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Boomah

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2014, 10:02:15 PM »
No kidding, I'm not sure what they consider maintained, certainly some inconsistency.   I can't quite figure out who Na Ala Hele is as well, website says they're "Administered by the Division of Forestry and Wildlife – Department of Land and Natural Resources".   So are they a State Agency or just a non-profit hiking group recognized by the state???

One thing I found interesting is the sheer number of trails available to the hiking enthusiasts, sanctioned or not....

Boomah  :shaka:

Bota-CS1

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2014, 10:28:20 PM »
Methinks the Explore Hawaii site is fudging just a bit. When you check the Na Ala Hele site, Koko Head isn't listed.

The sign at the bottom of the trail also states it is "Not maintained". So I think the State may disagree as well.


                                                                                                                                                   
Edster48 - did those signs replace this one?  I climbed that hill a couple of times and remember  the diamond shaped sign from below but that was years ago...
No one is coming, it’s up to us.

Legislation should never be about depriving law abiding citizens of something, but rather taking those things away from criminals.

Aiea78

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Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2014, 10:55:01 PM »
Methinks the Explore Hawaii site is fudging just a bit. When you check the Na Ala Hele site, Koko Head isn't listed.

The sign at the bottom of the trail also states it is "Not maintained". So I think the State may disagree as well.


                                                                                                                                                   

Seems like tacit authorization to me.

No matter you grown or flown.

Assault Rifle? What I have here is an Anti-Assault Rifle.
Proud Member 2016 2a Day Dozen open holster carry crew yo

Teichi

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2014, 03:13:25 AM »
Na Ala Hele is an actual State of Hawaii DLNR organization and Koko Head is not a sanctioned trail.

Na Ala Hele maintains sanctioned trails with contracted services, volunteer, or prison labor.

https://www.facebook.com/oahu.hele?fref=ts

I have a friend that works for Na Ala Hele and he also complains about illegal hiking on Koko Head and other non-Sanctioned trails on Oahu.

edster48

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2014, 06:13:55 AM »
Edster48 - did those signs replace this one?  I climbed that hill a couple of times and remember  the diamond shaped sign from below but that was years ago...

Yep, a few years ago when those old signs were first put up, the hikers threw a hissy fit and got the state to back down and remove the signs.

 Based on the testimony of people that said they felt perfectly safe walking down range from people firing weapons. I remember, I was there.

Quite different from the stories of having ricochets "buzzing" past their ears that we're hearing now. Amongst other things. This is why we need to document what happens at the HK board meetings and all the rescues that occur up there, for self protection.

Seems to me that if the state has to put up a sign that says " you may be seriously injured or killed" it might be wise to at least restrict access to experienced hikers, rather than allowing soccer moms to go up there with their kids because they think it's "cool".  Even then, there would undoubtedly be rescues, but at least it wouldn't be the invitation to disaster that it is now.

                                                                                                                                                       :shaka:
Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

edster48

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2014, 06:28:55 AM »
Seems like tacit authorization to me.

No matter you grown or flown.



You're correct, it is tacit authorization, and because of that, warning sign or not, it leaves the state open to a lawsuit.
 Which means more of our tax dollars wasted for something completely preventable.

Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

mnpfamily

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2014, 11:36:25 PM »
I'm VERY INTERESTED, in this subject. If anybody has seen or knows of rescues having to be made on KH trail, please PM me with any info. Particularly the number of rescues per month, year, etc. Also info on rescues/injuries on other trails around the island. Just now on the news there was a report on a couple of knuckle heads that are going to be helicoptered off of stairway to heaven.
Thanks!
 :shaka:
Shouldn't be that difficult.  Doesn't HFD send a rep to every monthly NHB meeting?  General stats to fires, rescues, medical calls misc. calls for the past month are presented.  After these stats are presented, aren't questions solicited?  While the rep may not have the exact number at that time, perhaps a more accurate number regarding rescues on the KH Trail can be provided for the next scheduled NHB meeting?  Perhaps included on the agenda as "previous business" for the next meeting? 

