First 1911 in 45 (Read 37171 times)

changemyoil66

First 1911 in 45
« on: April 16, 2021, 09:47:12 AM »
So been sitting on this for a while, but my next firearm will be something in 45.  I was originally set on the SIG Scorpion.  But after reading more about 1911's and their maintenance schedule, I'm on the drawing board again.  So now I'm looking into a HKUSP instead.  Not a fan of the HK45 due to it being to similar to the VP9.  Not a fan of the FN45 or M&P45.  Glock21 might be a possibility.  But looks is also a factor.  1911's just look cool and so do USP's. HK MK23 is out of my price range (see below).

I plan on using the 1911 for skill builders/classes. So she won't be a safe queen.  So spending $1200 or so is what I'm willing to spend and not have an issue with it being a tool.  If I spend say $3k, then I won't want to get her dirty or scratched up.

So correct me if I'm wrong (still researching)

1) Many post/vids of 1911 mention around 5K mark some maintenance will be needed.  Mainly the extractor.  Compared to my VP9, I have probably double that and no extraction issues.  HK says for USP, 10K is still g2g.

2) Heard the 1911 mags don't last as long as other mags.  And can't just replace spring, need to buy new mag. 

3) 1911 does come with only 7rds, compared to USP or others that can come with 10rd mags without having to buy a mag extension.  So that's added cost per mag. 

So what's everyones thoughts.  Again, this pistol will be a workhorse. I won't add a RDS,but probably a fiber optic and WML.

ren

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2021, 09:51:53 AM »
the trigger in a 1911 is another important factor to consider.  Its a straght pull back
a good smith can work on a 1911 for less. I paid $850 for a new fitted Kart barrel, slide to frame fit, trigger tune and new sights.
I sent it to Dave Salyer and got it back ina couple of weeks.

I read many good reviews on the Springfield Range Officer which can be had for less than $1k.
A 1911 can be accurized but other pistols you mentioned dont have a history of accurizing.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 09:57:54 AM by ren »
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changemyoil66

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2021, 10:28:29 AM »
the trigger in a 1911 is another important factor to consider.  Its a straght pull back
a good smith can work on a 1911 for less. I paid $850 for a new fitted Kart barrel, slide to frame fit, trigger tune and new sights.
I sent it to Dave Salyer and got it back ina couple of weeks.

I read many good reviews on the Springfield Range Officer which can be had for less than $1k.
A 1911 can be accurized but other pistols you mentioned dont have a history of accurizing.

I'll check out the RO.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2021, 12:09:17 PM »
The quality of the 1911 is largely a function of price.  The Springfield Professional 1911 that the FBI and HRT (Hostage Rescue Team) issue has a civilian MSRP of $3,363.00,  But the tolerances on it are so tight, it takes some breaking-in just to be able to rack the slide easily!

My 1911 is the Sig Nightmare.  I chose it because it takes the standard 1911 design and improves some of the ergonomics.  Plus, the black and silver colors just appeal to me.  Comes with an 8rd mag and 7rd mag.  I also got a free soft Sig pistol case at the time.  I added a few Wilson Combat Elite 8rd mags.



https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series-handguns/custom-handguns/1911-professional-45-acp-handgun

Hickok45 goes into great detail on the specs, close tolerances and accuracy of the Springfield Professional.  If $1200 is your budget, then get the most gun with the best reviews you can in that price range.

If this is for range shooting, look at one with adjustable sights.  You should probably try out several 1911s from other owners or rent them at a range if they have.  So many out there, and your preferences may not be similar to others.

Truth, when not sought after, rarely comes to light.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I need some new conspiracy theories. All my old ones turned out to be true.

Hamburger Helper only works if the hamburger really wants to be helped.

stangzilla

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2021, 12:38:25 PM »
I have a loaded operator
https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series-handguns/1911-loaded-handguns/1911-loaded-operator-45-acp-handgun/
Mine is a Long Beach Operator, essentially a Loaded Operator. Made for the Long Beach SWAT team. I think they went back to a Glock a few years ago
I also have the regular RO Operator, and a RO Elite Target. All in 45acp, what a 1911 should be.  ;)
The Elite Target and Loaded Operator both have tight tolerances. Need several hundred rounds to break in. The Loaded still needs a bushing wrench to field strip. Someone with weak hands could never rack it brand new. But I'm sure you could handle it no problem. Cocking hamner first then rack the slide made it easier at first. Now it's much smoother.
The regular RO Operator also runs flawlessly. I can rack it just like any striker fire. Its much easier to rack than the other 2 more expensive ones
If I were to run one of them for drills and beat on it, I'd use the regular RO Operator but the trigger and accuracy is better on the Loaded Operator
Loaded Operator might just make your budget, maybe a hundred more or so
1911's are cool. Nothing says America quite like a 1911  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 12:58:49 PM by stangzilla »

stangzilla

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2021, 12:39:46 PM »
The quality of the 1911 is largely a function of price.  The Springfield Professional 1911 that the FBI and HRT (Hostage Rescue Team) issue has a civilian MSRP of $3,363.00,  But the tolerances on it are so tight, it takes some breaking-in just to be able to rack the slide easily!

