Seatbelt point taken; a better way for me to have communicated the point would have been to say that if you compared the percentage of people fatally injured in traffic accidents who were wearing seatbelts in 1970 to the percentage of people fatally injured in traffic accidents who were wearing seatbelts today, today’s percentage would likely be higher.  But I don’t have those numbers, so can’t say for sure.

About the vaccine, did you watch the videos you posted?  The one from ABC7 didn’t say anything about the vaccinated population accounting for a growing proportion of COVID deaths; that’s just in the headline.  In the second video, the guy even makes the same point I’m making, and goes on to say “but they said it would be perfect, and it wasn’t perfect!” And shows some clips of Dr. Fauci saying something that I believe has borne out to be true… the vaccine has been extremely effective at preventing serious disease and death, if you kept up with boosters for the emerging variants.  I don’t recall anyone ever saying it would be 100% effective in preventing illness, transmission, or death.

Was there some political motivation?  Sure.  Was it “purely” political?  I don’t believe so; there was a new, dangerous disease circulating, and I believe a lot of public spirited folks were doing the best they could to get people to take steps to reduce the risk.  Some of them probably stretched the truth, which is inexcusable, but I believe the vast majority were doing the best they could with incomplete data and a politically divided population.  Was it a government-wide conspiracy to get nano-bots into your bloodstream so the 5G towers could transmit Bill Gates’s instructions?  No.

TDS caused the Science to take a back seat to politics.  Biden himself took his first COVID vaccine in December 2020, and then later claimed the vaccine wasn't available until after he became president -- trying to take credit when the facts prove he's lying.

So, yes -- politics.  I remember many in the media and entertainment saying they refused to subject their health to a vaccine that was "rushed to market" under President Trump.  Three months later, they were all on the "Get the Shot" bandwagon under Biden -- same vaccine, different frontman.

Then it became another game of "basket of deplorables," only this time with "vaccine deniers".  Anyone who questioned the safety of the vaccine was labeled a Right-wing nut job who's trying to kill other people.  Of course, they didn't stop to realize that if the vaccine worked as advertised, there was no need to fear unvaccinated people.   

Then came the booster goat rope.  You need one in 6 months, maybe another in a year.  Then it was 2 in six months.  Then it was a booster every 3-6 months in perpetuity, because it doesn't create the same level of protection against infections.  It MAY (not will) help prevent COVID deaths in those most vulnerable (elderly, obese, chronically ill), but again, they ignored factors like natural immunity and the degree of harm the vaccine might be doing to otherwise healthy people.

I haven't had the vaccine or any boosters.  My younger daughter did, and she's had some pretty lousy side effects,  Three months after the vaccine, she contracted the virus and was out of commission for 2-3 weeks ... too sick to function.  She's 33 and a healthy weight.  No underlying medical issues.  She doesn't see how the vaccine helped her at all.

Anyway, the point is, the government lied to the nation -- and the world -- about the vaccine's efficacy, safety and how often boosters are needed.  Did they lie because they just didn't know (and knew they didn't know), or did they lie because they knew the truth and hid it?  Does that matter?  They lied either way.

Honesty would have been to say how much was uncertain and let the individual choose along with their doctor's advice.  That's not what happened.

This has been beaten to death in the COVID threads.

I'm done.

Watched it.  My thoughts?  First thought is that I’d like to have that hour of my life back.  Moderately entertaining, but with no actual evidentiary value.  Long on unverifiable anecdotes and feelings, short on actual data and analysis.

So in other words you didn’t watch it

TDS caused the Science to take a back seat to politics.  Biden himself took his first COVID vaccine in December 2020, and then later claimed the vaccine wasn't available until after he became president -- trying to take credit when the facts prove he's lying.

So, yes -- politics.  I remember many in the media and entertainment saying they refused to subject their health to a vaccine that was "rushed to market" under President Trump.  Three months later, they were all on the "Get the Shot" bandwagon under Biden -- same vaccine, different frontman.

Then it became another game of "basket of deplorables," only this time with "vaccine deniers".  Anyone who questioned the safety of the vaccine was labeled a Right-wing nut job who's trying to kill other people.  Of course, they didn't stop to realize that if the vaccine worked as advertised, there was no need to fear unvaccinated people.   

