Rather than start another "newbie question" thread and my question relates to OP, I'll post here if you don't mind. ---- I've been collecting my reloading equipment for several months now and finally have what I feel I need to drop my first charge. I'm reloading .223 Rem for a bolt gun. Using once fired WCC brass, CCI BR-4 primers, 69grn HPBT Sierra Matchkings. I bought Varget and H335 and was planning to start with H335 and hold the Varget for later use. The data shows 22grns of H335 as the starting load and 24grns being the max load. I was planning to load 20 rounds each of 22grns and increasing by .5grn to a max to 23.5grns for a starting point. I would be looking for overpressure signs along the way. After I find the load that shoots the best in my rifle, I was planning on increasing/ decreasing the charge by .2grns next than .1grn to fine tune and possibly playing with OAL.

My primary reason to reload is for accuracy but cost is also a major factor. I would like to end up with a load similar to Federal Gold Medal Match as my rifle shoots those really well.

With that in mind, I'm open to your thoughts and suggestions.

I reload with both H335 and Varget and I use 69gr SMK's. For my guns I found that while H335 provided the best accuracy for 65gr bullets and under, Varget provides the best accuracy for heavier bullets. Don't get me wrong, I like H335 and with 64gr Bergers I get one hole for 5 shots at 100yds with my Rem 700 5R. But with any bullet over 65gr that I have tried including 69gr SMK's, Noslers, Hornady's, Barnes, etc all the way to 80gr I get worse results with H335 and better results with Varget. I use 63gr and 65gr Sierra's with H335 and get almost one hole accuracy at 100yds as a plinking round. My Noveske AR loves the Sierra 65gr bullets with H335 as well.

I encourage you to try the H335 in your gun with the 69gr SMK's but don't be afraid to open up that bottle of Varget and try it out. You might see similar results as I do.

I've never saw that big a difference with 0.1gr change. It would be hard to say it wasn't my shooting that made the difference unless I had weight matched bullets & cases, meticulous brass prep and assembly, no wind, one helluva rest, and monitored barrel temp. I don't see measurable change in accuracy until about 0.3

Mahalo for the replies all.

Mr Farknocker, very interesting I was not expecting that kind of results from a .1grn increment. Is there any reason why you do your load development at 50yrds instead of 100yrds? My thoughts would be that shooting at 100yrds would tell me more about the load than at 50yrds. As well my thinking was that shooting 2-3 groups of 5 will be a bigger sample than 1 group of 5. My plan was to focus more on the vertical stringing than the horizontal as I work on the load. Hopefully this doesn't come off in the wrong way I'm not doubting you in anyway (sometimes typing can come off wrong), just curious and trying to learn. I'm new to reloading, not to shooting. My setup has shot sub 1/2" at 100yrds with good ammo on a good day. I was thinking that shooting at 50 may have too small of a discernible difference between loads.

Inspector, my plan was to run Varget exclusively as I've read the same experiences you're having online. The problem was that I could only find #1 of Varget and found many of H335. My barrel is a 26" 1/9 and has shot 62grn soft points up to 75grn good. It seems to really like 68 and 69grn the best. I was planning to try some Berger 70 VLDs and Amax 75s down the road. There's been times that 75 HPBTs has shot unbelievable in my rifle and other times the groups looks like shotgun patterns. What twist does your 700 have?

Mahalo for the replies all.

Mr Farknocker, very interesting I was not expecting that kind of results from a .1grn increment. Is there any reason why you do your load development at 50yrds instead of 100yrds? My thoughts would be that shooting at 100yrds would tell me more about the load than at 50yrds. As well my thinking was that shooting 2-3 groups of 5 will be a bigger sample than 1 group of 5. My plan was to focus more on the vertical stringing than the horizontal as I work on the load. Hopefully this doesn't come off in the wrong way I'm not doubting you in anyway (sometimes typing can come off wrong), just curious and trying to learn. I'm new to reloading, not to shooting. My setup has shot sub 1/2" at 100yrds with good ammo on a good day. I was thinking that shooting at 50 may have too small of a discernible difference between loads.

Inspector, my plan was to run Varget exclusively as I've read the same experiences you're having online. The problem was that I could only find #1 of Varget and found many of H335. My barrel is a 26" 1/9 and has shot 62grn soft points up to 75grn good. It seems to really like 68 and 69grn the best. I was planning to try some Berger 70 VLDs and Amax 75s down the road. There's been times that 75 HPBTs has shot unbelievable in my rifle and other times the groups looks like shotgun patterns. What twist does your 700 have?

My Rem 700 5R is 1 in 9 and does not shoot anything over 69gr or 70gr very well. I have seen keyholing with some 75 and 80gr bullets, but not all. In that weight range mostly VLD's won't stabilize. The sweet spot for my 700 is 63gr-65gr but the 69gr SMK's and 69gr Nosler's are almost as good. My Noveske AR is 1 in 7 and while it does really well with 55gr to 80gr bullets it has a sweet spot of 65gr-70gr. A lot of that might be the inability to load the bullet close to the lands in the AR.

