2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Reloading => Topic started by: rklapp on January 18, 2017, 06:35:21 PM
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Welcome to my reloading thread where I display the good and bad of my reloading process. I focus more on consistency rather than accuracy, so I don't rely on OCW or other established methods. My goal is to figure out what works and to have fun. As Inspector describes it, "The title to his post is his adventure/misadventure in reloading. So I have decided to take this posting as more of a story or a novel rather than a serious attempt at trying to ascertain relevant information to attain an ultimate goal. Therefore I believe his questions and requests for help are actually rhetorical and are just his way of saying his findings are curious to him rather than actually asking us for his help. I could certainly be wrong. But I think this post is just his attempt to share information and tell his story." Well said.
My reloading equipment:
Lee single stage press,
Hornady Bench Scale,
Lee/RCBS measurers,
Lyman expanding powder trickler,
Lee Pacesetter dies,
RCBS neck sizing die for bolt action 54r,
Lee gauges and drill case trimmer,
Ultrasonic cleaner,
Lee recapping die,
Hornady tumbler with corn cob media,
I initially was using photobucket but they're assholes now so switched over to using Facebook. Update: the photos linked to Facebook seem to be disappearing after about three months. I'm now trying Imgur for photo hosting.
Planning KSC on Friday with MN 9130 and AR15.
1) Hornady 174 gn RN .312" with 35.5 to 35.9 gn Win748
2) Hornady 174 gn FMJBT .3105" with 35 to 39 gn Rx15
3) Hornady 55 gn FMJBT with 19 to 23 gn H335
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Shackles don't hold up well when you shoot them with a x39 bullet. Need to get a new one for my 8" gong (in a non-sexual way).
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Shackles don't hold up well when you shoot them with a x39 bullet. Need to get a new one for my 8" gong (in a non-sexual way).
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You been hanging around this forum too long
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I would like to brag that my 8" gong did that to my shackle but it was my bullets that did it in.
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You been hanging around this forum too long
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Planning KSC on Friday with MN 9130 and AR15.
1) Hornady 174 gn RN .312" with 35.5 to 35.9 gn Win748
2) Hornady 174 gn FMJBT .3105" with 35 to 39 gn Rx15
3) Hornady 55 gn FMJBT with 19 to 23 gn H335
Please post your results. Your .223 load is quite light from my experience but still interested in your results.
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My 100 yd results from last week using the 69 gn HPBT that Oldfart sold me. Target 1 in the upper left is my new VEPR x39. Zeroing in the scope. Targets 2 through 6 are 20 to 24 gn H335. I had some trouble zeroing the scope but got it working after the first five in target 2. The 22 gn has the best grouping. I thought the 24 gn was a bit too hot with some flattening of the primers but there were no other OP signs. That's why I turned it down a grain for the next loads.
I shoot five of each in four sets so 20 bullets for each target. I had two misfires with the 20 and 22 gn groups. When I pulled the bullets, they looked wet. I think I didn't allow the cases to dry enough when I washed them. At first I thought it was a problem with the CCI primers. I previously thought my rifle doesn't like the heavier bullets because I tried the 62 gn Amscor bullets but Inspector said they're crap and didn't work for him either. I was pleasantly surprised when the 69 gn worked well.
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I'd put a rest under your stock and bring the stock up higher on your shoulder. Your head should be upright.
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That's an old photo. The scope has changed and using The Rock Jr. Below is a more recent photo. I'm using 1" scope rings but would like it higher, just haven't found any I like or cheap. I'm thinking of a cantilever mount to move the scope forward but none seem like they're high enough. Perhaps I'll try a rail riser and hopefully still see the target.
I'd put a rest under your stock and bring the stock up higher on your shoulder. Your head should be upright.
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I thought the 24 gn was a bit too hot with some flattening of the primers but there were no other OP signs. That's why I turned it down a grain for the next loads.
The primer flattening happened with 24gr of H335 with a 69gr bullet? You are now going to a 55gr FMJBT? The 69 likely had a larger bearing surface and possibly a longer COAL than the 55. Apples and oranges. It is good that you are starting on the low side and working up though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That's an old photo. The scope has changed and using The Rock Jr. Below is a more recent photo. I'm using 1" scope rings but would like it higher, just haven't found any I like or cheap. I'm thinking of a cantilever mount to move the scope forward but none seem like they're high enough. Perhaps I'll try a rail riser and hopefully still see the target.
here's a mount
https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/freedom-reaper-picantinny-rail-matte-black.html (https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/freedom-reaper-picantinny-rail-matte-black.html)
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I'm using this mount.
https://www.amazon.com/Primary-Arms-Deluxe-Extended-Scope/dp/B00FGGINA2/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1484899401&sr=1-3-fkmr1&keywords=Primary+Arms+High+Cantilever+scope+Mount
Can run nose to the charging handle with this mount.
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/Mobile%20Uploads/20161004_235109_zps0kolmmcy.jpg) (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/heaviescc/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161004_235109_zps0kolmmcy.jpg.html)
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That looks about as high as the existing scope rings I have. Despite my skinny arms, I'm rather broad shouldered. If my nose was up to CH, would I need to angle my head so much. Only one way to find out. Thank God for Amazon Prime.
I bought x39 at JHara for $19 per 20 on sale so I can contemplate reloading for my VEPR. I was heading to the range this morning but was blocked. Maybe tomorrow...
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After my abortive attempt to go to the range Saturday, I made it today. At least it didn't rain today. I decided not to shoot the AR-15 to 100 yards with the nasty winds so stayed at 50 yards. Trying out my new bulk Hornady 55 gn FMJBT bullets. Target #1 on upper left were practice rounds with 20 gn ARcomp. Target #2 in upper right was 19 gn H335. Next row was 20 and 21. Next was 22 and 23. I shoot 5 each 4 times for a total of 20 each target. If I felt cocky, then I'd shoot the metal target but it kept flipping up on me so need to make it shorter. For the 8" gong, I bought a replacement shackle for the one I shot last week but it was too big to fit through the chain so used an aluminum clip which worked fine with the .223 but shattered with one 150 gn from my 91/30. I'd say 21, 22, and 23 were equally good groups so probably try 21 to 23 in half gn next time.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1318.jpg)
22 and 23 gn H335
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1319_1.jpg)
23 gn H335. Almost shot out the black.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1323_1.jpg)
MN 91/30 with 1x reddot scope. I discovered that the new white paper is too bright for the scope. I saved the RN/Win748 rounds until next time when I can see the red center with the black target instead. I did try the new Hornady 174 gn FMJBT .3105" with 35 to 39 gn Rx15. These were advertised as .312 but Cabela gave me a discount. The 35 to 37 groups at the bottom were crap, but the 38 and 39 tightened up. I'll try 38 to 40 gn in half grain next time.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1320.jpg)
For my VEPR x39, I bought Federal for $19 per 20 at JHara so I can eventually reload the brass. My crap 9x scope was throwing my Tulammo all over but finally got it on target. Pissed me off because I just replaced the vertical frame and then shot it four times. Grr... The Federal was awesome and I was able to recover 12 of the 15 cases. I have 25 more rounds left but saved it for another time.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1322.jpg)
I didn't clean my 1911-22lr after the last trip and this time, it slaughtered the gopher. About half the holes are new. I shall have to resist my OCD to clean the pistol and try it again dirty.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/27fda349-ee36-4c25-91d2-08036a3adb44.jpg)
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Are you using a bipod/bag with your .223? First pic of group shots. Also what kind of scope or red dot are you using? (Maybe already mentioned, didn't read fully through).
Nice shots it's rather windy today!
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Are you using a bipod/bag with your .223? First pic of group shots.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007Y8SBW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007Y8SBW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Also what kind of scope or red dot are you using? (Maybe already mentioned, didn't read fully through).
AR-15: Bushnell 16x
MN 91/30: 1x reddot dovetail
VEPR x39: Nikko 9x.
Nice shots it's rather windy today!
Mahalo.
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Fun day at the range. Got there at 12:20 and went on the waiting list until 1:00. By 3:00, the place was mostly empty.
AR-15 Varmint: Hornady 55 gn FMJ with 21 to 23 gn H335. I added a half inch riser to the scope and moved it an inch forward. I think the scope rezerod fine. I also have a .83" riser but gonna save that for the new 300 Blackout upper I bought. I'm also waiting for my new Vortex Crossfire II to arrive. Today's load was the same as last week except at 100 yards and less wind, mostly. Upper left target was zero and warmup. Upper right is 21 gn, next row is 21.5 and 22 gn, next row is 22.5 and 23 gn. I could be having a bad eye day because I was spraying bullets all around except for 23 gn. I glued the 4" targets in hopes that I would see it better with my 1x reddot scope, which wasn't the case so switch back to the large black targets.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1364.jpg)
23 gn H335. This actually matches last week's results. I have another bottle of H335 so could try between 22.6 and 23 gn, but I think I'll try a different powder. I also really like these bullets so probably stick with them for awhile. I ended up with 488 out of 500 in the box so Elite Reloading is mailing me an extra 25.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1366.jpg)
MN 91/30: Hornady 174 gn .312" RN with 35.5 to 35.9 gn Win758 on the left and Hornady 174 gn .3105" FMJ with 38 to 40 Rx15 on right. On left, the 35.7 grouped best. This was the last of the RN batch, but I'll definitely order more when the time comes. On right, I'll try again between 39.1 and 39.5. Notice that the holes are mostly vertical with the .312" bullet and mostly to the left with the .3105" bullet perhaps due to the wind from the right. The thicker bullets are definitely more accurate but the massive bullets are fun to shoot.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/b820e8f7-462e-4406-ab6d-f18fd7b42dd1.png)
My 4" Target of Mass Destruction has seen better days.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1369.jpg)
Damn ricochet...
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1373.jpg)
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If I may make a suggestion.....
If you are going to continue using those 55gr Hornady FMJ, it looks like your group is starting to tighten up at 23gr. Hodgdon's website says the max load is 25.3. So unless you have already gone there, maybe increase your loads by 0.5 grains and try 23.5, 24.0, 24.5 and maybe 25.0. I know my best groups with 55 gr Sierra was with 24.0 or 24.5gr of H335. At work at the moment so I am doing this by memory. Generally speaking, I have found with the .223/5.56 cartridge that most of my best groups with H335 came in at around 1.0gr less than posted maximum. This is not a rule of thumb, just an observation from consistent load data.
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I appreciate it. That's likely the next step with the second bottle of H335 I have. Problem is that I'm bored with this powder now and want to try something else. The guy next to me at the range was shooting TAC in his .223 and that's his preferred powder. They actually have a lot of data for it. Dammit, there's always another powder to try, and I just bought two bottles of IMR4895.
If I may make a suggestion.....
If you are going to continue using those 55gr Hornady FMJ, it looks like your group is starting to tighten up at 23gr. Hodgdon's website says the max load is 25.3. So unless you have already gone there, maybe increase your loads by 0.5 grains and try 23.5, 24.0, 24.5 and maybe 25.0. I know my best groups with 55 gr Sierra was with 24.0 or 24.5gr of H335. At work at the moment so I am doing this by memory. Generally speaking, I have found with the .223/5.56 cartridge that most of my best groups with H335 came in at around 1.0gr less than posted maximum. This is not a rule of thumb, just an observation from consistent load data.
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I appreciate it. That's likely the next step with the second bottle of H335 I have. Problem is that I'm bored with this powder now and want to try something else. The guy next to me at the range was shooting TAC in his .223 and that's his preferred powder. They actually have a lot of data for it. Dammit, there's always another powder to try, and I just bought two bottles of IMR4895.
Sounds like you got the bug bad!!! :shake: :shake: :shake: I wish there was a cure for it but once you start you won't be satisfied until you have tried just about every powder available. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Seriously though I still have 4 or 5 bottles of different powders I intend to try someday. The problem is I have a lot of my preferred powders. What is a reloader to do?
I have not used TAC but it is in the same burn rate area as the IMR4895 that you have. And it is in the range of some powders I have tried. It might be in that range where it may not work as well for lighter bullets (55gr) as it will for heavier bullets (64gr+). But you never know until you try. Try it and let us know what you think of it.
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Sounds like you got the bug bad!!! :shake: :shake: :shake: I wish there was a cure for it but once you start you won't be satisfied until you have tried just about every powder available. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Seriously though I still have 4 or 5 bottles of different powders I intend to try someday. The problem is I have a lot of my preferred powders. What is a reloader to do?
I have not used TAC but it is in the same burn rate area as the IMR4895 that you have. And it is in the range of some powders I have tried. It might be in that range where it may not work as well for lighter bullets (55gr) as it will for heavier bullets (64gr+). But you never know until you try. Try it and let us know what you think of it.
Dammit, now I have an excuse to buy more 69 gn bullets from oldfart. :geekdanc:
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It seems like you are trying to achieve great accuracy.
When you expect to get your new scope in? That will make a great difference.
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I'd stick with 77s.
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UPS transferred the shipment to USPS for delivery so any month now.
It seems like you are trying to achieve great accuracy.
When you expect to get your new scope in? That will make a great difference.
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Lovely day at the range today. It was only half full with no wind. The guys to my right were shooting a 1910 era lever action 30-30. I told them that their problem is that the rifle is only accurate while riding a horse and possibly with a cowboy hat. The guy on my left was shooting a new black powder rifle. Although it uses powder slugs, it still seemed like a lot of work.
Finally got to use my 300 BLK upper. I moved the Barska x18 from the AR-15. I tried using a .83" riser but couldn't zero the scope so took it off.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1437_1.jpg)
I loaded 50 rounds of 1680 powder from 15 to 19 gn using Hornady 130 gn SP bullets at 50 yards. No issues with cycling rounds. However, it took me 25 rounds to figure out that the riser wasn't working, 15 rounds to zero in after removing the riser, and ten rounds in the red. I could have been more accurate at the end, but I was too excited about the results.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1438_1.jpg)
MN 91/30. Rx15 at 39.1 to 39.5 gn and Hornady .3105" FMJBT bullets at 50 yards. I hit the metal target at 100 yards 4 out of 5 times. The 39.4 gn were the most accurate, and these were the last of the batch. I did buy Speer .311" bullets because they were cheap. We'll see...
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1439_1.jpg)
MN 91/30. Win748 at 35 to 37 gn and Hornady .312" SP at 50 yards. These have worked well for me in the past at 35 gn of Rx15. The results with this powder were inconsistent. The 35.5 gn were not accurate and the 36 gn were the most. I hit the metal target 3 out of 5 times. Probably will try 36 to 36.5 gn next time.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1443_1.jpg)
I bought another mount for the VEPR x39 scope. I shot 15 reloadable rounds and was only able to recover 10. As someone said, it's amazing how brass is able to disappear. I bought another clip for my brass catcher but I realized I need to get 1" scope rings for it as well.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1441_1.jpg)
I'm having trouble using Photobucket to insert photos. Let me know if you have a better alternative.
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I actually don't mind case prep.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1448.jpg)
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Odd day at the range today. I didn't feel accurate. The first 20 to 30 shots were large groups and the following were better, perhaps after the bore heated up. The trend was happening with the AR-15 and VEPR x39 but not with the 300 BLK.
AR-15 with 55 gn FMJBT at 19 to 23 gn CFE223. From the upper left, target 2 is 19 gn, 3 is 20 gn, 5 is 21 gn, 6 is 22 gn, and 9 is 23 gn. Target 8 is the initial shots of the 300 BLK at 19 and 20 gn A1680. I tried out my new Vortex Crossfire II scope. The picture was really clear, but I wasn't happy with the inconsistent results. I started at 100 yards but was spraying bullets with 4 inch groups. The bell rang after the first ten shots, then I moved the frame to 50 yards. The results were better with the 22 gn grouping best. I'll probably try 21.7 to 22.5 gn next time. I removed the .5" riser I had on it and moved the scope back an inch cause I think it was too far forward. The asshat screw on the riser was frozen and had to drill it out so back to Amazon it goes.
300 BLK. These are the new .308 FMJBT 147 gn bulk bullets at 18 cents each and using 21 to 23 gn A1680. The main point was to determine if they were accurate with these 30 rounds at 50 yards. I think they'll do. I'll try 100 yards next time. I did have a bit of trouble with the 22 gn set with the rifle not cocking, but I think it was a problem with the lower receiver. It seemed to clear up with the 23 gn set so will give a more thorough cleaning.
VEPR x39. I made 50 rounds of .310" SP 123 gn and these were the 25 to 27 gn H335. The 27 to 29 grouped less, so will probably try 26 to 27 gn next time. I was happy to recover all 50 cases considering how far they're thrown. I'm planning to add the brass catcher when my 1" scope rings arrive.
I shot 8 rounds of the 300 BLK and hit the chain on the 4" target plus a shackle on the 8". I also smacked it around a bit with the other rifles.
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AR-15 with 55 gn FMJBT at 19 to 23 gn CFE223. From the upper left, target 2 is 19 gn, 3 is 20 gn, 5 is 21 gn, 6 is 22 gn, and 9 is 23 gn. Target 8 is the initial shots of the 300 BLK at 19 and 20 gn A1680. I tried out my new Vortex Crossfire II scope. The picture was really clear, but I wasn't happy with the inconsistent results. I started at 100 yards but was spraying bullets with 4 inch groups. The bell rang after the first ten shots, then I moved the frame to 50 yards. The results were better with the 22 gn grouping best. I'll probably try 21.7 to 22.5 gn next time.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1471.jpg)
What are your goals with this load if you don't mind me asking? If "best possible accuracy" is desired with this load, increasing with 1 gr increments with a 223 is too large a gap. You could possibly completely miss a node and not know it.
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What are your goals with this load if you don't mind me asking? If "best possible accuracy" is desired with this load, increasing with 1 gr increments with a 223 is too large a gap. You could possibly completely miss a node and not know it.
Yeah, that's why I said my next batch will be between 21.7 and 22.5. I'll make it in 0.2 gn increments. The next load after that will probably be in 0.1 increments. Usually by that time, I get bored with the load and switch to a different bullet/powder combo. I recently bought Hornady 62 gn bullets that are burning a hole in my reloading shelf, so I might try it with IMR4895 or Varget if I can my hands on a couple bottles later today. Going back to H335 or CFE223 are also possibilities.
The question is how much confidence to I have in my new Vortex scope. The Barska x18 I transferred over to my 300 BLK worked flawlessly, but that was at 50 yards also. A successful day at range means you walk away with more questions than answers.
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The question is how much confidence to I have in my new Vortex scope. The Barska x18 I transferred over to my 300 BLK worked flawlessly, but that was at 50 yards also. A successful day at range means you walk away with more questions than answers.
I got a Vortex PST 1-4x for service rifle matches since they are allowed now and I'm pretty impressed with the tracking on this PI made scope. Its been repeatable so far.
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Yeah, that's why I said my next batch will be between 21.7 and 22.5. I'll make it in 0.2 gn increments. The next load after that will probably be in 0.1 increments.
For accuracy wise, not sure you're grasping the concept but carry on. :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
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I got a Vortex PST 1-4x for service rifle matches since they are allowed now and I'm pretty impressed with the tracking on this PI made scope. Its been repeatable so far.
I took the riser off so hopefully that will increase repeatability. I added the riser in an attempt to keep my head more upright. I was going to move it over to the 300 BLK but one of the screws were frozen so I had to drill it out. Back to Amazon it goes...
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For accuracy wise, not sure you're grasping the concept but carry on. :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
So what are you saying?
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I think your scope is too far back.
Get into position and then mount the scope.
Make sure your head is upright as much as possible.
For reference:
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt2/Rennster/VortexonAR_zpsnw2rq8mb.jpeg)
This is what NTCH looks like for me. Most shooters that have transitioned to optics from irons have the ocular close to the brass deflector. This is shooting from standing, sitting and prone.
CHeck out these loads here:
http://precision.whiteoakarmament.com/info-reloading.html (http://precision.whiteoakarmament.com/info-reloading.html)
With the AR most load development has already been done.
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So what are you saying?
There's many theories as to what gets the best accuracy (ie optimum barrel time, harmonics, optimum charge weight, etc...). You may or may not be on that quest, I don't know. With 223 and the small amount of powder involved, 1 gr is too much of a spread if the search for accuracy is the goal. You should see a far spread with your groups than tighten up than spread back out. That's how you know you are reaching a node. I would say load 3-5 rounds (depending on shooters skill and ability) at .5 gr preferably .3grn increments. Shoot groups allowing barrel to cool. Where you see the groups tighten up, load a few in .1 grn increments up and down of that load. With a magnified optic, I would expect quite a bit better just my opinion. Faster burning powder like H335 would be best in the lighter 223 bullets.
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There's many theories as to what gets the best accuracy (ie optimum barrel time, harmonics, optimum charge weight, etc...). You may or may not be on that quest, I don't know. With 223 and the small amount of powder involved, 1 gr is too much of a spread if the search for accuracy is the goal. You should see a far spread with your groups than tighten up than spread back out. That's how you know you are reaching a node. I would say load 3-5 rounds (depending on shooters skill and ability) at .5 gr preferably .3grn increments. Shoot groups allowing barrel to cool. Where you see the groups tighten up, load a few in .1 grn increments up and down of that load.
Yes, generally that's what happens except I shoot groups of 20 instead of 3 to 5. Just my preference. If I did it the way you mention, my trip to the range would last 30 minutes and that's no fun. I do give it a short break in between loading the next 5 round set, but I admit that I tend to rush things when I'm having fun. I'd say my quest is to discover what works best so I can decide what to try next time.
With a magnified optic, I would expect quite a bit better just my opinion. Faster burning powder like H335 would be best in the lighter 223 bullets.
I've already done that and moved on. I do agree that I shoulda had better results with a scope, even if it is brand new. Either it's weather related or a problem with the riser that I just removed or maybe I was having an off day. I look forward to my next visit to the range to find out. :shaka:
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I think your scope is too far back.
Get into position and then mount the scope.
Make sure your head is upright as much as possible.
This is what NTCH looks like for me. Most shooters that have transitioned to optics from irons have the ocular close to the brass deflector. This is shooting from standing, sitting and prone.
My scope looks more like this but probably one more rail forward.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6_SetSnPSvM/maxresdefault.jpg)
Check out these loads here:
http://precision.whiteoakarmament.com/info-reloading.html (http://precision.whiteoakarmament.com/info-reloading.html)
With the AR most load development has already been done.
Probably, but I like to find out for myself. That's why I shoot 20 rounds each instead of 3. I do appreciate the feedback. Otherwise, I wouldn't post my results here.
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Conditions were great at the range today. Unfortunately, I had to wait two cycles on the wait list. I think many people decided to go today before the rains start up again this weekend. By 3:50, I told the RO that I was done, and he called the cease fire since I was the last one remaining.
MN 91/30: I tried the new Speer 180 gn bullets from 35 to 39 gn Rx15.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1484.jpg)
I didn't adjust the elevation but made minor adjustments to the windage. The 35 gn were on the bottom and 39 gn on the top. The 37 gn grouped really well in the middle. What's interesting is the gap between the 38 gn and the 39 gn on top. I'll try 36 to 38 next time. Not too bad for 20 cents per bullet (plus shipping).
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1485.jpg)
Turns out I had 25 more bullets of the Hornady .3105" FMJBT so decided to make all 25 with the same powder load of Rx15 at 39.4 gn at 50 yards. I suppose this is the best accuracy I can expect from these thinner bullets. It seemed to go in two groups on top and bottom. The one on the far left is from the guy in the next table over who I let use. Not bad since it was the first time he shot a Mosin.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1486.jpg)
AR-15: Still not happy with the results but thought the rounds were pretty to look at. I suspected that my problems I had last week were from the CFE223 so I switched to ARcomp. The groups are still 5" when I was able to get 2" groups at 100 yards with the same bullets. My next focus is on the only difference between then and now... the new Vortex x18 scope with the Nikon P-series mount. I have until 4/19 to return the scope so I have some time to figure this out. I plan to move the Barska x18 scope from the 300 BLK back to the AR-15 to see if I can restore it's previous glory. We'll see...
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1487.jpg)
I also modified my VEPR x39 with higher scope mounts and plan to add bumpers to the dust cover to prevent the damage to my cases. Because of the wait list, I didn't have time to use the 300 BLK.
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I started out with the MN 91/30 today but discovered that I left the reddot light on and I couldn't find my backup battery. Doh! Last night, I attempted to load the Speer bullets with Reloader 15 then discovered I loaded with ARcomp instead. I checked the Alliant website and they have reasonable load data for .308 bullets so I decided to see how they do. I shot five from the ARcomp and five from the W748 and was impressed. Not accurate when your reddot has no dot. The ARcomp were a bit higher than the W748.
The VEPR x39 worked well with the .310" Hornady 123 gn bullets and H335 powder at 26.2 to 27.0 gn. The 26.8 and 27.0 grouped well. Will try 26.6 to 27.0 next time. I'm trying to eliminate the case gouging that happens when the case hits the dust cover. I filed away part of the edge and applied a gel. It sorta worked but I need to file more along the top and apply more gel. Shooting the round tends to straighten out most of the gouge but not for long. The RO helped me find my brass in the grass because I'm red/green color blind. I lost four but he found two that weren't mine, so not bad.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/0276d2f1-0556-4929-93a2-0239f7843a45.png)
300 BLK. Still having scope issues, but I think I've narrowed it down to my mounting technique. I have the torque screwdriver kit on order and will probably arrive Tuesday. It could also be the Nikon P-series mount I'm using. I had to move the mount over from the AR-15 because the 300 BLK ring mount screws broke off when I tried to tighten it back on. No matter how much I turned the windage, I couldn't get the 300 BLK scope to move left.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/54d3fb6f-937f-4a21-8c32-22613d0deeab.png)
I shot up the 8" gong with the VEPR until I shot the left chain. With the shackles, it was easily repaired. The 6" gong kept flipping over so I'll need to shorten the chains which I was trying to avoid so it can make a more satisfying klong! sound while at full length.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/2.jpg)
An Australian showed up riding a bicycle. He said he was riding by, heard the noise, and stopped to check it out. I asked the RO if he can borrow eye and ear protection, then offered to let him use my AK47. This was the first time he shot a firearm. He didn't hit the metal targets but was able to break the chain again. I emailed him this photo, and he said he was going to send it to his mother so he can show her what he's doing in America.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/4.jpg)
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I don't think handing a gun to a random stranger was a good idea.
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Maybe. The ROs seemed appreciative. What they didn't appreciate was the guy a couple tables over who kept carrying his .22 rifle past the yellow line and pointing it everywhere. After about the third violation, the RO had to take him aside and give him a good talking to.
I don't think handing a gun to a random stranger was a good idea.
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It was a Russian day at the range today with my Mosin Nagant and AK-47. My Wheeler kit finally arrived so I can properly mount the scopes on my AR-15 and 300BLK... but not yet. What was weird today was that the wind was coming from the mauka side of Kokohead instead of makai which was messing up my brass deflector with the VEPR. Surprisingly, I only lost one brass. I glued a rubber bumper along the dust cover which worked well and stopped gauging my brass.
VEPR x39: 50 rounds of H335 26.6 to 27.0 gn with .310" Hornady 123 gn. I zerod the scope with Tulammo and Federal on a different target which worked well. The lower load rounds went to the right, so I adjusted the scope after each load. Overall, I'd have to say that the 26.9 gn grouped well but it's hard to tell. Guess it's time to try 100 yards.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19693498_10213165436640831_2344855274037888810_o.jpg?oh=4dfc3295ebdbc5bda04a24b4636a424a&oe=5A0FCE28)
MN 91/30: Top, the last of the Win748 from 36 to 36.4 gn with .312" Hornady 150 gn. The 36.3 gn grouped best. The first load was weird with two in the bullseye and two about four inches away.
Middle: This was the ARcomp 36 to 38 gn loads that I accidentally loaded and the new .311" Speer 180 gn. I actually like this combo. I had to lower the scope by 3 MOA to stay on paper. The 36.5 gn grouped best, so I'll try 36.1 to 36.5 gn next time.
Bottom: IMR4895 from 36 to 40 gn with Hornady 150 gn. The first two shots were below paper, so I had to raise the scope 3 MOA to where it was before. The 38 grouped best so will try 37.6 to 38.0 gn next time. I hit the 8" gong 3 out of 5 times.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19780557_10213165433680757_8657036515843715792_o.jpg?oh=09348a88478cfaff2e1e7ff6b9defb1d&oe=5A0FEB51)
The metal targets had a bad day. I shot the chain and one of the shackles again. I need to buy them by the gross.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19702851_10213165433800760_3725469754912325687_o.jpg?oh=ff03a01fd46cdacab2dd09813bc59900&oe=5A0118DB)
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Beautiful day at the range today. I used the Wheeler kit on the AR-15 and 300 BLK and seemed to work. I'm not sure if the lapping was worth it but it seemed to make sense. I could see where the grit rubbed against the area of the rings to increase contact with the scope. I ran 50 rounds of .308 out-of-spec/ugly bullets to zero the scope and it was way off, plus I smacked the metal targets around with the rest.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19679109_10213154582009472_7184367530092902264_o.jpg?oh=1d04ef5c5ac05282f9d2f7ff6c906090&oe=59D8D36C)
300 BLK: 12 to 16 gn A1680 with .308 bullets at 50 yards. The 12 gn didn't lock the bolt back, and the 16 gn grouped best at 1.207 MOA. The top two hits were from a previous load. Perhaps I'll try 15 to 17 gn next time. I tried the paper targets, but I don't like how it holes so will be going back to the splatter targets.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19620551_10213154582049473_3318801310537029410_o.jpg?oh=9badeb23164fdea289fc0f5d0d8b1452&oe=5A06CA57)
AR-15: 19.8 to 20.6 gn ARcomp with Hornady 55 gn FMJBT at 50 yards. The 20.6 gn grouped well at 0.745 MOA but not sure if I could pick a best. Perhaps it's time to try the new 62 gn or the new Nosler poly tips.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19679244_10213154582929495_6047841869536248597_o.jpg?oh=f273db6fb9334521e7ad90e3ef29ccd4&oe=59CB5AFE)
The new shackles seemed to be working despite my attempt to shoot it.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19702794_10213154581929470_2049731761178968452_o.jpg?oh=2c070bcc16bb0fdcff489b735e1ac31a&oe=5A0C2EFF)
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So many bullets, so little time. I bought a bunch of .310 from TooFewPews to try in the 300BLK and VEPR. I have the .308 sizing die on order. http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=79076
Rounds ready for my next adventure, probably Sunday morning. I'm going back to the 15 to 19 gn A1680 but at 100 yards. I'm using the last of the box of Hornady 130 gn .308 I bought at Sportsman's Warehouse in Vegas. Back when I lived in Vegas, I remember that place as being shooters nirvana but was disappointed to discover the prices aren't as good as I remember. OAL is 2.08" with a very light crimp as I find that's the most accurate. I hate messing up my brass with a heavy crimp.
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Didn't go to the range Sunday. Decided taxes needed to be done, but the reloading must go on. I think these are the best looking 223 I've made so far.
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Mixed results today. I was smacking the hell out of the metal targets with the 300 BLK. I tried the Hornady 130 gn bullets that I had great results with before. Now I was getting 5 inch groups at 100 yards. The view in my Barska scope is no longer perfectly circular so will be following up on that. I also loaded 60 of the fugly .308 bullets I collected and loaded with the 1cc scoop (15.3 gn of 1680). I smacked the metal targets about 50 times without shooting the chains once, so I was very proud of that. I next tried to shoot the VEPR but discovered that I left the magazines at home. Doh!
MN 91/30: Excellent results today. Top is Speer 180 gn with 36 to 38 gn R15. Next time, will try 36.6 to 37.4 gn. Bottom is Hornady 150 gn with 37.6 to 38.4 gn IMR4895. Next time, will try 37.8 to 38.2 gn or maybe I'll just load all with 38.0 gn. The rifle really likes the combo of the .312 bullet with 4895, more so than R15. On the top target, someone keyholed before I could shoot at it.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19667808_10213154565089049_585982187123076161_o.jpg?oh=d2ef856f30cc9db21a1f79bdc1f57d33&oe=59D4A9D7)
Out of the 10 loads, I would shoot 4 then try for the metal target after adjusting the 1x reddot. I was able to hit the metal targets with each of the 10 loads. I was very happy.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19693688_10213154568049123_1685560242354589363_o.jpg?oh=4b13a9a0ef86d04cedb4be88bb24e640&oe=59C4F6EB)
I was resizing the photos so they're not too big, but decided that it's easier for you to adjust the browser size if you want a smaller photo.
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It was a hot busy day at the range. I was seeing heat waves through my scope. I got to the range in between the morning rush and the afternoon rush so didn't have to wait for a bench.
AR-15: Tried the new Hornady 62 gn FMJBT and they were awesome with ARcomp 20.0 to 20.8 gn. The 20.4 gn grouped best at 100 yards (all five loads were subMOA). I'll have to wait to get the MOA calculation because I registered the On Target program only to discover that they will send me the code in a day or two. I did have one misfire so not sure what happened there. Update: average 0.640 MOA. Update2: No powder in the almost squib. The crimp kept the bullet in place.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19679007_10213154543928520_929431631731164904_o.jpg?oh=b48430715dbf0a01ec07b4ce70e8032b&oe=59C90CB8)
My accuracy seems to greatly improve after several dozens of rounds. The two on the left were zero in with 20 rounds of 55 gn ARcomp using the yellow scoop or 21.3 gn. Not an entirely accurate method for measuring powder but fast. The target on the right was 30 rounds after firing 120 rounds. Perhaps it takes me several dozen to relax and get my groove on or perhaps the rifle is more accurate when it's hot. Update: average 0.694 MOA. Also, the middle target and right target had almost the same average moa so maybe there wasn't much of a difference after all.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19693573_10213154543768516_7161051354584492842_o.jpg?oh=b36669eabeb87b090bcb1d2c962296e2&oe=5A063120)
AK-47: This was the first time I tried the VEPR 23" at 100 yards and was disappointed (bottom target). You'd think a Russian rifle with sights out to 300 meters would be more accurate at 100 yards. I guess that's Russian optimism for you. I've decided the 26.8 gn H335 grouped best, but I used up all of the 123 gn SP I bought in Vegas. I'm now going to focus on the 900 polytip bullets I bought from TooFewPews. For the 300BLK, the plan is to resize them from .310 to .308 using the Lee sizing die. Specifically, I'll pass them through 0 to 4 times to see how each does.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19693842_10213154543808517_206563783763741186_o.jpg?oh=0339ba568fbaffdfe9351c029d0016af&oe=5A106586)
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It was a hot busy day at the range. I was seeing heat waves through my scope. I got to the range in between the morning rush and the afternoon rush so didn't have to wait for a bench.
AR-15: Tried the new Hornady 62 gn FMJBT and they were awesome with ARcomp 20.0 to 20.8 gn. The 20.4 gn grouped best at 100 yards (all five loads were subMOA). I'll have to wait to get the MOA calculation because I registered the On Target program only to discover that they will send me the code in a day or two. I did have one misfire so not sure what happened there. Update: average 0.640 MOA. Update2: No powder in the almost squib. The crimp kept the bullet in place.
My accuracy seems to greatly improve after several dozens of rounds. The two on the left were zero in with 20 rounds of 55 gn ARcomp using the yellow scoop or 21.3 gn. Not an entirely accurate method for measuring powder but fast. The target on the right was 30 rounds after firing 120 rounds. Perhaps it takes me several dozen to relax and get my groove on or perhaps the rifle is more accurate when it's hot. Update: average 0.694 MOA. Also, the middle target and right target had almost the same average moa so maybe there wasn't much of a difference after all.
AK-47: This was the first time I tried the VEPR 23" at 100 yards and was disappointed (bottom target). You'd think a Russian rifle with sights out to 300 meters would be more accurate at 100 yards. I guess that's Russian optimism for you. I've decided the 26.8 gn H335 grouped best, but I used up all of the 123 gn SP I bought in Vegas. I'm now going to focus on the 900 polytip bullets I bought from TooFewPews. For the 300BLK, the plan is to resize them from .310 to .308 using the Lee sizing die. Specifically, I'll pass them through 0 to 4 times to see how each does.
what is your method of measuring your groups?
how big is the inside ring and the outer diameter of your orange sticker targets?
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what is your method of measuring your groups?
how big is the inside ring and the outer diameter of your orange sticker targets?
https://ontargetshooting.com/
1"/2"
If it wasn't for that one flyer on the 4th target, the data woulda been perfect according to the MOM procedures for load development.
20.0 - 0.887
20.2 - 0.747
20.4 - 0.640
20.6 - (0.713)
20.8 - 0.731
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https://ontargetshooting.com/
1"/2"
If it wasn't for that one flyer on the 4th target, the data woulda been perfect according to the MOM procedures for load development.
20.0 - 0.887
20.2 - 0.747
20.4 - 0.640
20.6 - (0.713)
20.8 - 0.731
oh interesting. I didn't realize that your references to MOA were based on average to center calculations. i was under the impression that most people (and the industry as a whole) measured MOA using extreme spread.
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oh interesting. I didn't realize that your references to MOA were based on average to center calculations. i was under the impression that most people (and the industry as a whole) measured MOA using extreme spread.
I'm not most people. If you shoot 3 rounds of 10 loads, then each load is an average. I shoot 20 rounds of 5 loads because I don't care, so I use the average MOA.
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The next loads are ready for the range with Hornady 62 gn and Tac 20 to 22 gn. I'm happy with the new RCBS "measurer" I bought (despite the cracked plastic but that's a mild inconvenience). I started priming the shiny LC brass I have then realized I didn't have enough regular primers for all 100, so I decided to load them with 22.0 gn of the remaining CFE223 I have left in the bottle. This gave me practice with the new measurer. I'll use these for warm up and smacking my metal targets.
This left me with the fugly PMC brass for the match primers I bought at SEC. It was only $3 more for the match grade, so what the hey I say. Most of the PMC brass is tarnished despite the quick ultrasonic and despite 6 hours in the brass tumbler. They're shiny but tarnished. I finally ordered some polish for the tumbler so hopefully that will untarnish the fugly brass. Still not ready for wet tumbling so don't ask.
I have about 600 of the sorted 55 gn Hornady bullets from the original 1,500 I ordered. I recently bought 1,000 of the 77 gn match Noslers at about 16 cents each. Someone (perhaps Heavies) mentioned they shoot the 77 gn so excited to see how these perform at the range. You all need to stop enticing me to buy new stuff, especially after I get my tax refund.
:shaka:
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The weather improved today with a light wind and mostly sunny. I hung out with Inspector and with the Black Powder Gang. I got the last open table at 9 am and was mostly full until I left at 1 pm. I shot someone’s 1942 Enfield. I was speculating that this rifle could have been pointing east from Holland during WW2 and my 1942 Mosin Nagant could have been pointing west from Russia.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19598840_10213082431005742_570337711713418207_n.jpg?oh=40939ce4121ee698eee6525b7c45920f&oe=59C9FAC4)
I next shot "a real man's rifle", the 45/70 Sharps. It was loaded with 110 gn black powder and could be loaded up to 140 gn. I couldn’t hit the gong but have no clue where the round went. The owner (sorry, I'm terrible with names) was telling us about the time they demonstrated an antique gun in the back of the range to a studio making a documentary about the type of guns available when King Kamehameha invaded Oahu. The blast from the rifle knocked everyone backwards.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19510113_10213082431485754_5122408228161502518_n.jpg?oh=077fad9558446aff7a2434e20b352799&oe=59CB70C1)
MN 91/30: First shot the 38.0 gn IMR4895 with the 150 gn Hornady SP at the middle target. Out of 25, 17 hit the red with an average 1.873 MOA and 5 hit the 8” gong. So far, this is my go to load. The flyer on top was from the 300BLK.
Next shot the 36.6 to 37.4 gn RL15 with the 180 gn Speer RN. The 36.6 on the left were awful but was still able to hit the gong. In fact, I was able to hit the gong with all ten loads. Very proud. The 37.2 gn seemed to group the best on the right. I ran out of time with the last three rounds and had to move the target to the 100 yard line for the AR-15. This crowded the metal targets too close to the BPS gong so was only able to shoot the 6” gong. I bought a new box of 180 gn Speers. Not sure what I’ll load next, but I think I'm tired of RL15 with this bullet. The target got a bit of splash damage from the neighbor and a few holes from trying to zero the AR-15.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19554318_10213082430405727_7556475950268296994_n.jpg?oh=27e3a8a9dbf1676c0817a392dbc30b08&oe=59CF8A73)
AR-15: I've been experimenting with different color backgrounds to see how it effects my aging eyes. I was wondering if the white board is too bright in the sun. So far, I'm not sure if the color actually makes a difference in my ability to focus on the target. I added 1/2" riser to the scope to keep my head straighter on the stock. Overall, I think its better after zeroing the scope again. I made about 75 rounds of 22 gn CFE223 with the remaining regular primers. I used these to warm up the rifle, zero the scope, and smack around the gongs.
I ran a patch through and shot the 20 to 22 gn TAC with the 62 gn Hornady FMJBT and Federal Match Primers. The 21.5 gn shot the best with an average 0.520" MOA. It looks like the TAC shot better than the ARcomp from last time. I don't have more of the 62 gn bullets but do have the 77 gn Nosler.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19510601_10213082430325725_7972162287715863468_n.jpg?oh=20080c221853d3246841039b48868573&oe=5A095481)
300BLK: I mailed the Barska scope back to the manufacturer and tried my old AIM reddot with the remainder of the A1680 and the new LilGun. It sorta worked until the reddot window fell out. Doh!
I put that upper away and switched back to the 5.56 to try the new 77 gn Nosler bullets with 22 to 24 gn RL15. I loaded the round to the full 2.260" OAL which barely fit in my Magpul clip. I shot most of the rounds until I ran out of time and my wife was ready to be picked up. She teaches First-aid/CPR at the Red Cross. These are scary accurate bullets, albeit 50 yards. The best part about them is that they were cheap. I can’t wait to try them again, probably 22.2 to 23.0 gn RL15.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19601409_10213082430365726_6498800037890010311_n.jpg?oh=ec76b8ea33614b80b4035e806c87e8a4&oe=59D17372)
I’ve never shot RL15 in the 5.56 before. They sure make for dirty cases.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19657487_10213082430925740_3358252067005457614_n.jpg?oh=420e06f253f1f77ca9ec9c146311779a&oe=59C507DB)
1911-22: This orange gopher is a warrior, Frank. I have tried to kill her, but she will not die. I have a great respect for that.
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Turns out I shot almost 200 rounds. I was wondering why it seemed like I was running low on brass. I have been throwing out about a quarter of the brass during prep.
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The new .310 Vmax bullets look awesome for my VEPR.
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I'm getting old. I took me lower receivers out last night to work on the trigger. When I left for the range today, I stood in front of my work area trying to figure out what I was missing. I discovered at the range that I forgot the lower. Dammit! I fired the VEPR then went home. The Force was not with me today.
I did get to hold a 10/22 barrel with a P90ish stock. The dummy magazine is missing and the 22 magazine is located underneath.
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More adventures and misadventures. I brought my lower receiver this time but with the new DIY trigger. I ordered the parts on the 3rd and USPS delivered on the 6th from Texas. Not sure how that was delivered so quickly because usually it takes a week. Now the trigger has no slop in it and is probably around 4 pounds so happy with that.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19554118_10213082415805362_7399644436768500174_n.jpg?oh=a784dd4fb3c68e68bc62441f235551ec&oe=59CAD494)
For AR-15, I normally load 20 shots of 5 loads but this time decided on 10 shots of 10 loads using 22 to 23.8 gn RL15 with Nosler 77gn HP. I used my new Hornady electronic scale. Of course my mind didn't tell the other half when I created the target and only made 6 target dots instead of 10, so I just shot the 22 to 22.8 gn loads. The Nosler data says the 23 is most accurate, and the 22.8 gn grouped best for me. I think for next time, I'll create more 23.0 to 23.8 gn and go back to 20*5. Changed my mind, decided to load 50 of the 22.1 to 22.9 gn TAC so I can use my RCBS measurer. Note to brain, make ten targets instead of six.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19554222_10213082415725360_903597252030043499_n.jpg?oh=e60a79fef7fef1dd1dbc5cec909e467b&oe=59CD61A8)
300BLK: Although I got the Barska 16x scope back from the manufacturer and I bought the much vaunted Vortex 6x scope, I decided to keep the reddot on the upper to see how it fared. It took me about 50 rounds to finally zero but was able to hit the 8" gong rather consistently. I think I'll put the Vortex 6x on it for next time. There didn't seem to be much difference between the 19.8 gn A1680 and 14.8 gn Lilgun. I'm out of A1680 so will play with Lilgun next, probably with the resized Hornady bullets.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19510118_10213082415765361_749464007213277761_n.jpg?oh=f2f1ab71218fb184151a0df864f76a61&oe=59DD75E5)
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Turned out to be a nice day at the range despite the morning rains.
AR-15: Excellent results as I expected with the Nosler Match 77 gn at 100 yards. The problem is that I got confused and the info I wrote down in my loading log did not match the case labels so I'm not exactly sure if I shot them in the correct order. The data for the 23 to 23.8 gn RL15 is useable with a mean radius of 0.414" for the 23.4 gn. I've been researching more about statistical analysis of the shot groups so this equates to 1.5 MOA accuracy. I don't fully understand it yet but the research continues. As you know, I'm not relying on extreme spread of the groups. The data for the 22.1 to 22.9 gn TAC was spurious. The mean radius for 22.9 gn was 0.390" so I need to try this again but with a higher load, 22.7 to 23.5 gn TAC. I use the powder scoops and scale with the extruded RL15 and the powder measurer and scale with the ball TAC.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19601363_10213082351203747_7827373988724526504_n.jpg?oh=300824a477eca61c820ebf9362a554ad&oe=59D20107)
300BLK: I installed my new 6x Strike Eagle Vortex scope along with a new hand grip. I have to say that it's very comfortable in my hands. Now I just need to work on the accuracy.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19601373_10213082373484304_1556512584864558291_n.jpg?oh=a9a0c7f72ca826e5acb3ea5d6604901a&oe=59C91983)
Shot the 12 to 16 gn W296 with the 150 gn FMJBT bullet at 100 yards. I will probably try 13 to 15 gn next time. I'm not happy with the windage spread, and I'm also curious how the CFEBLK works out, so maybe I'll try that. I think it's time to try seating depth. The COL for the 150 gn bullet is 2.210", and I need to figure out the chamber's head space.
I placed 2" stickers on the targets but realized I'm using the narrow frame so just used the center target.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19598988_10213082351243748_2597753596343514570_n.jpg?oh=04846ae00578dff8785730229ba604ef&oe=59D7D548)
AK-47: 25.8 to 27.8 gn of the last of the H335 with the Hornady .310 Vmax. I was expecting the aim to rise with the increasing powder charge but didn't change that much. Overall, the accuracy has suffered. I reseated the scope and replaced the trigger spring. Doesn't seem to have helped. I'll next try the Speer .311 bullets I've had for awhile. I'll either use RL7 or CFEBLK.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19511227_10213082351163746_4092634716022741759_n.jpg?oh=0f53e72a4f3d3025ddab09ce6e0ea6ad&oe=59D45A7B)
This is why it's difficult to find my AK brass in the grass. I swear that 90% of the brass on the ground is steel AK cases.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/r180/19510403_10213082351523755_5277960697179529440_n.jpg?oh=a49f841e84fee826f3152ffd5ed3654e&oe=59CF58A9)
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Turned out to be a nice day at the range despite the morning rains.
