Young v. State of Hawaii (Read 124238 times)

Dregs

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2013, 08:19:38 AM »
I can't access scribd at work!....can anyone nutshell what the George young reply says?

FATMANWA

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2013, 02:47:27 PM »
So from what I understand the Judges ruling is all these laws should be struck down? Sounds pretty good to me. I am assuming the state will have the chance to appeal it before it takes affect, correct?

FATMANWA

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2013, 07:54:19 PM »
Any news??

Funtimes

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2013, 01:45:43 PM »
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
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Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

FATMANWA

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2013, 04:28:39 PM »
Check back in a year.

Not surprising, sadly I will no longer be in Hawaii.

MisterEd

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2013, 06:54:20 PM »
Glad to see you're still such an optimist, Funtimes.
 :)

punaperson

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2015, 09:59:45 PM »
Glad to see you're still such an optimist, Funtimes.
 :)
It's been 22 months since Chris posted his "Check back in a year" message. That year wait looks awfully good right now. Young is held up indefinitely (apparently) while Peruta/Richards/Baker continue to be stonewalled and delayed for years be addressed in a timely manner by the judicial system. Too bad, because Young would/could strike some deep blows against Hawaii's unconstitutional violations of the Second Amendment. At this point I'm tempted to say "Wait two years", but that might be unrealistically overly optimistic.

Funtimes

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2015, 08:58:30 PM »
It's been 22 months since Chris posted his "Check back in a year" message. That year wait looks awfully good right now. Young is held up indefinitely (apparently) while Peruta/Richards/Baker continue to be stonewalled and delayed for years be addressed in a timely manner by the judicial system. Too bad, because Young would/could strike some deep blows against Hawaii's unconstitutional violations of the Second Amendment. At this point I'm tempted to say "Wait two years", but that might be unrealistically overly optimistic.

I'll help you out.  Check back when I am retired =P  :shaka:  only 22 years to go!
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
HDF on Facebook
Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

punaperson

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2017, 06:27:25 AM »
It's been 22 months since Chris posted his "Check back in a year" message. That year wait looks awfully good right now. Young is held up indefinitely (apparently) while Peruta/Richards/Baker continue to be stonewalled and delayed for years be addressed in a timely manner by the judicial system. Too bad, because Young would/could strike some deep blows against Hawaii's unconstitutional violations of the Second Amendment. At this point I'm tempted to say "Wait two years", but that might be unrealistically overly optimistic.
Well, quoting myself above, I was "unrealistically overly optimistic", as we are more than two years down the road and things are still "in limbo", though at least Peruta is nearing some finality (of some kind in it's quest for cert at SCOTUS). I'd have to say that at this point I have no idea when anything will happen with this case that would be "definitive" (i.e. a dismissal or actual oral arguments before the Ninth, etc.), but "years" is (unfortunately) likely the proper unit of measurement.

A "Supplemental authority" regarding the Fisher v. Kealoha decision was just filed (quoting the same portions of judge Kozinski's dissent/"rumination" that I posted on the Fisher v Kealoha thread).

http://blog.californiarighttocarry.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/105-1-Young-v-Hawaii-FRAP28j.pdf

punaperson

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2017, 07:44:06 AM »
Well, here is some (sorta) news, as something (sorta) has happened that could (sorta) possibly mean that something could (sorta) happen with this case.

[TLDR: the legal pathway is now free to schedule orals/decision in Young, and if orals are scheduled Nichols will ask that his open carry case be heard simultaneously.]

From Charles Nichols who has his open carry case on appeals before the Ninth CCA, which was stayed pending the now-finally-totally-defunct Peruta case.

http://blog.californiarighttocarry.org/?page_id=846

Update by Charles Nichols, President of California Right To Carry – June 27,  2017 – This appeal was stayed pending the disposition of Baker v. Kealoha.  Baker v. Kealoha was remanded back to the district court thereby terminating the stay.  Nevertheless, the plaintiff’s attorney filed a motion to lift the stay (which was no longer in effect).  Today, the Clerk of the Court entered an Order (on behalf of the Court) lifting the stay.  The Clerk also said that ” This appeal shall be placed on the next available calendar.”

