wadcutters for self defense (Read 1322 times)

stangzilla

wadcutters for self defense
« on: November 15, 2021, 01:13:04 PM »
old school defensive ammo, the wadcutter.  maybe not the first choice in modern day defensive ammo, but still maybe better than FMJ.  has deep penetration and said to crush through bones instead of bouncing off like FMJ
I'm going to try and reload some 44mag with some wadcutters to duplicate the Buffalo Bore anti-personnel ammo
also going to load some 357's with the wadcutters

from Buffalo Bore's website.  their 44mag anti-personnel ammo.  hard cast lead wadcutters:
Quote
Anti-Personnel 44 Mag. Ammo
200 gr. Hard Cast Wadcutter @ 1,300 fps
20 Round Box

ITEM 4J

PRESS RELEASE FOR BUFFALO BORE 44 MAGNUM ANTI-PERSONNEL 200gr. HARD CAST WADCUTTER, LOW FLASH

This full profile wad cutter hard cast 44 magnum load was designed for the owners of 44 magnum firearms that choose to use those firearms for self-defense against humans. This load is specifically designed to permanently and quickly disable humans. The big flat wad cutter nose crushes living tissue, unlike mushroomed bullets that are slightly rounded on the nose and tend to slip and slide through living tissue. The crushing action of the flat nose keeps penetration straight and when penetration is straight, it is generally very deep—deep enough to obtain full penetration on the largest human from any angle. The hard cast nose will not deform at these velocities so the nose profile remains constant (flat, with a sharp shoulder) along with bullet path and terminal damage. Noted NYPD “stake out” officer Jim Cirillo used full profile wad cutters in his 38 SPL revolvers because they incapacitated his human targets with certainty. See our item 20D. (38 SPL) The light weight bullet at moderate velocity aids in low recoil for fast follow-up shots.

Unlike our other Anti-Personnel 44 magnum loads, this one utilizes a hard cast bullet, which will not mushroom and the resulting penetration is very deep. Expect at least 24 inches of straight-line penetration in mammalian tissue, thus allowing this load to also serve well for the small to medium sized game such as deer, black bear, and even elk. This hard cast construction keeps your bore from being substantially lead fouled even after hundreds of rounds.







ren

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2021, 01:22:39 PM »
cheaper too :thumbsup:
Deeds Not Words

oldfart

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2021, 01:59:11 PM »
In the 44 there's not much difference between a classic Keith swc and a full wadcutter design.
They are both nearly cylindrical in profile.
One of my all time favs is the saeco 441 mold which I got about 35 years ago.
I still have it but have it but don't use it much since I rarely bring out the 44 any more.
It's great on top of 20something grains of 296/H110.
What, Me Worry?

Inspector

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2021, 03:01:22 PM »
I load wadcutters in my 38’s all the time. They are extremely accurate at bunny fart speeds. Even out of my snub nose Model 10. And of course they make perfect holes in paper.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

stangzilla

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2021, 03:05:06 PM »
In the 44 there's not much difference between a classic Keith swc and a full wadcutter design.
They are both nearly cylindrical in profile.
One of my all time favs is the saeco 441 mold which I got about 35 years ago.
I still have it but have it but don't use it much since I rarely bring out the 44 any more.
It's great on top of 20something grains of 296/H110.

I have some Keith SWC too, 260 grains.  I like to load those too

oldfart

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2021, 03:06:38 PM »
...and then there is the classic backwards HBWC in the 38.
What, Me Worry?

stangzilla

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2021, 03:07:00 PM »
I load wadcutters in my 38’s all the time. They are extremely accurate at bunny fart speeds. Even out of my snub nose Model 10. And of course they make perfect holes in paper.

I want to load some lighter 357 wadcutters for my 627 snubnose.  full house 357mag out of that revolver is a little uncomfortable to shoot, so I'm thinking just slightly lighter load will be perfect

Inspector

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2021, 03:30:39 PM »
I want to load some lighter 357 wadcutters for my 627 snubnose.  full house 357mag out of that revolver is a little uncomfortable to shoot, so I'm thinking just slightly lighter load will be perfect
Not sure what powders you are using besides H110? Be careful when reducing loads using H110. It doesn’t take too well much below book values. It is a hard powder to ignite and has some over pressure issues as well. Not trying to tell you what to do so take my advice with a grain of salt. When I wanted what I call my mid range loads I went to some tried and true powders. I found that you can do some mid range loads using Unique. And Unique doesn’t have the ignition and over pressure issues that H110 has. It might not be heavy enough for you? But worth a try if you have other powders available.

