WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations (Read 3664 times)

drck1000

WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« on: January 07, 2023, 12:51:46 PM »
Starting a thread to share experiences and recommendations on weapon mounted lights, with particular interest in high lumen and candela.  For detailed information on lumens vs candela vs lux, please do some quick google-fu. 

I recently picked up a couple of new WML intended for use with pistols.  The Streamlight TLR7A and Surefire X300 Turbo.  I have a few X300 Ultras for a couple of ARs and pistols, we well as a few X300 (prior to Ultra).  I think the "regular" X300s are 180-200 lumen range.  I've had them on my longtime go-to HD pistols.  Long story short, for HD, I will be updating to the Streamlight TLR7A.  More on that below.

I haven't been able to test the X300 Ultra against the Turbo outside my condo.  However, I can already tell the differences in flood vs focused beam/throw.  There are a number of excellent videos where folks did outdoor testing, but the camera doesn't pick up as much as the human eye does, so I always want to test for myself.  I'll be sure to test next time I go camping at my friend's ranch property, which has large open spaces with stuff like trees, animals, etc to test lighting ID-ability at night/low light.  Overall, I think the Turbo would be a good combo with one of my ARs.  As well as maybe switching the M600DF on to a high candela light, or one with a better balance of high lumen/flood and high(er) candela.

For my condo, I like the features of the Streamlight TLRA.  It's 500 lumens and I think something like 1000-1500 candela (not much).  However, it's an improvement over the regular X300s.  I also like that the TLR7A is more compact front to back dimension than the X300s, for various reasons.  One of the more recent considerations is for CCW, where the TLR7A lens is about flush with the end of the barrel of a Glock 19, and slightly back from the end of the barrel for a Glock 17.  The lenses of the X300's get covered with carbon quickly with just dozens of rounds fired.  I'm not particularly concerned from a "real use" perspective, but just something I've noticed over years of shooting with the X300. 

macsak

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2023, 12:57:23 PM »
i have no reason to own a weapon mounted light...

changemyoil66

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2023, 04:00:39 PM »
i have no reason to own a weapon mounted light...
U mean...

"I own no WML"

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

mangosteenqueen

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2023, 08:17:45 PM »
I have a M951 that’s been adapted to use the Malkoff E2HT scout heads (powered by 16650 batteries).  It’s got a tight beam that’s perceptively not very bright indoors but it really does shine outdoors for further distances. For closer distances, I think it’s better to have something that offers more flood rather than jumping on the pure candela train. Cloud defensive offers a good balance with flood and throw, and much easier on the eyes than lights using cooler tint heads especially in heralding weather conditions or just overall spore and water particles in the air at night

Aside that I’m a sucker for warm/neutral tint lights, I’ve found that the Lumens factory neutral white bulbs are a great alternative over the Malkoff M61 drop-in bulb especially for a little less cost.

I’ve also used some handheld lights on the AR. An Armytek Dobermann Pro and a Nitecore P20i. Both are fantastic at throw and spill for both indoors and outdoors but they’re limited to momentary clicky caps on 1” ring mounts. There are wire pressure switches for them but I have not tried them but I don’t think I’d trust them either. You can almost never go wrong with the clicky cap besides the limitations to ambidexterity. The P20i is a bit hefty though.
 Pretty soon I’m hoping to grab a couple Eagtac (Eagletac) lights and see how they hold up.

zippz

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2023, 09:47:32 PM »
Depends on what type of shooting you will be doing.  Long distance rifle or indoor use.  Streamlights TLR7 series is made to be compact and doesn't throw the beam very far, it's more for closer distances, around 50 yards.  Same with the Surefire x300.

If you want something that goes out a far ways you're looking for a full sized light like the Modlite PLH, Surefire M600, or if you want a cheaper light with sacrifices, the Olight Odin.

zippz

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2023, 09:59:49 PM »
As far as pistol use goes, for the X300 Ultra & TLR7, I got both.  X300 is brighter and the switch is a little easier to use.  The TLR7 is not as bright, but I find it just as usable at pistol distances.  It's also quite a bit smaller and lighter.  I recommend getting the TLR7 for that reason.

There's more holsters that will take a x300, but TLR7 holsters are becoming more available nowadays.

drck1000

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2023, 07:45:39 AM »
I have a M951 that’s been adapted to use the Malkoff E2HT scout heads (powered by 16650 batteries).  It’s got a tight beam that’s perceptively not very bright indoors but it really does shine outdoors for further distances. For closer distances, I think it’s better to have something that offers more flood rather than jumping on the pure candela train. Cloud defensive offers a good balance with flood and throw, and much easier on the eyes than lights using cooler tint heads especially in heralding weather conditions or just overall spore and water particles in the air at night

Aside that I’m a sucker for warm/neutral tint lights, I’ve found that the Lumens factory neutral white bulbs are a great alternative over the Malkoff M61 drop-in bulb especially for a little less cost.

