Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences (Read 23621 times)

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #160 on: August 22, 2022, 04:31:47 PM »
I knew we had a rds thread. I searched in tools. No focus.

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Focus more on getting a RDS pistol and training.  Less on comparing how you shoot to fruits and balls. . .  :rofl:

But seriously, depending on when the EPS full size comes back in stock. I will likely have at least one RMR-06 available. 

I pick up my 43x with milled slide today.  Already have the EPS Carry in hand, so ready to go there. 

changemyoil66

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #161 on: September 07, 2022, 12:55:15 PM »
***MODS, PLEASE MOVE THIS TO THE TOOLS SUB FORUM. Thanks.

So I'm watching more and more RDs vids. But the issue is that most of them are like 3-5 years old. Which IDK how much of their info still holds true all these years later.  Like the RMR  has been around for that long, with no huge updates so the "Should I RDS my pistol" vids are all very old.

The comparison vids are newer since new stuff does come out.  Most of the zeroing vids are quite old. But 1 stuck out which is why I'm posting about the time here. Sage Dynamics had a OG vid and then another one to amend it some time later, but this 2nd vid is still 2 years old.  It's about zeroing. He mentions zero at 25 from bench, but confirm with no bench. As the zero can change.  Then you have the newer vids mention zeroing at 10yrds is OK. Which makes me wonder was 25 the go to for RDS zero 5 years ago, but now that more info and learning is done, 10 is fine.  And like Jedi mentions the diff from a 10yrd zero at 25rds is 0.71 inches.  "If that matters, then you're living life too hard".

Some things that have held true from 5 year old vids to more recent ones are:

1) The gun will be more accurate that you are (you wont come close to accuracy to what the gun is designed to do)
2) Use the irons as a starting point to zero
3) Don't chase the dot (when zeroing) Maybe the last 3 years of vids, I didn't see any 5 year old vids mention this.

None of this includes the topic of evolution of RDS or tactics. Info overload at this point for this post. But regarding evolution, the RMR is still king all these years later.  So looks like Trijicon got it right the first time.

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #162 on: September 07, 2022, 04:56:16 PM »
***MODS, PLEASE MOVE THIS TO THE TOOLS SUB FORUM. Thanks.

So I'm watching more and more RDs vids. But the issue is that most of them are like 3-5 years old. Which IDK how much of their info still holds true all these years later.  Like the RMR  has been around for that long, with no huge updates so the "Should I RDS my pistol" vids are all very old.

The comparison vids are newer since new stuff does come out.  Most of the zeroing vids are quite old. But 1 stuck out which is why I'm posting about the time here. Sage Dynamics had a OG vid and then another one to amend it some time later, but this 2nd vid is still 2 years old.  It's about zeroing. He mentions zero at 25 from bench, but confirm with no bench. As the zero can change.  Then you have the newer vids mention zeroing at 10yrds is OK. Which makes me wonder was 25 the go to for RDS zero 5 years ago, but now that more info and learning is done, 10 is fine.  And like Jedi mentions the diff from a 10yrd zero at 25rds is 0.71 inches.  "If that matters, then you're living life too hard".

Some things that have held true from 5 year old vids to more recent ones are:

1) The gun will be more accurate that you are (you wont come close to accuracy to what the gun is designed to do)
2) Use the irons as a starting point to zero
3) Don't chase the dot (when zeroing) Maybe the last 3 years of vids, I didn't see any 5 year old vids mention this.

None of this includes the topic of evolution of RDS or tactics. Info overload at this point for this post. But regarding evolution, the RMR is still king all these years later.  So looks like Trijicon got it right the first time.
Why do you feel there is an issue with videos that are 3-5 years old?  There are a lot more recent videos, many by folks who have new(er)/(ish) channels, but does that make the information better?  Also note that many have gone to Patreon due to YT's practices and anti-2a policies.  Sage Dynamics has a Patreon channel. 

You're over thinking the zeroing thing, and I think missing the point of why Sage Dynamics revisited.  Not quite swooooshhh level, but maybe swsh. . . Similar to rifle red dot zero, decide for yourself based on your specific context, then learn the POI and any variation based on distances. 

One pro of Trijicon RMR has been durability, at least for me.  The foot print discussion is interesting, but also interesting is how many other companies decided to go with the same footprint for optics that followed.  I think Holosun has great products and most importantly they are seeming always progressing based on consumer input.  Maybe they won't get .mil contracts until some supply chain issues change, but as consumers we benefit from their continuing product evolution.  And I am a fan of the RMR and have them on multiple pistols. 

changemyoil66

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #163 on: September 07, 2022, 06:35:16 PM »
Why do you feel there is an issue with videos that are 3-5 years old?  There are a lot more recent videos, many by folks who have new(er)/(ish) channels, but does that make the information better?  Also note that many have gone to Patreon due to YT's practices and anti-2a policies.  Sage Dynamics has a Patreon channel. 

