Just keep in mind with pepper spray that it doesn't necessarily cause the bad guy to immediately stop what he was doing and grab his face.  In actuality, even with heavy-duty OC like the police and military use, it takes anywhere from almost instantly to ten seconds or so for the pepper spray to start to burn.  Even once it does start to burn, a determined bad guy may still be able to function at nearly 100% capacity.  I'm not knocking OC or telling you there's no point; there is.  OC spray is Gawd-awful stuff to have in your eyes, and it would probably convince me to look for a credit card elsewhere.  Just make sure you get the good stuff, oleo-resin capsicum (sp?), in the strongest concentration you can get.  Then, if you have to use it, spray it and haul ass; don't stand there like those idiotic movies and expect the guy to instantly start shrieking and scratching at his face. 

Quote from: colorado_shooter_dh on August 09, 2011, 04:09:02 PM

Quote from: Kingkeoni on August 06, 2011, 06:25:32 PM

Go out and buy a king size canister of pepper spray and when you confront them on your property, if they become aggressive or violent, hose them down with as much of the pepper spray as you can.

You are authorized to use force to protect life, limb and your property but you are NOT authorized to use deadly force.

Believe me, I yearn for cowboy days myself.
The days of yesterday where if someone tries to steal your "horse" you solve the problem right then and there.
But this is not the time or state for such pleasantries.

I'm a noob to the forum, please be gentle... I thought pepper spray was illegal here? I joined this forum for these topics in this thread!

It isn't illegal (as far as I know), some shops here sell it; most buyers though use it for when they're walking or with their dog and another dog tries to attack...although I'm sure some women also carry it when they go to the clubs.

Stun guns are illegal in Hawaii though.

Stun guns are illegal but pepper spray is not. It is legal to carry and use.

Just keep in mind with pepper spray that it doesn't necessarily cause the bad guy to immediately stop what he was doing and grab his face.  In actuality, even with heavy-duty OC like the police and military use, it takes anywhere from almost instantly to ten seconds or so for the pepper spray to start to burn.  Even once it does start to burn, a determined bad guy may still be able to function at nearly 100% capacity.  I'm not knocking OC or telling you there's no point; there is.  OC spray is Gawd-awful stuff to have in your eyes, and it would probably convince me to look for a credit card elsewhere.  Just make sure you get the good stuff, oleo-resin capsicum (sp?), in the strongest concentration you can get.  Then, if you have to use it, spray it and haul ass; don't stand there like those idiotic movies and expect the guy to instantly start shrieking and scratching at his face.

This.

And it really does suck to get sprayed.  Having got a mouthful twice during ASF, IT BLOWS!

Think sucking off a diesel truck tail pipe while putting you eyeballs on a skillet!

Awesome, thanks for the replies. I thought I read that both stun guns and pepper spray was illegal. I will get some for my GF, if nothing else! And yes, I learned a loooooong time ago, whatever happens in the movies does not work in the real world, ha!

Quote from: Cougar8045 on August 09, 2011, 08:40:09 PM

Just keep in mind with pepper spray that it doesn't necessarily cause the bad guy to immediately stop what he was doing and grab his face.  In actuality, even with heavy-duty OC like the police and military use, it takes anywhere from almost instantly to ten seconds or so for the pepper spray to start to burn.  Even once it does start to burn, a determined bad guy may still be able to function at nearly 100% capacity.  I'm not knocking OC or telling you there's no point; there is.  OC spray is Gawd-awful stuff to have in your eyes, and it would probably convince me to look for a credit card elsewhere.  Just make sure you get the good stuff, oleo-resin capsicum (sp?), in the strongest concentration you can get.  Then, if you have to use it, spray it and haul ass; don't stand there like those idiotic movies and expect the guy to instantly start shrieking and scratching at his face.

This.

And it really does suck to get sprayed.  Having got a mouthful twice during ASF, IT BLOWS!

Think sucking off a diesel truck tail pipe while putting you eyeballs on a skillet!

Yes, I should point out that the one time I got sprayed for training will probably go down in history as the single worst thing that has ever happened to me.  Our instructor, a grizzled old retired Recon Marine with like 28 years in, came over while we were attempting to recover and says, with his trademark raspy death-voice, "Obviously I can't give you men real-world experience what it's like to get shot, but I can tell you that if you do catch a round, you'll be in a similar amount of pain to what you're experiencing right now.  The takeaway is that you can still function if you're sprayed or shot."  I was outraged that someone who knew what OC felt like would knowingly spray another human being with it!  lol 

TLDR: I agree with Vooduchikn, and I don't want to give the impression that it's not effective, because it is effective.  It just may not immediately stop the bad guy from doing what he's doing, so don't just spray and stand there wondering why he isn't rolling around on the ground.

OC = ass whooping if they know how to control it.  You basically power through that shit with rage. lol

OC = ass whooping if they know how to control it.  You basically power through that shit with rage. lol

Hahahahahahahahahaha! 

