How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL) (Read 25744 times)

suka

How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« on: October 02, 2014, 05:14:59 PM »
 :thumbsup: Howzit bra,

The National Firearms Act (NFA), enacted in 1934, imposes a statutory excise tax on the manufacture and transfer of certain firearms and mandates the registration of those firearms. The Act was passed shortly after the repeal of Prohibition. The NFA is also referred to as Title II of the Federal firearms laws. The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) is Title I (normal firearms).

All transfers of ownership of registered NFA firearms must be done through the federal NFA registry. The NFA also requires that permanent transport of NFA firearms across state lines by the owner must be reported to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF, or BATFE). Temporary transport of some items, most notably silencers and AOWs do not need to be reported.

Restriction under HRS 134-8 prohibite certain NFA items by name. They are machine guns, suppressors, and SBRs. Nonetheless, AOWs are never mentioned and Destructive Devises are specifically allowed and do not require registration!

The NFA currently allows three different types of transfers , they are an Individual , a Trust, or under a Corporation. The last two types do not require finger prints or a Chief of Law Enforcement  (CLEO) signature. Since Individuals and Corporate transfers are less common in Hawaii, lets focus on the Trust.

Firstly, one must set up a Trust, this is required in Hawaii since not a single CLEO will sign off for a NFA transfer. There are numerous ways to get a Trust started. A notary public is all that is required by law to set up. Many online ads  sells NFA trust for $99 to $199 , these are actually pretty good for basic NFA and be be done in a week or less. But as a recommendation,  seek a lawyer for more in-depth advise. 
Best of all with a trust, no FBI fingerprint checks are required  and with the recently changes, the ATF has allow the use of Credit Cards to pay the NFA tax. This has shorten the wait time down to a record  few weeks from the previous 6-8 months. Another advantage is worth noting. With a trust, you have the freedom to amend the list of trustees at any time. That means multiple people can be authorized to hold the NFA item in their possession. If you register as an individual, you have to be present whenever the NFA item is out of your safe. Just a note Hawaii has a 1% income tax on trust profits.
 

Find a tranfer FFL with a Speacial Occupacy Tax 3 (SOT3) normally called Class 3 dealers. According to the ATF listing there are a few in Hawaii. How do you think HPD transfers their MG to Hawaii. It must go through a SOT3.

NFA items is also know as Class 3 items, that are no more than extra paperwork and TAX.
With an AOW the transfer tax is only $5 (Form4) , yes that's right less than a plate lunch! However, to manufacture one (also know as a Form1) within your own home is $200. As for DDs they are $200 regardless if its manufactured or transferred. 


Below are some indepth look at what AOW and DD are and the laws that pertain to them.


















Most Destructive Devices (DD) are legal in Hawaii and do not require registration!

Its a $200 manufacture or transfer tax per item to register with the BATF on a Form 1 or  Form 4
A normal SOT 3 can handle only one or two DD transfer per tax year. Case by case per the ATF field office.
Some item not allowed in Hawaii are cannon, hand grenades and bombs.



HRS    134-3 (d)3

All unserviceable firearms and destructive devices registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms of the United States Department of Justice pursuant to Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations.




HRS   134-8

Ownership, etc., of automatic firearms, silencers, etc., prohibited; penalties.  (a)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of any of the following is prohibited:  assault pistols, except as provided by section 134-4(e); automatic firearms; rifles with barrel lengths less than sixteen inches; shotguns with barrel lengths less than eighteen inches; cannons; mufflers, silencers, or devices for deadening or muffling the sound of discharged firearms; hand grenades, dynamite, blasting caps, bombs, or bombshells, or other explosives; or any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof coated with teflon or any other similar coating designed primarily to enhance its capability to penetrate metal or pierce protective armor; and any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof designed or intended to explode or segment upon impact with its target.







National Firearms Act Definitions
Destructive Device
26 U.S.C. § 5845(F)


For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term “Destructive Device” means:

A missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than 1/4 oz.
 
Any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may readily be converted to expel a projectile, by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore greater than one-half inch in diameter.
 
A combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a device into a destructive device and from which a destructive device can be readily assembled.



LEGAL



















NOT Legal










Obtaining AOW items in Hawaii

That right you can fly in your AOW  from the mainland to hawaii and register them legally as normal pistols.

