.  But I also want other "beater" guns to test limitations.  Not necessarily torture tests, but I wouldn't mind doing so if I had the money for the ammo. 

Did you test the gas rings by the test where you put the BCG on the bolt and if the carrier slides all the way down then the gas rings are likely shot?  I've never changed the gas rings before.  They look like a PITA.

   Gas rings wear out so they are a "regular maintenance" component,
Their cheap and easy to R & R , and yes making sure the rings separations are not aligned DOES matter.
If they are all aligned, gas will escape and weaken throwback.
We keep a set in our grips along with x-tra roll pin, firing pin, cotter pin and ejector.
   
   I do not keep an accurate round count other than 'around blank thousand"

I found this vid which is pretty much my SOP.

https://youtu.be/BpkzWhoaK04
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 20, 2018, 11:07:08 AM
   Gas rings wear out so they are a "regular maintenance" component.
Their cheap and easy to R & R , and yes making sure the rings separations are not aligned DOES matter.
(If they are all aligned, gas will escape and weaken throwback.



I found this vid which is pretty much my SOP.

Yeah, I consider the gas rings a "regular maintenance" component.  Similar with other items like many springs.  Specifically for the BCG, the extractor spring and ejector spring.  Just haven't changed them out yet.  My older higher round count gun, I ended up selling off, so my current guns are all well below 5,000.  I do have an extra bolt and extra BCGs, but not the springs.  I've been meaning to get them since I've been shooting more lately, but just haven't done it.

I'm surprised that they guy's gas rings failed the BCG test at 3,000 rounds.  I think my highest round count AR and BCG is now close to 3,000.  I'd have to check.  I wasn't planning on doing anything until at least 5,000 rounds. 

Gas ring alignment?  Haha.  So many folks arguing about it.  I don't particularly pay attention to them, but I've heard of some OCD folks to tend to align them when cleaning their guns.   ???
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on July 21, 2018, 07:01:52 AM

Gas ring alignment?  Haha.  So many folks arguing about it.  I don't particularly pay attention to them, but I've heard of some OCD folks to tend to align them when cleaning their guns.   ???

   Don't think it's OCD, just the correct way to do things.
I double check clear  which is repetitively doing the same thing so is that a sign of OCD ?  :wacko:
   
   There's a reason there's 3 of them.
If all the gaps lined up, gas would pass through the gaps reducing pressure to push the carrier/bolt back.

   Easy to find out if it matters. Just line up all three gaps, place in carrier and shoot.
If you get poor/ ejection and or lack of bolt lock back, it matters.   :geekdanc:
   Will be running the AR today to see if replacement of parts (rings and ejector) solved "dribbling" issue.  :shake: :shake: :shake:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 21, 2018, 07:16:37 AM
   Don't think it's OCD, just the correct way to do things.
I double check clear  which is repetitively doing the same thing so is that a sign of OCD ?  :wacko:
   
   There's a reason there's 3 of them.
If all the gaps lined up, gas would pass through the gaps reducing pressure to push the carrier/bolt back.

   Easy to find out if it matters. Just line up all three gaps, place in carrier and shoot.
If you get poor/ ejection and or lack of bolt lock back, it matters.   :geekdanc:
   Will be running the AR today to see if replacement of parts (rings and ejector) solved "dribbling" issue.  :shake: :shake: :shake:
I meant folks that take the time to make sure they are aligned. Like folks who when they gamble align the stripes in their chips.

I’m with ya on the right way to do things. But line anything, there are extremes. As for checking if guns are safe, I’m one to check and recheck. For the gas rings, I never thought to check or wondered. But now that your brought it up, I might test it next time i shoot.

Anyways, hope you got your weak dribbling problem figured out.  :P
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on July 22, 2018, 10:50:46 AM
I meant folks that take the time to make sure they are aligned. Like folks who when they gamble align the stripes in their chips.

Oh-Oh :oops:

I’m with ya on the right way to do things. But line anything, there are extremes. As for checking if guns are safe, I’m one to check and recheck. For the gas rings, I never thought to check or wondered. But now that your brought it up, I might test it next time i shoot.

Anyways, hope you got your weak dribbling problem figured out.  :P
    Yup, buddies said I'm getting good ejection now, but still a little early (still 1:00).  :(
The guy next to appreciated not being blasted in the face with my ejections.  :shake: :shake: :shake:

  Maybe I'll try changing the ejector and ejector pin.
Would make sense that they would wear out in timely fashion with ejector.
 :shaka:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 22, 2018, 12:58:10 PM
    Yup, buddies said I'm getting good ejection now, but still a little early (still 1:00).  :(
The guy next to appreciated not being blasted in the face with my ejections.  :shake: :shake: :shake:

  Maybe I'll try changing the ejector and ejector pin.
Would make sense that they would wear out in timely fashion with ejector.
 :shaka:
Early? Is the casing hitting the brass deflector?   

I used to pay close attention to ejection and my goal was to get consistent ejection in the 3-4:30 range. Would mess with buffers, springs, etc to do so. Now, as long as the gun is functioning well, I don’t pay that much attention to ejection location. I do notice the pattern for every gun and do notice changes when going from “full powered” 5.56 ammo to the lower powered stuff. I want my guns to function well on both. But I also want to keep and eye if I start noticing changes with the same ammo as a sign of wear. Hopefully replacement of smaller and inexpensive parts will get you to where you want to be.

One of my other guns had super consistent ejection to about 3 o’clock. I was pelting my buddy who was shooting on the line next to me. In some videos, could hear him swearing as he got “zapped” by my hot brass.  He got a couple blisters when the brass got caught in specific locations. Oops.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on August 12, 2018, 12:12:54 PM
I finally got this grip exerciser thingy.  I figure it'll help with grip, improve double action revolver trigger pull in both hands, and help with weapons retention in a fight.

I keep it around and do a 10 slow reps a few times a day.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180812/82e48553468fcecb15a7c8f2f05db99d.jpg)

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 12, 2018, 12:30:05 PM
I finally got this grip exerciser thingy.  I figure it'll help with grip, improve double action revolver trigger pull in both hands, and help with weapons retention in a fight.

I keep it around and do a 10 slow reps a few times a day.

SNIP

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk
I have a dynabee thing. Haven’t used it in a while tho.

Another old school but super effective one is an 18-24” section of broom stick, some rope and some weight. Like 10 lbs is good to start. Tie rope to middle of stick and other end to weight with about 5 feet is slack. Wind the broom stick to lift the weight and go back down. So slowly to make it more challenging. Super effective to build grip. Used to have to do that for Judo a lot.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on August 14, 2018, 06:37:25 PM
I've been using the prohands for about a week and it makes a huge difference in trigger pull.  My 686 revolver trigger is about 10 or 11lbs, and it feels like it's 5lbs now and I have a lot more control too.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 15, 2018, 06:53:49 AM
Grip strength helps you with a number of things in life (  :o ) as well as in shooting, at least I've found.  For me, I never thought about grip strength with respect to trigger pull weights, but I guess it could help for the longer DA pulls.  I mostly felt the difference after a long day of shooting.  In times where I slacked off on working on grip strength, I felt way more fatigued at the end of the day and even had some cramping and hand trembling going on.  When I got back into working on grip strength, those issues mostly went away.  Yeah, if I haven't shot in a while and I shoot a match or a class with say 300-400 rounds, I'm gonna still feel it, but seems like my grip and arms are less "shot out" if I've been working on grip strength.  Which unfortunately I haven't been working on it recently. . . thanks for the reminder. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 15, 2018, 09:08:02 AM
Thats odd I thought youd do it the reverse way.  2 points are great if you have to carry stuff, jump over walls, and move but are slower to use.  Better for real life stuff.

1 point is good if you are static and are fast to use, which is good for training courses and competition.

I don't got a 2nd QD swivel.  So attaching the sling to the buttstock means I have to wrap and unwrap all the time.  The single point has a clamp on it.  No sense buying a 2nd swivel either, I have yet to use my sling outside of my home.  Even at carbine HDF classes, no need.

Maybe if I see one for cheap at the gun show next month I'll consider it.

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on March 04, 2019, 08:58:57 AM
Shot a handgun course over the weekend with a Glock 17 with Trijicon RMR.  This was in a handgun course level that I had taken before with this group, so I felt it was a good environment to test out the handgun with RMR set up.  That and it's ALWAYS good to work on fundamentals, especially since I haven't shot that much in the past year. 

Going in, I was wondering how I would pick up the dot on the draw as well as in between shots.  Got to experience that and came away with things I can work on with the instructors as well as things that I'd like to work on in general.  The two instructors also had differing experience on handgun with red dots, which I found helpful to have a range of perspectives. 

Some highlights:
1) Sloppiness and bad habits that I have with trigger control was apparent in the first live fire exercise (one hole drill).  Something that I am aware of and actually spend quite a bit of time doing ball and dummy drills.  This tendency seems to creep in both when I haven't shot in a while and after going through periods where I've been shooting quite a bit, but not that much on paper.  While I was happy that I was able to clean things up for the second pass at the one hole drill and subsequent drills, always humbling to see that your fundamentals could use some work.  While I was actually "ok" with the first group that I shot, the instructor noticed it.  I also think that maybe shooting with the dot allowed me to relax a bit one some of the drills where I am normally concentrating on the front sight, I think things tended to "wander".

2) I definitely noticed the "dot twitch", where the dot always seems to be moving where the front sight seems stable.  Having shot this level course before, I was trying to push myself to "aim smaller".  One target had a logo for an aim point in the middle of a target circle, but that logo also had smaller points that allowed a smaller POA.  That's where I was really noticing the dot jump.  I had noticed it before and read about it some.  Would discuss briefly with both instructors.  Not a bad thing, but something I noticed.  In some of the drills where I was pushing for more speed, I had to push "not letting the dot hover" and just pick a "good enough" and go. 

3) Picking up the dot in between shots is something I definitely noticed and something I think I can clean up with shooting more regularly.  The cadence drills certainly helped to see that and I think those will help that moving forward.  But on another drill that called for multiple shots and I was trying to push it, the instructor commented on how I didn't seem to be pushing it enough since my target was still relatively clean.  I found that I was waiting on the dot in some cases.  I should be shooting this gun flat enough that I thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but definitely something I'll have to work on. 

4) Gun manipulations with the red dot is a little different.  Actually easier in one case in one method that one of the instructors recommended and I see it coming into play more with malfunction clearance.

5) There is a definite learning curve with the red dot for me.  Something I'll have to spend time on and think about if I really want to stick with it.  I think so, but I just hope to get in more range time with it in order to give it a fair shake.

Overall, it was a SUPER fun day on the range.  Always fun shooting with this group.  It was a repeat for me, so it was great to see some familiar faces that were taking the class again, which I think is always great.  I'd personally would shoot with this group on any level class that they offer as I always end the day having improved and found things that I need to improve.  It was also great to see a bunch of new faces with in shooting classes for the first time.  One was an AWESOME shooter.  I was shooting next to him all day, but in different relays.  While it's not a competition, I can honestly say that that pushed me to focus more.  I was also shooting next two a guy I had shot with in a carbine class before with this group.  He's a really good shooter too, and there was definitely some friendly competition going on.  All good fun and great to see folks putting in the time to get training and having a really good time in doing so. 

No gear changes or wants after the course, which is unusual for me.  Just need more ammo now.   ;D

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Surf on March 06, 2019, 04:51:11 PM
Shot a handgun course over the weekend with a Glock 17 with Trijicon RMR.  This was in a handgun course level that I had taken before with this group, so I felt it was a good environment to test out the handgun with RMR set up.  That and it's ALWAYS good to work on fundamentals, especially since I haven't shot that much in the past year. 

Going in, I was wondering how I would pick up the dot on the draw as well as in between shots.  Got to experience that and came away with things I can work on with the instructors as well as things that I'd like to work on in general.  The two instructors also had differing experience on handgun with red dots, which I found helpful to have a range of perspectives. 

Some highlights:
1) Sloppiness and bad habits that I have with trigger control was apparent in the first live fire exercise (one hole drill).  Something that I am aware of and actually spend quite a bit of time doing ball and dummy drills.  This tendency seems to creep in both when I haven't shot in a while and after going through periods where I've been shooting quite a bit, but not that much on paper.  While I was happy that I was able to clean things up for the second pass at the one hole drill and subsequent drills, always humbling to see that your fundamentals could use some work.  While I was actually "ok" with the first group that I shot, the instructor noticed it.  I also think that maybe shooting with the dot allowed me to relax a bit one some of the drills where I am normally concentrating on the front sight, I think things tended to "wander".

2) I definitely noticed the "dot twitch", where the dot always seems to be moving where the front sight seems stable.  Having shot this level course before, I was trying to push myself to "aim smaller".  One target had a logo for an aim point in the middle of a target circle, but that logo also had smaller points that allowed a smaller POA.  That's where I was really noticing the dot jump.  I had noticed it before and read about it some.  Would discuss briefly with both instructors.  Not a bad thing, but something I noticed.  In some of the drills where I was pushing for more speed, I had to push "not letting the dot hover" and just pick a "good enough" and go. 

3) Picking up the dot in between shots is something I definitely noticed and something I think I can clean up with shooting more regularly.  The cadence drills certainly helped to see that and I think those will help that moving forward.  But on another drill that called for multiple shots and I was trying to push it, the instructor commented on how I didn't seem to be pushing it enough since my target was still relatively clean.  I found that I was waiting on the dot in some cases.  I should be shooting this gun flat enough that I thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but definitely something I'll have to work on. 

4) Gun manipulations with the red dot is a little different.  Actually easier in one case in one method that one of the instructors recommended and I see it coming into play more with malfunction clearance.

5) There is a definite learning curve with the red dot for me.  Something I'll have to spend time on and think about if I really want to stick with it.  I think so, but I just hope to get in more range time with it in order to give it a fair shake.

Overall, it was a SUPER fun day on the range.  Always fun shooting with this group.  It was a repeat for me, so it was great to see some familiar faces that were taking the class again, which I think is always great.  I'd personally would shoot with this group on any level class that they offer as I always end the day having improved and found things that I need to improve.  It was also great to see a bunch of new faces with in shooting classes for the first time.  One was an AWESOME shooter.  I was shooting next to him all day, but in different relays.  While it's not a competition, I can honestly say that that pushed me to focus more.  I was also shooting next two a guy I had shot with in a carbine class before with this group.  He's a really good shooter too, and there was definitely some friendly competition going on.  All good fun and great to see folks putting in the time to get training and having a really good time in doing so. 

No gear changes or wants after the course, which is unusual for me.  Just need more ammo now.   ;D
Sounds like a great day!  Often people underestimate the benefits of getting back to a foundational or fundamentals type of course.  Obviously, the training group presenting the material is critical, but many people (especially males) don't realize the value in taking, or repeating a "Foundational" level course and often ego gets in the way of progression.  Great to see you putting in the work, and it shows!
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on March 07, 2019, 07:31:20 AM
Sounds like a great day!  Often people underestimate the benefits of getting back to a foundational or fundamentals type of course.  Obviously, the training group presenting the material is critical, but many people (especially males) don't realize the value in taking, or repeating a "Foundational" level course and often ego gets in the way of progression.  Great to see you putting in the work, and it shows!
It was an awesome day for sure!  The weather conditions made for an interesting and soggy day. . .    ;D

I've always been one to often go back to fundamentals (esp with shooting) and really appreciate instructors and training groups that both stress the importance of that as well as put in the work on those themselves.  Totally hear you on the ego thing.  I had a couple of buddies who I really wanted to take this course, but they felt that "foundational" wouldn't benefit them.  A couple of others had drill that weekend, but were down to go.  Hopefully I'll be able to get them to come out in the near future. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Surf on March 07, 2019, 10:40:15 PM
It was an awesome day for sure!  The weather conditions made for an interesting and soggy day. . .    ;D

I've always been one to often go back to fundamentals (esp with shooting) and really appreciate instructors and training groups that both stress the importance of that as well as put in the work on those themselves.  Totally hear you on the ego thing.  I had a couple of buddies who I really wanted to take this course, but they felt that "foundational" wouldn't benefit them.  A couple of others had drill that weekend, but were down to go.  Hopefully I'll be able to get them to come out in the near future.
As discussed, I get it, and in their defense, they have no knowledge behind this training groups concept and the training approach that they employ in the "Foundational" course that you took.  Conceptually the progression of training, drills and more importantly how the drills can be executed by the individual is not something we have seen anywhere from a "base" level course.

I have yet to see anyone's base level course be able to hold the attention and test any shooter skill level from newer shooter all the way through advanced shooter.  The concept was formulated by doing workups specifically for high-level shooters in select .mil and LE units pre-deployment.  It is dubbed "Extreme Fundamentals" and is one course in a series of Advanced Diagnostics courses that was developed by that training group, and concepts from those courses can be seen in the base level course. 

In fact, we have seen the same reaction as your buddies to the name "Extreme Fundamentals" by some pretty serious shooters.  Invariably guys are literally sweating bullets in that course, not because it is physically challenging, but mentally and emotionally challenging.  You finish that course as fatigued as any physically oriented course and guys can't wait to do it again or the next in the series.  Hopefully, they are able to offer that series here someday.

 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 25, 2019, 10:46:43 AM
Discussion on the carbine on safe during mag changes. Had gone through similar in a carbine class last spring and somewhat again in a skill builder. Haven’t worked on it since, but this article brought it back.

https://www.ballisticmag.com/2018/12/25/carbine-safety-mag-change/?fbclid=IwAR3K89mJzfUgU68HutVVgkMsJ_gh3eYwTSncH_9uiZ8kr5rrDj4c26ZbJVE&utm_campaign=meetedgar&utm_medium=social&utm_source=meetedgar.com
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Drakiir84 on June 25, 2019, 12:38:39 PM
Discussion on the carbine on safe during mag changes. Had gone through similar in a carbine class last spring and somewhat again in a skill builder. Haven’t worked on it since, but this article brought it back.

https://www.ballisticmag.com/2018/12/25/carbine-safety-mag-change/?fbclid=IwAR3K89mJzfUgU68HutVVgkMsJ_gh3eYwTSncH_9uiZ8kr5rrDj4c26ZbJVE&utm_campaign=meetedgar&utm_medium=social&utm_source=meetedgar.com

As always, PMac is 100% right on. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 25, 2019, 12:49:33 PM
As always, PMac is 100% right on.
A friend in AZ took a course from him and he was trying really hard to convince me into joining him.  He agreed that the Scrambler was "very interesting".   ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 25, 2019, 12:52:43 PM
I'm surprised this is even a topic to discuss.  HDF carbine skill builders have taught me well.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 25, 2019, 04:16:46 PM
I'm surprised this is even a topic to discuss.  HDF carbine skill builders have taught me well.
You'd be surprised at what a lot of people don't know. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on June 25, 2019, 04:30:29 PM
You'd be surprised at what a lot of people don't know. . .

if you don't know, you betta aks somebody...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 25, 2019, 04:36:51 PM
if you don't know, you betta aks somebody...
If u know, u know bah!  ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 17, 2019, 12:15:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MxiuC4ZmAU&list=WL&index=198&t=0s

Excellent points on preparing for a training class.  Luckily, I sought out advice prior to my starting getting into classes and have received advice similar to much of what is mentioned in this video.  I've also witnessed much of what is mentioned as well. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 17, 2019, 12:33:00 PM
Good vid, I'll send it to my noob friend.

He just got his first gun, so I told him when he takes a HDF class when he's ready, #1 Sharpie.  #2 Ears open, mouth shut.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 17, 2019, 12:50:33 PM
Good vid, I'll send it to my noob friend.

He just got his first gun, so I told him when he takes a HDF class when he's ready, #1 Sharpie.  #2 Ears open, mouth shut.
And don’t be “that guy”. Has varying meaning, but one if the last HDF shoot (that I attended) was guy who the groups was always waiting on. You don’t see that are much in paid courses, but never want to be “that guy”.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on July 17, 2019, 12:54:08 PM
And don’t be “that guy”. Has varying meaning, but one if the last HDF shoot (that I attended) was guy who the groups was always waiting on. You don’t see that are much in paid courses, but never want to be “that guy”.

if you are looking around the class and you don't see "that guy", guess what?
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 17, 2019, 12:56:54 PM
if you are looking around the class and you don't see "that guy", guess what?

Burn :worship: :worship: :worship:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on July 17, 2019, 01:05:34 PM
Burn :worship: :worship: :worship:

heads
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 17, 2019, 01:12:06 PM
if you are looking around the class and you don't see "that guy", guess what?
Whatchu talkin’ bout Willis?
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on July 17, 2019, 01:36:21 PM
Whatchu talkin’ bout Willis?

focus
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 17, 2019, 02:39:45 PM
focus
Definitely noticed a few of them. One kept fiddling with their gear on the side and another didn’t grasp the concept of “load up your mags”. The marker example also came up.

You weren’t there, so you’re safe.  :P Injured reserve is always valid reason.  ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 08, 2019, 02:50:49 PM
Thats odd I thought youd do it the reverse way.  2 points are great if you have to carry stuff, jump over walls, and move but are slower to use.  Better for real life stuff.

1 point is good if you are static and are fast to use, which is good for training courses and competition.

The single point attaches in less than a second.  The Vickers has a QD on the rail, but needs to be wrapped around in the butt stock.  This takes way longer to set up

Interesting to read an old thread.  I noticed because I do a high ready when reloading, I get a blister on my middle finger due to the sling restricting the high ready angle.  Compared to when reloading with no sling, I can point the muzzle higher and tuck the butt stock more under the arm pit and the trigger guard doesn't rub on my middle finger.  The sling is a loose as it can be, but tight enough so when needed, the rifle doesn't hang low when pulled tight by the tab.  It's snug against the body so can run easier and not buss up the knees.

Could I buy a longer or different one, yes I could. But since I only use the sling once a year, it makes due for now.  And I can spend $$$ on other items.

I've learned a lot since 2018 and to read my comments, much of my thought process has changed.

Spoke to the wife and she wants to try this class.  Prob start with pistol.

Thanks for starting this thread.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on November 08, 2019, 03:16:59 PM
The single point attaches in less than a second.  The Vickers has a QD on the rail, but needs to be wrapped around in the butt stock.  This takes way longer to set up

They make versions with QD on both ends. You can also change the hardware. That said, think you’re approaching the issue with “interesting” priorities.

“Always an enabler, never a disabler”

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 11, 2019, 12:47:46 PM
They make versions with QD on both ends. You can also change the hardware. That said, think you’re approaching the issue with “interesting” priorities.

“Always an enabler, never a disabler”

My priorities might change after I take one of your classes. I would consider myself a noob still.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on November 17, 2019, 03:54:06 PM
Shot carbine course (skill builder) yesterday.  It was a very hot and humid day on the range.  It was overcast most of the day, but rain early and virtually NO breeze made it for a very humid day.  Of course it had to rain at this location and with this training group.  Almost tradition.   ;D 

Shot about 400 rounds rifle and some pistol mixed in.  There was opportunity to get more reps and rounds in, but I think it was a good round count for me.  I would say al quality training rounds.  We ended the day shooting steel, but time was short.  I definitely could have run a bunch more ammo shooting steel if we had more time. 

Shot my new BCM upper with LPVO.  It was the second time shooting this setup with the first being to zero.  Overall, the setup is excellent and the glass is awesome (for the price, it better be  ;D ).  I would say a decent first impression in a training environment.  No "wow, this is super awesome", but also not "meh, I'll stick with previous setups".  Will definitely be shooting this setup more, but this setup was also primarily for some specific reasons and not necessarily primary for the context of yesterday's class. 

Some highlights/notes:

1) Need more time with the LPVO, particularly tighter consistency with mounting the gun from various ready positions.  At 1x, it's decently forgiving on eye box and head position, but not nearly as forgiving as a 1x red dot (Aimpoint, EoTech, etc).  I expected this, but also different experiencing in training when there are some "stressors" added in. 

2) The LPVO setup is quite heavy.  I didn't think it was that much more than my primary setup with EoTech, but my arms were smoked by the end of the day.  There were series of strings of fire where my delts were on fire and actually started trembling.  Being out of shape/practice with shooting the AR like that was part of it, but a much younger shooter (who shoots pretty often) in my relay said similar.  I weighed both guns this morning and the LPVO setup is 9.8 lbs and my EoTech setup is 8.8 lbs.  I thought the weight difference was going to be more, but still 1 lbs is a decent amount.  I didn't have the light mounted, so the setup will only get heavier.  :(

3) The LPVO reticle seemed to help tighten up shot grouping.  At 1x, the center dot is easy to pick up, but the vertical line below the dot seemed to help tighten lateral dispersion.  Your eyes naturally picks ups on what level and or vertical as well as tries to align and/or center things.  I assume that helped.  I did notice after many shot strings that the lateral spread was pretty tight.  I was also playing around with using that portion of the reticle to help with holdovers as well. 

4) When we were doing shot strings on multiple targets, the LPVO seemed fine shooting both eyes open.  Or at least not much different in view from my EoTech.  However, I did notice that when arm fatigue set in, it affected my holds.  Seemed to get sloppy with more shots dipping low. 

5) I'm seeing the effects of "aging eyes".  When we were doing some rifle to pistol transitions, I noticed that the change in focal plane from the rifle to the pistol was lagging.  It was the first time I noticed it like that.  I've been fighting using reading glasses and have started in the last month or so.  We had a candid conversation about this in the even debrief.  I had been fighting using reading glasses or even using larger font on my phone.  Well, my aging eyes have caught up to me.

Some points to hopefully help maximize one's training time. 

6) Try your best to have your rifle setup tested before a class.  Last thing you want is to be fighting your gear when there is plenty for your mind to be absorbing.  Completely understand that sometimes there isn't enough time to do so for many.  Training is also a good time to iron out gear setups as well.  However, a malfunctioning gun will definitely hamper your day.  My new BCM upper performed flawlessly, but I did have a backup carbine ready to go if something happened.  Say I didn't mount the optic properly or anything else.  The only tweak I had to do was adjust the sling attachment on the rail to keep the sling away from my support hand.

7) Understand your zero as well as holds.  Or at least try to have a confirmed zero at known distance.  I had zeroed my LPVO at 50 yards, but the start of the day was dialing in the hold over.  Something that KHSC isn't setup well to test and see for yourself.  But there were also a couple of shooters who weren't quite dialed in on their zero.  Wasn't a big deal when shooting in the 5-10 yard range, but it did show up when we were shooting steel at "longer" distances.

Another fun day on the range with an awesome group of shooters.  Hopefully I'll start shooting more consistently on my own as well as with this training group.  I was quite sore last night and this morning.  Both my shoulders as well as other parts of my body.  But all well worth a great day on the range.   :geekdanc:

PS - Oh yeah, can't forget "FIREBALL!!!"  I think some were getting a tan from that brake.   :rofl:

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 17, 2019, 05:03:09 PM
I think the wife and i will def sign up for a pistol class 1st. Saw some vids of the type that class offers.

Gotta save some $ first.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on November 17, 2019, 07:59:54 PM
   What a coincidence.
I  was also at a Dynamic Carbine Skill Builder with a much younger shooter this weekend.
Weather wasn't as nice as it had been all week, but I would say there was some "High Humidity" falling late morning.

   Was using a 4 X 32 Trij ACOG which I had sighted in on a 25 meter zero.
This made 10yds or less kind a tough as if you did not draw up directly with in 6"s  of target, it required a little search and even at that distance, POA/POI  was just below the bottom hash mark.
Add another 3 yds and everything opened up  from there and beyond and  making POA/ POI was easy.
I was going to come with an Aimpoint, but we've been doing a lot of 100-450 yd with AR,  AK and .308 bolt so I thought I would go ACOG and work on my "short game"

   Also have my safety/reload/ safety down, something I was against  utilizing last class as my "prestidigitation" was lacking, but a 45 Degree throw ambi solved that and I kind of like the move now.

   I did have a malfunction but immediately knew what it was as it happened once before. The notorious popped primer falling into trigger assembly.
I had borrowed my back up to a pair of others who had "build issues" and missed a good target string tickling the primer out from beneath the trigger spring.
It was an ammo thing, not really equipment failure so I don't feel that bad about it, just sore I missed t the string.
I think there were 3 rifles with issues in my group which were no longer used, all of which were builds.

   I also think it's time to replace my sling as it started annoying me later in the day.
It is kinda worn.
Vickers maybe ? 

   As for your eyes, sorry, nothing I can do for you young whipper-snappers.
"Getting old isn't for pussy's." says my MIL , eh Inspector / OF  :wave:
LOL

   I personally had no issues with anybody's brake, but was told someone had a flamethrower assist on their Stouker concussion rifle.
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

   So I too had  "Another fun day on the range with an awesome group of shooters." as well as some fine instruction and look forward to seeing them all again."
GREAT Bunch !
 :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 18, 2019, 10:39:59 AM
I just googled LPVO and now I understand more.  I've tried my friends LPVO and noticed at 50 yards or less, the red dot was faster to acquire the target.  But it all depends what kind of hits you want to get and age of eyes.  If you're hitting steel or similar objects where any hit counts, then a red dot is faster and easier for me.  But if you have to stack rounds on each other, then the LVPO would come in more accurate because I can see where the POI is and adjust as needed.

So my AR has a ROMEO5 on it (red dot) because all my shooting is within 40 yards.  This is why I never got a LVPO or an ACOG type of sight.  Even at 1x on the LVPO, the acquisition was slower than a 1x red dot.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on November 18, 2019, 12:04:45 PM
   What a coincidence.
I  was also at a Dynamic Carbine Skill Builder with a much younger shooter this weekend.
Weather wasn't as nice as it had been all week, but I would say there was some "High Humidity" falling late morning.

   Was using a 4 X 32 Trij ACOG which I had sighted in on a 25 meter zero.
This made 10yds or less kind a tough as if you did not draw up directly with in 6"s  of target, it required a little search and even at that distance, POA/POI  was just below the bottom hash mark.
Add another 3 yds and everything opened up  from there and beyond and  making POA/ POI was easy.
I was going to come with an Aimpoint, but we've been doing a lot of 100-450 yd with AR,  AK and .308 bolt so I thought I would go ACOG and work on my "short game"

   Also have my safety/reload/ safety down, something I was against  utilizing last class as my "prestidigitation" was lacking, but a 45 Degree throw ambi solved that and I kind of like the move now.

   I did have a malfunction but immediately knew what it was as it happened once before. The notorious popped primer falling into trigger assembly.
I had borrowed my back up to a pair of others who had "build issues" and missed a good target string tickling the primer out from beneath the trigger spring.
It was an ammo thing, not really equipment failure so I don't feel that bad about it, just sore I missed t the string.
I think there were 3 rifles with issues in my group which were no longer used, all of which were builds.

   I also think it's time to replace my sling as it started annoying me later in the day.
It is kinda worn.
Vickers maybe ? 

   As for your eyes, sorry, nothing I can do for you young whipper-snappers.
"Getting old isn't for pussy's." says my MIL , eh Inspector / OF  :wave:
LOL

   I personally had no issues with anybody's brake, but was told someone had a flamethrower assist on their Stouker concussion rifle.
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

   So I too had  "Another fun day on the range with an awesome group of shooters." as well as some fine instruction and look forward to seeing them all again."
GREAT Bunch !
 :thumbsup:
What a coincidence!

I did notice that you and I think two others were using ACOGs. I was chatting with one guy who also had an RMR on it and he was having an easier time with the RMR, even with the steel. Think he mentioned he was having a hard time getting the steel into the ACOG’s window. I wanted to try the LPVO on 3-4x, but didn’t get a chance.

I was getting the safety manipulation down when doing deliberate reps as well as rifle only. I did catch myself not doing it a few times when we mixed in the pistol transition and multi-target strings. Mind was on keeping the shot/number/target straight. Need to work on that skill till it become habit. Getting there, but need more practice. I mean I want to, just old habits creeping in, again.

I noticed that you disappeared for a while. I wondered what happened. I actually had that primer thing happen to a gun once, where it got lodged under the trigger bar. Trigger and safety completely disabled when I was cleaning. So somehow the primer moved to the “disable spot” after shooting. It was strange. Hopefully never to be seen/experienced again.

Ahh. Didn’t know they were builds. They were in your group, so I didn’t get to chat with them much. I didn’t notice one problem gun has a fancy muzzle device and gas block. Hopefully they’ll get it sorted out. I asked if they wanted to shoot my backup, but they said they were good with alternating rifles.

You had an interesting sling method. I actually had a spare Vickers sling with me. You should’ve said something. Needed QD attachment points tho.

The guy shooting to my right had a break that had VERY efficient side venting. Felt like a leaf blower going on and off next to me. Haha. That was an interesting test for shooting with “outside” distractions.

Yup, excellent day!




Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on November 18, 2019, 01:03:50 PM
I just googled LPVO and now I understand more.  I've tried my friends LPVO and noticed at 50 yards or less, the red dot was faster to acquire the target.  But it all depends what kind of hits you want to get and age of eyes.  If you're hitting steel or similar objects where any hit counts, then a red dot is faster and easier for me.  But if you have to stack rounds on each other, then the LVPO would come in more accurate because I can see where the POI is and adjust as needed.

So my AR has a ROMEO5 on it (red dot) because all my shooting is within 40 yards.  This is why I never got a LVPO or an ACOG type of sight.  Even at 1x on the LVPO, the acquisition was slower than a 1x red dot.
That you've tried both for yourself is great.  That said, for me it is very much about what is the purpose and intended/envisioned use.  I definitely had some things in mind that I wanted to see as well test for myself when debating investing in an LPVO.  If the benefits of the LPVO isn't what you are looking for (or maybe not even realize), then that's a different story.  That said, the performance difference between say EoTech/Aimpoint and LPVO from the  "in your face" range out to say 50 yards (actually further) was more about comparing the "just as good" factor of the LPVO in 1x to the standard red dot, and then eventually factoring in the benefits of the LPVO.  The latter aspect is one that I hope to get the delve into soon. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on November 18, 2019, 05:23:48 PM
What a coincidence!

I did notice that you and I think two others were using ACOGs. I was chatting with one guy who also had an RMR on it and he was having an easier time with the RMR, even with the steel. Think he mentioned he was having a hard time getting the steel into the ACOG’s window. I wanted to try the LPVO on 3-4x, but didn’t get a chance.

I was getting the safety manipulation down when doing deliberate reps as well as rifle only. I did catch myself not doing it a few times when we mixed in the pistol transition and multi-target strings. Mind was on keeping the shot/number/target straight. Need to work on that skill till it become habit. Getting there, but need more practice. I mean I want to, just old habits creeping in, again.

I noticed that you disappeared for a while. I wondered what happened. I actually had that primer thing happen to a gun once, where it got lodged under the trigger bar. Trigger and safety completely disabled when I was cleaning. So somehow the primer moved to the “disable spot” after shooting. It was strange. Hopefully never to be seen/experienced again.

Ahh. Didn’t know they were builds. They were in your group, so I didn’t get to chat with them much. I didn’t notice one problem gun has a fancy muzzle device and gas block. Hopefully they’ll get it sorted out. I asked if they wanted to shoot my backup, but they said they were good with alternating rifles.

You had an interesting sling method. I actually had a spare Vickers sling with me. You should’ve said something. Needed QD attachment points tho.

The guy shooting to my right had a break that had VERY efficient side venting. Felt like a leaf blower going on and off next to me. Haha. That was an interesting test for shooting with “outside” distractions.

Yup, excellent day!

   Saw the ACOGS, but I think there may even have been 4 including mine and the one with RMR.
Attempted BAC but it was not as fast for me (old eyes) and wanted to work on ACOG CQB anyway.

   Yup, knew what the primer deal was cuz it happened before.
Twice if you count the primer dropping perfectly between the gas tube and the BCG gas key slamming the primer into the gas key.
What are the odds  ?  :crazy:

   My "interesting sling method" is due to the fact I am SUPER hesitant to transition to left handed fire.
Seeing how I cannot feel with my left hand takes that transition out of play.
(I got busted by BB grabbing a pistol mag and trying to feed it into my AR mag well)  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 I rarely even support hand fire with pistol and only when I have plenty of space. :shake:
Dropping your pistol is more than embarrassing.  :P

      I think the 'Gasser" wants to come out here for some LR.
If you want to test your LPVO on some distance, LMK and I'll see if we can co-ordinate a time.
PM me

 :shaka:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on November 18, 2019, 06:10:53 PM
   Saw the ACOGS, but I think there may even have been 4 including mine and the one with RMR.
Attempted BAC but it was not as fast for me (old eyes) and wanted to work on ACOG CQB anyway.

   Yup, knew what the primer deal was cuz it happened before.
Twice if you count the primer dropping perfectly between the gas tube and the BCG gas key slamming the primer into the gas key.
What are the odds  ?  :crazy:

   My "interesting sling method" is due to the fact I am SUPER hesitant to transition to left handed fire.
Seeing how I cannot feel with my left hand takes that transition out of play.
(I got busted by BB grabbing a pistol mag and trying to feed it into my AR mag well)  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 I rarely even support hand fire with pistol and only when I have plenty of space. :shake:
Dropping your pistol is more than embarrassing.  :P

      I think the 'Gasser" wants to come out here for some LR.
If you want to test your LPVO on some distance, LMK and I'll see if we can co-ordinate a time.
PM me

 :shaka:
I have very little experience with ACOGs and very, very little in the 5-10 yard range. Good that you’re trying and stuck with it. To a certain extent, good to “shoot what you got”. I’ve actually been wanting to do more shooting with irons.

Ahh. I forgot about your injury. Even for me, things are different after my back surgery. Wish I could go back to my physical condition when I first started doing the shooting class thing. Just gotta find a way that works, which you have been.

Yeah, I’m def down for some LD, especially with the LPVO. Keep me posted. I have some testing I want to do with various ammo, including some FGMM, with longer distance shooting in mind.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on November 18, 2019, 07:46:46 PM
I have very little experience with ACOGs and very, very little in the 5-10 yard range. Good that you’re trying and stuck with it. To a certain extent, good to “shoot what you got”. I’ve actually been wanting to do more shooting with irons.

Ahh. I forgot about your injury. Even for me, things are different after my back surgery. Wish I could go back to my physical condition when I first started doing the shooting class thing. Just gotta find a way that works, which you have been.

Yeah, I’m def down for some LD, especially with the LPVO. Keep me posted. I have some testing I want to do with various ammo, including some FGMM, with longer distance shooting in mind.  :thumbsup:

heads
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on December 01, 2019, 05:46:37 PM
Wrong thread. . .

#nofocus
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Bushido on December 01, 2019, 07:56:44 PM
Shot carbine course (skill builder) yesterday.  It was a very hot and humid day on the range.  It was overcast most of the day, but rain early and virtually NO breeze made it for a very humid day.  Of course it had to rain at this location and with this training group.  Almost tradition.   ;D 

Shot about 400 rounds rifle and some pistol mixed in.  There was opportunity to get more reps and rounds in, but I think it was a good round count for me.  I would say al quality training rounds.  We ended the day shooting steel, but time was short.  I definitely could have run a bunch more ammo shooting steel if we had more time. 

Shot my new BCM upper with LPVO.  It was the second time shooting this setup with the first being to zero.  Overall, the setup is excellent and the glass is awesome (for the price, it better be  ;D ).  I would say a decent first impression in a training environment.  No "wow, this is super awesome", but also not "meh, I'll stick with previous setups".  Will definitely be shooting this setup more, but this setup was also primarily for some specific reasons and not necessarily primary for the context of yesterday's class. 

Some highlights/notes:

1) Need more time with the LPVO, particularly tighter consistency with mounting the gun from various ready positions.  At 1x, it's decently forgiving on eye box and head position, but not nearly as forgiving as a 1x red dot (Aimpoint, EoTech, etc).  I expected this, but also different experiencing in training when there are some "stressors" added in. 

2) The LPVO setup is quite heavy.  I didn't think it was that much more than my primary setup with EoTech, but my arms were smoked by the end of the day.  There were series of strings of fire where my delts were on fire and actually started trembling.  Being out of shape/practice with shooting the AR like that was part of it, but a much younger shooter (who shoots pretty often) in my relay said similar.  I weighed both guns this morning and the LPVO setup is 9.8 lbs and my EoTech setup is 8.8 lbs.  I thought the weight difference was going to be more, but still 1 lbs is a decent amount.  I didn't have the light mounted, so the setup will only get heavier.  :(

3) The LPVO reticle seemed to help tighten up shot grouping.  At 1x, the center dot is easy to pick up, but the vertical line below the dot seemed to help tighten lateral dispersion.  Your eyes naturally picks ups on what level and or vertical as well as tries to align and/or center things.  I assume that helped.  I did notice after many shot strings that the lateral spread was pretty tight.  I was also playing around with using that portion of the reticle to help with holdovers as well. 

4) When we were doing shot strings on multiple targets, the LPVO seemed fine shooting both eyes open.  Or at least not much different in view from my EoTech.  However, I did notice that when arm fatigue set in, it affected my holds.  Seemed to get sloppy with more shots dipping low. 

5) I'm seeing the effects of "aging eyes".  When we were doing some rifle to pistol transitions, I noticed that the change in focal plane from the rifle to the pistol was lagging.  It was the first time I noticed it like that.  I've been fighting using reading glasses and have started in the last month or so.  We had a candid conversation about this in the even debrief.  I had been fighting using reading glasses or even using larger font on my phone.  Well, my aging eyes have caught up to me.

Some points to hopefully help maximize one's training time. 

6) Try your best to have your rifle setup tested before a class.  Last thing you want is to be fighting your gear when there is plenty for your mind to be absorbing.  Completely understand that sometimes there isn't enough time to do so for many.  Training is also a good time to iron out gear setups as well.  However, a malfunctioning gun will definitely hamper your day.  My new BCM upper performed flawlessly, but I did have a backup carbine ready to go if something happened.  Say I didn't mount the optic properly or anything else.  The only tweak I had to do was adjust the sling attachment on the rail to keep the sling away from my support hand.

7) Understand your zero as well as holds.  Or at least try to have a confirmed zero at known distance.  I had zeroed my LPVO at 50 yards, but the start of the day was dialing in the hold over.  Something that KHSC isn't setup well to test and see for yourself.  But there were also a couple of shooters who weren't quite dialed in on their zero.  Wasn't a big deal when shooting in the 5-10 yard range, but it did show up when we were shooting steel at "longer" distances.

Another fun day on the range with an awesome group of shooters.  Hopefully I'll start shooting more consistently on my own as well as with this training group.  I was quite sore last night and this morning.  Both my shoulders as well as other parts of my body.  But all well worth a great day on the range.   :geekdanc:

PS - Oh yeah, can't forget "FIREBALL!!!"  I think some were getting a tan from that brake.   :rofl:

Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on December 01, 2019, 09:13:22 PM
Wrong thread. . .