macsak

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2014, 12:01:08 AM »
Shouldn't be that difficult.  Doesn't HFD send a rep to every monthly NHB meeting?  General stats to fires, rescues, medical calls misc. calls for the past month are presented.  After these stats are presented, aren't questions solicited?  While the rep may not have the exact number at that time, perhaps a more accurate number regarding rescues on the KH Trail can be provided for the next scheduled NHB meeting?  Perhaps included on the agenda as "previous business" for the next meeting?
tactic tried, but chair stifled discussion
hopefully, someone will try again

Surf

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2014, 05:26:23 PM »
I am not here to pick fights with anyone on any topic, however public concerns and redress is an integral part of our system.  This is all public information, just summarizing it here.

The stats exist.  The chair has no legitimate reason not to have this information provided by any of the C&C first responders (Police, Fire or Ambulance) to the public at a neighborhood board meeting.  The Hawaii Kai board can be bypassed if they are not willing to assist in compiling theses stats.  If the public has a legitimate topic of discussion that is raised at a board meeting yet it is not on the agenda for that meeting, testimony does not need to be heard, however the topic should be placed on an upcoming agenda.  If anyone thinks that boards rules are being abused or violated or that any laws according to Hawaii Revised Statues Chapter 92 a complaint can be lodged with the C&C Neighborhood Commission Office.     

Hawaii Revised Statues Chapter 92

Information on the "Sunshine Law" and open meeting for neighborhood boards

C&C of Honolulu Neighborhood Commission Office

C&C of Honolulu NCO request for action and follow up

Complaint hotline - 768-3717

suka

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2014, 05:50:37 PM »
Someone plz call

edster48

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2014, 07:30:23 PM »
I am not here to pick fights with anyone on any topic, however public concerns and redress is an integral part of our system.  This is all public information, just summarizing it here.

The stats exist.  The chair has no legitimate reason not to have this information provided by any of the C&C first responders (Police, Fire or Ambulance) to the public at a neighborhood board meeting.  The Hawaii Kai board can be bypassed if they are not willing to assist in compiling theses stats.  If the public has a legitimate topic of discussion that is raised at a board meeting yet it is not on the agenda for that meeting, testimony does not need to be heard, however the topic should be placed on an upcoming agenda.  If anyone thinks that boards rules are being abused or violated or that any laws according to Hawaii Revised Statues Chapter 92 a complaint can be lodged with the C&C Neighborhood Commission Office.     

Hawaii Revised Statues Chapter 92

Information on the "Sunshine Law" and open meeting for neighborhood boards

C&C of Honolulu Neighborhood Commission Office

C&C of Honolulu NCO request for action and follow up

Complaint hotline - 768-3717

No real need to complain, at this point. NHB member Paige Alton asked the HFD reps how many of the rescues they had listed were up at KH trail, the response from the firefighter [probably lost a bet or something, didn't seem to happy to be there] Was "Uhhhh, I don't know". Ms. Alton seemed prepared to take it further, but the chair decided to move the discussion along.

I'm sure it has more to do with how the HFD breaks out their info, than some deficiency with the process or the young man forced to deliver the information.

HPD reps got read the riot act as they were just as poorly prepared. Although I have to admit, the chair seemed much more "concerned" about what was presented by HPD.

I can't imagine he would actually be biased.

I posted this info in my summary of the last meeting, and I shall be attending all future meetings and posting a summary as well. The next meeting is on the 25th if anyone is interested in attending.

                                                                                                                                   :shaka:
Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

macsak

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2014, 08:04:19 PM »
Someone plz call

from surf's links
things the board chairman should've read:

Conduct yourself in a manner that will gain the respect of your community and inspire fellow board members. DO NOT use your position to grandstand, nor take sides on issues

11.        Do not monopolize or let others monopolize the meeting by adding frequent commentary to issues discussed.   Not only is this self-serving, it lengthens the meeting.

mnpfamily

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2014, 08:12:02 PM »
No real need to complain, at this point. NHB member Paige Alton asked the HFD reps how many of the rescues they had listed were up at KH trail, the response from the firefighter [probably lost a bet or something, didn't seem to happy to be there] Was "Uhhhh, I don't know". Ms. Alton seemed prepared to take it further, but the chair decided to move the discussion along.

