2018 OHA candidates OAHU (Read 25085 times)

Kuleana

Re: 2018 OHA candidates OAHU
« Reply #140 on: August 15, 2018, 04:00:55 PM »
After watching a number testimonies before the Dept. Of the Interior
A big problem with obtaining sovereignty of a Hawaiian Nation is that many Hawaiian groups can't agree with Hawaiian groups can't agree with Hawaiian groups.......
Many agree on Sovereignty but with vastly different ideas on what sovereignty would look like.

This is because many so-called sovereignty groups have not thoroughly researched nor understand that once an occupied territory is restored, it reverts back to its original form with all the same laws that were on the books that were in existence prior to the occupation.


The groups couldn't even agree on a Constitution that was "ratified" by some groups.
("Ratified constitution grants citizenship to those who were descendants of the aboriginal and indigenous people who were in Hawaii prior to 1778. Apparently regardless of blood quantum but with only with concern to blood (race) lineage.)

Once again, these same groups going around to ratify a new Constitution are not realizing that their efforts are invalid because Hawaii prior to annexation by the US was a multi-ethnic society.  Therefore, the idea of granting citizenship only to those of aboriginal decent is incorrect.


Some groups thought it was a sellout to Nation within a Nation.

This is a correct assessment because the whole "Nation within a Nation" was a covert legal attempt by the US via the Department of Interior to legally dupe Native Hawaiians in surrendering their sovereignty of Hawaii to the US.


I get the 13 years to adopt a Constution of the U.S.
But Hawaiians have been discussing this issue for decades back to Walter Ritte's early days (and Haunani Trask and Bumpy Kanahele, etc. )  and probably farther back and haven't been able to come to the table on any agreed upon resolution or plan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/native-hawaiians-again-seek-political-sovereignty-with-a-new-constitution/2017/11/05/833842d2-b905-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.19877441f9cd

"Yet until Hawaiians erect their own government, how it would interact with the United States and others is all fantasy, said Michelle Kauhane, a writer of the constitution who has been traveling to present it to Native Hawaiian communities."

"Kanahele was one of 152 participants in last year's constitutional convention. He decamped before the vote that adopted the document.

"That was like a 20-day cleanse," said Kanahele, who is in the process of launching Aloha Coin, a virtual currency for the Nation of Hawaii. "People there were just learning about nation-building. They have no idea how to be responsible for 100 people, 200 people, 1,000 people. Their nation is in the four corners of the classroom. They are more theory; we are out here leading by example."


All the above reaffirms that most Hawaiians understand about the Illegal annexation by the US, but are not well-versed that the laws that governed Hawaii prior to annexation will be the same laws that will come into effect, once the occupation ends.  What Hawaiians need to focus their efforts on is begin reading the laws and treaties that were in effect prior to the illegal annexation; see what new amendments to those laws are necessary to bring it into 2018; and begin economic discussion that will address Hawaii's new economic base given the new freedom of action from US Federal laws and their foreign treaties, while reopening new trade ties based on the economic treaties Hawaii had with the many international nations.


My personal opinion: Sovereignty is a pipe dream and continuous rejection of Nation within a Nation relations is a proud people shooting themselves in the foot.

Hawaiians do not need to gain sovereignty because the sovereignty of Hawaii was never lost.  Like Iraq in 2003, only the government was removed, which explains why the US never made Iraq the 51st state after it was militarily conquered.

Even for myself, who supports the restoration of Hawaii as its own nation, do not think it can happen immediately.  In the words of Dr. Keanu Sai, Hawaiians need to work towards regaining their nation by first educating themselves on all legal facets on what happens when an occupied nation is no longer occupied.  With all the talk of drafting new constitutions, it is clear Hawaiians have not educated themselves enough at this time.


aieahound

Re: 2018 OHA candidates OAHU
« Reply #141 on: August 15, 2018, 06:01:06 PM »
The above is very educating and I appreciate it.

My only thing is the "Sovereignty of Hawaii never lost".
How you figure?

