10/4/22 CCW "rules" meeting- please submit testimony and show up if you can... (Read 736 times)

macsak

Hawaii Firearms Coalition
12h  ·
ITS TIME TO SHOW UP:
On October 4th the police chief (Honolulu) is having a hearing to set his rules on our right to bear arms.
Some of the proposed rules are illogical, others are impractical and a vast majority are unconstitutional.
Honolulu (and Hawaii in general) are still treating the second amendment as a bastardized right.
These rules make it clear that they still feel that they get to decided who gets to bear arms and how. These rules have nothing to do with public safety and serve only to infringe, delay and dissuade on the rights of its people.
Below is a copy of the notice regarding the hearing and a copy a link to the proposed rules.
We will be releasing more details and are thoughts as we get close to the date. But this is the time to start asking for the day off work and be ready to show up.
=NOTICE STARTS HERE=
HONOLULU POLICE DEPARTMENT PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE-
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN, pursuant to Hawai‘i Revised Statutes chapter 91, of a public hearing to be held by the Honolulu Police Department (“HPD”) for the purpose of adopting Rules governing Firearm Permits and Licenses.
DATE/TIME OF PUBLIC HEARING
Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2022
Time: 10:00 a.m.
Place: First floor Conference Room A, HPD Alapai Headquarters, 801 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, HI 96813
TOPICS OF PROPOSED RULES
The purpose of this public hearing is to amend Chapter 15 of the Rules of the Chief of Police, HPD, entitled “Firearms Permits and Licenses.” The proposal is to repeal existing §§15-1 through 15-11 and promulgate new rules §§15-12 through 15-28. The proposed rules are intended to:
Set forth a clear process for applicants to obtain permits to acquire firearms and to register firearms;
Set forth a clear process and criteria (including testing, training, and background check requirements) for detectives, investigators, and guards to obtain licenses to carry firearms while on-duty, along with requirements for detective and guard agencies with armed employees;
Following the Supreme Court’s ruling in N.Y. State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n, Inc. v. Bruen, set forth a clear process and criteria (including testing, training, and background check requirements) for applicants to obtain licenses to carry firearms outside the home, whether concealed or unconcealed;
Provide substantive guidelines for carrying a firearm outside the home, including the manner in which a firearm shall be carried, a requirement to carry one’s license on one’s person, and a requirement to carry no more than one firearm at a time;
Set forth a clear process and criteria for certification of instructors to teach firearm safety and administer the required testing for applicants for licenses to carry;
Set forth a clear process for renewing licenses;
Provide the circumstances under which licenses to carry and instructor certifications will be revoked and the appeal process for denials and revocations.
https://www.honolulupd.org/.../HPD-Rules-of-the-Chief-of...

aieahound

Will they allow everyone their two minutes or do we have to sign up ?

Written Testimony is useless ( just my opinion). Do it any way guys if you can’t show up.
I’m hoping I can show up.

QUIETShooter

Will they allow everyone their two minutes or do we have to sign up ?

Written Testimony is useless ( just my opinion). Do it any way guys if you can’t show up.
I’m hoping I can show up.

I still plan to submit a written testimony.  For what-ever's it's worth.  I was planning to attend but was concerned as to how long the hearing will be because I pick up my granddaughter on Tuesdays.

Come to find out she's out of school that week and it took my wife to remind me that our family has a Disney trip that week, LOL!

So I still won't be able to attend.  I really wanted to see the BS artists in action.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Rocky

Your Chief Rules  link sez 
The page you are looking for no longer exists. Perhaps you can return back to the homepage and see if you can find what you are looking for. Or, you can try finding it by using the search form below.
That was quick. ::)
Try this one
https://www.honolulupd.org/police-services/firearms/proposed-amendment-to-chapter-15-of-the-rules-of-the-chief-of-police/

https://www.honolulupd.org/.../HPD-Rules-of-the-Chief-of...


Re: 10/4/22 CCW "rules" meeting- please submit testimony and show up if you can...
« Reply #5 on: Today at 11:30:27 AM »

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Quote from: QUIETShooter on September 06, 2022, 10:44:36 PM

    I still plan to submit a written testimony.  For what-ever's it's worth.  I was planning to attend but was concerned as to how long the hearing will be because I pick up my granddaughter on Tuesdays.

    Come to find out she's out of school that week and it took my wife to remind me that our family has a Disney trip that week, LOL!

    So I still won't be able to attend.  I really wanted to see the BS artists in action.

Honolulu Hearing or Disneyland ?
Same-o Same-o   :rofl:
Cept you might come back "woke and transgendered" from Disneyland  :shake:
Have fun
Modify message
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 11:35:20 AM by Rocky »
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Rocky

.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 11:35:39 AM by Rocky »
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

aieahound

“ Persons wishing to submit written testimony in advance may do so by emailing their testimony to HPDLTC@honolulu.gov (preferred) or by mail to HPD Records & Identification Division, Attn: Public Testimony, 801 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, HI 96813. All written testimony submitted before the conclusion of the public hearing shall be considered. Interested persons are encouraged to submit their testimony in advance of the public hearing, as this will give HPD more time to review and consider the testimony.