AR-15: Excellent results as I expected with the Nosler Match 77 gn at 100 yards. The problem is that I got confused and the info I wrote down in my loading log did not match the case labels so I'm not exactly sure if I shot them in the correct order. The data for the 23 to 23.8 gn RL15 is useable with a mean radius of 0.414" for the 23.4 gn. I've been researching more about statistical analysis of the shot groups so this equates to 1.5 MOA accuracy. I don't fully understand it yet but the research continues. As you know, I'm not relying on extreme spread of the groups. The data for the 22.1 to 22.9 gn TAC was spurious. The mean radius for 22.9 gn was 0.390" so I need to try this again but with a higher load. I use the powder scoops with the extruded RL15 and the powder measurer with the ball TAC.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/Capture%20518a.jpg)
300BLK: I installed my new 6x Strike Eagle Vortex scope along with a new hand grip. I have to say that it's very comfortable in my hands. Now I just need to work on the accuracy.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/300BLK.jpg)
Shot the 12 to 16 gn W296 with the 150 gn FMJBT bullet at 100 yards. I will probably try 13 to 15 gn next time. I'm not happy with the windage spread, and I'm also curious how the CFEBLK works out, so maybe I'll try that. I placed 2" stickers on the targets but realized I'm using the narrow frame so just used the center target.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1872.jpg)
AK-47: 25.8 to 27.8 gn of the last of the H335 with the Hornady .310 Vmax. The accuracy has suffered. I reseated the scope and replaced the trigger spring. Doesn't seem to have helped. I'll next try the Speer .311 bullets I've had for awhile. I'll either use RL7 or CFEBLK.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1873.jpg)
This is why it's so difficult to find my AK brass in the grass. I swear that 90% of the brass on the ground is steel AK cases.
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/rklapp/IMG_1874.jpg)
is your scope base sitting on a riser?
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is your scope base sitting on a riser?
Yes, otherwise my head is at too much of a tilt and my earmuffs interfere with the stock. What I need are 1.5" scope rings. I have broad shoulders. The one shown came with the scope when I bought it. I did remount it with the Wheeler kit. Suggestions?
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looks high and from your pics you aren't getting a good cheek to stock weld.
I bring the rifle to my jaw bone and slide the stock from the bottom up to my eye.
(http://www.odcmp.org/0208/images/USAMU_Prone1Img/ArmPlacement.jpg)
What ever works for you.
It also appears that there is only one riser in contact with the front of the scope base.
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I'd put a rest under your stock and bring the stock up higher on your shoulder. Your head should be upright.
I appreciate the advice including your previous suggestion. I installed the riser and I find it more comfortable. Do you think this riser could damage the scope? I like this one better than the UTG I tried.
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I dont think it would damage it but your scope base is not having full contact with the receiver with only one riser in front. The base is likely flexing. Ive seen a chin weld before but with silhouette shooters. Id build the position again. Move the stock inward in your chest so that it is inline with your head. Anyways Im no expert but what worked for me may work for you.
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Here's why I don't shoot small groups to measure accuracy. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/12/daniel-zimmerman/understanding-rifle-precision/
In order to shoot sub MOA, 95% of the shots (19 out of 20) have to fit within a 1.05" diameter circle at 100 yards (defined as 1 MOA). The 95% group is two standard deviations from the mean. In order to accomplish this, the mean radius of the shots has to be within 0.27" from the group center. For extreme spread, a 3 shot group needs to be within 0.48" distance apart to be 1 MOA but statistically, a 10 shot group is more precise and reproducible than a 3 or 5 shot group. The smaller groups are useful for OCW determination to discount fouling and heat.
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Interesting results at the range today.
AR-15: Conintuation of the last trip's results with 22.7 to 23.5 gn TAC and Nosler 77 gn bullet. The mean radius for all five loads were mostly the same. The difference was the location of the center of the group. I might have been having problems with my Hornady electronic scale and forgot to zero occasionally. I'm still getting used to the scale. If I can buy more TAC, perhaps I'll try it again with ten loads of 22.0 to 24.0 gn. I also have the new Nosler 62 gn HP bullets that I bought for 11 cents each. They are blemish heads with varying length but consistent weight. I loaded some to the full 2.26" OAL and was impressed with the accuracy. I could also go back and revisit the RL15 with the 77 gn bullet.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19511361_10213082206440128_2203680530111814688_n.jpg?oh=23cd194bbbf6b789241c46788fa1510f&oe=59C5BB6B)
MN 91/30: The 36 to 40 gn IMR4895 with the Speer 180 gn .311 wasn't working well. I need to just stick with the .312 bullets. I finally received the 170 gn LMN GC .312" bullets I ordered from Beartooth a while back. I haven't figured out what powder to use with it. Maybe Varget, maybe RL7.
The 36 to 40 gn Varget with Hornady 150 gn SP worked better. The 38 and 39 gn grouped well. I'm starting to think it's time to put an eye relief scope back on.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19642488_10213082206400127_5368060790264094325_n.jpg?oh=1a475a368328298202b7116361a6e6b8&oe=59C681B1)
AK-47: I tried the Speer 150 gn SP .311 with 23 to 25 gn CFEBLK. The 23.5 gn grouped well (left target) but so did the factory Tulammo with the .308 bullet (right target). Perhaps I'll load up 50 rounds of the 23.5 gn and compare it with the factory ammo.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19554289_10213082206360126_4884861156768769181_n.jpg?oh=2fe7783a490fb3cdc10c5ba7b737675e&oe=59CC3957)
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Here's why I don't shoot small groups to measure accuracy. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/12/daniel-zimmerman/understanding-rifle-precision/
In order to shoot sub MOA, 95% of the shots (19 out of 20) have to fit within a 1.05" diameter circle at 100 yards (defined as 1 MOA). The 95% group is two standard deviations from the mean. In order to accomplish this, the mean radius of the shots has to be within 0.27" from the group center. For extreme spread, a 3 shot group needs to be within 0.48" distance apart to be 1 MOA but statistically, a 10 shot group is more precise and reproducible than a 3 or 5 shot group. The smaller groups are useful for OCW determination to discount fouling and heat.
you're right in that there are good reasons to observe the mean MOA. just know that mean MOA won't tell you the whole story.
i'm not a mathematician, but i know that the normal calculations for linear gaussian distribution will not work for a two dimensional (bivariate) distribution. here, the 68%-95%-99.7% rule does not apply since the shots must be measured relative to each other (in addition to their relativity to the calculated center). since you're measuring a bivariate distribution, a 39%-86%-99% rule of thumb would probably be more fitting. (i know that "rule of thumb" isn't PC, but i'm going to say it anyway).
on top of that, it would be almost impossible for you to control for a lot of the factors (e.g. barrel heat, fouling, powder charge variance, case capacity, seating depth, neck tension, wind, human error, barrel whip, etc.), so there's always going to be a certain margin of error that you must also account for.
just know that there are statistical and practical reasons for measuring group sizes based on extreme spread and, therefore, the extreme spread measurement shouldn't be permanently discounted.
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I'm not intending to permanently discount extreme spread. I'm just saying why I prefer larger groups over smaller groups.
I'm not familiar with 39/86/99% bivariate distribution rule so I'll have to investigate. Would a bivariate 2 SD be more or less accurate than a normal 2 SD?
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I'm not intending to permanently discount extreme spread. I'm just saying why I prefer larger groups over smaller groups.
I'm not familiar with 39/86/99% bivariate distribution rule so I'll have to investigate. Would a bivariate 2 SD be more or less accurate than a normal 2 SD?
yes it is true that a high-count groups (such as your 20-round group) will tell you how accurate your rifle if you've controlled for other factors
at the same time, a high-count group can be unnecessary if you're using it to compare loads out of the same rifle. at some point there are diminishing returns with every additional round fired in a group.
so it really depends on your purpose, and also how well you control for the other factors.
regarding your question about the accuracy of two standard deviations when comparing single variate and bivariate scenarios, i don't have an answer. i don't mean to offend, but i think that question is impossible to answer because it doesn't make sense.
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yes it is true that a high-count groups (such as your 20-round group) will tell you how accurate your rifle if you've controlled for other factors
at the same time, a high-count group can be unnecessary if you're using it to compare loads out of the same rifle. at some point there are diminishing returns with every additional round fired in a group.
so it really depends on your purpose, and also how well you control for the other factors.
regarding your question about the accuracy of two standard deviations when comparing single variate and bivariate scenarios, i don't have an answer. i don't mean to offend, but i think that question is impossible to answer because it doesn't make sense.
That's what I thought but it's an interesting concept. I'm not sure why a bivariate distribution would be more fitting unless wind or heat is a factor.
I agree that 10 is more statistically fitting (for lack of a better word). In my reloading process for the small caliber, I may make 10 or 20 for each load depending on if I use the measurer for the ball powders or hand measure the extruded powders. I'm finding that the extruded powders are more applicable for the larger 62 and 77 grain bullets I've been using lately.
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i was adding to my other post, but i'll just move it to a new one since you quoted my last post.
read this article: http://ballistipedia.com/index.php?title=Closed_Form_Precision
if you understand the concept and the mathematics behind the Rayleigh distribution model, then you're on the right track. My only gripe with that article is the fact that the Rayleigh distribution model requires the assumption that the variance of the shot dispersion will be symmetrical on the x and y axes, hence the circular distribution.
if the article above didn't make your head spin, then read this article next: http://ballistipedia.com/index.php?title=Circular_Error_Probable
like i said, i'm not a mathematician or a statistician, but i think the natural distribution of most shot groups will tend to look more elliptical in nature, which is expressed in the article as the Hoyt distribution. i posit that this phenomenon is a result of accounting for human and mechanical errors. if you don't believe me, then look through all of the pictures you posted of your groups; almost every single one of them, regardless of the gun/ammo/optic/load used, is not a symmetrical distribution.
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i was adding to my other post, but i'll just move it to a new one since you quoted my last post.
read this article: http://ballistipedia.com/index.php?title=Closed_Form_Precision
if you understand the concept and the mathematics behind the Rayleigh distribution model, then you're on the right track. My only gripe with that article is the fact that the Rayleigh distribution model requires the assumption that the variance of the shot dispersion will be symmetrical on the x and y axes, hence the circular distribution.
if the article above didn't make your head spin, then read this article next: http://ballistipedia.com/index.php?title=Circular_Error_Probable
like i said, i'm not a mathematician or a statistician, but i think the natural distribution of most shot groups will tend to look more elliptical in nature, which is expressed in the article as the Hoyt distribution. i posit that this phenomenon is a result of accounting for human and mechanical errors. if you don't believe me, then look through all of the pictures you posted of your groups; almost every single one of them, regardless of the gun/ammo/optic/load used, is not a symmetrical distribution.
I appreciate it.
So under a normal distribution, the example given would be about 1 MOA for a 3 shot group with an extreme spread of 0.5" and under a bivariate distribution, would be about 0.4 MOA.
(http://ballistipedia.com/images/thumb/d/dc/3ShotSample.png/210px-3ShotSample.png)
This is an interesting graph.
(http://ballistipedia.com/images/thumb/0/08/ConfidenceIntervals.png/450px-ConfidenceIntervals.png)
I'll have to tackle the other article later.
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It was a hot and windy day at the range today. Had to wait a cycle and got a bench next to my friend, Larry. He was initially frustrated with his scope but once dialed in, was shooting quarters.
AR-15: Nosler 62 gn HP with I4895 23 to 25 gn at 100 yards. The 24 gn (middle left target) grouped best with 0.521" mean radius. I excluded three of the flyers because I sneezed. The bullets are factory seconds at 11 cents each. I loaded them to the full 2.26" COL.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19477570_10213082176999392_9215523161576420150_o.jpg?oh=e657ade126bea8d51cbb803aa198a502&oe=5A0C8696)
300BLK: Hornady 150 gn SST with W296 13 to 15 gn at 50 yards. I'm not quite confident shooting 100 yards yet but getting there. The bullets were a single box and will probably switch to the resized .308 bullets and CFEBLK. The 14 gn (middle right target) grouped best at 0.442" mean radius. I didn't exclude the flyers. Update: I realized that I shot 15 rounds at the 3rd target and 25 rounds at the 4th target. To me, anything over 10 is good data, so I'm still sticking with the 14 gn load.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19467824_10213082176119370_6643233057864515574_o.jpg?oh=53bfc77c12a2b41f0dd611e19ad043b1&oe=59DAEF6B)
I moved the scope back one groove so it's center on the riser and it felt more comfortable. This moved the bit for the brass catcher to the front but didn't seem to be a problem with catching the brass. I also installed my new front hand grip. It was $7 on Ebay from China so took a month to finally arrive.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19621341_10213082176199372_7125323352307268613_o.jpg?oh=020f8fcf847d50e97776f91812e6a26e&oe=5A11C7CD)
AK-47: Hornady 123 gn .310 Vmax with RL7 21 to 25 gn at 50 yards. I was elated with the 21 and 22 gn results so I got greedy and continued with the same target in hopes that it would travel up the paper, but it started to spread afterwards. The 25 gn were mostly cratering the primer so starting to get too hot. I previously played around with the trigger and filed a bit off the single hook. This serendipitously created a two-stage trigger with what feels like a 4 pound pull. Don't ask me how I did it, but it's amazing.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19477754_10213082176079369_6833165776683402679_o.jpg?oh=da8ac12890a6db806c7e43287337292b&oe=59D09F69)
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It was a sunny and squallish day at the range. I was away on the mainland for two weeks so it's good to be back. I dropped my son off at Hawaii Kai so arrived late. I've been hitting the AR a lot lately and decided to go with the Mosin and 300. Note: I'm using Facebook to host these photos, so let me know if they don't show.
MN 91/30: Started with the Varget 37.6 to 39.2 gn with Hornady .312 SP bullet. The 38.4 gn grouped really well with a 0.7" group (red box). The 38.8 gn also shot well but the second pair went high. I hit the metal target all five times.
I discovered there's an issue with using the RCBS neck sizer instead of the Lee FL sizer. The RCBS has the .308 expanding ball and I replaced the Lee die with the .311 expanding ball. I'm not sure if I can put the Lee .311 into the RCBS but doubt it. The result is that the neck bulges a bit when I insert the .312 bullet into the .308 sized neck. It's supposedly a problem because it tends to bulge out one side more than the other so it's off center by .003". How much does this effect accuracy... who's to say? I bought size 4 lead weights at JHara and slugged the bore again. This time I got .312" which is a lot better than the .314" I got before.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19620589_10213105745788597_7271932630022865899_o.jpg?oh=96763d7ef791552a3419d9187c53ded9&oe=59DE0223)
Next was IMR4895 36 to 40 gn with Hornady .312 RN bullet. The 38 gn grouped well in the middle. I tend to think that the SP bullet is slightly more accurate than the RN bullet. I was only able to hit the metal target three times.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19488882_10213105745828598_539409486665758871_o.jpg?oh=849a961781defb4d48b1827e75861dce&oe=59CE0BF2)
300BLK: I replaced my flash hider with a compensator. I placed the top holes to the 1 o'clock position because it tends to pull to the right and I read this helps. Overall, I'm pleased with the results.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19621082_10213105791709745_8711185568039718114_o.jpg?oh=7ef79f3687b86ae36e86200efdf35d78&oe=59CD1C25)
I created 50 plinking rounds with the surplus 147 gn bullets and 50 of Win296 13 to 15 gn with Hornady V-max that I resized from .310 to .308. I seated the V-max to the 2.10" COL recommended for similar bullet loads which is why the cannelure is showing since these were meant for AK rounds. I bought these for 20 cents each from TooFewPews who gave me the idea to resize them.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19488970_10213105745868599_3126057110672749875_o.jpg?oh=ae4b2a2b7b13d571cf3dc7fba2f7a270&oe=59D1F39B)
Again, I'm please with the results. I miscalculated the number of targets I needed so had to improvise. The 13 gn is on the left, 13.5 and 14 gn in middle, and 14.5 and 15 gn on right. I have several boxes of these AK bullets so will try again at 100 yards.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19780465_10213105746868624_5319263382403559836_o.jpg?oh=1637d48341ca9385e7d94ed95bf15eb4&oe=5A0C6336)
This old gopher is a warrior. I have tried to kill it, but it will not die. I have a great respect for that. (Tom Sizemore - Bringing Out the Dead) Note the divots behind the gopher.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19575163_10213105747988652_5609026265131636130_o.jpg?oh=5d7dc4de081bdbdce71f2e240842098f&oe=59CCC091)
There were several newbie groups who showed up at the last hour. One of them asked Tom how much is the range fee and he explained that it's free here. I told him he missed his chance, and he told me I could still charge to them for the chance to shoot at my gopher. I told him I'll charge 50 cents a round.
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Happy Independence Day everyone! We were creating our own fireworks at the range. It was a warm day with a brisk breeze. I arrived at the best time at 10 am and got a bench right away. There was a waiting list before and after so I lucked out. One of the ROs gave me a bag of spent .223 cases, so it was like Christmas in July.
AR-15: I changed out the gas rings in the BCG because it was starting to fail the vertical test. It was easier to replace than I thought. I made ten load groups this time with ten rounds each. Used the Reloader 15 at 22.2 to 24.0 gn with Nosler 77 gn HPBT. The 22..6 to 23.2 gn group well with 23.0 (bottom left) grouping best.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19679404_10213142104297537_9149334177311774053_o.jpg?oh=57f5ec06cd8c0c6f4f45d340c4df9129&oe=59D8E8A9)
AK-47: I'm continuing to like the changes I made to the trigger. I ordered a trigger pull scale but it's taking a long time to arrive. I recently slugged the bore and verifed it's at .311". Can someone explain why if AKs are created with either .308 or .311 bores, why AK bullets are normally .310? I'm guessing it might be the same reason why we shoot .224 bullets in a .223 rifle.
Used the Reloader 7 at 20 to 22 gn with Hornady 123 gn V-max .310". The 21.0 gn (middle left) grouped best with a .527" mean radius. 50 yards...
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19693461_10213142104577544_4441457196804671143_o.jpg?oh=cadacf343a183831397a027bb5ca5355&oe=5A11EACD)
I haven't been happy with the Federal 22s I've been shooting. About one in ten fails to fire, so I have to pull it out and reposition it for the round to work. I have a box of Blazers that I picked up at the Gun Show. At this time, I'm not interested in shooting a 15 cent round in my 22. Occasionally, the pistol works flawlessly.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19702759_10213142104737548_2551389753651936151_o.jpg?oh=f6d1e0f2974dc324734f690cb368ae40&oe=5A094A0C)
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RK,
You didn't mention whether the Blazers worked or not? You also didn't mention what the problem is? In other words are you getting light strikes on the cartridge rim or is it heavy enough to ignite the cartridge and the cartridge is not igniting? Are the strikes on the cartridge consistent on all cartridges?
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RK,
You didn't mention whether the Blazers worked or not? You also didn't mention what the problem is? In other words are you getting light strikes on the cartridge rim or is it heavy enough to ignite the cartridge and the cartridge is not igniting? Are the strikes on the cartridge consistent on all cartridges?
The Blazers worked fine in the past but haven't tried the new box yet. It could be a problem with this particular box of Federals. The strikes are heavy and seem to work when I reposition the round. Perhaps the primer is not uniform in the rim. I'll try to pay more attention to the strikes next time. I have about 40 left.
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The Blazers worked fine in the past but haven't tried the new box yet. It could be a problem with this particular box of Federals. The strikes are heavy and seem to work when I reposition the round. Perhaps the primer is not uniform in the rim. I'll try to pay more attention to the strikes next time. I have about 40 left.
The priming compound being distributed evenly around the rim has been the bain of all rimfire ammo since the beginning of time. Eley perfected a way of turning the priming compound into a liquid so it fills in the rim more completely. And then when it drys it is probably the most reliable .22 ammo manufactured. With the exception of Aguila which pays a royalty to Eley for the use of their method of priming cases. Aguila actually makes some pretty good ammo since they use Eley's old analog equipment which they bought from Eley when Eley when to digitally controlled manufacturing equipment.
I have had varying luck with Federal Champions (Blue Box). Some boxes seem to be better than others. And the same goes for their Automatch which used to be really good then has slowly gone down in quality. I had some boxes of early Automatch and some later boxes of recent manufacture. And looking at the two cartridges, there is no comparison. Not knowing your particular gun, I would guess the Blazers will work pretty flawlessly. They are like CCI Mini Mags in that they seem to work in almost everything. Even as the quality of Blazers has changed, I find that they are still almost as good as the older manufactured ammo. It is just that the older manufactured ammo did not seem to have as many fliers as the newer manufactured ammo has. But for plinking and practice, for me, they are about the best compromise between price and quality.
Unfortunately, I noticed a marked decrease in .22 ammo quality from CCI during the Obama years when the manufacturers could not keep up with demand. I documented on a few threads on Rimfire Central the decrease in quality of the CCI SV and Automatch during this period as I had ammo manufactured before and during this period. Fortunately, I have also seen an increase in quality from CCI SV since the shortages are pretty much over. Can't say the same for the Automatch as I have not purchased a new batch. But I have bought a new batch of CCI SV and I can say the quality is back up to where it was.
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Here are a couple of photos of CCI SV during the Obama time frame shortage. Some rounds would not even chamber in my target pistols due to the excess lube and the big nicks/dings in the heads.
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Here are a couple of photos of CCI SV during the Obama time frame shortage. Some rounds would not even chamber in my target pistols due to the excess lube and the big nicks/dings in the heads.
heads
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Here are a couple of photos of CCI SV during the Obama time frame shortage. Some rounds would not even chamber in my target pistols due to the excess lube and the big nicks/dings in the heads.
Hopefully things have improved now that this is Trump's country.
heads
What's the inside joke?
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heads
(https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/teeth.jpg)
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It was a nice and slow day at the range. Not too many shooters and there was a sporadic breeze. I was having slam fires with both .223 and 300BLK, so I think I need to adjust the trigger to make it less sensitive. I lost about 1 out of 20 rounds.
AR-15: RL15 22.6 to 23.4 gn with Nosler 77 gn (23.4 not shown). The 23.0 gn grouped best at 0.541" mean radius. The results were continuous between the five loads. I also made several practice rounds with the remainder of the ARcomp 19.5 gn with FMJ 55 gn. It shot a couple inches to the right and down but was a great plinker for the metal targets.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20245508_10213325675966714_2020343487002765192_n.jpg?oh=96ec55ad59c3b9e1b541fc274ff2cbc2&oe=5A61C293)
300BLK: W296 13.6 to 14.4 gn with Hornady V-max that were resized to .308". The 13.8 gn grouped best, but the results for the five loads were not continuous because of the trigger problems. I also made practice rounds with W296 14.0 gn and FMJ 147 gn. In addition, I tried out 10 rounds of my new Nosler 190 gn with W296 11 gn. Call me crazy but they seemed to shoot a lot smoother. I will be focusing on the Noslers now instead of the resized Hornadys.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20264876_10213330999339795_6123302035401238471_n.jpg?oh=45cf4388f997bd0cb6d22c570c073300&oe=5A1174FD)
AK-47: RL7 20.6 to 21.4 gn with Hornady V-max .310" at 50 yards. I still have over 500 of these bullets. I'm also starting to use the 500 used brass I bought. The 21.0 gn grouped best at 0.803" mean radius, but the results were not continuous between the five loads. Dexter Lum threaded the barrel to add a 14x1 LH muzzle break. He had to shave down the heavy barrel to get the break to fit. The result was a lighter recoil but apparently not much help with accuracy.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20155897_10213325675886712_8149488977272432648_n.jpg?oh=24f00a679b0c33c1d61d3d1f0ac32d80&oe=59F96699)
For the metal targets, they ran out of black spray paint at Fisher so I got Pacific Blue instead. The problem with the 6" target is that it flips over with the .30 caliber bullets but works great with the .22 calibers.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20229088_10213324054486178_8915911323670889123_n.jpg?oh=9fe97dd47be68462a7fce8fd412f22d3&oe=5A11C868)
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Look what I have created!!!
I bought a cheap rotary saw and decided to make my own 300BLK in my vise. I used my Lee trim gauge and it worked wonderfully. Update: I tried making 8 more until the bit bent so back to the drawing board.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20430151_10213399855101146_209140206613953218_n.jpg?oh=79b3020652c7c578a339e9dd00ea8080&oe=5A3401F1)
I also loaded my new Nosler 190 gn bullets with LilGun plus some plinking rounds with the surplus .308 bullets.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20431726_10213399855141147_4522468614450352899_n.jpg?oh=ccb771518315c3606d880580356b4b8f&oe=59EAB374)
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It was a nice day at the range today with a light breeze and not too busy. I seem to get the second to the right bench lately which I like because it's tall. Of course, this means that the first bench is usually occupied by first timers to the range who fling brass at me from their AR. The RO then sets up the brass deflector (it's not really a catcher). By 3 pm, there's only me and two guys left so they were nice enough to move over. Afterwards, I bought a tripod chronograph from Winter36, so I'll need to get one of the left side benches from now on where it's flatter and I can set it up ten feet out. It's pretty cool because it connects with my iPhone.
One of the ROs doesn't like the way my metal targets can swing from side to side. His point is that if I hit the metal target on the side and it swings to the side, this can send shrapnel toward the other ranges or the Kokohead hikers (God forbid). My plan is to drill the holes further apart so the chain is spread out more. Hopefully this will work.
I bought a shooting bag set from RSRJ. I've been using my Rock Jr. which works fine but wanted to try the bag. It doesn't feel like real shooting... more like dialing in the shots. It definitely makes a difference in accuracy. I couldn't get the rear bag to work with the AK, yet I'll keep using it with the other rifles.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20597460_10213449659066214_2287156399539121387_n.jpg?oh=04db6a3eb65ee27c61a50a5e9f277271&oe=5A30C3EB)
MN 91/30: I made 25 rounds of Varget 38.4gn with Hornady 150gn .312 SP bullet at 50 yards. I shot five at the metal target and all hit. The first four had a two inch group. The next four were on the bottom so not sure what happened there. Two were on top and the other ten grouped nicely in the center.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20479901_10213449658066189_4702002924629274340_n.jpg?oh=d64f81efb2de8ad25956ccf529db60ac&oe=5A62CEB3)
I had a little success with the cast boolits. I hit paper three times with the RL7 20gn and three times with 25gn but they keyholed. I had more success with the 15gn (red box) using a filler material to keep the powder near the primer, although two appear to be a bit keyhole. Time for me to buy more RL7 (and Inspector's favorite 4198). I'll report back if I see any leading issues while cleaning. (See subsequent post below.) The other three holes are plinking rounds I made with the Speer 180gn .311 bullets. They're okay but not as good as the Hornady .312.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20543819_10213450409124965_6422765004644390224_o.jpg?oh=36c7ecc25df81dcb651cf12947b5bc95&oe=5A6612B0)
300BLK: The barrel really likes the Nosler 190gn HP with LilGun. Tried 8 to 12 gn and the 10gn grouped best. The upper left and upper middle are 8gn (dammit!) and lower right is 12gn. Still having problems with slamfires and losing about 1 out of 5 rounds. I loosened the trigger but it's still at 2.5#. Next time, I'll go back to CCI primers and see if this makes a difference. The double round goes off when I release the trigger and the firing pin returns to the firing position. This happens on both .223 and .300BLK BCG.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20507599_10213450504567351_6793888381211195199_o.jpg?oh=a1ca7cf6da7d370cd638ff3d788bef26&oe=5A2C0765)
I had feeding issues with the cases I converted. Some of them don't quite fit into the Lyman checker by like 0.01" to 0.001" (I'm guessing). I found out that the Lee dies are not the best for converting brass. I plan to process the fired cases and see if it will fit better into the checker. (See subsequent post below.) The group on the top are with the surplus 147gn bullet with converted brass and the group in the middle is with the Nosler 190gn, both with LilGun 11.0gn. Big difference between the two. (The two on the left are the keyholed 25gn rounds from before.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20479982_10213449659546226_3572019999906623639_n.jpg?oh=f7ddc60d57ad4881d0f798dd78db74ae&oe=5A0190BB)
AK-VEPR: I was hoping that the Speer 150gn .311 bullets with CFEBLK 23.5gn shot better but not so today. They worked well for me in the past. The only difference is the muzzle break I added. The RL7 21.0gn with the Hornady V-max .310 worked great today at 50 yards.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20621216_10213449659706230_3106284251243594573_n.jpg?oh=bc50debe17dd04815251561c72a36ca5&oe=5A3182AC)
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Time for me to buy more RL7 (and Inspector's favorite 4198).
I also use H4895 almost as much. The nice thing about the H4895 is you can develop loads with it per the Hodgdon white paper. And you can use it with lead boolits of the proper diameter and/or jacketed bullets. No need for trying to find published data other than the white paper and the stated maximum load. H4895 is about as universal as any powder available. I find it listed in most of my reloading manuals and most of the cartridges I load. It's kinda like a jack of all trades. I actually recommend you try this powder first because of this.
The IMR 4198 works well with lead boolits with reduced loads using the proper diameter boolit. The advantage that IMR 4198 has is that is more economical than most other rifle powders and it is hard to double charge a case in most cases. If you decide to try the IMR 4198, let me know if you need load data and I will try and find some for you.
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I've been using the IMR 4895 that I bought from someone. Sometimes it's similar in the load data and sometimes it's not so not sure if it work work the same. H4895 was the first powder I bought at Young Guns.
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf
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I've been using the IMR 4895 that I bought from someone. Sometimes it's similar in the load data and sometimes it's not so not sure if it work work the same. H4895 was the first powder I bought at Young Guns.
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf
I can absolutely state 100% that the two powders are not the same. They also have different burn speeds and pressure curves. And if you read the white paper they basically state to only use H4895 in this reduced load role. If Hodgdons doesn't recommend it I would not attempt it. So I am not sure why you wonder if they can be used interchangeably? H4895 is made in Australia and I4895 is made in Canada by two completely different companies with two different product codes. If you want to know if two powders are the same like H110 and W296 or different like I4895 and H4895 then look up their MSDS sheets and compare the product codes. Same product code, same powder. Different product code, different powder..
I suggest you Google light loads blowing up guns. There are theories that fast burning pistol powders in large rifle cases can cause up to 4x the pressure desired or not burn the entire amount of powder causing a squib load that you may not catch. If not caught the next shot can be catostrophic. It is also thought that light loads with slow burning rifle powders in large rifle cases can cause detonation in the case and blow yourself and your gun up. Not to mention the people next to you. You should only follow published data from reliable sources. H4895 has been found by Hodgdons to have just the right burn speed and pressure curve so you can safely load reduced powder loads if you follow their published guidelines. And Titegroup has been found by Hodgdons to not cause the out of control pressure curves and not burn partially to cause squibs so they actually recommend Titegroup in a reduced load for .223 and .308 on their website.
I cannot stress safety enough and following published guidelines to a tee when reloading.
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So I am not sure why you wonder if they can be used interchangeably?
I wasn't sure if they could be used interchangeably which is why I mentioned it. They look similar on the burn rate/density chart. I appreciate the advice.
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The processed brass that I converted from .223 fits into the gauge after the initial firing. I was using Kaleo brass which is great but wanted longer necks so I can trim to the same COAL.
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20638472_10213492412655027_7493857420878866537_n.jpg?oh=c9c74a52f3b98f6af8e7a5a0fc4dad70&oe=5A292E49)
Also, no major leading problems after shooting the cast boolits from the MN. I used a lead test to verify plus no chunks found.
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20729264_10213492412855032_5168886599876714220_n.jpg?oh=c17cc77396dce8f7829ca0a39bc26816&oe=59EF5E38)
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It was the Day of the Chronograph at the range. I got there at 10 am and the tables were half empty at noon. The rest filled up in the next 30 minutes. I initially tried the Limbsaver on the .223 and as expected, didn't seem to make a difference so back to Amazon it goes. It was fun to try.
I set up the Caldwell chrono at the far left table which has the flattest ground in front. The problem is that the table is short so I have to crouch very low. Nothing that my chiropractor couldn't fix. Prone is also difficult for me. It took about 30 minutes to set up 15 feet out from the table. I installed the LED light shields for accuracy. Unfortunately, the chrono goes ape shit bananas in the sun so I moved it in under the shade about 4 feet out. This started working great with no errors until the 7th set when I got all errors (see attached tables). At the break, I moved it back to the edge of the shade again (about 6 feet from the table), but then couldn't measure anything for the last 3 sets. A friend told me that chronos stop working around 2 pm as the sun passes by and this was at 1:30 so I figure that might be what's happening. I then shot 15 plinking rounds and all measured fine, although the SD was bad. I subsequently had no problems with the pistol and AK shots so not sure why the chrono decided to stop working for the TAC rounds then start up again.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20915597_10213571054981036_2118844878976260965_n.jpg?oh=0a3cadec21662bc15e01fdba30a40e00&oe=5A65152B)
AR-15: TAC 22.2 to 24.0 gn (10 sets) with Nosler 62 gn HP. I shot each set consecutively because I was afraid I'd mix up the loads for the chrono. These were some of my best individual results at 0.291" mean radius. However, the results are not continuous among the ten sets so it's difficult to decide where to go next. 22.6 gn is on the left and 23.8 gn on the right. (Note: the attached charts are off by 0.2 gn. Don't ask.)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20935103_10213570955818557_1753684379164288884_o.jpg?oh=eb9175b6196ca0cad868775415853199&oe=5A2A865E)
AK-47: I forgot to move the frame back to 50 yards and I had to pick up my wife from work, so I just measured a few velocities (no errors) and called it a day. Comparing the velocity to the published load data, I'm right in the ball park.
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curious what kind of reloading equipment you have?
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curious what kind of reloading equipment you have?
Lee single stage, Lee dies, nothing fancy. I'm using the RCBS neck sizing die for the 54r (bolt rifle). RCBS measurer but also keep the Lee measurer around for the extruded powders. I also use the Hornady Lock n Load Bench Scale which allows me to reload with a fan blowing on me. I weigh each charge unless I'm feeling confident with the powder throws.
When I process brass, I use the Lee decapper then quick ultrasound to get out the gunk. After resizing and trimming, I place in a tumbler for three hours and it comes out mostly shiny. Not mirror but shiny enough for me. I use the Lee single stage to prime the brass.
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try bedding that Lee press
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try bedding that Lee press
buy it dinner first...
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I get strange website pages when I try to google that. Suggestions?
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It was a blusterous day at the range today which was a relief from the hot, humid weather we’ve had over the past couple days. I know it's bad (also for my electricity bill) when I have to leave the AC on at night to sleep. I had moved the Vortex 6x to the AK and installed the refurbished Barska 16x on the 300BLK. It took me 50 rounds of 300BLK to zero the scope but used the brass that I converted and needed to be form fired anyways. The chrono data is attached below. The MN and AK were at 50 yards and 300BLK at 100 yards.
MN: Great results with the Varget 37 to 39 gn and Hornady 174 gn RN. The bullet has been okay in the past but not like this. The group in the blue circle is the 38 gn with a few neighbors thrown in. I thought it started out bad until I adjusted the reddot over and started grouping better as I climb the ladder. For some reason, I couldn’t hit the 8” gong. Perhaps they fall apart at 100 yards. The single shot to the right is one of the boolit rounds.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21013762_10213621939573119_4904915309440939640_o.jpg?oh=2676cf86fce87b1547a1a1ae6ebce8c5&oe=5A32210A)
Had relatively great results with the cast boolits using 10 to 14 gn 700x and both Beartooth 170 gn LMN .312” and Missouri 167 gn .3115”. For Beartooth, I was able to hit paper with all five loads and 5” groups. For Missouri, the 11 and 12 gn hit paper which is a first for this bullet. Doesn’t seem like there’s much keyholing except for the top two but that could be from the paper edge. To keep the powder next to the primer, I inserted a cotton patch in each case. Seems to work.
Update: I'm having a difficult time cleaning out the residue at the front of the barrel. There was also some left over cotton in some of the cases.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20992583_10213621945213260_6687503503881202472_n.jpg?oh=d7a78b92b97e83355015e0ec05f6ea46&oe=5A16D4D7)
AK: Strange results with the accuracy and velocities. I can empirically say that my VEPR does not like CFEBLK powder. I didn’t have much luck with it last time either. I was getting 3” groups with the CFEBLK 27 to 29 gn and Hornady 123 gn Vmax. The velocities were sporadic and not close to Hodgdon’s published data.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20992727_10213621945253261_4385853868213309396_n.jpg?oh=02f6fbbaf8b2ef930c18b2890bd4cdb8&oe=5A32050D)
Slightly better results with A1680 20 to 22 gn and Hornady Vmax. I based the load data on Hornady but doesn’t seem to match the Accurate load data. The 20.5 gn shot to the upper left. When I adjusted the scope for the 21.0 gn, I started getting decent results. The velocities didn’t calm down until the 22.0 gn so perhaps need to go with higher charges like the Accurate data says.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21034608_10213621945293262_7490874428436369599_n.jpg?oh=f5b9edd2bfaca21b2df390b89f8bc3b1&oe=5A1C0003)
300BLK: I didn’t have time to shoot the load set so just fired the plinking rounds. The velocities were higher than what I expected from the published data. For some reason, I decided to leave the mags at home. Fortunately, a friendly gentleman let me borrow one of his mags. Mahalo nui.
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It was a sweat dripping into my eyes kinda day at the range. There was a light breeze coming off the ocean with a peculiar algae bloom hanging out not too far off shore. It would be a perfect day for the chrono but someone accidentally left it on. Crap. Those 9v batteries are $5 each these days. Since replacing the trigger spring back to stock, I've had no double fire issues. Between the AR, 300BLK, and Mosin Nagant, I smacked the hell out of the metal targets today. I have a new stand that I found on Ebay so should be rolling that out soon. I started using sleeve guards to stop the splinters I was getting from the tables. Perhaps we can shellac the tables some day.
AR-15: Mostly great results with the TAC 22.2 to 23.0 gn and Nosler 62 gn Varmageddon. I made 5 sets of 20 rounds each at 100 yards. What's interesting about these is that the 2.180" OAL is shorter than the normal 2.260". I was gonna shoot the 300BLK on the same target but the gun was smoking (figuratively), so I decided to shoot half and half. Each group was 5 shots each load then repeat. My only explanation for the 3 flyers I had for 22.6A is that I had a temporary lack of sanity because I don't remember having issues with those.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21248271_10213715744198176_3184306764248273498_o.jpg?oh=73a8b22976078340026c2fc29c9d79f2&oe=5A1E4037)
Except for the flyers, the data mostly matched. As it just so happened, the round ended after group A and I ran a patch through after the break. Overall, I'd have to say that 22.7 gn grouped best. :thumbsup:
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21231812_10213715744078173_4418328281244142176_n.jpg?oh=f606956108b5f1220ebd98d94e197773&oe=5A5E770B)
300BLK: Also mostly great results with the LilGun 9 to 11 gn and Nosler 190 gn. I made 5 sets of 10 rounds each at 100 yards. The difficulty with this is that for each 0.5 gn increment, the elevation increased by 1 inch so I was constantly adjusting the scope. I got some great groups once I dialed in each set with the 10 gn grouping best. It woulda been nice to have the chrono and compare the velocities. I also shot 41 of the converted brass that I made and loaded with CFEBLK 18.8 gn. These shot really high so I aimed below the metal targets. There were a few that didn't load into battery but shot after single loading. Nothing too accurate, but the metal targets felt the sting.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21272917_10213715744158175_7411860019285313563_o.jpg?oh=2036fc13141df32cb8867b306426e5b3&oe=5A1E96AF)
MN: I didn't have a load set today but instead made several rounds out of the bottom of the Varget bottle at 38 gn each and using the .311" Speer 180 gn. Coincidentally, I had just enough powder in the bottle to fill the remaining cases I had available. Generally, the .311 are not as accurate in my .312 barrel. The reason why I shot these is because I was having difficulty cleaning the cotton residue out of the end of the barrel after shooting the boolit rounds last time. It could be lead fouling but it looks like carbon debris to me. I used everything I could think of at the time: Ballistol, CLP, hot water, Gun Scrubber, squeegee. I got most of it out but not all. I'll find out if the rounds were successful in cleaning the rest out. When I was living in Vegas, I had great success with cleaning the corrosive ammo with Windex and WD40 but stopped using it after moving to Hawaii. I have Dacron in my garage so will try that next time.
My son looking at my results: "Couldn't you do the same thing with a hole puncher?"
Me: "Not from 100 yards..."
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It was another sweltering day at the range today with a lite breeze. I grabbed the last table which happened to be next to Norman and Willy. I swear that the island moves with every round he fires. The 50 cal pistol didn’t affect the chrono, but the rifle produced an Error which in the end, didn’t interfere with the data. The main problem I had with the chrono was that I couldn’t shoot at my new metal target stand without shooting out the chrono shades. From the table I was at, I couldn’t move it back and align with the 50 yard target, and I couldn’t move it forward without risking the muzzle blast interfering with the sensors. The tables on the left side are more conducive to setting up a chrono stand.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21765004_10213796255810916_6577958839442674616_n.jpg?oh=e3b7934558945c7d09c72a7b33e8ee70&oe=5A5143DC)
AR-15: I upgraded to the OnTarget TDS software and printed the targets. I really hate using the cardboard and prefer to staple the target directly to the frame post. It turns out to be a lot of work to collect and analyze the data so probably won’t be using this often. It is interesting to use when a solid load is determined.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21742948_10213796255850917_770942048909565738_n.jpg?oh=e4b15039d77925c0f369b450d5de22cc&oe=5A559733)
The chrono worked mostly well. I first started with TAC to warm up. The grouping was decent and the FPS was close, but the SD was terrible. I next shot the Nosler 77gn with 22.0 to 24.0 gn Varget at 50 yards. The first number is for the top set and the second for the bottom set. For the first set, the MOA was okay and the FPS was great. For the second set, the MOA was great and the FPS terrible which has me puzzled. I ran a patch through between sets. Otherwise, not much changed. I then shot the 55gn with the max Varget 26.4gn, and these had great accuracy and great FPS so doesn't appear to be a problem with the chrono. Note: double the displayed MOA measurement to get the average MOA.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21740409_10213796608099723_468660622865122235_n.jpg?oh=d893aaa8507a78d707e3c5bb1ec1fcfc&oe=5A42CCEB)
300BLK: I started out with several warm up shots. I bought a box of 500 of the 123gn .312” Xtreme bullets at 10 cents each plus free shipping. I resized them to .308 and loaded them with LilGun. The accuracy and velocities were both crap. Hopefully, they'll work better in the AK. Next I shot the 147gn bulk bullets with W296, and they had great accuracy and decent velocities (see above). I then shot over 50 of the 190gn with LilGun 10.0gn at 50 yards. The accuracy was good with great velocities. Overall, I like the target I used with the AR-15 better. There’s several different styles available, so it’s fun to experiment. The load is the same for both sets below and the MOA was relatively the same.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21741189_10213796483056597_3128410531964559448_o.jpg?oh=c284376b06de980606ff276e9f208c13&oe=5A4F113B)
I bought new metal target hangars off Ebay as an alternative to the chain. It didn’t work well for both calibers but was fun when the plate spun around.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21731271_10213796255930919_913720945895474546_n.jpg?oh=5bf804eb62ff020523fcca527743e5b8&oe=5A14A499)
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since you're shooting at 50 your MOA is doubled
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since you're shooting at 50 your MOA is doubled
Actually, the mean radius needs to be doubled but the software already doubles the MOA at 50 yards. However, this is based on the radius and not the mean diameter so you're right, it still needs to be doubled. I've complained about this to the software creator before but he's focused on the mean radius. Jeffrey Block is a nice guy. He refunded me the $12 I paid for the Precision Calculator after I bought the TDS for $35.
I'm still trying to figure out what happened with the second set of .223. On 9/3 above, both sets with the 62gn bullet mostly matched but not this time with the 77gn. In the attached, you can see how the first set progressed upward. There was no progression with the second set and the velocities were crap, but the groupings were better.
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do you usually load your charge weights for 223 in 0.5 grain increments? that equates to an incremental increase of over 2%.
given the low charge weights of 223, i'm almost certain that you're missing nodes in your 0.5 grain jumps.
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do you usually load your charge weights for 223 in 0.5 grain increments? that equates to an incremental increase of over 2%.
given the low charge weights of 223, i'm almost certain that you're missing nodes in your 0.5 grain jumps.
I agree. I usually follow up with 0.2 grain jumps. For example, I might load 23.2 to 24.0 gn Varget next time. I'm not confident in my scale's ability to measure 0.1 increments, plus it's a huge pain in the ass.
I'm also basing the load data from Nosler. Notice in the spreadsheet, the Nosler FPS nearly matches the FPS from my first set but not the second set.
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I agree with TooFewPews.
In my experience 77s don't start well till I hit about 2700 fps.
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It's interesting that Nosler's data doesn't go past 2700 fps. What am I missing?
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It's interesting that Nosler's data doesn't go past 2700 fps. What am I missing?
Ive clocked Atlanta Arms loads at 2900 but theyre likely using a canister grade powder not available to consumers.
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I agree with TooFewPews.
In my experience 77s don't start well till I hit about 2700 fps.
Just out of curiosity, does Kevin and yourself load to mag length/2.260" or do you guys single load?
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Just out of curiosity, does Kevin and yourself load to mag length/2.260" or do you guys single load?
for 77s, mag length
80s for sure beyond mag length ~2.450
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I was playing with the Stability Calculator. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
"The Miller stability value. It should be between 1.3 and 2.0 to ensure stabilty (the military uses 1.5)."
The result was 1.835. The weird part is when I calculate the stability for the 62gn that I shot on 8/17, I get 3.059 but had the best accuracy yet with the rifle. ??? Playing with the numbers, I should need a 1:10 to get the bullet stable.
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I was playing with the Stability Calculator. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
"The Miller stability value. It should be between 1.3 and 2.0 to ensure stabilty (the military uses 1.5)."
The result was 1.835. The weird part is when I calculate the stability for the 62gn that I shot on 8/17, I get 3.059 but had the best accuracy yet with the rifle. ??? Playing with the numbers, I should need a 1:10 to get the bullet stable.
there's only so much a program can account for.
As I stated before MANY have been down that path you are taking. A 1x7 will stabilize anything from 52 to 80s. I can say from experience and with different barrel makers from Wilson, Douglas and Shilen. Others have experienced the same with Kriegers as well.
What are you looking for in regards to reloading?
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What are you looking for in regards to reloading?
Learning new shit...
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Learning new shit...
well there you go...
most of this thread the information you post in regards to reloading is so convoluted and irrelevant
you ask for feedback and many of us give it but yet you revert to your own resources so why bother asking questions in public?
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Looking at the Nosler load data - they are using a 20" Pac Nor 1x7 twist. Pac Nor barrels also have different number of grooves which is not stated. That is a difference between your barrel and a PacNor. Notice that their loads are approaching 2700 with 24.0 RL15. That's the magic load there - and it is highlighted.
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Makes sense. I remember the 24.0 gn of Varget was starting to crunch when inserting the bullet. I might have to use the electric toothbrush trick to get more extruded powder into the case and the almost 1" bullet.
Processing the .223 brass. There were some sporadic primer flattening but no cratering. The top two in photo are 23.0gn Varget and bottom two are 24.0gn. The two on the right are flatter then the left two. I can't tell which set they were in, only the charge. Perhaps I was drinking too many vodka margaritas at the time.
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Makes sense. I remember the 24.0 gn of Varget was starting to crunch when inserting the bullet. I might have to use the electric toothbrush trick to get more extruded powder into the case and the almost 1" bullet.
Processing the .223 brass. There were some sporadic primer flattening but no cratering. The top two in photo are 23.0gn Varget and bottom two are 24.0gn. The two on the right are flatter then the left two. I can't tell which set they were in, only the charge. Perhaps I was drinking too many vodka margaritas at the time.
You're drinking alcohol and reloading? ::)
Don't do that.
This thread is already a misadventure from page 1.
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You're drinking alcohol and reloading? ::)
Don't do that.
This thread is already a misadventure from page 1.
(https://i.imgur.com/iBEHbQ2.png)
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you ask for feedback and many of us give it but yet you revert to your own resources so why bother asking questions in public?
Then why do you bother to answer the questions? Jesus, what do you want, a certificate of appreciation?
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Then why do you bother to answer the questions? Jesus, what do you want, a certificate of appreciation?
:wacko:
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Then why do you bother to answer the questions? Jesus, what do you want, a certificate of appreciation?
No.
Go down that road - but don't drink while you are doing it.
