Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania (Read 12768 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2018, 08:40:30 PM »
So the guy went to HPD to get his gun back after the cops confiscated it off his brother during a DV dispute. I wonder how long the guy had been in Hawaii with his gun? The cops were more concerned about ownership than the fact it was unregistered? Makes me wonder what happened after you left.
Maybe he got a summons in the mail later on. But it seemed the guys at the counter just wanted proof and was gonna let him come back.

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2ahavvaii

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2018, 03:38:36 PM »
no need for locked box.  any commercially produced case for firearms is ok.  I've used gun socks before.  I've even brought new firearms in their original card board boxes as they come from the factory, etc.

2ahavvaii

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2018, 03:41:40 PM »
for proof of purchase XX years ago, if you bought direct from a manufacturer, they might have info on the purchase if you pay them to pull the serial.

- not suggesting this, but to get around the BS of not having paperwork, if you know someone on the mainland,  they could write you up an invoice for the firearm, that is your proof of ownership.  you could even register it in your state first for further paperwork. Even better if they're a FFL.   Probably not exactly correct legally .

2ahavvaii

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2018, 03:43:39 PM »
if some of your firearms aren't squeaky clean, definitely do not bring them to HPD.  They'll likely get taken away, and you'll likely get harrassed for it. 

Dont bring mags or clips to the police station, it's totally unnecessary and can only cause problems for yourself and them.

2ahavvaii

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2018, 03:46:30 PM »
I've never heard of a penalty being levied for failure to meet the 5 day deadline within a reasonable timeframe. That part of the process gives HPD 5 days to wait before they try giving you a gentle reminder.

The law says "Any person who violates section 134-3(a) shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor".

As with most laws, it's only illegal if you get caught.   :geekdanc:

Since there's no transfer of ownership when bringing from out of state, there's nothing to alert HPD you need to register your guns.

It would take you getting the attention of HPD for some other reason for them to have a reason to check on the gun registration.

In other words, you won't lose your right to have guns if you forget to register.

As always, follow the law.  It's not worth the cost and potential consequences to employment, clearances, and so on to take a chance on not getting caught.

i'm not suggesting it, but i've registered handguns outside the permit window before.  within a reasonable timeframe as you mentioned.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2018, 04:38:03 PM »
i'm not suggesting it, but i've registered handguns outside the permit window before.  within a reasonable timeframe as you mentioned.

Many on here have posted they, too, were not prompt in registering.  Some said they received a call from HPD within a week or two of them picking up the firearm to remind them.

They are just glad to get people to comply.  If you wander in with a gun that's 6 months delinquent in registering, I don't think they'll do much more than give you grief and your completed registration.  If they want to be difficult, I guess they could tell you your permit for the handgun expired, and you'll have to reapply for another while they hold onto the pistol.

That's my impression.  I always try to meet the deadlines.   I may have been past the 5 days once by a day or two.  Not a single word was mentioned about that.  YMMV
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

Inspector

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2018, 08:18:49 AM »
Many on here have posted they, too, were not prompt in registering.  Some said they received a call from HPD within a week or two of them picking up the firearm to remind them.

They are just glad to get people to comply.  If you wander in with a gun that's 6 months delinquent in registering, I don't think they'll do much more than give you grief and your completed registration.  If they want to be difficult, I guess they could tell you your permit for the handgun expired, and you'll have to reapply for another while they hold onto the pistol.

That's my impression.  I always try to meet the deadlines.   I may have been past the 5 days once by a day or two.  Not a single word was mentioned about that.  YMMV
I am one of those that the HPD called when I forgot to register a gun I bought from an LGS. It was approximately a month to 6 weeks after I purchased the gun when they called me. I’m getting forgetful in my old age.
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2ahavvaii

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2018, 01:19:12 PM »
Many on here have posted they, too, were not prompt in registering.  Some said they received a call from HPD within a week or two of them picking up the firearm to remind them.

They are just glad to get people to comply.  If you wander in with a gun that's 6 months delinquent in registering, I don't think they'll do much more than give you grief and your completed registration.  If they want to be difficult, I guess they could tell you your permit for the handgun expired, and you'll have to reapply for another while they hold onto the pistol.

