Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences (Read 23620 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2019, 09:40:36 AM »
How did you zero your red dot?  The way my red dot sits on my handgun, the dot is on the front sight.

I do a mechanical zero using a bore-sighting laser.  Then go to the range for final zero.

If the red dot co-witnesses with the pistol sights, and those sights are zeroed, just focus on a point using the sights and adjust the red dot to overlay that same point.
Truth, when not sought after, rarely comes to light.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I need some new conspiracy theories. All my old ones turned out to be true.

Hamburger Helper only works if the hamburger really wants to be helped.

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2019, 10:56:11 AM »
How did you zero your red dot?  The way my red dot sits on my handgun, the dot is on the front sight.
Dot is zeroed to POA/POI at 25 yards (what’s available). I just zero’ed how one would nornally zero sights. Get it close and then shoot on paper and adjust. Same as Flapp.

I actually had to zero twice since I had to send the slide back to MFR. Initial go around, I just zeroed the dot because the rear sight was stuck. Luckily it was close upon initial installation. Second go around, I had already confirmed the irons, so I moved the dot to match POA for irons and confirmed on paper.

changemyoil66

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2019, 11:23:11 AM »
Dot is zeroed to POA/POI at 25 yards (what’s available). I just zero’ed how one would nornally zero sights. Get it close and then shoot on paper and adjust. Same as Flapp.

I actually had to zero twice since I had to send the slide back to MFR. Initial go around, I just zeroed the dot because the rear sight was stuck. Luckily it was close upon initial installation. Second go around, I had already confirmed the irons, so I moved the dot to match POA for irons and confirmed on paper.

I hate having to re-zero things.  This affects what I buy/add on sometimes.

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2019, 11:27:22 AM »
I hate having to re-zero things.  This affects what I buy/add on sometimes.
I hear ya. Sometimes it’s unavoidable. For the RMR, gotta take it off the slide to replace the battery. So I hope this battery lasts for a while.

But how does that affect what you buy or add?

changemyoil66

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2019, 12:32:25 PM »
I hear ya. Sometimes it’s unavoidable. For the RMR, gotta take it off the slide to replace the battery. So I hope this battery lasts for a while.

But how does that affect what you buy or add?

It affects me because I have to make a special trip to the range to zero a rifle.  And i'm the kind of guy that has OCD so if I add a sight, handguard, barrel, etc...leaving something that doesn't shoot straight in the safe for a while bothers me.  Or even function test stuff.  when my wife was building her AR, she got an ELF trigger.  Took it to the range, didn't go bang even though I heard the click dry firing.  Called Elf from my car and they trouble shooted me.  Still didn't go bang.  So I had to mail it back to them and they mailed me the newer model for free.  Had to drive again to the range and it did go bang.

But to be fair, since I got my 22, I've been going to the range more often, so it wouldn't be to bad. 

I know a guys who buy stuff and wait a very long time before they fire it.  So I ask, how you know it works?  But I guess it doesn't bother them as much.

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2019, 12:46:52 PM »
It affects me because I have to make a special trip to the range to zero a rifle.  And i'm the kind of guy that has OCD so if I add a sight, handguard, barrel, etc...leaving something that doesn't shoot straight in the safe for a while bothers me.  Or even function test stuff.  when my wife was building her AR, she got an ELF trigger.  Took it to the range, didn't go bang even though I heard the click dry firing.  Called Elf from my car and they trouble shooted me.  Still didn't go bang.  So I had to mail it back to them and they mailed me the newer model for free.  Had to drive again to the range and it did go bang.

But to be fair, since I got my 22, I've been going to the range more often, so it wouldn't be to bad. 

I know a guys who buy stuff and wait a very long time before they fire it.  So I ask, how you know it works?  But I guess it doesn't bother them as much.
Ahh. Trust but verify. Or in this specific case, verify in order to trust. Got it.