Then came the booster goat rope.  You need one in 6 months, maybe another in a year.  Then it was 2 in six months.  Then it was a booster every 3-6 months in perpetuity, because it doesn't create the same level of protection against infections.  It MAY (not will) help prevent COVID deaths in those most vulnerable (elderly, obese, chronically ill), but again, they ignored factors like natural immunity and the degree of harm the vaccine might be doing to otherwise healthy people.

I haven't had the vaccine or any boosters.  My younger daughter did, and she's had some pretty lousy side effects,  Three months after the vaccine, she contracted the virus and was out of commission for 2-3 weeks ... too sick to function.  She's 33 and a healthy weight.  No underlying medical issues.  She doesn't see how the vaccine helped her at all.

Anyway, the point is, the government lied to the nation -- and the world -- about the vaccine's efficacy, safety and how often boosters are needed.  Did they lie because they just didn't know (and knew they didn't know), or did they lie because they knew the truth and hid it?  Does that matter?  They lied either way.

Honesty would have been to say how much was uncertain and let the individual choose along with their doctor's advice.  That's not what happened.

This has been beaten to death in the COVID threads.

I'm done.

I don’t really disagree with anything you said until the end…. “Lying” requires knowing what you’re saying is untrue.  IF they didn’t know all of the specifics of how the vaccine would work and whether/when you’d need boosters to keep up with a rapidly mutating virus, that’s not lying, it’s being mistaken.  In my experience, the scientists were pretty careful about using appropriate language… “Is likely to” or “will probably” or “may result in.”  Politicians and pundits weren’t so careful, and that’s what led to a lot of this back and forth and actual, real, misinformation taking root in people’s minds.  Did some people lie?  Probably, and that’s wrong, regardless of the motivation.  Is the vaccine part of some nefarious plot to kill off a significant portion of the world population (which seems to be the original point of this thread, as evidenced by the rumble movie linked above)?  I haven’t seen any real evidence of that.

So in other words you didn’t watch it

Unfortunately, I DID watch it, from title to end credits.  Not sure how I can prove it to you except to say that it focused primarily on embalmers without other formal medical training, included a couple of people they said were “Army flight surgeons,” referred to a military medical database called “DMED” that they claim was taken down (it’s online right now), and that they misrepresented what VAERS data means like so many people do in this conversation.  Is that enough proof that I watched it?

Your turn; you said if I watched it (I did) and gave you my thoughts (also did), you’d post some numbers comparing sudden unexpected deaths between pre-vaccine years and post-vaccine years.

incorrect
dr fauxi, who claims to represent "the science" (tm) stated unequivocally multiple times, and did not use appropriate language...

I don’t really disagree with anything you said until the end…. “Lying” requires knowing what you’re saying is untrue.  IF they didn’t know all of the specifics of how the vaccine would work and whether/when you’d need boosters to keep up with a rapidly mutating virus, that’s not lying, it’s being mistaken. In my experience, the scientists were pretty careful about using appropriate language… “Is likely to” or “will probably” or “may result in.”  Politicians and pundits weren’t so careful, and that’s what led to a lot of this back and forth and actual, real, misinformation taking root in people’s minds.  Did some people lie?  Probably, and that’s wrong, regardless of the motivation.  Is the vaccine part of some nefarious plot to kill off a significant portion of the world population (which seems to be the original point of this thread, as evidenced by the rumble movie linked above)?  I haven’t seen any real evidence of that.

incorrect
dr fauxi, who claims to represent "the science" stated unequivocally multiple times, and did not use appropriate language...

Can you point me to a statement like that?  I’m not familiar with any.

the latest compilation that i have handy
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/1561852063830646786
there are more...

Can you point me to a statement like that?  I’m not familiar with any.