No form 5320.20 is required either. Silencers and AOW are exempt under 922 (a) 4.

HRS has no provision to ban certain AOW.   Any "firearm" of any shape with a barrel less than 16" is a pistol under HRS;  provided it does not meet the definition of an "assault pistol".

Any handgun / pistol with a fore grip is an AOW,  With the shorty shotguns, HRS does not define a  "shotgun" thus the term is carried over by BATF under 18 USC 921(a)5.
example : a sawed off shotgun is still a shotgun because it had a "stock" installed, a Serbu Shorty was a plain receiver from the factory and  was never a shotgun by name because a "stock" was never installed.

example : a AR pistol with a permanent magazine is not an assault pistol and will be legal in Hawaii with a fore grip as an AOW.



HRS   134-1

"Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition or any noxious gas.

     "Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol which accepts a detachable magazine and which has two or    more of the following characteristics:
    (1)  An ammunition magazine which attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
    (2)  A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward hand grip, or silencer;
    (3)  A shroud which is attached to or partially or completely encircles the barrel and which permits the shooter                         
                 to hold the firearm with the second hand without being burned;
    (4)  A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;
    (5)  A centerfire pistol with an overall length of twelve inches or more; or
    (6)  It is a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;

            but does not include a firearm with a barrel sixteen or more inches in length, an antique pistol as defined in     
            this section or a curio or relic as those terms are used in 18 USC.




HRS 134-8
Ownership, etc., of automatic firearms, silencers, etc., prohibited; penalties.  (a)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of any of the following is prohibited:  assault pistols, except as provided by section 134-4(e); automatic firearms; rifles with barrel lengths less than sixteen inches; shotguns with barrel lengths less than eighteen inches; cannons; mufflers, silencers, or devices for deadening or muffling the sound of discharged firearms; hand grenades, dynamite, blasting caps, bombs, or bombshells, or other explosives; or any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof coated with teflon or any other similar coating designed primarily to enhance its capability to penetrate metal or pierce protective armor; and any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof designed or intended to explode or segment upon impact with its target.





USC


26 USC 5845
Any other weapon
The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.


18 USC 922(a)4
for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed
      manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, to
      transport in interstate or foreign commerce any destructive
      device, machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the Internal
      Revenue Code of 1986), short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled
      rifle, except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General
      consistent with public safety and necessity;


18 USC 921(a)5

The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be [span style='color: red;']fired from the shoulder[/span], and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.





LEGAL



















NOT LEGAL












OK come and join the NFA club of HAWAII
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 08:58:47 PM by suka »

suka

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2014, 12:58:00 AM »
A shotgun by definition  has / had a stock.  once a stock is install it will always be a shotgun under the law, even when removed.

A shotgun receiver  (only)  , never had a stock installed  . which in turns can be made into a pistol / handgun.


stockless shotgun can be purchased , these transfer as a other (receiver only)  on a 4473.
With HPD apply for a PISTOL permit for the receiver,
Once you get your receiver , file a Form 1 with the ATF and $200 manufacture TAX. or give it to a SOT1 for a tax free build.
$5 transfer tax is only when its  transferred a Form 3  from a SOT3 or SOT1 or Form 4 individual from the same State..



« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 03:39:28 AM by suka »

dirsh

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 07:44:09 PM »
what about a gun like this?
http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_XO-26.html



Quote
The XO-26™ features an 11.5" barrel and comes in 5.56 NATO (.223 Remington,) 6.8 SPC, 300 Blackout, 7.62x39, or 450 Bushmaster.  The XO-26™ ships to 01/FFLs, and it is not an AOW.  Consequently, no NFA paperwork is required!  Each XO-26 ships with a copy of the ATF approval letter signed by the Chief of the ATF Firearms Technology Branch.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
╾━╤デ╦︻

suka

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 09:20:55 PM »
That would be classified as an assault pistol in Hawaii. Unless it is not a semi auto or does not have a detachable magazine.

Funtimes

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2015, 11:52:22 AM »
A shotgun by definition  has / had a stock.  once a stock is install it will always be a shotgun under the law, even when removed.