I’m similar. I want to test things out and iron out kinks. I have backups and many times backups to backups, so that helps. I also have friends who either wait a long time to try or change something just before a class or competition. When things come up, it can ruin a day.

jase90

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2019, 04:38:06 PM »
What I do is zero my groupings windage to the iron sight as perfect as I am able to to the middle of my front sight blade. Then I slave my red dots windage to the exact center of the front sight blade with equal height equal light and make very minute adjustments from there if needed (wide front sight blade is pretty challenging to group perfectly to the center of the blade, the red dots job is to refine that aiming plane to a smaller surface).

For elevation I choose 25 yards and adjust to that distance. And the pictures below is what I end up with for a 25 yards zero.

As you can see windage wise, my dot is ever so slightly to the right on the front blade with equal height for equal light for final adjustments. I'm not even going to try and adjust the irons to meet with the dot. I'll probably over shoot a crap ton even with a sight pusher.

All_rice

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2019, 10:06:21 PM »
Dot is zeroed to POA/POI at 25 yards (what’s available). I just zero’ed how one would nornally zero sights. Get it close and then shoot on paper and adjust. Same as Flapp.

I actually had to zero twice since I had to send the slide back to MFR. Initial go around, I just zeroed the dot because the rear sight was stuck. Luckily it was close upon initial installation. Second go around, I had already confirmed the irons, so I moved the dot to match POA for irons and confirmed on paper.

The musa store has red dot zero targets that you can print out also
Land of the free, because of the Brave!

dogman

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2019, 10:50:17 PM »
I've been on the fence about picking up a Glock 34 MOS thats been sitting at a LGS, but now with the VP9 long slide and optics ready coming soon I will wait. The reason I couldn't pull the trigger on the Glock is I like my HK more than my Glock. >:D  ;) ??? ::) :crazy: :shake: Most of my handgun fun is 7 to 15 yards and been looking at RMR's. So, as long as you are sharing experiences . . . 3.25 or 6.5 MOA dot?

Drakiir84

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2019, 07:18:32 AM »
I've been on the fence about picking up a Glock 34 MOS thats been sitting at a LGS, but now with the VP9 long slide and optics ready coming soon I will wait. The reason I couldn't pull the trigger on the Glock is I like my HK more than my Glock. >:D  ;) ??? ::) :crazy: :shake: Most of my handgun fun is 7 to 15 yards and been looking at RMR's. So, as long as you are sharing experiences . . . 3.25 or 6.5 MOA dot?
The smaller the better imo.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2019, 10:39:03 AM »
I've been on the fence about picking up a Glock 34 MOS thats been sitting at a LGS, but now with the VP9 long slide and optics ready coming soon I will wait. The reason I couldn't pull the trigger on the Glock is I like my HK more than my Glock. >:D  ;) ??? ::) :crazy: :shake: Most of my handgun fun is 7 to 15 yards and been looking at RMR's. So, as long as you are sharing experiences . . . 3.25 or 6.5 MOA dot?
I have the 3.25 model and it’s seems easy to pick up in sunlight and also able to dial down for more precision when zeroing. You can try mine next shoot or range day.

The smaller the better imo.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Is that what she said?  :P

Wait, never mind. I have the smaller model.  :(

 :shake:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2019, 10:47:18 AM »
I've been on the fence about picking up a Glock 34 MOS thats been sitting at a LGS, but now with the VP9 long slide and optics ready coming soon I will wait. The reason I couldn't pull the trigger on the Glock is I like my HK more than my Glock. >:D  ;) ??? ::) :crazy: :shake: Most of my handgun fun is 7 to 15 yards and been looking at RMR's. So, as long as you are sharing experiences . . . 3.25 or 6.5 MOA dot?

I go with the larger dot for SD/HD.  If you can easily perform a "cranio-ocular" shot at stand-off distances (7-15 yds), then there's no need for a more precise (smaller) dot.

Dot acquisition is #1 objective. If you can't find the dot in 1/2 a second, the SIZE REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.   :thumbsup:
Truth, when not sought after, rarely comes to light.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I need some new conspiracy theories. All my old ones turned out to be true.