As I see it, it was lost in every sense of the word except for legal claim. (Which has been rejected pretty much definitively by the occupying nation.)
Iraq.
We militarily conquered it and immediately gave it back. (With conditions) and as you mentioned never moved, and won't, to make them a territory or State.
Even if they asked we wouldn't entertain the thought.
Apples to orange.

rklapp

Re: 2018 OHA candidates OAHU
« Reply #142 on: August 15, 2018, 06:30:44 PM »
Quote
Even for myself, who supports the restoration of Hawaii as its own nation, do not think it can happen immediately.  In the words of Dr. Keanu Sai, Hawaiians need to work towards regaining their nation by first educating themselves on all legal facets on what happens when an occupied nation is no longer occupied.  With all the talk of drafting new constitutions, it is clear Hawaiians have not educated themselves enough at this time.
So the Kingdom of Hawaii should be "restored" after a majority of Native Hawaiians are "well-versed" in the illegality of the annexation and the laws that existed before the occupation (I presume 1893). What exactly is the education plan and how will they identify those who will be involved in the education?
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

Kuleana

Re: 2018 OHA candidates OAHU
« Reply #143 on: August 15, 2018, 07:29:37 PM »
So the Kingdom of Hawaii should be "restored" after a majority of Native Hawaiians are "well-versed" in the illegality of the annexation and the laws that existed before the occupation (I presume 1893). What exactly is the education plan and how will they identify those who will be involved in the education?

The education is already being conducted on a multitude of levels.  Within our local public school system, history books that accurately recounts the history of Hawaii is now available and being used.  Hawaiian history scholars and attorneys are continuously holding seminars and making presentations via all available social media for Native Hawaiians and the general public.  In academia, domestic and international presentations of the legal status of Hawaii are also being conducted to educate Americans and foreigners via educational conferences.

Kuleana

Re: 2018 OHA candidates OAHU
« Reply #144 on: August 15, 2018, 07:35:55 PM »
The above is very educating and I appreciate it.

My only thing is the "Sovereignty of Hawaii never lost".
How you figure?

As I see it, it was lost in every sense of the word except for legal claim. (Which has been rejected pretty much definitively by the occupying nation.)
Iraq.
We militarily conquered it and immediately gave it back. (With conditions) and as you mentioned never moved, and won't, to make them a territory or State.
Even if they asked we wouldn't entertain the thought.
Apples to orange.


If you read some treaties with respect to the conventions of war and the laws of occupation.  The US did not "give Iraq back to the Iraqis" as you say.  If the US did set upon a war to make Iraq a part of the US, it would have started WWIII then and there.  Iraq never lost its soverignty.  Like the rest of American Imperialism, they ousted Saddam and, at least initially successful, installed a Pro-US Government there.

rklapp

Re: 2018 OHA candidates OAHU
« Reply #145 on: August 15, 2018, 08:06:43 PM »

The education is already being conducted on a multitude of levels.  Within our local public school system, history books that accurately recounts the history of Hawaii is now available and being used.  Hawaiian history scholars and attorneys are continuously holding seminars and making presentations via all available social media for Native Hawaiians and the general public.  In academia, domestic and international presentations of the legal status of Hawaii are also being conducted to educate Americans and foreigners via educational conferences.

Will this be completed before or after the light rail is completed?  :D
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

Kuleana

Re: 2018 OHA candidates OAHU
« Reply #146 on: August 15, 2018, 08:17:29 PM »
Will this be completed before or after the light rail is completed?  :D

Oh definitely before.

In fact the future new government of Hawaii is preparing to increase its incomes taxes to cover the budget increases to the rail project till 2070.   :shaka:

aieahound

Re: 2018 OHA candidates OAHU
« Reply #147 on: August 15, 2018, 10:23:15 PM »
My only thing is the "Sovereignty of Hawaii was never lost".
How you figure?

As I see it, it was lost in every sense of the word except for legal claim. (Which has been rejected pretty much definitively by the occupying nation.)

My unanswered question.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 04:54:42 PM by aieahound »