I didn't want to quote Mr Farknocker's post as it is quite large. But to continue with his comments I have found with my reloading and my guns very small amounts of change when using 0.1gr increments. No matter how hard I try I cannot rest my gun steady enough to see a lot of difference. So I use 0.5gr increments to get a base line. And I'll try 0.2gr or 0.3gr increments if I have not reached my goal. But I also stop trying smaller increments if I hit my goal. For instance, as I mentioned a single ragged hole using Varget and 64gr Berger's. I could probably take that a step further and reduce the size of the hole using smaller increments. But I surpassed my goal and I stopped. So it is up to you to try smaller increments if you feel the need to. I also stopped using 0.5gr after using much cheaper Sierra 63gr and 65gr hunting bullets and reaching my goal of 0.5" MOA at 100yds. I am sure I could reduce that some by trying smaller increments.

One thing I also noticed is that starting from the minimum recommended starting load as I worked up in powder charge I see an increase in accuracy. Then after a certain point I see a drop in accuracy. But as I surpass that and approach the maximum recommended load I see an increase in accuracy again. Sometimes the difference between the two points of utmost accuracy using vastly different powder charges is quite minimal.

For the reloaders, how important is it to have a chrono when testing your different loads?
I don't own one and was wondering if the general consensus is that the manuals listed velocity is close enough for your satisfaction .   Difference being barrel, twist, case and primer listed and your own.
For target and defensive purposes does accuracy trump velocity for up to 100 yards?   Just trying to get educated if that sounds like a dumb question.   

Inspector, Thank you very much for the info. My thoughts were similar in that I was thinking to start course, finish fine. I would be satisfied if I can find a load that produces 1/2 MOA consistently. I will look into the 65s, I have never had the chance to try any. I' ve gone as far as 77s and never experienced any keyholing, but the groups were terrible. I have noticed that AR carbines with a 1:9 does no like the same as a 1:9 bolt. Mine has a long barrel so it may like a slightly different grain than a shorter tube. I shoot a Savage so if and when I change the barrel, I was thinking 1:8 or 1:7 around 22".

If you don't mind me asking, where do you get your Varget? You can PM me if that's better. I only found #1 at WGS and bought that.

Mr Farknocker, very interesting I was not expecting that kind of results from a .1grn increment. Is there any reason why you do your load development at 50yrds instead of 100yrds? My thoughts would be that shooting at 100yrds would tell me more about the load than at 50yrds. As well my thinking was that shooting 2-3 groups of 5 will be a bigger sample than 1 group of 5. My plan was to focus more on the vertical stringing than the horizontal as I work on the load. Hopefully this doesn't come off in the wrong way I'm not doubting you in anyway (sometimes typing can come off wrong), just curious and trying to learn. I'm new to reloading, not to shooting. My setup has shot sub 1/2" at 100yrds with good ammo on a good day. I was thinking that shooting at 50 may have too small of a discernible difference between loads.

There are differing thoughts on the optimal distance you should test your loads at. Some say 50 yards is too short and doesn't give the bullet sufficient time to stabilize. Others say that bullet spread at 50 will be worse at 100 so testing at 50 will give you a  "rough cut" of what you can expect at 100 and beyond. For me, I test my AR and iron sight rifles at 50 to get a rough cut of what I can expect at 100, because I can't see far enough at 100 with my irons or close/medium range optics or red dot and because it minimizes the influence wind has on the bullet's trajectory.  I do final testing at 100 and will use 100 for a hunting rifle with optics powerful enough for me to see zero.

For the reloaders, how important is it to have a chrono when testing your different loads?
I don't own one and was wondering if the general consensus is that the manuals listed velocity is close enough for your satisfaction .   Difference being barrel, twist, case and primer listed and your own.
For target and defensive purposes does accuracy trump velocity for up to 100 yards?   Just trying to get educated if that sounds like a dumb question.

At 100 target shooting  I'd say a Chono isn't that necessary. Just watch for pressure signs. I use one to see where factory ammo is in that particular gun /barrel length as a reference for my reloads. I think it is necessary when shooting distance as you can plug in your numbers to see trajectory for that weapon / load.  For hunting, you will also know what distance your particular bullet hits the fps that it will not expand well. 

At 100 target shooting  I'd say a Chono isn't that necessary. Just watch for pressure signs. I use one to see where factory ammo is in that particular gun /barrel length as a reference for my reloads. I think it is necessary when shooting distance as you can plug in your numbers to see trajectory for that weapon / load.  For hunting, you will also know what distance your particular bullet hits the fps that it will not expand well. 

I see your point about getting chrono info to figure trajectory at farther distances, especially since KHSC is only 100 yds.
How far do you place your chrono from your barrel at KHSC?

I see your point about getting chrono info to figure trajectory at farther distances, especially since KHSC is only 100 yds.
How far do you place your chrono from your barrel at KHSC?

10ft. At KhSc I go prone on the left side cuz it's flat.