See the load data I used to create my mid range loads.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

stangzilla

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2021, 03:56:38 PM »
Not sure what powders you are using besides H110? Be careful when reducing loads using H110. It doesn’t take too well much below book values. It is a hard powder to ignite and has some over pressure issues as well. Not trying to tell you what to do so take my advice with a grain of salt. When I wanted what I call my mid range loads I went to some tried and true powders. I found that you can do some mid range loads using Unique. And Unique doesn’t have the ignition and over pressure issues that H110 has. It might not be heavy enough for you? But worth a try if you have other powders available.

See the load data I used to create my mid range loads.

I only use the H110 for heavy fireball loads. for my larger barrel revolvers.  i always stay within the recommended load parameters  :thumbsup:  or sometimes i'll load H110 for the snubnosed revolvers if i want a wrist workout
for reduced I'll use AA#7 or #5, or I already loaded some with titegroup

jc2721

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2021, 04:01:26 PM »
I want to load some lighter 357 wadcutters for my 627 snubnose.  full house 357mag out of that revolver is a little uncomfortable to shoot, so I'm thinking just slightly lighter load will be perfect
If you are using double ended or button nose WCs with a solid base they can be driven to some pretty impressive velocities.  Push a hollow based WC much past 750 fps you run the risk of blowing off a skirt (that's what she said) and getting it stuck in your bore.  Not a good thing.

FWIW I like to shoot a 158 coated SWC ahead of a good charge of Unique--a bit dirty but it shoots good enough for me and any potential double charge should be easy to spot. 

Oh yeah---HEADS! O0

oldfart

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2021, 04:10:48 PM »
 the backwards HBWC makes for an interesting defensive round for 38 spec
It's basically a humongous hollow point

The limiting factor would be lack of sufficient lube to allow it to go fast.
But with that big soft cavity, I don't think high speed really matters.
Hornady sold a Hydra-shok version in bulk, back in the day.
Didn't I post a picture here someplace?
What, Me Worry?

stangzilla

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2021, 04:12:44 PM »
If you are using double ended or button nose WCs with a solid base they can be driven to some pretty impressive velocities.  Push a hollow based WC much past 750 fps you run the risk of blowing off a skirt (that's what she said) and getting it stuck in your bore.  Not a good thing.

FWIW I like to shoot a 158 coated SWC ahead of a good charge of Unique--a bit dirty but it shoots good enough for me and any potential double charge should be easy to spot. 

Oh yeah---HEADS! O0

i have some button nose with flat base
i just ordered some flat base with flat nose with crimp groove
I havent shot either yet, maybe this weekend i'll start with the button nose at the range

stangzilla

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2021, 04:43:37 PM »
I just ordered some flat base wadcutters:  357mag 148 grain, and 44mag 200 grain.  going to load a moderate powder load, maybe AA#5 or #7

Heavies

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2021, 05:21:54 PM »
Old cap and ball revolvers used dead soft lead projectiles.  At the lower velocities produced by these weapons, dead soft lead was a good combo.

Teichi

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2021, 06:52:29 AM »
I tried some of these out. They are strictly close range stuff. They are jacketed hollow based wadcutters backward loaded.
https://www.federalpremium.com/handgun/premium-personal-defense/personal-defense-hst-micro/11-P38HST1S.html

stangzilla

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2021, 02:23:44 PM »
these are various cast lead ammo shot through ballistic gel
the 44 mag hard cast lead 340 grain wadcutters go through 2 ballistic gel blocks, 32" and more while making a large wound cavity, pretty devastating

Inspector

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2021, 03:40:57 PM »
these are various cast lead ammo shot through ballistic gel
the 44 mag hard cast lead 340 grain wadcutters go through 2 ballistic gel blocks, 32" and more while making a large wound cavity, pretty devastating


Fun video. I wouldn’t want to get hit by one of those hard cast flat nose.  :worship:
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

stangzilla

Re: wadcutters for self defense
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2021, 03:54:06 PM »
Fun video. I wouldn’t want to get hit by one of those hard cast flat nose.  :worship:

yep, old school ammo still works pretty darn well.  :thumbsup: