Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953 (Read 644 times)

DocMercy

Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« on: September 09, 2021, 11:19:06 AM »
This popped up on my Youtube notifications.



There are drafts of bill 4953 floating around and some of the language would establish a tax on long arms. Seriously greedy of the gubmint. I have long suspected that the left would take a case to the Supreme Court to legally define what "arms" should be in 18th century language. Long arms of that time consisted of muzzle loaders. A strict interpretation of the Constitution could argue that semi-automatics do not fit the arcane definition, and therefore, are subject to regulations, and TAX. The government loves to overreach, and we should start writing our representative to tax more meaningful things like billboards that annoy motorists. :grrr:

6716J

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2021, 11:24:54 AM »
i guess freedom of speech only covers paper and quill based on the interpretations
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

groveler

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2021, 11:56:51 AM »
This popped up on my Youtube notifications.



There are drafts of bill 4953 floating around and some of the language would establish a tax on long arms. Seriously greedy of the gubmint. I have long suspected that the left would take a case to the Supreme Court to legally define what "arms" should be in 18th century language. Long arms of that time consisted of muzzle loaders. A strict interpretation of the Constitution could argue that semi-automatics do not fit the arcane definition, and therefore, are subject to regulations, and TAX. The government loves to overreach, and we should start writing our representative to tax more meaningful things like billboards that annoy motorists. :grrr:
Could be argued that "Arms" were at the time the most modern weapons available to both civilian and military.
I'd  argue for ALL 21st century modern firearms, as Arms and settle for light weapons a single man can carry.
 :thumbsup:

RSN172

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2021, 12:40:06 PM »
I doubt such a bill would pass.  Too many politicians would be afraid of losing their seat if they voted for it.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2021, 02:01:09 PM »
Could be argued that "Arms" were at the time the most modern weapons available to both civilian and military.
I'd  argue for ALL 21st century modern firearms, as Arms and settle for light weapons a single man can carry.
 :thumbsup:

Actually, the term "arms" has been interpreted to mean any weapons that a person might be able to carry.  Knives, swords, pistols, muskets, .... All were considered arms in the 1700s.

As arms technology progressed for the government-funded military, the same technology was available to the public.  The Heller decision ruled that "arms" may include those weapons which a military infantryman might carry into battle.  Basically, the public has the right to be at least as well armed as the infantry.

So, your argument is supported by the Supreme Court.

Quote
(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation. Neither United States
v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, nor Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, refutes the individual-rights
interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear
arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those
used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes.
Pp. 47–54.

The "in common use" phrase will be the one that stops AR-15 bans, being that the AR-15 is the most popular rifle in the country.
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

changemyoil66

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2021, 04:16:53 PM »
Yet in HI, they tried last year.  And only because of testimony, did they remove that part out of the rifle mag ban bill.  So basically, it would have passed if we didn't do anything.

Then add in the AWB federal bills that come around every year.  The one that named every make and model.  It only failed because they didn't have enough voted to push it on (GOP voted nay)

eyeeatingfish

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2021, 07:30:03 PM »
I get the feeling this could not pass constitutional muster. You can tax guns just like other items in the form of sales taxes but a specific tax of something related to a constitutional right to own? Like if voting required a specific ID that cost $500, can't burden a freedom in that manner.

6716J

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2021, 07:52:28 AM »
I get the feeling this could not pass constitutional muster. You can tax guns just like other items in the form of sales taxes but a specific tax of something related to a constitutional right to own? Like if voting required a specific ID that cost $500, can't burden a freedom in that manner.

You say this like you think the Constitution matters to them. As has been very evident this week, the Constitution is something they wipe their ass with. At this point with government systems, the MO is write a bill, mandate or whatever and enact it. The courts can fight it out for years. And in the courts we pay for both sides of the litigation. As plaintiff and in tax dollars for the defense.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2021, 09:37:13 PM »
You say this like you think the Constitution matters to them. As has been very evident this week, the Constitution is something they wipe their ass with.

What case are you referring to?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2021, 09:48:50 PM »
What case are you referring to?