Good luck. :thumbsup:
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I thought the vodka margarita was implied. Who would drink that?
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well there you go...
most of this thread the information you post in regards to reloading is so convoluted and irrelevant
you ask for feedback and many of us give it but yet you revert to your own resources so why bother asking questions in public?
I kind of have to agree. I haven't followed this thread religiously but from the info I have seen, I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. I really don't understand the max and mean thing. I'm from the school that 3 shots test the load, 5 shots test the gun, 10 shots test the shooter theory. If your load developement doesn't follow a consistent path, all the info you get is irrelevant. If precision is your goal, I would suggest a more sytematic approach to your load developement. If precision/accuracy is not your goal, then disreagard my post.
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well there you go...
most of this thread the information you post in regards to reloading is so convoluted and irrelevant
you ask for feedback and many of us give it but yet you revert to your own resources so why bother asking questions in public?
Not trying to defend RK here as he has many times done this to my attempts to help him as well. But the title to his post is his adventure/misadventure in reloading. So I have decided to take this posting as more of a story or a novel rather than a serious attempt at trying to ascertain relevant information to attain an ultimate goal. Therefore I believe his questions and requests for help are actually rhetorical and are just his way of saying his findings are curious to him rather than actually asking us for his help.
I could certainly be wrong. But I think this post is just his attempt to share information and tell his story.
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Therefore I believe his questions and requests for help are actually rhetorical and are just his way of saying his findings are curious to him rather than actually asking us for his help.
rhetorical?
so kinda like EEF then...
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rhetorical?
so kinda like EEF then...
EXACTLY!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Mahalo Dave.
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It was a breezy day with bands of clouds drifting over the range. I didn’t dare set up the chrono today. There was a brief rain squall that rolled through before the first round started. This messed up my paper targets of course, so I switched to the new yellow targets. Unfortunately with my color blindness, the reddot appears yellow to me.
MN: More relative success with the cast boolits using 11 to 13 gn 700x and both Beartooth 170 gn LMN .312” and Missouri 167 gn .3115”. I used Dacron filler this time. The 11, 11.5, and 12 were the bottom target and the 12.5 and 13 were the top target. The 12.5gn were more accurate for both boolits, but the Missouri still sucks.
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21765356_10213857417259914_5996523038978400180_n.jpg?oh=fd6dd766e1ed4067e3c8720951b0d1a6&oe=5A472997)
Some success with the 37.6 to 38.4 gn Varget and 174gn Hornady RN, but I think the difficulties with the yellow target was confounding. Overall, I’d say the 38.2gn grouped best. In addition, I created plinking rounds with the new 123gn Xtreme bullets .312” bullets and 43.5gn IMR4895. I seated the bullets at 2.62” OAL. They seemed to work okay and hit the 8” metal target several times. More experimentation is needed.
AK: I had to use the backup paper targets which mostly worked using 22 to 24 gn A1680 and 123gn Hornady Vmax .310”. (10 = 22gn, 4 = 22.5gn, 2 = 23gn, 12 = 23.5gn, and 6 = 24gn. I haven't figured out how to rotate the image in the software.) I spent the first five rounds adjusting the scope. The 23.5gn grouped best. I started with plinker rounds of 21.0gn RL7 which continue to work well. I also made a few rounds of the Xtreme bullets using 23.0gn A1680 which were okay but not as well as the RL7. More experimentation is needed.
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21761663_10213858835975381_4043118787507680460_n.jpg?oh=50f2737694b073c5ee22c3e64c4c98e3&oe=5A3BCFDD)
Following last week’s dismal failure with the metal targets, I went back to the board but used eyelet screws. The hard part is dismantling the connectors after it’s gone through several trips to the range. Believe me, the simpler, the better. This configuration allows the metal target to swing back and forth but not side to side like the RO suggested. It worked well for the 123gn bullets but the 180gn kept knocking the stand over because the impact energy would go right into the stand. It’s a balancing act between sturdiness and carrying weight. I think I’ll go back to the chains I had before. I should mention that I also like the $75 setup they sell at KM Concepts, but I’ll stick with the current system for now.
(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21617708_10213857418019933_6469081895346452360_n.jpg?oh=bbda4adcd5447c57c20339cfec27c2de&oe=5A4E5403)
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It was a quick trip to the range today. I got a call after I set up that I needed to pick up my son so left after the first round. I was able to get in one set of the AR loads plus several heavy load plinkers. I tried the B/W targets this time (I know, ren). At first I thought I wasn’t doing well. The view would become blurry after some shots but not sure if it’s the scope or my aging eyes. I felt rushed because I had to leave early so decided to stop after one set. I’ll reload the set and try it again next time. Overall, I was mostly pleased with the results.
AR: 22.6 to 23.8 gn Varget with 77gn Nosler. After the puzzling results from my previous 77gn venture, I reloaded with 0.3 increments instead of 0.5gn. This of course messed up my groove, and I mistakenly loaded 23.6gn instead of the continuous 23.5gn. I decided to go with it instead of pulling the bullets. The 22.9gn grouped best. Unfortunately, I can't seem to match these results with my previous results so back to the drawing board.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22046891_10213906265241083_123487620804959834_n.jpg?oh=4f881f0ebbf87f615d196cdc4fc91a20&oe=5A5636AB)
I’m not able to exceed the 2700 fps goal that ren suggested. My results closely matches the expected results from Nosler. The 55gn bullet had mixed results. For some reason, the Varget was worse after the load set but then the IMR4895 worked great.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22046501_10213906265161081_2447956516456989363_n.jpg?oh=8d7e082d9146dd0acba020eac8de6526&oe=5A50B651)
Some other changes I made with the AR: installed a flat wire buffer spring (no more twang!), installed a contoured pistol grip, and installed extended takedown pins. All worked great.
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It was perfect conditions at the range yesterday with 85F and 29.93Hg. Normally I analyze the data that evening but instead had a great time drinking much beer at the Brewseum with Todd’s Meetup group. Afterwards, I took the bus home.
The chrono worked okay after a rough start. This was the first time I set up the target and the chrono between the breaks. I almost had it set right but was slightly crooked so was getting errors. I waited for the next break and got it straightened out. I had all afternoon so didn’t mind. I noticed that moving between the paper target and the metal target changed the fps by a couple 100 which usually isn’t a problem because the real measurements are always at the same target. The real problem occurred while I was shooting the resized .312” in the 300BLK which were very inaccurate. The unlikely scenario is that I somehow shot the connecting cable attached to the chrono because the insulation is broken. This meant I had to write each result down which probably effected my accuracy from taking my eye off the target each time. The first number is from the first 50 groups and the second is the other 50 groups. Ideally, they should be the same but not this time. I also included the Extreme Spread for each but didn't compare with the average measurements. I finally exceeded 3100 fps with CFE223 which I was wondering if it was ever gonna happen with this rifle.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22405412_10213990701111927_8557187085437370742_n.jpg?oh=27d72a94efa11aac760ff1fc5f764e14&oe=5A81583C)
AR-15: Continuation with the Varget load that was interrupted last time. I reloaded the 50 I had shot last time. Nosler 77gn with 22.6 to 23.8 gr Varget. (I was using the acronym gn for grain because gr confused me with gram from my college chemistry days but I’m over it now.) I think I’ve hit the limits of my accuracy abilities so not sure what I’ll try next. I have exactly 100 of the 77gr left in my stock. Maybe I’ll save them. I included in the table above the previous results. The chrono has been very consistent including the SD. Overall, I suspect there are two nodes at 22.8 and 23.8 gr. More investigation is needed. The best group was the first 22.8gr.
The thing about Varget is that it makes really dirty brass. I bought the RCBS ultrasonic cleaner from Dexter for a good deal. So far, it seems to do as good a job as the previous ultrasonic I was using but larger. I ordered a bottle of the RCBS solution so will see if that makes a difference.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22310200_10213990701031925_3687903801728980303_n.jpg?oh=464289fbcdb60610f06544d3b3d29bf9&oe=5A851548)
300BLK: I felt inspired to try the subsonic loads with Hornady 225gr HP and A1680 10.8 to 11.6 gr. I shoulda shot at 50 yards because the loads at 100 yards made kinda mess of the target. Honestly, I can’t tell much difference between supersonic and subsonic which I understand to be 1115 fps at sea level. There did seem to be a noticeable difference in accuracy depending on the speed of the bullet. If a round went wonky, I’d look at the chrono and see the speed off a bit. I was pleasantly surprised how relatively low the SD was when I crunched the numbers. Some of the hits were keyholed. I probably have to go with a higher load but then will be getting into the supersonic speeds. This was my only box and not sure if/when I’ll try subsonics again. The best group was the first 11.4gr.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22279464_10213990991239180_7117281197130221635_n.jpg?oh=0b15473ad2d536587b70a242a03971cf&oe=5A881E8D)
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I emailed Battenfeld Technologies (Caldwell) and asked how I can order a replacement audio cable and attachment plate. They are mailing it to me for free. Score! :geekdanc: It won't arrive until the 20th so no chrono until then. :(
I previously felt like the Vortex 6x was too high on the AK so I can't get a good cheek rest. I'm moving the Vortex scope ring to the 300BLK but it's 30mm and I ordered ring adapters for the Barska 1" scope and new 30mm scope rings for the Vortex 6x scope. That's the current plan...
Time to buy more small rifle primers. I've been using the CCI 450 Magnum, but I think I'll go back to the Fed Match primers now that the trigger issues have been solved.
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Well shit. It looks like Facebook is not a reliable source for hosting photos. I'm noticing the photos are starting to disappear after a month or two because they seem to spontaneously change the URL. Looks like I'll have to go with some of the other suggestions you had.
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I went to the range yesterday. It was great but my computer deleted my write up so here some pictures using Imgur.
No annoying sun glare today. Lots of erosion from last Monday's rain storm.
(https://i.imgur.com/k8xlacZ.jpg?1)
MN with new pistol scope added: 38.2gr IMR4895 with Hornady 174gr RN.
(https://i.imgur.com/e9SC3dr.jpg?1)
MN: 36 to 40 RL15 with Hornady 150gr SP. Next load will be 37 to 39 gr if I have enough left in the bottle.
(https://i.imgur.com/WpPlfhi.jpg?1)
AK: Based on previous loads, 23.2 to 24 gr A1680 with Hornady 123gr .310" on top and 23.5gr with same powder and bullet on bottom at 50 yards. Perhaps I'll try shooting the loads from highest to lowest to see if I can get the same results as the bottom target.
(https://i.imgur.com/9Ddol6S.jpg?1)
The lower AK loads had the best SD but the worst accuracy.
(https://i.imgur.com/smmd4m4.jpg)
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22046891_10213906265241083_123487620804959834_n.jpg?oh=4f881f0ebbf87f615d196cdc4fc91a20&oe=5A5636AB)
I'm sorry if I missed it in your posts but what software are you using to calculate the MOA?
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https://ontargetshooting.com/
I started with the Precision Calculator program but then upgraded to the TDS program which allows you to print the targets that the software can recognize and automatically analyze (assuming the shot is somewhat near the target). My scanner is not the best so have to brighten the scan so the program can distinguish between the target and the holes. It can also combine the shots. For example, the simple analysis for the target you quoted above:
(https://i.imgur.com/wJYgYdr.jpg?1)
The original target that I shot on Wednesday looks like this. I think I could do better but this was the first time with the pistol scope on the Mosin for some time.
(https://i.imgur.com/zb1EEMW.jpg)
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I wore out my .223 case trimmer (right) so I bought a new one (left).
(https://i.imgur.com/1IbuZCN.jpg?2)
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Recommend this:
http://www.giraudtool.com/Tri%20Way%20Trimmer.htm (http://www.giraudtool.com/Tri%20Way%20Trimmer.htm)
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I found that the Lee trimmer takes off way more brass than necessary.
I use a World's finest trimmer.
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Those are both nice but pricey (to me). I started noticing that the cases weren't cutting to the consistent 1.750" COAL as measured by my caliper. It looks like the steel has worn in both the gauge and the cutter. I'm processing brass now and seems to work again. I attach the shell holder to the drill.
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I wore out my .223 case trimmer (right) so I bought a new one (left).
(https://i.imgur.com/1IbuZCN.jpg?2)
That seems weird to me. I have an RCBS trimmer and I have trimmed 1,000's of cases and the cutting head is not worn at all. I have never replaced it. Weird. :wacko:
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It's difficult to see in the photo but the post that goes through the flash hole has a noticeable wear mark from rubbing against the brass.
I did change drills recently because the old drill battery was going bad.
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are you trimming steel cases?
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I wonder if all that wear is due to improper (or even no) hardening of the cutting and flash hole surfaces?
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are you trimming steel cases?
No, but that would be an explanation.
I wonder if all that wear is due to improper (or even no) hardening of the cutting and flash hole surfaces?
Not sure what you mean.
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No, but that would be an explanation.
Not sure what you mean.
Steel is hard. Harder than brass but can still be considered "soft". Steel used for cutting can be hardened or tempered even more than normal in order to make the cutting surface last longer. Or carbide steel can be used.
Here is Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardened_steel and see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten_carbide
So if your trimmer wore out quickly then I would think that the cutting surface and the part that goes through the flash hole was not hardened/tempered or not done very well. And probably was not carbide steel.
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Gotcha. I'll continue to work with the cutter I have and if that fails also, I'll switch to the other ones. Thanks guys.
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The Giraud TriWay has a carbide blade with 3 surfaces so while the initial investment is relatively high you may not order another again.
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We went to a stream clean up at Queen Liliuokalani Gardens before heading out to the range today. We removed almost 1,000 pounds of opala from the stream. Fortunately, someone dumped a shopping cart into the stream so we could use it to transport the heavy items to the garbage pile.
(https://i.imgur.com/apOdP6z.jpg?2)
The weather at the range was sporadic. Light breeze with the occasional strong gust. Probably didn’t help the rescue helicopter as it pulled a hiker off Kokohead and dropped them in the baseball field. The chrono was working well with a couple bean bags to weigh it down, but a strong gust knocked the chrono over. I set it up again with the large sand bag and worked again until another gust tried to blow it over. Unfortunately, the top of the mount tipped over. I'm not sure why it's built like that. I guess it's time to tape it down. My friend, Larry suggested bringing an empty water bottle that can be filled to weigh down the stand so will try that next time.
(https://i.imgur.com/fHrOI4v.jpg?1)
AR: I set up the targets and the chrono, then shot my plinker rounds until I realized I installed the wrong targets on the frame. Shit! After adjusting the chrono, the SD were great but still not able to go past the 3200fps I’m reaching for. I used my new RCBS seating/crimp die that creates a tapered crimp (instead of distinct line) which works better but only for cannelure bullets.
300BLK: I moved the Vortex scope ring from the AK to the 300BLK upper and used the plinking rounds to zero the scope. The initial shots were about 7 feet to the right. The velocities match the published data if you consider it’s for a slightly lighter bullet. For the loads, I created ten sets with 12 to 16.5 gr CFEBLK. The Nosler data shows the light loads and the Hornady shows the heavier loads, so I compromised just to see what happens. The 12 and 12.5 gr went subsonic which was a surprise. The first shot was ten inches low so had to adjust. For every 0.5gr increment, I had to lower the scope 1 MOA to keep it close to the target sticker.
(https://i.imgur.com/PWEfgok.jpg)
There were two nodes at 14 and 16.5 gr, so I’ll try these later plus perhaps investigate the subsonic loads. For the 16.5gr, I excluded the outlier but still had a relatively nice group.
(https://i.imgur.com/WnVcC2g.png?1)
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It was a gorgeous day at the range today. About 84F and 29.95Hg. This was a continuation of my previous trip on Saturday when I ran out of time and only shot half of the AR plinking rounds. There were some interesting results. The chrono was working well despite the sunshade popping off twice. I could hear Larry laughing at me with his Labradar.
(https://i.imgur.com/yUamy7s.jpg?1)
AR: The table below compares the plinking rounds I shot today with the ones (in grey) I shot on Saturday. Overall, they matched well. I started with the TAC 25.8gr with Hornady 55gr FMJ and broke the 3200 FPS barrier I’ve been up against. Interestingly, they shot 50 FPS slower after shooting the 77HP bullets. The accuracy was pretty good but the SD were not so good. The Varget 26.4gr was another max charge (aka kick ass) round. These were created from the left over powder in the bottle, and the purpose is to see how fast I can choot em. The Varget were not as accurate as the TAC rounds, but the SD were pretty good. The 1.872” listed is the best group out of four. I also shot the last of the 300BLK rounds from the converted brass. I'm perfecting my conversion technique except for a FTF at the end.
(https://i.imgur.com/3ObovWo.jpg?1)
AR: I ran a patch down the barrel and shot 50 rounds of Varget 22.9gr with the Nosler 77gr from previous trips. I shot five rounds to zero the scope, then shot one per target. I then started over again with the remaining 20 rounds. I usually would not include the extreme flyers except for the strange phenomenon that I seemed to shoot the same flyers at the same target despite not being consecutive.
(https://i.imgur.com/BernuyT.jpg?1)
As a result, there was a low mean radius of .348” and an extreme spread of 1.275” or 3.7 times greater. Weird.
(https://i.imgur.com/Wq8ab7i.jpg?1)
I took this photo with the sun glare in the back. The first set of TAC rounds is on the right and the second somewhat group is on the left.
(https://i.imgur.com/n4CB1Tb.jpg?1)
I had one almost squib round. I pulled the bullet and sure enough, no powder which is shocking because I’m meticulous about checking the cases before seating the bullets. Fortunately, I used the new seating/crimp die that creates a tapered crimp to the top of the cannelure and prevented the bullet from exiting the chamber. I was probably too distracted with the new die procedure while charging the cases.
(https://i.imgur.com/n6S7Lhi.jpg?1)
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Spent last Saturday at the range with the HPU vet students. They were shooting the AK Tulammo x39 until I ran out of the box then shot the A1680 23.5gr ammo I loaded. I previously cut off more of the dust cover to keep the bullet from colliding the edge. This inadvertently bounced the case against the charging handle and caused dents in the neck. I’ll try to cut more off to see if it improves.
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It was a sporadically windy day at the range. It went from 30 mph gusts to dead stop to gusts again, so I decided not to bother with the chrono. From the beginning, the range was half full. I decided not to bring the metal targets because it's difficult to line up the 50 yard line and the 100 yard line through the chrono but regretted my decision.
MN: Started with 15 of the .312” 170gr Beartooth cast boolits with 12.5gr 700x. I didn’t bother to adjust the scope and just ran them where they were. It’s taken quite a bit of work to find a load that will work with this boolit. I haven’t yet bought a powder that won’t spare me the ire of Inspector, but it’s on my Christmas list. In addition, I ran a few of the Xtreme .312" bullets using the range listed in the Lyman book. I used up the last of the RL15 powder in the bottle from 47 to 51 gr. The 49.0 and 49.5 were somewhat near the center. The rounds sure do pack a wallop. It woulda been nice to have velocities. I also made kick-ass 48.5 gr with the Hornady bullet but decided to save those until I can use the chrono again. After all, what's the point of shooting kick-ass rounds if you can't measure the velocities?
(https://i.imgur.com/nH3AteS.jpg?1)
I next had the best results so far with the Russian rifle. I’ve used Reloader 15 before but don’t remember having this much success. These are 37 to 39 gr with the 150gr Hornady SP .312” bullet. What’s unique about this set is that each group is about the same. I wish I had velocities to help me decided. I guess it’s time to move it out to 100 yards now that I’m using the 7x scope instead of the reddot before.
(https://i.imgur.com/K8APoXt.jpg?1)
AK: I had pretty much the same results as I had last time where I liked the warm up/follow up groups but not the load set groups. I feel like I’m spraying all over the paper at 50 yards with the H335 25.8 to 27.8 gr and Hornady .310 PT. As I mentioned before, I cut more off of the dust cover to keep the brass from deflecting off the edge. However like before, the tip of the cases are hitting (I’m guessing) the charging handle and denting the necks. I’ll have to see how they straighten out during resizing. Otherwise, I’ll have to buy a new dust cover and be happy with cases bouncing off the plastic buffer I glue to the edge.
(https://i.imgur.com/ThAyg2m.jpg?1)
In the meantime, I’ve already loaded up the AR rounds over Thanksgiving, so hopefully I can pick a less windy day to use my chrono.
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It was a gorgeous day at the range with a mild 78F and 30.05Hg. The chrono worked great until the magical 2 pm timeframe. I think it occurs when the sun peaks over the shed and lights up the sunshades but not the chrono. I could move the chrono back into the sun which would require a readjustment during the break. I was having trouble with the 300BLK scope and I started to make a mess of the target, so I decided to call it a day. Except for the 300BLK rounds, the velocities were about 100 FPS below the published velocities.
(https://i.imgur.com/SacTCCu.jpg)
AR: I shot two sets of CFE223 25 to 27 gr with Nosler 62HP at 100 yards. I also shot the kick ass rounds I made of H4198 21.0 gr before, between, and after. These shot well and performed great. The first set of CFE223 shot really well and I got a fantastic result with the 26gr and an extreme spread of 0.766”. The second set were not as tight as the first set and slightly to the left. There was a break between the middle kick ass rounds and the second set. I wanted to run a patch through but forgot the rod at home.
I experimented with using an air pump and rubber hose between each 10 round load. I ran the air pump for about 30 seconds but not sure how much it impacted the barrel temperature. I’ll try again and see if it repeats. For the photo below, the first set of CFE223 26gr is on the left and second set on the right. Needless to say, I choked with the second set. In the table above, I didn't include the five shots outside of the target circle, so the results are not conclusive. My next attempt will be 25.6 to 26.4 gr.
(https://i.imgur.com/9hWGWtt.png)
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It was another windy day at the range, so no chrono. I tried out my new T/C 6.5 Creedmoor rifle. With the rebate that ends at the end of the month, the cost was $200 with $55 S/H. I mounted a cheap 9x scope which I’ll eventually upgrade. I shot 20 rounds of 125gr, but also bought the reloading supplies including Hornady dies so will be loading up Hornady ELD-M 140gr with RL15. The trigger is adjustable and was at 6#. It felt really smooth. I'll try adjusting it down to 3 or 4 pounds.
The 50 yard scope zero is on left and 100 on right. I can barely see the 100 yard with the cheap scope.
(https://i.imgur.com/kGTc9tc.jpg)
MN: Tried the RL15 37 to 39 gr for both 150gr SP and 174gr RN bullets at 100 yards. I didn’t get nearly the success that I got the previous week at 50 yards. The best I could get with 38gr RL15 was 1.28” ES with the 150gr and 1.50” ES with the 174gr. The rest of the loads are a complete mess. I guess I’ll go back to 50 yards and see if I can reproduce my previous results.
I finally picked up a bottle of RL7 for $40 and a bottle of Unique for $35 at WGS, the only store I've found on the island that stocks these powders. I find that SEC and HGS are cheaper for the common powders, and SEC especially for primers. Sheldon at the range was telling me that Unique and H4198 are not positional powders so no filler needed for reduced loads. He shoots 29gr of H4198 in his 30-06 with jacketed bullets.
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The first 50 batch of 6.5 Creedmoor are complete. The Hornady dies are really nice. Can't wait to try it with a cannelure someday but don't plan on crimping anytime soon.
(https://i.imgur.com/RphpUba.jpg)
Using my special lubricant of eggnog and tequila. :geekdanc: Remember, don't drink and drive...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txJ5i6PgGsA
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Merry Christmas everyone! It’s was a "chilly" day at the range yesterday at 74F with variable winds from three different directions. I didn’t feel like messing with the chrono today. Larry was there also and he didn’t bother with his Labradar either. As you can see below, problems with scopes again. I'm working on it...
6.5 CM: I bought a new scope for this rifle, so installed the Vortex 6x scope until it arrives. With the old scope, I was too ambitious and shot at 100 yards but discovered that I could barely see the 2” orange circles. The reticle was covering up the middle of the circles and had to line up with the other targets. I forgot to circle the targets with a black marker to make the circles easier to see which worked well last time. I made 50 rounds of RL15 33 to 37 gr with Hornady 140 gr ELD-M (5 x 10 rounds). Then for some inexplicable reason, I put the next target over this target and had to sort it out when I got home. I usually take a photo of the target at the range for just such an emergency, but not this time. In the end, the best groups were between 35 and 36 gr with an ES of 1.5". For Christmas, I bought myself 800 rounds of Nosler 140HPBT for 14 cents each and free shipping. I don't know when USPS delivered the package, but I looked outside my kitchen window and saw the box sitting on my lanai table. My muzzle break also arrived. Merry Christmas indeed.