I see your point about getting chrono info to figure trajectory at farther distances, especially since KHSC is only 100 yds.
How far do you place your chrono from your barrel at KHSC?

Get a magnetospeed, they are on sale right now! You attach it to your barrel so no need to set up a tripod down range and you won't accidentally shoot it.
A chronograph isn't a requiremnet for load development but it helps a lot as you get more data to see what's going on with your loads. If you ever plan to shoot at longer ranges, you will be a bit disappointed when your loads that shoot great at 100 yards are shite at 600 because you have a standard deviation of 100fps.

Get a magnetospeed, they are on sale right now! You attach it to your barrel so no need to set up a tripod down range and you won't accidentally shoot it.
A chronograph isn't a requiremnet for load development but it helps a lot as you get more data to see what's going on with your loads. If you ever plan to shoot at longer ranges, you will be a bit disappointed when your loads that shoot great at 100 yards are shite at 600 because you have a standard deviation of 100fps.

Was looking at it but the price is too high for me.   Midway USA  has discontinued the magnetospeed for some reason.   Thinking about one of the Chrony type with the remote screen and try to go on a sunny, low wind day.  Chrony sells lots of replacement parts which is good if you accidentally blast the posts.
  I use BL(C)-2 (that's what I got from before) and am deciding on a load of 24.4 gr. as it had good grouping at 100 yds with 77 SMK.  Lyman 49th manual lists 24.7 gr, and Hodgdon list 24.9 gr. as max load.   I tried  24.5 gr. but started opening up a little (could have been me).
Not sure how much deviation in velocity 0.3 gr. would make.   But then again like you mentioned, 100 yds. might be good but farther out a different story.
 I use LC brass where manuals list Winchester brass so due to thickness I tend to be more conservative on powder load.   My load development started at 23.0, 23.2, 23.4, 23.6, 23.9, 24.0, 24.2, 24.3, 24.4 and 24.5.

Inspector, Thank you very much for the info. My thoughts were similar in that I was thinking to start course, finish fine. I would be satisfied if I can find a load that produces 1/2 MOA consistently. I will look into the 65s, I have never had the chance to try any. I' ve gone as far as 77s and never experienced any keyholing, but the groups were terrible. I have noticed that AR carbines with a 1:9 does no like the same as a 1:9 bolt. Mine has a long barrel so it may like a slightly different grain than a shorter tube. I shoot a Savage so if and when I change the barrel, I was thinking 1:8 or 1:7 around 22".

If you don't mind me asking, where do you get your Varget? You can PM me if that's better. I only found #1 at WGS and bought that.

I have been using Varget for quite some time. I had purchased 10lbs from OGC when Carter last brought in Varget and Titegroup around 4 years ago. While I was using it up I started buying 1lb bottles any time I saw them at a LGS (YG's, WGS, SEC, etc.). I don't have any where near that much any more but I still have enough to keep me going until powder becomes more available. I would also try J Hara Store as they seem to have a lot of popular powders.

There is a reason why heavy Sierra bullets such as the 77s and 80s suggest shooting them in 1 in 8 twist barrels or faster on their boxes. Barrel length is not the factor.

Get a magnetospeed, they are on sale right now! You attach it to your barrel so no need to set up a tripod down range and you won't accidentally shoot it.
A chronograph isn't a requiremnet for load development but it helps a lot as you get more data to see what's going on with your loads. If you ever plan to shoot at longer ranges, you will be a bit disappointed when your loads that shoot great at 100 yards are shite at 600 because you have a standard deviation of 100fps.

I originally posted that Midway discontinued magnetospeed due to googling this A.M.  However looking at their main site tonight, Midway does still sell the V3 which is on sale for $380 but also sells a sporter version for $179.99.  Right now the sporter is on backorder so I put my name in to be notified.
Looks like the V3 has pc interface options which is above my pay grade anyways.   Never knew about the sporter version but is affordable.

Primary Arms has the magnetospeed sporter on sale for $179 and in stock.  Just ordered one.
Mahalo to Justin for prompting me to look into magnetospeed again.

You're welcome. Just be ready to answer the "what the hell is that" questions at the range.

I checked the website and you can get the cable to connect the sporter to your phone
http://www.magnetospeed.com/collections/magnetospeed-accessories/products/pre-release-magnetospeed-xfr

I have the V1 and am thinking about upgrading my display.

There is a reason why heavy Sierra bullets such as the 77s and 80s suggest shooting them in 1 in 8 twist barrels or faster on their boxes. Barrel length is not the factor.

I don't think barrel length is as much a factors as is gas guns vs bolt guns. I do think barrel length has a little to do with it though. F-Class shooter use extremely long tubes to take advantage of the velocity benefits.

There is a reason why heavy Sierra bullets such as the 77s and 80s suggest shooting them in 1 in 8 twist barrels or faster on their boxes. Barrel length is not the factor.

I shoot 77 gr. SMK out of a 18" barrel upper with 1 in 8 twist.  Later will also use my 16" barrel upper with 1/7 twist.