#nofocus

heads
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on December 02, 2019, 04:43:40 PM
Not quite training, but shot a pistol match this past weekend.  Haven't shot a match in over 2 years.  Just checked my emails and I last shot in June 2017.  Work, health of a family member, own ailments, etc kept me away.  I was shooting here and there during that time, but wasn't making it out to matches like I used to.  I used to shoot maybe 6-8 matches a year.  My goal at one time was to shoot at least once a month.  Lots of things have changes since I last shot a match, so I was expecting a lot of rust, adjustments to the "current me", etc. 

Overall, had a really fun day on the range.  It was raining in town when I left for the range, but it was dry once I got to Niu Valley.  It was actually a relatively cool day on the range since it was overcast most of the day and had a good breeze and the rain stayed away.  The stages were a good mix of steel and paper with varying shooting stations, the latter of which was one of my main concerns going in.  Since I had not shot a match in a while, I told myself to just take it easy, so slow (hopefully smooth) and just have fun.  Of course, once that first buzzer went off, some of that mindset went out the window as the competitive side kicked back in. 

Some notes/highlights from the match:

1) I started off pretty solid scoring wise.  I think I cleaned the steel (one for one) on my first two stages and had mostly A's.  My times were, uh, respectable, but I was expecting that.  I was admittedly a little nervous prior to the first stage, but once that buzzer went off, that all went away.  My heart was racing by the end of that first stage.  While the match went smoothly, not much waiting around and squads about evenly distributed, I certainly felt a drop off in energy in the 4th and 5th stages.  I didn't feel tired, but my concentration sort of started waning.  The 4th stage was all steel and included a couple of smaller plates that seemed to be giving some shooters quite a bit of trouble (I witnessed at least one shooter run all his ammo dry on this stage).  Anyways, when I missed twice on that smaller plate, I noticed that I was prairie dogging and focus was on the plate and not my front sight.  Dammit.  After a forced respiratory pause and front sight focus, got the hit.  However, that lack of focus seemed to carry over to the 5th stage and ended up with a bunch of C's and also a mike.  Thankfully that was my only mike of the match.

2) Thanks to a couple of helpful shooters in my squad, I ended up with video of all of my stages.  Always somewhat apprehensive to watch as it can be discouraging seeing what you're actually doing.  I did notice some of my old shooting form creeping back in here and there when I was trying to focus on the hits on the smaller steel.  However, I was happy to see that most of my reloads were where they belong, and not around belt level, which is a bad habit of mine.  Video doesn't lie and overall I was happy with what I saw, but of course there were many things to work on.  Stuff like being aware of standoff to barricades, being more efficient coming "on station", etc. 

3) As mentioned above, I've been noticing changes in my eye sight lately and that was another concern.  When I was practicing at the bullseye range, it took more effort to get a crisp front sight focus.  However, during the match, the FO front sight was very bright and easy to pick up.  Or at least I didn't notice having trouble picking up the sights.

4) Be honest about how you're shooting.  I've been working on a lot of ball & dummy drills lately and it seems to have really helped.  Admittedly, it was discouraging to see the occasional (sometimes not more occasional  :( ) yank of the trigger and even flinch when encountering a misfire come through.  But no one to blame but me.  That said, there were a bunch of shooters at the match that I am sure could really benefit from some ball & dummy drills.

5) Lots of people shooting RDS.  A LOT.  I already have a Glock 17 with RMR and a Glock 19 on the way with RMR cutout.  I'm hyped to shoot RDS more.

I've definitely got the shooting bug back.  Both handguns and rifle.  Thanks to "a friend" to mentioned that they were gonna shoot the match this past weekend and was the light to get off my ass and get back in the game.  Most of my concerns about getting back into the matches didn't come up or at least wasn't something I was able to work through/around to at least some level of personal satisfaction.  In any case, another great day on the range shared with excellent shooters.   :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on December 02, 2019, 05:02:51 PM
Not quite training, but shot a pistol match this past weekend.  Haven't shot a match in over 2 years.  Just checked my emails and I last shot in June 2017.  Work, health of a family member, own ailments, etc kept me away.  I was shooting here and there during that time, but wasn't making it out to matches like I used to.  I used to shoot maybe 6-8 matches a year.  My goal at one time was to shoot at least once a month.  Lots of things have changes since I last shot a match, so I was expecting a lot of rust, adjustments to the "current me", etc. 

Overall, had a really fun day on the range.  It was raining in town when I left for the range, but it was dry once I got to Niu Valley.  It was actually a relatively cool day on the range since it was overcast most of the day and had a good breeze and the rain stayed away.  The stages were a good mix of steel and paper with varying shooting stations, the latter of which was one of my main concerns going in.  Since I had not shot a match in a while, I told myself to just take it easy, so slow (hopefully smooth) and just have fun.  Of course, once that first buzzer went off, some of that mindset went out the window as the competitive side kicked back in. 

Some notes/highlights from the match:

1) I started off pretty solid scoring wise.  I think I cleaned the steel (one for one) on my first two stages and had mostly A's.  My times were, uh, respectable, but I was expecting that.  I was admittedly a little nervous prior to the first stage, but once that buzzer went off, that all went away.  My heart was racing by the end of that first stage.  While the match went smoothly, not much waiting around and squads about evenly distributed, I certainly felt a drop off in energy in the 4th and 5th stages.  I didn't feel tired, but my concentration sort of started waning.  The 4th stage was all steel and included a couple of smaller plates that seemed to be giving some shooters quite a bit of trouble (I witnessed at least one shooter run all his ammo dry on this stage).  Anyways, when I missed twice on that smaller plate, I noticed that I was prairie dogging and focus was on the plate and not my front sight.  Dammit.  After a forced respiratory pause and front sight focus, got the hit.  However, that lack of focus seemed to carry over to the 5th stage and ended up with a bunch of C's and also a mike.  Thankfully that was my only mike of the match.

2) Thanks to a couple of helpful shooters in my squad, I ended up with video of all of my stages.  Always somewhat apprehensive to watch as it can be discouraging seeing what you're actually doing.  I did notice some of my old shooting form creeping back in here and there when I was trying to focus on the hits on the smaller steel.  However, I was happy to see that most of my reloads were where they belong, and not around belt level, which is a bad habit of mine.  Video doesn't lie and overall I was happy with what I saw, but of course there were many things to work on.  Stuff like being aware of standoff to barricades, being more efficient coming "on station", etc. 

3) As mentioned above, I've been noticing changes in my eye sight lately and that was another concern.  When I was practicing at the bullseye range, it took more effort to get a crisp front sight focus.  However, during the match, the FO front sight was very bright and easy to pick up.  Or at least I didn't notice having trouble picking up the sights.

4) Be honest about how you're shooting.  I've been working on a lot of ball & dummy drills lately and it seems to have really helped.  Admittedly, it was discouraging to see the occasional (sometimes not more occasional  :( ) yank of the trigger and even flinch when encountering a misfire come through.  But no one to blame but me.  That said, there were a bunch of shooters at the match that I am sure could really benefit from some ball & dummy drills.

5) Lots of people shooting RDS.  A LOT.  I already have a Glock 17 with RMR and a Glock 19 on the way with RMR cutout.  I'm hyped to shoot RDS more.

I've definitely got the shooting bug back.  Both handguns and rifle.  Thanks to "a friend" to mentioned that they were gonna shoot the match this past weekend and was the light to get off my ass and get back in the game.  Most of my concerns about getting back into the matches didn't come up or at least wasn't something I was able to work through/around to at least some level of personal satisfaction.  In any case, another great day on the range shared with excellent shooters.   :thumbsup:

just watched a friends video
lot of short stubby steps and bring the gun down while moving to the next shooting station
and stomach high reloads...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on December 02, 2019, 07:47:17 PM
just watched a friends video
lot of short stubby steps and bring the gun down while moving to the next shooting station
and stomach high reloads...
I had some of the bringing the gun down in between stations being mindful of the 180 degree rule. Not too bad though. I need to be better about getting to the station with feet and then punching out. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on December 03, 2019, 09:13:27 AM
For the past month, I've been helping a buddy who teaches a self-defense class.  He's been teaching this class for about a year now and having me around helps with someone to demonstrate many of the techniques, as well as a (somewhat) experienced person working with the students.  This class has a very diverse group of people that attend and many times has folks who just want to try a class or too.  So that leads to a class that includes those who haven't done any training to those who have some background in training.  I trained with my buddy in another class for maybe 3-4 years prior to him doing his own thing, so I'm pretty familiar with most of that he's teaching.  It also provides a good opportunity to get out and do some training as well as foster self-defense training. 

Anyways, relevance to this thread is that now that I've been helping on the instruction/teaching side of my buddy's class, I see a LOT of parallels to firearms training.  Here are some of the parallels that I've noticed:

1) Prior experience level and how quickly or readily they absorb the techniques are very similar.  I've found that those with little experience but with an open mind tend to pick up the techniques quickly.  Whereas those who have some to quite a bit of experience tend to focus on either what they THINK they are doing or want to explain how they think it should go instead of observing and learning the technique.  Same with firearm training habits, I understand that it can take time and a lot of reps to break a habit, but an open mind to try it is key. 

2) Good repetitions are key.  In many of the self-defense techniques, there are "setup" steps along the way with an ultimate end state.  Be it a knife or gun disarm, punch deflect and counter, etc.  Say a given technique has 5 steps and ends with a knife disarm.  Many often tend to want to rush through steps 1-3 in their focus on 4-5.  A parallel for me is training working the safety on AR reloads.  I can get it with deliberate reps, but then when adding say a course of fire after that, my mind is so focused on the course of fire that I notice fumbling the manipulation of the safety.  So I could use more GOOD reps to get that skill down as opposed to ingraining another bad habit. 

3) Just because you can perform a skill doesn't make you good at teaching the skill.  Breaking them down to teach a whole other skill.  In this class, I would say I know most of the techniques and how to teach them.  But there are still many that I know how to do, but I seem to struggle breaking them down and teaching someone who just isn't getting it.  Part of that is that I was I took a break from that kind of training for over a year, but the other part is teaching is a whole different level.  I think the teaching aspect is really helping me get back into thing quicker. 

4) Women tend to pick up skills quicker than men, as long as they have an "I can" or "will try" attitude, and not "I am only here because my husband wants me to be here".  Many of the self-defense techniques are quite effective in a smaller person defending themselves against a larger person.  When they see that and the light bulb goes off that they can, it's an awesome feeling.  However, same with firearms training, most men come into things with sort of "ah, I already know how to do this" and usually that means their mind isn't open to instruction. 

5) On more of a personal level, recent back issues has affected me physically with many "lingering" effects.  That has affected what I feel my capabilities are in both shooting and self-defense training.  Getting back into both at a gradual level has shown me that I just need to work through things and find a way to make it work with what I've got.  We aren't getting any younger, so just have to make the best with what we've got.  I'll never go back to how I used to be and while I am definitely feeling the effects of aging more lately, consistent training can hopefully help me make the best of what I've got.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on December 03, 2019, 10:32:40 AM
For the past month, I've been helping a buddy who teaches a self-defense class.  He's been teaching this class for about a year now and having me around helps with someone to demonstrate many of the techniques, as well as a (somewhat) experienced person working with the students.  This class has a very diverse group of people that attend and many times has folks who just want to try a class or too.  So that leads to a class that includes those who haven't done any training to those who have some background in training.  I trained with my buddy in another class for maybe 3-4 years prior to him doing his own thing, so I'm pretty familiar with most of that he's teaching.  It also provides a good opportunity to get out and do some training as well as foster self-defense training. 

Anyways, relevance to this thread is that now that I've been helping on the instruction/teaching side of my buddy's class, I see a LOT of parallels to firearms training.  Here are some of the parallels that I've noticed:

1) Prior experience level and how quickly or readily they absorb the techniques are very similar.  I've found that those with little experience but with an open mind tend to pick up the techniques quickly.  Whereas those who have some to quite a bit of experience tend to focus on either what they THINK they are doing or want to explain how they think it should go instead of observing and learning the technique.  Same with firearm training habits, I understand that it can take time and a lot of reps to break a habit, but an open mind to try it is key. 

2) Good repetitions are key.  In many of the self-defense techniques, there are "setup" steps along the way with an ultimate end state.  Be it a knife or gun disarm, punch deflect and counter, etc.  Say a given technique has 5 steps and ends with a knife disarm.  Many often tend to want to rush through steps 1-3 in their focus on 4-5.  A parallel for me is training working the safety on AR reloads.  I can get it with deliberate reps, but then when adding say a course of fire after that, my mind is so focused on the course of fire that I notice fumbling the manipulation of the safety.  So I could use more GOOD reps to get that skill down as opposed to ingraining another bad habit. 

3) Just because you can perform a skill doesn't make you good at teaching the skill.  Breaking them down to teach a whole other skill.  In this class, I would say I know most of the techniques and how to teach them.  But there are still many that I know how to do, but I seem to struggle breaking them down and teaching someone who just isn't getting it.  Part of that is that I was I took a break from that kind of training for over a year, but the other part is teaching is a whole different level.  I think the teaching aspect is really helping me get back into thing quicker. 

4) Women tend to pick up skills quicker than men, as long as they have an "I can" or "will try" attitude, and not "I am only here because my husband wants me to be here".  Many of the self-defense techniques are quite effective in a smaller person defending themselves against a larger person.  When they see that and the light bulb goes off that they can, it's an awesome feeling.  However, same with firearms training, most men come into things with sort of "ah, I already know how to do this" and usually that means their mind isn't open to instruction. 

5) On more of a personal level, recent back issues has affected me physically with many "lingering" effects.  That has affected what I feel my capabilities are in both shooting and self-defense training.  Getting back into both at a gradual level has shown me that I just need to work through things and find a way to make it work with what I've got.  We aren't getting any younger, so just have to make the best with what we've got.  I'll never go back to how I used to be and while I am definitely feeling the effects of aging more lately, consistent training can hopefully help me make the best of what I've got.

#truth
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 03, 2019, 02:58:56 PM
Is there a link to the rules?  Sounds like something I wanna try at least once.  But I will be shooting factory range ammo, and not that soft on the hands stuff.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on December 03, 2019, 03:43:27 PM
Is there a link to the rules?  Sounds like something I wanna try at least once.  But I will be shooting factory range ammo, and not that soft on the hands stuff.

https://www.ipsc.org/pdf/RulesHandgun.pdf
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on December 03, 2019, 04:09:49 PM
Is there a link to the rules?  Sounds like something I wanna try at least once.  But I will be shooting factory range ammo, and not that soft on the hands stuff.
Macsak already posted the rules.  Having shot with HDF, I'm sure you have all of the necessary gear for USPSA/IPSC.  As long as you're mindful of the safety rules, think you'll be fine. 

I only shoot factory 115 gr 9 mm.  None of that "poofter" stuff for me.  Not that I thumb my nose at it, but I really don't own any reloading equipment or components, so I shoot whatever bulk ammo I can get at a good price.   

During the match this weekend, there were some shooting production division that the ammo sounded REALLY soft.   
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on December 30, 2019, 03:57:43 PM
As mentioned in the handgun red dot thread, had a short training session this past weekend.  While I have been spending a lot more time shooting lately, I haven't been doing much holster work.  I definitely feel that my draw and time to first shot has gotten a LOT slower.  Could that have been because of picking up the red dot?  Maybe in some cases, but there were times when I had the dot but I had rushed the draw and didn't get a solid grip and net result suffered at times. 

Another aspect I have been working on is cutting down transition time.  Speeding up the process starting with the last shot on target A and then transition to target B.  Got to work on that a little bit this past weekend, but something I definitely want to work on a lot more. 

Some notes:
1) My new 19 based setup came with Magpul mags.  They fed flawlessly, but I did notice that they were slightly more "sticky" than OEM Glock mags.  Have to be more disciplined with dropping the mag with the gun at more vertical angle.  My tendency is to get quick to the reload position and mag isn't being released until after the gun is already tilted. 

2) I am NOT a fan of the ETS mags.  It seems like the rounds bind up on either the sides of the mag or at the feed lips.  Luckily I don't bought one of them.  I may give the another try or two, but with the pricing of the Magpul mags, no reason to spend the asking price for the ETS mags. 

3) Don't be afraid to push things in training.  I'm not saying go all out and get sloppy and wreckless, but be ok with seeing where you're failing and embrace those as things to work on.  Had a couple of shooters getting down on themselves a bit when the targets weren't as clean as they would've liked, hits on steel not as consistent, etc.  I definitely did notice that at times in my shooting.  Rust was definitely a factor in many cases and I can say a little bit for me as well, but I noted those aspects as things to work on.  Back to a lot more ball & dummy for me. 

Had a bunch of newer shooters during the open shoot session.  Good to have more likely minded folks who are very interested in shooting and responsible gun ownership.  Even better to have those who are enthusiastic about sharing their firearms and their experiences with those new to shooting.

Overall a great day of shooting.  Reminders that shooting is a perishable skill, but I am looking forward to working on that. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Inspector on December 30, 2019, 07:24:04 PM
I don’t normally attend training classes. I learned the hard way, especially when I picked up a poor grip or stance and made it a habit. Still not great, but better than I used to be. Slick at the range gave me some terrific pointers that helped me become a better revolver shooter.

So when I decided to carry a DA only revolver I decided I needed to learn to shoot a DA revolver better and faster. This includes draw but I am having a hard time deciding on the proper holster for myself. I think I am going to have to try 2 or 3 different types to figure out which type I prefer. Anyway, I bought an old out of print book written by an old LEO back in the 60’s. The whole book is on how to shoot DAO Revolvers quickly and in numerous situations. I learned a lot from that book. But when it came to practice I sucked a lot!!! All of my old habits that are proper for slow fire target shooting SA no longer apply. I practiced so much at one point I got a blister on my trigger finger. In all the years I have been shooting I have never had that happen before. I think I am coming along okay. I painted my front sight white so I can pick it up easier. And it will be nice to be able to practice at 7-15 yds over the 25 we have here.

My first big project after I get my reloading set back up is to settle on SD ammo (Like Gold Dots) for my gun and then reload similarly for practice ammo.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on December 30, 2019, 09:16:20 PM
I don’t normally attend training classes. I learned the hard way, especially when I picked up a poor grip or stance and made it a habit. Still not great, but better than I used to be. Slick at the range gave me some terrific pointers that helped me become a better revolver shooter.

So when I decided to carry a DA only revolver I decided I needed to learn to shoot a DA revolver better and faster. This includes draw but I am having a hard time deciding on the proper holster for myself. I think I am going to have to try 2 or 3 different types to figure out which type I prefer. Anyway, I bought an old out of print book written by an old LEO back in the 60’s. The whole book is on how to shoot DAO Revolvers quickly and in numerous situations. I learned a lot from that book. But when it came to practice I sucked a lot!!! All of my old habits that are proper for slow fire target shooting SA no longer apply. I practiced so much at one point I got a blister on my trigger finger. In all the years I have been shooting I have never had that happen before. I think I am coming along okay. I painted my front sight white so I can pick it up easier. And it will be nice to be able to practice at 7-15 yds over the 25 we have here.

My first big project after I get my reloading set back up is to settle on SD ammo (Like Gold Dots) for my gun and then reload similarly for practice ammo.
DA trigger, both revolver and DA/SA handguns is something that is challenging.  I was planning on shooting a couple of matches with my CZ SP-01 where the first shot has to be DA (  ::) ) so I was doing a bunch of dry fire with the DA.  I suspect my first couple of stages will suffer on the first shots out of the holster.   :(

A cop friend on the mainland actually tried to qualify with a revolver.  He's a Glock guy, but also has diverse gun tastes, so he tried mostly for fun.  He said the repetitive long DA pulls is something that he had trouble with when being used to semi-autos with reset. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Inspector on December 31, 2019, 06:28:55 AM
DA trigger, both revolver and DA/SA handguns is something that is challenging.  I was planning on shooting a couple of matches with my CZ SP-01 where the first shot has to be DA (  ::) ) so I was doing a bunch of dry fire with the DA.  I suspect my first couple of stages will suffer on the first shots out of the holster.   :(

A cop friend on the mainland actually tried to qualify with a revolver.  He's a Glock guy, but also has diverse gun tastes, so he tried mostly for fun.  He said the repetitive long DA pulls is something that he had trouble with when being used to semi-autos with reset.
I have a Sig P-228. It is basically an older version of the current P-229. For many years that was what I designated as my carry gun if I ever lived somewhere that I could carry. I had a hard time transitioning from DA to SA and doing it smoothly. I have not shot it in a long time. I bought my Glock 17 before that and I practiced with the Glock for many years before I settled back into revolvers. So the Sig has been sidelined. I really need to start training with a holster.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 01, 2020, 12:33:04 PM
I have a Sig P-228. It is basically an older version of the current P-229. For many years that was what I designated as my carry gun if I ever lived somewhere that I could carry. I had a hard time transitioning from DA to SA and doing it smoothly. I have not shot it in a long time. I bought my Glock 17 before that and I practiced with the Glock for many years before I settled back into revolvers. So the Sig has been sidelined. I really need to start training with a holster.
One day I’ll get a 228 or 229. Preferably one made in Germany. One of the first guns I shot was a 226 and I enjoyed shooting that gun.

The DA/SA is something I’d have to work a lot at. When I used to shoot with the defensive group at SRGC, many shooters had Sigs. It was common for the first shot out of the holster to be a “dick shot”.  :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on January 01, 2020, 12:42:18 PM
One day I’ll get a 228 or 229. Preferably one made in Germany. One of the first guns I shot was a 226 and I enjoyed shooting that gun.

The DA/SA is something I’d have to work a lot at. When I used to shoot with the defensive group at SRGC, many shooters had Sigs. It was common for the first shot out of the holster to be a “dick shot”.  :rofl:

Revolvers and this thing helps a lot with that where you can get double action accuracy almost as good as single action.

(https://www.anthem-sports.com/media/extendware/ewimageopt/media/inline/ea/4/prohands-gripmaster-hand-exerciser-heavy-tension-6b9.jpg)
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on January 01, 2020, 12:54:13 PM
One day I’ll get a 228 or 229. Preferably one made in Germany. One of the first guns I shot was a 226 and I enjoyed shooting that gun.

The DA/SA is something I’d have to work a lot at. When I used to shoot with the defensive group at SRGC, many shooters had Sigs. It was common for the first shot out of the holster to be a “dick shot”.  :rofl:

heads
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 06, 2020, 12:47:36 PM
Shot a pistol match over the weekend.  Had been spending a good amount of time working on some things recently, so I was looking forward to seeing that effort pay off.  Well, it did and didn't  :( :facepalm: 

Some notes:
1) Made a rookie mistake, which I've actually done before, by shooting a match (or training shoot) with new gear.  I had all new factory mags for this match.  Well, I did use two of them in a range session a couple of days before and didn't have any malfunctions.  However, on the first stage, a malfunction messed up what was otherwise a pretty good and clean run.  Hits were mostly good, but the time to clear the malfunction is what cost me on that stage.  The malfunction also messed up the plan for the stage.  After watching the video, I noticed that my reloads and sequence seemed thrown off after the malfunction.  It happens and I should be better at recovering from stuff like that.  Noticed that "first fumble" also messed up a number of other shooters, especially on the first stage of the day.  Again, something that I should be better at working through.  At least looking back at the malfunction clearance, I caught it quickly and cleared it quickly.  Just that time cost me. . .  I also noticed old habits crept back in after that "first fumble".  Something I'll have to work on (among many other things).

2) Target transitions was something I had been working on also recently.  Both dry practice and in a couple of sessions at the range and in the action bays.  It was something that a couple of stages presented opportunities to see my progress.  First one wasn't great as I think I was focused on the low percentage first shot, fumbled the mandatory reload and threw things off on everything that followed.  Since I fumbled, I think I rushed the transition between target 2 and target 3 and I think I threw the second shot on target 2 in the rush to get to target 3.  Looking back at the video, my transition seemed good.  I think I was just in a rush to make up the time that I didn't "finish" well on target 2.  That was actually something I saw happen with number of experienced shooters.  They were in a rush to transition and threw the second shot of the target before transitioning to the next target.  Anyways, nothing new and just a matter of mind focusing on task 8-9-10 and not taking care of 1-2-3 first.   >:(

3) This was my second match after surgery I had in late 2018.  There are some lingering effects and is/was something that prevented me from shooting matches in pretty much all of 2019.  While I still have to be mindful of that, I didn't really notice that it hindered me in the match this past weekend.  I'm back to enjoying shooting the matches again.  Of course not as mobile or fleet-of-foot as I was 2-3+ years ago, but finding a way to "use what I've got" in an activity that I enjoy is an awesome feeling.  I'm becoming the older guy that shoots well, but slow(er) on the running, more like fast walk, in between shooting positions.  At least in my mind.   ;D  :rofl:

4) Throttle control was awesome at times and really bad at others.  I shot the steel plate rack decently and got the lower percentage smaller steel targets/activator 1/1 (normally a nemesis of mine), so I was happy with the control there.  Where I suffered was in stages 3 and 4 I made a point to shoot the paper faster.  I thought I had throttled back on the lower percentage targets to get the proper hits, but that didn't happen for more than a few times.  Looking back at the video, I did throttle things back on some of the lower percentage targets, but apparently not enough.  I also could have pushed the pace on some of the higher percentage targets.  At the end of one stage, I saw at least one 'mike' and I said out loud "went to fast".  That got a laugh from a couple guys in my squad who heard it and they were like "no such thing!"  :rofl: What I meant was I went too fast on targets that I should've throttled back a little and the hits, or lack thereof was apparent.  I also notice this when I have a couple of good stages and get too cocky on the following stages.  Push the throttle a little too much and hits go down.  I don't mind the hits going down, but not when they turn into 'mikes'. 

5) There were a number of new shooters in the match.  The new shooter in my group was pretty good and good guy to talk to.  He was safe and was having a lot of fun.  That said, there were a few shooters I saw in other squads that needed correction more than a few times and a few DQs  :(  I saw a couple that had some pretty bad habits (mostly trigger finger). 

6) There were a number of malfunctioning guns.  One had a bad extractor that was "tuned" by the owner.  They were not able to correct the issue and that ended that guy's day.  When I was taking a water break, a guy from the squad came over to drink water the same time and he was like "see, that's why some things should only be done by gunsmiths".  I generally don't tinker with my guns much, but in general I agree. 

A fun day on the range with a bunch of like minded and cool guys.  Of course friendly competition and good nature ribbing keeps things fun.  The weather was spotty, but overall was pretty nice all day.  Looking forward to more matches.  Gotta keep an eye out for ammo sales again.   ;D

And I didn't finish last. . .  ;)  ;D  8)  :geekdanc:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on January 06, 2020, 08:34:03 PM
since I own no firearms or ammo, I could only watch
there was one guy that broke the 180
he might have even broke the 215
I swiftly walked behind drck and the 101/newby
also noticed sodie ducking behind me (who says there is no I in Tim?)

Shot a pistol match over the weekend.  Had been spending a good amount of time working on some things recently, so I was looking forward to seeing that effort pay off.  Well, it did and didn't  :( :facepalm: 

Some notes:
1) Made a rookie mistake, which I've actually done before, by shooting a match (or training shoot) with new gear.  I had all new factory mags for this match.  Well, I did use two of them in a range session a couple of days before and didn't have any malfunctions.  However, on the first stage, a malfunction messed up what was otherwise a pretty good and clean run.  Hits were mostly good, but the time to clear the malfunction is what cost me on that stage.  The malfunction also messed up the plan for the stage.  After watching the video, I noticed that my reloads and sequence seemed thrown off after the malfunction.  It happens and I should be better at recovering from stuff like that.  Noticed that "first fumble" also messed up a number of other shooters, especially on the first stage of the day.  Again, something that I should be better at working through.  At least looking back at the malfunction clearance, I caught it quickly and cleared it quickly.  Just that time cost me. . .  I also noticed old habits crept back in after that "first fumble".  Something I'll have to work on (among many other things).

2) Target transitions was something I had been working on also recently.  Both dry practice and in a couple of sessions at the range and in the action bays.  It was something that a couple of stages presented opportunities to see my progress.  First one wasn't great as I think I was focused on the low percentage first shot, fumbled the mandatory reload and threw things off on everything that followed.  Since I fumbled, I think I rushed the transition between target 2 and target 3 and I think I threw the second shot on target 2 in the rush to get to target 3.  Looking back at the video, my transition seemed good.  I think I was just in a rush to make up the time that I didn't "finish" well on target 2.  That was actually something I saw happen with number of experienced shooters.  They were in a rush to transition and threw the second shot of the target before transitioning to the next target.  Anyways, nothing new and just a matter of mind focusing on task 8-9-10 and not taking care of 1-2-3 first.   >:(

3) This was my second match after surgery I had in late 2018.  There are some lingering effects and is/was something that prevented me from shooting matches in pretty much all of 2019.  While I still have to be mindful of that, I didn't really notice that it hindered me in the match this past weekend.  I'm back to enjoying shooting the matches again.  Of course not as mobile or fleet-of-foot as I was 2-3+ years ago, but finding a way to "use what I've got" in an activity that I enjoy is an awesome feeling.  I'm becoming the older guy that shoots well, but slow(er) on the running, more like fast walk, in between shooting positions.  At least in my mind.   ;D  :rofl:

4) Throttle control was awesome at times and really bad at others.  I shot the steel plate rack decently and got the lower percentage smaller steel targets/activator 1/1 (normally a nemesis of mine), so I was happy with the control there.  Where I suffered was in stages 3 and 4 I made a point to shoot the paper faster.  I thought I had throttled back on the lower percentage targets to get the proper hits, but that didn't happen for more than a few times.  Looking back at the video, I did throttle things back on some of the lower percentage targets, but apparently not enough.  I also could have pushed the pace on some of the higher percentage targets.  At the end of one stage, I saw at least one 'mike' and I said out loud "went to fast".  That got a laugh from a couple guys in my squad who heard it and they were like "no such thing!"  :rofl: What I meant was I went too fast on targets that I should've throttled back a little and the hits, or lack thereof was apparent.  I also notice this when I have a couple of good stages and get too cocky on the following stages.  Push the throttle a little too much and hits go down.  I don't mind the hits going down, but not when they turn into 'mikes'. 

5) There were a number of new shooters in the match.  The new shooter in my group was pretty good and good guy to talk to.  He was safe and was having a lot of fun.  That said, there were a few shooters I saw in other squads that needed correction more than a few times and a few DQs  :(  I saw a couple that had some pretty bad habits (mostly trigger finger). 

6) There were a number of malfunctioning guns.  One had a bad extractor that was "tuned" by the owner.  They were not able to correct the issue and that ended that guy's day.  When I was taking a water break, a guy from the squad came over to drink water the same time and he was like "see, that's why some things should only be done by gunsmiths".  I generally don't tinker with my guns much, but in general I agree. 

A fun day on the range with a bunch of like minded and cool guys.  Of course friendly competition and good nature ribbing keeps things fun.  The weather was spotty, but overall was pretty nice all day.  Looking forward to more matches.  Gotta keep an eye out for ammo sales again.   ;D

And I didn't finish last. . .  ;)  ;D  8)  :geekdanc:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 06, 2020, 10:01:50 PM
Only 1 guy was there just to watch because he owns no firearms, ammo, reloading equipment, body armor, and comms.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 07, 2020, 10:30:35 AM
since I own no firearms or ammo, I could only watch
there was one guy that broke the 180
he might have even broke the 215
I swiftly walked behind drck and the 101/newby
also noticed sodie ducking behind me (who says there is no I in Tim?)
When we were on stage 3, I was watching the shooter on stage 4.  He picked up the gun, racked the slide when the gun was still horizontal at about waist level and them BAM right away.  He then raised the gun to get his two handed shooting grip and took another two shots.  I saw that and was like "Whoa!".  "Sodie" was in between where I was sitting and the shooter, but he was relaxing comfortably in his chair and on his phone.  My "whoa!" startled him and he looked at me and was like "what happened?" 

Only 1 guy was there just to watch because he owns no firearms, ammo, reloading equipment, body armor, and comms.

Sounds like 1 boring guy. . .  :rofl:

But seriously, the matches are fun and very newbie friendly.  Muzzle and trigger discipline are of course critical.  Beyond that, enjoy the challenge of shooting competition.  Yeah, there are some that take it quite seriously.  While I would say I am competitive and want to do well, I'm mostly there to have fun and enjoy shooting. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on January 07, 2020, 11:19:32 AM
When we were on stage 3, I was watching the shooter on stage 4.  He picked up the gun, racked the slide when the gun was still horizontal at about waist level and them BAM right away.  He then raised the gun to get his two handed shooting grip and took another two shots.  I saw that and was like "Whoa!".  "Sodie" was in between where I was sitting and the shooter, but he was relaxing comfortably in his chair and on his phone.  My "whoa!" startled him and he looked at me and was like "what happened?" 
Sounds like 1 boring guy. . .  :rofl:

But seriously, the matches are fun and very newbie friendly.  Muzzle and trigger discipline are of course critical.  Beyond that, enjoy the challenge of shooting competition.  Yeah, there are some that take it quite seriously.  While I would say I am competitive and want to do well, I'm mostly there to have fun and enjoy shooting.

was it the same guy that got DQ'd on stage 3?
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 07, 2020, 12:27:22 PM
was it the same guy that got DQ'd on stage 3?
No. The guy I was talking about had a red shirt. The guy we saw on stage 4 had a white shirt l, at least I think.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 16, 2020, 08:43:29 AM
Had a training session this past weekend where I was able to shoot both handgun with RDS and carbine.  That included training for myself as well as time dedicated to helping others as well. 

Notes:
1) Have been shooting mostly handgun (both with RDS and iron sights) lately, so was good to shoot carbine again.  I shot a newer setup with a Geissele rail and Aimpoint CompM5.  I had only shot this gun to zero the dot and irons previously.  I've had carbines with Aimpoint T-1 and other "simple" red dots previously.  That said, my current preference for red dot is the EoTech.  I still do very much appreciate Aimpoints, especially the battery life.  Was a little rusty with some drills where holdovers was key, but not too bad.  Tried to push the pace on some of the shot strings and started throwing hits out of the intended target, so had to throttle things back down a bit.  Was good to get a decent amount of rounds through this newer setup as well as test a couple of things.  First was the ammo I was shooting was pretty low powered (crappy ammo) and had some troubles with a mid-length upper that ran fine with 193 and 855.  This was a carbine length upper and it ate up all of that crappy ammo just fine.  Second was testing this rail and rail covers for heat.  I had been shooting carbine courses with gloves where at many times the upper got hot enough where it would have been painful to continue shooting without gloves.  Tried the Centurion rail covers and did some strings of fire enough to get the portion of the rail away from the covers hot enough that it was uncomfortable without gloves and it was fine in the areas with the covers.

2) Spent a bunch of time shooting my Glock 17 with RDS.  I had been doing a bunch of dry fire to both increase the pace of draw as well as picking up the dot.  Also wanted to try a tip to help with picking the dot back up in higher paced strings of fire.  I thought my draws felt quick, but when I watched the video later, it seemed "not so fast or smooth" after a few shot strings.  I had been picking up the pace with the shot strings and employment of the "hand vice" action helped with the picking the dot back up after a shot.  But I think I was "activating" that pressure before full extension and it slowed down the draw in about the last 4-6".  Shared the video with an instructor who I had been interacting with on IG and he picked that up as well.  Did some dry fire last night and consciously holding off the "activation" of the pressure till just about full extension (or at least as far as I typically extend) really helped bring the draw time down. 

3) The Competition Electronic's shot times does NOT like training in the rain.  Was using the shot timer for a number of drills and I noticed that the window was fogging up.  It eventually stopped working and wouldn't shut off.  A friend had a PACT timer and it worked just fine, even through the rain.  The timer was fine after allowing it to dry out though.

4) Used an older gear belt that I hadn't used in quite a while.  It's the 2-layer type belt with velcro inner and outer belt.  I used to use it quite a bit, but had not in the last 2 years or so.  Anyways, since then, I started using Lancer mags more frequently, whereas I used to use primarily USGI mags.  Well, the mags didn't work well with the pouches on this belt.  The Lancer mags have these ribs on the body of the mag that are wider than the section that goes into the magwell.  That difference in thickness caused the mags to bind up pretty good in the pouch.  I will likely keep this belt setup as-is as I don't want to spend more $$$ on pouches, but have to remember that it doesn't work well with the Lancer mags.  Thankfully the Lancer mags work just fine with the belt setup that I had been using regularly. 

Overall a very fun day on the range, even with the wet weather conditions.  It was nice to have a day on the range where things were cooler, rather than super hot and dusty.   ;D

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on January 16, 2020, 09:11:30 AM
No. The guy I was talking about had a red shirt. The guy we saw on stage 4 had a white shirt l, at least I think.

I didn't notice the color of his shirt
I was too busy taking cover behind you...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2020, 01:06:48 PM
Shot a match this past weekend.  Have been putting time into improving my handgun shooting the past many weeks and always look forward to seeing if improvement shows in competition.  Overall, it was good, bad, and almost ugly.  One of the main things I have been working on is speeding up in the "lost time areas".  Speeding up the draw, transitions, economy of motion, etc, in addition to good marksmanship fundamentals.  Saw some in what I've been working on, but some other aspects suffered at times.  Sort of like golf when you have good rounds in some parts of your game where a really good round is when you are able to have things clicking in all aspects.  That wasn't me this past weekend. . .

Notes:
1) I did well in the previous match.  I tend to push things more after having a good match result and about half the time, my hits suffer as I push things a bit too far.  That was the case in the first two stages this past weekend.  My times were really good, but my hits suffered.  I noticed that and buckled back down in stage 3, which ended up being my best stage of the day. 

2) Need to get better at "resetting" in the middle of a stage, especially when something goes off plan.  Be it a miss or so on steel changing "the plan".  It's something you see all the time where after someone has a malfunction or something else that throws things off.  I should be better at working through those things, but I felt sort of just off the first two stages.  A part of why I shoot matches is the "practical" aspect of the matches, so need to be better at "working the problem".

3) Watching video after showed that parts of what I have been working on improved, but sadly some things that I am usually solid on suffered.  When training, common recommendation is to have a plan to work on certain things in a training session.  However, can't be at expense of good fundamentals.  Video is great for that as many times you feel like you're doing something where the video shows otherwise. 

Fun day on the range.  Didn't see anything unsafe.  Saw a few shooters have troubles with their guns malfunctioning or ammo problems.  That can make for a frustrating game, but interesting how people react to that.  Some get super frustrated and some just quietly continue on.  Luckily no gun or ammo problems for me this past weekend.  Just the hits weren't going where I wanted.  :P  "A friend" almost beat me too. . .  :(  :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on January 20, 2020, 01:13:40 PM
Shot a match this past weekend.  Have been putting time into improving my handgun shooting the past many weeks and always look forward to seeing if improvement shows in competition.  Overall, it was good, bad, and almost ugly.  One of the main things I have been working on is speeding up in the "lost time areas".  Speeding up the draw, transitions, economy of motion, etc, in addition to good marksmanship fundamentals.  Saw some in what I've been working on, but some other aspects suffered at times.  Sort of like golf when you have good rounds in some parts of your game where a really good round is when you are able to have things clicking in all aspects.  That wasn't me this past weekend. . .

Notes:
1) I did well in the previous match.  I tend to push things more after having a good match result and about half the time, my hits suffer as I push things a bit too far.  That was the case in the first two stages this past weekend.  My times were really good, but my hits suffered.  I noticed that and buckled back down in stage 3, which ended up being my best stage of the day. 

2) Need to get better at "resetting" in the middle of a stage, especially when something goes off plan.  Be it a miss or so on steel changing "the plan".  It's something you see all the time where after someone has a malfunction or something else that throws things off.  I should be better at working through those things, but I felt sort of just off the first two stages.  A part of why I shoot matches is the "practical" aspect of the matches, so need to be better at "working the problem".

3) Watching video after showed that parts of what I have been working on improved, but sadly some things that I am usually solid on suffered.  When training, common recommendation is to have a plan to work on certain things in a training session.  However, can't be at expense of good fundamentals.  Video is great for that as many times you feel like you're doing something where the video shows otherwise. 

Fun day on the range.  Didn't see anything unsafe.  Saw a few shooters have troubles with their guns malfunctioning or ammo problems.  That can make for a frustrating game, but interesting how people react to that.  Some get super frustrated and some just quietly continue on.  Luckily no gun or ammo problems for me this past weekend.  Just the hits weren't going where I wanted.  :P  "A friend" almost beat me too. . .  :(  :rofl:

no focus

heads
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2020, 01:36:41 PM
no focus

heads
Need more springs (instead of amps)
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on January 20, 2020, 01:42:06 PM
Need more springs (instead of amps)

more amps in the springs would've made a difference in stage 3 (and the match)...

heads

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2020, 01:51:25 PM
There were some new shooters at the match this past weekend. One was friend of a HS classmate of mine who was there to observe. They are newer to firearms and was good to have them in the same squad for some familiar faces. The new shooter in our group did well. Had some really good hits and took home time and was safe. He had fun and hopefully will see him and his other friends in future matches. Many are hesitant to jump in, but I think having someone they recognize helps. I didn’t k or anyone when I started, but most of the people in the matches are are ready and willing to help. Just like the firearms community in general where most folks want to share their enthusiasm with others.

A few people have msged me about matches and training. Encourage all to come out and shoot. In the mean time, happy to answer any questions. Best to discuss here so that others who might be too shy to ask can see as well. But happy to answer via PM as well.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2020, 01:52:12 PM
more amps in the springs would've made a difference in stage 3 (and the match)...

heads
Maybe 🤔

My lack of focus certainly hurt  :(
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on January 20, 2020, 02:04:47 PM
There were some new shooters at the match this past weekend. One was friend of a HS classmate of mine who was there to observe. They are newer to firearms and was good to have them in the same squad for some familiar faces. The new shooter in our group did well. Had some really good hits and took home time and was safe. He had fun and hopefully will see him and his other friends in future matches. Many are hesitant to jump in, but I think having someone they recognize helps. I didn’t k or anyone when I started, but most of the people in the matches are are ready and willing to help. Just like the firearms community in general where most folks want to share their enthusiasm with others.

A few people have msged me about matches and training. Encourage all to come out and shoot. In the mean time, happy to answer any questions. Best to discuss here so that others who might be too shy to ask can see as well. But happy to answer via PM as well.  :thumbsup:

i saw that newby while i was observing the match
he had some good hits and had decent mechanics (it helped that he was not a small dude too)

maybe i should buy some firearms and ammo and check it out someday...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 21, 2020, 08:52:58 AM
i saw that newby while i was observing the match
he had some good hits and had decent mechanics (it helped that he was not a small dude too)

maybe i should buy some firearms and ammo and check it out someday...
He seemed to be a solid shooter.  He needed some caution on trigger finger discipline here and there from the RO, but muzzle discipline was solid.  Best overall was he was having a great time and you could tell.  He was definitely nervous and apprehensive on the first stage and it was less and less as the day went on.  Could tell he was getting more comfortable by stage 4 as he was pushing the pace a bit, while still being safe. 

