CCW Instructors for Oahu (Read 856 times)

changemyoil66

CCW Instructors for Oahu
« on: November 18, 2022, 08:49:08 AM »
With the new rules coming into effect of 11/20; I hope you all are preparing to submit your lesson plans to HPD as required by the rules.  Since HPD has to approve all instructors, see rules section to what has to be covered in the 4 hours.

With that being said, there is also no word on what specifics HPD is requiring.  Since this is new to them.  But IMO, I expect them to screw with instructors like how they did with Taser sellers.  Maybe they might even put out specifics, no one knows yet.

So the point of this post is to start getting ready and don't just wait until the last moment to then have the lessons ready, which might take an additional weeks to month to plan.

This also includes that it's unknown what credentials are acceptable.  If HPD was gool, they would just say any NRA Instructor can teach it and no other credentials are required...that's IF they were cool.

Stack_Xchange

Re: CCW Instructors for Oahu
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2022, 09:28:20 AM »
I just hope this isn't one of those things that "only a few" people are certified and there are ridiculous requirements like 10 million dollar liability insurance to teach these classes. Just wait, it's 2024 and no one has their permits yet because there are no instructors.

changemyoil66

Re: CCW Instructors for Oahu
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2022, 09:47:19 AM »
I just hope this isn't one of those things that "only a few" people are certified and there are ridiculous requirements like 10 million dollar liability insurance to teach these classes. Just wait, it's 2024 and no one has their permits yet because there are no instructors.

The way HI handled Taser sellers, I wouldn't expect anything less.  Good thing HIFICO submitted a UIPA to the AG's office to find out about the delay.  And the AG reported the FBI said no to HPD's use of their background check system for sellers since NCICS isn't used for this.  And the apps sat on HPD's desk until the AG inquired.  Then magically, the approvals were given within a week or 2. '

Then the Maui city counsel didn't have their ordinance hearing until a lawsuit was filed by Alan Beck (1 of HIFICO's attornies). The counsel claimed that no lawsuit was needed cause they would have worked on this quickly. And again magically once the lawsuit was filed, within a week the hearing took place.

nalo_b

Re: CCW Instructors for Oahu
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2022, 01:38:55 PM »
Good topic as I wanted to know about this a well.

Rocky

Re: CCW Instructors for Oahu
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2022, 02:26:31 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 07:05:41 AM by Rocky »
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
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macsak

Re: CCW Instructors for Oahu
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2022, 02:40:25 PM »
does not meet the double secret requirements of this section...

Never liked

15-19 (3)
The instructor shall also provide the Honolulu Police Department with a copy of the written
examination to be used, and the instructor’s verification application shall be rejected if the
written examination does not meet the requirements of this section

Stack_Xchange

Re: CCW Instructors for Oahu
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2022, 01:56:24 PM »
The more I think about this, the more I realize this is probably their best strategy given all the recent rulings.

They cannot require you demonstrate "need" to be approved for a CCW, "sensitive places" are probably not a thing, etc. -- but they can just mass reject all applications stating you did not meet the training requirements. I just don't see the state going this route and conceding this angle by giving all NRA instructors et. al. the ability to administer the CCW test. Is there anything in current law that would give any "certified firearms instructor" the ability to administer these tests, similar to how any doctor can do the mental health portion of the permit to acquire? Is there anything in current law that establishes a baseline firearms test? I'm basically looking at ways the state could gatekeep, either at the "instructors" or the "test".

changemyoil66

Re: CCW Instructors for Oahu
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2022, 02:07:33 PM »
The more I think about this, the more I realize this is probably their best strategy given all the recent rulings.

They cannot require you demonstrate "need" to be approved for a CCW, "sensitive places" are probably not a thing, etc. -- but they can just mass reject all applications stating you did not meet the training requirements. I just don't see the state going this route and conceding this angle by giving all NRA instructors et. al. the ability to administer the CCW test. Is there anything in current law that would give any "certified firearms instructor" the ability to administer these tests, similar to how any doctor can do the mental health portion of the permit to acquire? Is there anything in current law that establishes a baseline firearms test? I'm basically looking at ways the state could gatekeep, either at the "instructors" or the "test".
This is why hifico is so important. The org has the means to file lawsuits if the state delays outside of reasonable. Not only sue, but coordinate instructors/applicants to get together.

The days of HI doing what they want with zero lawsuits are over.

Delay is the only tactic HI has left.

Maui Taser delay is a perfect example.

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: CCW Instructors for Oahu
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2022, 02:44:24 PM »
...[snip]... Is there anything in current law that would give any "certified firearms instructor" the ability to administer these tests, similar to how any doctor can do the mental health portion of the permit to acquire? Is there anything in current law that establishes a baseline firearms test? I'm basically looking at ways the state could gatekeep, either at the "instructors" or the "test".

Nobody in government ever intended to issue CCW licenses to the general public.  Never.  Not ever.

The laws as currently written are being changed via HPD "rules" because the law never anticipated the need to define what a CCW qualification test needed to entail.  No licenses issued = no training or testing standards needed.

Now that the "poison pill" clause (must have exceptional need) has been stricken, the state government is scrambling to put actual training and testing standards in place.

It's clear they never intended to allow anyone the right to bear arms outside the home or business.

Can't really hold them to what the "current law" says when it was never intended to do anything but summarily deny all applications.

Any lawsuits to try and hold them to what the law currently states will be wasted resources and time, because the Leg will have changed the law before any legal actions are able to proceed.

We all saw it coming.  They never intended to issue licenses before the end of 2022 if they could find a way to run out the clock.

If and when certified CCW training is available, the state will again find a reason to delay approvals.  Holidays are a perfect excuse -- manpower shortages, KHSC is closed until next year (if then), shortened hours at HPD, trainers taking vacation time, etc.
Truth, when not sought after, rarely comes to light.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I need some new conspiracy theories. All my old ones turned out to be true.

Hamburger Helper only works if the hamburger really wants to be helped.

nickelzismoney

Re: CCW Instructors for Oahu
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2022, 10:52:15 PM »
HPD can eat a steaming pile of dog shit. And I quite literally hope they do.
“No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how hard you fall… you are never out of the fight.” - Marcus Luttrel

"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." - Albert Einstein

Heavies

Re: CCW Instructors for Oahu
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2022, 09:43:09 PM »
They could just ban NRA as a valid instructional organization, like they are doing here…. Oops. No instructors available, no rights for you.