103 – Order lifting stay of appeal – Young v Hawaii – Filed June 27, 2017  http://blog.californiarighttocarry.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/103-Order-lifting-stay-of-appeal-Young-v-Hawaii.pdf

If this appeal is scheduled for oral arguments then you should not be surprised to see a motion from me asking for my appeal to be heard at the same time, before the same panel.

drck1000

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2017, 08:07:04 AM »
Catching up on all of this.  Let me see if I got most of what's going on now SCOTUS essentially did an "I'm not touching that".

Essentially a number of cases were pending decisions on Peruta.  So some are going to now be moving forward?  I also assumed that now that Peruta is, or at least seems dead in the water, that many cases would also be of similar fate.  I assume each case can be pursued based on it's own merits, just that I recall a number of cases being sort of put on pause pending Peruta. 

As I understand it, SCOTUS saying "they're not touching" Peruta basically means things need to get dealt with at lower levels.  On one hand, that's not that promising considering our district/area and seems like cases that could normally get elevated to SCOTUS probably would suffer the same fate. However, maybe some start breaking through as lower courts get filled with hopefully more conservative judges. 

punaperson

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2017, 08:42:19 AM »
I'm just making wild speculative guesses here...

Catching up on all of this.  Let me see if I got most of what's going on now SCOTUS essentially did an "I'm not touching that".

SCOTUS let stand the Ninth CCA ruling that "There is no constitutional right to bear arms concealed in public". I.e. Concealed Carry is a "privilege", not a "right", and states may regulate in any manner they choose, including ban it (i.e. what we de facto have in Hawaii...  perfectly legal and constitutional according the the Ninth CCA).

Essentially a number of cases were pending decisions on Peruta.  So some are going to now be moving forward? 

Yes. A number of cases were "stayed", i.e. not allowed to progress in the decision-making process because the issues they raised would (likely) be effected by the eventual outcome of Peruta. First up, and both raising questions of "open carry", are Young and Nichols.

I also assumed that now that Peruta is, or at least seems dead in the water, that many cases would also be of similar fate. 

Peruta is OVER. There are no further options to litigate it. There may be an option akin to "please please please change your mind SCOTUS and reconsider cert", but what, justices are going to change their mind after they just voted? Any case in the Ninth CCA arguing anything based upon a claim there is a constitutional right to bear arms concealed is public would be dead in the water. Though if that was not the exclusive claim, it could still be alive on the other claims.

I assume each case can be pursued based on it's own merits, just that I recall a number of cases being sort of put on pause pending Peruta. 

As I understand it, SCOTUS saying "they're not touching" Peruta basically means things need to get dealt with at lower levels.  On one hand, that's not that promising considering our district/area and seems like cases that could normally get elevated to SCOTUS probably would suffer the same fate.

It's unquestionably clear that the vast majority of the judges sitting on the Ninth CCA oppose bearing arms in public, certainly concealed, so any such cases are pretty doomed to failure in the Ninth. Thomas suggested in his dissent that some members of SCOTUS want a "cleaner" case than Peruta, which raises a single question more clearly, which would render a more precise legal decision. So they might still take a case (Norman, Nichols, Grace, etc.), but no one knows if or which one would meet the criteria of the hesitant justices.

However, maybe some start breaking through as lower courts get filled with hopefully more conservative judges.