Yeah, you should stop being a voyeur and jump in.   :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 21, 2020, 02:29:11 PM
There were some new shooters at the match this past weekend. One was friend of a HS classmate of mine who was there to observe. They are newer to firearms and was good to have them in the same squad for some familiar faces. The new shooter in our group did well. Had some really good hits and took home time and was safe. He had fun and hopefully will see him and his other friends in future matches. Many are hesitant to jump in, but I think having someone they recognize helps. I didn’t k or anyone when I started, but most of the people in the matches are are ready and willing to help. Just like the firearms community in general where most folks want to share their enthusiasm with others.

A few people have msged me about matches and training. Encourage all to come out and shoot. In the mean time, happy to answer any questions. Best to discuss here so that others who might be too shy to ask can see as well. But happy to answer via PM as well.  :thumbsup:

^^^This 100%.  As the new guy still (First firearm in 2016), having a friendly face always helps big time.  Even for me going to the bench/pistol side for the 1st time was very intimidating.  I had a friend take me and show me the billy goat.

I met 2 pretty cool dudes at a match 2 weeks ago who I was able to watch, just to observe.

That's why when ever I invite friends to open shoots for the 1st time, I make sure I'm there.  So I can guide and show the do's/don'ts.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on January 21, 2020, 04:45:17 PM
^^^This 100%.  As the new guy still (First firearm in 2016), having a friendly face always helps big time.  Even for me going to the bench/pistol side for the 1st time was very intimidating.  I had a friend take me and show me the billy goat.

I met 2 pretty cool dudes at a match 2 weeks ago who I was able to watch, just to observe.

That's why when ever I invite friends to open shoots for the 1st time, I make sure I'm there.  So I can guide and show the do's/don'ts.

cool dudes?
those guys were kooks...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 21, 2020, 05:07:54 PM
cool dudes?
those guys were kooks...
1 had tourettes

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 22, 2020, 11:43:32 AM
^^^This 100%.  As the new guy still (First firearm in 2016), having a friendly face always helps big time.  Even for me going to the bench/pistol side for the 1st time was very intimidating.  I had a friend take me and show me the billy goat.

I met 2 pretty cool dudes at a match 2 weeks ago who I was able to watch, just to observe.

That's why when ever I invite friends to open shoots for the 1st time, I make sure I'm there.  So I can guide and show the do's/don'ts.
I've heard many a stories where some ROs have ruined things for new shooters.  While I can understand their perspective having served as RO/RSO at other venues, there are times when some of them have taken things a bit too far. 

Being there for newer shooters definitely helps.  Helps them be more at ease in an environment that probably has most first timers pretty nervous.  Especially true for my friends' SOs.  If they end up hating it, it's a constant uphill battle for my friend.   :(

cool dudes?
those guys were kooks...
I heard one of those kooks typically scores higher than the other kook. . . depends on focus level though. . .  :P
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 27, 2020, 09:12:43 AM
Took a HDF pistol skill builder this weekend.  It was fun and we got to shoot a lot more than the last few ones.  IIRC, the last few we only shot about 150ish rounds.  This time was about 300+/

It started with a 5 yard target (6 inch circle) and from holster get 5 shots in it as fast as your skill allows.  Then the next was the same 5 shots in the circle, followed by 5 shots in a rectangle the size of a Razor phone.  I did pretty well, but noticed that I tend to peek a lot inbetween shots to see if I'm getting hits.  When I peek, I drop the next shot about 4 inches low.  So I had to focus on trusting my POA/POI that it will be where I put it.  Once I did that, I stayed inside both targets for all 10 rds.

At the end we did an exercise.  From holster, get 3 hits on steal at 35ish yards that was about 4 inches x 12 inches. Do a tactical reload and get 3 more hits.  All under 10 seconds.  And complete this back to back (2 times in a row).  My constant was about 15 seconds.  The problem was during the tac reload, putting the partial mag back in my holder.  So instead of dicking around with that, I kept the partial mag in-between my index and middle finger (flashlight style, see pic).  I was able to do 1 string at 9.44 seconds.  I failed to do it back to back.

Only 2 guys were able to complete the task back to back.  Both are better shots than me and were running red dots.  I was using irons.  1 had a race 1911 9mm, the other X-5 Legion.  I was using my VP9.  Only 1 other guy was able to do 1 string under 10 seconds, but he too was running a red dot. Damn cheaters.  I might look into a red dot sooner than I expected after this.  Pretty much the entire class was running red dots.

So things I learned:

1) Have confidence in my equipment, no peeking

2) When doing a tac reload under time, keep the mag in my hand.  If time allows, then put back in the holder/pocket.  May play a roll if using pistol for home defense.  How many people will be in their boxers (no pockets) and bring an extra mag with their pistol with them at 3 am?  Worst case, put the mag in  your mouth (nohomo).  Not like we can have a 32rd extendo clip.

3) I noticed fatigue setting in toward the end and my grip was looser than normal.  Not sure hot to train this when I only shoot once a month.  The sun, heat, weight of equipment all are a factor in fatigue.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 27, 2020, 09:13:23 AM
Holding partial mag(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200127/f3bf17d1db75626cf9d844d364acaaaf.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 27, 2020, 09:31:30 AM
Spent a bunch of time at the range this past weekend.  Awesome weather, awesome people, awesome times!

Took one of my best friend's son to the silhouette range, along with his uncle (also a really good friend).  Always fun taking younger shooters to the range.  My friend has his own guns, but doesn't get to shoot that often, so it was good to get him out and shoot as well.  Ended up playing HORSE, calling shots on steel.  That was pretty fun.

Did some handgun with RDS and rifle training as well.  Have been mostly shooting handgun lately, so it was good to bust out the long gun.

Notes/highlights:

1) I often extend invitations to take people shooting and I rarely get positive responses.  When I do get the "yeah, I'm in", it usually energizes me to go even more.  However, this past weekend, we ended up staying out later than I thought the night before the silhouette range.  So when my friend's son texted me in the morning with "are we still going shooting?" and I wanted to sleep in, I wasn't as energized.  Even moreso that I had to drive from town to windward side to pick him up. . . haha.  But all good  ;D

2) Had a lot of discussion on gear choices during/after training.  Lots of different perspectives.  I'm of the mindset that I want to try for myself and see how I like it.  If people ask me about my setup, I am happy to explain why I have it that way.  And while I certainly have my favorite items, I openly encourage folks to find out what works for them.  Then there are others who openly push for people to go with what their preferred setup is, usually without asking the interested party what they are trying to get out of their gear. 

3) Started off training day with a "cold" drill and another simple drill.  I shot both well and was feeling pretty good.  Started pushing things in later exercises, both pace and "aim small, miss small", but noticed things going awry in both regards.  Was able to sort of buckle back down and clean things up, mostly with handgun.  Sort of reminded myself to always maintain fundamentals. 

4) The experience of the folks that we shot with was quite varied.  However, it was good that the group kept everyone safe and facilitated progression of the individual.  Believe that is essential to get newer shooters to come out and shoot as well as keep them engaged. 

5) I have been shooting different platforms a lot lately, but think I need to dedicate more time to the "go to".  While I will always enjoy shooting different guns, I've noticed things when going back and forth often between platforms that are quite different.

Continuing to shoot pretty consistently this year.  Hope to be able to keep it up. 

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 27, 2020, 09:42:49 AM
Took a HDF pistol skill builder this weekend.  It was fun and we got to shoot a lot more than the last few ones.  IIRC, the last few we only shot about 150ish rounds.  This time was about 300+/

It started with a 5 yard target (6 inch circle) and from holster get 5 shots in it as fast as your skill allows.  Then the next was the same 5 shots in the circle, followed by 5 shots in a rectangle the size of a Razor phone.  I did pretty well, but noticed that I tend to peek a lot inbetween shots to see if I'm getting hits.  When I peek, I drop the next shot about 4 inches low.  So I had to focus on trusting my POA/POI that it will be where I put it.  Once I did that, I stayed inside both targets for all 10 rds.

At the end we did an exercise.  From holster, get 3 hits on steal at 35ish yards that was about 4 inches x 12 inches. Do a tactical reload and get 3 more hits.  All under 10 seconds.  And complete this back to back (2 times in a row).  My constant was about 15 seconds.  The problem was during the tac reload, putting the partial mag back in my holder.  So instead of dicking around with that, I kept the partial mag in-between my index and middle finger (flashlight style, see pic).  I was able to do 1 string at 9.44 seconds.  I failed to do it back to back.

Only 2 guys were able to complete the task back to back.  Both are better shots than me and were running red dots.  I was using irons.  1 had a race 1911 9mm, the other X-5 Legion.  I was using my VP9.  Only 1 other guy was able to do 1 string under 10 seconds, but he too was running a red dot. Damn cheaters.  I might look into a red dot sooner than I expected after this.  Pretty much the entire class was running red dots.

So things I learned:

1) Have confidence in my equipment, no peeking

2) When doing a tac reload under time, keep the mag in my hand.  If time allows, then put back in the holder/pocket.  May play a roll if using pistol for home defense.  How many people will be in their boxers (no pockets) and bring an extra mag with their pistol with them at 3 am?  Worst case, put the mag in  your mouth (nohomo).  Not like we can have a 32rd extendo clip.

3) I noticed fatigue setting in toward the end and my grip was looser than normal.  Not sure hot to train this when I only shoot once a month.  The sun, heat, weight of equipment all are a factor in fatigue.
Good stuff! Thank you for sharing!   :thumbsup:

300 rounds in that timeframe is a good amount of trigger time!  Prairie dogging is pretty common and one that an observant instructor noticed me doing a while back and like you, it definitely showed on the target. 

Shots on that size steel (little smaller than the USPSA A-zone) at 35 yards isn't that easy.  Of course add to it pressure of competition, shooting against your buddies, etc.  Performance levels of open division 1911/2011 guns are definitely awesome.  Especially if they are shooting "poof poof" ammo.   ;D

Fatigue is something I definitely notice as well, particularly when I am not shooting often.  I was pretty smoked after the training day this past weekend.  There are some simple exercises that you can do that will help with some of that, but there are certain muscles/movements that you really only get in live fire.  You should definitely come out to a pistol match soon. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 27, 2020, 10:43:50 AM

2) Had a lot of discussion on gear choices during/after training.  Lots of different perspectives.  I'm of the mindset that I want to try for myself and see how I like it.  If people ask me about my setup, I am happy to explain why I have it that way.  And while I certainly have my favorite items, I openly encourage folks to find out what works for them.  Then there are others who openly push for people to go with what their preferred setup is, usually without asking the interested party what they are trying to get out of their gear. 



There was a guy who it was his 1st handgun class.  Told him just have fun and learn.  The biggest thing to remember besides safety is train through any issues.  He asked about gear b4 the class began, and I told him he will figure it out by the time class ends and after reflecting the next few days.  His mag also fell out when he was shooting once.  Duuuu Maaaaa.  We laughed together.  He did come prepared with a Sharpie.  Most noobs don't bring one.  So that impressed me.  He was running a G45 with RDS.

Taught him some stuff in-between breaks like when reloading, aim the base of the pistol toward the mag holder.  He was keeping the pistol at the target when reloading. He noticed a huge difference in ease of reloading.

He also just bought an AR so was asking about sites and gear.  Told him at most, add a red dot and then take a carbine class.   Same principal, he will learn what he needs after the class is done.  His reasons are for HD and not anything long range.

After the class was done, he said he had way more fun than being on the pistol side. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 27, 2020, 12:04:11 PM
There was a guy who it was his 1st handgun class.  Told him just have fun and learn.  The biggest thing to remember besides safety is train through any issues.  He asked about gear b4 the class began, and I told him he will figure it out by the time class ends and after reflecting the next few days.  His mag also fell out when he was shooting once.  Duuuu Maaaaa.  We laughed together.  He did come prepared with a Sharpie.  Most noobs don't bring one.  So that impressed me.  He was running a G45 with RDS.

Taught him some stuff in-between breaks like when reloading, aim the base of the pistol toward the mag holder.  He was keeping the pistol at the target when reloading. He noticed a huge difference in ease of reloading.

He also just bought an AR so was asking about sites and gear.  Told him at most, add a red dot and then take a carbine class.   Same principal, he will learn what he needs after the class is done.  His reasons are for HD and not anything long range.

After the class was done, he said he had way more fun than being on the pistol side.
Gear choices can be daunting for someone just getting into it, as well as expensive.  The cost of gear is particularly "painful" for those just getting into shooting as the cost of guns and ammo can be quite a bit as well.  Being one who wants to try for myself, I have spent a LOT in gear.  To the point where I look for opportunities to give some stuff away to friends who either need gear or wanting to try something.  Many of us literally have boxes or bags of stuff we no longer use or bought and found didn't work for us. 

In the case of my shooting buddy, for many years he has stayed very basic with gear.  Sticking with a "gun belt" and simple holster and mag pouches.  He has recently gotten interested in different belt setups that many of us have.

Good that you helped out the new guy and made him feel comfortable.  That's always super helpful, particularly when you can share a laugh about the class. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 27, 2020, 01:10:03 PM


Good that you helped out the new guy and made him feel comfortable.  That's always super helpful, particularly when you can share a laugh about the class.

I told him b4 the class starts, don't drop a loaded mag by mistake.  He almost made it through the entire class.  Dropped it at the end..
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 27, 2020, 01:24:31 PM
I told him b4 the class starts, don't drop a loaded mag by mistake.  He almost made it through the entire class.  Dropped it at the end..
Could be worse.  I've seen full mags and even loaded handguns come out of holsters!  One class, the drill was to run maybe 50 yards to a table and back.  The whole way down, the rest of us saw his mags and stuff coming out of his dump pouch and mag pouches.  Don't think he had any ammo by the time he reached the table (half way).  "Yard sale!!!"  :rofl:

Yesterday, I had a 9 mm FMJ round that wouldn't chamber.  It has some sort of nick on the bullet head or something.  Of course, a buddy was making fun of me for that.  Later, his AR mag got hung up.   :rofl:  It happens. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 27, 2020, 01:36:31 PM
Can anyone find the Du Ma video?  It's an Asian dude shooting an AK.  He's supposed to be one of those IG expert shooters.  Drill started and he forgot to take the safety off so it went click.  All his friends (assuming Vietnamese also) were yelling Du Ma in the background as he looked at them with a disappointment look on his face.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on January 27, 2020, 01:42:17 PM
Could be worse.  I've seen full mags and even loaded handguns come out of holsters!  One class, the drill was to run maybe 50 yards to a table and back.  The whole way down, the rest of us saw his mags and stuff coming out of his dump pouch and mag pouches.  Don't think he had any ammo by the time he reached the table (half way).  "Yard sale!!!"  :rofl:

Yesterday, I had a 9 mm FMJ round that wouldn't chamber.  It has some sort of nick on the bullet head or something.  Of course, a buddy was making fun of me for that.  Later, his AR mag got hung up.   :rofl:  It happens. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 27, 2020, 01:59:13 PM
SNIP
It was only one boolit head. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: WTF?Shane on January 27, 2020, 02:41:00 PM
Yesterday, I had a 9 mm FMJ round that wouldn't chamber.  It has some sort of nick on the bullet head or something.  Of course, a buddy was making fun of me for that.  Later, his AR mag got hung up.   :rofl:  It happens. . .

What gun were you shooting?

I was loading up mags Friday night to shoot on Saturday. I noticed one bullet (Speer Lawman) with a good sized nick. I figured if it was good if it passed QC. Everything fed and shot perfect out of my 19.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 27, 2020, 04:26:09 PM
What gun were you shooting?

I was loading up mags Friday night to shoot on Saturday. I noticed one bullet (Speer Lawman) with a good sized nick. I figured if it was good if it passed QC. Everything fed and shot perfect out of my 19.
It was a Glock 19 and Blazer Brass.  I was trying to chamber a single round and the slide hung up.  I thought at first it may have been something with the mag, like dirt of something getting pushed up by the follower.  Dropped the mag and didn't notice any debris, so I pulled the round from the mag and noticed the nick.  Later, I put that round second to the last in the mag and it chambered and fired just fine. 

I've been shooting a lot of Blazer Brass lately, including matches.  Hadn't seen that, or at least I didn't notice.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 27, 2020, 09:07:58 PM
What gun were you shooting?

I was loading up mags Friday night to shoot on Saturday. I noticed one bullet (Speer Lawman) with a good sized nick. I figured if it was good if it passed QC. Everything fed and shot perfect out of my 19.
He's the ammo bum. Finds unfired rounds on the ground and shoots them later.

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on January 27, 2020, 09:33:48 PM
He's the ammo bum. Finds unfired rounds on the ground and shoots them later.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

tips
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on January 27, 2020, 10:14:20 PM
tips
Clips

And gotta watch out for the poof poof stuff, so I only shoot ammo that I bring to the range. Good for smaller than jabon sized groups. 😝
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 10, 2020, 03:06:02 PM
Range day this past weekend with time dedicated to carbine in the morning and then I worked on RDS handgun a little in the afternoon.  Cool morning session, which was very nice.  Some say "if it ain't raining, it ain't training", but I absolutely love the weather we've been having of late.  Hope it continues well into spring!

Some notes:

1) Focus was on sling in combination with the carbine.  Many folks don't get to shoot their carbine with slings very much, especially with limited range facilities on Oahu.  While I have had a good amount of exposure to shooting carbine with sling, always good to practice.  Over the years, I have molded my sling setup from a couple of influential instructors.  While I am always open to alternate solutions, it was good to see that my setup worked with what we worked on yesterday.

2) Two key things that I've noticed with folks who are shooting carbines (AR, AK, PCC, etc) with slings for the first time (or not that many range sessions) is setting up the sling size/length to ensure they are enabling shooting and not disabling.  First is enough space to work the charging handle and second is enough slack to be able to shoot in the desired positions/sides.  I am also not immune to that.  In a carbine skill builder about a year ago, I decided to try a stock position longer than I had previously and that adjustment without commensurate adjustment in the sling made for transitioning to support side very challenging. 

3) Was doing a good amount of shooting from support side and I am getting more used to the ambi features of my carbine.  While I am still probably more used to shooting with the "standard" safety, I've found that I like the ambi safety when shooting support side.  I've also found that I like the ambi charging handle as well.  Reloads on my support side was tougher than I recall previously, mostly to the reach to get to the spare mag.  I don't think I switched the pouch position much, so maybe I got fatter. . .  :( I think I actually lost weight, but anyways, something to work on in future.

4) Shooting with the RDS handgun continues to improve.  That said, I think much of my expectations with RDS handguns are skewed by ease of shooting RDS with rifle.  Worked on both reducing the draw time to first shot as well as multiple shots.  Was challenging myself a bit shooting on a 2" diameter shoot-n-see at about 10 yards.  Hits opened up when pushing times, but always good to work on fundamentals. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on February 10, 2020, 04:07:01 PM
Range day this past weekend with time dedicated to carbine in the morning and then I worked on RDS handgun a little in the afternoon.  Cool morning session, which was very nice.  Some say "if it ain't raining, it ain't training", but I absolutely love the weather we've been having of late.  Hope it continues well into spring!

Some notes:

1) Focus was on sling in combination with the carbine.  Many folks don't get to shoot their carbine with slings very much, especially with limited range facilities on Oahu.  While I have had a good amount of exposure to shooting carbine with sling, always good to practice.  Over the years, I have molded my sling setup from a couple of influential instructors.  While I am always open to alternate solutions, it was good to see that my setup worked with what we worked on yesterday.

2) Two key things that I've noticed with folks who are shooting carbines (AR, AK, PCC, etc) with slings for the first time (or not that many range sessions) is setting up the sling size/length to ensure they are enabling shooting and not disabling.  First is enough space to work the charging handle and second is enough slack to be able to shoot in the desired positions/sides.  I am also not immune to that.  In a carbine skill builder about a year ago, I decided to try a stock position longer than I had previously and that adjustment without commensurate adjustment in the sling made for transitioning to support side very challenging. 

3) Was doing a good amount of shooting from support side and I am getting more used to the ambi features of my carbine.  While I am still probably more used to shooting with the "standard" safety, I've found that I like the ambi safety when shooting support side.  I've also found that I like the ambi charging handle as well.  Reloads on my support side was tougher than I recall previously, mostly to the reach to get to the spare mag.  I don't think I switched the pouch position much, so maybe I got fatter. . .  :( I think I actually lost weight, but anyways, something to work on in future.

4) Shooting with the RDS handgun continues to improve.  That said, I think much of my expectations with RDS handguns are skewed by ease of shooting RDS with rifle.  Worked on both reducing the draw time to first shot as well as multiple shots.  Was challenging myself a bit shooting on a 2" diameter shoot-n-see at about 10 yards.  Hits opened up when pushing times, but always good to work on fundamentals.

shocking that it was easier to do ambi things with ambi equipment...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 10, 2020, 06:40:23 PM
shocking that it was easier to do ambi things with ambi equipment...
One day, when you grow up and graduate to owning a firearm, maybe you’ll understand  :P

 :rofl:

When I first got the ambi selector, I found myself rarely using the ambi/right side. Recently, I’ve found myself using it more and more.

I’ve been so used to non-ambi stuff that I still find myself sticking “old ways”, even with ambi features. With left hand shooting, I’ve found it fastest or more efficient to go with my firing hand thumb to take safety off (ambi selector enabled) and to go back on safe with the trigger finger of my firing hand.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on February 10, 2020, 07:20:18 PM
One day, when you grow up and graduate to owning a firearm, maybe you’ll understand  :P

 :rofl:

When I first got the ambi selector, I found myself rarely using the ambi/right side. Recently, I’ve found myself using it more and more.

I’ve been so used to non-ambi stuff that I still find myself sticking “old ways”, even with ambi features. With left hand shooting, I’ve found it fastest or more efficient to go with my firing hand thumb to take safety off (ambi selector enabled) and to go back on safe with the trigger finger of my firing hand.

pew pew pew
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 11, 2020, 09:40:18 AM


When I first got the ambi selector, I found myself rarely using the ambi/right side. Recently, I’ve found myself using it more and more.


Funny story, when I had to replace the wife's defaultive ELF trigger, we had the stock safety.  Only after the install, she then said she wanted an ambi one.  So I had to redo what I did when installing the new trigger ELF sent us free of charge and a more updated version also.  I called them and was transferred direct to the owner (Brian IIRC) which was cool.  He helped trouble shoot me with the current one.  Then said he will just mail me a new one.  And that I can keep the old one.

Long story short, she doesn't use the ambi safety (she's a lefty).  So all that effort put to waste.

I do find the ambi safety easier to engage/disengage than the stock one.  But I don't have an ambi on my rifle.  I don't want to get into the habit because if I have to use someone elses rifle and they don't have an ambi, that split second may cost me.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 11, 2020, 09:45:08 AM


2) Two key things that I've noticed with folks who are shooting carbines (AR, AK, PCC, etc) with slings for the first time (or not that many range sessions) is setting up the sling size/length to ensure they are enabling shooting and not disabling.  First is enough space to work the charging handle and second is enough slack to be able to shoot in the desired positions/sides.  I am also not immune to that.  In a carbine skill builder about a year ago, I decided to try a stock position longer than I had previously and that adjustment without commensurate adjustment in the sling made for transitioning to support side very challenging. 


I may have to play with my sling position.  when I reload, I'm in the high ready position.  And when the sling is attached, I can't be as high.  So my middle finger ends up rubbing on the trigger guard.  So much that I get a blister mid class.  I have a Geiselle handguard so 1 QD point is attached on the rail QD slot.  The other end is on my butt stock.  I have a Blue Force Gear VTAC sling.  I thought about lengthening it, but it's let out as much as can be.

DRCK, HDF carbine skill builder this month is requiring slings.  First time they're requiring slings for a non combo skill builder.  IDK if too late to sign up.  Class might not be as advanced as the one you attend though.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 11, 2020, 10:14:22 AM
Funny story, when I had to replace the wife's defaultive ELF trigger, we had the stock safety.  Only after the install, she then said she wanted an ambi one.  So I had to redo what I did when installing the new trigger ELF sent us free of charge and a more updated version also.  I called them and was transferred direct to the owner (Brian IIRC) which was cool.  He helped trouble shoot me with the current one.  Then said he will just mail me a new one.  And that I can keep the old one.

Long story short, she doesn't use the ambi safety (she's a lefty).  So all that effort put to waste.

I do find the ambi safety easier to engage/disengage than the stock one.  But I don't have an ambi on my rifle.  I don't want to get into the habit because if I have to use someone elses rifle and they don't have an ambi, that split second may cost me.
He helped trouble shoot you?  Or the trigger?  I thought you said it's the arrow, not the Indian. . .  :rofl: [i keed, i keed]

Maybe she doesn't use the safety yet.  Maybe have her dedicate some time to forcing herself to trying it and see. 

I see your point on the habit part of ambi features.  I personally teeter totter on that fence from time to time.  However, in general, any performance benefit or enabling feature is something I am interested in trying for myself. 

I may have to play with my sling position.  when I reload, I'm in the high ready position.  And when the sling is attached, I can't be as high.  So my middle finger ends up rubbing on the trigger guard.  So much that I get a blister mid class.  I have a Geiselle handguard so 1 QD point is attached on the rail QD slot.  The other end is on my butt stock.  I have a Blue Force Gear VTAC sling.  I thought about lengthening it, but it's let out as much as can be.

DRCK, HDF carbine skill builder this month is requiring slings.  First time they're requiring slings for a non combo skill builder.  IDK if too late to sign up.  Class might not be as advanced as the one you attend though.
That's the idea I was getting at.  If the sling is not enabling the primary function (or one of the enabling function in the reload), then that's no good.  In your case, sounds like more of discomfort than anything.  Maybe you need tougher skin on your hands. . .  ;D

I have a couple BFG VCAS slings.  One padded and one non.  I don't really use either and mostly have them at this point if someone else doesn't have a sling.  Let me know if you want to borrow one.  They have QDs on both ends and when I did used them, they had plenty of real estate left to lengthen. 

Thanks for the heads up on the HDF shoot.  Last time I shot a carbine skill builder with them, I used my sling.  I don't think I can make it this month.  Whether there is training on fundamentals to more advanced, I am always down.  Mostly a matter of time these days. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 11, 2020, 10:19:30 AM
He helped trouble shoot you?  Or the trigger?  I thought you said it's the arrow, not the Indian. . .  :rofl: [i keed, i keed]

Maybe she doesn't use the safety yet.  Maybe have her dedicate some time to forcing herself to trying it and see. 



She has shot her rifle a bunch since it's been built.  And I watch to see if she used the ambi safety and she doesn't.  She even mentioned to me that she doesn't use it and prefers the stock one. #facepalm.  But I can't complain to her because it might demotivate.  I just bitch to you guys about it.

The blister isn't that big of a deal.  Cause if I get a longer sling, then it will dangle more when running.  Right now it's perfect when I tighten it.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 11, 2020, 10:44:10 AM
She has shot her rifle a bunch since it's been built.  And I watch to see if she used the ambi safety and she doesn't.  She even mentioned to me that she doesn't use it and prefers the stock one. #facepalm.  But I can't complain to her because it might demotivate.  I just bitch to you guys about it.

The blister isn't that big of a deal.  Cause if I get a longer sling, then it will dangle more when running.  Right now it's perfect when I tighten it.
Yeah, fine line between what is motivation or criticism. 

Regarding the sling, I am having a hard time visualizing.  You're using a 2-point.  When you are shooting, is the slider tightened?  Or extended? 

Not the sling I use, nor how I utilize my sling, but here's a good video on setup for 2-pt sling.  Pretty close to how I setup when I did use the VCAS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoGh-tZtKKA

I tried to find the video of the setup for the sling that I am currently using, but I can't seem to find it.  I believe they are currently in the process of changing to a different manufacturer, so probably the reason why the video isn't up at this point (since it referenced the original manufacturer). 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 11, 2020, 11:22:18 AM


Regarding the sling, I am having a hard time visualizing.  You're using a 2-point.  When you are shooting, is the slider tightened?  Or extended? 

Not the sling I use, nor how I utilize my sling, but here's a good video on setup for 2-pt sling.  Pretty close to how I setup when I did use the VCAS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoGh-tZtKKA

I tried to find the video of the setup for the sling that I am currently using, but I can't seem to find it.  I believe they are currently in the process of changing to a different manufacturer, so probably the reason why the video isn't up at this point (since it referenced the original manufacturer).

Sling is fully extended when shooting, that tab is let go all the way.  Then when running, pulled tight.

https://geissele.com/super-modular-rail-mk14-m-lokr.html

QD is in the hole at the upper portion of the rail (the hole).  Maybe I gotta move it forward more.  Never got around to buying another QD attachment point because I only use the sling once a year.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 11, 2020, 11:43:48 AM
Sling is fully extended when shooting, that tab is let go all the way.  Then when running, pulled tight.

https://geissele.com/super-modular-rail-mk14-m-lokr.html

QD is in the hole at the upper portion of the rail (the hole).  Maybe I gotta move it forward more.  Never got around to buying another QD attachment point because I only use the sling once a year.
I think you're onto something there. . . :hmm:

 :rofl:

But seriously. . .

I attach the sling further out on the rail than that, but I have a rifle that I've used the QD point in the handguard in a similar spot as your rail (at the 3/9 oclock positions). 

When you said  "I thought about lengthening it, but it's let out as much as can be", did you mean you can't add slack to the overall sling length by adjusting the tri-glides at each end?  Or that when you have the adjustment tab/buckle all the way out, it's not enough space? 

Anyways, I have an extra Mlock QD mount.  My BCM upper came with one and I had already ordered a separate one.  You can have it to try it out.  At min, you can have it available to try different attachment positions to facilitate the HDF folks getting you sorted out. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 11, 2020, 01:02:46 PM
I think you're onto something there. . . :hmm:

 :rofl:

But seriously. . .

I attach the sling further out on the rail than that, but I have a rifle that I've used the QD point in the handguard in a similar spot as your rail (at the 3/9 oclock positions). 

When you said  "I thought about lengthening it, but it's let out as much as can be", did you mean you can't add slack to the overall sling length by adjusting the tri-glides at each end?  Or that when you have the adjustment tab/buckle all the way out, it's not enough space? 

Anyways, I have an extra Mlock QD mount.  My BCM upper came with one and I had already ordered a separate one.  You can have it to try it out.  At min, you can have it available to try different attachment positions to facilitate the HDF folks getting you sorted out.

The slack is let out at the tri-glides at each end.  Thanks for the vid, when he switches from strong side to support side, you can see the sling choke him.  Mine does the same, but I also have the padded VTAC one, plus wearing a plate carrier. Then add sweat on the neck so the material sticks more.

I'll go home tonight and take some pics.

On a side note, I have a single point that I attach to my Magpul end plate via a clip.  This sling is for when SHTF at home.  Not worried about running and the rifle dangling and hitting my nuts.  But I want some retention. It's fast, clip on and clip off.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 11, 2020, 06:37:49 PM
Sling(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200212/1517016e9bfb084153257f3419365097.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 11, 2020, 07:02:36 PM
The slack is let out at the tri-glides at each end.  Thanks for the vid, when he switches from strong side to support side, you can see the sling choke him.  Mine does the same, but I also have the padded VTAC one, plus wearing a plate carrier. Then add sweat on the neck so the material sticks more.

I'll go home tonight and take some pics.

On a side note, I have a single point that I attach to my Magpul end plate via a clip.  This sling is for when SHTF at home.  Not worried about running and the rifle dangling and hitting my nuts.  But I want some retention. It's fast, clip on and clip off.
If you have a BFG VTAC, you’ve got a quite a unique sling...

For shits and giggles, I adjusted my unpadded VCAS and put on my rifle with the QD close to the receiver and there’s plenty of room. I mean you “tik”, but not “dat tik”  :o


Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 11, 2020, 07:07:04 PM
Sling(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200212/1517016e9bfb084153257f3419365097.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
The adjuster is all the way forward in that pic.

I thought you had QD on the stock as well, but you have it looped through. Tough to tell from the pic how much length you lost via that, but you should still have plenty of room. I’ve seen that sling work well for pretty big dudes and the front was attached to near the muzzle end of the rail.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 12, 2020, 08:57:56 AM
The adjuster is all the way forward in that pic.

I thought you had QD on the stock as well, but you have it looped through. Tough to tell from the pic how much length you lost via that, but you should still have plenty of room. I’ve seen that sling work well for pretty big dudes and the front was attached to near the muzzle end of the rail.

The adjuster is all forward just for the pic.  But the slack on the side that attached to the stock is about 1.5 inches pass the plastic clip. I'm probably just more used to shooting with no sling.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 18, 2020, 09:36:21 AM
Shot a match this past weekend.  Weather was awesome and was a fun day on the range.  Shot like crap for most of the stages, but had a couple of stages where I was able to settle down and did well.  Even though I shot like crap, was good that my overall score was "decent".  And by decent, I meant relative in that I didn't lose to, well, someone who has been shooting quite a bit better in recent matches.   8)

Some notes:

1) NEVER forget fundamentals.  I have been working on economy of motion and reducing the "dead time".  That includes speeding up trannys (yes, I did that as tourettes bait  ;D ), being ready (body, gun, etc) when arriving on station, etc.  In previous matches (maybe 2-3 matches ago) I had shot quite well score wise with a high(ish) percentage of As, but times was where I seemed to suffer.  I was finishing behind folks that had much faster times, but with less A-zone hits, and even the mike or 2-3.  So I decided to try to push the times.  I did notice that my times were improving, but in some cases at the expense of good hits.  This past weekend, I guess I was so focused on speeding things up that my hits really suffered in the first two stages.  The first stage started off with an array of steel that I started off with a hit, but then some misses as I was transitioning to the next steel.  Had to relax and focus and get my hits and that cost me both time and throwing things off for the rest of the stage.

2) The "thrown off" from stage 1 continued on stage 2.  There were multiple swingers with a pair that was obscured by no shoots, with one target in particular with a pretty small window.  I was pretty focused on that first swinger and apparently so focused that I fcuked up the first static target.  Good news was that I got As on the swinger that I was so focused on, but messed up bad on the medium (not quite easy) target before it.  Was disappointed in myself for sure, but I also caught grief from others in my squad  :( which was well deserved.   :rofl:

3) Good thing that there was quite a bit of downtime between stages 2 and 3.  Enough that it allowed time to reset and it showed on the results.  I call equipment malfunction on stage 4 as I heard the hit on the #1 steel but it didn't fall, so it cost me another second or so for the pick up after the paper.  While I was happy with essentially 1 for 1 hits on steel, the pickup cost me the stage (when I looked at the results after) for my division.  Of course jokingly call equipment malfunction since there was a lot of interesting results on that stage.  Some folks were getting good center hits and the steel didn't fall and we would joke with them that their ammo was loaded too light.  I shoot factory ammo, so I usually don't have an issue that the "poof poof" guys do.   :rofl:  The RO said my hit on the first steel was off to the edge, so  :(

4) Stick to your game.  It's easy to get caught up in watching others in their runs through the stages.  Particularly the PCC guys who seem to blaze through the stages.  I find that I tend to want to match their pace and it usually costs me.  That was the case with our last stage, which was a qualifier.  The stage included two sets of two "easy" targets and a more difficult target that was obscured by a no-shoot.  I am usually cognizant of the pace on the transitions between high percentage to low percentage targets, but I think I flat out pushed things too much and hits suffered.   :(

While I shot like crap, I was actually wanting to get back on the range soon.  I think what I failed at can be readily corrected.  A lot of it is mental and just need to get out of my way at times.  Overall, a fun day on the range and look forward to more. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on February 18, 2020, 10:41:00 AM
you should always beat that guy by a lot
he doesn't even own any firearms, ammo, belt or holster...

Shot a match this past weekend.  Weather was awesome and was a fun day on the range.  Shot like crap for most of the stages, but had a couple of stages where I was able to settle down and did well.  Even though I shot like crap, was good that my overall score was "decent".  And by decent, I meant relative in that I didn't lose to, well, someone who has been shooting quite a bit better in recent matches.   8)

Some notes:

1) NEVER forget fundamentals.  I have been working on economy of motion and reducing the "dead time".  That includes speeding up trannys (yes, I did that as tourettes bait  ;D ), being ready (body, gun, etc) when arriving on station, etc.  In previous matches (maybe 2-3 matches ago) I had shot quite well score wise with a high(ish) percentage of As, but times was where I seemed to suffer.  I was finishing behind folks that had much faster times, but with less A-zone hits, and even the mike or 2-3.  So I decided to try to push the times.  I did notice that my times were improving, but in some cases at the expense of good hits.  This past weekend, I guess I was so focused on speeding things up that my hits really suffered in the first two stages.  The first stage started off with an array of steel that I started off with a hit, but then some misses as I was transitioning to the next steel.  Had to relax and focus and get my hits and that cost me both time and throwing things off for the rest of the stage.

2) The "thrown off" from stage 1 continued on stage 2.  There were multiple swingers with a pair that was obscured by no shoots, with one target in particular with a pretty small window.  I was pretty focused on that first swinger and apparently so focused that I fcuked up the first static target.  Good news was that I got As on the swinger that I was so focused on, but messed up bad on the medium (not quite easy) target before it.  Was disappointed in myself for sure, but I also caught grief from others in my squad  :( which was well deserved.   :rofl:

3) Good thing that there was quite a bit of downtime between stages 2 and 3.  Enough that it allowed time to reset and it showed on the results.  I call equipment malfunction on stage 4 as I heard the hit on the #1 steel but it didn't fall, so it cost me another second or so for the pick up after the paper.  While I was happy with essentially 1 for 1 hits on steel, the pickup cost me the stage (when I looked at the results after) for my division.  Of course jokingly call equipment malfunction since there was a lot of interesting results on that stage.  Some folks were getting good center hits and the steel didn't fall and we would joke with them that their ammo was loaded too light.  I shoot factory ammo, so I usually don't have an issue that the "poof poof" guys do.   :rofl:  The RO said my hit on the first steel was off to the edge, so  :(

4) Stick to your game.  It's easy to get caught up in watching others in their runs through the stages.  Particularly the PCC guys who seem to blaze through the stages.  I find that I tend to want to match their pace and it usually costs me.  That was the case with our last stage, which was a qualifier.  The stage included two sets of two "easy" targets and a more difficult target that was obscured by a no-shoot.  I am usually cognizant of the pace on the transitions between high percentage to low percentage targets, but I think I flat out pushed things too much and hits suffered.   :(

While I shot like crap, I was actually wanting to get back on the range soon.  I think what I failed at can be readily corrected.  A lot of it is mental and just need to get out of my way at times.  Overall, a fun day on the range and look forward to more.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 18, 2020, 11:36:39 AM
you should always beat that guy by a lot
he doesn't even own any firearms, ammo, belt or holster...
Sounds like quite a dull person. . .  :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Surf on February 19, 2020, 10:56:34 AM
Video is King, I think you are shooting it and going over game film.  If you want to share it with me I will review it, and personalize some training takeaways for you. 

We hope to get to our competition events.  Stage planning, target arrays, moving in and out, lots of reps of live fire stages.  That may need to be an extended 2 gun Big Island event for the serious.  ;)
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Drakiir84 on February 19, 2020, 02:10:11 PM
Video is King, I think you are shooting it and going over game film.  If you want to share it with me I will review it, and personalize some training takeaways for you. 

We hope to get to our competition events.  Stage planning, target arrays, moving in and out, lots of reps of live fire stages.  That may need to be an extended 2 gun Big Island event for the serious.  ;)

Now that's what I call a vacation.  Was super stoked for next month's class only to be reminded we're taking the baby to Maui to visit Great Grandpa on that weekend lol....
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 19, 2020, 08:10:56 PM
Video is King, I think you are shooting it and going over game film.  If you want to share it with me I will review it, and personalize some training takeaways for you. 

We hope to get to our competition events.  Stage planning, target arrays, moving in and out, lots of reps of live fire stages.  That may need to be an extended 2 gun Big Island event for the serious.  ;)
Yup, I have video.  Just like golf, excellent for analysis and improvement, but also can be tough pill to swallow at times.  Catching yourself doing stuff you either know you shouldn't do, know better, or wouldn't normally do and can't explain why you did that time.  Video doesn't lie though. . .  :(  While I am disappointed when I shoot poorly, but it also motivates me to put in the practice to improve.   ;D

Yeah, I'll take you up on that when you aren't as crazy busy.  Can always use training takeaways and always room for improvement. 

Shooting with better shooters would be awesome.  Live fire stages are something that I would love to put in more time with, particularly on the Big Island.   :geekdanc:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 19, 2020, 08:12:09 PM
Now that's what I call a vacation.  Was super stoked for next month's class only to be reminded we're taking the baby to Maui to visit Great Grandpa on that weekend lol....
Opportunities like that are priceless.  Experiences with Great Grandpa is particularly priceless though.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Drakiir84 on February 19, 2020, 10:43:35 PM
Opportunities like that are priceless.  Experiences with Great Grandpa is particularly priceless though.   
Yeah man.  Fortunately he's still in great shape and going strong.  He's seen the great grandkids a few times but it's so crazy how much development takes place in the early years.  And Zoey definitely takes after me.....  we're screwed lolol

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Surf on February 20, 2020, 08:08:10 PM
Now that's what I call a vacation.  Was super stoked for next month's class only to be reminded we're taking the baby to Maui to visit Great Grandpa on that weekend lol....
Not a problem my friend, family first, life's short.  There will be another time for shooting!
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 24, 2020, 11:39:28 AM
Took the HDF carbine skill builder which required a sling. They don't, unless it's the combo class (pistol/rifle).

Take aways

1) Half the group were new faces that I've never seen before.  Well that half had safety selector engagement issues.  They wouldn't engage safety between reloads or before moving.  At the end of the class, we all have to name "1 ah-ha moment".  And this half of the group was that.  The other half who are regulars all didn't have safety issues.

2) Lots of guys don't train with the sling.  They buy it, but you can tell they have trouble putting it on, taking off, reloading etc... So practice, practice, practice.

3) My "ah-ha" moment was when going down stairs, do a low ready.  This way you can get on target faster.  I always go high ready, so now I have to remember that if going down stairs.

4) A few months ago at the last carbine skill builder, we had to walk between 2 cones which were about 7 yards apart from each other.  Walk from A to B, and B to A while getting 1 hit on a bowling pin that was about 15 yards away.  Going left to right was easy because I'm a right hander.  But when walking back the other way, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.  I tried back peddling, switching to support side, and even twisting at the waist. Zero hits all exercise.  So this time I got redemption.  I shot from support side and got my hits easily.  Note: since this one was slung, I had to do a sling transition as well.

