Open discussion to share ideas on how individuals and/or families can be better prepared for the scenario that unfolded in Lahaina this week. 

Many of us in Hawaii prepare for natural disasters to some degree, and it seemed that many were un-prepared for a fast-moving wildfire. Typical preparedness seems to be for short term power outages and other hurricane associated events. 

Aside from politics and how our leadership may have handled or not handled things satisfactorily, anyone care to float around ideas or concepts to incorporate or add to family emergency action plan(s) or preparedness?

Some takeaways I have so far, I would like to invest in longer range comms, I currently have two-way walkie's good to about 1/2 mile (non-line of sight) in my neighborhood and nearest family home is 1 mile.   My current emergency plan has more emphasis on sheltering in place and not really "bugging-out" long term.

Closer to home for most of us, there was a brush (at least I think) in Kunia area last week.  Caused one of my co-workers to stay home and keep an eye on things.  That was a day before the high winds.  My coworker mentioned that a fire break was constructed, but still had some flare-ups the next day.  Who knows what would have happened if the winds were higher.

For Lahaina, I haven't been to that area in a while.  One of my projects was the Lahaina Bypass, which includes the bridge way up in the aerial photos.  Anyways, I was at the site one summer and there was a fire down by the main highway.  There were some older/dry pine trees and those suckers went up SUPER fast.  Don't know if other areas had trees like that when this fire happened, but I saw first hand how quickly a fire can spread and shut down the highway.  I can imagine how with high winds, things got out of control quickly.

For the OP, have you looked into HAM radios? 

1.  Be aware of what's happening around you.
2.  Something that may seem small or irrelevant can grow into an emergency.  Get out fast before the traffic builds up.
3.  Have a bug out kit.  Food, water, medicine, and supplies for a few days.  Also important personal items to save.  I've got my camping and SAR bags ready to go, cases of water and MREs, backup hard drive with all my computer stuff.
4.  Have a portable power source for small electronics.  I'll use my Tesla which has a small inverter.  Or portable solar panel and battery works too.
5.  Cant wait for Tmobile to get starlink access when the cell towers are out!

An important point when driving through a fire like in this video.  https://twitter.com/i/status/1689287342987657216

They drive by a unresponsive woman lying on the road and question if they should stop to help.  I would not stop in that particular case sinces she's unresponsive and likely dead.

Youre car is a protective bubble providing life support in the middle of an inferno.  If you open the door, you'll experience heat in the hundreds of degrees and you can't see cause your eyes are burning from the heat and smoke.  You also let in toxic CO2 and CO which kill in small amounts.  You'll pass out and die quickly outside of the car.   People will then try to rescue the rescuer and die too.  If everyone in the car dies, the car will block the road and everyone in cars stuck behind you will die too.

This is the same reason you shouldn't rescue people in engulfed buildings, confined spaces with toxic gases, and manure pits on farms.  Whole families get killed trying to rescue each other from these places.

If the victim is still moving around and responsive, then I would try to save them as it means the area is still hospitable.

Also the cars driving through flames can stall out due to reduced oxygen and overheating.  It's vital to keep moving and get out of the flames as soon as possible.

For the OP, have you looked into HAM radios?

I've always browsed and perused about one day having one and getting certified. But after seeing a real breakdown of comms so close to home and how fast the infrastructure broke down in Lahaina, makes me want to discuss with our other family homes to get a basic communication plan in place.

Hearing so many people talk about how they lost everything makes me think about the danger of keeping all my preps in one spot, but it’s not exactly like I can afford to pay multiple rents. Who do I trust to hold on to some stuff, and who actually has the secure space? Gotta think about that some more.

This is a pickle. Do I keep docs like passports, social cards, birth certs, etc...in my BOB?  Cause in the event someone breaks into my home, it's easier for them to steal said docs.  Compared to leaving it in the gun safe.  And the home is more likely to get broken into than a fire happening.

Or another option is keep it all together and grab on the way out. But this is 1 more thing to get together when leaving in a hurry. Cat, wife, kid, 1 gun, etc...

This is a pickle. Do I keep docs like passports, social cards, birth certs, etc...in my BOB?  Cause in the event someone breaks into my home, it's easier for them to steal said docs.  Compared to leaving it in the gun safe.  And the home is more likely to get broken into than a fire happening.

Or another option is keep it all together and grab on the way out. But this is 1 more thing to get together when leaving in a hurry. Cat, wife, kid, 1 gun, etc...

One possibility is to keep those docs in the gun safe bundled with your extra mags or in an ammo can which you will grab along with your 1 gun from the safe prior to leaving.  I keep em separate in a small fire rated safe and if I forget it on the way out, just hope it still there after the fire is out. 

There's no optimal solution.  No matter what you plan for, the worst case will be something you never expected.