My 1911 is the Sig Nightmare.  I chose it because it takes the standard 1911 design and improves some of the ergonomics.  Plus, the black and silver colors just appeal to me.  Comes with an 8rd mag and 7rd mag.  I also got a free soft Sig pistol case at the time.  I added a few Wilson Combat Elite 8rd mags.



https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series-handguns/custom-handguns/1911-professional-45-acp-handgun

Hickok45 goes into great detail on the specs, close tolerances and accuracy of the Springfield Professional.  If $1200 is your budget, then get the most gun with the best reviews you can in that price range.

If this is for range shooting, look at one with adjustable sights.  You should probably try out several 1911s from other owners or rent them at a range if they have.  So many out there, and your preferences may not be similar to others.



Shot my friends Sig Nightmare a few times and it shoots great!

Flapp_Jackson

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2021, 01:30:17 PM »
Shot my friends Sig Nightmare a few times and it shoots great!

I have no complaints with my Nightmare.  I bought it online from Grab-a-Gun when they still shipped here.  Cost me $825 plus $25 FFL.  Regular price was around $1100.

If I remember correctly, Sig was running a special at the time for a free additional magazine plus the pistol rug/case.  That added another $50 in value, essentially dropping the gun's price to $775. 

I bought the Wilson Combat Elite 8rd mags at MidwayUSA using my birthday discount.  Reg: $34.95.  Discount price: $30.18@

As for springs and followers, I guess it may depend on the brand magazine you buy.  Wilson Follower and Spring sets are available for the mags I have.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016671166?pid=635837

Since I have both Sig and Wilson mags, I can test swapping the internals to see if Wilson springs and followers fit the Sig mags.  I have a feeling they will.  I'll check that later when I have the motivation to walk into the next room!   :sleeping:
Truth, when not sought after, rarely comes to light.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I need some new conspiracy theories. All my old ones turned out to be true.

Hamburger Helper only works if the hamburger really wants to be helped.

jc2721

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2021, 01:39:26 PM »
Availability is important, unless you are willing to wait an unspecified amount of time to get a specific model.

The trigger break is the most important part of shooting any pistol well, in my opinion. Sights come second.

Mechanically, safety is paramount--basically all of the mechanical safeties on the 1911 of your choice should work properly.

Reliability is also extremely important--a 1911 can have a fantastic trigger, it can group its shots phenomenally well and be beautifully finished, but if it jams once every magazine full it'll be extremely frustrating to shoot.

Lots of people buy "boutique" guns for the bragging rights but they don't (or can't) shoot worth a damn.

I personally like "sleepers," guns that may not look like much but are totally reliable, safe and shoot "lights out," as they say.  It took me a long time to find those guns and I won't sell them.

To me, it sounds like you have a pretty good plan--spend +/- 1k on a quality piece and shoot it.

Resist the urge to spend $ on frills or cosmetics and put the $ into more ammo for range time.

Once you've gotten to the point where you can consistently hit the black, then start looking at mods--by then you'll know what you want/need.

As to make, I like Colt the best and most of my keepers are Colts.  To each their own.

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jc2721

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2021, 02:00:19 PM »
As to your questions:

1) basic 1911 maintainence is to replace the recoil and firing pin springs every 5000 rounds or so.  In my opinion, that's not a hard and fast rule.  If you've shot 5000 +/- rounds through your pistol you'll probably form your own opinion on maintainence by then.

I don't like the shok-buffs--dubious function and they seem to fall apart and mess up the insides when you least expect it.

Extractor tension is one of those things where you adjust it when it needs it.  There are many variables involved, so if you can get Kuhnhausen's book on the 1911 you'll be way ahead of the game.

2) magazines should be considered consumable--eventually something will break or wear out.  1911 magazines are readily available and generally not too expensive.  Good quality, reliable magazines like the Wilson 47s are worth the money. 

Mainsprings in the 1911 pattern magazines are replaceable, you just have to know how to do it.  By the time the mainspring wears out, the follower or feed lips will have worn so maybe it will be time to replace the whole thing

3) 7 round capacity--most of the time you'll be shooting at the pistol range, which limits you to 5 rounds anyway, so...probably a non-issue.  If you're going to compete in the action bay games, then capacity matters.

Learn to hit the target with the first round and capacity will take care of itself, as long as you are not fighting off the zombie apocalypse.

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WTF?Shane

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2021, 02:21:51 PM »
There are 8 and 10rd mags.

drck1000

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2021, 04:01:06 PM »
My thoughts? Get what you want. Try before you buy if can. Even if no can, have fun trying.

I’ve shot the HK USP Full size, Mk23, Expert, etc. They are beasts of guns. If you haven’t shot them, highly suggest you try one. My first gun was a USP 40 Compact, but I shot the full size a lot at the range (where I eventually bought my HK) before going with the Compact.

I have 1911 9 and 45. I enjoy shooting them. Never shot the 45 in a class/skill builder, but would be fun. I used to enjoy shooting all different guns in fun/open shoots. Still do, but I’ve gone back to tried and true for both pistol and rifle.