Biden knows his vax mandates are unconstitutional —
but just doesn’t care


https://nypost.com/2021/09/10/biden-knows-his-vax-mandates-are-unconstitutional-but-doesnt-care/
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2021, 06:27:30 PM »
Biden knows his vax mandates are unconstitutional —
but just doesn’t care


https://nypost.com/2021/09/10/biden-knows-his-vax-mandates-are-unconstitutional-but-doesnt-care/

I was thinking about the SCOTUS when I made my comment. No doubt Biden would drive right over it.

hvybarrels

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Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2021, 09:52:04 AM »
Like his approval ratings are driving right over a cliff?

A lot of people called Trump a tyrant, and now they realize that Biden is everything they falsely accused Trump of. And they voted for it!

6716J

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2021, 12:36:48 PM »
What case are you referring to?
Start with the "Affordable Care Act" it's a penalty not a tax or vice-versus scheme. The first time that the government has made the public buy a product whether or not they want to purchase it or even use it
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2021, 04:57:43 PM »
Start with the "Affordable Care Act" it's a penalty not a tax or vice-versus scheme. The first time that the government has made the public buy a product whether or not they want to purchase it or even use it

Of course it was a tax, it was always a tax. They just tried to sell it as not a tax.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2021, 05:10:30 PM »
Of course it was a tax, it was always a tax. They just tried to sell it as not a tax.

That's the point.

The Dems lied in order to pass the ACA bill.  They were asked about the mandate, and they responded with, "It's not a tax.  if's a fee, or a fine for not having insurance.  We charge people fees all the time to pay for government programs."

Then, when challenged on the Constitutionality of the mandate (Congress can't pass a law to collect fees -- only taxes), they changed the story to, "Of course it's a tax."

This is the unconstitutional part.  They violated the Constitution, then changed the LAW, and then acted like it was all good.  In reality, the entire bill should have been struck down by the court. Congress should have been told to redo the ACA with the proper tax language in it.  Nobody voted on a tax bill.  They voted on a bill without any new taxes. 

They didn't want to start over, because it was difficult enough to push it down our throats while they had control of the House (100% of Dems voted yes, 100% of Republicans voted no). 

This would not be such a problem if the ACA didn't represent the largest tax and spend program in US history, and a jumping off point to push the country toward single-payer healthcare for all.  Single-payer (or government-run) healthcare couldn't succeed until the insurance industry was destroyed.  Obama said exactly that in a speech he gave before he ran for President.

Also, there has never been such a massive tax plan passed by a single party vote.  They always had bipartisan support for the bills, because it's understood that something so large and complicated needs buy-in from all sides to be successfully implemented.  We saw how screwed up the Obamacare roll-out was.  Had to delay it for another 6 months to fix the basic websites.
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

macsak

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2021, 05:27:29 PM »
That's the point.

The Dems lied in order to pass the ACA bill.  They were asked about the mandate, and they responded with, "It's not a tax.  if's a fee, or a fine for not having insurance.  We charge people fees all the time to pay for government programs."

Then, when challenged on the Constitutionality of the mandate (Congress can't pass a law to collect fees -- only taxes), they changed the story to, "Of course it's a tax."

This is the unconstitutional part.  They violated the Constitution, then changed the LAW, and then acted like it was all good.  In reality, the entire bill should have been struck down by the court. Congress should have been told to redo the ACA with the proper tax language in it.  Nobody voted on a tax bill.  They voted on a bill without any new taxes. 

They didn't want to start over, because it was difficult enough to push it down our throats while they had control of the House (100% of Dems voted yes, 100% of Republicans voted no). 

This would not be such a problem if the ACA didn't represent the largest tax and spend program in US history, and a jumping off point to push the country toward single-payer healthcare for all.  Single-payer (or government-run) healthcare couldn't succeed until the insurance industry was destroyed.  Obama said exactly that in a speech he gave before he ran for President.

Also, there has never been such a massive tax plan passed by a single party vote.  They always had bipartisan support for the bills, because it's understood that something so large and complicated needs buy-in from all sides to be successfully implemented.  We saw how screwed up the Obamacare roll-out was.  Had to delay it for another 6 months to fix the basic websites.

goalpost moved...

ren

Re: Tax All Rifles And Shotguns You Own - HR 4953
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2021, 05:58:39 PM »
goalpost aborted! Not a life.