Have you ever traveled to less-developed countries on your passport?  There are certain common sense precautions recommended for travelers which might help in case of emergency at home.

Don't pretend you can keep your documents secure.  Whether you're a victim of pick pockets, fire, theft or other disaster, you should make copies of all your important documents.  Simplest way is to take pics on your phone in a secure location in storage.  Don't depend on cloud storage for access or safe keeping.

Copies of those copies can be placed on thumb drives and stored at work, a safety deposit box, in a family member's safe or deposit box, etc.  As long as you have a backup, you should be able to have copies of everything available. 

How is this helpful without the originals?  First thing is you know exactly what was lost.  If you need to get replacements and cancel stolen credit cards or passports, you'll have all the information you need.

Secondly, while immigration officials are not going to accept a copy of a passport, most people who ask for ID will be likely to accept it in digital format, especially if they are aware of your situation.  Once they have your info, a quick phone call or online look-up is all that's needed for verification.

I have pictures of all my credit cards and IDs (Kaiser card, License, etc.) i carry in my wallet encrypted on my phone.  Not only is it a good inventory of what i have, but it is convenient if i need a security code or expiration date while doing online payments.  Easier than running upstairs to grab my wallet!   

Even with all that backup, I keep things like passports, checkbooks, birth certificates and so forth in a fire rated document safe.  Easier to conceal than a gun safe.  Plus, if the gun safe is what's being targeted, the thieves will get your personal docs as a bonus once they have your guns.  All Your Eggs --> One Basket....

Most gun safes I've purchased had much lower fire ratings than what you find on smaller name brand document safes.  The highly rated gun safes are usually not cheap.

So what's the process for life saving meds?  Like will a doc give you a 30 day supply for in case SHTF? And are people willing to pay for it knowing it may have a short shelf life?

I can image that Maui has a RX problem right now.

So what's the process for life saving meds?  Like will a doc give you a 30 day supply for in case SHTF? And are people willing to pay for it knowing it may have a short shelf life?

I can image that Maui has a RX problem right now.

My mother traveled here on vacation.  I had a business trip planned around the time she was to leave here, so we took the opportunity to both go to Vegas on her return trip.

About 3pm the night we were departing, she called frantically saying she didn't have enough medication for the trip through Vegas.  Even though she had the Rx filled for a 4 week supply, she was suddenly out.

I called nearby doctors, and one was able to write an emergency prescription for her.  We filled it at Long's, and catastrophe was averted.  Of course, the doctor charged me $80 to write the prescription!

As long as the prescription info is at hand (like my mom's prescription bottle label), it's easy enough to get a refill in an emergency as long as you find a doctor and pharmacy.

This is a pickle. Do I keep docs like passports, social cards, birth certs, etc...in my BOB?

Unless you need to use your passport for foreign travel, keep it in a safe deposit box in a reputable bank, together with an Ironkey USB drive that contains your important digital files. If a house burns down completely, how do you reconstruct your tax returns, receipts, etc.? Not easy. This piece of advice was given to me by an FBI agent. Also important to keep a small laptop and backup cell phone in your bug out bag.

The electrical infrastructure on Oahu is horrible. Bad enough that we suffer from outages periodically, but in a real disaster situation, the electric company will probably be one of the causes of your home burning down.

The situation in West Maui could be getting worse with looters taking advantage of the situation.



There was a story on yahoo about a painter (Ariel Quiroz) who used a sprinkler to wet down his house on Tuesday morning. This could be an urban legend that may be real.

Long lines of burned out cars reinforces the priority of being the first ones out.

This is a pickle. Do I keep docs like passports, social cards, birth certs, etc...in my BOB?  Cause in the event someone breaks into my home, it's easier for them to steal said docs.  Compared to leaving it in the gun safe.  And the home is more likely to get broken into than a fire happening.

Or another option is keep it all together and grab on the way out. But this is 1 more thing to get together when leaving in a hurry. Cat, wife, kid, 1 gun, etc...

Use a small fire-proof safe to store your important docs.  Put the small fireproof safe inside your larger fire-proof gun safe, for double protection.

Have one official ID with you at all times.  Can you imagine how difficult it must be for some residents right now to prove that they are residents of Lahaina or to access their bank accounts if all their IDs were burned in the fire?

Long lines of burned out cars reinforces the priority of being the first ones out.

A bug out bike is more likely to beat traffic but if you hit a wall of flame or thick smoke you are totally exposed.

A bug out bike is more likely to beat traffic but if you hit a wall of flame or thick smoke you are totally exposed.

Given the amount of stuff and people one might want to bug out with, an all terrain quad might be useful.

If you travel light and alone, and have the experience to ride, then a trail motorcycle or dirt bike.

The down side is you have less protection riding through fires and bad weather, but at least you're riding and not stuck in stand-still traffic or forced to remain on the roadways.