Advance registration is not necessary to attend or submit testimony at the hearing. ”

https://www.honolulupd.org/police-services/firearms/proposed-amendment-to-chapter-15-of-the-rules-of-the-chief-of-police/
(The one Rock posted below.)

I might have to submit written testimony but will try my best to attend.

QUIETShooter


Quote from: QUIETShooter on September 06, 2022, 10:44:36 PM

    I still plan to submit a written testimony.  For what-ever's it's worth.  I was planning to attend but was concerned as to how long the hearing will be because I pick up my granddaughter on Tuesdays.

    Come to find out she's out of school that week and it took my wife to remind me that our family has a Disney trip that week, LOL!

    So I still won't be able to attend.  I really wanted to see the BS artists in action.

Honolulu Hearing or Disneyland ?
Same-o Same-o   :rofl:
Cept you might come back "woke and transgendered" from Disneyland  :shake:
Have fun
Modify message

I'm preparing myself for it, LOL!!  I guess when I get bored I'll walk up to the weirdest "thing" I see there and ask them "What do YOU identify as?"  ???

Whatever the answer is I'll shoot back "I never would have known....."

On second thought maybe I should just shut up if I expect to come home in one piece. :rofl:
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

QUIETShooter

I'm currently working on my testimony for the Oct.4th Hearing.

Can anybody answer my question on this:

What does that symbol mean that is in front of every subchapter of Chapter 15?  It looks like an "S" above an "S".  When referring to certain subchapters, can I just say for example, Subchapter 15-7 or do I have to include that weird symbol that is front of it?

Just want to make sure I dot my I's and cross my T's so there's no misunderstanding when I submit testimony.

Legal jargon, and all the accompanying symbols that goes with it never ceases to perplex me.  Kinda reminds me of magicians who use smoke and mirrors or snake oil salesmen that speak flowery words to mask the stench of doo-doo spewing from their mouths.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

changemyoil66

I'm currently working on my testimony for the Oct.4th Hearing.

Can anybody answer my question on this:

What does that symbol mean that is in front of every subchapter of Chapter 15?  It looks like an "S" above an "S".  When referring to certain subchapters, can I just say for example, Subchapter 15-7 or do I have to include that weird symbol that is front of it?

Just want to make sure I dot my I's and cross my T's so there's no misunderstanding when I submit testimony.

Legal jargon, and all the accompanying symbols that goes with it never ceases to perplex me.  Kinda reminds me of magicians who use smoke and mirrors or snake oil salesmen that speak flowery words to mask the stench of doo-doo spewing from their mouths.

Since this is a public hearing, I would say don't worry about the SS. As long as what section you're referring to is able to be referenced. So "section 15-7" should be fine since this is not a court room.

Flapp_Jackson

I'm currently working on my testimony for the Oct.4th Hearing.

Can anybody answer my question on this:

What does that symbol mean that is in front of every subchapter of Chapter 15?  It looks like an "S" above an "S".  When referring to certain subchapters, can I just say for example, Subchapter 15-7 or do I have to include that weird symbol that is front of it?

Just want to make sure I dot my I's and cross my T's so there's no misunderstanding when I submit testimony.

Legal jargon, and all the accompanying symbols that goes with it never ceases to perplex me.  Kinda reminds me of magicians who use smoke and mirrors or snake oil salesmen that speak flowery words to mask the stench of doo-doo spewing from their mouths.

It's literally used to delineate numbered sections of a document. 

In law, the top level category is called a "title" or "statute."  Each major portion within those are called "sections," are sequentially numbered, and use the "Section" symbol --  § -- as part of the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_sign
Truth, when not sought after, rarely comes to light.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I need some new conspiracy theories. All my old ones turned out to be true.

Hamburger Helper only works if the hamburger really wants to be helped.

QUIETShooter

Since this is a public hearing, I would say don't worry about the SS. As long as what section you're referring to is able to be referenced. So "section 15-7" should be fine since this is not a court room.

Thank you. :shaka:

It's literally used to delineate numbered sections of a document. 

In law, the top level category is called a "title" or "statute."  Each major portion within those are called "sections," are sequentially numbered, and use the "Section" symbol --  § -- as part of the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_sign

Thanks, Flapp :shaka:  I didn't think of just googling "section".  I didn't know how to type in that double s symbol so I though I'd ask here.   :oops:

Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

QUIETShooter

I'm still working on my testimony and I have a question on the live fire qualification testing requirements of the Chiefs proposed CCW rules:

What does "4 second draw - 2 second split" mean?  The 4 second draw part seems self-explanatory but what does the 2 second split mean.  Let's say the string is 5 rounds.

Never had to live fire for qualification so forgive my ignorance.