AR: Continuation of the previous load using 25.6 to 26.4 gr CFE223 with the 62HP Nosler (5 x 10 rounds then repeat). Like before, the 26gr grouped best, mostly. However, about 1 out of 5 were a flyer and I excluded them from the table. It would have been nice to have a chrono to see if the flyers had off velocities. In addition, I received a free 16" barrel from Bear Creek Arsenal after sending them a copy of my DD214 as part of their Veterans Day promotion. It's a 4150 .223 Wylde 1:9 carbine length. I'm gradually putting together the upper parts. Not sure what I'll do with it after I take it out to the range to test.
300Blk: I lost confidence with the Barska scope after I switched it to the Vortex 30mm mount with the 1” ring adapters. I reinstalled the 1 inch rings and made 50 rounds of H110 14gr using the surplus bullets. I’m still not sure because I was again too ambitious with the 100 yards. I have another scope arriving soon and will try that.
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It was a perfect conditions day at the range. Just right for using the chrono. Had only one error which was awesome considering that the sun was creeping past the sunshades between 11:30 and noon. Too bad the groups were ugly. With the gross SD velocities, I can conclude these are the wrong powders for the guns/bullets. What was also ugly was the traffic and crowds. Through the holidays, it takes 10 minutes up the hill to Hanauma Bay as visitors discover that the parking lot is full. When I got to the range at 10:30, I had to wait to find a parking space then a short wait for a table. Fortunately, I got one of my favorites at table 39 because it’s tall and not so steep in front for the chrono.
(https://i.imgur.com/QfYBLe6.jpg)
6.5 Creedmoor: I installed the new 18x scope and used the new Nosler 140gr RDF bullets that Santa left on my lanai for me to discover on Christmas morning. I zerod the scope with the previous Hornady ELD-M bullets. Although they are the same grain, I realized the published top load for the Hornady bullet is 39.5gr compared to 36.5gr for the Nosler bullet. At 35.5gr, the Hornady bullet shot slower than the Nosler bullet but had similar groups. I have lots of the Nosler bullets now so plan to obtain some H4350 or RL17 depending on what the LGS has available.
AK-47: I shot some left over A1680 rounds from before and had a great velocity SD with a typical 2” group (it’s not a precision rifle). I next compared the Hornady 123gr bullet to the Nosler 123gr bullet. Overall, the Hornady is a bit more accurate with a better SD. However, I decided the H335 was not good for the AK. Maybe I’ll get H322 next time. I then repeated the load from last time with 25.8 to 27.8 gr H335 and the Hornady 123gr Vmax. This time, the two highest charges grouped best with the 27.8gr having a better SD velocity.
The main reason for shooting the AK was to see how the extraction modification performs. I cut away enough of the dust cover so the brass does not hit the sides but was smacking against the charging handle cause deep gouges. I inserted a thick rubber hose piece over the charging handle and it mostly worked except a few that may have still hit the metal tip. I’ll use a bit longer hose next time. Most of the necks were slightly bent in, which is easily fixed with the resizing die.
At one point, I had to stop shooting and wait a couple minutes for the stupid egret that was interested in my sand splashes to pass by. Later, someone said there’s a dead egret a couple lanes over but not sure if the same one. Those birds are so stupid. At least the chickens know to stay close to the shelter and not wonder off into the fields of fire.
(https://i.imgur.com/3erWFKd.jpg)
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It was a sunny and squalish day at the range. This probably means the grass will grow a couple inches again. Despite the wind gusts, I decided to risk using the chrono using the water jug and bungee. It worked perfectly. The only error I got was when the rain may have covered the sensors. Fortunately, it appears to be water resistant. When I arrived at 9 am, I got the last parking spot and the last table. I left at noon to pick up my son from the airport. The chono data is attached below.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZVUWnJK.jpg)
MN: I shot mostly the .312” cast boolit with gas checks today. This was the last batch from the box I bought from Beartooth Bullets. I ordered two more boxes but takes about two months to complete the order. I also shot some of the Missouri cast boolits but again, only 3 out of 11 hit paper. The Beartooth continue to be mostly successful with the Dacron filler. Sometimes, there would be fluff poofing out the barrel. It’s actually a bit comical.
I started with the left over RL15 48.2gr I had. I didn’t have time to set up the chrono until after my first round. Fortunately, there are so many taking their time with their targets that I had plenty of time to move the chrono. I shot 3 at the beginning then 3 afterwards to help clear out the filler residue from the barrel. I made a batch of Ed’s Red solvent (google it) which should help clean out the residue. The first 3 had an awesome group of 0.78”, but the other 3 were almost twice that with a bad SD. I also shot the Xtreme .312 bullets and only a few hit paper. They had an impressive velocity of 2968fps. It looks like they tumble by the looks of the holes.
I finally found a source of Unique powder at WGS. The 11 and 12 gr were terrible with awful SD, but the 12.5, 13, and 14 tightened up. The 14gr had an amazing 1 SD out of the 3 rounds. I didn't bother adjusting the scope and aimed for the target above because they have about a foot drop compared to the jacketed bullets.
(https://i.imgur.com/ttHC2xW.jpg)
I also got the RL7 at WGS. The problem is that I can’t remember where I got the load data for it. I guess I’ll update the chart when I figure it out. Most of the SD were meh so not sure if I’ll play around with it more or delegate the powder to the AK who loves it with the V-Max. There’s not much to see here so let’s move on.
6.5 Creedmoor: I was anxious to try the new IMR4350 and Superformance powders I obtained. I started each with mid-load rounds to check the zero using the new Nosler 140gr RDF and the last of the Hornady ELD-M. With the I4350, the velocity SD was mostly great. The Hornady velocities were about 150fps slower than the manual says which matches my previous results. The Nosler velocities were about 60fps slower than the manual. The I4350 39.0gr with the Nosler 140gr RDF grouped best with a 6 SD so I’ll try between 38.5 and 39.5 gr next time.
(https://i.imgur.com/Z9UF1OM.jpg)
Nosler doesn’t have load data for Superformance but Hornady does. The zero shots with the Superformance 42gr had an awesome 0.695 MOA group. The velocity SD were bad for all of the shots, and each group had an annoying tendency to have one flyer for each 5 round group which can be seen in the disparity between the Mean Radius and Extreme Spread measurements. I’ll try again between 41.5 and 42.5 gr with the Nosler 140gr RDF.
(https://i.imgur.com/YfuqXcz.jpg)
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Here is the equipment I use in reloading. Most of the items I’ve bought through Amazon Prime. I’ve also bought many items used from the forum. I’m using the Hornady manual and Lyman manual in addition to what’s available on the manufacturer’s website. I estimate that this is over $1,000 of equipment I’ve collected over 2 years.
• I started out with the Lee single stage kit. I’m still using the priming system with the kit. I also use the case cutter and lock stud for trimming with my electric drill. I check the case OAL with my digital caliper. The gauge/holder is purchased for each caliber. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00162RM3E
• Lee Precision Decapping Die. I first decap the primers in the fired brass because I don’t like decapping and resizing the dirty brass at the same time. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SF2ZXU
• RCBS Ultrasonic Case Cleaner. I then ultrasonic clean the brass before resizing. I’m using the Hornady One Shot cleaning solution. I use a Qtip to clean the primer pockets. https://www.amazon.com/RCBS-87055-Ultrasonic-Case-Cleaner/dp/B00B4S9VDE
• Lee Precision Pacesetter Dies. I’ve also bought the RCBS .223/5.56 S/B T/C set (11107), RCBS 7.62x54r Neck Sizer (29030), and Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor Die (546289). To lubricate the cases, I use either Dillon Case Lube or the Imperial Sizing Die Wax.
• Lee Precision Breech Lock Bushings https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GG8ET6
• For .223, I’m now using the Worlds Finest Trimmer 2 because I was having consistency trouble with the Lee Gauge. I may add other chamber calibers later. https://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Finest-Trimmer-223-Rem/dp/B019EFSZSA
• Lyman Case Prep Multi Tool to debur/chamfer the cases. https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Case-Prep-Multi-Tool/dp/B004MCMCYE
• To decrimp the LC brass, I attach the RCBS Trim Mate Military Crimp Remover-SM to my electric drill. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0063IDE6A
• Lyman Small Rifle Ammo Checker to verify the rounds will chamber. I also have the Frankford Arsenal Impact Bullet Puller when things go wrong. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00URUE85G
• Hornady Case Tumbler for about 3 hours with corn media and polish. I use a Frankford Arsenal Media Separator to separate the brass from the media and use a Qtip to clean the primer pockets. https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-M-1-Case-Tumbler-110V/dp/B06XFVYH9K
• For extruded powders, I use the Lee Precision Perfect Powder Measurer that was in the Lee kit. For ball powders, I use the RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure. https://www.amazon.com/Whole-Family-9010-Uniflow-Measure/dp/B000N8LHDI
• Hornady Electronic Scale to weigh the powder. This works for me because I always have to have a fan on me and the cover protects against the air flow. I’m confident with measuring down to 0.2gr. Even touching the table will deflect the scale by 0.1gr. https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-50108-Electronic-Scale-Grain/dp/B004EXPKJA
• When measuring, I use the Lyman E-Zee Flow Universal Powder Trickler or I use a scoop from the Lee Powder Measure Kit. https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Zee-Universal-Powder-Trickler/dp/B00162QGPO
• I then have various MTM ammo boxes and use a Brother Labelizer to label the ammo boxes. I also track my results in an Excel spreadsheet.
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I am reading this in a thick kentucky accent...
Here is the equipment I use in reloading. Most of the items I’ve bought through Amazon Prime. I’ve also bought many items used from the forum. I’m using the Hornady manual and Lyman manual in addition to what’s available on the manufacturer’s website. I estimate that this is over $1,000 of equipment I’ve collected over 2 years.
• I started out with the Lee single stage kit. I’m still using the priming system with the kit. I also use the case cutter and lock stud for trimming with my electric drill. I check the case OAL with my digital caliper. The gauge/holder is purchased for each caliber. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00162RM3E
• Lee Precision Decapping Die. I first decap the primers in the fired brass because I don’t like decapping and resizing the dirty brass at the same time. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SF2ZXU
• RCBS Ultrasonic Case Cleaner. I then ultrasonic clean the brass before resizing. I’m using the Hornady One Shot cleaning solution. I use a Qtip to clean the primer pockets. https://www.amazon.com/RCBS-87055-Ultrasonic-Case-Cleaner/dp/B00B4S9VDE
• Lee Precision Pacesetter Dies. I’ve also bought the RCBS .223/5.56 S/B T/C set (11107), RCBS 7.62x54r Neck Sizer (29030), and Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor Die (546289). To lubricate the cases, I use either Dillon Case Lube or the Imperial Sizing Die Wax.
• Lee Precision Breech Lock Bushings https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GG8ET6
• For .223, I’m now using the Worlds Finest Trimmer 2 because I was having consistency trouble with the Lee Gauge. I may add other chamber calibers later. https://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Finest-Trimmer-223-Rem/dp/B019EFSZSA
• Lyman Case Prep Multi Tool to debur/chamfer the cases. https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Case-Prep-Multi-Tool/dp/B004MCMCYE
• To decrimp the LC brass, I attach the RCBS Trim Mate Military Crimp Remover-SM to my electric drill. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0063IDE6A
• Lyman Small Rifle Ammo Checker to verify the rounds will chamber. I also have the Frankford Arsenal Impact Bullet Puller when things go wrong. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00URUE85G
• Hornady Case Tumbler for about 3 hours with corn media and polish. I use a Frankford Arsenal Media Separator to separate the brass from the media and use a Qtip to clean the primer pockets. https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-M-1-Case-Tumbler-110V/dp/B06XFVYH9K
• For extruded powders, I use the Lee Precision Perfect Powder Measurer that was in the Lee kit. For ball powders, I use the RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure. https://www.amazon.com/Whole-Family-9010-Uniflow-Measure/dp/B000N8LHDI
• Hornady Electronic Scale to weigh the powder. This works for me because I always have to have a fan on me and the cover protects against the air flow. I’m confident with measuring down to 0.2gr. Even touching the table will deflect the scale by 0.1gr. https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-50108-Electronic-Scale-Grain/dp/B004EXPKJA
• When measuring, I use the Lyman E-Zee Flow Universal Powder Trickler or I use a scoop from the Lee Powder Measure Kit. https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Zee-Universal-Powder-Trickler/dp/B00162QGPO
• I then have various MTM ammo boxes and use a Brother Labelizer to label the ammo boxes. I also track my results in an Excel spreadsheet.
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I am reading this in a thick kentucky accent...
say boolits
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Probably would give me more street cred...
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Probably would give me more street cred...
Yup. As much as Barbara Streisand.
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Why are you insulting me?
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Why are you insulting me?
I guess he has kinfolk in Kentucky.
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Why are you insulting me?
How can I insult yo by comparing you to Barbara Streisand? Despite her liberalness she's a great singer and won Grammys
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How can I insult yo by comparing you to Barbara Streisand? Despite her liberalness she's a great singer and won Grammys
She also hates Trump.
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Ugh, I hate her (except for What's Up Doc?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxqK1dRpIgo
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alright here ya go...
I'll call you Krazy-Klapp
along the style of Eazy-E
(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Eazy-E32.jpg)
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alright here ya go...
I'll call you Krazy-Klapp
along the style of Eazy-E
I always heard the klapp was bad. I can't imagine how much worse krazy-klapp could be! :crazy:
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That's juvenile...
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That's juvenile...
(http://cache.vevo.com/Content/VevoImages/video/06F791794346D7A64AFA58011EFC7754.jpg)
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That's juvenile...
You're the expert on juvenile, Mr. Peanut Gallery who posts on every thread.
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:stopjack: :wtf:
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You're the expert on juvenile, Mr. Peanut Gallery who posts on every thread.
That's calling the kettle black...
The problem with this forum is that there isn't enough talk about firearms. I appreciate the political discussion but how often do people actually talk about going to the range or tournament or whatever related to actually firing a weapon? Not enough in my opinion. Instead you have to go on my thread and insult me. Get a life! I periodically insult politicians like Trump or Pelosi but that's what they're paid for. I sometimes troll you but I don't insult you personally so grow up.
Earlier today, I tried to support you with your listing for the ultrasonic cleaner by also stating that it works well with cleaning brass. You actually Liked my post. Then you go on my post to complain that I post on every thread. Are you schizophrenic? This is not an insult to you but a genuine concern for your mental well being.
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I agree Rklapp. This thread of yours is entertaining but there are times when its painful to watch as there are steps you miss or needlessly labor over. At least you are safe and never experienced an event.
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I appreciate your advice (as long as it's a cheap fix). I haven't moved my scope forward but I raised it up to keep my head straighter and I'm using a rear bag that I bought off a forum member. Most of the advice I get comes from YouTubers with a Kentucky accent.
Also, I did buy the World's Finest Trimmer for the .223 I was having issues with.
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The problem with this forum is that there isn't enough talk about firearms. I appreciate the political discussion but how often do people actually talk about going to the range or tournament or whatever related to actually firing a weapon? Not enough in my opinion.
I tend to agree there. However, with firearms, it’s rare to have much new to talk about that hasn’t been done before. Lots of things get rehashed to newer shooters or those new to the forum. I dont mind at all, but there are often those who tend to be short on such topics as they tend to have been beaten to death. Like the 9 vs 45, AR vs AK, is 22 lr enough for defense, etc.
I don’t reload, so I can’t help you much. Don’t take this the wrong way, but it was frustrating helping you in the threads that I could help since you tend to want to do things your way and they tend to be one where you learn the hard way. Lots of folks try to help, but you do your own thing, many times in spite of the good feedback. Which is perfectly fine. As ren said, as long as you’re safe, that’s the main thing. I do see that you truly enjoy the experience and it takes a lot to share your experiences, especially when they open yourself up to criticism. I applaud your efforts, but it is often painful to watch at times.
I truly enjoy shooting. I enjoy discussing shooting, but there comes a point where there aren’t much to discuss. I was staff on another national gun board that went to shit because of political discussion.
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Thanks d1k.
Wait until you see the AR-15 upper I put together with the free barrel that Bear Creek Arsenal sent me and parts I bought from Dexter.
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I agree Rklapp. This thread of yours is entertaining but there are times when its painful to watch as there are steps you miss or needlessly labor over. At least you are safe and never experienced an event.
I agree with this. Early on I noticed some were giving good advice that wasn't taken or followed. It really is your thread and your experiences to post. Your goals may not be what others may be working towards. Lately it's been entertaining. ;D ;D ;D
I will say I don't quite grasp the max and mean thing. I don't believe in "fliers". My thought is way too many shooters blame fliers but most of the time it's the shooter that caused the errant shot and not the ammo or gun.
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I don’t reload, so I can’t help you much. Don’t take this the wrong way, but it was frustrating helping you in the threads that I could help since you tend to want to do things your way and they tend to be one where you learn the hard way. Lots of folks try to help, but you do your own thing, many times in spite of the good feedback. Which is perfectly fine. As ren said, as long as you’re safe, that’s the main thing. I do see that you truly enjoy the experience and it takes a lot to share your experiences, especially when they open yourself up to criticism. I applaud your efforts, but it is often painful to watch at times.
In my experience, there are many that ask for help and do exactly the opposite of what you tell them. It happens in all aspects of my life. I too just take it as some just got to learn the hard way.
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I agree with this. Early on I noticed some were giving good advice that wasn't taken or followed. It really is your thread and your experiences to post. Your goals may not be what others may be working towards. Lately it's been entertaining. ;D ;D ;D
I will say I don't quite grasp the max and mean thing. I don't believe in "fliers". My thought is way too many shooters blame fliers but most of the time it's the shooter that caused the errant shot and not the ammo or gun.
Thanks Bushido. My goal is to figure out which load worked best that day with that powder and that bullet, then decide where to "adventure" next. I use the max and mean to help me decide. When I'm not reloading, I'm usually reviewing my past results or watching reloading porn on YT.
I admit that most of the flyers are my fault, probably because I pulled. I try to be consistent with each load. Sometimes the load is just crap with crap velocity SD. Like someone said (may have been you), all of this has already been published in various books and websites. It's the discovery I'm looking for.
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Happy Martin Luther King Day everyone. I took advantage of the open range and school holiday to avoid the highway traffic through Honolulu. The only traffic I hit was going up the hill to Hanauma Bay at 1 pm and through Hawaii Kai after 4 pm. The rest of the drive was smooth. I tried to get out there earlier and meet up with Oldfart but got stuck at work. I’m really pleased with the chrono and the water jug trick. I’m getting really good at setting up my target and the chrono during the break.
300BLK: First time with the new Weaver scope. I zerod the scope with H110 and some hot CFEBLK. This is a continuation of the load I initially ran on November 4th. My first load was supersonic CFEBLK with the 13.7gr grouping best and decent SD. The velocities are also not far off from the published FPS. I know I pulled the one to the upper left, so I left it out of the group.
(https://i.imgur.com/JcKmQaV.jpg)
The subsonics were a mess with the 11gr kinda grouping and a 954fps with a 14 SD. I probably won’t try these Noslers again at subsonic, but it was fun to hear the rounds go p-ting!
AR: I think something’s wrong with the Vortex scope. I have to turn the parallax between 25 and 50 yards to see the 100 yard clearly. When I shot a 5 round group, the fifth one was blurry but cleared up with the next group. The Vortex rep said it’s probably heat waves, so I shot three groups of three this time and I took off the sunshade. The problem became progressively worse and could be corrected by adjusting the parallax up or down. I don’t believe its heat coming off the barrel.
I was able to exceed the 3200fps with the H335 like I was able to previously with the TAC. I wish I had the steel targets to hit, but I’m trying to reimagine what I want to do with the steel. The TAC loads were a bit of a mess with awful velocity SD. The best group was with the lowest 22.5gr using the new Nosler 70gr RDF bullets I bought. It appears I went too hot with this load.
(https://i.imgur.com/ItJAOED.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rUM55DX.jpg)
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5163436ce4b0b470bd1fbb00/t/5a58fc5c71c10b2e4225e3a3/1515781226588/22cal-70gr-RDF-bullet-info.jpg?format=500w)
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RK--
You are presenting a lot of information in this thread.
Way more than I, or most people here can ingest. I think you should have a completely separate website for all this.
I think there may be a lot of people outside of this venue that would find it useful.
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6.5 Creedmoor: I was anxious to try the new IMR4350 and Superformance powders I obtained. I started each with mid-load rounds to check the zero using the new Nosler 140gr RDF and the last of the Hornady ELD-M. With the I4350, the velocity SD was mostly great. The Hornady velocities were about 150fps slower than the manual says which matches my previous results. The Nosler velocities were about 60fps slower than the manual. The I4350 39.0gr with the Nosler 140gr RDF grouped best with a 6 SD so I’ll try between 38.5 and 39.5 gr next time.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Z9UF1OM.jpg[/img
Nosler doesn’t have load data for Superformance but Hornady does. The zero shots with the Superformance 42gr had an awesome 0.695 MOA group. The velocity SD were bad for all of the shots, and each group had an annoying tendency to have one flyer for each 5 round group which can be seen in the disparity between the Mean Radius and Extreme Spread measurements. I’ll try again between 41.5 and 42.5 gr with the Nosler 140gr RDF.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/YfuqXcz.jpg[/img
why did you go from shooting 20-round groups to 5-round groups? i thought you said that you believed 20-round groups to be superior. your choice to switch seems a little arbitrary.
Yes, generally that's what happens except I shoot groups of 20 instead of 3 to 5. Just my preference. If I did it the way you mention, my trip to the range would last 30 minutes and that's no fun. I do give it a short break in between loading the next 5 round set, but I admit that I tend to rush things when I'm having fun. I'd say my quest is to discover what works best so I can decide what to try next time.
I'm not most people. If you shoot 3 rounds of 10 loads, then each load is an average. I shoot 20 rounds of 5 loads because I don't care, so I use the average MOA.
Here's why I don't shoot small groups to measure accuracy. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/12/daniel-zimmerman/understanding-rifle-precision/
In order to shoot sub MOA, 95% of the shots (19 out of 20) have to fit within a 1.05" diameter circle at 100 yards (defined as 1 MOA). The 95% group is two standard deviations from the mean. In order to accomplish this, the mean radius of the shots has to be within 0.27" from the group center. For extreme spread, a 3 shot group needs to be within 0.48" distance apart to be 1 MOA but statistically, a 10 shot group is more precise and reproducible than a 3 or 5 shot group. The smaller groups are useful for OCW determination to discount fouling and heat.
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why did you go from shooting 20-round groups to 5-round groups? i thought you said that you believed 20-round groups to be superior. your choice to switch seems a little arbitrary.
I decided to go with 10x10 groups for the AR rifles where I repeat the five loads to see if I can reproduce the results. That's why in the spreadsheet, you see two numbers with the first 5x10 and then the repeat 5x10. However, I suspect that scope issues have compounded the recent results. I only shoot 5-round groups with the larger rifles, most recently with the cast boolits.
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The problem with this forum is that there isn't enough talk about firearms. I appreciate the political discussion but how often do people actually talk about going to the range or tournament or whatever related to actually firing a weapon? Not enough in my opinion.
I happen to agree with you on this. So I have had a pet project I have put on hold that I am going to get started on in the next week or two. Testing .22LR ammo in my rifle. I will share all of my results with everyone. Though I doubt anyone is really interested in results of .22LR ammo testing.
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RK--
You are presenting a lot of information in this thread.
Way more than I, or most people here can ingest. I think you should have a completely separate website for all this.
I think there may be a lot of people outside of this venue that would find it useful.
Thanks OF. Sorry I wasn't able to meet up with you at the range but was short on time.
