TRO and order to surrender firearms (Read 10142 times)

z06psi

TRO and order to surrender firearms
« on: March 06, 2017, 09:19:23 PM »
Looking for a little clarification or at least the law that states that a in case of a TRO the judge can order the surrender of firearms.

Situation
TRO issued on someone in a house but neither the defendant or a named respondent in the TRO have any firearms registered to them. 

Can the judge issue a order to surrender to someone not named on the TRO?

What about a multi-family dwelling?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2017, 09:24:21 PM »
Looking for a little clarification or at least the law that states that a in case of a TRO the judge can order the surrender of firearms.

Situation
TRO issued on someone in a house but neither the defendant or a named respondent in the TRO have any firearms registered to them. 

Can the judge issue a order to surrender to someone not named on the TRO?

What about a multi-family dwelling?


https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25927.msg228233#msg228233

"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

z06psi

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2017, 09:26:02 PM »
I was looking for that post but it wasn't coming up with my search terms.

However the situation is a little different. The owner of the firearms is not listed anywhere in the TRO.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2017, 10:17:43 PM »
I was looking for that post but it wasn't coming up with my search terms.

However the situation is a little different. The owner of the firearms is not listed anywhere in the TRO.

TRO was against Son.

Firearm owner was father.

Why is that different?
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

z06psi

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2017, 10:21:32 PM »
Father was named as a respondent. 

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2017, 01:49:14 AM »
Father was named as a respondent. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I didn't see that in the other thread.  What he said in the OP was, since the son is a minor, the TRO applied to him as well.  I read that as the gun part applied, not that he was to keep his distance as well.

Carry on!

 :wacko:
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

Colt808

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2017, 04:41:15 AM »
Looking for a little clarification or at least the law that states that a in case of a TRO the judge can order the surrender of firearms.
A judge does not have to order it.  Anyone subject to a restraining order is prohibited from firearms possession under 18 USC 922 and HRS 134-7 (f).

Quote
Situation
TRO issued on someone in a house but neither the defendant or a named respondent in the TRO have any firearms registered to them. 

Can the judge issue a order to surrender to someone not named on the TRO?

What about a multi-family dwelling?
The TRO and any orders at the time of hearing would apply only to the respondent(s).
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. ~Thomas Paine


And I still see stupid people.

Tom_G

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2017, 07:16:01 AM »
So, how would this play our in the case of a married couple with joint registration on firearms? If one of the married partners became subject to a TRO, would HPD confiscate the firearms the firearms or not?
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

punaperson

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2017, 07:38:25 AM »
So, how would this play our in the case of a married couple with joint registration on firearms? If one of the married partners became subject to a TRO, would HPD confiscate the firearms the firearms or not?
And what if they were married, but separated, and living in separate domiciles, and either 1. had divided the firearms between them, or 2. the subject of the TRO had no firearms in their possession?  :geekdanc:

drck1000

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 07:48:03 AM »
So, how would this play our in the case of a married couple with joint registration on firearms? If one of the married partners became subject to a TRO, would HPD confiscate the firearms the firearms or not?
You can transfer all of said guns to me.  I will take real good care of them!   ;D

London808

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2017, 08:04:27 AM »
Looking for a little clarification or at least the law that states that a in case of a TRO the judge can order the surrender of firearms.

Situation
TRO issued on someone in a house but neither the defendant or a named respondent in the TRO have any firearms registered to them. 

Can the judge issue a order to surrender to someone not named on the TRO?

What about a multi-family dwelling?

No, If a person is not named on a TRO they can not be issued a surrender order. 
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

changemyoil66

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 08:35:31 AM »
No, If a person is not named on a TRO they can not be issued a surrender order.

^^^This, but HPD makes up interpretations of laws.  Even if you print out and show it to them, the officer might still take your guns.  Depends on how intelligent the officer is.

Tom_G

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2017, 09:32:51 AM »
You can transfer all of said guns to me.  I will take real good care of them!   ;D

Generous offer, but according to HRS 134-7, the moment that TRO is served, the recipient can no longer transfer ownership of firearms.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

rklapp

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2017, 10:22:04 AM »
So how does that work. Does the HPD obtain a search warrant to find the firearms or do they immediately arrest the registered firearm owner for not complying with the HRS if the registered owner doesn't immediately hand them over whether they are included in the TRO or not?
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

Flapp_Jackson

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2017, 10:31:28 AM »
So how does that work. Does the HPD obtain a search warrant to find the firearms or do they immediately arrest the registered firearm owner for not complying with the HRS if the registered owner doesn't immediately hand them over whether they are included in the TRO or not?