You're over thinking the zeroing thing, and I think missing the point of why Sage Dynamics revisited.  Not quite swooooshhh level, but maybe swsh. . . Similar to rifle red dot zero, decide for yourself based on your specific context, then learn the POI and any variation based on distances. 

One pro of Trijicon RMR has been durability, at least for me.  The foot print discussion is interesting, but also interesting is how many other companies decided to go with the same footprint for optics that followed.  I think Holosun has great products and most importantly they are seeming always progressing based on consumer input.  Maybe they won't get .mil contracts until some supply chain issues change, but as consumers we benefit from their continuing product evolution.  And I am a fan of the RMR and have them on multiple pistols.
Im still learning, its all french to me

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drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #164 on: September 08, 2022, 07:19:28 AM »
Im still learning, its all french to me

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Regarding zero, I have done a number of different ways.  In the past, was zero at 25 yards, because that's what KHSC has targets at, then confirm at "in your face" to further than 25 yards.  Then I tried starting zero at 10 yards and found that shooting at 15+ noted some magnification in windage that didn't see at 10 yards.  So if you're going to zero at 10, verify windage at further distance.

Similar with dot MOA.  Lots of videos on pros/cons of larger/smaller.  Many similar to S/D where their preference for zero and dot size changed over the years, or where they decided to revisit occasionally.  Once I have things the way I like, I tend to stop researching.  But like with the closed emitters, sometimes things catch my attention.  Sometimes when least expected. 

changemyoil66

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #165 on: September 08, 2022, 08:50:17 AM »
Like my AR optic SIG Romero5, where the dot sits, is where my POI is (excluding hold over distances). So I can move my head left, right, or in any manner and the dot will stay on where I'm holding it (assume no other movements of the rifle).

Will pistol RDS work the same? What I'm getting at is the dot may be on target, but the irons are not (for pistol). Will the bullet pretty much go where the dot sits regardless of the irons?

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #166 on: September 08, 2022, 09:26:14 AM »
Like my AR optic SIG Romero5, where the dot sits, is where my POI is (excluding hold over distances). So I can move my head left, right, or in any manner and the dot will stay on where I'm holding it (assume no other movements of the rifle).

Will pistol RDS work the same? What I'm getting at is the dot may be on target, but the irons are not (for pistol). Will the bullet pretty much go where the dot sits regardless of the irons?
Spanish knock-off?

Parallax?  Yes, it works same/similar.  Test for yourself on acceptable sight alignment/sight picture.  Try this next time you have access to shoot at say 3-15 yards.  Start with irons.  Put front sight far left, far right, top, and bottom alignment in the rear sight.  See where impacts are in your selected target size (say 6" circle).  Then try with RDS.  With RDS, at least for me and RMR, the shots stacked at at least 7 yards.  I don't recall what they were at 7+. 

It's not that the dot is on target and the irons are not.  It's your head is out of alignment with the bore. . .

changemyoil66

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #167 on: September 12, 2022, 09:57:49 AM »
Helped a friend zero his RDS this weekend at 10yrds. I was hesitant to do this freehand due to me thinking my marksmanship isn't like the YT guys. Which means too much human error and I would just be chasing zero.  But looks like at 10, I'm gudd enuff.

Shot a few more RDS and I can def see the advantages. Now to RDS my SD/range gun is the next question....Be on the look out for a future thread possibly.

I know I don't want to RDs the 1911 as I want to keep it like how MEU/Recon used it. I dont' want to RDS the VP9 as I dont want to add a 6ths holster. So maybe a new gun will be in the futurre that's optics ready.

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #168 on: September 12, 2022, 10:40:02 AM »
Helped a friend zero his RDS this weekend at 10yrds. I was hesitant to do this freehand due to me thinking my marksmanship isn't like the YT guys. Which means too much human error and I would just be chasing zero.  But looks like at 10, I'm gudd enuff.

Shot a few more RDS and I can def see the advantages. Now to RDS my SD/range gun is the next question....Be on the look out for a future thread possibly.

I know I don't want to RDs the 1911 as I want to keep it like how MEU/Recon used it. I dont' want to RDS the VP9 as I dont want to add a 6ths holster. So maybe a new gun will be in the futurre that's optics ready.
Starting a thread of your experiences has a number of benefits.  Similar to your 1911 thread, you can go back over time and see how things have progress, and maybe changed or evolved.  Also serves as a revisit to experiences after the fact and the process of getting things "on paper" helps, at least helps me. 

I personally would also keep your 1911 as is.  I don't know about milling options for VP9s, but lots more shops doing them nowadays, where pricing and turn-around is pretty good.  VP9 and P10C optic ready guns did pique my interest, but don't think I will go that route now that i'm into Glock slim-body pistols and the P320.  Good to have plenty of choices. 

Speaking of holsters, I am currently getting rid of a LOT of Glock 17 holsters that don't accommodate optics.  Luckily have many friends with Glock 17, 19, 22, etc.  Don't let a $30-100 accessory limit your capability and growth.