I'm sure it has more to do with how the HFD breaks out their info, than some deficiency with the process or the young man forced to deliver the information.

HPD reps got read the riot act as they were just as poorly prepared. Although I have to admit, the chair seemed much more "concerned" about what was presented by HPD.

I can't imagine he would actually be biased.

I posted this info in my summary of the last meeting, and I shall be attending all future meetings and posting a summary as well. The next meeting is on the 25th if anyone is interested in attending.

                                                                                                                                   :shaka:
PM sent

dafrtknocker

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2014, 05:28:04 PM »
Range was put in a cease fire today for helicopter rescue.

BLKDRGN

Google it cause every question is a dumb question.

badandy

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2014, 02:07:13 PM »
The way to do it is to ask request that HFD provide statistics for the amount of rescues, man hours, and cost for rescues that are associated with the KH trail.  If you ask in advance, they will be able to provide the information at a future meeting.  The individual delivering the statistics is required to submit any questions asked at Neighborhood Board Meetings back to HFD Administration.  They will follow up as soon as the next month's meeting.

I know for a fact that DH trail is probably the worst when it comes to rescues, especially if AIR 1 is involved.  The amount of rescues that happen over the course of a weekend due to stupidity/negligence is amazing. 

Trails have been closed in the past due to safety issues, i.e. Sacred Falls.  Might be a different situation, but still food for thought.

macsak

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2014, 02:11:00 PM »
The way to do it is to ask request that HFD provide statistics for the amount of rescues, man hours, and cost for rescues that are associated with the KH trail.  If you ask in advance, they will be able to provide the information at a future meeting.  The individual delivering the statistics is required to submit any questions asked at Neighborhood Board Meetings back to HFD Administration.  They will follow up as soon as the next month's meeting.

I know for a fact that DH trail is probably the worst when it comes to rescues, especially if AIR 1 is involved.  The amount of rescues that happen over the course of a weekend due to stupidity/negligence is amazing. 

Trails have been closed in the past due to safety issues, i.e. Sacred Falls.  Might be a different situation, but still food for thought.

i have been to at least the last 7 or 8 HKNB meetings
at every meeting, they are asked to break down the number of rescues on koko head
about every 2 or 3 times, they have a number, but it seems really low
i doubt they are that enthusiastic about reporting any rescue statistics, much less cost

mnpfamily

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2014, 02:33:04 PM »
Badandy provides good advice.  The HFD rep provides stats for the previous month's incidents.  Those stats are general in nature and pulled from a response summary for the month.  If more specific info (within reason), is needed, it would help tremendously to let them know in advance.  In the time period I looked, 2 per month for KH was about the norm. 
Like was posted, DH sees a lot of action.

oldfart

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2014, 01:23:43 AM »
There was another helicopter rescue today Thursday 2PM... Cease fire about 20 min.
What, Me Worry?

Surf

Re: Obviously Kokohead Trail is more dangerous than KHSC
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2014, 06:06:45 PM »
Yes there was another rescue on Thur.  Helo and basket time was minimal, so good job for the guys who had to make the hike up and secure the individual.  As for the statistics for location, I will simply say that they do exist in some form or another.  They may not be on a neat and simple spread sheet for reference by individual location, however we need to remember that, at the minimum, all 911 dispatched calls for Fire, Police or Ambulance have a location attached to them that is easily enough tracked.  Now how much effort is put into compiling those stats depends on the urgency, importance or the "who" is actually requesting this information and for what reason.  It does exist and tracking down similar or such information as this is not some kind of unreasonable request.  Just depends on who makes this request and the importance that they place on it.