Hamburger Helper only works if the hamburger really wants to be helped.

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2019, 11:29:42 AM »
The musa store has red dot zero targets that you can print out also
Thanks. I just use regular shoot-n-see targets that I normally use at the bullseye range.

Just reread your original question. I zero with the dot centered in the window. It does generally coincide with the front sight when that is aligned (equal height and equal light), but I zero both independently. Not sure if that’s the “proper” way, but what I did.

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2019, 11:33:57 AM »
What I do is zero my groupings windage to the iron sight as perfect as I am able to to the middle of my front sight blade. Then I slave my red dots windage to the exact center of the front sight blade with equal height equal light and make very minute adjustments from there if needed (wide front sight blade is pretty challenging to group perfectly to the center of the blade, the red dots job is to refine that aiming plane to a smaller surface).

For elevation I choose 25 yards and adjust to that distance. And the pictures below is what I end up with for a 25 yards zero.

As you can see windage wise, my dot is ever so slightly to the right on the front blade with equal height for equal light for final adjustments. I'm not even going to try and adjust the irons to meet with the dot. I'll probably over shoot a crap ton even with a sight pusher.
Besides shooting groups for zero, do you normally shoot with that sight picture? Meaning with the dot sort of lollipopping on the front sight?

Last time I shot, I think my dot was ever so slightly off center from my front sight. I zeroed each separately, and on separate days (didn’t have sight tool with me when I zeroed the dot). While I noticed the offset, I assumed it was because I am able to get a more precise POA with the dot than the irons.

jase90

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2019, 02:55:59 PM »
Besides shooting groups for zero, do you normally shoot with that sight picture? Meaning with the dot sort of lollipopping on the front sight?

Last time I shot, I think my dot was ever so slightly off center from my front sight. I zeroed each separately, and on separate days (didn’t have sight tool with me when I zeroed the dot). While I noticed the offset, I assumed it was because I am able to get a more precise POA with the dot than the irons.

Where the dot is in that picture is the where my bullets impact at 25 yards, so yes that lollipop picture is the picture I use. Although, my front and rear sight are completely out of focus with shooting a red dot because it allows me to just concentrate on the target. I've shot with the dot on each corner of the window at 50 meters at KH Silouhette and was still hitting steel without the dot centered in the window.

When I shoot on my coworkers ranch at 7 to 15 yards my bullets will impact maybe about 2" lower on paper when covering a bullseye with the red dot. Makes sense because when I had standard height sights on that gun and no red dot, I would impact almost 4" high when attempting to cut the bullseye in half with the front sight at 25 yards.

dogman

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2019, 09:47:43 PM »
The smaller the better imo.
Red dot right?


I have the 3.25 model and it’s seems easy to pick up in sunlight and also able to dial down for more precision when zeroing. You can try mine next shoot or range day.
Did you try the 6.5 before you decided on the 3.25? Yes I would like to try yours on the next occasion.


I go with the larger dot for SD/HD.  If you can easily perform a "cranio-ocular" shot at stand-off distances (7-15 yds), then there's no need for a more precise (smaller) dot.

Dot acquisition is #1 objective. If you can't find the dot in 1/2 a second, the SIZE REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.   :thumbsup:
I was leaning towards the larger dot and "Dot acquisition is #1 objective" was my thought also.  I get bored pretty quickly with target shooting except maybe some unfriendly ;D competition, but then I prefer a revolver.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2019, 10:13:49 PM »
Red dot right?

Did you try the 6.5 before you decided on the 3.25? Yes I would like to try yours on the next occasion.

I was leaning towards the larger dot and "Dot acquisition is #1 objective" was my thought also.  I get bored pretty quickly with target shooting except maybe some unfriendly ;D competition, but then I prefer a revolver.

I think the real problem is when the dot becomes blurry. If you wear reading glasses and use a red dot, that's very likely to occur.