To be honest, I'm weary of the purists like TFP.
I happen to agree with you on this. So I have had a pet project I have put on hold that I am going to get started on in the next week or two. Testing .22LR ammo in my rifle. I will share all of my results with everyone. Though I doubt anyone is really interested in results of .22LR ammo testing.
Thanks Dave, will these be reloaded .22 ammo? I've done some velocity testing with Blazer .22 in my 1911-22. With my crappy pistol, functionality is more important than accuracy. Blazer and CCI work well but not Federal so much. I'm still working through the Blazer brick I bought at the Gun Show last spring.
bullet/powder gr FPS SD #
Blazer 22LR 1068 22 5
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Thanks Dave, will these be reloaded .22 ammo? I've done some velocity testing with Blazer .22 in my 1911-22. With my crappy pistol, functionality is more important than accuracy. Blazer and CCI work well but not Federal so much. I'm still working through the Blazer brick I bought at the Gun Show last spring.
bullet/powder gr FPS SD #
Blazer 22LR 1068 22 5
To be honest I probably will never attempt to reload a .22 cartridge. Though I did post about a kit on the forum here that is made just for casting a .22 boolit and a seating die along with some load data and instructions for making and applying the primer in a used cartridge. I had a line on 1k brand new cases already primed. And the guy backed out on selling them to me. I would have attempted doing serious reloading of a .22LR cartridge if I was able to buy those. Reloading a .22LR cartridge is a project on my list but at the bottom of my list so I will probably never get around to it. I am not sure if I am going to attempt to do any .22LR pistol testing though I could give it the old college try. Only thing s my pistol is old and designed for Standard Velocity (SV) ammo only. So I won't be able to test High Velocity or Hyper Velocity ammo. I am still trying to figure out how to organize my results so they make sense.
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Thanks Bushido. My goal is to figure out which load worked best that day with that powder and that bullet, then decide where to "adventure" next. I use the max and mean to help me decide. When I'm not reloading, I'm usually reviewing my past results or watching reloading porn on YT.
I admit that most of the flyers are my fault, probably because I pulled. I try to be consistent with each load. Sometimes the load is just crap with crap velocity SD. Like someone said (may have been you), all of this has already been published in various books and websites. It's the discovery I'm looking for.
I will say that if shooting 100y, you will see that the load with the best SD doesn't always match the load with the best group. I have seen this many times. 100y is just too short for SD to make a huge difference IME. It is something to look at but don't put too much weight on it for 100y. If you do also shoot long range then I can see looking for better SD, ES and bullets with higher BCs.
Also are you taking into account barrel temp and rounds "cooking" in your AR chamber? It seems you Shoot a high round count for load workup. I'm guessing by the time you shoot your last load, the barrel and chamber temp is nowhere near from your first group. It could give you erroneous data.
I apologize if this was already mentioned. Like I said I don't really follow this thread or the forum in general on a regular basis.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I will say that if shooting 100y, you will see that the load with the best SD doesn't always match the load with the best group. I have seen this many times. 100y is just too short for SD to make a huge difference IME. It is something to look at but don't put too much weight on it for 100y. If you do also shoot long range then I can see looking for better SD, ES and bullets with higher BCs.
Also are you taking into account barrel temp and rounds "cooking" in your AR chamber? It seems you Shoot a high round count for load workup. I'm guessing by the time you shoot your last load, the barrel and chamber temp is nowhere near from your first group. It could give you erroneous data.
I apologize if this was already mentioned. Like I said I don't really follow this thread or the forum in general on a regular basis.
In the past, I found accuracy increases with the hotter 5.56 barrel. However lately, it's been more random, and I'm sending in my scope for Vortex to look at. First I have to find the original box.
My friend, Larry uses a meat thermometer to measure the temp and has been doing testing to see at what temperature each rifle shoots the best groups. Another variable to consider. I played around with a small air pump through the barrel between groups but didn't work well. Need something with a higher velocity like a Chamber Chiller. https://www.chamberchiller.com/
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:facepalm:
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I will say that if shooting 100y, you will see that the load with the best SD doesn't always match the load with the best group. I have seen this many times. 100y is just too short for SD to make a huge difference IME. It is something to look at but don't put too much weight on it for 100y. If you do also shoot long range then I can see looking for better SD, ES and bullets with higher BCs.
Also are you taking into account barrel temp and rounds "cooking" in your AR chamber? It seems you Shoot a high round count for load workup. I'm guessing by the time you shoot your last load, the barrel and chamber temp is nowhere near from your first group. It could give you erroneous data.
I apologize if this was already mentioned. Like I said I don't really follow this thread or the forum in general on a regular basis.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The professional testers wait 20 minutes between shots on average when testing a rifle utilizing a real rifle cartridge (not a .22LR). Less if it is a cold day. But especially on warmer days, I have read that 20 minutes between shots is the norm.
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You should consider getting a strain gauge and a benchrest/rail rifle if you are pursuing whatever you are pursuing. It will cut down on some questionable variables.
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Had to look it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkthsIs71OA
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It was a wet, misty day at the range. The forecaster said there was a 20% chance of rain today and 60% chance tomorrow. Perhaps they are mixed up because the weather was a shithole. Reminds me of the only weather joke I know. What does it mean when they say 50% chance of rain? It means they asked all of the forecasters in the city if it will rain and half said it would. Badda-bing! What’s weird is the radar shows the high clouds heading east and the rain clouds heading west. Enough about the weather. No chrono today because it was left on, the battery died, and I forgot to include the spares in the kit. It would have been nice to verify the SD for the Superformance and H4198. I need to get in the habit of disconnecting the battery when I put it away.
6.5 Creedmoor: Continuation from the previous load test. Started with 42gr Superformance with the Nosler 140gr RDF that worked well last time. I shot 10 before and 10 after the load test. The first group was tighter but I was adjusting the scope, so not really comparable. The group below is the second group and looks sexier. The targets are a card stock but still got a bit wrinkled in the mist.
(https://i.imgur.com/UHvjp24.jpg)
I was chasing the target with my scope but managed one good group (39.2gr) with the 38.6 to 39.4 gr IMR4350 and Nosler 140gr RDF (5*10). The first two groups had 2 out of 10 “flyers” to the upper right by about 2”. The third group was weird with 2 about 1.25” to the left so I adjusted 5 clicks to the right, and the next two shots went 1.5” to the right. I shoulda left it alone. I split the difference and ended up in the middle. I checked the scope’s manual which said ¼” for each click. Maybe not so. The fourth group worked great. The break was called halfway through the fifth group which was going great. At the beginning of the next round, 4 of the 5 shots went just outside the target circle, of course. Despite the screw ups, I was pleased with the results but worth another try, preferably not in the wind and rain and with the chrono. The 39.2gr is on the left and 39.4gr on the right.
(https://i.imgur.com/nTSXGfB.jpg)
AK: Tried out the new bottle of H4198 I bought for the MN but turns out also works with the AK, AR, and 300BLK. I started with comparing the Hornady V-max .310” with the Nosler 123gr .310” bullet with 21.0gr Reloader 7. Both bullets are FB tipped and similar styles. The Nosler has a slightly bigger ballistic coefficient of 0.304 compared to the Hornady’s 0.295. I was having trouble keeping track of the hits because I didn’t have more targets, so I haven’t decided which is better.
Another factor I was testing is the condition of the ejected brass. As you may recall from previous episodes, I removed part of the dust cover to keep the case from colliding and denting. However, it was hitting the steel charging handle causing gouges in half of the cases. I added a short rubber hose and dremeled the sharp edges which reduces the gouges significantly. I’ll try smoothing the edges more. This was the fifth time I shot these cases and the AK is hard on the brass so decided it's time to switch to newer cases.
I think the H4198 works well with this rifle. The 25.5gr grouped best so will try 25.2 to 26.0 gr next time. I was having an issue with seating the bullets. I started noticing that the neck was shaving a thin strip of the copper off about a quarter of the bullets. I tried using the expander die but the powder was in the way and I wasn't interested in transferring the powder to expand the neck. I did expand the necks for the RL7 rounds before adding the powder and had no issues. I wonder if it's because the cases were getting worn out. I'll see if it continues with the newer cases next time. Update: I was seating bullets for the 300BLK and discovered the same phenomenon. Apparently, I have become lackadaisical with chamfering the neck which has been catching the edge of the boattail.
I have less than 300 of the Hornady bullets left and then will switch over to the Noslers. The 25.0gr is on the left and 25.5gr on the right.
(https://i.imgur.com/dbqKJiO.jpg)
The 1911-22 was working great today and killed the rubber gopher several times. Maybe I’ll get around to cleaning the pistol but seems to work better when it’s dirty and neglected. However, the Blazer LR ammo was a shithole today. About 1 out of 5 was a misfire. Each time, I had to pull the rimfire round out with my screwdriver and fire it again in the mag. One failed to fire twice so I put it in the dud can. It’s never been this bad before, so I wonder if the weather was having an effect on the .22 rounds.
I think I’m getting the hang of the ultrasonic cleaner. I’m trying the Hornady case solution but was causing oxidation on the brass. I figured out that I need to soak the cases afterwards in clean water instead of just rinsing to get all of the solution off. I’m trying to decide which works better, the case solution or Lemishine powder/dish soap. I tried vinegar and lemon juice before but decided against it.
(https://i.imgur.com/NkbrZvy.jpg)
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You're not going to get any good groups if you are chasing shots with your scope. I'd guess that your position is not consistent.
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Probably. Perhaps I'll try switching back to the Rock Jr stand and the rear bag.
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RK, It appears you are only shooting for groups and not score. If so you may want to dial your scope so your point of impact is off of your point of aim. You will have a more consistent POA if not shooting it out.
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Agreed. Like I said, I shoulda just left it alone.
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Finally broke my impact bullet puller.
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Finally broke my impact bullet puller.
I had my first Kinetic Bullet Puller for almost 35 years. How old is yours? It takes a lot of bullet pulling to break one. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Couldn't resist! :geekdanc: :geekdanc: :geekdanc:
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I had my first Kinetic Bullet Puller for almost 35 years. How old is yours? It takes a lot of bullet pulling to break one. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Couldn't resist! :geekdanc: :geekdanc: :geekdanc:
we've made an estimated 25-30,000 rounds in the last 4 years and haven't even come close to breaking our bullet puller
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we've made an estimated 25-30,000 rounds in the last 4 years and haven't even come close to breaking our bullet puller
Funny thing is my first one was cracked for over 5 years before it finally broke. My new one (~5 years old now) is still in great shape. Though I have to admit I don't use it very often. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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That's interesting.
When I first bought an impact bullet puller in 1999 I thought "What?! This PLASTIC thing? This will not last."
I still use it today, hasn't flinched or chipped. I don't know what plastic they use but it is strong
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Apparently I crimp hard. ;) :D
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Apparently I crimp hard. ;) :D
My wife tells me the same thing all the time!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I don’t know how to process that. :D
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It was a beautiful day at the range… no traffic, light wind, 82F, not too crowded. For some reason, I left the chrono at home but remembered to bring the water jug to weigh it down. Doh!
6.5 Creedmoor: Starting with the good, I created 20 rounds of IMR4350 at 39.2gr based on the previous results. The last five shots are below and probably the closest I’ve come to Mitch’s proverbial five rounds and one hole. I swear there’s five rounds in there, but that’s what happens when you get the shots too close together. ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/oOvNHyC.jpg)
300BLK: Almost the same load as I shot two weeks ago with two sets of loads this time. In the spreadsheet below, I included the previous results in grey. The loads were continuing the behavior of jumping to the upper left or one out of ten a flyer. Usually, the flyer was the first shot of the group. I was able to get two decent groups in each set. In the targets below, the 13.8gr and 14.2gr are from the first set, and the 14.0gr is from the second set. It looks like the flyer wanted to pull the group to the left (if that makes sense). I’ve run similar sets three times now and come up with three different results so my conclusion is that the rifle doesn’t like this bullet and powder range. I still have plenty of CFEBLK left so will try the 16.5-17.4 gr range from my initial attempt. Otherwise, it’s ironic if CFEBLK doesn’t work well in my 300BLK.
I finally bought a new Rock River Arms two-stage trigger for the AR lower. Nothing fancy. The first stage is 2# and second is 4#. I might try the lighter trigger spring from my other set. I also switched over to the Rock Jr. shooting rest instead of the bag. Neither seemed to help me with the flyers.
(https://i.imgur.com/3ZDlZcw.png)
MN 91/30: I tried the last of the IMR4895 38.0gr with the Hornady 150gr SP and 38.2gr with the Hornady 174gr RN using the 25 OnTarget sheets. The first five of the SP shot well then went inexplicitly two inches high after that. I didn’t feel comfortable in the table I was at because I was having to balance my large mass on the back of the board which kept pivoting up. I shot the other half of the SP rounds at the metal target and saved the RN for another day.
I ordered on Ebay the thick rubber straps for the metal target. It was supposed to come with the mounting screws, so I wrote a negative review and asked for refund. I told the seller that if they mailed me the kit, I’m okay. Instead, the seller refunded me the $18 and Ebay won’t let me change my negative review. When I look on the seller’s profile, it says I’m the only one who has given a negative review since he began in 2003. Now I feel bad…
(https://i.imgur.com/CWhSClf.jpg?1)
The straps worked great and didn't have that side to side swing that Len hates so much. The 6.5 Creedmoor bullets make a deep impact like the .223 do. The .308 and .312 bullets make a large superficial splash.
I got my new bullet puller in the mail today. Amazon said it would be delivered on Sunday but didn't believe it. Sure enough, the label was marked USPS and Sunday Delivery. That's a first for me.
(https://i.imgur.com/PdpAQ3i.jpg)
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It was a grey day on this Super Bowl Sunday. It was mostly busy but no rain, just clouds and light wind. Got back home in time for the second quarter. It was an amazing victory for my high school classmate, Doug Peterson who was our senior quarterback. It was awesome how he went from Miami quarterback to high school coach to Super Bowl coach champion.
6.5 Creedmoor. I met a fellow Johnny’s Reloading Bench fan, and he’s waiting for his Compass 6.5 to arrive at the FFL. I’m still waiting for my $75 rebate to arrive. We compared notes. The H4350 remains elusive on this island, but WGS has RL17 for $40 a bottle. Also, Roy’s Fishing has good prices on primers, better than SEC. I wasn’t impressed the last time I visited so time for a revisit. I visited Young Guns the other day, and they have decent powder prices but their primers are about $50 a brick.
Today was a similar repeat of the previous load test with the last of IMR4350 38.7 to 39.5 gr and 140gr Nosler RDF. I loaded 49 rounds because I ran out of powder for the last one. The velocity SD were higher today at about 20fps compared to 10fps last time, and the velocities were about 75fps less than the Nosler (and Hornady) data. Overall, the results were good but not excellent. The first load grouped with a 1.350 moa and a decent 12fps SD. The next three loads were flying to the upper right. There was a break between the 39.1 and 39.3 gr and a break half way through the 39.5gr. I didn’t want to repeat last time where the second set of the load opened up, so I shot at a different target at the beginning of the next round and used the OnTarget software to combine the group. It ended up having the tightest group (with one flyer) but the SD was a high 21fps. I know that the SD doesn’t make that much difference at 100 yards, but I would like to think I could shoot further with it.
Looking at the data from the three load tests with IMR4350, it appears there are nodes at 38.7, 39.2, and 40.5 gr, but I’m mostly pulling this out of my butt. When I get a new bottle, I’ll try out the 40 to 41 gr range or maybe I’ll do an actual full work up from 38.3 to 41.3 gr at 3 shots each. I know you’re asking why I didn’t try that to begin with but it’s the journey I’m after, not the ending. Plus that’s a lot of different charges to load and I get easily confused in my old age.
I got a new bottle of Superformance. The first bottle I bought at HFR. There were 9 bottles for $23 each but wasn’t sure if they worked in my rifle so only bought one. When I texted Rocky if they were still available, he said no. Missed opportunity…
(https://i.imgur.com/lf6aJnB.jpg)
1911-22: While waiting for the round to end so I could move the target from 100 to 50 yards for the AK, I shot the pistol at the orange gopher. I finally cleaned the pistol yesterday but was still functioning like crap. Tom suggested that I need a faster round to work the action. The Blazer load data says 1235fps muzzle and 1060fps pistol which is what I’ve been getting. I bought the brick last year at the Gun Show and will look for something with more oomf at the next event.
We also decided that the firing pin spring is worn out which is causing light strikes on the rimfire ammo and subsequent misfires. Unfortunately, the manufacturer appears to be out, so I’ll call them tomorrow to see if I have options. https://www.chiappafirearms.com/parts_air.php?id=1&idprod=35&id_fam=9
AK VEPR: I started out with the 123gr Xtreme .312” bullets that I haven’t had much success with in the MN and 300BLK (resized). These were all over the target except for a curious four shot group. Why these sorta grouped and the others didn’t is a mystery. The velocities matched the Vmax.
Relatively good results with the H4198 25.2 to 26.0 gr and Hornady Vmax 123gr. The groups were mostly the same with velocity SD in the teens. I believe the 25.6gr grouped best. I was gonna shoot the last two at a different target like last time but decided to stay on one target. The velocities were also about 75fps less than the Hornady data so perhaps it was just my chrono today. The two holes in the upper left are stray Xtreme rounds.
(https://i.imgur.com/kGzIAie.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CwcuOGV.jpg)
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At Roy’s Fishing in Aiea, $28 for #250 and $24 for #41!!!
Don’t be too greedy. Save some for others.
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Did Roy's have pistol primers?
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Yes, Federal and CCI. They said Roy is at the Reno show ordering powder and should be in a month or two. Will be interesting to see what he gets.
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Six cracked necks from last Sunday’s range visit. Two are Winchester (plus one from previous visit) and four are Hornady. I also have seven almost cracked (2 Winchester and 5 Hornady) that didn't pass the scratch test on the inside of the neck. This was the fifth firing. The obvious solution is annealing. Perhaps it's time to purchase a blow torch. There's also the option of buying fat-neck cases for turning, not that I have a turning apparatus.
https://www.ecwid.com/store/petersoncartridge/6-5-Creedmoor-Fat-Neck%E2%84%A2-Cartridge-Box-of-50-p83317513
Is it possible the rifle breech is causing the necks to over stretch?
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It was a peaceful day at the range. Almost 80F with a light wind chill of less than 70F. I felt a chill for a brief moment, but then it passed. I was thinking of going on Sunday but saw that it was gonna rain so decided to meet Shaun at the range with his new T/C 6.5 Creedmoor that just arrived. That reminds me. I need to call them to find out where my $75 rebate is.
I’ve been working with annealing the brass. After the previous range trip with the 6.5 Creedmoor, about 15% of the cases had cracked necks. I used a blow torch and a socket screwdriver on the remaining cases. It was exciting, but I could see how it could get old after doing it week after week. I only plan to anneal every fourth firing. I ordered new large primer cases with fat-necks from Peterson Cartridges. I also annealed the 300BLK cases and dropped each in water to keep the primer ends intact. By the time all of this came about, I had already inserted primers into the .223 cases, so annealing would be problematic. I decided to shoot them anyways despite the high velocity SD I’ve been getting. I figured I could at least figure out my next move regardless.
AR: I reinstalled the replacement scope that Vortex sent me. They said I might have over torqued the rings because I used the removable threadlocking compound that was included in the Wheeler scope mounting kit. They said the “lubrication” can increase the torque by 50%. This was mentioned in the Wheeler instructions but was within the recommended tolerances. I made sure to torque to the minimum 15# suggested by Vortex with no Loctite or anything. The H335 25.8gr performed well (except for the high SD as expected with the old brass). I also made 22.0gr CFE223 out of the left over powder based on an old note I found that said they worked well. Obviously I lied because they were crap.
I’m not sure why I created 20.5 to 22.5 gr TAC with the new 70gr Nosler RDF bullets when the Nosler load data says 22.5 to 24.5 gr with 22.5gr being the most accurate. In the first set of 50, the 22.5gr were the most accurate with the lowest SD, and 21.5gr performed well in the second set of 50 so not consistent results. What’s weird is that the velocities are about 170fps MORE than the published data (which is rarely the case). Next load will be 22.2 to 23.0 gr TAC. I should have enough powder to make 120 more rounds, this time with new (once fired) LC brass. I dumped the old cases into the brass bucket.
(https://i.imgur.com/Vb66ndi.jpg)
6.5 CM: It was an informative day with the Creedmoor but not a great day with accuracy. Most loads had the first shot about 2" off and the next three grouping together. There also seemed to be an inverse relationship between accuracy and velocity SD. I played with the seating depth and determined that 2.83” is best. The Nosler load data suggests 2.805”, and I’ve been told that the head space is up to 2.94” but the accuracy is crap towards that length. I don't have a bullet comparator so I had to guess and take the average. I also confirmed that the 42.0gr Superformance groups the best. However, the new Peterson cases that are arriving soon have less capacity so will have to start over again with the powder. At least I have something to compare it to now (and a fresh bottle). The chrono didn’t fail on me this time. My fat fingers on the iPhone app is what failed me. My recollection was that the SD were crap for the three missing loads anyways.
AR2: I tried out my new AR upper with the free .223 Wylde 1:9 barrel I got from Bear Creek Arsenal for their Veteran’s Day promotion. I bought the upper receiver, handguard, and accoutrements from Dexter then spray painted. Everything seemed to work flawlessly, and I was able to consistently hit the metal target with the PMC ammo. The H335 25.8gr shot 200fps slower than the Varmint rifle. Not sure what I’ll end up doing with this upper. I mostly just wanted the experience of assembling an AR upper (and not blow my face off).
(https://i.imgur.com/1KRXSLn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OMtx2GE.jpg)
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It was a quiet and sunny day at the range. I suspect the morning rains scared off most because the tables were half full at noon. I was expecting it to be full of shooters after yesterday’s downpour.
6.5 Creedmoor: With so many cracked necks after my previous range visit, I bought 50 new cases from Peterson Cartridge with the fat-necks that are 0.02” thicker for turning based on the manufacturer’s recommendation. The annealing appears to work great with the remaining Winchester cases. I’ll see if there are any split necks from resizing. After my previous testing, I’m seating the bullets to 2.830” which works best with this rifle. Below is a nice little group using 42gr Superformance in the Winchester cases.
(https://i.imgur.com/dc0iYYX.jpg)
I didn’t have high expectations with the unfired Peterson cases and 41.6 to 42.4gr Superformance and Nosler 140gr RDF. This was a repeat of the previous test load when I had the cracked Hornady cases. I thought I cleaned out the preservative oil with the new brass, but the powder was sticking to the insides of several of the necks while charging. Newb mistake. Overall, the velocity SD were an improvement. With the Winchester, I got 16 and 27 fps compared to 30s and 40s previously. The new Peterson’s SD were under 22fps.
The loads were going well until the last two shots of the second group (41.8gr) going to the upper right. The first five shots grouped well to the left. I considered shooting the next five at a new target but decided to continue. The third group stayed to the upper right which threw me off a bit so I adjusted down. For the results, I averaged the two groups for comparison. The fourth load grouped well except for the one that went left, and the fifth group had the last two also going to the upper right but may have been rushed because the buzzer sounded and I didn’t want to shoot the last five at the beginning of the next round. The manufacturer said I will need to use less powder with these cases because there is less capacity but seems to be the same result as the Hornady and Winchester cases. I bought a bottle of IMR8208 XBR which Nosler says is most accurate with the 140gr bullet so will probably use that next.
(https://i.imgur.com/KMEjeno.jpg)
300BLK: Tried the upper range for the CFEBLK powder. I have to conclude that the powder is okay with my 300BLK but not excellent, which I find ironic. The W296/H110 and LilGun remain the best powders. I was dealing with huge POI shifts with this load test of 16.2 to 18.9 gr CFEBLK in ten loads at 0.3gr intervals. The 16.8gr on the left below grouped best after shifting to the upper left. I initially tried 19.1gr but couldn’t compress the load and seat the bullet consistently to the max 2.260”, so I skipped it and added an extra to the bottom. I found that I had to adjust the scope down 1 minute and right 1 minute for each 0.3gr increment. The velocity SD for the annealed brass were good but comparable to the velocity SD I got on January 15th with the unannealed brass. I’ve only had one split neck with the converted brass so far. Overall, the 300BLK is rather light on the cases and barely needs to be trimmed after resizing. I still have plenty of CFEBLK left in the bottle so not sure what I’ll do with it since my AK doesn’t’ seem to like it either. This was the last of the Winchester primers and will be switching over to the CCI #41 I got cheap from Roy's Fishing.