A TRO has to be served on the people named in it, like a subpoena.  If they know guns are in the house, they could do the TRO and confiscation in one visit.

I'm just guessing, but I'd bet the TRO has a blanket clause that covers surrender or confiscation of any firearms the named individuals have access to.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

rklapp

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2017, 01:13:54 PM »
Sure, but I assume that the officer will arrive with a list of all registered firearms at the address. How does it work if the owner flat out lies and says that they don't have the firearms anymore because they mailed them to another State. Does the officer get the cuffs out?

A TRO has to be served on the people named in it, like a subpoena.  If they know guns are in the house, they could do the TRO and confiscation in one visit.

I'm just guessing, but I'd bet the TRO has a blanket clause that covers surrender or confiscation of any firearms the named individuals have access to.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

Flapp_Jackson

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2017, 01:24:49 PM »
Sure, but I assume that the officer will arrive with a list of all registered firearms at the address. How does it work if the owner flat out lies and says that they don't have the firearms anymore because they mailed them to another State. Does the officer get the cuffs out?

I don't know the legalities of TROs when it comes to needing a warrant to search for guns.

Since there's no unregistration process for guns that leave the state, I'm sure that's the #1 fallback for anyone denying they still have any firearms registered to them in the past.

I'd speculate if the owner can't produce proof of out-of-state transfer, it would be easy for the Cop to request a warrant while he sits in the car out front.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

z06psi

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2017, 01:30:08 PM »
Thanks London.

Gentlemen,  this is why ambiguous laws are passed.  Then they can be enforced on a feeling vs. the text of the law.  Lawmakers are lazy when it comes to their primary purpose. However, they are not lazy when it comes to socializing and making promises.

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Tom_G

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2017, 01:45:29 PM »
If you guys were to make use of the fantastic resource that you're using to hypothesize, you may come across something useful.  Such as...

Quote from: HRS 134-7(f)
No person who has been restrained pursuant to an order of any court, including an ex parte order as provided in this subsection, from contacting, threatening, or physically abusing any person, shall possess, control, or transfer ownership of any firearm or ammunition therefor, so long as the protective order, restraining order, or any extension is in effect, unless the order, for good cause shown, specifically permits the possession of a firearm and ammunition.  The restraining order or order of protection shall specifically include a statement that possession, control, or transfer of ownership of a firearm or ammunition by the person named in the order is prohibited.  Such person shall relinquish possession and control of any firearm and ammunition owned by that person to the police department of the appropriate county for safekeeping for the duration of the order or extension thereof.  In the case of an ex parte order, the affidavit or statement under oath that forms the basis for the order shall contain a statement of the facts that support a finding that the person to be restrained owns, intends to obtain or to transfer ownership of, or possesses a firearm, and that the firearm may be used to threaten, injure, or abuse any person.  The ex parte order shall be effective upon service pursuant to section 586-6.  At the time of service of a restraining order involving firearms and ammunition issued by any court, the police officer may take custody of any and all firearms and ammunition in plain sight, those discovered pursuant to a consensual search, and those firearms surrendered by the person restrained.  If the person restrained is the registered owner of a firearm and knows the location of the firearm, but refuses to surrender the firearm or refuses to disclose the location of the firearm, the person restrained shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.  In any case, when a police officer is unable to locate the firearms and ammunition either registered under this chapter or known to the person granted protection by the court, the police officer shall apply to the court for a search warrant pursuant to chapter 803 for the limited purpose of seizing the firearm and ammunition.

     For the purposes of this subsection, good cause shall not be based solely upon the consideration that the person subject to restraint pursuant to an order of any court, including an ex parte order as provided for in this subsection, is required to possess or carry firearms or ammunition during the course of the person's employment.  Good cause consideration may include but not be limited to the protection and safety of the person to whom a restraining order is granted.

So, cop knocks on door. "Hi. Here, have this TRO."
If she sees any guns or ammo, she can take them. If not, the conversation continues:
"So, I have this list of guns that are registered to you. Can I have them all, please? Oh, and any ammo?"
You say "No, no, that's not gonna happen."
Cop shrugs. "Shoots. You have just committed a misdemeanor. Expect a fine for that. I'll be back with a search warrant. See you soon!"
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

rklapp

Re: TRO and order to surrender firearms
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2017, 01:58:16 PM »
That answers that. Good to know.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/