For the homeowners who have to build a new home over the land that once held their own home, please choose your builder carefully.



Nothing is guaranteed, but buffers, roofs, and fire resistant double walled materials should help. Battery operated smoke and carbon monoxide alarms are critical. This state (HI) is full of unqualified, shoddy contractors. As bad as the bandits who work out of Florida. My neighbor's new pool leaked, and the contractor had to be called back three times. Find out who works for Oprah or Jason Mamoa. Use da best.

For the homeowners who have to build a new home over the land that once held their own home, please choose your builder carefully.

Nothing is guaranteed, but buffers, roofs, and fire resistant double walled materials should help. Battery operated smoke and carbon monoxide alarms are critical. This state (HI) is full of unqualified, shoddy contractors. As bad as the bandits who work out of Florida. My neighbor's new pool leaked, and the contractor had to be called back three times. Find out who works for Oprah or Jason Mamoa. Use da best.

It's often difficult to afford "the best."  How much over-engineering can you afford when a fire of this magnitude has never happened in Hawaii before?  How much will insurance premiums be after you rebuild?  Can you even find insurance that'll cover replacement cost for a "survivable" home design?

Oprah and Jason can afford the best.  Cost is not a concern for them.

Easy to give advice on what others should buy, but insurance settlements on losses in this disaster will not rise to the level that can fund what you're proposing.

It's reality versus "in a perfect world" thinking.

Things like smoke detectors are common in Hawaii as they are required by law.  Carbon monoxide detectors are not as common because most do not have central heating furnaces or gas appliances.  Cost of those measures are affordable, so it should be left up to individual household needs.

I agree the majority of people doing work as contractors are sub-par, but that's a problem everywhere.  Even longtime, reputable roofers can hire no-so-bright employees. 

I had some facia boards on the 2nd story of my house that were rotted, and since I was having the roof replaced, I asked them to take care of it.  The replacement boards should have been connected at a 90 degree angle -- so two boards cut at 45 degrees.  Pretty simple, huh?  What i got was two boards cut at around the same 22.5 degrees so the long sides of the cut didn't touch making a "V".  To "fix it", the guy used globs of roofing adhesive to plug the "V" with a triangular shape -- basically making a 3-sided beveled corner, like if  you'd put the two board together correctly then cut off the point!  Only, it didn't look that good.  It was sloppy with wide spaces where the plugs met the facia.

I showed the roofing co. owner, and he laughed saying, "Well, we don't hire rocket scientists!"  Seemed inappropriate, since I would think basic carpentry skills are not "rocket science" to most people.  He then hired a real carpenter to repair their work, and at my request used the longest boards available (30 ft?) to avoid excessive joints around the roof.  The first guys bought 8 ft boards, leaving a lot of obvious seams.

I hate having anyone work on anything at my house.  Anything bigger than I am willing to tackle costs $10K - $20K, has a 3 month lead time to get started, and always winds up with "errors." 

Another example was a wooden fence that was rotted and finally fell down.  I replaced it with vinyl.  What I wanted was the same as on the other side of the house: 6' tall with solid panels up to 4.5', then lattice inlay at the top. When finished, the vinyl  lattice was all jagged where it had been cut.  I asked the installer, and his response was, "I didn't have the table saw we normally use because it was at another job site.  So I used a Skil saw."  i refused to pay the second half of the installation until they replaced the buggered-up sections.  About 4 years ago, those lattice sections deteriorated, even though there's a lifetime warranty on the fence.  Couldn't call the installer, because they are out of business.  So, I went to HD, bought the lattice I needed in 4x8 foot sheets, and used a 10" vinyl-rated circular saw blade.  Did the entire side of the house so the lattice matched, and it looks 10 times better than the installer's job.

Then there was the vinyl gate.  Different company -- same results.  They measured the opening, installed the gate, and left.  When I checked, they had made the gate too narrow, leaving a 2-inch gap on the latch side.  When they came beck out, they said, "you can just add a 2x4 to that concrete column and fill the gap."  OMG!  Now it's my job to half-ass correct their screw-up?  When they called up asking when I would be making final payment, I said when they bring a gate stretcher out to fix the gate.  They wound up bringing a new properly sized gate.

That's not even all the problems with the fence, but you get the message.  i'd rather have my house in ruins than pay someone to fix what's needed.  The stress of dealing with crappy workmanship is worse than just taking care of it myself.  At least if it's wrong, I didn't pay the outrageous labor cost.

Was listening and watching the breaking news of the Maui wildfire today.  Chief Pelletier said to please respect the constitution of the state of Nevada.

Before he realized that he is now the chief of police for Maui.  And that he meant the constitution of the state of Hawaii.

Guess he still thinks he heads the police back in Nevada even though he's been chief of Maui police department since at least end of 2021.

Nomo focus.  Or maybe just tired.