5) The newer guys didn't realize sight over bore.  But adjusted after the first exercise.

So in the end, even though I don't notice, the HDF skill builders does teach me and everyone a lot.  Because we could see the regulars performance vs the 1st timers performance.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 25, 2020, 08:42:33 AM
Took the HDF carbine skill builder which required a sling. They don't, unless it's the combo class (pistol/rifle).

Take aways

1) Half the group were new faces that I've never seen before.  Well that half had safety selector engagement issues.  They wouldn't engage safety between reloads or before moving.  At the end of the class, we all have to name "1 ah-ha moment".  And this half of the group was that.  The other half who are regulars all didn't have safety issues.

2) Lots of guys don't train with the sling.  They buy it, but you can tell they have trouble putting it on, taking off, reloading etc... So practice, practice, practice.

3) My "ah-ha" moment was when going down stairs, do a low ready.  This way you can get on target faster.  I always go high ready, so now I have to remember that if going down stairs.

4) A few months ago at the last carbine skill builder, we had to walk between 2 cones which were about 7 yards apart from each other.  Walk from A to B, and B to A while getting 1 hit on a bowling pin that was about 15 yards away.  Going left to right was easy because I'm a right hander.  But when walking back the other way, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.  I tried back peddling, switching to support side, and even twisting at the waist. Zero hits all exercise.  So this time I got redemption.  I shot from support side and got my hits easily.  Note: since this one was slung, I had to do a sling transition as well.

5) The newer guys didn't realize sight over bore.  But adjusted after the first exercise.

So in the end, even though I don't notice, the HDF skill builders does teach me and everyone a lot.  Because we could see the regulars performance vs the 1st timers performance.
Awesome!  Thank you for sharing your experiences.  It will be very helpful for others to get a feel for what goes on in training, classes, matches, etc and encourages them to come out and participate.  I think the unknowns is what often prevents folks from coming out. 

1) Use of the safety is absolutely critical, particularly involving folks newer to training and especially with stuff like movement is involved.  It's so easy for newer shooters (or those not used to shooting other than from a bench) to get caught up in a course of fire and not work the safety.  I've been to classes where not working the safety will get you pulled off of the range for some "correction", particularly in courses of fire that involve movement, like going standing to kneeling, to prone, etc.  Repeated correction can end your training day. 

2) Very true and I've seen it as well.  I'll add that shooting, particularly all of the required manipulations, can be eye opening when doing so with a sling for the first time.  Need to find what works for you, and that also includes how the slung rifle works with other things. 

It's awesome to see the progression and good to hear that you're seeing and appreciating the benefits of the skill builders. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 25, 2020, 08:49:38 AM
Hit the range this past weekend.  Nothing formal but just good to get out and work on some things.  Was able to run a cold drill and then work on stuff like speeding up my draw and reducing time to first hit, particularly with the RDS handgun. 

I have been wanting to bring out my CZ for a future pistol match, so spent some time working with that gun.  The DA/SA in particular, as well as reloads.  While I certainly enjoy shooting a variety of guns, I'm not leaning towards sticking to certain platforms and really working on those and not switch around as much.  Sort of getting out of the "variety phase", as an instructor mentioned to be before.  I mean I will still enjoy shooting other handguns and rifles, but I think I will be sticking to training and shooting matches with a particular platform.  Getting back into shooting matches lately really energized me and had me looking at trying different guns and even divisions.  I was even considering updating the sights and getting more mags for my RIA 1911 and trying some single stack, but will most likely put that off.  At least for a while.  More money for ammo, which is certainly needed as shooting more often lately has put a pretty good sized dent in the "stash". 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: WTF?Shane on February 26, 2020, 09:16:48 AM
I have phases where I want something new and the CZ Shadow 2 was on my radar for the past year or so. I'm holding myself back because I need to invest more time playing/practicing (forreals, not just plinking) with my current firearms.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 26, 2020, 12:04:40 PM
I have phases where I want something new and the CZ Shadow 2 was on my radar for the past year or so. I'm holding myself back because I need to invest more time playing/practicing (forreals, not just plinking) with my current firearms.
I'm taking a similar route where I'm going to focus more on the "main" platforms moving forward with training, competition, etc. 

I picked up a CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow and PPQ 5" 3-4 years ago for shooting matches.  However, family and work stuff happened shortly after that and pretty much shut down my shooting activities for a while.  I was able to shoot the PPQ in one match, but not the CZ.  I have been shooting matches more consistently since last Dec and really got the bug back, so I was looking at shooting the CZ and PPQ again, which is why I shot the CZ this past weekend.  A while back, a trusted shooting friend/influence mentioned that I had been going through the "expansion" phase and trying this and that.  While I think I will always have the "want something new", I'm going to concentrate on what I've got, at least for now, and dedicate more time and ammo on those. 

I've been putting in a bunch of OT lately and some changes with work had me looking at picking up something new (PCC and other stuff).  I think I'll still get a PCC, but don't think I'll get another handgun.  More $$$ for ammo.   ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on February 27, 2020, 08:14:16 AM
Awesome!  Thank you for sharing your experiences.  It will be very helpful for others to get a feel for what goes on in training, classes, matches, etc and encourages them to come out and participate.  I think the unknowns is what often prevents folks from coming out. 

1) Use of the safety is absolutely critical, particularly involving folks newer to training and especially with stuff like movement is involved.  It's so easy for newer shooters (or those not used to shooting other than from a bench) to get caught up in a course of fire and not work the safety.  I've been to classes where not working the safety will get you pulled off of the range for some "correction", particularly in courses of fire that involve movement, like going standing to kneeling, to prone, etc.  Repeated correction can end your training day. 
I also originally had  safety engaging issues, mostly because it broke my grip some and felt uncomfortable.    :crazy:
Installed bilateral safety and that cured my issues and mow the "sweep" is second nature.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 27, 2020, 12:18:15 PM
I also originally had  safety engaging issues, mostly because it broke my grip some and felt uncomfortable.    :crazy:
Installed bilateral safety and that cured my issues and mow the "sweep" is second nature.  :thumbsup:
"mow the sweep"?   ???

Was there a new technique that I missed?   ;D  :rofl:

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on February 27, 2020, 06:08:29 PM
"mow the sweep"?   ???

Was there a new technique that I missed?   ;D  :rofl:
"NOW the sweep"
Note to self.
Need glasses more when typing than shooting ?  :wacko:
drum roll .............
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on March 02, 2020, 09:13:31 AM
Did quite a bit of shooting this past weekend.  Focus was on "unfkcing things when I shoot pistol". . .  :(

Shooting is a perishable skill is something I'm sure we've all heard, and I for one have experienced many times.  Particularly in recent years when I've had lengthy breaks from shooting.  However, shooting often, at least for me, can have detrimental effects.  Trying to solve a specific issue, or get better at something sometimes results in slight tweaks away from "the foundation".  That and reps with bad fundamentals is simply bad.  I think that's where I had been going and results in a couple of recent matches showed that. 

When I find that my pistol shooting is off, I do a lot of ball and dummy drills.  But prior to that, I was doing some dry manipulations at home and found that my support hand grip crept slightly forward.  I think that was a result of wanting to shoot flatter and exaggerate the "locking out" of my support hand, mostly due to wanting to track the RDS better/faster.  Well, I noticed that that creep resulted in a gap in my grip near the thumb pad of my support hand.  That was something that a keen eye instructor has mentioned a while back.  I had corrected that, but seems to have returned.  So that was one example of a return to solid foundation that I worked on.  Second, was a slight adjustment with the thumb on my shooting hand.  Both of those showed promising results in the ball and dummy drills, as well as showed on paper. 

Looking back at previous match results, I found that in my effort to push times, my hits really suffered.  Particularly with more mikes.  So I wanted to get back to smoothing things out (not necessarily slowing things down). That included paying more attention to shot difficulty, being faster on the transitions as opposed to pushing splits, and lastly, blocking out the pace that the PCC and open shooters go about the stages.  That pace tends to stick in my mind at what is possible and I tend to pushing things a bit too fast. 

The first three stages went pretty well with the keys from recent practice.  Looking back at the video, could work on the transitions and such, but hit factor went way up.  On one stage, my time was "decent", but I had all As and one C.  That's getting back to the hits that I used to get when I first started out and was focused on hits as opposed to pushing the time. 

The last two stages were classifiers, both included shooting around barricades that made for interesting shooting positions and angles.  The other included smaller percentage target areas in terms of distance and coverage by no-shoot or cover.  I told myself going in to be mindful of those factors.  However, I hadn't done well on classifiers in previous weeks, so I think I pushing things a bit.  While I did better than previous weeks, I know I can do better.  That and I think because I had done well on stages 1-3, that that sort of emboldened me and got away from "the plan". 

Overall, I finished much better than previous weeks, so I was very happy about that.  Will need some time with solid reps with solid foundation and get those automatic.  There were times in the recent match where I had to be more mindful of those recent tweaks, as well as when I caught myself reverting back to old/bad habits.  In any case, was a fun day on the range.  There were a couple of new shooters as well as a few that came back out after being the newbie in a recent match.  Good to have more people interested in the matches and shooting in general. 


Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 02, 2020, 01:13:37 PM


When I find that my pistol shooting is off, I do a lot of ball and dummy drills.  But prior to that, I was doing some dry manipulations at home and found that my support hand grip crept slightly forward.  I think that was a result of wanting to shoot flatter and exaggerate the "locking out" of my support hand, mostly due to wanting to track the RDS better/faster.  Well, I noticed that that creep resulted in a gap in my grip near the thumb pad of my support hand.  That was something that a keen eye instructor has mentioned a while back.  I had corrected that, but seems to have returned.  So that was one example of a return to solid foundation that I worked on.  Second, was a slight adjustment with the thumb on my shooting hand.  Both of those showed promising results in the ball and dummy drills, as well as showed on paper. 



When the thumb thing returned, was it right off the bat, or more as you fatigued?  So it would be more an endurance issue.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on March 02, 2020, 01:25:56 PM
When the thumb thing returned, was it right off the bat, or more as you fatigued?  So it would be more an endurance issue.
You mean the gap between my left hand thumb pad and the grip?  I believe that sort of developed over time as I was trying to clamp/close the fingers of my support hand more as well as apply more pressure near the top of the frame (bending a horseshoe open) for better recoil management.  While I already shoot the 17/34 pretty flat, shooting more with the RDS I was working to further reduce the dot movement during recoil.  I found that my left hand sort of crept further clockwise around the grip. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on March 10, 2020, 04:48:12 PM
Did lots of shooting this past weekend. 

Had a day off, so headed to the pistol range to get some good reps in getting back to solid fundamentals that I found that I had gotten away from.  Also recently got a gun back after sending it back to the mfr.  Swapped out the sights on that gun as well, so checked POI.  It was a nice and cool day on the range and was actually pretty crowded for a week day.

Shot a match on Sat.  After having shot like $hit the previous match, I was really looking forward to this match.  My focus was getting back to solid A zone hits and then pushing the pace.  Speeding up the draw and target transitions are also things I've been working on, but decided to focus on getting solid A zone hits first.  Shot pretty well with much less mikes, but still had two.  One I sort of felt, but it was on a far target with an awkward angle around a barricade and the target obstructed by a barrel.  The second what I assume is a total brain fart.  That part of the stage was pretty easy.  Two stations with two fairly easy targets (distance and amount of target exposed) each, but had to shoot each target 3x as opposed to the typical 2x.  When we were scoring, in the second station, I had shot the first target 4x and the second 2x.  Can't explain it as they were all A zone hits and the targets were separated by a decent amount.  :facepalm: 

In previous matches, I had also shot terribly on the classifiers.  Overall, I ended up with decent scores, but the classifiers had been my downfall for total match scores.  Did much better than previous matches on the classifier this past match, but still not quite as well as I could have.  I could have pushed it more, but I was trying to make sure I A) shot it clean, no mikes and B) at a decent pace.  Shot it clean, but time was, well, I'll call it at a "smooth pace" (it was slow. . . ).   :rofl:

To finish up the weekend, had a training session with some like minded individuals/friends.  It included working on fundamentals to start, then progressing to some timed and competition to induce some stress.  Had some free shoot time after as well and had a fun competition with friends. 

Notes:

1) Shooting on a consistent basis really helps, but quality reps in that is really important.  The folks that have been shooting consistent in recent training sessions have shown a LOT of improvement.  It was truly impressive to see.  Both in fundamentals as well as when pushing things in some friendly competition.  For me, I have been shooting pretty consistently for the last 3-4 months, but had gotten away from solid fundamentals, so it was good to get back to that and see improvement there.

2) Having a new gun that doesn't function properly is super frustrating on many levels.  I had picked up a "Gucci Glock" end of 2019, but had to send it back to the mfr after experiencing some malfunctions.  Got it back a couple of weeks ago and since then have about 500 rounds without any issue.  Have a handgun class coming up and that should be another 300 rounds or so, so hopefully close to trusting the new gun.  Then there was a shooting buddy who was having all sorts of problems with his older gun, but one that he doesn't shoot often.  When I shot with him in the past, he would make comments about my plastic 9 and that I should get a "real" pistol made of steel and shoots 45.  Well, his "real" steel pistol that shot 9 was having all sorts of problems.  While I felt sorry for him for having to endure that, of course there were some comments sent his way.  None of the other shooters who had Glock, HK, etc were having problems. . .  ;D

3) While I will always enjoy shooting a variety of firearms, going to stick to shooting a "base" platform for now.  Glock 34 for pistol matches and Glock 17 or 19 with RDS for training as primary, with 17/19 with irons mixed in.  The CZ will have to stay in the safe for a while more. 

4) Magpul Glock mag pros and cons.  My 19s came with Magpul mags and overall I'm impressed. They have functioned flawlessly, they are about half the price of OEM Glock mags, and they seem to eject more positively than OEM Glock mags.  However, they only have an indicator for the full 10 rounds, so can't really tell how many you have in the mag say between 3-10.  Not really a big deal, but having more ports to see how many rounds are loaded in the OEM mags really help checking how many are loaded up in say a class or training session.  Yeah, yeah, I can tell about how many rounds by the weight, but I like to know how many rounds are in there and have gotten used to the ports in the OEM mags.  That said, moving forward, I think I will be buying more Magpul Glock mags.



Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Coconut-kid on March 10, 2020, 07:07:39 PM
Did lots of shooting this past weekend. 

Had a day off, so headed to the pistol range to get some good reps in getting back to solid fundamentals that I found that I had gotten away from.  Also recently got a gun back after sending it back to the mfr.  Swapped out the sights on that gun as well, so checked POI.  It was a nice and cool day on the range and was actually pretty crowded for a week day.

Shot a match on Sat.  After having shot like $hit the previous match, I was really looking forward to this match.  My focus was getting back to solid A zone hits and then pushing the pace.  Speeding up the draw and target transitions are also things I've been working on, but decided to focus on getting solid A zone hits first.  Shot pretty well with much less mikes, but still had two.  One I sort of felt, but it was on a far target with an awkward angle around a barricade and the target obstructed by a barrel.  The second what I assume is a total brain fart.  That part of the stage was pretty easy.  Two stations with two fairly easy targets (distance and amount of target exposed) each, but had to shoot each target 3x as opposed to the typical 2x.  When we were scoring, in the second station, I had shot the first target 4x and the second 2x.  Can't explain it as they were all A zone hits and the targets were separated by a decent amount.  :facepalm: 

In previous matches, I had also shot terribly on the classifiers.  Overall, I ended up with decent scores, but the classifiers had been my downfall for total match scores.  Did much better than previous matches on the classifier this past match, but still not quite as well as I could have.  I could have pushed it more, but I was trying to make sure I A) shot it clean, no mikes and B) at a decent pace.  Shot it clean, but time was, well, I'll call it at a "smooth pace" (it was slow. . . ).   :rofl:

To finish up the weekend, had a training session with some like minded individuals/friends.  It included working on fundamentals to start, then progressing to some timed and competition to induce some stress.  Had some free shoot time after as well and had a fun competition with friends. 

Notes:

1) Shooting on a consistent basis really helps, but quality reps in that is really important.  The folks that have been shooting consistent in recent training sessions have shown a LOT of improvement.  It was truly impressive to see.  Both in fundamentals as well as when pushing things in some friendly competition.  For me, I have been shooting pretty consistently for the last 3-4 months, but had gotten away from solid fundamentals, so it was good to get back to that and see improvement there.

2) Having a new gun that doesn't function properly is super frustrating on many levels.  I had picked up a "Gucci Glock" end of 2019, but had to send it back to the mfr after experiencing some malfunctions.  Got it back a couple of weeks ago and since then have about 500 rounds without any issue.  Have a handgun class coming up and that should be another 300 rounds or so, so hopefully close to trusting the new gun.  Then there was a shooting buddy who was having all sorts of problems with his older gun, but one that he doesn't shoot often.  When I shot with him in the past, he would make comments about my plastic 9 and that I should get a "real" pistol made of steel and shoots 45.  Well, his "real" steel pistol that shot 9 was having all sorts of problems.  While I felt sorry for him for having to endure that, of course there were some comments sent his way.  None of the other shooters who had Glock, HK, etc were having problems. . .  ;D

3) While I will always enjoy shooting a variety of firearms, going to stick to shooting a "base" platform for now.  Glock 34 for pistol matches and Glock 17 or 19 with RDS for training as primary, with 17/19 with irons mixed in.  The CZ will have to stay in the safe for a while more. 

4) Magpul Glock mag pros and cons.  My 19s came with Magpul mags and overall I'm impressed. They have functioned flawlessly, they are about half the price of OEM Glock mags, and they seem to eject more positively than OEM Glock mags.  However, they only have an indicator for the full 10 rounds, so can't really tell how many you have in the mag say between 3-10.  Not really a big deal, but having more ports to see how many rounds are loaded in the OEM mags really help checking how many are loaded up in say a class or training session.  Yeah, yeah, I can tell about how many rounds by the weight, but I like to know how many rounds are in there and have gotten used to the ports in the OEM mags.  That said, moving forward, I think I will be buying more Magpul Glock mags.


Good seeing/shooting with you as always.   Its been a minute since I've shot uspsa.  But always a good time with good people.  Damn clasifier.   :wacko:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on March 11, 2020, 08:32:35 AM

Good seeing/shooting with you as always.   Its been a minute since I've shot uspsa.  But always a good time with good people.  Damn clasifier.   :wacko:
Yup.  Always good to see friendly faces and shoot with like-minded people.   :thumbsup:

I didn't shoot matches for about 3 years as well, but when got back into shooting matches again it was good to see many familiar faces along with many new faces.  Hope to see and your buddies more often.

Yeah, damn classifiers.   :wacko:  :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: WTF?Shane on March 11, 2020, 02:09:54 PM
Did lots of shooting this past weekend. 

Did you end up shooting the MPX? Thoughts?
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on March 11, 2020, 02:26:29 PM
Did you end up shooting the MPX? Thoughts?
Naw, I didn't.  Though Coconut-Kid did offer to let me tryout his. 

I'm pretty sure I'll get a PCC.  Right now it's the Sig MPX and Noveske, but I'm waiting for some work stuff to clear to decide. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: WTF?Shane on March 16, 2020, 08:51:04 AM
Good training this weekend, but might have to cut back on shooting now due to ammo supply. Time for more dry firing.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on March 16, 2020, 10:50:19 AM
Good training this weekend, but might have to cut back on shooting now due to ammo supply. Time for more dry firing.
Awesome!  It was great seeing ya on the range!   :thumbsup:  I'll get around to posting some thoughts, probably later tonight. 

Regarding ammo, unfortunate timing.  Supply down and pricing going up in a time when I have been shooting more often than I had been and was planning on ramping it up even more.  Will likely be doing more dry fire as well. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on March 16, 2020, 03:30:51 PM
Attended a handgun class this weekend with a group that I've trained with a number of times now.  Another great class and at perfect timing as I had been struggling with pistol shooting as of late and over the past week or so felt I had gotten back to a solid path with focusing on fundamentals again as well as some other adjustments.  Noticed that I had developed some bad habits and while I think I corrected most, good to have the keen eyes of experienced instructors providing feedback. 

It was a cool and overcast day that made for good training.  It rained quite a bit in the morning (not surprising for this group and location), but the rain let up by the time we got to shooting with just some light showers here and there.  This was a foundational level handgun class with a pretty wide range of experience levels.  From some folks who had never shot a gun before to some who have quite a bit of shooting experience.  As I have mentioned before, I always enjoy working on the fundamentals, especially with this group.  Was particularly looking forward to this one to get me back on track toward solid pistol shooting. 

Highlight/Notes:

1)   Overall, it was good to see that the time I have been spending on the range as well as dry fire seems to be paying off.  I was happy with how I shot early on in the live fire session.  Later, was able to push things and there were times where I found that I either pushed things a bit too far or just got sloppy at times with the fundamentals and noticed that on paper.  Good to find that “a bit too far” point of pushing it and find where I need to focus training.
 
2)   I shot the class with my “Gucci” Glock 19 that I recently got back after sending it back to the manufacturer for some issues.  Shot about 320 rounds in this class and not one malfunction.  So that about 600 rounds total since I got the gun back and no malfunctions, so was quite happy about that.  Want to put at least another 400 rounds or so, hopefully without issue. 

3)   This was my second handgun class shooting with RDS and am feeling a lot more comfortable with all aspects of shooting with RDS.  Particularly with picking up the dot quicker on the draw (really helped with dry practice) and reducing the splits. 

4)   Having newer shooters in the class often helps with my own shooting.  As mentioned previously, always good to work on the fundamentals, but listening in on instruction for newer shooters is an opportunity to pick up things in a different light that I usually pick up things that help me.

5)   Want to work on target transitions more.  Noticed some errant shots in specific instances when pushing things in those drills.  Trannies is definitely an area that I want to work on more in general from shooting matches, but also from the class.  A few of the drills were such that it diverted more attention to the shot strings and noticed my hits suffered.  Wasn’t wildly off, but I did notice “coloring outside the lines”. 
No equipment issues or desires to get something after the class.  Pretty happy with the current setup and put the “gun funds” toward more ammo. 

Another great day of shooting with like-minded individuals.  Lots of familiar faces and always good to see folks new to shooting coming out for firearms training. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on March 16, 2020, 05:28:43 PM
Attended a handgun class this weekend with a group that I've trained with a number of times now.  Another great class and at perfect timing as I had been struggling with pistol shooting as of late and over the past week or so felt I had gotten back to a solid path with focusing on fundamentals again as well as some other adjustments.  Noticed that I had developed some bad habits and while I think I corrected most, good to have the keen eyes of experienced instructors providing feedback. 

It was a cool and overcast day that made for good training.  It rained quite a bit in the morning (not surprising for this group and location), but the rain let up by the time we got to shooting with just some light showers here and there.  This was a foundational level handgun class with a pretty wide range of experience levels.  From some folks who had never shot a gun before to some who have quite a bit of shooting experience.  As I have mentioned before, I always enjoy working on the fundamentals, especially with this group.  Was particularly looking forward to this one to get me back on track toward solid pistol shooting. 

Highlight/Notes:

1)   Overall, it was good to see that the time I have been spending on the range as well as dry fire seems to be paying off.  I was happy with how I shot early on in the live fire session.  Later, was able to push things and there were times where I found that I either pushed things a bit too far or just got sloppy at times with the fundamentals and noticed that on paper.  Good to find that “a bit too far” point of pushing it and find where I need to focus training.
 
2)   I shot the class with my “Gucci” Glock 19 that I recently got back after sending it back to the manufacturer for some issues.  Shot about 320 rounds in this class and not one malfunction.  So that about 600 rounds total since I got the gun back and no malfunctions, so was quite happy about that.  Want to put at least another 400 rounds or so, hopefully without issue. 

3)   This was my second handgun class shooting with RDS and am feeling a lot more comfortable with all aspects of shooting with RDS.  Particularly with picking up the dot quicker on the draw (really helped with dry practice) and reducing the splits. 

4)   Having newer shooters in the class often helps with my own shooting.  As mentioned previously, always good to work on the fundamentals, but listening in on instruction for newer shooters is an opportunity to pick up things in a different light that I usually pick up things that help me.

5)   Want to work on target transitions more.  Noticed some errant shots in specific instances when pushing things in those drills.  Trannies is definitely an area that I want to work on more in general from shooting matches, but also from the class.  A few of the drills were such that it diverted more attention to the shot strings and noticed my hits suffered.  Wasn’t wildly off, but I did notice “coloring outside the lines”. 
No equipment issues or desires to get something after the class.  Pretty happy with the current setup and put the “gun funds” toward more ammo. 

Another great day of shooting with like-minded individuals.  Lots of familiar faces and always good to see folks new to shooting coming out for firearms training.

heads
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 15, 2020, 04:37:18 PM
Attended a handgun class this past weekend and it felt GREAT to be out shooting again.  Great class, great weather, and even better people in the class.  The last time I shot before this class was actually the class that I posted above on 16 March.  I had gone from shooting pretty regularly, shooting at least once a week on the bullseye range, silhouette, match, smaller group training, etc to nothing for almost three months.  The rust really showed.  It took a little bit to shake off the rust, which was to be expected.

This class was next step in the foundational handgun from the class back in March.  I had taken this level class with this group previously, but again, always good to work on the fundamental.  Especially after a long break from shooting.  When I started working from home back in March, I was doing a lot of dry fire with both handgun and rifle.  I would say that lasted a few weeks and was probably over a month since I was doing dry fire regularly and it showed.  Particularly in the speed on the draw and picking up the dot.  I felt I had it down pretty well in the last class, so it was definitely a step back.  Again, that was expected though.

Highlights/Notes:

1) Need to do more dry fire, especially during a long layoff in live fire.  There were things that I felt I could have kept sharper on during the layoff.  This class came up a little bit unexpectedly with not much notice between signups and the course.  I should have spent more time dry firing in that time, but I was also sort of curious on how I would do after the layoff.

2) Solid fundamentals on newer shooters really can pay dividends, along with keen eyes of solid instructors of course.  A bunch of the new shooters from the last class joined us again this past weekend and after a little but of jitters to start with, they were doing awesome.  It was truly awesome to see how they progressed and how well they were shooting.  Unfortunately, a couple of them were caught in the process of acquiring their first handguns in the COVID shut down. 

3) We started the day off with a standards drill shot cold (first rounds of the day).  I was able to shoot it cleanly, but my times were no where near where I know I could.  I did take a bit more time to ensure hits, which was kind of the point, but I also could have pushed things further.  The pushing it came in later drills, but I definitely need to lay on the gas a bit more and "mess up" my target and find the training zones. 

4) A good portion of the class was target transitions and incorporating efficient movement.  Both things I was working on prior to the layoff, particularly for USPSA matches.  Lots of takeaways there on shooting "smarter" and where time can be "made up". 

5) I ended up being relay partners with a very good shooter that I met in the last class.  Friendly competition is always good and to push yourself against experienced shooters.  The opportunity to see how other shooters do, particularly the things that they aren't aware that they are doing.  I was caught a few times doing something "not correctly" where I thought I was doing it as instructed.  Besides video, next best thing to that awareness. 

Always fun to be on the range with this group and always leaves me looking forward to more.  I was definitely out of shape shooting wise and was the most smoked after a single day of shooting that I've been in a while.  It was great weather and felt great to be out shooting again, but boy did I pay for it the next day. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on June 15, 2020, 08:01:57 PM
Attended a handgun class this past weekend and it felt GREAT to be out shooting again.  Great class, great weather, and even better people in the class.  The last time I shot before this class was actually the class that I posted above on 16 March.  I had gone from shooting pretty regularly, shooting at least once a week on the bullseye range, silhouette, match, smaller group training, etc to nothing for almost three months.  The rust really showed.  It took a little bit to shake off the rust, which was to be expected.

This class was next step in the foundational handgun from the class back in March.  I had taken this level class with this group previously, but again, always good to work on the fundamental.  Especially after a long break from shooting.  When I started working from home back in March, I was doing a lot of dry fire with both handgun and rifle.  I would say that lasted a few weeks and was probably over a month since I was doing dry fire regularly and it showed.  Particularly in the speed on the draw and picking up the dot.  I felt I had it down pretty well in the last class, so it was definitely a step back.  Again, that was expected though.

Highlights/Notes:

1) Need to do more dry fire, especially during a long layoff in live fire.  There were things that I felt I could have kept sharper on during the layoff.  This class came up a little bit unexpectedly with not much notice between signups and the course.  I should have spent more time dry firing in that time, but I was also sort of curious on how I would do after the layoff.

2) Solid fundamentals on newer shooters really can pay dividends, along with keen eyes of solid instructors of course.  A bunch of the new shooters from the last class joined us again this past weekend and after a little but of jitters to start with, they were doing awesome.  It was truly awesome to see how they progressed and how well they were shooting.  Unfortunately, a couple of them were caught in the process of acquiring their first handguns in the COVID shut down. 

3) We started the day off with a standards drill shot cold (first rounds of the day).  I was able to shoot it cleanly, but my times were no where near where I know I could.  I did take a bit more time to ensure hits, which was kind of the point, but I also could have pushed things further.  The pushing it came in later drills, but I definitely need to lay on the gas a bit more and "mess up" my target and find the training zones. 

4) A good portion of the class was target transitions and incorporating efficient movement.  Both things I was working on prior to the layoff, particularly for USPSA matches.  Lots of takeaways there on shooting "smarter" and where time can be "made up". 

5) I ended up being relay partners with a very good shooter that I met in the last class.  Friendly competition is always good and to push yourself against experienced shooters.  The opportunity to see how other shooters do, particularly the things that they aren't aware that they are doing.  I was caught a few times doing something "not correctly" where I thought I was doing it as instructed.  Besides video, next best thing to that awareness. 

Always fun to be on the range with this group and always leaves me looking forward to more.  I was definitely out of shape shooting wise and was the most smoked after a single day of shooting that I've been in a while.  It was great weather and felt great to be out shooting again, but boy did I pay for it the next day.

heads
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 29, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
Took a Handgun skill builder this weekend after not shooting since February.

The skill builder focused a lot on 1 handed shooting, support and strong side.  Then a little bit of no sights shooting (RDS or irons).

For the 1 handed, we had to hit a target a little smaller than an index card at 5 yards and a 8 inch circle at 5 yards.  No time limit.  Many struggled.

For the no sights, we had to use tape to cover any sights. The thought is that things can fail.  Sights fall off, RDS goes down, etc...So shooting a 8x11 paper at 10 yards I was hitting low for most of my shots.  I would say intestine hits.  It's interesting that some shooters shot better with no sights than they did with sights.  Had a few Glock guys who were able to cant their pistol and use the corner of the frame as sights.

What looked like a dragon fly landed on my slide toward the front sight during 1 of the 1 handed drills.  I waited a few seconds to see if it would fly off, but it didn't.  So I shot and it flew off. That was pretty cool.

Overall a fun class.  Mrs. CMO enjoyed it.  Forgot how hot it gets wearing body armor.  Lower back and traps all buss up.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on June 29, 2020, 10:29:39 AM
Took a Handgun skill builder this weekend after not shooting since February.

The skill builder focused a lot on 1 handed shooting, support and strong side.  Then a little bit of no sights shooting (RDS or irons).

For the 1 handed, we had to hit a target a little smaller than an index card at 5 yards and a 8 inch circle at 5 yards.  No time limit.  Many struggled.

For the no sights, we had to use tape to cover any sights. The thought is that things can fail.  Sights fall off, RDS goes down, etc...So shooting a 8x11 paper at 10 yards I was hitting low for most of my shots.  I would say intestine hits.  It's interesting that some shooters shot better with no sights than they did with sights.  Had a few Glock guys who were able to cant their pistol and use the corner of the frame as sights.

What looked like a dragon fly landed on my slide toward the front sight during 1 of the 1 handed drills.  I waited a few seconds to see if it would fly off, but it didn't.  So I shot and it flew off. That was pretty cool.

Overall a fun class.  Mrs. CMO enjoyed it.  Forgot how hot it gets wearing body armor.  Lower back and traps all buss up.

"they" want you to think that the tracking drone is a dragon fly...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 29, 2020, 10:53:40 AM
Took a Handgun skill builder this weekend after not shooting since February.

The skill builder focused a lot on 1 handed shooting, support and strong side.  Then a little bit of no sights shooting (RDS or irons).

For the 1 handed, we had to hit a target a little smaller than an index card at 5 yards and a 8 inch circle at 5 yards.  No time limit.  Many struggled.

For the no sights, we had to use tape to cover any sights. The thought is that things can fail.  Sights fall off, RDS goes down, etc...So shooting a 8x11 paper at 10 yards I was hitting low for most of my shots.  I would say intestine hits.  It's interesting that some shooters shot better with no sights than they did with sights.  Had a few Glock guys who were able to cant their pistol and use the corner of the frame as sights.

What looked like a dragon fly landed on my slide toward the front sight during 1 of the 1 handed drills.  I waited a few seconds to see if it would fly off, but it didn't.  So I shot and it flew off. That was pretty cool.

Overall a fun class.  Mrs. CMO enjoyed it.  Forgot how hot it gets wearing body armor.  Lower back and traps all buss up.
Awesome!  Thank you for sharing! 

Overall, how did you feel you did after the layoff of about 4 months?  Having gotten back into shooting live rounds the past couple of weeks have reinforced the perishable nature of shooting skills.  I had tried to do dry fire/manipulations at the start of the shutdown, but I hadn't for weeks prior to the handgun class a couple of weeks ago.  While not good, I think the layoff was interesting to me as it allowed me to see just how much a total layoff affected me, as well as good in a way as it allows some time for a reboot or sorts and get away from some bad habits and work on solid fundamentals.

One handed shooting is something that I notice that I need work in, but don't really spend as much time on. 

I was very much wiped out after my first day on the range after not shooting since March.  Being out in the sun after being mostly indoors during the shutdown really showed.  Normally, just one day on the range like the handgun class would've been no big deal when I was shooting often.  I was totally wiped out after the handgun class.  Reminds me that there's such a thing as being in shape in that aspect. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 29, 2020, 11:18:49 AM
Attended in a rifle/carbine class this past weekend and another GREAT time shooting.  Another great class, great weather, and a couple of shooting friends that I've shot with quite a bit in other groups were able to join in, so that was awesome!  Always good when good people invest the time into getting quality training. 

This was my first time back shooting a carbine since mid-March.  A little rusty, but not nearly as rusty as I was with the handgun, which is to be expected.  Long guns are way more forgiving on the perishable nature of shooting skills than handguns.  This was a foundation level carbine class with this group and included a number of people new to shooting.  Many had shot in the previous handgun classes or had their friends or spouse out for the first time, so it was a good mix of people.  Firearms safety is essential and always highly stressed with this group and it showed over the course of the day. 

Highlights/Notes:

1) Shot my "trusted" AR with EoTech in this class.  I've been wanting to shoot other uppers with different optics, but after the layoff, I decided to go with the upper with the EoTech.  In a previous rifle course, I shot my LPVO.  I thought about shooting that one as well, but figured best to stick to the basics for this one.  I've gotten very used to the EoTech reticle over the years, but I also want to spend more time with the simple red dot optic like Aimpoints.  I have a couple of ARs with the "simple" Aimpoints, so I should spend more time shooting those as well in a class/training environment.

2) No gear changes, tweaks, or failures this class.  There were a couple of shooters that had some kinks with their gear and it seemed like a couple were new rifles.  Totally understandable that they didn't have time to have shot the new rifles during the shutdown, but a reminder even for me that I need time to try/test things out when trying new stuff. 

3) Was actually "good" to see folks finding out that their setup had issues during the class and trying different arrangements to find what works, or at least what worked better.  I'm a big advocate of needing to shoot in class/training to iron stuff like that out.  I've learned lessons the hard way showing up to a class with a new setup and finding I didn't like it.  Part of the learning.  Always learning.  As mentioned previously, also good to see what other shooters have and able to pick their brains on it.  Also for newer shooters to see what's out there and get gear recommendations, especially what gear types or companies to avoid (because they sell crap). 

4) The live fire started out with stuff that worked on fundamentals with a logical progression.  The drills eventually transitioned to include opportunity to really test stuff like recoil management.  One of the things that the instructors in this group typically comment on for me is to push to find the point where things start to "mess up" my target.  There were times that I really thought I was pushing it and the target was still decent.  Need to focus more on pushing things and progress. 

5) I ended up being in the same relay as my two friends that were in this class for the first time.  That was an awesome experience on many levels, particularly for the friendly competition aspect.  It also allowed time in between relays to ask some things while the instructors were on the line with the other relay. 

6) Total round count wasn't that high, but if really felt like there was "quality" in the rounds shot.  The day ended with the feeling that I had shot more than I did.  I mean yeah, I would have loved to have continued to have kept shooting given the layoff, but probably a good thing that we stopped where we did because I was pretty sore the next day. 

Again, always fun day on the range with this group.  Little better "in-shape" and hopefully I'll be able to shoot more consistently ahead of some other classes planned for later this summer.  I've definitely got the shooting bug back.  Thankfully I'm mostly ok on the ammo stores right now, but I'll probably need to start keeping an eye on ammo deals. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 29, 2020, 12:33:05 PM
"they" want you to think that the tracking drone is a dragon fly...

Damn, fakka was looking right at me too.  "they" now have my full frontal head shot pic.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 29, 2020, 12:48:54 PM
Awesome!  Thank you for sharing! 

Overall, how did you feel you did after the layoff of about 4 months?

I didn't really see a difference.  I don't think my shooting is at that expert state yet where not shooting for a while will totally show.  I would say I'm slightly better than average.  When doing the shooting at the smaller than index card.  10 rds strong side and 10 rds support un-timed from 5 yards.  Strong side I got 9/10 and support side I got 7/10.  Most of the group was less than half that and we all took about the same time to complete all rounds shot.

For the 8 inch circle at 10 yards strong side 10rds, they had score rings.  Golf ball size was 10pts, then 9 pts and 8 pt rings.  I scored a 63/80.  Most scored 16-30s.  But those same guys whooped me on the no sights shooting the 8x11 paper at 10 yards.  I think I got like 2 hits on paper, the rest were low.  Everyone else got like 8 hits on paper.

Over CV, I did some dry firing.  But I noticed my dry fire is 10000% better than my shooting.  There is a mental block when using live ammo.  Either that or I'm using shitty range ammo.  I'm going with the mental block.  Last week I ordered the G-sight barrel laser.  I wish I knew about this during the lock down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqTCgamgp0&t=239s

Mrs. CMO wanted it also.  The gen 2 is $40 on Amazon, but I got the gen 3 which was $60 direct from G-sight.  Amazon didn't have the gen 3 laser.  I've seen other training lasers that run way more than that.  Plus I can use my VP9.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 29, 2020, 01:20:19 PM


3) Was actually "good" to see folks finding out that their setup had issues during the class and trying different arrangements to find what works, or at least what worked better.  I'm a big advocate of needing to shoot in class/training to iron stuff like that out.  I've learned lessons the hard way showing up to a class with a new setup and finding I didn't like it.  Part of the learning.  Always learning.  As mentioned previously, also good to see what other shooters have and able to pick their brains on it.  Also for newer shooters to see what's out there and get gear recommendations, especially what gear types or companies to avoid (because they sell crap). 



The most valuable thing these skill builders/classes taught me is to work through the problem.  The drill doesn't end just because X thing went wrong.  Just like in real life.  Bad guy is coming at you and you fumble the reload (magazine backwards).  Well fix it and resume fire.  Like the video of the vegas Metro shooting from his car window.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 29, 2020, 06:19:17 PM
The most valuable thing these skill builders/classes taught me is to work through the problem.  The drill doesn't end just because X thing went wrong.  Just like in real life.  Bad guy is coming at you and you fumble the reload (magazine backwards).  Well fix it and resume fire.  Like the video of the vegas Metro shooting from his car window.
Agree that is important for a defensive mindset for training (assuming that is the context for that individual).  Work the problem, work the solution, fix the problem, etc are things I've heard from various instructors. 

I still have vivid memories of getting caught up in my rifle sling in a course of fire on one of my first rifle courses on the mainland.  There was a section where you were to transition to sidearm if presented a specific situation and it did come up for me.  Somehow the rifle sling got twisted up as I was shooting with my pistol and it was a mess when I tried to transition back to the rifle.  Was practically strangling myself.  I could hear the instructor yelling at me to fix the problem, along with some pretty funny choice phrases in an Aussie accent.   :rofl: 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: raudi on July 02, 2020, 08:39:20 AM
Attended in a rifle/carbine class this past weekend and another GREAT time shooting.  Another great class, great weather, and a couple of shooting friends that I've shot with quite a bit in other groups were able to join in, so that was awesome!  Always good when good people invest the time into getting quality training. 

This was my first time back shooting a carbine since mid-March.  A little rusty, but not nearly as rusty as I was with the handgun, which is to be expected.  Long guns are way more forgiving on the perishable nature of shooting skills than handguns.  This was a foundation level carbine class with this group and included a number of people new to shooting.  Many had shot in the previous handgun classes or had their friends or spouse out for the first time, so it was a good mix of people.  Firearms safety is essential and always highly stressed with this group and it showed over the course of the day. 

Highlights/Notes:

1) Shot my "trusted" AR with EoTech in this class.  I've been wanting to shoot other uppers with different optics, but after the layoff, I decided to go with the upper with the EoTech.  In a previous rifle course, I shot my LPVO.  I thought about shooting that one as well, but figured best to stick to the basics for this one.  I've gotten very used to the EoTech reticle over the years, but I also want to spend more time with the simple red dot optic like Aimpoints.  I have a couple of ARs with the "simple" Aimpoints, so I should spend more time shooting those as well in a class/training environment.

2) No gear changes, tweaks, or failures this class.  There were a couple of shooters that had some kinks with their gear and it seemed like a couple were new rifles.  Totally understandable that they didn't have time to have shot the new rifles during the shutdown, but a reminder even for me that I need time to try/test things out when trying new stuff. 

3) Was actually "good" to see folks finding out that their setup had issues during the class and trying different arrangements to find what works, or at least what worked better.  I'm a big advocate of needing to shoot in class/training to iron stuff like that out.  I've learned lessons the hard way showing up to a class with a new setup and finding I didn't like it.  Part of the learning.  Always learning.  As mentioned previously, also good to see what other shooters have and able to pick their brains on it.  Also for newer shooters to see what's out there and get gear recommendations, especially what gear types or companies to avoid (because they sell crap). 