I’ve also used some handheld lights on the AR. An Armytek Dobermann Pro and a Nitecore P20i. Both are fantastic at throw and spill for both indoors and outdoors but they’re limited to momentary clicky caps on 1” ring mounts. There are wire pressure switches for them but I have not tried them but I don’t think I’d trust them either. You can almost never go wrong with the clicky cap besides the limitations to ambidexterity. The P20i is a bit hefty though.
 Pretty soon I’m hoping to grab a couple Eagtac (Eagletac) lights and see how they hold up.
Hand held lights are a whole different/longer subject.  I have a couple Surefire 1000/1200 lumen lights, but I think they are something like 10000 candela.  I've done lots of tests in outdoor setting, away from the city so pretty dark and the throw is quite good for what I think is SD ranges, but for area.  However, the high(er) candela shines when trying to ID if the person has something in their hands, or when there's different backlight conditions. 

I checked out Modlite and Cloud Defensive handhelds.  I think I'll get a MCH soon. 

The color of the light is something I've noticed.  Even in the same light, but produced different times.  I've noticed a wide range of white to yellowish in Surefire handhelds.  Streamlight handhelds seem to be more consistent. 

For my current testing, it's on pistol WML.  I have a high lumen M600DF on one AR.  Want to try their high candela version.  For the AR, I am really interested in the further throw of the high candela version. 

drck1000

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2023, 07:50:02 AM »
Depends on what type of shooting you will be doing.  Long distance rifle or indoor use.  Streamlights TLR7 series is made to be compact and doesn't throw the beam very far, it's more for closer distances, around 50 yards.  Same with the Surefire x300.

If you want something that goes out a far ways you're looking for a full sized light like the Modlite PLH, Surefire M600, or if you want a cheaper light with sacrifices, the Olight Odin.
The Surefire M600's throw doesn't match the high lumen like the Modlites.  Or at least the M600DF that I have.  Surefire announced their high candela version (similar to Turbo), but I haven't seen it available from vendors yet.

As far as pistol use goes, for the X300 Ultra & TLR7, I got both.  X300 is brighter and the switch is a little easier to use.  The TLR7 is not as bright, but I find it just as usable at pistol distances.  It's also quite a bit smaller and lighter.  I recommend getting the TLR7 for that reason.

There's more holsters that will take a x300, but TLR7 holsters are becoming more available nowadays.
I have a bunch of X300U, for both pistols and ARs.  I also like the TLR7 for pistol distances, especially indoors.  I didn't think the switches between the two were that different.  I actually like the TLR7 function of different presses for on or momentary.  Good point on the TLR7.  I bought a Safariland with Glock 17 and TLR7 on their Black Friday sale.  It fits really well with a 17 and 19. 

changemyoil66

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2023, 11:28:56 AM »
Bota has a thread on a review of certain lights side by side.  They included outdoor visibility.  I ended up getting the OWL because I don't like wires showing.  But this thing is like a tank. Super heavy compared to other lights.   But very durable compared to other wire showing lights.

WTF?Shane

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2023, 02:22:17 PM »
Hand held lights are a whole different/longer subject.  I have a couple Surefire 1000/1200 lumen lights, but I think they are something like 10000 candela.  I've done lots of tests in outdoor setting, away from the city so pretty dark and the throw is quite good for what I think is SD ranges, but for area.  However, the high(er) candela shines when trying to ID if the person has something in their hands, or when there's different backlight conditions. 

I checked out Modlite and Cloud Defensive handhelds.  I think I'll get a MCH soon. 

I have both with the OKW and HC dual output.

Modlite
Pros: Slightly tighter beam pattern. Not by much and not really noticeable, but something different.
Con: Tailcap switch is sensitive and had it switch on when stowed away on gear.

Cloud Defensive MCH
Pro: Dual output option makes it more versatile.
Con: Cant really think of any. Maybe the fact that it takes flat top 18350 batteries, so I have to buy more batteries.

drck1000

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2023, 07:17:57 AM »
Bota has a thread on a review of certain lights side by side.  They included outdoor visibility.  I ended up getting the OWL because I don't like wires showing.  But this thing is like a tank. Super heavy compared to other lights.   But very durable compared to other wire showing lights.
There are lots of videos showing side by side, but the videos don't show what the eye can pick up, especially for tests to see what detail you can make out in no/low light.  I'm surprised you spent the money on the OWL.  It's not cheap.  You probably spent more on the light than any of your optics.  :-\

drck1000

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2023, 07:19:48 AM »
I have both with the OKW and HC dual output.

Modlite
Pros: Slightly tighter beam pattern. Not by much and not really noticeable, but something different.
Con: Tailcap switch is sensitive and had it switch on when stowed away on gear.