I don’t really disagree with anything you said until the end…. “Lying” requires knowing what you’re saying is untrue.  IF they didn’t know all of the specifics of how the vaccine would work and whether/when you’d need boosters to keep up with a rapidly mutating virus, that’s not lying, it’s being mistaken.  In my experience, the scientists were pretty careful about using appropriate language… “Is likely to” or “will probably” or “may result in.”  Politicians and pundits weren’t so careful, and that’s what led to a lot of this back and forth and actual, real, misinformation taking root in people’s minds.  Did some people lie?  Probably, and that’s wrong, regardless of the motivation.  Is the vaccine part of some nefarious plot to kill off a significant portion of the world population (which seems to be the original point of this thread, as evidenced by the rumble movie linked above)?  I haven’t seen any real evidence of that.

I may not know if what i stated is true or false, however I do know I'm making a claim that I can't support with any facts. 

You don't have to knowingly make false claims to be lying.  You can make claims YOU HAVE NO IDEA as to their truthfulness, but you're presenting them as if they are true nonetheless.

Making claims you can't prove can, and do, lead to very serious consequences. 

"Take this.  It'll cure your cancer."
"What is it?"
"It's my secret formula.  Take this, and you don't need to pay for chemo."

Do I know it WON'T cure cancer?  How?  Probably never been a study -- kinda like the COVID vaccine when it was rolled out.

If you watch the videos I linked, you'll see where the promise was NOT that the vaccine made you less likely to die.  The promise was that it would PREVENT contracting, transmission and death from COVID.

What they marketed then and what the narrative is now are not the same.

I had many friends/coworkers/family call me crazy anti vaxxer.

Guess whos getting the last laugh.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

I had many friends/coworkers/family call me crazy anti vaxxer.

Guess whos getting the last laugh.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

It’s strange out there surfing with just a handful of older guys. Most spots always seemed to have a pack of uncles talking story out back but now most of the faces are under 30.

I didn’t hear Dr. Fauci make any categorical statements about the efficacy of vaccines or any other mitigation measures in that video… and, for the record, Dr. Fauci did not shut down the country.  He doesn’t have that authority.  He advised implementing measures to shut down, and then governmental executives made the decisions.

the first compilation he made multiple categorical statements about masks...

I didn’t hear Dr. Fauci make any categorical statements about the efficacy of vaccines or any other mitigation measures in that video… and, for the record, Dr. Fauci did not shut down the country.  He doesn’t have that authority.  He advised implementing measures to shut down, and then governmental executives made the decisions.

and the last video he made multiple about vaccination...

the first compilation he made multiple categorical statements about masks...

I heard one thing that could be construed as a categorical statement… “If you’re vaccinated, you’re safe; if you’re not vaccinated, you’re at risk.”  Probably an oversimplification, but hardly proof that he promised anyone that they’d have a zero percent chance of contracting COVID if they got vaccinated.  That’s a bit of a stretch.

the latest compilation that i have handy
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/1561852063830646786
there are more...

And also failed to see where he made any categorical promises or claims about mask effectiveness here. 

if you get a base hit, and the ump calls you safe, is there zero chance on that same play that you are out?
sounds categorical to me

if he said "you may be safe" it would be not categorical...

I heard one thing that could be construed as a categorical statement… “If you’re vaccinated, you’re safe; if you’re not vaccinated, you’re at risk.”  Probably an oversimplification, but hardly proof that he promised anyone that they’d have a zero percent chance of contracting COVID if they got vaccinated.  That’s a bit of a stretch.

And also failed to see where he made any categorical promises or claims about mask effectiveness here.

"masks are protective"
"there is no indication that masks have any deleterious effects"
"you do no need to wear a mask indoors if in fact you have been vaccinated"
"if you are vaccinated, you are fully protected, and you do not need to wear a mask outdoors or indoors"
and that's only the first minute...

"masks are protective"
"there is no indication that masks have any deleterious effects"
"you do no need to wear a mask indoors if in fact you have been vaccinated"
"if you are vaccinated, you are fully protected, and you do not need to wear a mask outdoors or indoors"
and that's only the first minute...

Masks ARE protective.  They afford protection.  I didn’t hear him say they were perfectly 100% effective, and that if you wore a mask you had zero chance of contracting or spreading the virus.

None of those other statements make a categorical claim about the effectiveness of either masks or vaccines.  That video is just a compilation of him saying things that may be contradictory, like maybe he changed his message after getting more data on how the virus spreads and how effective the vaccines are over time.