4) The live fire started out with stuff that worked on fundamentals with a logical progression.  The drills eventually transitioned to include opportunity to really test stuff like recoil management.  One of the things that the instructors in this group typically comment on for me is to push to find the point where things start to "mess up" my target.  There were times that I really thought I was pushing it and the target was still decent.  Need to focus more on pushing things and progress. 

5) I ended up being in the same relay as my two friends that were in this class for the first time.  That was an awesome experience on many levels, particularly for the friendly competition aspect.  It also allowed time in between relays to ask some things while the instructors were on the line with the other relay. 

6) Total round count wasn't that high, but if really felt like there was "quality" in the rounds shot.  The day ended with the feeling that I had shot more than I did.  I mean yeah, I would have loved to have continued to have kept shooting given the layoff, but probably a good thing that we stopped where we did because I was pretty sore the next day. 

Again, always fun day on the range with this group.  Little better "in-shape" and hopefully I'll be able to shoot more consistently ahead of some other classes planned for later this summer.  I've definitely got the shooting bug back.  Thankfully I'm mostly ok on the ammo stores right now, but I'll probably need to start keeping an eye on ammo deals.


who offers this class?
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 27, 2020, 09:43:43 AM
Took a HDF carbine skill builder this weekend.

1) 1st drill was starting cold and with your rifle in your bag/case.  Run 15 yards, uncase and load and shoot circle the size of a pan pizza at 7 yards in 20 seconds.  This was an interesting drill because some people transport their rifles in a small bag, so they have to separate the upper from the lower. Which means they had to assemble it before shooting.  They ran out of time. 

For us, I had 2 rifles in 1 hardcase (Mrs. CMO and I), and had the red dot cover on.  Mrs. CMO doesn't pack and unpack so she didn't know on the case there are 2 more clips on the side.  She was able to load and make ready, but ran out of time.

For me, I was able to get 9 shots off, but was point and shooting because I left my optic cover on because I didn't know how much time I had.  Got 2 of the 9 hits in the circle, the other shots were on the 8x11 paper.  Next time I would remove the optic cover.  Also both butt stocks were folded in the the max so they fit into the case.  Not a big deal, but noticeable.

2) Did more shooting at 7 yards so POA/POI is important to know.  From both high and low ready.  I noticed im more accurate with high ready.

3) For the 1st time I shot with my rifle buttstock tucked under my armpit.  Target was only 2 yards away.  Drill was 4 shots in the pan pizza circle, then shoulder and 1 shot in a box smaller than an index card.  Grouping for armpit shots were all touching.  But spread out like the size of a jalapino.  This was more fun than it would seem.  Important to squeeze the arm down tight on the butt stock so you maintain recoil control.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 27, 2020, 12:53:24 PM
Took a HDF carbine skill builder this weekend.

1) 1st drill was starting cold and with your rifle in your bag/case.  Run 15 yards, uncase and load and shoot circle the size of a pan pizza at 7 yards in 20 seconds.  This was an interesting drill because some people transport their rifles in a small bag, so they have to separate the upper from the lower. Which means they had to assemble it before shooting.  They ran out of time. 

For us, I had 2 rifles in 1 hardcase (Mrs. CMO and I), and had the red dot cover on.  Mrs. CMO doesn't pack and unpack so she didn't know on the case there are 2 more clips on the side.  She was able to load and make ready, but ran out of time.

For me, I was able to get 9 shots off, but was point and shooting because I left my optic cover on because I didn't know how much time I had.  Got 2 of the 9 hits in the circle, the other shots were on the 8x11 paper.  Next time I would remove the optic cover.  Also both butt stocks were folded in the the max so they fit into the case.  Not a big deal, but noticeable.

2) Did more shooting at 7 yards so POA/POI is important to know.  From both high and low ready.  I noticed im more accurate with high ready.

3) For the 1st time I shot with my rifle buttstock tucked under my armpit.  Target was only 2 yards away.  Drill was 4 shots in the pan pizza circle, then shoulder and 1 shot in a box smaller than an index card.  Grouping for armpit shots were all touching.  But spread out like the size of a jalapino.  This was more fun than it would seem.  Important to squeeze the arm down tight on the butt stock so you maintain recoil control.
Thank you for sharing! 

1) That's an interesting "thing to make you go hmm" scenario.  One great thing about something like that drill is that I'm sure it introduced a good amount of stress.  IMO experiencing that is important in context of defensive situations.  Just a side note, it's pretty eye opening what kind of shoot placement can be achieved by "other than sights".  Not advocating for that, but interesting "what if".  Since we were little, we learn to point at something of interest.  I used to shoot with a guy that at 65+, he had a hard time focusing on the front sight of his AR.  He was actually able to get pretty decent hits from essentially point shooting lead by his support hand.  Again, I'm not advocating for shooting in that manner, but it was interesting to see. 

2) Yup, offsets due to height over bore for carbines is key for defensive shooting.  I do drills or exercises on that aspect of carbine shooting quite often.  As for being more accurate from low ready or high ready, did you mean you feel like you're able to acquire the sights faster?  The ready position shouldn't affect your accuracy, as long as you're solid getting into shooting frame/position. 

3) Think you've been watching Desperado too many times.   :P

Sounds like a fun day on the range.  Great that you could share it with Mrs. CMO.  Is she all healed up now? 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 27, 2020, 12:58:44 PM
Thank you for sharing! 

1) That's an interesting "thing to make you go hmm" scenario.  One great thing about something like that drill is that I'm sure it introduced a good amount of stress.  IMO experiencing that is important in context of defensive situations.  Just a side note, it's pretty eye opening what kind of shoot placement can be achieved by "other than sights".  Not advocating for that, but interesting "what if".  Since we were little, we learn to point at something of interest.  I used to shoot with a guy that at 65+, he had a hard time focusing on the front sight of his AR.  He was actually able to get pretty decent hits from essentially point shooting lead by his support hand.  Again, I'm not advocating for shooting in that manner, but it was interesting to see. 

2) Yup, offsets due to height over bore for carbines is key for defensive shooting.  I do drills or exercises on that aspect of carbine shooting quite often.  As for being more accurate from low ready or high ready, did you mean you feel like you're able to acquire the sights faster?  The ready position shouldn't affect your accuracy, as long as you're solid getting into shooting frame/position. 

3) Think you've been watching Desperado too many times.   :P

Sounds like a fun day on the range.  Great that you could share it with Mrs. CMO.  Is she all healed up now?

Her foot is a little better.  But still has the plantar faciutis. Every skill builder, she says she wont spring.  But then when the last exercise happens, her competitiveness kicks in and she's sprinting. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 27, 2020, 05:28:12 PM
Over the past two weeks, attended a rifle/carbine 2 class and a rifle & pistol skill builder.  All great training.  Both classes got rained on here and there, which has pretty much become a tradition with this group and location.  My work has been crazy the past few weeks, so it was good to squeeze training days in there and serve as my days of meditation and get away from work.  Much needed recoil therapy. 

Highlights/Notes:

1) Both days included starting off shooting standards.  Always good to see how your skills are progressing, or sometimes digressing with the perishable nature of these skills.  After layoffs from shooting, I tend to approach the standards courses of fire "safely", but have been encouraged to push things more, which I was able to do.  In the rifle course a few weeks back, I pushed things a bit and ended up missing my goal for the standards by just a little due to penalty for a miss.  Was still pretty happy overall after not having shot carbine for a while.  This past weekend was a chance at redemption and I was able to make my goal for the standard by shooting it clean and almost 0.5 sec under.  It was close though as I had one hit that was on the line. 

2) Shooting pistol and rifle together in similar courses of fire shows me how much more effort I need to concentrate on my pistol shooting.  I enjoy shooting both pistol and carbine, but I enjoy shooting carbine a LOT more.  That said, I always understood that things are generally easier with a carbine in many regards, but I was admittedly humbled in that I wasn't nearly the pistol shooter that I thought I was.  Good to be humbled at times and stay hungry for improvement.  Also got some sage advice after from a trusted friend. 

3) No gear changes, tweaks, or failures during this class.  Though I did shoot the latter part of the day with a PC.  I rarely get to shoot with the PC, so it's always a good experience.  There were a few others that shot with their PC as well and some had some gear issues to iron out, buy mostly minor things like placement of certain elements.  I was able to confirm that there wasn't a conflict with my usual setup with the addition of the PC. 

4) Always good to be shooting under the keen eye of knowledgeable instructors.  In this past weekend's course, a few buddies that I shoot with often in another group was able to attend this class.  While it's always good to shoot with buddies, I found that observing them (some of them were in a different relay) provided a whole different perspective on the course.  To be able to see what others were doing and listen to the tips that they got.  That was always an aspect of attending shooting courses I enjoyed, but having shooting buddies there elevated that experience. 

5) Friendly competition is always a good thing.  I was sharing a target with another shooter that attends a lot of courses with this group.  He was in the first relay when we were shooting the standards.  Of course, I peeked over at his target and noticed his times.  I noticed he was shooting very well and times were very good.  That pushed me even harder.  Later in the day, one of the instructors lined up next to me in a drill and threw down a "let's go" challenge.  I was totally pumped and up for it.  It was a relatively simple course of fire and one that I had done flawlessly maybe just a minute before.  Well, with the added pressure of the challenge, I had a slight fumble and fell behind and lost.  I always look for that sort of challenge and see how I respond.  I didn't respond well that day, but looking forward to improving in that aspect and need that sort of challenge to push myself.

6) Got a lot of tips on how to clean up my own shooting.  One is being confident in being able to execute a skill with good accuracy and time and not worry about making up time.  I noticed that tendency in shot transitions, where noticed my hits getting sloppy.  Another example is concentrating on the reload, which is say step 3, and that causing a loss of focus on step 2, due to me desire or thought that I needed to make up time on step 3.  Need to train step 3 and trust that I can complete the skill as well as focus on step 2.  A lot of shooting is mental, and that always needs work. 

7) There were times when the pace of shooting with the carbine got the gun very hot.  I haven't been wearing gloves for classes lately, though I have no problem with using them.  A few months back, I switched out the rail covers out to one that was rated as being very heat resistant and not passing heat (it has no metal parts).  While the gun got really hot to the touch, it was still comfortable without gloves.  Other shooters needed gloves without the scales. 

8) Have to figure out a way and never give up.  Personally, to remember the defensive context and mindset of this type of training.  For me, that comes with adjusting to some physical limitations.  Not major, but some old injuries have caught up to me and I just need to find a way to adjust and work through them.  Similar can be said for many other shooters, but important thing is keeping aware of the mindset of this type of training.  Yeah, some folks may be in it for improving shot splits for competition, which I would say also interests me, but I am in this type of training primarily for context of defending myself and loved ones. 

9) Quality of training and vetting your trainers is important.  We're spending a lot of money as well as dedicating a lot of time.  I truly think of it as an investment and am lucky to attend shooting classes with this group.  I am also VERY happy that many of my shooting buddies are now attending these classes with me and I've already seen improvement in their shooting after a couple of classes.  I really like the style and progression of these instructors and am always looking forward to more.

10) One of the instructors asked me where I want to get to as a shooter.  I have said many times with them and in this thread that I always enjoy working fundamentals, and with more regular range days, I hope to continue to improve that.  But where I really want to get to is an opportunity to shoot side-by-side with these instructors and I am the level where they feel that they have to be on their A-game.  Of course, I realize I am not there yet, but that's where I want to be.  I am looking forward to more "let's go" challenges with these instructors.  I also appreciate that they enjoy the challenge as well and not only humor me, but have fun with the challenge as well. 

11) Correcting old bad habits is a lot harder than training new habits.  That's something I mentioned many times before in this thread, and saw that a lot this weekend.  While I surely would like to be shooting more regularly, maybe the break due to COVID was a good thing as it gave me time to reset.  Yeah, I still see old bad habits creeping back in here and there, but less and less.

Once again, always a fun day on the range with this group.  I am also seeing more and more friends of mine express interest in becoming firearms owners for a variety of reasons.  The difficulties of becoming a first time firearms owner in Hawaii aside, I just hope they invest in quality training once they make the decision to become responsible firearm owners. 

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 29, 2020, 02:28:52 PM
It's a little over a month since my last live fire training session.  Haven't been doing as much dry fire/manipulations as I has planned, or at least I said I would after that training session.  Anyways, have been chatting back and forth on email and social media with a couple of instructors that I have trained with in the past, as well as one that I'm looking to take a class with eventually.  Anyways, many lessons are life lessons.

1) Be capable or train to help get yourself capable.  In shooting, and life in general, there's physical and mental capabilities and limitations.  It's usually the mental limitations that are hindrances.  As mentioned previously, some old injuries has caught up to me and I was getting pretty down about not being able to do things like how I used to, or at least how I think I should still be able to if it wasn't for the physical stuff.  Anyways, this one instructor that I've been chatting with is pretty fit and an excellent shooter.  However, from years of being a "working professional", he had a lot of injuries over that time.  Then recently, he posted about pushing himself in physical training and that nerve damage in his arm makes stuff like heavy deadlifts difficult almost dangerous at times, but he works through it.  If he hadn't mentioned that, many probably would have never known.  We all have our internal struggles, and up to us to power through, or at least try to.

2) Staying in one's swimlane.  It never ceases to amaze me that people feel the need to chime in and try to show how much they know, or at least think they know.  I mean I know I don't know everything and always willing to learn, but I can usually quickly tell the differences.  Anyways, as I mentioned above, due to lockdown, I have been chatting alot with instructors and often on social media.  A few times this week alone I was in the middle of a conversation and some "expert" decides to chime in and with feedback ranging from  ??? to  ::)  I ignore, but was funny when the instructors come back and put those knuckleheads back into place.   ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on August 29, 2020, 07:13:16 PM
It's a little over a month since my last live fire training session.  Haven't been doing as much dry fire/manipulations as I has planned, or at least I said I would after that training session.  Anyways, have been chatting back and forth on email and social media with a couple of instructors that I have trained with in the past, as well as one that I'm looking to take a class with eventually.  Anyways, many lessons are life lessons.

1) Be capable or train to help get yourself capable.  In shooting, and life in general, there's physical and mental capabilities and limitations.  It's usually the mental limitations that are hindrances.  As mentioned previously, some old injuries has caught up to me and I was getting pretty down about not being able to do things like how I used to, or at least how I think I should still be able to if it wasn't for the physical stuff.  Anyways, this one instructor that I've been chatting with is pretty fit and an excellent shooter.  However, from years of being a "working professional", he had a lot of injuries over that time.  Then recently, he posted about pushing himself in physical training and that nerve damage in his arm makes stuff like heavy deadlifts difficult almost dangerous at times, but he works through it.  If he hadn't mentioned that, many probably would have never known.  We all have our internal struggles, and up to us to power through, or at least try to.


that's what she told me about you
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on August 29, 2020, 07:14:02 PM
2) Staying in one's swimlane.  It never ceases to amaze me that people feel the need to chime in and try to show how much they know, or at least think they know.  I mean I know I don't know everything and always willing to learn, but I can usually quickly tell the differences.  Anyways, as I mentioned above, due to lockdown, I have been chatting alot with instructors and often on social media.  A few times this week alone I was in the middle of a conversation and some "expert" decides to chime in and with feedback ranging from  ??? to  ::)  I ignore, but was funny when the instructors come back and put those knuckleheads back into place.   ;D

yeah, your asshole boss doesn't know when to shut up sometimes...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 29, 2020, 07:15:50 PM
yeah, your asshole boss doesn't know when to shut up sometimes...
Esp when he’s had some whiskey
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 01, 2021, 09:59:26 AM
Was able to stretch the legs on my LPVO setup this past weekend.  Was my first time shooting this setup beyond 350 ish range.  The 200 to 600 yard range was one reason for this setup, so it was good to be able to test it.

Highlights:
1) Target range was 550 yards (+/-).  Setup was BCM midlength upper, 16" BFH barrel and Nightforce ATACR 1-8 and 193.  So nothing particularly special in terms of accuracy.  I had at least a baseline of the velocity of this upper and 193, but not a lot of data.  The data with ballistic app proved to be at least decent in the 200 to 350 yard range with ability to have first shot hits on steel targets about 8" diameter.  It took me about 2-3 shots to get settled on the holds, but the 3.1 mils hold from the ballistic app proved to be "good enough".

2) The clarity of the LPVO is awesome at 350 yards. However, the target at 550 yards was a bit blurry.  I assume it was mostly due to parallax, but the location was a bit misty when we shot at the this particular targets, so not sure what led to the clarity issues.  Will have to try again on a clear(er) and sunny day.

3) The ATACR 1-8 reticle has proven awesome for the "window" that I had envisioned.  Which was 1x red dot like ease of use and performance out to distance.  Overall, I'm very happy with the performance of the ATACR.

Overall great to confirm that the setup can perform as envisioned, at least if I do my part.  Would've been good to see if others could have similar success with this setup, but we only had limited time left in the shooting session.  Am looking forward to shooting this upper at distance more, but happy to know that at least initial results appear to confirm that it's good for the distances envisioned. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on February 01, 2021, 10:26:07 AM
tfti

Was able to stretch the legs on my LPVO setup this past weekend.  Was my first time shooting this setup beyond 350 ish range.  The 200 to 600 yard range was one reason for this setup, so it was good to be able to test it.

Highlights:
1) Target range was 550 yards (+/-).  Setup was BCM midlength upper, 16" BFH barrel and Nightforce ATACR 1-8 and 193.  So nothing particularly special in terms of accuracy.  I had at least a baseline of the velocity of this upper and 193, but not a lot of data.  The data with ballistic app proved to be at least decent in the 200 to 350 yard range with ability to have first shot hits on steel targets about 8" diameter.  It took me about 2-3 shots to get settled on the holds, but the 3.1 mils hold from the ballistic app proved to be "good enough".

2) The clarity of the LPVO is awesome at 350 yards. However, the target at 550 yards was a bit blurry.  I assume it was mostly due to parallax, but the location was a bit misty when we shot at the this particular targets, so not sure what led to the clarity issues.  Will have to try again on a clear(er) and sunny day.

3) The ATACR 1-8 reticle has proven awesome for the "window" that I had envisioned.  Which was 1x red dot like ease of use and performance out to distance.  Overall, I'm very happy with the performance of the ATACR.

Overall great to confirm that the setup can perform as envisioned, at least if I do my part.  Would've been good to see if others could have similar success with this setup, but we only had limited time left in the shooting session.  Am looking forward to shooting this upper at distance more, but happy to know that at least initial results appear to confirm that it's good for the distances envisioned.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 01, 2021, 10:27:55 AM
tfti
Only non-assholes allowed. . .

I'm still kinda borderline. . . at least for now. . .  ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on February 01, 2021, 11:10:34 AM
Only non-assholes allowed. . .

I'm still kinda borderline. . . at least for now. . .  ;D

your boss is an asshole...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: WTF?Shane on February 01, 2021, 04:55:36 PM
Was able to stretch the legs on my LPVO setup this past weekend.  Was my first time shooting this setup beyond 350 ish range.  The 200 to 600 yard range was one reason for this setup, so it was good to be able to test it.

Highlights:
1) Target range was 550 yards (+/-).  Setup was BCM midlength upper, 16" BFH barrel and Nightforce ATACR 1-8 and 193.  So nothing particularly special in terms of accuracy.  I had at least a baseline of the velocity of this upper and 193, but not a lot of data.  The data with ballistic app proved to be at least decent in the 200 to 350 yard range with ability to have first shot hits on steel targets about 8" diameter.  It took me about 2-3 shots to get settled on the holds, but the 3.1 mils hold from the ballistic app proved to be "good enough".

2) The clarity of the LPVO is awesome at 350 yards. However, the target at 550 yards was a bit blurry.  I assume it was mostly due to parallax, but the location was a bit misty when we shot at the this particular targets, so not sure what led to the clarity issues.  Will have to try again on a clear(er) and sunny day.

3) The ATACR 1-8 reticle has proven awesome for the "window" that I had envisioned.  Which was 1x red dot like ease of use and performance out to distance.  Overall, I'm very happy with the performance of the ATACR.

Overall great to confirm that the setup can perform as envisioned, at least if I do my part.  Would've been good to see if others could have similar success with this setup, but we only had limited time left in the shooting session.  Am looking forward to shooting this upper at distance more, but happy to know that at least initial results appear to confirm that it's good for the distances envisioned.

Saw a deal for a 1-8x ATACR, but passed on it because I rarely get the opportunity to shoot stuff at a distance.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 01, 2021, 05:05:09 PM
Saw a deal for a 1-8x ATACR, but passed on it because I rarely get the opportunity to shoot stuff at a distance.
I thought you already had an LPVO.

Yeah, opportunities to shoot beyond 100 yards is rare.  It was a big reason I didn't do much with my Rem 700 after the steel was taken down at Koko Head. 

And it's not like I particularly envision "needing" to shoot stuff at distance.  This was more of a case of wanting to try and confirming I could, both in terms of equipment and personal capability.  More of a personal challenge and curiosity than anything else. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 02, 2021, 01:13:35 PM
Had a vid, 1st of it's kind.  Cop using LVPO to take out bad guy in hostage situation.  You see him adjusting the optic and taking the shot from resting on his door. Estimate distance about 30 yards.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 02, 2021, 01:50:44 PM
Had a vid, 1st of it's kind.  Cop using LVPO to take out bad guy in hostage situation.  You see him adjusting the optic and taking the shot from resting on his door. Estimate distance about 30 yards.
Gotta do what is needed to make the shot.  My 0.02 (essentially worthless thoughts) is that trained officers should now their holds in that scenario.  At least from training with those who have some level of experience in the subject.  That said, maybe his reticle had some things that help with the holdover.  Similar for the EoTech reticle at in your face distances.   
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 18, 2021, 10:39:33 AM
Shot a handgun class a couple of weeks ago with a group that I've shot with dozens of times now.  They haven't had classes much during the pandemic, so it was good to be back out shooting with them, as well as with a bunch of like-minded folks that I've gotten to know over the years shooting with this group.  All great people.  Always have fun in these classes, along with the learning.

Shot my "backup" Gucci Glock.  I had installed the RMR not that long ago, so first time really shooting it with the RMR.  I had intended on shooting this one as irons, but decided to go with the RMR.  I still have my 17s with iron sights.  My other Gucci Glock with RMR has been my main training/class handgun, but that had to be sent back for some feeding issues.  The issues were resolved after that trip back to the manufacturer, so I was wondering how this one would be.  I bought them at the same time.  They are both based of the 19, but different models.  ***knocking on wood*** was good in the class.  A little over 300 rounds and no malfunctions.  Shot maybe 100 before that through this gun, so seems like it doesn't have the same issues as the other one. 

Had not shot a class in a while, so I was pretty rusty going in.  I haven't been doing much dry fire as well, so was wondering how I would do.  The first drill went well, far better than I expected with the rust.  So I was pretty happy.  Still wasn't as sharp as I was when just before COVID, we were getting on a pretty regular cycle of classes, as well as with other training opportunities and open shoots.  But a good reminder that shooting is a perishable skill. 

Some highlights:
1) Magpul Glock mags seem to be working out great.  They are priced a LOT better than Glock mags and have functioned really well in my 19s.  The one minor downside for classes is that the loaded round indicator only confirms the max, whereas the factory Glock mags show where you are along the way.  Not a big deal either way, but a very minor note/hassle for classes. 

2) No gear changes or wants after this class.  My current setup has been like this for a few years now, though not as much shooting during COVID.  Pretty happy with this setup.   

3) Don't want to get too deep into the class content, but this one was a progression for most in the class.  It covered a lot of things that I had been exposed to along the way, but this class went deeper into those skills as well as context of the whys.  That's what I love about this group.  Skills are well structured, progress and build, with a lot of explanation and discussion on the whys.  That's a big part of shooting, especially for those doing so for a defensive mindset (as opposed to general plinking, competition, etc). 

4) Friendly competition is fun.  Both with the instructors and fellow shooters.  Add in tighter time constraints to push things.  Stress does interesting things. 

Overall, it was a great day of shooting.  I thought is was a "high quality" 300 rounds as it seemed like I shot a lot more. 

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 27, 2021, 03:38:22 PM
Took a handgun skill builder this weekend. 1st time doing so since at least june 2020.

Noticed the mental fatigue toward the end.

Used my new holster that has a hood. It unlocks differently than just pushing down or down and forward. So thumb had some wear on it toward the end of class.  Since i was the only 1 with this type of retention, my draw was slowest of the group. But my time to 1st shot made up for it.

Noticed 1st shot is good. 2nd and on isnt as accurate as the 1st shot.

Was only guy on my team running irons. Im too poor to run RDS.

Shot about 150rds cause last exercise i sucked and cost me 50rds (5mags). If u do it perfect, 18rds to complete.


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 27, 2021, 08:49:35 PM
Took a handgun skill builder this weekend. 1st time doing so since at least june 2020.

Noticed the mental fatigue toward the end.

Used my new holster that has a hood. It unlocks differently than just pushing down or down and forward. So thumb had some wear on it toward the end of class.  Since i was the only 1 with this type of retention, 1) my draw was slowest of the group. But my time to 1st shot made up for it.

2)Noticed 1st shot is good. 2nd and on isnt as accurate as the 1st shot.

Was only guy on my team running irons. Im too poor to run RDS.

Shot about 150rds cause last exercise i sucked and cost me 50rds (5mags). If u do it perfect, 18rds to complete.


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
1) Wanna run that by me/us again?  You mean they were only faster than you in clearing the holster?

2) Assume you mean on drills where there are quick(er) second shots.  Why do you think that is? 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 27, 2021, 09:26:38 PM
1) Wanna run that by me/us again?  You mean they were only faster than you in clearing the holster?

2) Assume you mean on drills where there are quick(er) second shots.  Why do you think that is?
1)yes. By the time i disengaged the hood, their guns were already out of the holster and chest level.

2) i tend to rush follow up shots and sights arent perfectly aligned, but close enough. Compared to slow fire.

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 28, 2021, 07:02:44 AM
1)yes. By the time i disengaged the hood, their guns were already out of the holster and chest level.

2) i tend to rush follow up shots and sights arent perfectly aligned, but close enough. Compared to slow fire.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
1) Was your time from "start/go/buzzer" to first shot faster? 
2) Uh. . . that might be a clue. . . That said, context specific.  Say one dot drill (meant to work on and/or show certain things) vs say put multiple rounds into a 6" circle on a par time. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 28, 2021, 08:46:02 AM
1) Was your time from "start/go/buzzer" to first shot faster? 
2) Uh. . . that might be a clue. . . That said, context specific.  Say one dot drill (meant to work on and/or show certain things) vs say put multiple rounds into a 6" circle on a par time.

IDK what the standard buzzer was, they didn't tell us.  But with my old Gcode holster with a push down button to disengage the hood, I was able to keep up with everyone.  I just like hood retention, IDK why. 

Had 1 instructor try to show me something and tried to disengage my hood, and was unable to do so.  He gave up and told me to do it for him.  Granted he only took a few seconds at it, it showed the not normal push down button or push down and forward button.

But what I do like about the new button is that it allows me to get a higher grip on the pistol from the holster.  Compared to my Gcode which had the push down button.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 28, 2021, 09:03:58 AM
IDK what the standard buzzer was, they didn't tell us. But with my old Gcode holster with a push down button to disengage the hood, I was able to keep up with everyone.  I just like hood retention, IDK why. 

Had 1 instructor try to show me something and tried to disengage my hood, and was unable to do so.  He gave up and told me to do it for him.  Granted he only took a few seconds at it, it showed the not normal push down button or push down and forward button.

But what I do like about the new button is that it allows me to get a higher grip on the pistol from the holster.  Compared to my Gcode which had the push down button.

Quote
my draw was slowest of the group. But my time to 1st shot made up for it.
Doesn't really matter (at least to me, but trying to help you), but I am asking how you are establishing how your "time to 1st shot made up for it" if you don't have a metric. 

As for gear choices, go with what you think/know is best for you.  I personally go for what is an enabler, never a disabler.  If you like your gear because it's cool, color is nice, whatever, cool.  However, I think one should know why they are doing so. . . maybe that's just me. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 28, 2021, 10:32:59 AM
Shot handgun this past weekend.  Shot my original Glock with RMR that is a ZEV slide with a basic frame for my 34.  Much different trigger than my Gucci Glocks that I've been shooting a lot lately.  Overall, I shot it better than I expected.  I had expected to notice a difference with the trigger, but noticed the difference in the grips more.  The gun I was shooting is an unmodified Gen 4 frame, whereas my Gucci Glocks are stippled (on the less aggressive side) Gen 3 frames.  It was really hot and humid this past weekend.  I had been shooting Gen 4 frames for a while and thought it was fine.  Now that I've been shooting the stipple Gen 3 frames, I really appreciate that texture in hot and humid weather.  The Gen 4 frame texture is ok, but the stippled grip is way better. 

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 28, 2021, 11:54:56 AM
Doesn't really matter (at least to me, but trying to help you), but I am asking how you are establishing how your "time to 1st shot made up for it" if you don't have a metric. 

As for gear choices, go with what you think/know is best for you.  I personally go for what is an enabler, never a disabler.  If you like your gear because it's cool, color is nice, whatever, cool.  However, I think one should know why they are doing so. . . maybe that's just me. . .

I used my peripherals for the shooters to my left and right.  So by the time I disengaged the hood, other shooters had already upholstered and gun was chest level and about to turn gun toward the target and press out. At about that time, is when I was able to draw from holster.  So I got my 1st shot off b4 they got their 1st shot off.  Sorry, don't mean to be all secretive by not telling the time.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 28, 2021, 12:57:42 PM

I used my peripherals for the shooters to my left and right.  So by the time I disengaged the hood, other shooters had already upholstered and gun was chest level and about to turn gun toward the target and press out. At about that time, is when I was able to draw from holster.  So I got my 1st shot off b4 they got their 1st shot off.  Sorry, don't mean to be all secretive by not telling the time.
I don't think you're being secretive.  Was trying to understand your statements.  That's one thing I like about the ALS.  Intuitive and essentially "normal" draw. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 28, 2021, 01:06:02 PM
I don't think you're being secretive.  Was trying to understand your statements.  That's one thing I like about the ALS.  Intuitive and essentially "normal" draw.

If that was the Safari Land one, IIRC the VP9 was like $200. The one I got was mom n pop made from New Hampshire and about $80. Didn't want to spend too much incase I add RDS. And I got tired of taking off my WML prior to classes. Gcode no make with hood and WML.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBwXC6WvHcs&t=9s

Here's a vid of my actual holster being made. He used it as a vid.

FF to 34:46 to see how the hood disengages.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: WTF?Shane on June 28, 2021, 08:10:18 PM
I played airsoft this weekend. That counts, right?

Got wrecked because my goggles keep fogging up and I couldn't see shit. Ordered some new goggles.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 28, 2021, 08:27:47 PM
If that was the Safari Land one, IIRC the VP9 was like $200. The one I got was mom n pop made from New Hampshire and about $80. Didn't want to spend too much incase I add RDS. And I got tired of taking off my WML prior to classes. Gcode no make with hood and WML.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBwXC6WvHcs&t=9s

Here's a vid of my actual holster being made. He used it as a vid.

FF to 34:46 to see how the hood disengages.
Haven’t used of heard of that holster or hood type. I see a couple of issues right off the bat. Anyways, hope it works out for you…
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 28, 2021, 08:28:45 PM
I played airsoft this weekend. That counts, right?

Got wrecked because my goggles keep fogging up and I couldn't see shit. Ordered some new goggles.
Sure it counts. Learned valuable lessons  ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 29, 2021, 08:50:15 AM
Haven’t used of heard of that holster or hood type. I see a couple of issues right off the bat. Anyways, hope it works out for you…

I was looking for holsters and his channel popped up on my YT.  What issues do you see? 

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 29, 2021, 09:49:09 AM
I was looking for holsters and his channel popped up on my YT.  What issues do you see?
That the lever/mechanism is pushed away from the body of the holster, toward you/your waist.  Seems like it would be prone to having something either restricting that movement or it hanging up.  Not sure if you have an offset hangar, so there's a gap, or if it's closer to your waist.  Thicker clothing also comes to mind.  Shooting from "non-standard" positions another. 

I mean any retention holster can have similar issues, with some more prone with others (like the Serpa).  However, that "toward you to disengage" to me seemed to be more prone to hang ups. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 29, 2021, 09:55:05 AM
That the lever/mechanism is pushed away from the body of the holster, toward you/your waist.  Seems like it would be prone to having something either restricting that movement or it hanging up.  Not sure if you have an offset hangar, so there's a gap, or if it's closer to your waist.  Thicker clothing also comes to mind.  Shooting from "non-standard" positions another. 

I mean any retention holster can have similar issues, with some more prone with others (like the Serpa).  However, that "toward you to disengage" to me seemed to be more prone to hang ups.

I actually did notice that too.  I haven't tried using it from inside a car yet, but can see how that would take some getting used to. I'll also try prone or like positions later when I get home and keep you posted.

But I did try getting into my car with my plate carrier on and had a hard time. The steering wheel was snagging on the mag pouches in the front.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 29, 2021, 10:26:42 AM
I actually did notice that too.  I haven't tried using it from inside a car yet, but can see how that would take some getting used to. I'll also try prone or like positions later when I get home and keep you posted.

But I did try getting into my car with my plate carrier on and had a hard time. The steering wheel was snagging on the mag pouches in the front.

As far as retention mechanisms, I personally think any holster that can keep a gun from falling out when running, bending down, or dropping trow to take a dump is all you need for concealed carry.  That can be IWB, OWB or a shoulder rig as long as you have the proper attire to conceal it.  I doubt you'll be fighting for control of your pistol in the holster if nobody knows you're wearing it.  I like my Alien Gear hybrid that has an adjustable friction retention and can be worn inside or outside the waistband.

For open carry, the situation changes.  That's when you do want a better retention system.  I like the SafariLand ALS holsters for that.  If you're constantly taking the firearm or holster off to place in a vehicle console or a stand next to your Lazy-Boy, the quick release plates might be for you.  You can detach the holster from your belt and reattach it to a bracket in the car or on the outside of your side table.  Same holster and gun for any location.

Those mounting plates are not cheap, so that's one drawback.  Another is it does push the holster away from the body a fraction of an inch.  For me, that's fine.  Helps to clear the love handles!

The SafariLand model 6378 holster is on Amazon now for $40.79 w/Prime shipping.  Comes with the paddle AND belt loop attachments.

The thumb release lever is inside and next to your body.  Less likely anyone else will be able to get to it first.  The lever is positioned so it feels very natural to press it while drawing.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000U3X4JG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The QLS quick release mounting plates are $22.99 for a set with 1 mounting plate and 1 "fork" insert.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002868Q46/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 29, 2021, 12:40:20 PM
If OC is ever legal in HI, I plan on using my current AIWB, but have my shirt tucked behind it.  This way the pistol stays in front of me the entire time and cannot be seen from the sides or rear.  But is still in the open.

I guarantee some HI people gonna freak out when they see a pistol on a hip. Then HPD who has zero clue about the new law will harass you.  Same thing gonna happen when tasers are legal come Jan 1st.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 29, 2021, 05:40:38 PM
I actually did notice that too.  I haven't tried using it from inside a car yet, but can see how that would take some getting used to. I'll also try prone or like positions later when I get home and keep you posted.

But I did try getting into my car with my plate carrier on and had a hard time. The steering wheel was snagging on the mag pouches in the front.
#howyougonnafitwithkitinsideanEV

 ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 30, 2021, 05:16:18 PM
Tried my Faltac hood retention in various fighting positions.

It sucks. Im gonna look into safariland that has a hood because they are like the only ones who make it for a VP9 with TLR1.

Im gonna have to figure out a way to attach my RTI hanger on it. I like it and already have the drop leg set up.

I emailed gcode to see if they can make 1 for a wml b4 ordering safari.  Awaiting response.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


Edit

Gcode makes a RTI hanger that works on the safariland. Gonna go with lvl3 retention. Ordering both tomorrow. Plus if OC is legal in HI, i can use this too, just change from drop leg to hip attachment.

Buy once, cry once wasnt learned. #doesntbuyoncecryonce.

.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 01, 2021, 09:04:56 AM
Update:

Safariland Holster ordered. With ALS/SLS retention's.  G code won't make a hood type that has a WML for the VP9.  Also ordered the universal RTI hanger that attaches to the Safariland holster. That way it works on my drop leg.

Thanks DRCK for the input.  I never thought about trying various positions and undoing the hoot retention system.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on July 01, 2021, 10:00:47 AM
Update:

Safariland Holster ordered. With ALS/SLS retention's.  G code won't make a hood type that has a WML for the VP9.  Also ordered the universal RTI hanger that attaches to the Safariland holster. That way it works on my drop leg.

Thanks DRCK for the input.  I never thought about trying various positions and undoing the hoot retention system.

buy twice, cry twice...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 01, 2021, 11:04:46 AM
More like buy 4x. Serpa, gcode (non-wml), faltac (wml), safari.

Hope no RDS or gonna be 5x.

No focus

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 01, 2021, 06:51:56 PM
More like buy 4x. Serpa, gcode (non-wml), faltac (wml), safari.

Hope no RDS or gonna be 5x.

No focus

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
There are many holsters that are RDS “accepting”. I’ve tried many holsters, but luckily mostly for the various iterations/versions of Glocks. My holsters for other guns are typically plain.

If you had a Glock 17 with X300, I could’ve given you a Safariland SLS.

When you say “hood”. Do you mean the bail? The strap that runs behind the gun when in the holster? 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: TooFewPews on July 01, 2021, 06:55:15 PM
When you say “hood”. Do you mean the bail? The strap that runs behind the gun when in the holster?

I think he means foreskin


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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 01, 2021, 07:08:11 PM
buy twice, cry twice...
G-Code has 20% off sale this weekend, so 80% cry?  :rofl:

Safariland has discount codes here and there, and for instructors. Wait times can be  ::) tho…
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on July 01, 2021, 07:14:10 PM
I think he means foreskin


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heads
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 01, 2021, 08:06:45 PM
There are many holsters that are RDS “accepting”. I’ve tried many holsters, but luckily mostly for the various iterations/versions of Glocks. My holsters for other guns are typically plain.

If you had a Glock 17 with X300, I could’ve given you a Safariland SLS.

When you say “hood”. Do you mean the bail? The strap that runs behind the gun when in the holster?
The SLS on the safari holsters = my hood. Idk what its really called.



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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 01, 2021, 08:08:38 PM
G-Code has 20% off sale this weekend, so 80% cry?  :rofl:

Safariland has discount codes here and there, and for instructors. Wait times can be  ::) tho…
I had a 10% off for signing up for email. So $160.

Are the instructor discounts delayed cause regular customer orders go out first? Like how SIGs ones do.  Cause im hoping it comes in b4 our trip to KS for classes in Sept.

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 01, 2021, 08:08:50 PM
heads
Covered heads

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 01, 2021, 08:13:39 PM
I had a 10% off for signing up for email. So $160.

Are the instructor discounts delayed cause regular customer orders go out first? Like how SIGs ones do.  Cause im hoping it comes in b4 our trip to KS for classes in Sept.

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Think backorder in general. I’ve ordered from other sites. Safariland site seems to make you order the whole set/system. I just want the holster body and can add the QLS fork.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 01, 2021, 08:16:24 PM
The SLS on the safari holsters = my hood. Idk what its really called.



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Some companies call that retention strap the hood. I was thinking the cowl (not hood now that I looked up again) from the G-Code system.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 01, 2021, 08:20:43 PM
Think backorder in general. I’ve ordered from other sites. Safariland site seems to make you order the whole set/system. I just want the holster body and can add the QLS fork.
Thats why i ordered the basic attachment system to ur belt from safari. Im gonna replace it with RTI hanger from gcode.

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 01, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Some companies call that retention strap the hood. I was thinking the cowl (not hood now that I looked up again) from the G-Code system.
From now in HI, it will be known as foreskin.

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 01, 2021, 11:00:18 PM
From now in HI, it will be known as foreskin.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Whatever floats your boat bro. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 26, 2021, 08:46:52 AM
Took a HDF combo skill builder.

Rifle is g2g, but the pistol needs work as usual.  Was shooting low at 10 yards for the first exercise (missed the 8x11 white paper 1 of 10 hit).  But 2nd exercise at 15yrds, all on the money.  So maybe cold v. warmed up.  But IMO, low is better than too right or too left.  Because it would still be on target v. missing wide.

Used the old G-code foreskin holster instead of the FalTac 1.  So I had to remove my WML b4 class.  Safariland 6000 series should be shipped on 8/2.

It wasn't super sunny all SB, but wasn't overcast either. Still was super drained later in the day and the next day. Which is the usual.  I drank 1 quart gatorade and about 3/4 gallon water for the 3-4 hour SB.  But even if I drank 2 gatorades, I still feel the same. This might be an issue when we go to Kansas and take a 3 day class.

What I did have to adjust was when recovering the rifle, I used to grab infront the magwell when the rifle is to next to my hip on my side. But with my warbelt, the mag now gets in the way with the sling. So I had to grab from my optic riser instead (Romeo5 RDS).  Which is pretty common. I was just doing it wrong all these years.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 01, 2021, 06:09:37 PM
Took a HDF combo skill builder.

Rifle is g2g, but the pistol needs work as usual.  Was shooting low at 10 yards for the first exercise (missed the 8x11 white paper 1 of 10 hit).  But 2nd exercise at 15yrds, all on the money.  So maybe cold v. warmed up.  But IMO, low is better than too right or too left.  Because it would still be on target v. missing wide.

Used the old G-code foreskin holster instead of the FalTac 1.  So I had to remove my WML b4 class.  Safariland 6000 series should be shipped on 8/2.

It wasn't super sunny all SB, but wasn't overcast either. Still was super drained later in the day and the next day. Which is the usual.  I drank 1 quart gatorade and about 3/4 gallon water for the 3-4 hour SB.  But even if I drank 2 gatorades, I still feel the same. This might be an issue when we go to Kansas and take a 3 day class.

What I did have to adjust was when recovering the rifle, I used to grab infront the magwell when the rifle is to next to my hip on my side. But with my warbelt, the mag now gets in the way with the sling. So I had to grab from my optic riser instead (Romeo5 RDS).  Which is pretty common. I was just doing it wrong all these years.
You had 1 of 10 hits on an 8.5" x 11" paper at 10 yards?   :o 

I like shooting cold tests/drills.  I try to mix them up so as so not practice the test/drill, but that's good to evaluate where one is at.  I found it was especially useful or eye opening after breaks away from shooting. 

The sun on range days gets to me too, especially since I had not been outside much during COVID.  Otherwise, I would've been shooting matches or range days in the action bays maybe 2-3 times a month.  Yeah, be sure to hydrate when you take classes.  I've found that classes in low humidity climates can be sneaky in terms of hydration since you may not realize how much you're perspiring.  Noticed that when I would golf in Vegas.  Drank a lot of water (and other beverages) and didn't piss as much as I thought I would. 