A shotgun receiver  (only)  , never had a stock installed  . which in turns can be made into a pistol / handgun.


stockless shotgun can be purchased , these transfer as a other (receiver only)  on a 4473.
With HPD apply for a PISTOL permit for the receiver,
Once you get your receiver , file a Form 1 with the ATF and $200 manufacture TAX. or give it to a SOT1 for a tax free build.
$5 transfer tax is only when its  transferred a Form 3  from a SOT3 or SOT1 or Form 4 individual from the same State..





I wonder how the redesign theory published for the sig arm brace affects guns that you change and "redesign" i.e. not having a grip etc.

Q

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2015, 02:25:53 PM »
.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 10:11:50 PM by Q »

durkn

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2015, 09:21:44 PM »
So could I SBR an HK USC / UMP conversion if I had a bullet button? ( fixed mag)
One of the fundamental delusions of liberalism is that they have a monopoly on compassion.

suka

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2015, 09:23:48 PM »
So could I SBR an HK USC / UMP conversion if I had a bullet button? ( fixed mag)
no
SBR are specifically banned by name!

xant1248

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2015, 06:32:57 PM »
Wait so AOW are legal and not banned in Hawaii? So we could build an AR-15 "pistol" after we get permission to make it an AOW? So we could not use a stock but could have a braced "rifle pistol"? Could we use greater than 10 round magazines in AOWs? I thought all NFA was banned in Hawaii.

mauidog

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2015, 06:40:28 PM »
Wait so AOW are legal and not banned in Hawaii? So we could build an AR-15 "pistol" after we get permission to make it an AOW? So we could not use a stock but could have a braced "rifle pistol"? Could we use greater than 10 round magazines in AOWs? I thought all NFA was banned in Hawaii.

Lots of threads on here regarding AOW and AR-15 pistols (not the be confused with assault pistols).  Look them up.  They contain very specific tips on how to do things legally and in the proper order.

AR-15 pistols are fine as long as you remove some characteristic that makes it an assault pistol.  Most importantly, if you are building it from a lower, the lower must have never been transferred as a rifle.  If you make it a pistol on the Form 4473, that's the first step.  After that, either welding the > 10 round mag in the mag well or disabling the gas system so it's no longer semi-auto avoids the "assault pistol" definitions.

An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

eyeeatingfish

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2015, 05:21:23 AM »
I thought the sawed off shotgun was just illegal due to the barrel length. Are you saying that putting a pistol grip only on in place of a traditional stock is not legal?

suka

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2015, 08:59:40 AM »
I thought the sawed off shotgun was just illegal due to the barrel length. Are you saying that putting a pistol grip only on in place of a traditional stock is not legal?
That is several question  in one.
Firstly, a shotgun must have a barrel length of 18" and an overall length (OAL)  of 26" Both MUST comply and designed to shoot from the shoulders to meet the definition of a shotgun.

Replacing a pistol grip on a shotgun would be legal since most shotguns comes with a 20" barrel, however it must  also meet the 26" OAL,  It is still a "shotgun",  furthermore, if it fails to meet the 26" OAL it would be a Short Barrel Shotgun (SBS).

There is a  separate class of firearms called the Pistol Grip Only (PGO). These leave the manufacture with a pistol grip and NO stock. They are also legal in hawaii,  but are NOT considered  a "shotgun"  by definition; as they were never designed to be fired from the shoulders. PGO transfer on the 4473 as "other" and not under a  rifle nor a pistol. They normally come with a barrel at least 14.5" and meet the OAL of 26". The PGO's are not NFA, a shotgun, long gun, nor pistol, they are consider a firearm under the BATF.

An AOW which is NFA will not comply with any of the definitions as mentioned above. A shotgun can never be converted into an AOW, since it was manufactured with a stock thus the term SBS. An AOW must start with a virgin receiver or a PGO, in which a stock was NEVER installed.


Again Hawaii does not define a shotgun, thus the federal definition is used.



« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 08:28:17 PM by suka »

suka

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2015, 08:36:01 PM »
Pistol Grips and Shotguns
Firearms with pistol grips attached:
The definition of a shotgun under the GCA, 18 U.S.C.
§ 921(a)(5), is “a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and de- signed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosives to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or single projectile for each single pull of the trig- ger. Under the GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(29)(A), handgun means “a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to .....................A firearm with a pistol grip in lieu of the shoulder stock is not designed to be fired from the shoulder and, therefore, is not a shotgun. Since it is a firearm “other than a rifle or shotgun,” the purchaser must be 21 years of age or older. Additionally, interstate controls apply. The licensee and transferee must be residents of the same State.
Other questions raised pertain to entries made in the licensee’s required records with respect to firearm “type.” These entries should indicate the firearm type as “pistol grip firearm.”
Age RestRiction & inteRstAte tRAnsfeR RemindeRs
Licensees are reminded that firearm frames, receivers, and other firearms that are neither handguns nor long guns (rifles or shotguns) are considered “Other Firearms.” They cannot be sold or delivered by a licensee to any person under 21 years of age. Additionally, 18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3) states that a licensee shall not sell or deliver any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person who does not reside in the State in which the licensee’s place of business or activity is lo- cated; this restriction includes handguns, pistol grip firearms utilizing shotgun ammunition, and frames and receivers.


FFL Newsletters :

https://www.atf.gov/file/56446/download

eyeeatingfish

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 11:07:11 AM »
I think I see the confusion. A shotgun can exist as a pistol essentially under federal law even though not under state law. Putting a pistol grip on a long gun type shotgun is a violation of federal law it if ends up under the 26" overall length?

I have always wondered why the .410 shotshell gets away as a pistol whereas other shells don't.

suka

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 02:13:09 PM »
A shotgun can never be a "handgun" under federal laws because it has a smooth bore and the diameter is over 50 caliber. It can only be a NFA AOW (sporting)  or NFA DD (non sporting). Moreover, Once a rifle always a rifle. (shotgun)

 Hawaii law does not define this and  considers any firearm with a barrel under 16"  a pistol .


Both define the same type of firearm differently.

HRS = pistol  "Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition or any noxious gas." HRS 134-1

USC = handgun   “Handgun” is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.... 921(a)




you are correct on the 26" inch OAL
410 pistols are handguns with  a rifled bore and a bore diameter under 50 caliber , thus it is a "handgun" under both Federal and HRS.  A smooth bore would classify it as an AOW , a larger caliber would be  classify it as a DD

« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 07:41:30 PM by suka »

eyeeatingfish

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2015, 10:39:51 PM »
A shotgun can never be a "handgun" under federal laws because it has a smooth bore and the diameter is over 50 caliber. It can only be a NFA AOW (sporting)  or NFA DD (non sporting). Moreover, Once a rifle always a rifle. (shotgun)

 Hawaii law does not define this and  considers any firearm with a barrel under 16"  a pistol .


Both define the same type of firearm differently.

HRS = pistol  "Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition or any noxious gas." HRS 134-1

USC = handgun   “Handgun” is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.... 921(a)




you are correct on the 26" inch OAL
410 pistols are handguns with  a rifled bore and a bore diameter under 50 caliber , thus it is a "handgun" under both Federal and HRS.  A smooth bore would classify it as an AOW , a larger caliber would be  classify it as a DD

Ahh, I see, makes sense now.

So just putting a pistol grip on my legal shotgun violate a federal law even though the state law doesn't care? Mine currently has a stock equipped with a pistol grip but was thinking about getting just a plain pistol grip.

I have noticed that the HRS never really defines what a shotgun is, it just says it has to have an 18 inch barrel.

suka

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2015, 11:14:53 PM »
If your shotgun , reconfigured  ( after replacing a pistol grip w/o the stock ) it  is  still  legal if both the 18" barrel length and 26" overall  length can be met.
It is still "called" a shotgun, and doesn't change its classification.

suka

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2015, 11:34:10 PM »
All three below are shotguns as defined by  USC 921(a) federal laws.
18' inch Barrel
26' inch Overall Length




Below :

 Shotgun = Stock, 18" barrel, 26" OAL , sporting purpose

 Short Barrel Shotgun = Stock, Less than 18" Barrel, less than 26" OAL, sporting propose

 Rifle = Stock, 16' Barrel, 26" OAL, less than 50 cal

 AOW = No Stock, Less than 18" Barrel, Less than 26" OAL , sporting purpose

 Firearm = No Stock, Less than 18" Barrel, 26" OAL , No caliber clarification



 


« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 11:49:02 PM by suka »

omnigun

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2016, 11:09:33 AM »
Unfortunately there is no way to own a silencer in hawaii :(

lpck45

Re: How to get NFA firearms in Hawaii. (LEGAL)
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2021, 02:31:02 PM »
So I can't bring my suppressors over from the mainland? That sucks :(