Cloud Defensive MCH
Pro: Dual output option makes it more versatile.
Con: Cant really think of any. Maybe the fact that it takes flat top 18350 batteries, so I have to buy more batteries.
Thanks!  I'll eventually get around to buying and trying more handheld lights.  Right now, I'm leaning toward the MCH.  I personally don't have a need for one, but want to test and see for myself, especially now that I've tried the X300 Ultra against the Turbo. 

drck1000

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2023, 08:34:39 AM »
Did some quick comparison between the X300 Turbo and E2D Defender Ultra (1000 lumen, lower candela) last weekend in an outdoor setting.  The weather wasn't great, so didn't get to test as much as I would have liked.  The difference was noticeable with the E2D flood being wider and illuminating an area in the 50-100 yard distance well.  Where (as expected) the X300 Turbo was more focused and illuminated the same 50-100 yard zone better, but in a focused area.  I had wanted to test to further distance, but weather wasn't cooperating. 

I had a Cloud Defensive MCH EDC version to test as well, but didn't get to test it with the X300 Turbo and E2D in outdoor setting.  I did some comparison indoors and initial impressions were slight difference in beam color.  The MCH having a slight yellow tint, at least compared to the X300 Turbo.  I've seen the MCH on sale quite a bit lately. 

changemyoil66

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2023, 08:46:44 AM »
Did some quick comparison between the X300 Turbo and E2D Defender Ultra (1000 lumen, lower candela) last weekend in an outdoor setting.  The weather wasn't great, so didn't get to test as much as I would have liked.  The difference was noticeable with the E2D flood being wider and illuminating an area in the 50-100 yard distance well.  Where (as expected) the X300 Turbo was more focused and illuminated the same 50-100 yard zone better, but in a focused area.  I had wanted to test to further distance, but weather wasn't cooperating. 

I had a Cloud Defensive MCH EDC version to test as well, but didn't get to test it with the X300 Turbo and E2D in outdoor setting.  I did some comparison indoors and initial impressions were slight difference in beam color.  The MCH having a slight yellow tint, at least compared to the X300 Turbo.  I've seen the MCH on sale quite a bit lately.

Maybe post pics of the various WML?  Bota did in this thread for rifle WML's.

drck1000

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2023, 09:10:56 AM »
Maybe post pics of the various WML?  Bota did in this thread for rifle WML's.
Maybe buy your own and test for yourself. . .

Nah, can.  You are talking about the differences in beam?  Can, however the camera only picks up so much. 

changemyoil66

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2023, 09:44:59 AM »
Maybe buy your own and test for yourself. . .

Nah, can.  You are talking about the differences in beam?  Can, however the camera only picks up so much.

What ever you can do to show the differences between the lights if you got time.  I mean one could probably find this on YT.

glockfanboy808

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2023, 08:15:28 AM »
Hey quick question about edc handheld lights. I can’t decide between the cloud defense mch or the modlite plhv2 handheld for edc. Which one do you recommend? All I’m looking for is an edc light/defensive light but also reliability and durability is the main concern

drck1000

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2023, 04:10:56 PM »
Hey quick question about edc handheld lights. I can’t decide between the cloud defense mch or the modlite plhv2 handheld for edc. Which one do you recommend? All I’m looking for is an edc light/defensive light but also reliability and durability is the main concern
There are a view videos on YT that compare the two.  I recently bought a MCH EDC model.  I have been meaning to compare to my X300 Turbo, but haven't gotten around to it yet. 

From what I recall of the videos comparing the Modlite to the MCH, the main difference were the controls and prices.  Performance wise, both have models are tailored to maxmizing throw or balance of throw and flood.  There are some other differences, but they didn't interest or apply much to my intended use.  Maybe if I had a large property that warranted PID at longer distances, I would want to test the models targeting more throw. 

Another factor was I found the MCH on sale (I think 30% off on Primary Arms) and it was in stock.  Modlite availability seemes to be more spotty. 

Overall, I think reliability and durability between Modlite and CD MCH should be a wash.  Or at least for my use, they wouldn't get beat up enough to tell a difference.  The "hardest" use they would typically get is when I go camping.  Otherwise, I prefer smaller diameter body handheld lights for EDC use. 

WTF?Shane

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2023, 10:32:42 PM »
Hey quick question about edc handheld lights. I can’t decide between the cloud defense mch or the modlite plhv2 handheld for edc. Which one do you recommend? All I’m looking for is an edc light/defensive light but also reliability and durability is the main concern

MCH EDC dual output.

glockfanboy808

Re: WML (High Lumen and Candela) - Experiences and Recommendations
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2023, 06:28:56 AM »
MCH EDC dual output.

Edc head is plenty bright? Ordered edc head last night. And now wondering if I should of got the hc head