How your gear works with, or conflicts with shooting is one big thing I pay attention to on training type range days, as well as mention to folks that are newer to training.  Some things that may seem ok when dry manipulations may come to light when shooting.  That said, I've never seen anyone grab their long gun by optic.  I typically have palm on the magwell, or have seen folks use the rail.  But if that works for you, then rock on. 

Good on you for continuing with skill builder events.  Even with this ammo craziness. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 02, 2021, 09:57:07 AM
You had 1 of 10 hits on an 8.5" x 11" paper at 10 yards?   :o 

I like shooting cold tests/drills.  I try to mix them up so as so not practice the test/drill, but that's good to evaluate where one is at.  I found it was especially useful or eye opening after breaks away from shooting. 

The sun on range days gets to me too, especially since I had not been outside much during COVID.  Otherwise, I would've been shooting matches or range days in the action bays maybe 2-3 times a month.  Yeah, be sure to hydrate when you take classes.  I've found that classes in low humidity climates can be sneaky in terms of hydration since you may not realize how much you're perspiring.  Noticed that when I would golf in Vegas.  Drank a lot of water (and other beverages) and didn't piss as much as I thought I would. 

How your gear works with, or conflicts with shooting is one big thing I pay attention to on training type range days, as well as mention to folks that are newer to training.  Some things that may seem ok when dry manipulations may come to light when shooting.  That said, I've never seen anyone grab their long gun by optic.  I typically have palm on the magwell, or have seen folks use the rail.  But if that works for you, then rock on. 

Good on you for continuing with skill builder events.  Even with this ammo craziness.

I was waiting for your input, then I saw your post about being off island.  I welcome your $0.02 always.

Yeah that cold drill was all jacked up.  Normally it isn't that bad.  But I guess shooting low is better than shooting too much left or right.  As in knowing what's behind the target and shooting wide is worst.  At least low would be appendix/torso/balls area still.

It was weird, because my gear set up hasn't changed and prior skill builders, I grab from the mag will with no issues. But this time the sling was getting hung up on the mag.  So I had do adapt and work thru the problem and switched to the optic post. Maybe I got fatter during the lockdown.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 02, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
I was waiting for your input, then I saw your post about being off island.  I welcome your $0.02 always.

Yeah that cold drill was all jacked up.  Normally it isn't that bad.  But I guess shooting low is better than shooting too much left or right.  As in knowing what's behind the target and shooting wide is worst.  At least low would be appendix/torso/balls area still.

It was weird, because my gear set up hasn't changed and prior skill builders, I grab from the mag will with no issues. But this time the sling was getting hung up on the mag.  So I had do adapt and work thru the problem and switched to the optic post. Maybe I got fatter during the lockdown.
Yeah, I was out of town last week for work.  First time traveling since COVID.  It was pretty interesting.  The airport and flight both ways were packed.  Seemed like business as usual, but with masks.  It did seem like some people have lost some social skills/graces, but not too bad. 

Assume you were shooting a striker fired gun.  Not a DA/SA.  Suggest trying some ball and dummy drills next time to the "regular" pistol range.  Something I work on regularly, even when I've been shooting a lot.  Actually, sometimes even more so if I've been shooting a lot.  Shooting matches are picking up again.  Shooting those may help you see stuff like cold starts and stuff. 

On the rifle to handgun transitions, was it standing?  When you transition, do you notice if you rotate the gun one way or the other?  I tend to rotate my left had clockwise and sort of a "sweep to the side" motion.  I mean the gun will be where it will be when you transition back.  But something that I did notice my habit, and others doing differently.  Not saying one is better than the other, but just something that I noticed.  I also wear my sling like a pendant when shooting, as opposed to fully "in" the sling.  Something I have been meaning to try differently, but just haven't gotten around to trying. 

Sheesh, have you been eating that much during lockdown?  I have a few buddies that had some pretty big swings.  They were in great shape prior to COVID and had to go down belt sizes.  But now after COVID, they are back to their old belt and had to loosen it a bit.   :o  :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 02, 2021, 12:30:38 PM
Yeah, I was out of town last week for work.  First time traveling since COVID.  It was pretty interesting.  The airport and flight both ways were packed.  Seemed like business as usual, but with masks.  It did seem like some people have lost some social skills/graces, but not too bad. 

Assume you were shooting a striker fired gun.  Not a DA/SA.  Suggest trying some ball and dummy drills next time to the "regular" pistol range.  Something I work on regularly, even when I've been shooting a lot.  Actually, sometimes even more so if I've been shooting a lot.  Shooting matches are picking up again.  Shooting those may help you see stuff like cold starts and stuff. 

On the rifle to handgun transitions, was it standing?  When you transition, do you notice if you rotate the gun one way or the other?  I tend to rotate my left had clockwise and sort of a "sweep to the side" motion.  I mean the gun will be where it will be when you transition back.  But something that I did notice my habit, and others doing differently.  Not saying one is better than the other, but just something that I noticed.  I also wear my sling like a pendant when shooting, as opposed to fully "in" the sling.  Something I have been meaning to try differently, but just haven't gotten around to trying. 

Sheesh, have you been eating that much during lockdown?  I have a few buddies that had some pretty big swings.  They were in great shape prior to COVID and had to go down belt sizes.  But now after COVID, they are back to their old belt and had to loosen it a bit.   :o  :rofl:

The good news is I actually had to take in my war belt about an inch recently. New Safariland holster should be arriving on Wednesday.

The hang up was while standing. I noticed the clockwise rotation of the rifle when grabbing at the magwell.  Now that I think of it, this may be the issue. I could only be rotating now for some reason and not b4.  I'm gonna try later when I get home. Where as grabbing at the riser/optic, it's harder to rotate unless you got a super strong forearm. Prob has do to with balance. By grabbing at the top, it won't rotate as easily.

The rifle was fully slung, which is my normal.  I do pendant or neck slung when doing transitions from strong to support side.  This is accomplished by just taking out by left arm from the sling b4 changing from strong to support. And when switching back mid exercise, I don't put my left arm back in.  Just keep it pendant style.  Helps shooting from support side when moving from right to left. What the SB's taught me is to recognize when to do that or unsling and shoot from the ground positions.  I mean, 1 can work thru the problem, but solving it b4 needing to gives you that few seconds.

 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 02, 2021, 03:01:49 PM
The good news is I actually had to take in my war belt about an inch recently. New Safariland holster should be arriving on Wednesday.

The hang up was while standing. I noticed the clockwise rotation of the rifle when grabbing at the magwell.  Now that I think of it, this may be the issue. I could only be rotating now for some reason and not b4.  I'm gonna try later when I get home. Where as grabbing at the riser/optic, it's harder to rotate unless you got a super strong forearm. Prob has do to with balance. By grabbing at the top, it won't rotate as easily.

The rifle was fully slung, which is my normal.  I do pendant or neck slung when doing transitions from strong to support side.  This is accomplished by just taking out by left arm from the sling b4 changing from strong to support. And when switching back mid exercise, I don't put my left arm back in.  Just keep it pendant style.  Helps shooting from support side when moving from right to left. What the SB's taught me is to recognize when to do that or unsling and shoot from the ground positions.  I mean, 1 can work thru the problem, but solving it b4 needing to gives you that few seconds.

On the transition back from rifle, try not to over think it. 

For the pendant/necklace sling method, just what I was taught a while back.  The folks that I've been taking classes with the last few years do it a little bit differently.  Through the many courses that I've taken, hadn't felt the need to change, but I do want to try their way for myself and decide.  Funny in that the last time I shot a skill builder (a long time ago), I had just switched to a longer buttstock position.  I think one, maybe two clicks longer.  Anyways, first drill with the rifle was something where I noticed the sling length was a bit too restrictive.  I caught a comment or two about that.   ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 02, 2021, 08:00:29 PM
On the transition back from rifle, try not to over think it. 

For the pendant/necklace sling method, just what I was taught a while back.  The folks that I've been taking classes with the last few years do it a little bit differently.  Through the many courses that I've taken, hadn't felt the need to change, but I do want to try their way for myself and decide.  Funny in that the last time I shot a skill builder (a long time ago), I had just switched to a longer buttstock position.  I think one, maybe two clicks longer.  Anyways, first drill with the rifle was something where I noticed the sling length was a bit too restrictive.  I caught a comment or two about that.   ;D
"I said use your sling. Not TQ the neck".

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 05, 2021, 10:44:08 AM
"I said use your sling. Not TQ the neck".

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I think the neck TQ is critical gear. . . for some. . .  :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 26, 2021, 08:04:40 AM
Took a skill builder yesterday.  Like normal, had fun and learned something.

1 thing was what the hood protection is for on my Safariland holster.  So if someone is facing you and tries to grab the pistol in the holster, which would prevent you from drawing it.  The hood protection tab stops their hand from making contact with the hood.  So you can disengage the hood still. When I go to the range, I get asked by a few people if I'm going to remove this.  Now I am not. Cause if Young v. Hawaii takes effect, I will be using this holster, but attached at the hip instead of a drop leg.

What was noticeable again is the mental fatigue toward the end of the SB. During the SB, I do well, but usually the last exercise is when I start to slip accuracy wise.  IDK how I have to train to prevent this.  I think it's mainly because I'm an indoor dog.  I mean I could go stand in the sun thru out the week, but is that really feasible? Even after the SB, due to being in the sun, around 6pm is when I start to get headache and feeling drained.  I do drink Gatorade and it helps prevent it from getting worst.During the 4 hr SB, I drank about 3/4 gallon of water and 1 bottle Gator. I did forget to apply sunscreen too and I'm very pale.  The damn sunscreen is on my bathroom counter top. I took it out and left it there so I don't forget to apply it. No focus. I might relocated to inside my range bag.

Had a few first timers and from the start to the end, they have shown a big improvement for manipulations. Accuracy takes longer than 1 SB to improve greatly on though.  But stuff like reloads, drawing, stance, etc...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on September 26, 2021, 09:53:40 AM
Took a skill builder yesterday.  Like normal, had fun and learned something.

1 thing was what the hood protection is for on my Safariland holster.  So if someone is facing you and tries to grab the pistol in the holster, which would prevent you from drawing it.  The hood protection tab stops their hand from making contact with the hood.  So you can disengage the hood still. When I go to the range, I get asked by a few people if I'm going to remove this.  Now I am not. Cause if Young v. Hawaii takes effect, I will be using this holster, but attached at the hip instead of a drop leg.

What was noticeable again is the mental fatigue toward the end of the SB. During the SB, I do well, but usually the last exercise is when I start to slip accuracy wise.  IDK how I have to train to prevent this.  I think it's mainly because I'm an indoor dog.  I mean I could go stand in the sun thru out the week, but is that really feasible? Even after the SB, due to being in the sun, around 6pm is when I start to get headache and feeling drained.  I do drink Gatorade and it helps prevent it from getting worst.During the 4 hr SB, I drank about 3/4 gallon of water and 1 bottle Gator. I did forget to apply sunscreen too and I'm very pale.  The damn sunscreen is on my bathroom counter top. I took it out and left it there so I don't forget to apply it. No focus. I might relocated to inside my range bag.

Had a few first timers and from the start to the end, they have shown a big improvement for manipulations. Accuracy takes longer than 1 SB to improve greatly on though.  But stuff like reloads, drawing, stance, etc...

If someone is attempting to get your gun, you cover the hood with your hand which prevents them from disengaging it.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on September 26, 2021, 10:22:25 AM
Took a skill builder yesterday.  Like normal, had fun and learned something.

1 thing was what the hood protection is for on my Safariland holster.  So if someone is facing you and tries to grab the pistol in the holster, which would prevent you from drawing it.  The hood protection tab stops their hand from making contact with the hood.  So you can disengage the hood still. When I go to the range, I get asked by a few people if I'm going to remove this.  Now I am not. Cause if Young v. Hawaii takes effect, I will be using this holster, but attached at the hip instead of a drop leg.

What was noticeable again is the mental fatigue toward the end of the SB. During the SB, I do well, but usually the last exercise is when I start to slip accuracy wise.  IDK how I have to train to prevent this.  I think it's mainly because I'm an indoor dog.  I mean I could go stand in the sun thru out the week, but is that really feasible? Even after the SB, due to being in the sun, around 6pm is when I start to get headache and feeling drained.  I do drink Gatorade and it helps prevent it from getting worst.During the 4 hr SB, I drank about 3/4 gallon of water and 1 bottle Gator. I did forget to apply sunscreen too and I'm very pale.  The damn sunscreen is on my bathroom counter top. I took it out and left it there so I don't forget to apply it. No focus. I might relocated to inside my range bag.

Had a few first timers and from the start to the end, they have shown a big improvement for manipulations. Accuracy takes longer than 1 SB to improve greatly on though.  But stuff like reloads, drawing, stance, etc...
For the fatigue thing, I know what you mean.  There are times where at the end of the day, I am smoked. Physically and mentally.  Especially tougher on hot and humid days.  For many classes, I also look forward to the “debrief” that follows, so I usually recover for that.  Haha.  A 30 minute cool off session in the car also helps.  When I had more frequent range days, I didn’t notice the physical part as much.  It was noticeably worse going to classes after not having range days due to COVID. 

For hydration, if you notice that you’re starting to feel it in the middle of the range day, try hydrating a bit more prior to the session.  Try notice the color of your pee.  Or if you’re not peeing during the day, that’s also an indicator of lack of hydration. 

When I had classes in dry and hot places, like AZ, a friend gave me those liquid IV things.  I noticed that it made me pee more often than normal.  Not sure if it made me feel better overall from fatigue, but definitely wasn’t dehydrated.  I learned form golfing in Vegas that easy to get dehydrated as you don’t feel like you’re sweating since it’s so dry. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 26, 2021, 10:01:51 PM
Ive noticed on overcast days, im pissing about 3x in 4 hrs. Sunny days like yesterday, 1 to none.

Ill try the hydration IV packs.  But ill do it in the next few weeks. Not a fan of trying new stuff day of range days. What if it gives me the runs. I think longs has.

I tried pocari sweat and it gave me a mean migraine about 1 hr later for 8 hrs.


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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 26, 2021, 10:21:38 PM
Ive noticed on overcast days, im pissing about 3x in 4 hrs. Sunny days like yesterday, 1 to none.

Ill try the hydration IV packs.  But ill do it in the next few weeks. Not a fan of trying new stuff day of range days. What if it gives me the runs. I think longs has.

I tried pocari sweat and it gave me a mean migraine about 1 hr later for 8 hrs.

During survival training in the middle of Texas in August, we were given 2 @ 1qt canteens.  Every hour we visited the water buffalo (portable water tank) and filled up both canteens.  The rule was to drink 2 qts per hour.

During the 9 hours of training that day, I didn't piss once, and by the end of the day when eating our only meal (MRE), I was starting to get a headache.  Headache, BTW, is the first sign of dehydration.  At that point, though, the headache might have been from only having a grasshopper for lunch!

Once you notice you're dehydrated, you're already behind the curve.  If you know ahead of time what's in store that day, you need to pre-hydrate. 

At the chow hall, we were required to drink 2 large glasses of water with each meal no matter what other beverage we consumed.  There were more red flag days that month than not -- days where a red flag was literally raised, letting everyone know we were not allowed PT or marching at attention before sundown.  We were constantly hydrating at the water cooler jugs stationed at every building.

Keeping our bodies' water concentration up in high temps was our #1 health concern.  Can't train if you can't stand or concentrate.  And if you get heat stroke, it's way more serious.

We ran 1.5 miles every morning at 5AM before 6AM breakfast.  Still hot, but not too hot!   :geekdanc:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on September 27, 2021, 04:30:04 AM
These are some of the things I do for gun classes, moreso for long multiday classes in the heat.

Eat well, hydrate, and get a good night's sleep. Starting day prior.
Prep your stuff, dry practice, and review materials for the next day.
Wear long sleeve breathable shirts and pants.
Electronic ear pro, electronic plugs are comfortable
Wear a boonie hat.
Sun screen and lip balm.
Alternate water and sports drinks.  Keep them cold.
Drink ​before you get thirsty.  Camelbacks w/ ice are great to have.
Cold fruits like oranges, nectarines, etc are a blessing
Have a good lunch.
Get in the shade and sit down at every chance
Keep the morale up.

Small problems don't seem like much but they add up and make you physically and mentally miserable.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on September 27, 2021, 07:04:04 AM
Ive noticed on overcast days, im pissing about 3x in 4 hrs. Sunny days like yesterday, 1 to none.

Ill try the hydration IV packs.  But ill do it in the next few weeks. Not a fan of trying new stuff day of range days. What if it gives me the runs. I think longs has.

I tried pocari sweat and it gave me a mean migraine about 1 hr later for 8 hrs.


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Trying new stuff on range days, and worried about the runs?  You can try just drinking more water the night before and morning of.  No need be any fancy supplements or anything.  I typically just drink water anyways.  I don't like sugary drinks. 

I've tried Pocari Sweat before, and another similar drink that was supposed to be for or what that Australian swimmer (Thorpedo or something like that) drank.  I didn't think they were performance drinks, or maybe a blend.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 27, 2021, 08:29:34 AM
Also what I did notice was that my first shot out of the holster is on the money. But follow up shots or when shooting from ready position, not so much.  It has been this way for a while.  And showed even more during the past skill builder.

I do notice the hand shaking slightly after about 3 seconds, but manageable.  Then around 7 is where I'm trying to chase the front post. The 3 seconds could be because I'm jacked up full of caffeine. Coffee in the morning.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 12:04:11 PM
The camelback suggestion is a good one.  If there's some ice in it, you keep the water and your body cooler.

You might toss in a couple of medical ice packs in case you get overheated.

If you can hydrate to the point that you need to take a piss -- and the color isn't dark yellow -- then you're succeeding in staying hydrated.  if you haven't had to go for hours, and you've been drinking like a hippo, you're still losing water faster than you can take it in.

Electrolytes and sodium (salt) help you retain water, too.  Good quality sports drinks have lots of that.  Gatorade contains water, sugar, dextrose, citric acid, salt, sodium citrate, monopotassium phosphate, gum arabic, glycerol ester of rosin along with flavorings.  The sugar provides extra carbs for immediate physical activity.

The original Gatorade was a homemade drink containing salt, sugar and lemon flavoring -- created in the 1960s for the University of Florida Gators football team.

Just some things to learn and use when you find yourself in need of hydration.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on September 27, 2021, 12:14:21 PM
Also what I did notice was that my first shot out of the holster is on the money. But follow up shots or when shooting from ready position, not so much.  It has been this way for a while.  And showed even more during the past skill builder.

I do notice the hand shaking slightly after about 3 seconds, but manageable.  Then around 7 is where I'm trying to chase the front post. The 3 seconds could be because I'm jacked up full of caffeine. Coffee in the morning.
Well, you better put up a sign on your front door on your caffeine status for the day.

Has CMO has his coffee?
Yes - If you can dance around for 7 seconds, you get chance.
No - You have 3 seconds to comply

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 27, 2021, 12:17:59 PM
The camelback suggestion is a good one.  If there's some ice in it, you keep the water and your body cooler.

You might toss in a couple of medical ice packs in case you get overheated.

If you can hydrate to the point that you need to take a piss -- and the color isn't dark yellow -- then you're succeeding in staying hydrated.  if you haven't had to go for hours, and you've been drinking like a hippo, you're still losing water faster than you can take it in.

Electrolytes and sodium (salt) help you retain water, too.  Good quality sports drinks have lots of that.  Gatorade contains water, sugar, dextrose, citric acid, salt, sodium citrate, monopotassium phosphate, gum arabic, glycerol ester of rosin along with flavorings.  The sugar provides extra carbs for immediate physical activity.

The original Gatorade was a homemade drink containing salt, sugar and lemon flavoring -- created in the 1960s for the University of Florida Gators football team.

Just some things to learn and use when you find yourself in need of hydration.

I've played sports my until end of high school and never had a hydration issue. You know the kind where u go" coach, we need water break".  Then coach makes you run more.  Still never had a problem, even though I was thirsty.  Guess it means I'm getting old and body cannot handle.

Then fast forward to my 1st bodybuilding comp where you take diuretics and dont drink water.  Asking coach for water break is nothing compared to being thirsty while doing a BB comp.  Now I know what being thirsty is.  Fist thing I did after stepping off the stage wasn't eating or wiping the oil off, it was chugging water.  Then due to dehydration, I didn't take a shit for 3 days.  Like never even had the urge to go. But yet for those 3 days, I'm eating all the junks that I couldn't eat for the past 12 weeks.  Then finally, a normal shit.  But during this time, no headache or loss of focus.  The not being in the sun is probably the kicker that makes it worst.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 27, 2021, 12:20:09 PM
Well, you better put up a sign on your front door on your caffeine status for the day.

Has CMO has his coffee?
Yes - If you can dance around for 7 seconds, you get chance.
No - You have 3 seconds to comply

 :rofl:

It's funny cause I had a few guys ask about my plate carrier and the saying is, train how you would fight. Then Mrs. CMO comes around and tells them I walk around naked at home. So plate carrier, rifle slung, war belt, and boto hanging out.  Didn't have to use the nohomo phrase, cause Mrs. CMO brought it up and not me.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on September 28, 2021, 07:35:52 AM
It's funny cause I had a few guys ask about my plate carrier and the saying is, train how you would fight. Then Mrs. CMO comes around and tells them I walk around naked at home. So plate carrier, rifle slung, war belt, and boto hanging out.  Didn't have to use the nohomo phrase, cause Mrs. CMO brought it up and not me.
???

 :crazy:  :rofl:

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 28, 2021, 07:27:30 PM
Found out from mrs. Cmo, 1 of our friends was giving out the green liquid iv. I missed out.

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 28, 2021, 07:39:48 PM
It's funny cause I had a few guys ask about my plate carrier and the saying is, train how you would fight. Then Mrs. CMO comes around and tells them I walk around naked at home. So plate carrier, rifle slung, war belt, and boto hanging out.  Didn't have to use the nohomo phrase, cause Mrs. CMO brought it up and not me.

Haven't tried that one on the wife yet...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on September 28, 2021, 07:43:17 PM
Found out from mrs. Cmo, 1 of our friends was giving out the green liquid iv. I missed out.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
https://youtu.be/sgiCS2Yj6l8
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 04, 2021, 09:16:51 AM
Picked up some Liquid IV Pasion Fruit.  Walmart didn't have Strawberry in stock.  This is my 2nd trip there, went a few days ago and only had the green box, which has some immunity stuff in it.  All others were sold out or at least not stocked.

Town Walmart sucks. Their shelves are out of stock on more items than there should be.  This was even precovid too.  Compared to the Vegas Walmart that has full shelves and nicely organized.  Vegas Walmart was more like a Target, shelves full.  Haven't been to other locations so can't compare.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on October 04, 2021, 09:26:38 AM
Picked up some Liquid IV Pasion Fruit.  Walmart didn't have Strawberry in stock.  This is my 2nd trip there, went a few days ago and only had the green box, which has some immunity stuff in it.  All others were sold out or at least not stocked.

Town Walmart sucks. Their shelves are out of stock on more items than there should be.  This was even precovid too.  Compared to the Vegas Walmart that has full shelves and nicely organized.  Vegas Walmart was more like a Target, shelves full.  Haven't been to other locations so can't compare.
I haven't been to a LOT of Walmarts around the country, but the ones that I've seen are quite similar to the town Walmart.  The Pearl City one is a bit better than the town one in terms of overall stock, organization, etc.  But I think it depends on the "types" of people that frequent the particular Walmart.  The Walmart in Anchorage, AK was VERY interesting.  Anchorage is interesting in general. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 04, 2021, 09:58:21 AM
I haven't been to a LOT of Walmarts around the country, but the ones that I've seen are quite similar to the town Walmart.  The Pearl City one is a bit better than the town one in terms of overall stock, organization, etc.  But I think it depends on the "types" of people that frequent the particular Walmart.  The Walmart in Anchorage, AK was VERY interesting.  Anchorage is interesting in general.

And "types" of workers.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on October 04, 2021, 10:22:54 AM
And "types" of workers.
Or if it is in Cracker Barrel country makes a big difference, at least that I've noticed. . .

Buffalo Soljah! But in a different context.   :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 07, 2021, 12:25:44 PM
Mrs. CMO for the clutch. Went to Walmart to get the shitty pasion fruit flavor last week.  She came home last night with Lemon Lime and Strawberry.  The Strawberry is pretty good. Not good like Pedialite strawberry, but good enough.

Drank it at the gym last night and noticed a performance drop due to me usually drinking BCAA's.  Different type of exercise drink compared to hydration based ones.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 08, 2021, 09:40:38 AM
Now I know why I have 3 boxes of Liquid IV. Mrs. CMO thought that I needed them in general. It's only for the once a month skill builders if I take them. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Wchiro on October 12, 2021, 06:34:10 PM
Picked up some Liquid IV Pasion Fruit.  Walmart didn't have Strawberry in stock.  This is my 2nd trip there, went a few days ago and only had the green box, which has some immunity stuff in it.  All others were sold out or at least not stocked.

Town Walmart sucks. Their shelves are out of stock on more items than there should be.  This was even precovid too.  Compared to the Vegas Walmart that has full shelves and nicely organized.  Vegas Walmart was more like a Target, shelves full.  Haven't been to other locations so can't compare.

Here's your problem...zoom in to the west cost ports.   https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-118.5/centery:34.0/zoom:10
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Inspector on October 13, 2021, 02:15:07 AM
I just took 2 days of training. Deadly Accuracy. While I learned a lot about shooting little tiny groups, I learned more about state of mind and mental and physical acuity while under duress of having to pull my weapon. We also learned how to properly draw from a holster and re-holster. Then we learned to do all of this under a stressful situation. They made the shooting portion fun as we played tic tac toe, we shot Popsicle sticks, and took head shots at different distances on a reactive target. We even split a business card.

Next class in the series is: Shoot Fast - Point Shooting - Shoot, Don’t Shoot.

This series of training stresses more practical learning than tactical training.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 13, 2021, 09:24:19 AM
I just took 2 days of training. Deadly Accuracy. While I learned a lot about shooting little tiny groups, I learned more about state of mind and mental and physical acuity while under duress of having to pull my weapon. We also learned how to properly draw from a holster and re-holster. Then we learned to do all of this under a stressful situation. They made the shooting portion fun as we played tic tac toe, we shot Popsicle sticks, and took head shots at different distances on a reactive target. We even split a business card.

Next class in the series is: Shoot Fast - Point Shooting - Shoot, Don’t Shoot.

This series of training stresses more practical learning than tactical training.

Lucky you. Wish HI had the abundance of training classes like the mainland does.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Inspector on October 13, 2021, 12:09:29 PM
Lucky you. Wish HI had the abundance of training classes like the mainland does.
I scheduled the training a year ago. I was scheduled to take it in March. But my wife broke her foot in February so I had to postpone until this last weekend. I want to take the next class but it may be 6 months to 9 months out. Considering how small this town is a lot of people want training.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on October 18, 2021, 10:09:57 AM
I just took 2 days of training. Deadly Accuracy. While I learned a lot about shooting little tiny groups, I learned more about state of mind and mental and physical acuity while under duress of having to pull my weapon. We also learned how to properly draw from a holster and re-holster. Then we learned to do all of this under a stressful situation. They made the shooting portion fun as we played tic tac toe, we shot Popsicle sticks, and took head shots at different distances on a reactive target. We even split a business card.

Next class in the series is: Shoot Fast - Point Shooting - Shoot, Don’t Shoot.

This series of training stresses more practical learning than tactical training.
IMO, that's big and part of SD training that I think many don't consider or pursue.  The "performance under stress" is an interesting thing to me.  Just that damn buzzer can make folks do strange things under pressure.  Self-imposed pressure, but still pressure.  Anyone can get good at bang, pause, breathe, pick nose, bang. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Inspector on October 18, 2021, 10:16:14 AM
IMO, that's big and part of SD training that I think many don't consider or pursue.  The "performance under stress" is an interesting thing to me.  Just that damn buzzer can make folks do strange things under pressure.  Self-imposed pressure, but still pressure.  Anyone can get good at bang, pause, breathe, pick nose, bang. . .
I am really taking my training and practice seriously. I go over my mindset and my attitude every day. It doesn’t mean I am going to be able to perform under duress but at least I will have a chance if it ever presents itself.

The hardest part of all of this is to make sure you don’t pick your nose with the barrel of your gun.  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2021, 11:23:42 AM
Also the after action as well. My thing is to keep my mouth shut.  Just name and "I will give a statement after I have spoke to an attorney:" and that's it.  Masaad Ayoob states to give details to the cops like witnesses or  evidence, because they may miss something.  IDK how much chatter box I will be after a high stress situation, so talking about what Ayoob recommends, may open to providing more details than needed., IMO.

Back of my USCCA card states to say "I was attacked, feared for my life and had to defend myself".  But in Hawaii, deadly force can also be used for kidnapping, rape or sodomy.  So if you make that statement but was about to be raped or sodomized, it wont look too good.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2021, 11:24:45 AM
IMO, that's big and part of SD training that I think many don't consider or pursue.  The "performance under stress" is an interesting thing to me.  Just that damn buzzer can make folks do strange things under pressure.  Self-imposed pressure, but still pressure.  Anyone can get good at bang, pause, breathe, pick nose, bang. . .

Something as small as a shot timer changes my accuracy greatly.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Inspector on October 18, 2021, 11:28:03 AM
Also the after action as well. My thing is to keep my mouth shut.  Just name and "I will give a statement after I have spoke to an attorney:" and that's it.  Masaad Ayoob states to give details to the cops like witnesses or  evidence, because they may miss something.  IDK how much chatter box I will be after a high stress situation, so talking about what Ayoob recommends, may open to providing more details than needed., IMO.

Back of my USCCA card states to say "I was attacked, feared for my life and had to defend myself".  But in Hawaii, deadly force can also be used for kidnapping, rape or sodomy.  So if you make that statement but was about to be raped or sodomized, it wont look too good.
Part of passing the training was to memorize what to say. I want to, and I will cooperate with law enforcement. But not until after I speak to a lawyer.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 18, 2021, 11:33:19 AM
IMO, that's big and part of SD training that I think many don't consider or pursue.  The "performance under stress" is an interesting thing to me.  Just that damn buzzer can make folks do strange things under pressure.  Self-imposed pressure, but still pressure.  Anyone can get good at bang, pause, breathe, pick nose, bang. . .

Ever watch the Clint Eastwood movie "Unforgiven?"  Lots of very valid points on being in a gunfight.

It takes a heck of a lot of nerve just to pull a trigger on another man.  Now throw in the fact he's shooting at you, too!  The key is to be the first to not miss.  That means being relaxed (or less panic stricken) and well trained/skilled enough to get the first or second round on target while your adrenaline is racing and you're reacting to being shot at.



Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2021, 11:36:36 AM
Ever watch the Clint Eastwood movie "Unfoigiven?"  Lots of very valid points on being in a gunfight.

It takes a heck of a lot of nerve just to pull a trigger on another man.  Now throw in the fact he's shooting at you, too!  The key is to be the first to not miss.  That means being relaxed (or less panic stricken) and well trained/skilled enough to get the first or second round on target while your adrenaline is racing and you're reacting to being shot at.

In Baldwins case, 10/10 hit the target. That's beast mode.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on October 18, 2021, 11:37:45 AM
Ever watch the Clint Eastwood movie "Unfoigiven?"  Lots of very valid points on being in a gunfight.

It takes a heck of a lot of nerve just to pull a trigger on another man.  Now throw in the fact he's shooting at you, too!  The key is to be the first to not miss.  That means being relaxed (or less panic stricken) and well trained/skilled enough to get the first or second round on target while your adrenaline is racing and you're reacting to being shot at.
Uh. . . not that particular one.  I am not gonna Google it either. . . . :rofl:

I get what you mean.  It's been a while, but I used to shoot airsoft 3v3, 4v4, etc with friends.  Not a gun fight, but does give some penalty to being hit.  Especially when some of those jackwagons had high FPS guns/settings.  Can't just pop out, get good/stable form, press off a shot, and so on.  I mean you can, but prob only going to do that once. 

I was invited to play Haji a couple of times out at Schofield in one of their mock villages.  It never panned out, but thinking back, that would've been a bad idea. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on October 18, 2021, 11:41:50 AM
Something as small as a shot timer changes my accuracy greatly.
I shot next to a trusted instructor/mentor/friend a few times in a firearms class.  First time, it was in a pistol class.  I was shooting decently well that day and when he lined up next to me and gave me a "let's go", I was ready.  It was a simple course of fire with a reload.  Well, totally fumbled the reload. . . In the "debief" later that evening, we joked about it and how I always mentioned wanting to shoot side-by-side with them and see how I stack up.  Just that anticipation of "the chance/challenge" got to me.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 18, 2021, 11:43:13 AM
I shot next to a trusted instructor/mentor/friend a few times in a firearms class.  First time, it was in a pistol class.  I was shooting decently well that day and when he lined up next to me and gave me a "let's go", I was ready.  It was a simple course of fire with a reload.  Well, totally fumbled the reload. . . In the "debief" later that evening, we joked about it and how I always mentioned wanting to shoot side-by-side with them and see how I stack up.  Just that anticipation of "the chance/challenge" got to me.

Did you Google that one?   :rofl:

The only thing certain in any gun fight is there's no prize for second place. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on October 18, 2021, 11:44:29 AM
Did you Google that one?   :rofl:
touche

dagnabbit. . .  :oops:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on October 18, 2021, 11:51:04 AM
I am really taking my training and practice seriously. I go over my mindset and my attitude every day. It doesn’t mean I am going to be able to perform under duress but at least I will have a chance if it ever presents itself.

The hardest part of all of this is to make sure you don’t pick your nose with the barrel of your gun.  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I bought a couple of books by Dave Grossman.  I read most of one.  Have to get back to it and finish them, all. 

Anyways, I do think mindset is huge.  That said, I wish I had more opportunities to train live fire as well.

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Inspector on October 18, 2021, 12:13:47 PM
I bought a couple of books by Dave Grossman.  I read most of one.  Have to get back to it and finish them, all. 

Anyways, I do think mindset is huge.  That said, I wish I had more opportunities to train live fire as well.
I guess I’m pretty lucky. I practice once or twice a week doing holster practice with live fire. So far that has been the hardest thing for me to learn. So I practice it the most.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2021, 12:21:12 PM
I guess I’m pretty lucky. I practice once or twice a week doing holster practice with live fire. So far that has been the hardest thing for me to learn. So I practice it the most.

1 thing that I learned from Carry Trainer (IG), is after a SD incident, don't rush to re-holster.  You don't wanna blow chunks of yourself off, especially now under great stress. Take your time.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2021, 12:22:35 PM
I shot next to a trusted instructor/mentor/friend a few times in a firearms class.  First time, it was in a pistol class.  I was shooting decently well that day and when he lined up next to me and gave me a "let's go", I was ready.  It was a simple course of fire with a reload.  Well, totally fumbled the reload. . . In the "debief" later that evening, we joked about it and how I always mentioned wanting to shoot side-by-side with them and see how I stack up.  Just that anticipation of "the chance/challenge" got to me.

See, something as simple as someone standing next to your challenging affects things.  At least you didn't drop the mag after pressing out. Seen this many times at skill builders. Dooohhhh-Maaahhhhhhh
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2021, 12:37:51 PM
On a sort of related note, when I take skill builders, I run my kit. Which just plates wise is about 20lbs for 5 hours. By the end of the day, my lower back is noticeably worn out.  But to be fair, I do deadlift every thrusday, so my back is worn out prior to the SB.

For a guy that deadlifts more than your normal person, this is unexceptionable that 20lbs would do this.  So I posted in my 1911 thread that I might upgrade to lighter plates which would bring be down to about 11lbs.

This thought came up when going mainland and taking a weekend class and my hydration issue.  2nd day of class would suck.

There was a show on the history channel about the 75th. 78% of their injuries are lower back related. So they brought in a powerlifter/trainer to see what he could do.  After watching them train, he implemented deadlifting.  The lower back injuries got reduced from 78% to 30%.  Now I see in basic and other types of PT, they have a deadlift bar being used in PT.  This isn't a real deadlift, but same motion. A deadlift with a regular Olympic bar is much harder.  So the one that Bradley Cooper was using in American sniper is what I'm talking about.  The weight he was doing isn't impressive to a weight lifter. #1 that bar makes it way easier, #2 he's doing more of a rack pull (not touching the ground).  Had articles making him sound like a strongman because of the weight he was doing. 

So what's the point of all this, don't forget physical fitness as well.  As we get older, we are more prone to injuries.  So take it slow and be in some shape.  Cause if that fight ends up hand to hand first, then you will need some fitness level.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: 6716J on October 18, 2021, 12:43:43 PM
On a sort of related note, when I take skill builders, I run my kit. Which just plates wise is about 20lbs for 5 hours. By the end of the day, my lower back is noticeably worn out.  But to be fair, I do deadlift every thrusday, so my back is worn out prior to the SB.

For a guy that deadlifts more than your normal person, this is unexceptionable that 20lbs would do this.  So I posted in my 1911 thread that I might upgrade to lighter plates which would bring be down to about 11lbs.

This thought came up when going mainland and taking a weekend class and my hydration issue.  2nd day of class would suck.

There was a show on the history channel about the 75th. 78% of their injuries are lower back related. So they brought in a powerlifter/trainer to see what he could do.  After watching them train, he implemented deadlifting.  The lower back injuries got reduced from 78% to 30%.  Now I see in basic and other types of PT, they have a deadlift bar being used in PT.  This isn't a real deadlift, but same motion. A deadlift with a regular Olympic bar is much harder.  So the one that Bradley Cooper was using in American sniper is what I'm talking about.  The weight he was doing isn't impressive to a weight lifter. #1 that bar makes it way easier, #2 he's doing more of a rack pull (not touching the ground).  Had articles making him sound like a strongman because of the weight he was doing. 

So what's the point of all this, don't forget physical fitness as well.  As we get older, we are more prone to injuries.  So take it slow and be in some shape.  Cause if that fight ends up hand to hand first, then you will need some fitness level.
In today's world, more and more are doing BJJ and such so it's in your best interest to be in shape, even if you don't jits. Give yourself a fighting chance.


Hex bar

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2021, 12:52:55 PM
In today's world, more and more are doing BJJ and such so it's in your best interest to be in shape, even if you don't jits. Give yourself a fighting chance.


Hex bar

I use this to do shrugs, barbell shrugs rubs the boto. And dumbells don't go heavy enough at my gym.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on October 18, 2021, 12:53:08 PM
See, something as simple as someone standing next to your challenging affects things.  At least you didn't drop the mag after pressing out. Seen this many times at skill builders. Dooohhhh-Maaahhhhhhh
A shooting buddy likes to make his own kydex holsters.  They come out quite well in general.  Particularly useful for folks that have handguns that aren't common.  Anyways, there's a lot of thought and testing that goes into those holsters.  While they may fit in general, they need to function properly, or not cause malfunctions.  One particular holster was giving him troubles.  After the draw, his mag would drop free.  This was in both training and handgun matches.  Buzzer, draw, bang, dead trigger, tap rack, click, etc.  It turned out that there was a little bit of kydex that if you drew straight out, no problem.  But his draw had a slight pressure toward his belt and that depressed the mag release.  I swear he came close to going Office Space on his holster and gun one match. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 25, 2021, 08:59:48 AM
Took a HDF skill builder (SB) this weekend with Mrs. CMO. 

1) I increased my hydration amounts thanks to the info that Flapp mentioned. Every break to reload, I chugged about 20oz water and some Liquid IV and Gatorade.  He mentioned when training in the military, they chugged like 2 quarts water every hour or something.  I noticed I was sweating the entire time and only pissed once.  Compared to last SB, I stopped sweating half way thru.  Felt a lot more less fatigued than last SB also.  And also that night and next day I felt way better than last SB, no migraine either.  So hydration, hydration, hydration.  So for the last exercise, I did way better than the last combo SB one. Like night and day kind.  So I attribute this to less fatigue.

2) I tend to watch others when we do group dry fire and I'm taking a breather.  Or when shooting. This way I can learn from their mistakes.  So I know how to deal with it if it happens to me. Because to duplicate the exact problem may never occur.  But this way I'll be ready. 1 thing that SB's did teach me is to work thru the problem. The exercise doesn't stop because of X reason. Figure it out and continue.  Had 1 guy who really grabs his mag quickly from his belt holder. When he does this, the top round comes forward on occasion.  So when trying to load the mag into the AR, it wouldn't go in due to that top protruding half inch.  So gotta recognize when that happens and use your finger to slide the round back, or load AK style which will force that round back further into the mag.

3) Murphy's law strikes again. We were talking about my sling set up to my butt stock.  And I explained why I have the stock that I have.  It's to hold a CR123 battery for my Romeo5 RDS.  I had a battery die on me a few years ago mid class and had to run irons the rest of the class. Which is a huge handicap.  So after explaining this to the instructors, what happens during our first live fire...my RDS craps out again.  So since I've XP'd this before, I instinctively switched to irons.  And because I had the battery on me, I was able to change it out when my turn for shooting was done. Instead of having to wait and walk back to our bags.  The junk part of the Romeo5 is there is no low battery indicator.  I probably lasted changed it pre covid.  Since the rifle was sitting in the safe for most of 2020.

So other than the above, it was a good SB.  Haven't taken 1 with the wife for a while due to her work schedule.  Oh and got to shoot my first shooting comp type of shooting.  Like when you have a barrier and a line you cannot cross to shoot around said barrier. But have to lean as much as you can.   I've never done that before. This is way diff from a VTAC board.  It looks harder than it is.  Even when shooting from support side for rifle or having to shoot pistol from your support side of your body, while maintaining your normal holding of the pistol.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on October 25, 2021, 09:26:43 AM
Took a HDF skill builder (SB) this weekend with Mrs. CMO. 

1) I increased my hydration amounts thanks to the info that Flapp mentioned. Every break to reload, I chugged about 20oz water and some Liquid IV and Gatorade.  He mentioned when training in the military, they chugged like 2 quarts water every hour or something.  I noticed I was sweating the entire time and only pissed once.  Compared to last SB, I stopped sweating half way thru.  Felt a lot more less fatigued than last SB also.  And also that night and next day I felt way better than last SB, no migraine either.  So hydration, hydration, hydration.  So for the last exercise, I did way better than the last combo SB one. Like night and day kind.  So I attribute this to less fatigue.