That's my impression.  I always try to meet the deadlines.   I may have been past the 5 days once by a day or two.  Not a single word was mentioned about that.  YMMV

I think from a technical standpoint, you're in possession of an unregistered firearm, felony offense.

I think the cops at firearms personally dont care if youre kinda late.  The brass probably does care, but they're not going to make a huge issue out of it.  They already got what they want, a way to track (and chase down) the individuals making the purchase.

If they were to start busting people trying to register their handguns, but a little late, they'd be opening up a whole can of worms where their overall restrictive policy will be examined and opened to legal challenges.  Much like some of the cases winding through CA courts. It is smarter for them to create a PITA policy (to discourage gun ownership),  then choosing not to be harsh in its enforcement otherwise they'll be inviting a lot of anger and lawsuits.


macsak

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2018, 01:56:42 PM »
I think from a technical standpoint, you're in possession of an unregistered firearm, felony offense.

I think the cops at firearms personally dont care if youre kinda late.  The brass probably does care, but they're not going to make a huge issue out of it.  They already got what they want, a way to track (and chase down) the individuals making the purchase.

If they were to start busting people trying to register their handguns, but a little late, they'd be opening up a whole can of worms where their overall restrictive policy will be examined and opened to legal challenges.  Much like some of the cases winding through CA courts. It is smarter for them to create a PITA policy (to discourage gun ownership),  then choosing not to be harsh in its enforcement otherwise they'll be inviting a lot of anger and lawsuits.

I think in the last year or two they made a law reducing or eliminating the penalty for not bringing in for the last step of registration
the purpose was so that people would still bring them in when they "forgot", because they did not want them to fear it would be seized or they would be arrested

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2018, 03:36:06 PM »
I think in the last year or two they made a law reducing or eliminating the penalty for not bringing in for the last step of registration
the purpose was so that people would still bring them in when they "forgot", because they did not want them to fear it would be seized or they would be arrested

Correct.  When the legislature expanded registration requirements to include all visitors/tourists bringing firearms, they reduced the penalty to a petty misdemeanor.

As I posted already here, "The law says "Any person who violates section 134-3(a) shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor". "

Section 134-3(a) applies to guns being brought into Hawaii.  Since this thread is about moving to Hawaii, I posted that section.

Section 134-3(b) applies to acquiring a firearm pursuant to section 134-2 (i.e. buying/transferring a firearm under the Permit to Acquire rules). 

Both are petty misdemeanors, but a resident can have his weapon confiscated and destroyed if he waits another 5 days after notification and fails to register.

Quote
§134-17  Penalties.

(a) ... [snip] ...

(b)  Any person who violates section 134-3(a) shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor.

(c)  Any person who violates section 134-2, 134-4, 134-10, 134-15, or 134-16(a) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. 
Any person who violates section 134-3(b) shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor and the firearm shall be confiscated
as contraband and disposed of, if the firearm is not registered within five days of the person receiving notice of the violation.

[L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1994, c 204, §9]
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

macsak

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2018, 03:37:44 PM »
Correct.  When the legislature expanded registration requirements to include all visitors/tourists bringing firearms, they reduced the penalty to a petty misdemeanor.

As I posted already here, "The law says "Any person who violates section 134-3(a) shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor". "

Section 134-3(a) applies to guns being brought into Hawaii.  Since this thread is about moving to Hawaii, I posted that section.

Section 134-3(b) applies to acquiring a firearm pursuant to section 134-2 (i.e. buying/transferring a firearm under the Permit to Acquire rules). 

Both are petty misdemeanors, but a resident can have his weapon confiscated and destroyed if he waits another 5 days after notification and fails to register.

ah, ok, mahalo for the clarification

2ahavvaii

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2018, 10:58:40 AM »
I think in the last year or two they made a law reducing or eliminating the penalty for not bringing in for the last step of registration
the purpose was so that people would still bring them in when they "forgot", because they did not want them to fear it would be seized or they would be arrested

Ah didn't know that. thanks

mrgaf

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2021, 01:21:33 PM »
You have my condolences....  ???
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

DocMercy

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2021, 03:40:11 PM »
My mother-in-law was born and raised in PA. Wonderful state, with smart, good-hearted people. With regard to proving ownership of a weapon directly or indirectly coming from PA, it is worthwhile checking this FAQ:

https://www.pafoa.org/law/#:~:text=Owning%20Firearms,6111.4%20(Registration%20of%20firearms).