While 1911 45s are surely fun, you’re the same Indian, no? Haha

I long wanted either a nice SA 1911 or even a Wilson or Nighthawk. But those suckers are $$$. A nice SA 1911 is likely the most realistic.

drck1000

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2021, 04:03:50 PM »
There are 8 and 10rd mags.
I have both for 9 and 45. The 10 round 45 mags are fun. Haha. I should try shooting single stack one of these days, but the “standard” mags of course.

OP is a bit bipolar tho. Looking at an expensive gun and arguably luxury gun, but whinging about cost of mags.

jc2721

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2021, 04:08:39 PM »
This afternoon SEC had some kind of HK 45 in stock--USP?  IDK, I don't look at plastic too much.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2021, 04:54:54 PM »
I have both for 9 and 45. The 10 round 45 mags are fun. Haha. I should try shooting single stack one of these days, but the “standard” mags of course.

OP is a bit bipolar tho. Looking at an expensive gun and arguably luxury gun, but whinging about cost of mags.

Next, he'll be whining about the cost of .45ACP ammo!   :rofl:

I stood next to a 1911 shooter at the Front Sight Defensive Handgun Course.  He needed one or two more loaded mags on him to get through each shooting session as I needed with 10rd mags.  Comparing the firepower of a 7+1 or 8+1 1911 to ANY Hawaii-compliant 10+1 handgun becomes such a close call it's almost moot.  I consider it a wash when factoring in the slightly higher degree of effectiveness of the 230g projectile vs. a 115g or 124g 9mm.

Of course, it's a matter of rounds on target -- whether or not you can shoot a .45ACP 1911 as well as your favorite 9mm with 10rd compliant mags.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 06:37:18 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
Truth, when not sought after, rarely comes to light.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I need some new conspiracy theories. All my old ones turned out to be true.

Hamburger Helper only works if the hamburger really wants to be helped.

stangzilla

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2021, 04:55:40 PM »
The Springfield Loaded operator I have has a flared magwell and takes 8 round mags. It can use 7 rounders but needs to be pushed in further. Will work fine but best with 8 round mags

So many good options for a 1911
I wouldn't go lower than a regular RO. Ronin looks nice too
I'm partial to Springfield 1911's 🤙

mrgaf

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2021, 06:00:57 PM »
Say what you may but I have a Kimber 191A1 stainless target. Bought in 1997 when Kimber first started making hand fitted, semi custom 1911’s. At present it has close to 10K thru it. Never a FTF, FTE, or any other mishaps. Accurate as hell too. Carried for 10 years while I hunted in Alaska along with my Ruger Alaskan 454 Casull. These days Kimber quality has fallen off though.....S.A. RO is a great firearm as well. Very happy with mine.... :shaka:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Flapp_Jackson

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2021, 07:00:14 PM »
Say what you may but I have a Kimber 191A1 stainless target. Bought in 1997 when Kimber first started making hand fitted, semi custom 1911’s. At present it has close to 10K thru it. Never a FTF, FTE, or any other mishaps. Accurate as hell too. Carried for 10 years while I hunted in Alaska along with my Ruger Alaskan 454 Casull. These days Kimber quality has fallen off though.....S.A. RO is a great firearm as well. Very happy with mine.... :shaka:

The last time I went to the range in NC, I noticed in the rental display case a really old looking Kimber.  The guy told me that gun has had a verified 1 million rounds plus fired through it, and only 1 spring ever needed changing.  Original barrel, slide, frame, trigger, etc.

He said Guinness Book would have the gun listed, but there's no existing category for that, and anyone else would have a tough time verifying the round counts.  Since the gun has always been a rental there, they know how many boxes of ammo were fired.

Several have asked to buy it, but they want to keep it as a working rental for as long as possible.

When I got back into shooting about 2012, Kimber was on my list of guns to consider.  But, as you said, the reviews had fallen way off.  Kimber just isn't the quality 1911 people came to trust and love decades before.  The expectations just aren't there for me anymore compared to price.

My friend bought a Ed Brown 1911 that a member here was selling about the 2013-2014.  So far, he's still in love with it.  I think it was in the $2,000 neighborhood, which was a bargain when you looked at the price new.
Truth, when not sought after, rarely comes to light.  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I need some new conspiracy theories. All my old ones turned out to be true.

Hamburger Helper only works if the hamburger really wants to be helped.

oldfart

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2021, 08:04:11 PM »
If you need help with your pistola, send me a pm....I know a guy.
If you need help feeding the beast send me a pm. I have some experience.
What, Me Worry?

dv808

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2021, 08:24:14 PM »
A well-used Colt 1911A1 from the '50's -'60's can be found pretty cheap.  Probably just replace the barrel and sights and you're all good.

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aaronc5362

Re: First 1911 in 45
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2021, 10:04:50 PM »
Kinda off topic but reading your original post, you were lookin at other options.

Have you considered p227 or p220? Or xdm competiton?

227 is very similar to 226, if ya held a 226.

Ive shot a xdm but not competition and it was pretty nice too.