2) I tend to watch others when we do group dry fire and I'm taking a breather.  Or when shooting. This way I can learn from their mistakes.  So I know how to deal with it if it happens to me. Because to duplicate the exact problem may never occur.  But this way I'll be ready. 1 thing that SB's did teach me is to work thru the problem. The exercise doesn't stop because of X reason. Figure it out and continue.  Had 1 guy who really grabs his mag quickly from his belt holder. When he does this, the top round comes forward on occasion.  So when trying to load the mag into the AR, it wouldn't go in due to that top protruding half inch.  So gotta recognize when that happens and use your finger to slide the round back, or load AK style which will force that round back further into the mag.

3) Murphy's law strikes again. We were talking about my sling set up to my butt stock.  And I explained why I have the stock that I have.  It's to hold a CR123 battery for my Romeo5 RDS.  I had a battery die on me a few years ago mid class and had to run irons the rest of the class. Which is a huge handicap.  So after explaining this to the instructors, what happens during our first live fire...my RDS craps out again.  So since I've XP'd this before, I instinctively switched to irons.  And because I had the battery on me, I was able to change it out when my turn for shooting was done. Instead of having to wait and walk back to our bags.  The junk part of the Romeo5 is there is no low battery indicator.  I probably lasted changed it pre covid.  Since the rifle was sitting in the safe for most of 2020.

So other than the above, it was a good SB.  Haven't taken 1 with the wife for a while due to her work schedule.  Oh and got to shoot my first shooting comp type of shooting.  Like when you have a barrier and a line you cannot cross to shoot around said barrier. But have to lean as much as you can.   I've never done that before. This is way diff from a VTAC board. It looks harder than it is. Even when shooting from support side for rifle or having to shoot pistol from your support side of your body, while maintaining your normal holding of the pistol.

TWSS
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on October 25, 2021, 10:02:33 AM
Took a HDF skill builder (SB) this weekend with Mrs. CMO. 

1) I increased my hydration amounts thanks to the info that Flapp mentioned. Every break to reload, I chugged about 20oz water and some Liquid IV and Gatorade.  He mentioned when training in the military, they chugged like 2 quarts water every hour or something.  I noticed I was sweating the entire time and only pissed once.  Compared to last SB, I stopped sweating half way thru.  Felt a lot more less fatigued than last SB also.  And also that night and next day I felt way better than last SB, no migraine either.  So hydration, hydration, hydration.  So for the last exercise, I did way better than the last combo SB one. Like night and day kind.  So I attribute this to less fatigue.

2) I tend to watch others when we do group dry fire and I'm taking a breather.  Or when shooting. This way I can learn from their mistakes.  So I know how to deal with it if it happens to me. Because to duplicate the exact problem may never occur.  But this way I'll be ready. 1 thing that SB's did teach me is to work thru the problem. The exercise doesn't stop because of X reason. Figure it out and continue.  Had 1 guy who really grabs his mag quickly from his belt holder. When he does this, the top round comes forward on occasion.  So when trying to load the mag into the AR, it wouldn't go in due to that top protruding half inch.  So gotta recognize when that happens and use your finger to slide the round back, or load AK style which will force that round back further into the mag.

3) Murphy's law strikes again. We were talking about my sling set up to my butt stock.  And I explained why I have the stock that I have.  It's to hold a CR123 battery for my Romeo5 RDS.  I had a battery die on me a few years ago mid class and had to run irons the rest of the class. Which is a huge handicap.  So after explaining this to the instructors, what happens during our first live fire...my RDS craps out again.  So since I've XP'd this before, I instinctively switched to irons.  And because I had the battery on me, I was able to change it out when my turn for shooting was done. Instead of having to wait and walk back to our bags.  The junk part of the Romeo5 is there is no low battery indicator.  I probably lasted changed it pre covid.  Since the rifle was sitting in the safe for most of 2020.

So other than the above, it was a good SB.  Haven't taken 1 with the wife for a while due to her work schedule.  Oh and got to shoot my first shooting comp type of shooting.  Like when you have a barrier and a line you cannot cross to shoot around said barrier. But have to lean as much as you can.   I've never done that before. This is way diff from a VTAC board.  It looks harder than it is.  Even when shooting from support side for rifle or having to shoot pistol from your support side of your body, while maintaining your normal holding of the pistol.
Thanks for sharing.  Always good to get out there and get some training.

1) Cool.  Hydration is something that is easy to take for granted.  Also often times we don't feel the effects until after it's become a "problem".  I've found that I really need to watch that in drier climates.  I was in Cali for vacation a couple of weeks ago.  It was sunny, but relatively mild weather.  We were walking all around every day.  One day, I noticed I was feeling a bit dehydrated and noticed pee getting darker.  Didn't feel that bad a first, but started to get a headache.  It was slight and tanked a bunch of water and eventually felt fine. 

2) Observing others in classes is something that I tend to do as well.  There are things that folks (includes me too) do that they don't realize.  The first time you see yourself on video can be eye opening.  It was very much so for me when I first saw my golf swing on video.  It was awful. . .

3) You've had your batt fail multiple times in classes?  Yikes.  Now that I say that, I better check the batts on some of my stuff. 

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 26, 2021, 01:40:56 PM
Thanks for sharing.  Always good to get out there and get some training.


The first time you see yourself on video can be eye opening.  It was very much so for me when I first saw my golf swing on video.  It was awful. . .


Check out HDF or KM Concepts recent post.  I'm 1 of the guys there.  You're right about watching yourself.  I thought I was reloading much faster. And watching from 3rd person, looks like I could have sped up a little. I did the reloads at a comfortable pace.  Also noticed I could be reaching for my pistol as soon as my right hand lets go of the AR.  But I waited until the rifle was totally out of the way.  Again, didn't feel like it in the moment.  Final change would have been to take the 1st shot from the pistol faster, which is when I'm most accurate. But since I was ahead, I decided to slow down, and missed.  The guy shooting against me is a much better shot.  Like JV vs. Varsity.  But he just had a very bad run.  He smoked me in the next exercise.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on October 26, 2021, 01:56:12 PM
Check out HDF or KM Concepts recent post.  I'm 1 of the guys there.  You're right about watching yourself.  I thought I was reloading much faster. And watching from 3rd person, looks like I could have sped up a little. I did the reloads at a comfortable pace.  Also noticed I could be reaching for my pistol as soon as my right hand lets go of the AR.  But I waited until the rifle was totally out of the way.  Again, didn't feel like it in the moment.  Final change would have been to take the 1st shot from the pistol faster, which is when I'm most accurate. But since I was ahead, I decided to slow down, and missed.  The guy shooting against me is a much better shot.  Like JV vs. Varsity.  But he just had a very bad run.  He smoked me in the next exercise.
I saw.  You didn't see my comments on that post?   ???



Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 29, 2021, 09:20:09 AM
Took a carbine skill builder hosted by HDF this past Saturday.

This time I chugged 1 Liquid IV prior to leaving the house.  And I drank another 2 during the SB and more plain water.  I was pissing during every reloading break. So about 6 times for during the SB. Which I rather do that than feel like crap for a few days after (migraine, exhaustion, etc...).  It wasn't too sunny, combo overcast and some sun.

Had no focus on 1 of the exercises.  Instructions were to reload once during, I didn't focus and did a reload from the start.  So started exercise with empty mag.  This cause a DQ, which sucked because either way, it really wouldn't have affected the total time if I reloaded now or later.  Plus I got all hits, so no penalties. 

My other times for the other exercises weren't the best, but I was focused on getting hits as well as reloading fast and re-engaging.  Where I could tell others were just focused on getting fast reload times, but missing the target lots.  So there is a balancing aspect of being fast and accurate.  I rather be accurate IMO cause every missed shot could be a potential lawsuit.

Still want lighter plates, cause I missed my deadlift day due to Thanksgiving, so the lower back was extra shot due to 1 less day of recovery time.  But right now, the price doesn't justify the once a month usage for weight reduction. DFNDR is still on my top. I would go from 24lbs total (front,rear and side plates) to 13lbs. But at a cost of $1500.  $1K for the front and rear plates, and $500 for sides.  Their black friday and cyber Monday sales weren't that great, about 15% off.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: 6716J on November 29, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
Took a carbine skill builder hosted by HDF this past Saturday.

This time I chugged 1 Liquid IV prior to leaving the house.  And I drank another 2 during the SB and more plain water.  I was pissing during every reloading break. So about 6 times for during the SB. Which I rather do that than feel like crap for a few days after (migraine, exhaustion, etc...).  It wasn't too sunny, combo overcast and some sun.

Had no focus on 1 of the exercises.  Instructions were to reload once during, I didn't focus and did a reload from the start.  So started exercise with empty mag.  This cause a DQ, which sucked because either way, it really wouldn't have affected the total time if I reloaded now or later.  Plus I got all hits, so no penalties. 

My other times for the other exercises weren't the best, but I was focused on getting hits as well as reloading fast and re-engaging.  Where I could tell others were just focused on getting fast reload times, but missing the target lots.  So there is a balancing aspect of being fast and accurate.  I rather be accurate IMO cause every missed shot could be a potential lawsuit.

Still want lighter plates, cause I missed my deadlift day due to Thanksgiving, so the lower back was extra shot due to 1 less day of recovery time.  But right now, the price doesn't justify the once a month usage for weight reduction. DFNDR is still on my top. I would go from 24lbs total (front,rear and side plates) to 13lbs. But at a cost of $1500.  $1K for the front and rear plates, and $500 for sides.  Their black friday and cyber Monday sales weren't that great, about 15% off.

Try the HESCO L210 at $310 shipped to Hawaii

https://sierratac.com/product/hesco-200-series-armor-level-rifle-special-threat-stand-alone-plate-l210/
The Hesco L210 plate is an exceptional value balancing light weight, thinness, cost, and ballistic protection.  The L210 is 5.5 lbs., .59″ thick and value priced.  The L210 ballistic ratings include: 5.56 in M193 and M855/Green Tip, M855A1 Enhanced, 7.62×39 in Lead and Mild Steel Core, and Armor Piercing Incendiary.  Overall, a very nice balance of cost, weight, thickness, and ballistic protection.  $5 dollar shipping available. In stock and ready to ship.

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on November 29, 2021, 11:00:42 AM
Try the HESCO L210 at $310 shipped to Hawaii

https://sierratac.com/product/hesco-200-series-armor-level-rifle-special-threat-stand-alone-plate-l210/
The Hesco L210 plate is an exceptional value balancing light weight, thinness, cost, and ballistic protection.  The L210 is 5.5 lbs., .59″ thick and value priced.  The L210 ballistic ratings include: 5.56 in M193 and M855/Green Tip, M855A1 Enhanced, 7.62×39 in Lead and Mild Steel Core, and Armor Piercing Incendiary.  Overall, a very nice balance of cost, weight, thickness, and ballistic protection.  $5 dollar shipping available. In stock and ready to ship.
T-Rex had (I think still going on now) a sale for HESCO.  Not sure if that comes out better pricing, but another opportunity for CMO to same some $$$ for purple plate carrier. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Rocky on November 29, 2021, 11:34:26 AM
another opportunity for CMO to same save some $$$ for purple plate carrier.
Ain't purple but great for helicopter rides !


(https://i.imgur.com/fDemv2mm.png)
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on November 29, 2021, 12:23:08 PM
Took a carbine skill builder hosted by HDF this past Saturday.

This time I chugged 1 Liquid IV prior to leaving the house.  And I drank another 2 during the SB and more plain water.  I was pissing during every reloading break. So about 6 times for during the SB. Which I rather do that than feel like crap for a few days after (migraine, exhaustion, etc...).  It wasn't too sunny, combo overcast and some sun.

Had no focus on 1 of the exercises.  Instructions were to reload once during, I didn't focus and did a reload from the start.  So started exercise with empty mag.  This cause a DQ, which sucked because either way, it really wouldn't have affected the total time if I reloaded now or later.  Plus I got all hits, so no penalties. 

My other times for the other exercises weren't the best, but I was focused on getting hits as well as reloading fast and re-engaging.  Where I could tell others were just focused on getting fast reload times, but missing the target lots.  So there is a balancing aspect of being fast and accurate.  I rather be accurate IMO cause every missed shot could be a potential lawsuit.

Still want lighter plates, cause I missed my deadlift day due to Thanksgiving, so the lower back was extra shot due to 1 less day of recovery time.  But right now, the price doesn't justify the once a month usage for weight reduction. DFNDR is still on my top. I would go from 24lbs total (front,rear and side plates) to 13lbs. But at a cost of $1500.  $1K for the front and rear plates, and $500 for sides.  Their black friday and cyber Monday sales weren't that great, about 15% off.
The weather seemed pretty nice for shooting in the action bays this past weekend.   :thumbsup:

For the "no focus" moment.  Do you attribute that to not paying attention to instructions?  Just a goof?  What?  Attentiveness to instructions on a competitive level is one thing, but I also do notice stuff like that in terms of overall shooting.  As in where is your mind.  I agree and appreciate with the "get your hits" and accountability for shot placement (for obvious reasons and like you said) and something I tell myself to always be mindful on.  Where manipulations like reloading should be unconscious and not have to focus so much on that as opposed to the task at hand (course of fire).  Or at least a goal for training. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on November 29, 2021, 12:23:41 PM
Ain't purple but great for helicopter rides !

SNIP
Protecting the wrong head. . . or maybe depends on perspective. . .  ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 29, 2021, 12:46:57 PM
The weather seemed pretty nice for shooting in the action bays this past weekend.   :thumbsup:

For the "no focus" moment.  Do you attribute that to not paying attention to instructions?  Just a goof?  What?  Attentiveness to instructions on a competitive level is one thing, but I also do notice stuff like that in terms of overall shooting.  As in where is your mind.  I agree and appreciate with the "get your hits" and accountability for shot placement (for obvious reasons and like you said) and something I tell myself to always be mindful on.  Where manipulations like reloading should be unconscious and not have to focus so much on that as opposed to the task at hand (course of fire).  Or at least a goal for training.

For the NF moment, I thought I was being a smart ass.  I didn't hear the "reload between shot groups 1 and 3".  The exercise was 3 groups of 3 shots in each group. So a total of 9 rds is fired.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on November 29, 2021, 12:51:35 PM
For the NF moment, I thought I was being a smart ass.  I didn't hear the "reload between shot groups 1 and 3".  The exercise was 3 groups of 3 shots in each group. So a total of 9 rds is fired.

"mandatory reload between shots one and nine"
focus
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Bota-CS1 on November 30, 2021, 02:06:51 PM
"mandatory reload between shots one and nine"
focus

Too much or too little Adderall….
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 14, 2022, 08:43:49 AM
Took a HRA pistol skill builder (SB) yesterday.  It was fun, we shot steel 100% of the time. From distances 7 yards  or so.  We did under vehicle simulation shooting heights, shoot from behind cover/concealment, and all were at steel.  Which I really enjoy because I like to hear the ping.  Things I've learned

1) When reloading from behind cover/concealment, don't keep yourself sticking out. Go back behind it and reload there.  Then pop back out and shoot, and if possible, don't pop out from the same spot, keep the bad guy guessing where you will be popping out from.  Also factor in if there is a threat above you, because that may determine how far back from the cover you will be shooting from (depth).

2) I dry fired shooting from my back, but never had the opportunity to do it live.  And when dry firing, it was a straight shot. We did shooting from behind a barrier (cover) on our backs. So when shifting from left side to right side, be aware of your knees/feet. You don't wanna shoot them. Vs. shooting straight, your knees and feet are spaced out to your left and right, so not much worry.

3) Gear placement is fine doing these new things.  So no change needs to be done.

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 16, 2022, 12:43:24 PM
Took a HRA pistol skill builder (SB) yesterday.  It was fun, we shot steel 100% of the time. From distances 7 yards  or so.  We did under vehicle simulation shooting heights, shoot from behind cover/concealment, and all were at steel.  Which I really enjoy because I like to hear the ping.  Things I've learned

1) When reloading from behind cover/concealment, don't keep yourself sticking out. Go back behind it and reload there.  Then pop back out and shoot, and if possible, don't pop out from the same spot, keep the bad guy guessing where you will be popping out from.  Also factor in if there is a threat above you, because that may determine how far back from the cover you will be shooting from (depth).

2) I dry fired shooting from my back, but never had the opportunity to do it live.  And when dry firing, it was a straight shot. We did shooting from behind a barrier (cover) on our backs. So when shifting from left side to right side, be aware of your knees/feet. You don't wanna shoot them. Vs. shooting straight, your knees and feet are spaced out to your left and right, so not much worry.

3) Gear placement is fine doing these new things.  So no change needs to be done.
Cool.  I used to shoot/train with that group often, but haven't in the past many months due to work stuff.  Hopefully I will be able to make it out to the one end Feb, or next one in March.

1) Also be mindful of exposure of limbs, particularly lower body, esp if you don't need to. 
2) Shooting from supine is an interesting situation, but if you think about it, quite realistic.  One way to train the "side to side" you mentioned is to have one of those large plastic barrels.  But yeah, don't shoot your feet, or legs if you have them bent.  :o  Also can be interesting if your belt is setup like mind with some thicker elements on the back, like a med kit.  It adds a different "pivot" point, which to me, is NOT helpful.   ;D
3) Oh, you can certainly buy new gear at any time.   8)
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 16, 2022, 01:24:28 PM

3) Oh, you can certainly buy new gear at any time.   8)

Mrs. CMO is asking about a plate carrier. But her tiddies are 1 of her concerns. RMA makes 1 for women, but IDK the price. I told her since she would only wear it at most once a month, a standard curve shouldn't be an issue.  Women in the military wear them all the time. But they do have that new curved plates for females. IDK if it's distributed to all or just a select unit.  If they made 1 in purple, she would have had it years ago.

She bought a new range belt, KOR brand or something. She got it in Vegas.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: aletheuo137 on February 17, 2022, 08:23:52 AM
How to Shoot Around Corners... sort of

https://rumble.com/vuyhy4-how-to-shoot-around-corners...-sort-of.html

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: RSN172 on February 17, 2022, 03:21:53 PM
No need cover, concealment or protective vest.  Make like Dirty Harry.  Just walk up to the perp and pop um.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 22, 2022, 11:28:42 AM
Did a MPPL Steel match for the 1st time this weekend. Had fun. Mrs CMO cost me more rounds than I brought, so I had to borrow from a friend.

Overall I did average because I was new and didn't push it.  Went at a comfortable pace. Also no warm up, I wanted to start cold on purpose.  Did the production group, as my pistol is not upgraded. IDK if the hood on my holster made a diff or not, prob added 1/4 second or something to each string.

Each stage was min 25 rounds used if you don't miss. I would say on average I used 30-35rds extra per stage.  I do enjoy shooting steel, so I would do it again if it's steel. If it's the normal cardboard, I would pass.

Also 1 person had a squib load and luckily the RO caught it before it went bad. HIFICO has the vid posted.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 22, 2022, 12:35:18 PM
1) Did a MPPL Steel match for the 1st time this weekend. Had fun. Mrs CMO cost me more rounds than I brought, so I had to borrow from a friend.

2) Overall I did average because I was new and didn't push it.  Went at a comfortable pace. Also no warm up, I wanted to start cold on purpose.  Did the production group, as my pistol is not upgraded. IDK if the hood on my holster made a diff or not, prob added 1/4 second or something to each string.

3) Each stage was min 25 rounds used if you don't miss. I would say on average I used 30-35rds extra per stage.  I do enjoy shooting steel, so I would do it again if it's steel. If it's the normal cardboard, I would pass.

Also 1 person had a squib load and luckily the RO caught it before it went bad. HIFICO has the vid posted.
1) Awesome.  Good that you got out and shot a match.  I love shooting steel.  Did they have the Texas star?

2) Warm up for MPPL?  Uh, um. . . mkkay. . . If you could attribute the 0.25 sec per string, dayum.  I shot with a Thumbdrive holster for the first 2-3 matches.  Use what you got. 

3) Why pass just because cardboard?  Not fun for you?  While I enjoy shooting steel, it can give you a false sense of performance. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 22, 2022, 12:53:47 PM
1) Awesome.  Good that you got out and shot a match.  I love shooting steel.  Did they have the Texas star?

2) Warm up for MPPL?  Uh, um. . . mkkay. . . If you could attribute the 0.25 sec per string, dayum.  I shot with a Thumbdrive holster for the first 2-3 matches.  Use what you got. 

3) Why pass just because cardboard?  Not fun for you?  While I enjoy shooting steel, it can give you a false sense of performance.

1) No star, just square and circle plates. I think the star would have kicked my ass and Mrs. CMO's. 1 stage she shot about 70rds. Which is why the 400rds I brought for the 2 of us wasn't enough.

2) I seen people dry firing and stuff and even shooting at the practice area.

3) I'm not the best shot, so I don't have confidence where my rounds go. Like not consistent. Plus my eyes suck, so I doubt I would see if I'm hitting the cardboard. At least with steel, I hear a ping. My ears still good.

But this month we're shooting the most we ever have. usually we shoot once a month. But had the HRA SB, this match, and I'm doing HDF this sat. Mrs. CMo isn't taking it, she has a hair appointment. Which cost about $300-$400 so easily cost is the amount of case of 9mm.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 22, 2022, 01:05:12 PM
1) No star, just square and circle plates. I think the star would have kicked my ass and Mrs. CMO's. 1 stage she shot about 70rds. Which is why the 400rds I brought for the 2 of us wasn't enough.

2) I seen people dry firing and stuff and even shooting at the practice area.

3) I'm not the best shot, so I don't have confidence where my rounds go. Like not consistent. Plus my eyes suck, so I doubt I would see if I'm hitting the cardboard. At least with steel, I hear a ping. My ears still good.

But this month we're shooting the most we ever have. usually we shoot once a month. But had the HRA SB, this match, and I'm doing HDF this sat. Mrs. CMo isn't taking it, she has a hair appointment. Which cost about $300-$400 so easily cost is the amount of case of 9mm.
1) The star is good fun!  When I started out, I made sure I had an extra mag and usually made sure I reloaded before.  It wasn't uncommon for the rack to spin even with decent shooters.  70 Rounds in a 25 steel stage?  Might as well throw rocks!  ;D

2) Ahh, dry firing and practice draw not bad.  I've seen many folks function testing or checking zero ahead of the match. 

3) You don't have confidence where your rounds go?  Well, paper will tell you.  Perhaps you should invest in some static range time.  Those skill builders, competitions, etc can make you lose focus on basic marksmanship as well as build bad habits. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on February 22, 2022, 04:06:43 PM
1) No star, just square and circle plates. I think the star would have kicked my ass and Mrs. CMO's. 1 stage she shot about 70rds. Which is why the 400rds I brought for the 2 of us wasn't enough.

2) I seen people dry firing and stuff and even shooting at the practice area.

3) I'm not the best shot, so I don't have confidence where my rounds go. Like not consistent. Plus my eyes suck, so I doubt I would see if I'm hitting the cardboard. At least with steel, I hear a ping. My ears still good.

But this month we're shooting the most we ever have. usually we shoot once a month. But had the HRA SB, this match, and I'm doing HDF this sat. Mrs. CMo isn't taking it, she has a hair appointment. Which cost about $300-$400 so easily cost is the amount of case of 9mm.

you concealed carry and you have no confidence where your rounds go???
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 22, 2022, 04:12:06 PM
you concealed carry and you have no confidence where your rounds go???
He wouldn't be shooting at cardboard, duh. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on February 22, 2022, 04:17:52 PM
He wouldn't be shooting at cardboard, duh. . .

cardboard...no shoot back...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 22, 2022, 07:36:23 PM
cardboard...no shoot back...
Bricks on the other hand...

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on February 22, 2022, 08:03:19 PM
Bricks on the other hand...

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

if you can dodge a brick...
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: aletheuo137 on February 23, 2022, 09:21:54 AM
cardboard...no shoot back...
Bruce lee boards don't hit back

https://youtu.be/7t0t-lG0L1k

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on February 23, 2022, 09:24:39 AM
Bruce lee boards don't hit back

SNIP
Different movie. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: aletheuo137 on February 23, 2022, 09:25:20 AM
No. You can't do this.

https://rumble.com/vvf8p0-no.-you-cant-do-this.html

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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: aletheuo137 on February 23, 2022, 09:45:26 AM
Different movie. . .


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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on February 28, 2022, 09:07:27 AM
Took a HDF SB pistol this weekend.

1) First time activating my WML(TLR-1) with 1 hand, either support or strong.  I never thought about doing it until now. So it shows you can learn something every time. For my strong side, I have to use my middle finger because the index is too short to reach the lever.  This causes a slight break in my grip, no biggie, it is what it is. For support side, I can reach the lever with my index because the way it activates is different  from that side.

2) Stayed hydrated and pretty much pissed every other reload. This is because HDF doesn't allow you to stay strapped while going in the bushes.  So I held it in. No migraine that night. So looks like I solved this issue. Thanks Flapp for the suggestion.

3) There was a guy who came who had a RDS who wasn't zero'd. He also installed suppressor sights and didn't zero that either. We figured out how much off he was. At 5 yards, he was shooting low about 8 inches. Left to right was fine. So after figuring that out, he was able to hit an index card at 5 yards. So the lesson is don't show up with untested/zero'd guns to a SB/class. Because if his zero was worst, now he's just wasting ammo.  Also this was his 1st one I think, so we did some gear and mag positioning that helped big time.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 28, 2022, 10:08:26 AM
Took a skill builder this weekend. For the 1st time, I slung my rifle on my back.  And not over the top, but "swim in and swim out" style.  Benefit is if you need to carry someone or something, the rifle is more out of the way.

Confirmed what I already knew, cold start on pistol sucks. At 15 yards, of 12 rds, got 3 hits on a 8x11 size paper. 2nd try got all 12 on paper.  This was after transitioning from rifle to pistol. So it wasn't just a pistol draw.  But my grouping off paper was consistent, which is left slightly off the paper and size of large grapefruit.

I think I will be focusing on more pistol skill  builders because my rifle is fine, even after not shooting it for months. Basically, practice what you suck at.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: TooFewPews on March 28, 2022, 10:22:10 AM
The second time, did you aim high and right on the paper?


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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on March 28, 2022, 10:48:53 AM
Took a skill builder this weekend. For the 1st time, I slung my rifle on my back.  And not over the top, but "swim in and swim out" style.  Benefit is if you need to carry someone or something, the rifle is more out of the way.

Confirmed what I already knew, cold start on pistol sucks. At 15 yards, of 12 rds, got 3 hits on a 8x11 size paper. 2nd try got all 12 on paper.  This was after transitioning from rifle to pistol. So it wasn't just a pistol draw.  But my grouping off paper was consistent, which is left slightly off the paper and size of large grapefruit.

I think I will be focusing on more pistol skill  builders because my rifle is fine, even after not shooting it for months. Basically, practice what you suck at.
More tools for your toolbox.  :thumbsup:

Shooting cold is definitely something to be mindful about.  Can't be like "oh hey attacker, let me dry fire a bit before you do your thing". 

I get what your assessment is getting at.  Pistol shooting always needs more attention, at least for me.  That said, how much until your "rifle is fine" isn't fine. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 28, 2022, 11:58:04 AM
The second time, did you aim high and right on the paper?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I used a Glock instead.  :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 28, 2022, 11:59:55 AM
More tools for your toolbox.  :thumbsup:

 That said, how much until your "rifle is fine" isn't fine. . .

Maybe gotta test it out. 2020 covid, no skill builders and 1st rifle class back and I was fine. That's maybe 8 months? Good thing about not being expert mode is you don't lose as much skills compared to a average shooter.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 11, 2022, 08:30:28 AM
Took an HRA carbine skill builder this weekend.

Big SB, about 40 students. All ranges of proficiency, from total noob to more advanced.  Had fun, but I soon expect them to limit the class sizes because it was very big.  But at least they were safe. 

Caution RANT:

I got there late because there was the half marathon in Kakaako and I left at 6:15am and didn't actually get out of the area until 7:45. So I was driving around looking for an exit for 1.5 hours.  The area was blocked off from Chinatown to Fort DeRussy. And from the ocean to Kapiolani. When I went online after driving for a while, there was no mention it was a TOTAL BLOCKADE.  I asked a few cops who were stationed at intersections and they had no clue if there is an exit or total blockade. THey just knew their intersection. So poor planning by the city/event host.

Then on a busy road such as Ward Ave, they had cars piling up, which gives the impression that HPD will stop the runners so they can let some cars pass Kapiolani, but nope. Instead the cops at that intersection chose to face their backs toward the cars lined up and not even acknowledge them.  A simple wave off or something to let people know that you wont be able to pass would have been nice. But I guess that's expecting too much from HPD.

So what it came down to is that if you work or trying to leave the area, it's not possible. I feel bad for tourist trying to get to the airport.

What I did learn from the SB was that the velcro on my plate carrier is wearing out.  Which means I will need a new one. The options I'm looking at is going with the same Spartan Armor Systems Sentinal, but buying a First Spear Tube Retro Cummberbun or going with the Spartan Armor System Leonidas which already has it, but cost about  $60 more. But it's more "updated".  I like my set up as it is, so we shall see. Not a huge rush, so I may wait until the next federal holiday for a sale.

The Leonidas looks more bulkier which is why I'm leaning toward getting the same one I got now.  I'm still at the beginning stages, so I haven't look up other brands of carriers yet. But I do know I want a QD cummberbun because this way the velcro doesn't wear out.  Because my carrier is still cherry, all except the velcro. I spray it with Lysol after every range day so it doesn't smell either. And it gets usage about once a month. The carrier is about 5 years old.

*Edit

Funny I had 1 guy ask if I was an EMT and another guy as if I was HPD. We had no conversations about either that would give the impression that I'm either of the 2.

Also for the first time, I got to load my AR mag to the max, well 1 below max anyways.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 11, 2022, 09:16:41 AM
CMO - Good stuff.  It was my first range day with carbines in many months, and I felt it.  Been spending a lot of my range time with bolt guns, as well as been distracted by work and other activities on the set weekends.  Always good to be on the range with like minded folks.  Also very interesting what electronic ear pro picks up.

That was a large group.  Biggest I've seen in a while.  I think that's great and an indicator of folks dedicating the time for training, as well as newer folks coming to the realization of importance of 2a and firearms in self defense, particularly in current state of affairs.  Hope to make it out to future range days on a regular basis. 

What brand PC do you have?  Your velcro is wearing out already? 

Check out SKD Tactical for sales every so often.  They have lots that are really high quality.  The latest one I've tried is Spiritus Systems.  Basic, expandable, and not super expensive (or at least they weren't a few years ago).

Some of my highlights from yesterday:
1) Have folks video your shooting or do dry fire in a mirror.  When adding in new skills or other elements, folks tend to forget some basics or not realize that they are doing so.  That was very true for me when I was changing stance and head position a while back.  I would catch myself reverting to old habits when say pushing into new skills. 

2) Be open to other ways to do things.  At least try.  Yesterday, most folks seemed very open to feedback and help.  However, that's not the norm.  But hey, if your tool box is already full, rock on, as long as you're safe. 

3) With ammo situation the way it is, there's definitely a damper on range days.  That said, I think good to focus things on purpose driven training, as opposed to ballistic masturbation. 

4) Range days are an excellent time to iron out your gear setup.  What may work in dry fire or in your living room, may not quite work out when doing live fire exercises.  I've noticed this over the years, and noticed it yesterday.  While it is good to note how others setup their gear, be sure to factor in context of use and try for yourself and see if it works.  Then there's gear selection, where not all gear is built/manufactured equally. 

Many folks haven't been shooting as often as we had in the past and it showed.  There were a few drills that had an aspect of competition involved, which is always good.  See how stuff like adrenaline and stress can affect your performance.  There were two friends that were pushing each other, then when it came time for them to do an exercise head-to-head, one was like "whoa, my heart is racing".  I think that's great training! 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 11, 2022, 09:34:22 AM

What brand PC do you have?  Your velcro is wearing out already? 



I got the Spartan Armor Sentinel. It came with the AR500 Lvl 3 armor special as a kit. Front/rear and side AR500 plates on black friday special back in 2017 for like $200 and free shipping. I have since upgraded the front and rear to Lvl 4 Spartan Armor Systems ceramics in 2019. The sides are still the steel, but I plan on upgraded those to DFNDR light weight sides. Saves me about total 3 lbs, but will cost $500. So still debating to do that or the front and rear with DFNDR, but cost $1K starting and go from 17lbs to 10lbs. But again, price is the issue since I wear it at most once a month. If I wore it weekly, then I would have done it years ago.

Yeah, the front velcro and the velcro on the cummberbun are wearing. No as sticky as they used to be due to donning and doffing over the past 5 years. Material itself has no holes or wear and all the stitching is still perfect and doesn't smell. If it wasn't for the velcro, she should have another 5 years easily in her. Which is why I wanna go the QD tube route. And I was just gonna buy the cummberbun, until I tested the velcro on the carrier itself and even that's wearing. So failing on 2 areas.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 11, 2022, 10:13:09 AM
I got the Spartan Armor Sentinel. It came with the AR500 Lvl 3 armor special as a kit. Front/rear and side AR500 plates on black friday special back in 2017 for like $200 and free shipping. I have since upgraded the front and rear to Lvl 4 Spartan Armor Systems ceramics in 2019. The sides are still the steel, but I plan on upgraded those to DFNDR light weight sides. Saves me about total 3 lbs, but will cost $500. So still debating to do that or the front and rear with DFNDR, but cost $1K starting and go from 17lbs to 10lbs. But again, price is the issue since I wear it at most once a month. If I wore it weekly, then I would have done it years ago.

Yeah, the front velcro and the velcro on the cummberbun are wearing. No as sticky as they used to be due to donning and doffing over the past 5 years. Material itself has no holes or wear and all the stitching is still perfect and doesn't smell. If it wasn't for the velcro, she should have another 5 years easily in her. Which is why I wanna go the QD tube route. And I was just gonna buy the cummberbun, until I tested the velcro on the carrier itself and even that's wearing. So failing on 2 areas.
I don't have experience with Spartan Armor's PC.  That said, I recommend you go with companies where that's what they do specifically, vice say as a support product for their "main dish".  Maybe not fair, but my thoughts. 

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 12, 2022, 09:49:15 AM
I don't have experience with Spartan Armor's PC.  That said, I recommend you go with companies where that's what they do specifically, vice say as a support product for their "main dish".  Maybe not fair, but my thoughts.

I get what you're saying. If I were an instructor or wore this daily, then that would be a huge thought to consider.  But I'm a once a month warrior and tacticool is also a factor for me. My tacticool taste that is.  I'm pretty sure that I'm gonna go with the Leonidas from Spartan Armor. The diff between that and getting their Sentinal + FIrst Spear tube cummberbun is that the cummberbun for the Leonidas instead of being all velcro in the back, is attached via bungee cord.  This would allow for the carrier to give slightly, like 1 inch when bending or going prone. Instead of being strapped in super tight with zero flexible movement. My current cummberbun is the all velcro in the back, so zero flex and I do feel a slight compression when at different firing positions.  So I wanna try the bungee flex and see how that feels. And if I don't like it, as in it gives too much, then I can always use paracord or something that doesn't give. Each system as it's pro's and con's and for a once a month usage, I think I'll be OK.

I checked out DFNDR, CRY, HRT, Blue Force Gear and wasn't really a fan of the tacticoolness. Plus many didn't have the tube QD system.  HRT does, but on the front of their carriers is open velcro. I like how Spartan Armor has a flap to protect the velcro.  And HRT has no molle rings, which would mean I need new mag carriers (the velcro attaching kind).

I looked up the DFNDR plates and each plate is just under 5lbs (3++) but at a cost of $600 per plate. So front and back would be $1200. Their sides are still $500 each, so if I do want to go lighter, I'll forgo the sides. Spartan Armors new Lvl4 ceramics are 6.1lbs each and way cheaper. DFNDR does have 3lbs front and rear plates, but lvl 3+ which won't stop greens.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 12, 2022, 12:06:15 PM
I get what you're saying. If I were an instructor or wore this daily, then that would be a huge thought to consider.  But I'm a once a month warrior and tacticool is also a factor for me. My tacticool taste that is.  I'm pretty sure that I'm gonna go with the Leonidas from Spartan Armor. The diff between that and getting their Sentinal + FIrst Spear tube cummberbun is that the cummberbun for the Leonidas instead of being all velcro in the back, is attached via bungee cord.  This would allow for the carrier to give slightly, like 1 inch when bending or going prone. Instead of being strapped in super tight with zero flexible movement. My current cummberbun is the all velcro in the back, so zero flex and I do feel a slight compression when at different firing positions.  So I wanna try the bungee flex and see how that feels. And if I don't like it, as in it gives too much, then I can always use paracord or something that doesn't give. Each system as it's pro's and con's and for a once a month usage, I think I'll be OK.

I checked out DFNDR, CRY, HRT, Blue Force Gear and wasn't really a fan of the tacticoolness. Plus many didn't have the tube QD system.  HRT does, but on the front of their carriers is open velcro. I like how Spartan Armor has a flap to protect the velcro.  And HRT has no molle rings, which would mean I need new mag carriers (the velcro attaching kind).

I looked up the DFNDR plates and each plate is just under 5lbs (3++) but at a cost of $600 per plate. So front and back would be $1200. Their sides are still $500 each, so if I do want to go lighter, I'll forgo the sides. Spartan Armors new Lvl4 ceramics are 6.1lbs each and way cheaper. DFNDR does have 3lbs front and rear plates, but lvl 3+ which won't stop greens.
So your PC failed, under light use. . . :hmm: 

Regarding the flexibility and/or movement of the PC, just be sure that sucker doesn't give you some "chin music".  But if it does, please report back.  Like those who get "scoped". . .  :rofl:



Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 12, 2022, 01:27:13 PM
So your PC failed, under light use. . . :hmm: 



Velcro is the weak point. From the YT vids that I've watched for other brands of carriers, velcro will wear eventually. Which is 1 benefit of the QD type. No repeat tearing of the velcro.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 12, 2022, 01:39:30 PM
Velcro is the weak point. From the YT vids that I've watched for other brands of carriers, velcro will wear eventually. Which is 1 benefit of the QD type. No repeat tearing of the velcro.
What?  No way. . .   

My PCs aren't heavy use, but at least one has lasted for quite a while and velcro going strong.  I also know many folks (personally and through work) that use their PCs on the daily, and they haven't failed that quickly, in terms of on/off.  They aren't meant to last forever, but seems like yours are either failing early, or you're doing something to gum/clog the velcro.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 12, 2022, 01:58:28 PM
What?  No way. . .   

My PCs aren't heavy use, but at least one has lasted for quite a while and velcro going strong.  I also know many folks (personally and through work) that use their PCs on the daily, and they haven't failed that quickly, in terms of on/off.  They aren't meant to last forever, but seems like yours are either failing early, or you're doing something to gum/clog the velcro.

I do have cats. I'll look at it when I get home with the flash light. Cause the patch area (top of the chest) velcro is still g2g.  That same patch doesn't stick to the cummberbun area part. Crossing fingers that I don't need a new carrier, but I woudln't mind getting a new tube QD cummberbun ($230).
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 12, 2022, 02:08:04 PM
I do have cats. I'll look at it when I get home with the flash light. Cause the patch area (top of the chest) velcro is still g2g.  That same patch doesn't stick to the cummberbun area part. Crossing fingers that I don't need a new carrier, but I woudln't mind getting a new tube QD cummberbun ($230).

Don't know how long you've had it, but their warranty says they back their products 100%. 

Quote
We stand behind our products 100%! Should an item be returned because it was defective,
mis-represented, not as described, etc. Please notify us immediately if you discover a
manufacturing defect with your item. Spartan Armor Systems will issue a full refund and
provide a return shipping label.

Please allow 5-10 business days from the time the item is received to process a refund.
https://www.spartanarmorsystems.com/billing-shipping-returns-terms-and-conditions/

To me, it's worth contacting them to see if there's something they can do.  It's possible the velcro was low quality, making it a manufacturing/material defect.  During periods of high demand, sometimes they have to use whatever materials they can get, meaning they might not meet the high standards they set.

Worth the time to ask the question.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 12, 2022, 02:09:39 PM
I do have cats. I'll look at it when I get home with the flash light. Cause the patch area (top of the chest) velcro is still g2g.  That same patch doesn't stick to the cummberbun area part. Crossing fingers that I don't need a new carrier, but I woudln't mind getting a new tube QD cummberbun ($230).
Do they sleep on your PC? Haha

Get a section of new/fresh hook side and try that on the loop side.  The loop sides is often what I've seen fail quick(er) on velcro.  Especially bad for cheaper velcro where the loop side is thinner.  Can't do anything about loop side getting thin.  Can refresh the hook side (can get clogged easy). 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 12, 2022, 02:13:04 PM
I've had companies like NorthFace and Patagonia (no longer buy their products though) replace quite old products when stuff I considered "wear items" fail.  Stuff like elastic stretching out.  They've replaced with new products if they couldn't fix/repair. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 12, 2022, 04:23:51 PM
Ill call them tomorrow. Total no focus. Its the Leonidas Legend (v2.0) that im looking at. This was released 4 months ago.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 13, 2022, 09:07:24 AM
They said on the carrier, it's a 1 year warranty.  I didn't want to argue that the website doesn't state time. They will have an Easter sale starting this Friday for 15% off. So I'm gonna order the Leonidas Legend on Friday.

Why:
1) Tacticool
2) QD tubes (should minimize the velcro wear)
3) Has molle for the front (HRT Doesn't and I'm not a fan of their velcro for  attachments (mag carriers) for the front. I may run into the same problem 5 years later.
4) Their cummberbun has the ability for me to insert my side plates.

Haven't decided on the color, I may get the tan one. But my mag carriers are black, so no matchy matchy. Not a fan of multi cam. The green is a close 2nd.  I got till Friday to decide. Wish they had gray.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 13, 2022, 07:23:22 PM
15% off sale at SKD

https://skdtac.com/firstspear-stt-plate-carrier-skd-exclusive/
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 13, 2022, 07:55:58 PM
15% off sale at SKD

https://skdtac.com/firstspear-stt-plate-carrier-skd-exclusive/
I seen that. Im a fan of the kangaroo pouch. I often dont have enough rifle mag carriers (3 on the front) that i put more in the kangaroo for skill builders. Plus i keep sharpies and index cards.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 17, 2022, 09:45:00 AM
FML, i just saw a YT of lighter plates. Currenlty, my total for rear and front plates are about 16.4lbs. Then add in both sides total at 6lbs. Total 22.4lbs. Lvl4

Duritium plates (warrior poet endorsed). Front and rear total would be about 5.4lbs and total sides 1.8lbs. Total 7.2lbs. Lvl3+. Add 1lb for 3+ that can stop green tips.

Im on the fence of giving up lvl4s, but FBI stats from 2020 and prior show no LE encounter was with greens or like ammo nation wide. Even 308 are rare in the past 10 years prior to 2020. 2018 FBI stats, roughly (memory) 33 cops killed by handguns, 8 by rifles, 6 by shotguns, 5 undetermined. And these are the guys who interact daily with people with guns. (I didnt look up current stats)

But the question is what do u need them for? Ive seen a handful of times guys using greens at the range. Accidents do happen, so i would like at least protection from greens. AP 308 not needed, most likely, never seen those at the range. Personal xp, ive been flagged 2x buy guys gf's.