Quote
Do I have to register my firearms in Pennsylvania?
No, in fact in Pennsylvania it is actually illegal for any government or police agency to keep a registry of firearms per 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4 (Registration of firearms). If you legally possess bring your firearms into the Pennsylvania or come into possession of the firearms legally, no further action is required.

It should be noted however that all transfers of handguns in Pennsylvania are required to go through the Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) and as such the Pennsylvania State Police keep a "Sales Database" of all handguns purchased within the Commonwealth. While almost any casual observer can see that this database clearly violates the spirit of 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4 (Registration of firearms), in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court agreed with the Pennsylvania State Police that because the database is not a complete record of all handgun ownership (as people bringing handguns into the state do not have to register them), it does not.

Thus, the germane question is whether one of more guns were acquired in PA when PICS was in force. Hope the OP saved the paperwork from these transactions. Flapp: do you know if there is reciprocity between HI and PA with regard to safety training? Booking a training session here is not convenient or cheap. The lowest cost course was given by HDF in August for $180. The higher cost courses can be given inside an indoor range, which is good because you do not have to travel to an outdoor range. I would attempt to book such a course asap, if required.

Once you get to the registration part, bring plenty of quarters for parking in the HPD garage. Some meters have broken credit card interfaces. Technically you cannot part in the garage before 7:45 AM, but most people still do, just to get on line early. Don't worry about the vagrants who sleep on the benches, or near the elevator. They appear to be harmless.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2021, 04:22:09 PM »
My mother-in-law was born and raised in PA. Wonderful state, with smart, good-hearted people. With regard to proving ownership of a weapon directly or indirectly coming from PA, it is worthwhile checking this FAQ:

https://www.pafoa.org/law/#:~:text=Owning%20Firearms,6111.4%20(Registration%20of%20firearms).

Thus, the germane question is whether one of more guns were acquired in PA when PICS was in force. Hope the OP saved the paperwork from these transactions. Flapp: do you know if there is reciprocity between HI and PA with regard to safety training? Booking a training session here is not convenient or cheap. The lowest cost course was given by HDF in August for $180. The higher cost courses can be given inside an indoor range, which is good because you do not have to travel to an outdoor range. I would attempt to book such a course asap, if required.

Once you get to the registration part, bring plenty of quarters for parking in the HPD garage. Some meters have broken credit card interfaces. Technically you cannot part in the garage before 7:45 AM, but most people still do, just to get on line early. Don't worry about the vagrants who sleep on the benches, or near the elevator. They appear to be harmless.

Hawaii does accept certain out-of-state safety courses when applying for a pistol permit to acquire.

Quote
(g)  Effective July 1, 1995, no person shall be issued a permit under this section for the acquisition
of a pistol or revolver unless the person, at any time prior to the issuance of the permit, has completed:

     (1)  An approved hunter education course as authorized under section 183D-28;

     (2)  A firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement
agency of the State or of any county;

     (3)  A firearms safety or training course offered to law enforcement officers, security guards, investigators,
deputy sheriffs, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement by a state or county
law enforcement agency; or

     (4)  A firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state certified or National Rifle Association
certified firearms instructor or a certified military firearms instructor that provides, at a minimum, a total of at least
two hours of firing training at a firing range and a total of at least four hours of classroom instruction, which may
include a video, that focuses on:

          (A)  The safe use, handling, and storage of firearms and firearm safety in the home; and

          (B)  Education on the firearm laws of the State.