 
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

zippz

I'm still working on my testimony and I have a question on the live fire qualification testing requirements of the Chiefs proposed CCW rules:

What does "4 second draw - 2 second split" mean?  The 4 second draw part seems self-explanatory but what does the 2 second split mean.  Let's say the string is 5 rounds.

Never had to live fire for qualification so forgive my ignorance.

I've never seen courses of fire written like that.

I'm assuming those are the writers notes that were accidentally included in the policy, basically how they calculated the time limits.

"splits" mean the time between each shot.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

zippz

I recommend submitting written testimony in addition to your in-person testimony, and to submit it early.  This way they have time to read through them prior to and consider them, and it's also part of the official record.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

QUIETShooter

I've never seen courses of fire written like that.

I'm assuming those are the writers notes that were accidentally included in the policy, basically how they calculated the time limits.

"splits" mean the time between each shot.

Ok.  Thank you. :shaka:
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Kindersoper

I’m new around here but I am planning to attend so maybe I’ll see some of you there. Interested to hear what comes of this  :shaka:

obm

https://www.honolulupd.org/police-services/firearms/proposed-amendment-to-chapter-15-of-the-rules-of-the-chief-of-police/

I've been working on my comments/testimony on the proposed amendments.  I didn't address every issue so I left those blank:

-----

Thank you for the opportunity to submit testimony on the Proposed Amendment to Chapter 15 of the Rules of the Chief of Police.

I would like to comment on the proposed amendments below.

Set forth a clear process for applicants to obtain permits to acquire firearms and to register firearms;

I suggest we model the Hawaii firearms permit process to follow the Illinois Firearms Owner Identification Card(FOID) card model.  Instead of issuing permits for each handgun or annually issuing a long gun permit, a FOID card is issued to a gun owner.  Once someone applies for a FOID card, they are fingerprinted, have their background check and mental/health check done, and then they are entered into the Rap Back program.  They are issued a FOID card that is required to purchase a firearm. Because the person has a FOID card, they are enrolled in the Rap Back program that continually checks for criminal activity(basically, an ongoing background check).  Since they are under a continual background check they don't need a background check for every firearm purchase.  If the person is a first time purchaser of a firearm, they are required to wait for the two week waiting period.  And a FOID owner that has an existing firearm registered will not be required to wait the two week waiting period(it doesn't make sense to make a person go through the waiting period because the purpose of the waiting period is a cool down period to prevent angry people to go out and buy a gun while they are angry and shoot someone).  A person would show their FOID card at a gun store to purchase a firearm.  The gun store would input the person's FOID number online to HPD and input the firearm information and serial number so the firearm is automatically registered with HPD.  If the Rap Back program flags the person with a recent crime or TRO, the FOID check will inform the gun store that the person is not eligible to purchase a firearm.  If there are no flags, the person completes the firearm purchase and takes it home.

I suggest the FOID card does not include the owner's home address or Social Security Number printed on the card.

Set forth a clear process and criteria (including testing, training, and background check requirements) for detectives, investigators, and guards to obtain licenses to carry firearms while on-duty, along with requirements for detective and guard agencies with armed employees;



Following the Supreme Court’s ruling in N.Y. State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n, Inc. v. Bruen, set forth a clear process and criteria (including testing, training, and background check requirements) for applicants to obtain licenses to carry firearms outside the home, whether concealed or unconcealed;

Since it's against the law(Murdock v. Pennsylvania (1943)) to tax a constitutional right(2nd Amendment), for any costs associated with obtaining a concealed carry permit or a FOID card, gun owners should be eligible to claim a Federal and Hawaii state tax credit for money spent on certification and training cost that are required by the government to get a FOID or Concealed Carry license.  These costs include testing, training, background check fees, ammunition and target costs for training and competency tests.  By requiring people to take a concealed carry course or handgun safety test with associated ammunition and target costs, the government is technically leveling a tax on the 2nd Amendment right when the gun owner needs to pay for these things to get their FOID or carry license.

Provide substantive guidelines for carrying a firearm outside the home, including the manner in which a firearm shall be carried, a requirement to carry one’s license on one’s person, and a requirement to carry no more than one firearm at a time;

I heard discussions regarding requiring Level 2 retention devices for holsters.  Any retention device requirement above Level 1 should only be applicable to open carry.  I'm not even sure there are concealed carry holsters with Level 2 retention devices.

I also heard about designating places where you are prohibited from carrying a firearm.  For places that prohibit firearms, I would like to see a statutory requirement that these places are required to provide secure gun lockers where gun owners can secure their firearms before entering the establishment, the quantity of lockers would be equal to 5% of the maximum person capacity for the establishment, 

Set forth a clear process and criteria for certification of instructors to teach firearm safety and administer the required testing for applicants for licenses to carry;

Set forth a clear process for renewing licenses; and

Provide the circumstances under which licenses to carry and instructor certifications will be revoked and the appeal process for denials and revocations.