Ive always debated about lighter plates.

Est cost. $1400, but they have a 15 year warranty (expiration). So if u divide by the standard repacement of every 5 years or so, its worth the cost. XP plates are like milk. They can go past the XP date for a little and be fine.



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Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 18, 2022, 09:22:23 AM
FML, I ordered my new plates with the above.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 18, 2022, 09:54:09 AM
FML, i just saw a YT of lighter plates. Currenlty, my total for rear and front plates are about 16.4lbs. Then add in both sides total at 6lbs. Total 22.4lbs. Lvl4

Duritium plates (warrior poet endorsed). Front and rear total would be about 5.4lbs and total sides 1.8lbs. Total 7.2lbs. Lvl3+. Add 1lb for 3+ that can stop green tips.

Im on the fence of giving up lvl4s, but FBI stats from 2020 and prior show no LE encounter was with greens or like ammo nation wide. Even 308 are rare in the past 10 years prior to 2020. 2018 FBI stats, roughly (memory) 33 cops killed by handguns, 8 by rifles, 6 by shotguns, 5 undetermined. And these are the guys who interact daily with people with guns. (I didnt look up current stats)

But the question is what do u need them for? Ive seen a handful of times guys using greens at the range. Accidents do happen, so i would like at least protection from greens. AP 308 not needed, most likely, never seen those at the range. Personal xp, ive been flagged 2x buy guys gf's.

Ive always debated about lighter plates.

Est cost. $1400, but they have a 15 year warranty (expiration). So if u divide by the standard repacement of every 5 years or so, its worth the cost. XP plates are like milk. They can go past the XP date for a little and be fine.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
5.4 lbs total for front and rear is LIGHT!  I wish I was ballah like you and could afford. . .  8)

You're going to keep your "old" plates though, right?  As for what to expect, if someone is shooting M2 AP at me, the $hit really has hit the fan.  Same for even 193/855. 

The "flagged" by range folks is certainly  :o and understandable.  A rifle round strike is certainly a bad day.  That said, I am usually more wary of newer pistol shooters. 

FML, I ordered my new plates with the above.
Awesome!   :geekdanc:

Wait, did you order a set for Mrs. CMO?   

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 18, 2022, 10:06:34 AM
5.4 lbs total for front and rear is LIGHT!  I wish I was ballah like you and could afford. . .  8)

You're going to keep your "old" plates though, right?  As for what to expect, if someone is shooting M2 AP at me, the $hit really has hit the fan.  Same for even 193/855. 

The "flagged" by range folks is certainly  :o and understandable.  A rifle round strike is certainly a bad day.  That said, I am usually more wary of newer pistol shooters. 
Awesome!   :geekdanc:

Wait, did you order a set for Mrs. CMO?

I didn't ask her if she wants them yet. I'm sure if they made a purple plate carrier, she would. But then she would bitch about how I have the light ones and she has the heavier ones. So I would have to order a 2nd set.  I will ask her if she does want them, if not, I plan on selling them to a friend.

I do have the current plate carrier that still works, but is getting worn out (velcro). Which means she wouldn't need to buy one because I don't see her wearing it for range days, just SHTF. That's if the purple one is not invented.

1 huge reason why i'm going lighter is because I got to sample my friends one which is also light weight.  It's like never using First Class on a plane for years, then you XP it once and jacks up Coach forever.  And range days are on the weekends, where my body is all sore from working out the days prior. Especially deadlifts, which is Thursdays and  the lower back is sore until Monday.

The only thing I was on the fence was the greens, but of the 5 guys I've seen using greens in the past 6 years, I know 3 of them.  Then add in that Warrior Poet uses the ones I purchased because he isn't as concerned with greens.

These should be good for 15+ years. And I probably would do periodic Xrays, just to confirm no cracks.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 18, 2022, 10:25:17 AM
I didn't ask her if she wants them yet. I'm sure if they made a purple plate carrier, she would. But then she would bitch about how I have the light ones and she has the heavier ones. So I would have to order a 2nd set.  I will ask her if she does want them, if not, I plan on selling them to a friend.

I do have the current plate carrier that still works, but is getting worn out (velcro). Which means she wouldn't need to buy one because I don't see her wearing it for range days, just SHTF. That's if the purple one is not invented.

1 huge reason why i'm going lighter is because I got to sample my friends one which is also light weight.  It's like never using First Class on a plane for years, then you XP it once and jacks up Coach forever.  And range days are on the weekends, where my body is all sore from working out the days prior. Especially deadlifts, which is Thursdays and  the lower back is sore until Monday.

The only thing I was on the fence was the greens, but of the 5 guys I've seen using greens in the past 6 years, I know 3 of them.  Then add in that Warrior Poet uses the ones I purchased because he isn't as concerned with greens.

These should be good for 15+ years. And I probably would do periodic Xrays, just to confirm no cracks.
You going sell?  I will likely pickup a set of lighter plates as well soon.  I'm planning on shooting the plate set that it replaces.   ;D

I hear you on lighter.  I tried a buddy's that was less than 1/2 mine and it was quite eye opening.  That said, as long as the PC is fit well, I don't notice it after a while.  I noticed at the end of the day when it comes off for sure though. 

You seem to be latching on to WP's feedback lately.  This one and the "improved Glock".  I do enjoy many of his videos.  Everyone has their biases, and I'll leave it at that. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 18, 2022, 10:42:13 AM

You seem to be latching on to WP's feedback lately.  This one and the "improved Glock".  I do enjoy many of his videos.  Everyone has their biases, and I'll leave it at that.

I enjoy his vids.  I do have his warbelt, but to be fair, I was looking at it prior to seeing his endorsement.  And same goes for the Blue Force rifle sling.  I didn't get the plate carrier that he uses (HRT), because of the reasons I posted above, it doesn't fit my needs.  I also like my G-code drop leg RTI even though he uses another brand.

The reason why I like his Shaddow is because it has the RDS that I was also looking at anyways. And to buy as a package is easier for me because attaching a RDS on a pistol might be just above my pay grade. So "G2G" out of the box.

And I do wrap my sling for storage the way he showed how he does it. Wrapped around the buttstock and looped into the pistol grip. But that's cause I'm too pake to buy a strap or something that would attach it to the handguard.

So I could be looked at as a WP whore I guess. The wife also got me a WP shirt.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 18, 2022, 11:00:23 AM
I enjoy his vids.  I do have his warbelt, but to be fair, I was looking at it prior to seeing his endorsement.  And same goes for the Blue Force rifle sling.  I didn't get the plate carrier that he uses (HRT), because of the reasons I posted above, it doesn't fit my needs.  I also like my G-code drop leg RTI even though he uses another brand.

The reason why I like his Shaddow is because it has the RDS that I was also looking at anyways. And to buy as a package is easier for me because attaching a RDS on a pistol might be just above my pay grade. So "G2G" out of the box.

And I do wrap my sling for storage the way he showed how he does it. Wrapped around the buttstock and looped into the pistol grip. But that's cause I'm too pake to buy a strap or something that would attach it to the handguard.

So I could be looked at as a WP whore I guess. The wife also got me a WP shirt.
And there's nothing wrong with that.  I do think that a good consideration is that the person's context and style does "ring true" to you. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 18, 2022, 11:40:03 AM
And there's nothing wrong with that.  I do think that a good consideration is that the person's context and style does "ring true" to you.

I learn from WP, MSP, Thunder Ranch, Knockout Lights.  Haven't learned anything from Garand Thumb or TRex yet, but I do get entertainment from their vids. Garand does have a M45A1 video though.

Due to our limited instructor pool, online is the only option.  As in can't just drive to a class, we have to spend thousands to fly and hotel.  But YT is limited because the pro's don't give away all their secrets for free.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 18, 2022, 06:01:44 PM
Yeah, mrs. Cmo wants the light ones too. Thats if she is to wear them.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on April 18, 2022, 06:05:58 PM
Yeah, mrs. Cmo wants the light ones too. Thats if she is to wear them.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Have seen quite a number of purple PCs :hmm:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 22, 2022, 06:21:49 PM
New carrier came in. Comparing the new and old, i can tell how worn out the old one is.

Side plate holder sucks. I need to order molle clips. The attaching mechanisim it comes with is a strap that i dont have confidence in.

Plates arrive next week.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220423/9fbcfe729cb3ecda90f306d412739dc9.jpg)
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: GlockNewb on April 23, 2022, 11:51:44 AM
James Yeager returned from Ukraine and did a debrief via podcast. At 1:23:06, they begin the actually experience of training civilians, lots of great lessons.

https://youtu.be/5Dvi3srbioE
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 25, 2022, 09:01:21 AM
Did the HDF pistol skill builder with the new carrier (not new plates) and there was a difference.  The last 2 skill builders I've done with my old carrier (black above), I've had blisters on my traps.  THis is probably due to the shoulder area wearing.  This one, no blisters.

I didn't run my side plates (3lbs each) due to the attaching point not sufficient (I ordered malice clips).  So with that 6lbs reductions, I did notice a huge difference, even though I only wear them once a month.  Think of it like the on deck batter using a donut.  Then removing that extra weight and having faster bat speed.  So I was running 16lbs worth of plates.  So I can't wait to drop that to about 7.4lbs for front/rear/sides.

A friend of mine brought up a good point during our dry fire section.  I would just move the slide enough to reset the trigger for the next draw practice. He mentioned that it may create bad muscle memory.  Which makes sense. So instead of doing a short stroke, I would rack the entire slide like how I normally would for a tap/rack type of situation.

We did more moving while shooting and I did OK.  Pretty much gotta catch the irons lining up with the target due to the bounce and caffeine running thru the veins.

Mrs. CMO still has improved greatly from her flinching. Normally at 30 yards, she would be hitting the dirt half way down.  But she hasn't done this in months.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 26, 2022, 09:13:54 PM
Cant wait to run these bad boys at the next skill builder. Already tried them on and daaayyymmmnnnn. So 22lbs will be reduced to 7lbs. My carrier stuffed with mags weights more.

Shot Stop Duritium PA plates lvl3+.

Front 2.7lbs
Rear 2.9lbs
Sides 0.9lbs each(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220427/11b2e106e961bdebcfba9ad390df9f17.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on May 09, 2022, 09:05:44 AM


We did more moving while shooting and I did OK.  Pretty much gotta catch the irons lining up with the target due to the bounce and caffeine running thru the veins.

Mrs. CMO still has improved greatly from her flinching. Normally at 30 yards, she would be hitting the dirt half way down.  But she hasn't done this in months.
The "bounce" between your steps?  Not the irons or RDS coming back to target?  Sometimes you just gotta "strut". . .  ;D

30 yards in the dirt?   ??? Bruh. . . I gotta dig out my Kevlar shin guards from back when I used to play soccer. . .  O0
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 09, 2022, 09:19:27 AM


30 yards in the dirt?   ??? Bruh. . . I gotta dig out my Kevlar shin guards from back when I used to play soccer. . .  O0

Yup, so 15 yards in the dirt for a 30 yard target. Now it's left to right she needs to work on.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on May 09, 2022, 09:41:41 AM
Yup, so 15 yards in the dirt for a 30 yard target. Now it's left to right she needs to work on.
Low and left?  Sounds eerily familiar. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on May 16, 2022, 07:58:38 AM
Shot some pistol this past weekend.  It's been a while since I have shot any pistols since I've been focusing on bolt guns and carbine.  I should be shooting/practicing pistol way more often.

Shot one of my Gucci Glock 19s with RDS.  Shot two mags of GDs to rotate the ammo, and a box of FMJ.  The rust showed for sure, but quickly back in the saddle. 

Only thing of note is that at least one, maybe two, of the Magpul GL9 mags got jammed up.  The follower got stuck way down in the mag and the rounds were loose in the mag.  Strange.  Never seen that before or read about it.  I've shot many thousands of rounds with these Magpul mags and my Gucci Glock by now.  Never had something like that with any my my Glock 17 or 19 OEM mags. 

Get home, did a Google search and apparently seems quite common.  Recommendation is to clean the mag body and spring.  Took apart the mags and while the inside of the mag body was dirty/dusty, what I think is the issue is that the follower spring on a couple of the mags were gunked up or at least had a rough coating on them.  I've shot these mags in a variety of conditions, but not like where they were thrown around in the mud all day.  Well, maybe a couple of those, but figured I did an ok job of cleaning them.  Cleaned the mag body with degreaser and then some Ballistol (recommendation was CLP).  I also cleaned the springs with similar and the springs looked like new again afterwards.  I think maybe what was gunking it up was this cleaner that I would spray on the follower every so often to clean the carbon build up.  I don't think it's needed, but figured good to clean up the follower here and there. 

Will have to keep an eye on those mags in the future.  In the meantime, will likely shoot more with OEM mags. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 16, 2022, 10:14:11 AM
Took an HRA rifle skill builder this weekend.

Wore the new light plates and they're a rock star. Def can feel the difference in reduction of weight (22lbs down to 7lbs).  The biggest ease is the donning and doffing, and taking the plates from the car to point X. And they're thinner than my ceramics.

Something I've never done before is walking backward while shooting for a longer distance.  I like the dragging the front of your feet while walking back, instead of just stepping from rolling toe to heal.  I was in marching band, so toe to heal when walking backward is more ingrained (muscle memory).

Another thing learned from watching others is when doing stuff, even though we all want to be as fast as possible, it's important to still be in control. Don't push it too fast that accidents have a higher % of happening. This is why  I go at a comfortable quick speed. Not as fast as I can possible go.  Like when you gotta take a mean dump and u rush to take the belt and pants off, you often fumble.

We also did a drill where you have to pull a tire tied to a rope (row) and muzzle discipline is important. Some guys left their rifle slung in the front, others moved it to the side. I slung my rifle on my back (swim in and swim out). It wasn't the fastest to do because this placement takes the most time, but I wanted to try it out.  Now is the time to practice skills.

Overall had lots of fun. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 27, 2022, 08:36:30 AM
Took a HDF combo skill builder this weekend.  I did notice that with the 1911, I am much more accurate, but when I flinch, it's way bigger than the VP9.  Like 6 inches low and 2 inches to the left.  But the grouping of my flinch is consistent, like jabone size.  And the flinch grouping is pretty consistent (6 inches low) whether it be at 4 yards or 15.  So this is pretty weird.  And again, had same hole during the course of the SB.

My RDS on my rifle came loose.  I didn't loctite it down, but it has been this way for the pat 6 years and only now it came loose.  So when I got home, I loctited.  Weird thing is I don't have to re-zero.  I know where my dot sits on my irons.  Which means I can line it up with out going to the range.  Because we were at 4 yards, I was still getting hits on target.  And I keep the star key in my butt stock, so after the exercise, I tightened her down and was g2g for the rest of the SB.

I posted this in the First 1911 thread, but I had 1 jam. It was the 3rd bullet of the day. I loaded the mag and had a failure to feed.  This was during a "load to make ready" part.  So not under stress or time. So 653 rounds later, and got my first FMJ jam.  I don't remember when I got my first VP9 jam or P10C jam.  No issues the rest of the SB and this is the first SB running the 1911.

Now I will see how long I can go without cleaning the 1911, just oiling.  I think the longest I've gone without cleaning the VP9 was like 400rds later.  It was bothering me too much to keep going.  But with the 1911 being more humbug to clean, I think I may be able to surpass this.  So right now we're at 100rds.

Had a few guys who liked my lighter plates.  I wonder how many now are gonna upgrade.  I know at least 1 guy who is.  So me letting them feel how light they are is like never flying on first class. Then you try it once and it screws you the rest of your life. Cause now you know what you're missing out on.

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on June 28, 2022, 11:10:05 AM
Took a HDF combo skill builder this weekend.  I did notice that with the 1911, I am much more accurate, but when I flinch, it's way bigger than the VP9.  Like 6 inches low and 2 inches to the left.  But the grouping of my flinch is consistent, like jabone size.  And the flinch grouping is pretty consistent (6 inches low) whether it be at 4 yards or 15.  So this is pretty weird.  And again, had same hole during the course of the SB.

My RDS on my rifle came loose.  I didn't loctite it down, but it has been this way for the pat 6 years and only now it came loose.  So when I got home, I loctited.  Weird thing is I don't have to re-zero.  I know where my dot sits on my irons.  Which means I can line it up with out going to the range.  Because we were at 4 yards, I was still getting hits on target.  And I keep the star key in my butt stock, so after the exercise, I tightened her down and was g2g for the rest of the SB.

I posted this in the First 1911 thread, but I had 1 jam. It was the 3rd bullet of the day. I loaded the mag and had a failure to feed.  This was during a "load to make ready" part.  So not under stress or time. So 653 rounds later, and got my first FMJ jam.  I don't remember when I got my first VP9 jam or P10C jam.  No issues the rest of the SB and this is the first SB running the 1911.

Now I will see how long I can go without cleaning the 1911, just oiling.  I think the longest I've gone without cleaning the VP9 was like 400rds later.  It was bothering me too much to keep going.  But with the 1911 being more humbug to clean, I think I may be able to surpass this.  So right now we're at 100rds.

Had a few guys who liked my lighter plates.  I wonder how many now are gonna upgrade.  I know at least 1 guy who is.  So me letting them feel how light they are is like never flying on first class. Then you try it once and it screws you the rest of your life. Cause now you know what you're missing out on.
For RDS, was it from the optic to the mount?  Or the mount to the gun?  In any case, recommend you confirm zero, at your desired zero distance (25, 50, 100, etc).

For the 1911 malfunction, how dirty was the feed ramp? 

So you're saying the lighter plates changed your life?   ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on June 28, 2022, 11:18:39 AM
For RDS, was it from the optic to the mount?  Or the mount to the gun?  In any case, recommend you confirm zero, at your desired zero distance (25, 50, 100, etc).

For the 1911 malfunction, how dirty was the feed ramp? 

So you're saying the lighter plates changed your life?   ;D

Mount to the gun.

1911 was clean, I cleaned it after my last range trip and this was the 3rd bullet of the day.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 08, 2022, 05:55:56 PM
Yup, muscle memory is a thing. That's why during SB's I don't just do the drill to be the fastest, it's often I do it at what pace I would normally do it.  The last HDF SB it was a combo. We did a square walking drill. Walk left and shoot 1 shot with rifle, then walk backward and shoot 1 shot with pistol, then walk right and 2 shots with rifle, then walk forward and 2 shots with pistol. Then walk left and 3 shots with rifle and so on until time runs out.  I guy was wondering why after my 1 shots, I still held on the target and didn't just speed up my walk pace so I can do the next transition. I explained that I was working on keeping gun on target and the same speed, I wasn't trying to be the fasted to finish.  Due to this, I didn't get the "cone". But I'm sure the guy who did earn the cone would have beaten me anyways.  He is a very good shooter.
Continuing from other thread on CCW guns.

There are many things that I've noticed that become bad habits, or at least potentially for different contexts.  Say competition shooting and defensive/training.  The quick to unload and show clear.  I have seen many super quick to get through a set course of fire and quickly unload and show clear.  Almost as if the act of unloading and showing clear is timed.  Nothing wrong with completing a course of fire and doing what one needs to so (whatever that may be).  Be quick to have gun up/out when needed, but don't need to be quick to put it away. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 11, 2022, 08:36:56 AM
Took a combo HRA skill builder this weekend.  Mrs. CMO's technique has been getting sloppier over the past few months.  She realized it yesterday.  I noticed it a few months ago, but kept silent because when a spouse tries to teach something, it often doesn't get learned as well compared to an outsider teaching/correcting.  Her technique as in the pistol draw form and transition from rifle to pistol.  She had it locked down, but been slipping.  So we are going to do practicing at home.  I think this is due to the fact that she hasn't been taking the HDF SB's which are a smaller in size and more 1 on 1 focus. Her hair appointment are typically the same day as the HDF SB's.

My technique has been fine and a hasn't slipped.

This HRA SB there was more 1 on 1 teaching.  Which is good so the newer guys can learn the proper techniques.  A few guys forget to activate their rifle safety when reloading or transitioning. HDF really stresses this, so it's automatic for me.  Like they will give u 1 warning, then kicked out if you keep forgetting. 

So each groups SB's both have their benefits and are good to take.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 25, 2022, 10:37:50 AM
Took a HDF pistol SB.  Really bad day.

Started off trying to qualify for their CCW SB in Sept.  I did the drill cold because train how you fight and I wanted to see what I can do.  I mean, I know what I can do, cause I've done similar stuff cold before with the VP9. But this one was bad. Out of a 300 score, I scored 70. 1 target was at 25 yards on a 2.4ft by 3.5 ft cardboard.  I had basically unlimited time to shoot 10 rds.  I missed the entire cardboard with 6 of the 10 rds.  The other 4, only 1 was on paper (8x11) and not even in the B8 circle target.  I have hit an index card before cold at 25 no problem and the shots not on the index card were just to the left and high, like 1-2 inches off. Last HRA open shoot, I was at 15 yrds getting all hits in the same 8 inch circle with the VP9. This was about 2 weeks ago.

Then the 15 yard B8 target with 25 seconds or 15 seconds, I sucked major.

After this was the SB that I used the 1911.  At 7 yards, I got 1 of 10 in an 8 inch circle (first shot).  All the missed shots were about 2-3 inches below (9 shots).  This is not my normal, even cold.  Normally I can get all 10 in the circle, which I've done the prior months. Or maybe 1 or 2 dropped shots, but not 1 of 10.  The next 10rd string, all 10 rds were low.  again this is at 7 yards.  By the 3rd string, I got all in the circle.  And the rest of class was fine. Another drill was smaller than index card at 7 yards. 1 shot only. I got it inside the box.

We did seated shooting. Some guys were sitting in a chair like they're ready to draw and shoot. Train how you fight. So I was slouching big time or elbows on the table, like I'm eating  a meal.  I was back to my regular accuracy by then.   My mid drop leg didn't interfere with the chair or table, which I thought it might.

Last we did a drill where if you shoot it perfect, you need 20rds. I was expecting to use 50 due to my sucking earlier.  But to my surprise, I only had to use 10 more. So it took me 30rds, which seemed to be the class average. So as the day went on, I got better.  But it was a total mind fu*k cause I'm never this bad cold.

1 of the instructors is a gym friend so he put it in a way that I can understand.  Even in the gym, I lift heavy, but have bad days. Like the warm up sets feel super heavy.  And I immediate understood what he was telling me.  Train thru it cause now you know how u are on your worst day.  A good instructor can say things in a way that his students will understand.  And everyone learns differently.  So kudo's for this.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on July 25, 2022, 07:22:33 PM
Shot my 38spl revolver to test out a potential CCW qual test recommendation.  Shot 10 rounds at a b27 target at 7 yards.  I got 1 second splits double action in the scoring rings.  Reloading from loose rounds in the pocket took me 15 seconds, with half the rounds dropping on the ground.

Maybe skip the reloading part on the test recommendation.   ;D
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 29, 2022, 08:44:32 AM
With my problem above, I've been dry firing at home. The issue is the mental block. I know there will be no recoil, so my trigger pull is movement free. Even under time to induce a more hurried draw and fire. This has been my problem for a while now.  So the only remedy is to go to the range and shoot.  I'm gonna wait till I pick up my Shield Plus next week and go to the bullseye side.  A friend showed me to put some random empty brass in my mag to see if I flinch.

I've been watching some various YT vids on shooting low or low left and some do mention the mental block of knowing the gun wont go bang when dry firing. Then you have the Tier1 Concealed guys doing the Dickens Drill and getting almost all A zone hits (4 inches by 10 inch rectangle).  Others were near there.  So this is demotivating, but I hve to tell myself that these guys shoot multiple times a week, compared to my 1 or 2 times a month. So I refer back to my weight lifting example.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 29, 2022, 09:01:39 AM
With my problem above, I've been dry firing at home. The issue is the mental block. I know there will be no recoil, so my trigger pull is movement free. Even under time to induce a more hurried draw and fire. This has been my problem for a while now.  So the only remedy is to go to the range and shoot.  I'm gonna wait till I pick up my Shield Plus next week and go to the bullseye side.  A friend showed me to put some random empty brass in my mag to see if I flinch.

I've been watching some various YT vids on shooting low or low left and some do mention the mental block of knowing the gun wont go bang when dry firing. Then you have the Tier1 Concealed guys doing the Dickens Drill and getting almost all A zone hits (4 inches by 10 inch rectangle).  Others were near there.  So this is demotivating, but I hve to tell myself that these guys shoot multiple times a week, compared to my 1 or 2 times a month. So I refer back to my weight lifting example.
"Ball & Dummy"

When I was shooting more often, I did that almost every range session.  Load up 3-4 rounds and mix in a dummy.  Having someone insert one randomly and you're doing stuff like drills can be very telling since youre mind is focused on the course of fire. 

Dry fire with a red dot and refined point of focus can see some movement.  So subtle that you may not see with irons. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on July 29, 2022, 10:55:59 AM
With my problem above, I've been dry firing at home. The issue is the mental block. I know there will be no recoil, so my trigger pull is movement free. Even under time to induce a more hurried draw and fire. This has been my problem for a while now.  So the only remedy is to go to the range and shoot.  I'm gonna wait till I pick up my Shield Plus next week and go to the bullseye side.  A friend showed me to put some random empty brass in my mag to see if I flinch.

I've been watching some various YT vids on shooting low or low left and some do mention the mental block of knowing the gun wont go bang when dry firing. Then you have the Tier1 Concealed guys doing the Dickens Drill and getting almost all A zone hits (4 inches by 10 inch rectangle).  Others were near there.  So this is demotivating, but I hve to tell myself that these guys shoot multiple times a week, compared to my 1 or 2 times a month. So I refer back to my weight lifting example.

Don't necessarily need dummy rounds or brass.  Just chamber a round, remove the magazine.  Live fire one, dry fire one shot, repeat 30 times in a practice session.  Also do it one handed.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 29, 2022, 11:14:44 AM


Dry fire with a red dot and refined point of focus can see some movement.  So subtle that you may not see with irons.

Dont own 1 cause I dont got a coupon for a RMR
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 29, 2022, 11:50:56 AM
Dont own 1 cause I dont got a coupon for a RMR
Check out Brownells. . . (giving you "a clue"). . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: QUIETShooter on July 29, 2022, 12:17:33 PM
Don't necessarily need dummy rounds or brass.  Just chamber a round, remove the magazine.  Live fire one, dry fire one shot, repeat 30 times in a practice session.  Also do it one handed.

I'm going to try this next time I go to the Bulleye range.  Thanks for sharing this tip. :shaka:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 01, 2022, 09:48:24 AM
Switching to keep things out of the other thread.

And a lame duck with pistol. The bad day is still in the back of my mind. Prob go bullseye side when the Shield is picked up.
While it can be a downer, something you can concentrate on improving.  Targets and results don't lie.  It is what it is.  Always good to get back to basics. 

Shooting pistols does take more work than carbines.  However, if you envision using your pistol for SD more than your carbine, worth the effort. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 01, 2022, 10:15:26 AM


Shooting pistols does take more work than carbines.  However, if you envision using your pistol for SD more than your carbine, worth the effort.

I like to be at a certain level and last SB wasn't even close to being it until the middle/end. So more of a confirming what I can do cold.  Which if I suck again, then it wasn't just a bad day.

Put it this way, the pistol is always in arms reach. And more practice at what you suck at right.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 01, 2022, 10:26:49 AM
I like to be at a certain level and last SB wasn't even close to being it until the middle/end. So more of a confirming what I can do cold.  Which if I suck again, then it wasn't just a bad day.

Put it this way, the pistol is always in arms reach. And more practice at what you suck at right.
Where you think you are vs. where the target/performance indicates you are.  Can definitely be humbling, but better that than another time. . .

I enjoy shooting carbine and bolt action a LOT more than pistol.  But I know pistol is where I should be focusing more time on. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 17, 2022, 09:17:05 AM
Shot some RDS pistol.  Slowly getting back into shooting pistol more regularly.  I had been super busy and what time I did have, had been shooting bolt action rifles.  Got back into shooting carbine and pistol more regularly over the last 3-4 months and my neglect of shooting pistol showed.  :(

Hit the range for carbine and pistol this past weekend.  Training with a bunch of like-minded folks, as well as a couple of folks coming out to get better acquainted with their new pistols, which is ALWAYS a great thing!

Some highlights:
1) Pistol draw.  Have been doing a lot more dry fire and a new technique.  Helping me with both grip consistency and picking up the dot a lot faster and consistently.  Being out of practice, speed has suffered in past range days.  New technique plus a lot more dry fire seemed to help quite a bit on speed to first hit and transitions. 

2) Did more work on reloading.  Consistency on grip after reload improved.  Think the new technique helped, as well as overall shooting more recently.  Really happy about progress there. 

3) Natural point of aim.  Had a college buddy come out to the range with a new RDS pistol.  He hasn't shot in a long time and I also had not seen him in a long time.  Anyways, is his first RDS pistol.  So he was asking me how I draw, pick up the dot, etc.  I have gone through different methods, including trusted instructor/friend methods, etc.  Shared my current method and that seemed to help and resonate with my buddy.  Worked on stance, from isoceles to more "fighting stance", which affect natural point of aim.  Slight tweak and that seemed to help with target/dot acquisition.

4) Friendly competition.  Had some friendly competition shooting steel.  Testing draw, transitions, targets of different distances, etc.  Was super fun.  Haven't done that in a long time.  Was also good to push each other and see how folks stepped up to the challenge, or even fumble at times under the "pressure" of competition.  All great stuff. 

Great to get back into shooting pistols more, as well as having new folks join in on the fun.  That there are groups that are welcoming and really for all skill and experience levels. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 22, 2022, 12:04:29 PM
I think my yips are gone. Shot cold in Vegas a suppressed G19 and at 10 yards, grouping was inside golf ball. Also shot a Maxim-9 and was inside golf ball too. Which would translate to maybe orange or grapefruit at 15yrds. Moderate fire speed for both.

Compared this to my qual for HDF CCW SB. 15 yard B8 target, most shots were outside the 8 ring and even some total misses.

Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 29, 2022, 09:32:47 AM
Not a SB, but did the HRA open shoot with MRs. CMO. She got to shoot a Shadow 2 blue and at about 25yrds, got all hits on steel 10/10. Steel was the size of about 12x12. She then went to her CZ P10C and got like 4/10.

Which makes me wonder, I've always heard its the indian, not the arrow. But if someone is more accurate with a better gun, why wouldn't it be the arrow? Or is it a combo of both? Like Jedi can prob shoot a HI-Point better than I can shoot any race gun with puff puff ammo.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on August 29, 2022, 09:49:03 AM
Not a SB, but did the HRA open shoot with MRs. CMO. She got to shoot a Shadow 2 blue and at about 25yrds, got all hits on steel 10/10. Steel was the size of about 12x12. She then went to her CZ P10C and got like 4/10.

Which makes me wonder, I've always heard its the indian, not the arrow. But if someone is more accurate with a better gun, why wouldn't it be the arrow? Or is it a combo of both? Like Jedi can prob shoot a HI-Point better than I can shoot any race gun with puff puff ammo.
So many variables.  It may be one pistol has "more inherent" accuracy than another.  Like a match 1911 vs say a bottom end model a lot of slop.  Both prob still capable of more accuracy than a shooter. . . Then there's personal preference.  How a gun fits in someone's hand, how their trigger finger ends up, etc.  Like if someone with smaller hands were to shoot a 92F.  Then there's also just the mental block thing.  Where folks think an expensive gun is suppose to be more accurate, so they sometimes have more confidence. 

I bet if the order was reversed, with the CZ P10C first, the results would have been different.  The triggers on my CZ SP-01 Shadow Target is very different than Glock, starting with distance to the trigger.  That said, always look for enablers, never disablers. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 10, 2023, 08:49:03 AM
Attended the Modern Samurai Project Path to Performance in Amherst, OH end of May.  The course is a combination 1-day AIWB and 2-Day RDS pistol course.  I had planned this trip over a year ago as the MSP courses sell out quickly.  Overall, it was an awesome experience and will definitely look for other MSP courses in the future.  I have a bunch of notes I took from the course, and still haven't sat down to review them.  Learned so many things, as well as many "aha" moments, along with "wtf" moments during the three days.  Jedi has a lot of content on YT and IG, but there's no substitution for his in-person instruction as well as his awesome staff instructors. 

Some highlights:
1) Ammo situation was a concern going in.  The original plan was for this course to be hosted at a range over an hour away.  I had arranged for ammo through the owner of that range.  About 2-3 months ago, pistol and rifle shooting was shut down at that range due to an injunction from neighbors.  So only trap and skeet.  The range owner gave me the run around and didn't get back to me.  I was willing to meet him to pay for the ammo I had ordered, but no response.  Received email on change of course location 3 weeks ahead of the course.  Ended up working out better as I found bulk 9 mm ammo on sale at a Cabela's maybe 10 mins away from where the course moved to, and at a way better price.  Bonus was that I was forced to visit the Cabela's in Avon, OH.  Awesome location and excellent customer service. 

2) Jedi breaks down what he teaches in an excellent manner, and progression as the course progresses is clear and tested along the way with skills challenges.  The challenges are timed, one at a time, and most include prizes.  More on that later.  Key is to focus on YOUR individual progress and improvement during the course.  There were some excellent shooters at the course, and it was obvious that they train and compete on a consistent basis.  I had planned on shooting a lot in general this year, especially ahead of this course, but those plans were derailed with the range shutdown. 

3) Unlearning old habits is WAY harder than developing new habits.  I had gone through significant transition in stance and body position for pistol shooting maybe 3-4 years ago with courses with SSG.  For MSP, the change was the grip and presentation.  I had watched his videos and had been putting time dry and live fire, but it wasn't "Jedi's kung fu".  He mentioned that he wants you to take what he teaches and if it works, keep it and discard what doesn't work.  Where he is also clear on his definition on defining and metrics on what works.  Problems often arise when you mix his kung fu, with your kung fu.  I definitely experienced that over the course of the 3 days. 

4) Highs and lows.  I shot pretty well day 1.  That was all AIWB, but with a lot on Jedi's grip, dot acquisition, etc.  Main thing was the grip.  Jedi and the AI adjusted my grip slightly and noted my firing hand thumb occasionally causing issues.  Almost everyone in the course encountered this to a certain extent, even the seasoned shooters and a few folks that had taken the course before.  I left day 1 feeling pretty good overall and ready to tackle the black belt standards.  Day 2 started well, but experienced some issues as we got into the focused sessions on refining accuracy.  Long story short was my old grip started creeping back in.  Jedi and the AI noted it here and there and I would adjust and get back on track, but two of the "three voices" that Jedi mentions were there.  I was disgusted with how I shot in day 2.  We ended earlier than scheduled, so I hit up a local range to work out some things.  Noted the grip and ironed some things out.  Day 3 started with lead up to the last of the performance challenges, which was a Bill drill at 7 yards.  I shot well in the lead up and ended up winning the challenge.  It was the toughest of the black belt courses of fire, which meant the prize was the best of the 5 challenges.  I won my choice of the MSP pro series holster or a milled slide from C&H.  I was super shocked when I received the Jedi chalice from one of the best shooters in the class, and was closest to meeting the black belt standards.  I shot in the first third of the group, so I thought no way I keep the chalice, but my time and clean run ended up being best.  It wasn't below the black belt standard time, but balance of speed and accuracy. 

5) Take what works for you, and discard the rest.  However, base your evaluations on metrics like timed speed and accuracy.  Not what you “feel” works best.  Be honest with your self-evaluation, both good and bad.  There were definitely highs and lows for me during the course.  Highs coming when I could clear my mind (“no mind”) and executed what was taught, and lows coming when I would get ahead of myself or old bad habits mixed in.  The lows mostly happened when the timing or courses of fire got more intense/involved.  Some help from the keen eyes of instructors and others in the class certainly helped along the way.  I appreciate instructors that have “their way”, and while they want you to work their methods, they understand that everyone’s different and they find ways to make individuals better, no matter if it’s not exactly “their way”.  Adding tools to the toolbox. 

6) I took two newer pistols to this course.  I had thought about taking a couple of older/tested pistols, but the pistols I took were what I am moving forward with.  I had acquired them well ahead of the course and had planned to shoot them a lot more prior to the class, but the KHSC shutdown and “other factors” put a damper on those plans.  I had maybe 500 rounds through one and maybe 200-300 on the other prior to the class.  No problems with function, but there were a number of segments focused on accuracy, including finer points of trigger manipulation.  It was good with the pistols that I had, but I think better to have done those sessions with pistols that I’ve had more time with. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 10, 2023, 09:01:58 AM
1 thing I've always wondered about classes is the lunch situation.  How was this one set up?

Mrs. CMO took an all womens class in CO and they had about 300 attendees. So a bunch of lunchwagons was set up. We thought about taking PFC Training classes in Vegas, and the food thing was always on my mind.

With our range shut down, how was your skills according to jedi?  Like "good enough", considering little to no live fire?  Or was it obvious to him that you haven't live fired in a while?  I ask what his opinion is cause I know what your expectations of yourself is.

Is Jedi's personality in person the same as in his videos?  I've talked to some other people for other various industries and what you see on video or social media is often different from real life.  Example: Mrs. CMO met Jay Cutler (bodybuilder, not NFL) and in his vids at the time (early 2000's), he came off as very cocky. But in real life, he was a nice guy. She watched him interact with various fans at a autograph session. Same with Bill Romanowski (NFL).
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: zippz on July 10, 2023, 09:40:14 AM
1 thing I've always wondered about classes is the lunch situation.  How was this one set up?

Most of my Frontsight lunches were cold cut sandwiches I made and cup of noodles.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 10, 2023, 09:43:51 AM
Most of my Frontsight lunches were cold cut sandwiches I made and cup of noodles.

Hot water there, or u made the noodles prior to the class starting?
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 10, 2023, 09:46:21 AM
1) 1 thing I've always wondered about classes is the lunch situation.  How was this one set up?

Mrs. CMO took an all womens class in CO and they had about 300 attendees. So a bunch of lunchwagons was set up. We thought about taking PFC Training classes in Vegas, and the food thing was always on my mind.

2) With our range shut down, how was your skills according to jedi?  Like "good enough", considering little to no live fire?  Or was it obvious to him that you haven't live fired in a while?  I ask what his opinion is cause I know what your expectations of yourself is.

3) Is Jedi's personality in person the same as in his videos?  I've talked to some other people for other various industries and what you see on video or social media is often different from real life.  Example: Mrs. CMO met Jay Cutler (bodybuilder, not NFL) and in his vids at the time (early 2000's), he came off as very cocky. But in real life, he was a nice guy. She watched him interact with various fans at a autograph session. Same with Bill Romanowski (NFL).
1) You're on your own for lunch.  That's typical for the courses that I've taken, which typically in the 20ish student range.  I've never been to a course like that where lunch was provided or nearby.  They typically give you enough time to go "off range" for lunch.  I always bring lunch to the range.  Don't want the hassle of rushing to get lunch.  Plus good time to eat and chat with fellow students.  In some courses, the instructors stick around and chat as well.  I want to cruise and chill during the breaks.  Other than that, you should take snacks if you're that worried.  I usually have a bunch of snacks, but for this one, I didn't really eat other than the breaks. 

2) They aren't really watching the individual students that closely, nor are they judging you.  Or at least they typically aren't obvious about it.  There was a range of folks in terms of skill, prior experience, frequency of training, etc.  It was obvious who had been training/shooting regularly.  There was a group that were all shooting buddies, having trained and shot matches together often.  It was great to see them pushing each other, and others in the class.  I got to be good friends with a few of them over the 3 days of the class.  I even "won" the chalice from one of them, and still rib him about it on social media. 

Beyond that, Jedi has standards.  National, class, and black belt.  I'd have to check the card, but I think I met the class standard for the 3x2 and was maybe 0.1 from the black belt.  For the bill drill, I was within the BB standard time, but had 1 out (fail).  After that, I knew I was out for the BB patch.  I think I made the class standard for the 1 shot, and I messed up on the 25 yard one.  I didn't really have expectations going in.  After the first day, I thought I would have decent chance at 2 of the 4 standards, so I think was "about right". 

3) Personality wise, he is about what you get from what I've seen on YT.  I think he's pretty cool, but like anything, depends on the individual.  Like anyone, they definitely gravitate to folks that have similar interests or other connections.  He would joke with me because of a few of those "links".  He would often use a BJJ black belt that was in the class for shared experiences and examples as Jedi is really in to BJJ as well, including how he relates to body mechanics for shooting.  He also had a couple "challenging students" that became his projects and could tell they "held a special place in his heart".  Overall, I think he's a super cool guy, but I can see if folks find him abrasive or an ass.  He's SUPER conscious of safety, so if you aren't safe, you're going to know.  He definitely let a few folks know when something close to unsafe happened. 
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 10, 2023, 09:46:56 AM
Hot water there, or u made the noodles prior to the class starting?
Are you going to be there to train?  Or to eat?
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 10, 2023, 09:51:05 AM
CMO - For this class, the range was out in the boonies, but was still maybe 10-15 mins from "rest stop" areas along the main highway.  I would say most of the classes I have taken were similar.  Where fast food was available within maybe 10 mins from the range.  I typically buy a sandwich, chips, snacks, etc the night before or on the way to the range.  This class, I bought a cheap collapsible cooler from Target and packed my lunch with ice and water.  Past courses, I bought a cheap styrofoam cooler and did similar.  I would say maybe half of the guys brought lunch and half went out to buy.  The instructors went off site all three days. 

I have been to ranges where they have basic stuff, like maybe a small kitchen to warm up stuff or a fridge.  But overall, I don't count on that.  My focus is on the class. . .
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 10, 2023, 10:02:38 AM
  He would joke with me because of a few of those "links". 

Rhymes with "link".  Also with "plant dyes".  :rofl:
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on July 13, 2023, 09:11:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rACIkH1JqJo
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: drck1000 on July 14, 2023, 06:51:39 PM
SNIP
That’s the class I took. They have a few different, plus collaborations. Covered all in that video, with slightly different course of fire for the lateral movement.

Interesting to see the various pistols and optic combos, especially for California. I was considering a class there, but I was warned of issues with acquiring ammo and pistol restrictions.
Title: Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
Post by: macsak on July 14, 2023, 07:30:42 PM
plus you have to consider the lunch situation...

That’s the class I took. They have a few different, plus collaborations. Covered all in that video, with slightly different course of fire for the lateral movement.

Interesting to see the various pistols and optic combos, especially for California. I was considering a class there, but I was warned of issues with acquiring ammo and pistol restrictions.