The balance of judges changing is going to be a long long process, and likely only get to an "even" level of "conservative"/"liberal" if Republicans controlled the White House for a dozen years or more, AND made consistently "good" appointments, unlike those of the Bushes.

punaperson

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2017, 04:46:25 PM »
On July 4, 2017 Mr. Nichols filed the paperwork mentioned above to have his case heard at the same time Young is heard before the three-judge panel (as Peruta, Richards, and Baker were all heard before the same panel due to close similarity in subject matter). The likely earliest date Young might be scheduled is October, 2017.

http://blog.californiarighttocarry.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/82-Plaintiff-Appellant-Nichols-Motion-to-Schedule-Oral-Argument-With-Related-Case.pdf

If the court takes Young separately, the court could stay Nichols (as Young and Nichols were stayed pending a final decision in Peruta) because some of the same issues are raised, thus delaying Nichols' case by at least a year if not two or more (assuming further appeals on the inevitable "loss" before the Ninth). While the seeming "delay" tactics have been prominent with the Second Amendment cases before the Ninth up to this point, some people think that due to the likelihood that Trump will be appointing at least one more Justice to SCOTUS prior to the end of his first term, that the Ninth judges might be re-thinking the delay strategy, as the longer the delay, the more likely the makeup of SCOTUS justices will be swinging to the Second Amendment advocates side. Time will tell. Of course I may no longer around by then... but I'm hoping for the best!

wolfwood

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2017, 03:42:12 PM »
the Court asked if I available the week of Nov 6th for oral argument in Pasadena.

I said yes. County of Hawaii said they were not wiling to fly to the mainland though so it might get delayed.
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punaperson

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2017, 04:17:24 PM »
the Court asked if I available the week of Nov 6th for oral argument in Pasadena.

I said yes. County of Hawaii said they were not wiling to fly to the mainland though so it might get delayed.
Can any attorneys, or only government attorneys tell the Ninth Circuit they are "not willing" to appear at the location of a scheduled court proceeding? What is the "solution"? Move the orals to Hilo? Have the court pay airfare for the county attorneys? Just say "Ah, you guys win anyway, no need to show up"?

Not that I'm very familiar with the legal world, but I've never heard of this one before...

wolfwood

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2017, 04:27:08 PM »
Can any attorneys, or only government attorneys tell the Ninth Circuit they are "not willing" to appear at the location of a scheduled court proceeding? What is the "solution"? Move the orals to Hilo? Have the court pay airfare for the county attorneys? Just say "Ah, you guys win anyway, no need to show up"?

Not that I'm very familiar with the legal world, but I've never heard of this one before...

They want it moved to Oahu. Let's just say it is a bolder approach than I would take. Normally you have to have a reason for why you can't show up and not wanting to fly typically is not a good enough reason.
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London808

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2017, 04:32:41 PM »
They want it moved to Oahu. Let's just say it is a bolder approach than I would take. Normally you have to have a reason for why you can't show up and not wanting to fly typically is not a good enough reason.

They dont have the money, they spent it all fighting trumps travel ban lol
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

punaperson

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2017, 04:39:46 PM »
They want it moved to Oahu. Let's just say it is a bolder approach than I would take. Normally you have to have a reason for why you can't show up and not wanting to fly typically is not a good enough reason.
Thank you for the update/information. They're (County of Hawaii) willing to fly to Oahu? I guess that means the "reason" is not "airsickness" or "fear of flying". Are they claiming "financial hardship" or what? Not that you would know, but the whole thing kinda "smells" to me. But what do I know?  :shaka:

punaperson

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2017, 04:42:28 PM »
They dont have the money, they spent it all fighting trumps travel ban lol
It's probably my fault... if they hadn't spent all the time, money and resources on my 30 letters and two Office of Information Practices Act (OIPA) requests and appeals in the past two years they probably could have flown first class...  :rofl:

punaperson

Re: Update Young v. State of Hawaii
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2017, 05:03:34 PM »
I certainly don't "know" if this is true, but have heard:

"9th circuit rules require that Young be heard in Hawaii unless there is some other case which, in the interest of judicial economy, supports relocating the oral arguments to another courthouse."

IF that is true, it could mean that the court is seriously considering consolidating the oral arguments of Young and Nichols...as per Nichols' request mentioned above.