That's more apt to happen if not wearing corrective lenses using a rifle where the scope is closer to your eye rather than using a pistol at arm's length.
Truth, when not sought after, rarely comes to light.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I need some new conspiracy theories. All my old ones turned out to be true.

Hamburger Helper only works if the hamburger really wants to be helped.

dogman

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2019, 11:04:10 PM »
I think the real problem is when the dot becomes blurry. If you wear reading glasses and use a red dot, that's very likely to occur.

That's more apt to happen if not wearing corrective lenses using a rifle where the scope is closer to your eye rather than using a pistol at arm's length.
I know what you mean. There was a time I would use reading glasses to focus on my pistol front sight (target was a blurr) and I shot better than with non-corrective safety glasses. But when I transitioned to my rifle which has an Aimpoint PRO, the dot would be a blurr and accuracy would suffer. My optometrist made me safety glasses with very light overall magnification which transition to higher magnification on the lower part of the lens. They work great, my rifle dot is clear and I can focus on my pistol front sight. The target is also clear. When shooting rifle off the bench, the view through my scope is clear and I can read the turrets. I think I just lucked out with the combination or my optometrist, who does not shoot, got skills.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2019, 11:43:07 PM »
I know what you mean. There was a time I would use reading glasses to focus on my pistol front sight (target was a blurr) and I shot better than with non-corrective safety glasses. But when I transitioned to my rifle which has an Aimpoint PRO, the dot would be a blurr and accuracy would suffer. My optometrist made me safety glasses with very light overall magnification which transition to higher magnification on the lower part of the lens. They work great, my rifle dot is clear and I can focus on my pistol front sight. The target is also clear. When shooting rifle off the bench, the view through my scope is clear and I can read the turrets. I think I just lucked out with the combination or my optometrist, who does not shoot, got skills.

I found these on Amazon. I've been doing some woodworking, and the constant putting on/taking off reading glasses to measure, set the tools, and mark material, then switching to safety glasses for actually operating the power tools, was getting old. I ordered the bifocals in my reading glasses strength, as well as the full goggles to fit on top of my reading glasses.

Both are extremely well made and do what I need.  The goggles work great for sanding and any other task requiring extra eye protection.


For $11-$14, these safety glasses are hard to beat:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000646VFI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


$10 Goggles:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A12J3GI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Truth, when not sought after, rarely comes to light.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I need some new conspiracy theories. All my old ones turned out to be true.

Hamburger Helper only works if the hamburger really wants to be helped.

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2019, 12:32:02 PM »
Where the dot is in that picture is the where my bullets impact at 25 yards, so yes that lollipop picture is the picture I use. Although, my front and rear sight are completely out of focus with shooting a red dot because it allows me to just concentrate on the target. I've shot with the dot on each corner of the window at 50 meters at KH Silouhette and was still hitting steel without the dot centered in the window.

When I shoot on my coworkers ranch at 7 to 15 yards my bullets will impact maybe about 2" lower on paper when covering a bullseye with the red dot. Makes sense because when I had standard height sights on that gun and no red dot, I would impact almost 4" high when attempting to cut the bullseye in half with the front sight at 25 yards.
“Where the dot is in that picture is the where my bullets impact at 25 yards, so yes that lollipop picture is the picture I use.” I was more refering to that your sight picture was the lollipop dot in the front sight blade. I was always told/taught to try to keep the dot centered in the view window, be it for handgun or long gun. Yeah, under stress, you may not have time to do so, but one should train for that sight picture for reps and muscle memory. I just never considered the way you described.

I had assumed that quality dots all have parallax correction. So if you zeroed properly, the POI will coincide with your POA. Yeah, you will be closer if your sight picture when you break the shot is what it is when your zeroed. When shooting with the dot, I also don’t really see the irons. When zeroing, I’m shooting at a slow and deliberate pace and I might notice the irons, but not when shooting at less deliberate pace.

I’ll have a chance to shoot with the dot in a training environment soon, so will see.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 12:51:45 PM by drck1000 »