          An affidavit signed by the certified firearms instructor who conducted or taught the course, providing the name,
address, and phone number of the instructor and attesting to the successful completion of the course by the applicant
shall constitute evidence of certified successful completion under this paragraph.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0002.htm

Quote
§183D-28  Hunter education program. (a)  The department shall establish a hunter education program to provide
instruction in hunter safety, principles of conservation, and sportsmanship.  Upon successful completion of the program,
the department shall issue to the graduate a hunter education certificate which shall be valid for the life of the person. 
This certification shall be rescinded by judicial action upon the conviction of a wildlife and/or firearms violation.  No person
shall be eligible for a hunting license unless the person possesses a valid hunter education certificate or meets the
requirements for exemption provided in subsection (b)(2), and is either:
...
 (2)  Has successfully completed a course or program of hunter education and safety that is approved by the International
Hunter Education Association and meets the requirements of Chapter 12 of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service
Federal Aid Manual, as revised; provided that the person shows satisfactory proof in the form of a certificate, wallet card,
or other document issued by a state, province, or country evidencing successful completion of the course or program;

...
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0183D/HRS_0183D-0028.htm

So, if you have a military firearms training affidavit that explicitly states the parameters of the course satisfies Hawaii's minimum requirements for training, or possess a Hunter's Education Certificate from any state that meets the Hawaii requirements, you won't have to take another class.

Having said that, if you don't have either of those, and you can't find a class, the online Hawaii Hunter's Education Course is a great option.  Take the class and test online for a small fee, and you're all done.  The course is free, but you're paying for the online convenience.  There's no charge for the in-person class IF you could sign up.

Those are the exceptions to having to take a Hawaii NRA handgun safety class as far as I know.  If anyone else knows of another way, hopefully they'll add to this list.

The thing that always intrigues me is, with the inconsistency and volume of state laws, you pretty much need a home-state course if the law says you need to be instructed in "state firearm laws."  One major inconsistency is the NRA course requires live fire, whereas the Hunter's Ed course does not.  The people making up the rules are not interested in making firearm owners safer.  They only want to create hurdles, and in some circumstances (like accepting the Hunter's Ed Certificate for PTA) they abandon all logic and reasoning.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 04:23:12 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

macsak

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2021, 04:36:59 PM »
the "logic" behind the hunter safety requirement is that having to pay for a course to acquire handguns is denying someone their second amendment right because they cannot afford to take a safety class...

Hawaii does accept certain out-of-state safety courses when applying for a pistol permit to acquire.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0002.htm
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0183D/HRS_0183D-0028.htm

So, if you have a military firearms training affidavit that explicitly states the parameters of the course satisfies Hawaii's minimum requirements for training, or possess a Hunter's Education Certificate from any state that meets the Hawaii requirements, you won't have to take another class.

Having said that, if you don't have either of those, and you can't find a class, the online Hawaii Hunter's Education Course is a great option.  Take the class and test online for a small fee, and you're all done.  The course is free, but you're paying for the online convenience.  There's no charge for the in-person class IF you could sign up.

Those are the exceptions to having to take a Hawaii NRA handgun safety class as far as I know.  If anyone else knows of another way, hopefully they'll add to this list.

The thing that always intrigues me is, with the inconsistency and volume of state laws, you pretty much need a home-state course if the law says you need to be instructed in "state firearm laws."  One major inconsistency is the NRA course requires live fire, whereas the Hunter's Ed course does not.  The people making up the rules are not interested in making firearm owners safer.  They only want to create hurdles, and in some circumstances (like accepting the Hunter's Ed Certificate for PTA) they abandon all logic and reasoning.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Moving to Honolulu from Pennsylvania
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2021, 05:01:27 PM »
the "logic" behind the hunter safety requirement is that having to pay for a course to acquire handguns is denying someone their second amendment right because they cannot afford to take a safety class...

That's what we call a forced work-around.  It's the LEAST the state can do to not get sued while still making all other options as onerous and draconian as possible.

A responsible gun buyer/owner wanting to improve their safety knowledge would opt for the NRA course with live fire.  But, the state makes the less effective (my opinion) Hunter's Ed course less expensive (or free), more convenient (online), and easier to complete (no live fire). 

If they really wanted to do it right, they'd have zero training requirements for gun ownership, then require classroom training and live fire TESTING to get a Concealed Carry permit (like NV).  Of course, issuing said permits would be the long pole in that tent!

Right now, you get an affidavit for attendance.  There's no live fire test using minimum standards to pass.  You pay, show up and get the affidavit.  No proficiency standards exist in the law.
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.