Last i checked, Cattle Prods are availible OTC here in Hawaii......  I think it's legal to own too.

Years ago, I saw a short(about a foot long) one at a farm supply store for $30.

No idea what price is today.

Cattle prods might work, depending on how much time your bad guy spent on the farm.  Unfortunately, you can power through cattle prods with rage, too.  (I chuckle every time I think of phrase, "Power through that shit with rage". )

Cattle prods might work, depending on how much time your bad guy spent on the farm.  Unfortunately, you can power through cattle prods with rage, too.  (I chuckle every time I think of phrase, "Power through that shit with rage". )

 I just powered through a bowel movement with rage.
    

The recent stabbing in Waikiki is a good illustration of use of force to protect property. The prosecutors have since declined to prosecute the suspect and he was released with no charges. Basically two men stole his backpack, he chased them down to their car and confronted them. A fight ensued and he stabbed both, one fatally.  So he confronted two people taking his property and ended up using deadly force. Exact details are unknown so I don't know what justified the use of the deadly force but if the prosecutors declined to prosecute then we have an illustration to show how deadly force can be justified stemming from the protection of property. We do know he confronted two individuals and I believe both of them attacked him. So what we do have is him being outnumbered, there are many factors that go into justifying deadly force and being outnumbered would be one of them.
http://www.khon2.com/news/local/story/20-year-old-man-dies-after-stabbing-in-Waikiki/DxKIS69Z_UqxQuJIY3L3ow.cspx

Cattle prods might work, depending on how much time your bad guy spent on the farm.  Unfortunately, you can power through cattle prods with rage, too.  (I chuckle every time I think of phrase, "Power through that shit with rage". )

A cattle prod will hurt like heck I am sure but it will not immobilize. The taser is effective because the probes spread out and run electricity across major muscle groups in the body. If you get the probes close I have seen them pulled out by a guy getting tasered. A stun without the probes hurts but only will immobilize a small section of the body like maybe a forearm.

..................Yes, I should point out that the one time I got sprayed for training will probably go down in history as the single worst thing that has ever happened to me. .....................

While I am quite sure pepper spray sucks, wait until you hit 50 and have to get a roto-rooter job.

TASERs work by interrupting the nervous system with high voltage, low amp electrical charge. This causes involuntary muscular contractions and, essentially, paralysis. A cattle prod does not produce the high voltage and essentially causes localized pain, which in turn motivates cows to move away. A cattle prod, besides requiring you to be in close proximity to use, will not incapacitate an attacker. 

While I am quite sure pepper spray sucks, wait until you hit 50 and have to get a roto-rooter job.

Haha that one gave me a laugh

TASERs work by interrupting the nervous system with high voltage, low amp electrical charge. This causes involuntary muscular contractions and, essentially, paralysis.

You forgot pain.. copious amounts of it.  What happens when the involuntary muscle contractions occur, is best as I can describe - a sensation similar to having a leg cramp... that effects all of your voluntary muscle groups, at the same time.  as long as the juice is on and the probes  are secured, there is no raging though it. (At least I couldn't) tried, but couldnt get anything to work well enough to do anything other than flop around on the deck and grunt like a landed humuhumunukunukua'pua'a

Dumbass that I am, I volunteered to get tasered at a less leathal demo I attended during my college days (administration of justice major) I thought it would be pretty cool. It was not.  Even the probes suck... gotta pull them out with pliers, they are barbed.

Regarding laws in Hawaii.

Advice please.

Scenario: A family member calls me for help, because of a robbery in progress, and possible assault.
She lives a few streets away.

Question: After calling police, can I bring my firearm with me over to her house, to help the situation

Thanks, in advance

Alan A.

Regarding laws in Hawaii.

Advice please.

Scenario: A family member calls me for help, because of a robbery in progress, and possible assault.
She lives a few streets away.

Question: After calling police, can I bring my firearm with me over to her house, to help the situation

Thanks, in advance

Alan A.

Nope.

In Hawaii you're allowed to have your firearm in your home, business or place of sojourn.

To get a call that someone is in trouble and run to their house with a gun is a recipe for disaster, in Hawaii.

Regarding laws in Hawaii.

Advice please.

Scenario: A family member calls me for help, because of a robbery in progress, and possible assault.
She lives a few streets away.

Question: After calling police, can I bring my firearm with me over to her house, to help the situation

Thanks, in advance

Alan A.

KK is correct.  The applicable HRS is 703-304, read away.

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm

Mahalo, All!!

Alan A.

Nope.

In Hawaii you're allowed to have your firearm in your home, business or place of sojourn.

To get a call that someone is in trouble and run to their house with a gun is a recipe for disaster, in Hawaii.

Thanks for this answer, KingKeoni.  This would be an easy mistake to make for most firearm owners who don't know the law.

A follow up hypothetical.... If you (Joe citizen, non-LEO) were invited by someone to sleep over their place and you had your firearm with you.  If that someone was in trouble, would there be any issues with being there and using the firearm in self defense assuming there was a justifiable use of deadly force?