(https://i.imgur.com/zK3jMW8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KQ7QJjU.jpg)
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You shouldn't adjust POI until you settle on a load. POI shifts are due to barrel harmonics. As you start from lower charge and raise to higher charge the POI will move low to high/ left to right in a cyclic pattern.
What you should be looking for are consistent circular impacts at the apex of either node with the lowest standard deviation. Once you have that powder charge sorted, using that same powder charge, seat the bullets deeper in the case by .002" at a time and shoot for the tightest group.
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You shouldn't adjust POI until you settle on a load. POI shifts are due to barrel harmonics. As you start from lower charge and raise to higher charge the POI will move low to high/ left to right in a cyclic pattern.
What you should be looking for are consistent circular impacts at the apex of either node with the lowest standard deviation. Once you have that powder charge sorted, using that same powder charge, seat the bullets deeper in the case by .002" at a time and shoot for the tightest group.
:worship:
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:worship:
Agreed. The problem is that there was such a POI shift that they were going into the next target over and causing me mass confusion, mostly with the 300BLK. It also likes to chop its way through my wood frame. I coulda left it alone with the 6.5 because there was only that one major shift that occurred.
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:worship:
Agreed. The problem is that there was such a POI shift that they were going into the next target over and causing me mass confusion, mostly with the 300BLK. It also likes to chop its way through my wood frame. I coulda left it alone with the 6.5 because there was only that one major shift that occurred.
something else is going on with either your shooting or the platforms
I suggest IDing them before shooting for groups
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Agreed. Perhaps I need to shoot a bunch of the 42gr Superformance and see if I get consistency with the 6.5 before switching over to the 8208 XBR. I previously determined that 2.830" was the best OAL. I was expecting the 41.8 or 41.6 gr to shoot better because of the thicker cases but still seems to like the 42gr better.
The 300BLK was a gradual increase with each 0.3gr which happens often with that platform. It was pronounced because I was testing such a wide load range. It wasn't a problem because I was expecting it and didn't seem to impact accuracy.
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My first case head separations. Time to 86 all of the brass that was with the Winchester 6.5 ammo. This was the brass that I got the sub moa shots and decent velocity yesterday. The Hornady cases are fine with no cracked necks after FL resizing.
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My first case head separations. Time to 86 all of the brass that was with the Winchester 6.5 ammo. This was the brass that I got the sub moa shots and decent velocity yesterday. The Hornady cases are fine with no cracked necks after FL resizing.
Were those annealed?
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Yes, before this firing. I didn't quench them in water like I did with 300BLK. Should I have?
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Yes, before this firing. I didn't quench them in water like I did with 300BLK. Should I have?
How long are you holding the cases to the flame? Do you have Tempilac? I go 6 seconds at the end of the flame - on low
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How long are you holding the cases to the flame? Do you have Tempilac? I go 6 seconds at the end of the flame - on low
4 seconds.
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4 seconds.
just the necks? How many loadings on those cases? Winchester brass is on the thinner side, they won't last too many firings.
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Just the necks. I made sure the annealing discoloration only went 1/3 down the case from the neck. I can find plenty of documentation on effect that annealing has on preventing neck splits but not sure what effect it has on preventing head separation.
Six. That's my suspicion that the Winchester cases were thin. I think it was Dear Season XP. I'll dremel it and see what it looks like on the inside.
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The cracks happened where the body thickness narrows from the rim (where the stick is at).
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Looks like normal used up brass, and a good amount of firings off of Winchester brass. It is good accurate and cheap brass. Lapua cases are expensive, but last much much longer.
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Tried it again. This is fun doing invasive testing. The black line is where the separation occurred. The bottom case is Hornady with the split neck.
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Tried it again. This is fun doing invasive testing. The black line is where the separation occurred. The bottom case is Hornady with the split neck.
I don't have this particular cartridge, but generally speaking I have found Winchester brass to be good but it does not take to reloading as many times as Lapua or Prvi Partisan. I have not seen case head separation but lots of split necks and splits in the upper body but below the neck. Not in the general case head area.
Hornady for me in 30'06 has been a mixed bag. I have had cases that last only 2 or 3 reloads with split necks and just recently I have seen a couple of case head separation issues. While other cases have held up to 7 or 8+ reloads and still are going strong. All of my Hornady cases were purchased new at the same time.
Remington cases have also been a mixed bag. I stopped buying them and Winchester cases. Federal cases also have been a mixed bag for me in .223. Always split necks and lots of trimming as they expand a lot. Lake City brass in .223 seems to hold there shape a little longer with less trimming than the Federal but I tend to toss more of them for other issues. I decided a long time ago that .223 and 9mm brass are so cheap and easy to come by free that I toss them at any sign of an issue. I used to try and save every case I could.
I almost exclusively buy only Lapua and Prvi Partisan brass for all my rifles (except for .223) as they seem to last more reloadings than other brands. For pistol cartridges I go almost exclusively with Starline brass with the exception of 9mm. I just hate to pay the prices for Lapua cases. So I always wait for a sale and then buy even when I don't need them right away so I always have some. I will say though that 7.62x54R is seasonal. You have to either buy new when available or be willing to buy once fired when you can find them and take whatever brand you can find.
This is just my findings YMMV
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I don't have this particular cartridge, but generally speaking I have found Winchester brass to be good but it does not take to reloading as many times as Lapua or Prvi Partisan. I have not seen case head separation but lots of split necks and splits in the upper body but below the neck. Not in the general case head area.
Hornady for me in 30'06 has been a mixed bag. I have had cases that last only 2 or 3 reloads with split necks and just recently I have seen a couple of case head separation issues. While other cases have held up to 7 or 8+ reloads and still are going strong. All of my Hornady cases were purchased new at the same time.
Remington cases have also been a mixed bag. I stopped buying them and Winchester cases. Federal cases also have been a mixed bag for me in .223. Always split necks and lots of trimming as they expand a lot. Lake City brass in .223 seems to hold there shape a little longer with less trimming than the Federal but I tend to toss more of them for other issues. I decided a long time ago that .223 and 9mm brass are so cheap and easy to come by free that I toss them at any sign of an issue. I used to try and save every case I could.
I almost exclusively buy only Lapua and Prvi Partisan brass for all my rifles (except for .223) as they seem to last more reloadings than other brands. For pistol cartridges I go almost exclusively with Starline brass with the exception of 9mm. I just hate to pay the prices for Lapua cases. So I always wait for a sale and then buy even when I don't need them right away so I always have some. I will say though that 7.62x54R is seasonal. You have to either buy new when available or be willing to buy once fired when you can find them and take whatever brand you can find.
This is just my findings YMMV
+1 for Lapua cases. I've had cases in 6mmBR that were reloaded over 20X with pretty warm loads. The only reason they failed were because I got lazy a few times and did not anneal the necks and they started to split. .308 brass currently has 12 reloadings on them and are as good as new. (The load I shoot is hot. 155 grns @ ~2950FPS) I anneal every firing and size minimally to fit the chamber.
They cost $1+ a piece, but in the long run, with proper maintenance, they pay for themselves.
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I've had the same experience with PPU, Winchester, and Norma brass in my 7.62x54r. They've been reloaded 20+ times with periodic neck splits and never a case head separation. I've heard this is a testament to how versatile the MN is for reloading. In fact, the Norma is actually 53r and after so many reloads, it's finally stretched out to 54mm.
The .223 is so prevalent that it's easy to replace, not to mention 300BLK. The AK likes to chew on brass, so that's a different issue. There's something going on with the 6.5 Creedmoor that is stretching the cases. I've read that the max OAL is 2.94" (I'll test it soon) to the lands but my rifle is most accurate at 2.83". That's a huge jump. It's not a problem, just a characteristic of the platform.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KDrLsnt2MM
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I've had the same experience with PPU, Winchester, and Norma brass in my 7.62x54r. They've been reloaded 20+ times with periodic neck splits and never a case head separation. I've heard this is a testament to how versatile the MN is for reloading. In fact, the Norma is actually 53r and after so many reloads, it's finally stretched out to 54mm.
The .223 is so prevalent that it's easy to replace, not to mention 300BLK. The AK likes to chew on brass, so that's a different issue. There's something going on with the 6.5 Creedmoor that is stretching the cases. I've read that the max OAL is 2.94" (I'll test it soon) to the lands but my rifle is most accurate at 2.83". That's a huge jump. It's not a problem, just a characteristic of the platform.
How much are you bumping the shoulder? Your 6.5 is a semi auto correct? You should bump the shoulder only about .004" to maximize case life. If you size the case too much it'll be a loose fit in the chamber and you overwork the brass and it'll fail sooner. That brass should stay with that rifle for the life of that case. If you will use the cases for multiple rifles, then you should size it to SAAMI spec, however those cases, again, will not be long lived.
Notes on your vid. Factory chambering usually throat long for safety and liability reasons. They do not want people loading to the lands, because if one is not very careful, they can cause overpressure situations if they jam the lands. This can cause failures. Also, they cannot account for every manufacturer of every piece of ammunition and possible new longer projectiles that may jam into the lands, also causing failures. When he is talking about case variation from the factory, he is correct, in that cheaper brass will have a greater variation. Once the brass is fireformed to YOUR guns chamber, all that is moot. the brass is now fitted correctly to your own gun, and if you size it correctly, it should shoot fine. If your own cases are stretching too much then if may indicate a problem with your rifle. Might be unlocking too soon, with too much pressure still inside the chamber.. Might be a chamber cut wrong... who knows? need some diagnostics to figure out.
Only reliable way to know is to measure the max to the throat in your gun. If it is a factory barrel, it will be WAY longer than mag length. There is no way to know for sure what reamer was used, how many times it was used, how worn the reamer is.... variables are endless. Never depend on what you see or read for this type of dimension. You'll have to measure your own rifles chamber.
A note on your current OAL. You should find your powder charge first, then find the correct seating length (OAL) Start at max length that will fit in your magazine, then slowly seat the bullet deeper into the case until you find the best group. Seat depth finely controls barrel time. The best charge will get the bullet out of the barrel at close to it's calmest point of oscillation. Seat depth will fine tune that to the best point of oscillation.
In my own experience, jumping or jamming into the lands made very little difference in overall consistency. Some loads shot great jam into the lands, then if seated deeper and deeper (not talking below minimum published OAL of course) it eventually got to that same level of accurate consistency. As a matter of safety, I'd rather have the bullet jumping a little.
I have a 168 Berger hybrid load, in .308, that jumps .040" to the lands, and IF the shooter is up to it, will put 10 rounds into one ragged hole at 100 yards. I've shot a few cleans at 300 yards with this load, which is 15 rounds inside 3" @ 300 yards
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Bolt action. When I started with the rifle last month, I was surprised how little sizing was occurring at the time but can't find the notes I made so will measure it again after my next trip.
My established load is 42gr Superformance with the Nosler bullet. I seated the bullet by 0.03" and found 2.83" most accurate. I'll play around with it more next trip.
140RDF/2.854" 2.10"
140RDF/2.828" 1.09"
140RDF/2.798" 1.40"
140RDF/2.777" 1.84"
I confirmed that the max length in the magazine is 3.00" and the max OAL to the lands is 2.935". The recommended OAL from Nosler is 2.805".
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Bolt action. When I started with the rifle last month, I was surprised how little sizing was occurring at the time but can't find the notes I made so will measure it again after my next trip.
My established load is 42gr Superformance with the Nosler bullet. I seated the bullet by 0.03" and found 2.83" most accurate. I'll play around with it more next trip.
140RDF/2.854" 2.10"
140RDF/2.828" 1.09"
140RDF/2.798" 1.40"
140RDF/2.777" 1.84"
I confirmed that the max length in the magazine is 3.00" and the max OAL to the lands is 2.935". The recommended OAL from Nosler is 2.805".
For a bolt gun bump the shoulder of the case only ~.002". The Redding body die I use allows me to bump my cases reliable .0015" for a real nice fit. My target rifle has a tight match chamber though.
Seating depth- try doing finer adjustments. .030" is too course of an adjustment. Try your 2.830" and go out .002" .004" .006" and deeper .002" .004" .006" see if any of those change anything. shoot 3 shot groups, round robin at it's own target, don't adjust the scope. You'll notice the groups change.
Measure the depth changes at the ogive of the bullets, not the tip. the tip varies, you'll never get an accurate reading. The OAL to the tip is only good for a general course measure.
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Thanks. I'll get the comparator when I can afford it. I'm still tapped out from Christmas.
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something else is going on with either your shooting or the platforms
I suggest IDing them before shooting for groups
So I was cleaning the 6.5 rifle and thought to check the action screws. Sure enough, the rear screw was loose. Doh! The manual only says to tighten them until they are snug, so I tightened them to 40#. Ironically, the manual shows them tightening the screws with a Wheeler wrench.
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Here's a gun toting preacher from Arkansas...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_JNEdegF54
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It was another beautiful day in paradise at the range. I planned to go to the range on Thursday when it fit my schedule, but there was a nasty (North Koreanish) storm cloud that hung out menacingly to the south of the island so decided against visiting the range then. The forecasters said today the winds would pick up this afternoon so got there at mid-morning. As it turned out, it was dead calm with no rain in sight. With all the rain we’ve been having, the range is starting to look like a family park.
6.5 Creedmoor: I was looking forward to trying the rifle again after discovering the action screws were loose last time. I happen to arrive at the range the same time as my friend, Shaun. He bought the same rifle a couple weeks after I did. (I finally received my rebate check from the manufacturer.) He was telling me about how his rails were loose at his last trip. After shooting 7 fouling rounds, I discovered that my rails were loose also. We didn’t have any Loctite and I told Shaun that I was gonna tighten the fuck out of it. (Very scientific.) I torqued it to 45#. Later I’ll take it apart because I bought better scope rings and plan to lap them with the Wheeler kit.
I made 5x7 rounds of Superformance 42.0gr with seating depth of 2.810” to 2.840” in 0.005” increments. Nosler recommends 2.805” OAL, and I previously found 2.830” more accurate. I don’t have a bullet comparator and this was the best I could do (or interested in doing). I have a bottle of IMR8208 XBR that is burning a hole in my reloading bench, so I need to start loading that. I have 353 of the 140gr RDF bullets remaining. After that, I ordered a 500 box of 140gr Hornady Match BTHP that has great promise. At 24 cents per bullet, these have been flying off the shelf.
What’s weird about the seating depth test is that the loads I shot on the right side were more accurate than the loads on the left. There was something neurological going on with my shooting. I know it’s cheating, but I excluded one flyer from the left side per load. It’s the best way I could try to make sense of what I had. In addition, most of the loads exhibited the annoying characteristic of having an inverse relationship between group size and velocity SD. The 2.815” grouped well but that may have been a fluke. I guess I’ll go with the original 2.830” based on the eyeball test and call it a day for now. I’ll try it again later with the I8208 XBR and then try the remainder of the Superformance with the new Hornady bullet.
(https://i.imgur.com/7Y24Aq2.jpg)
I had 15 cases left so I made 41.6, 41.8, and 42.2 gr of Superformance. The 41.6gr grouped best, but I feel like it’s not conclusive. Most of the 42.0gr rounds I made were spent on trying to figure out the problem with my scope rails or I shot them at the metal target.
MN 91/30: I started out with shooting the Xtreme 123gr with 48.5gr Reloader 15. These packed a wallop at 2915fps and kept blowing the sunshade off my chrono. I think the display had some water in it from a couple weeks ago, and these rounds were the Coup de Gras for the display. They were able to hit paper and that’s about it.
I next shot 25 rounds of IMR4895 38.2gr with the Hornady 174gr RN that worked well for me before. I shot them in 5 round groups and averaged the results. These shot so well, I listed the results in MOA instead of inches at 50 yards. Despite the SD, the velocities were spot on with the Hornady load data.
(https://i.imgur.com/bWXoVKc.jpg)
Next were 10 test rounds of H4198 29gr with the Hornady 150SP that was suggested to me. I had to raise the scope by 4 minutes. As the story goes, H4198 and Unique are not positional dependent powders in the cases. In fact, I recently found an Iraqveteran8888 video where he suggested 13 to 15 gr of Red Dot with the jacketed bullets. The H4198 were surprisingly accurate. There’s no published data that I could find so no idea how fast these are supposed to go. Probably not a good velocity for hunting…
(https://i.imgur.com/DJ5eiOU.jpg)
Next were 28.0 to 30.0 gr H4198 with the Hornady 150gr SP. The 28.0gr grouped well with excellent velocity SD. The 29.5 and 30.0 gr elevated off the target so these results are unreliable. I’ll try 27.6 to 28.4 gr next time but will need to obtain a new bottle.
(https://i.imgur.com/j8VxuZU.jpg)
1911-22: I replaced the firing pin spring and the recoil spring on the pistol. It shot a lot better than before and should’ve replaced the springs earlier.
(https://i.imgur.com/XA5xl2b.jpg)
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It was a windy, misty day at the range. I eventually had to take in the chrono before firing the AK because the sensors were starting to fill with water.
Between that and apparently getting shot with my .22 pistol (how in the world did I manage to do that?), I suspect it doesn’t have that much longer with us. Interestingly, the chrono results today were about 70fps faster than the published load data instead of the usual 100fps slower. Perhaps it was the overcast weather and positioning. No Creedmoor this time because I took apart the scope mount but didn’t like the new Nikon rings I bought so I’m waiting for the new ones to arrive. Update: I think the chrono was hit by fragments from the Extreme .312" bullets at the Mosin hot loads level. A piece also managed to hit the tripod.
AR-15: Retry of the Nosler RDF 70gr with the TAC. This time I went a little higher with 22.2 to 23.0 gr. I shot the first set on the left and the second on the right instead of sequentially left to right. This makes it harder to photograph the results but easier to compare. Overall, the results between the two sets were comparable and only had two flyers (on the left side) out of the 100 rounds. I had switched out the brass for once fired brass. I haven’t annealed the brass and this was the first firing in the rifle, so the results may not be what they could be. Perhaps I will anneal this brass after a wash in the ultrasonic bath. I seated the first 50 rounds to the full 2.260" which puts the case right up to the ogive of these bullets. I seated the second set of 50 about 0.002" closer to the ogive, which seemed to make a slight difference in accuracy. The 22.8gr grouped well with the best velocity SD. I also made 50 plinkers with the Hornady 55gr FMJ and 19.5gr ARcomp (which worked well for me in the past) and 24.8gr ARcomp at the max load/ full case capacity. The 19.5 were terrible but enough to hit the metal target and the 24.8 shot with 1” groups and over 3100fps. I have 190 of the 70gr RDF left. Nosler says that A2230 is most accurate, so I picked up a bottle and will try that next. What I don’t use in the AR, I can use in the AK.
(https://i.imgur.com/PcGJ6aj.jpg)
I also tried my blue steel upper and the old Barska scope. It's somewhat accurate but enough to hit the metal target. I bought flip down sights to replace the scope but didn't get around to try it because I need the spotting scope to see if it hit paper.
AK VEPR: No load testing, just two sets of established loads. Both shot well so no complaints. Although there's over 500fps published difference between the two loads, there surprisingly wasn't much difference in elevation shift between the two.
(https://i.imgur.com/XLtWh60.jpg)
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It was a day of surprises at the range. It was pretty much full all day long and relatively cool at 72F. I spent Saturday replacing the scope mounts on the 6.5, 300BLK, and AR-15.
6.5 Creedmoor: After discovering the loose ring mounts last time, I Loctite the mounting screws. Apparently, this is a common problem with the T/C rifles. I already knew this but didn’t understand. I’ve been looking for better rings and have been having difficulty making a choice. I decided to try the Nikon A-series but couldn’t get the scope to zero, so I gave up after 16 rounds of the Superformance with the new 140gr Hornady Match bullets. I shot them out of order to try and zero. The 41gr had an amazing 7fps SD, so maybe I’ll focus there next time.
300BLK: I made the load work up based on the Nosler data, but the results were not what I expected. I realized afterwards that the Nosler data is much different than the Hornady and Hodgdon data. For both powder sets, I decided to try and seat them to the recommended depth and ended up with an average 2.203" OAL. This probably caused the discrepancy between past results and today. I decided next time to go back to the full 2.260" OAL.
The LilGun was supersonic. I previously had good results with 10 and 10.5 gr but didn’t have the chrono then. This time, the results started out wide and narrowed to a decent group at 10.7gr with a decent fps SD.
The H110 was subsonic except for the strange result at the end. The 8.0gr had a decent group but didn’t lock the bolt back which is to be expected at 872fps. The 8.5 to 9.5 were too wild to measure and then tightened up with the 10.0gr. For some reason, the velocity jumped from 1073fps with the 9.5gr to 1500fps with the 10.0gr. What’s also weird is that the first five of the 10gr had a 5fps SD and the second five had 36fps SD. These shot in two separate groups which is why I'm able to measure each listed in the table below. Still trying to figure out what happened.
(https://i.imgur.com/YTTG7wd.jpg)
I also made plinking rounds with the left over CFEBLK powder at the max charge of 20.5gr and the surplus 147gr FMJ bullet. I tried to seat to the top of the cannelure, but the loads were slightly compressed which produced varying OAL. I sorted the rounds by length and got an average of 2.138" +/- 0.02". The accuracy was okay, so next time will try 20.0gr and try to get a more consistent OAL... or not.
1911-22: I hit the orange gopher several times at 50 yards. Although the SD is a bit high, the average is a consistent 1066fps. I can practically use it to verify the reliability of the chrono. Some of the rounds still misfired but not as bad as before. I was surprised when I spun the target over, which I’ve never been able to do before. I found out that the reason why is that the bullet lodged into the plastic instead of passing through like the others.
(https://i.imgur.com/QCSZG89.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rytiObU.jpg)
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Just get Geiselle mounts and dont worry
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Just get Geiselle mounts and dont worry
Except I'd have to sell a kidney... :(
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Except I'd have to sell a kidney... :(
You got two.... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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It was not a good day for hay fever at the range. I don’t suffer from these allergies but was feeling like I was on the farm. Not sure what the temperature was because the reading on the chrono app shows 48F which I don’t believe is correct. With the recent rain and sunnier weather, I've noticed more families hanging out at the "park" and enjoying the mowed lawns.
(https://i.imgur.com/pJQQphh.jpg)
6.5 Creedmoor: I replaced the rings with Vortex and got great results today. I started out with the 140gr Hornady Match and the Superformance that I got a low velocity SD last time with. I didn’t repeat the SD but accuracy was awesome. I paid 24 cents per bullet (plus free shipping) and can be had for as low as 22 cents. With the bottom group, the fifth hole was my zero shot with left over 42.5gr so didn’t count.
(https://i.imgur.com/bYDyYPO.jpg)
I next shot 10 groups of 5 rounds with 29.5 to 34.0 gr IMR 8208 XBR in 0.5gr increments. Nosler says this powder works best with the 140gr RDF. I appear to have hit four nodes if that’s possible, and the 30.0gr seemed to group best with the lowest velocity SD. Next time will probably be 29.5 to 31.5 gr because this range was more accurate than the higher charges. The top charge of 34gr had sticky bolt pressure signs. These were all seated to 2.830” OAL. On a side note, I hear that Roy's Fishing has H4350 at $31 per bottle. Too bad I already bought a bottle at WGS for $43.
(https://i.imgur.com/8I84uiS.jpg)
AR-15: I made fouler rounds of 19.5gr ARComp with 55gr FMJBT and 20.4gr with the new 62gr FMJBT that I bought from Everglades Ammo (Version 2). Both powder loads worked well for me in the past. The 55gr were okay with 3” groups (right), but the 62gr were the bomb-diggity with a 0.573 moa 5-round group. At that point, I coulda wiped my hands in the air and declared that I’m done for the day, but decided to carry on much to my detriment.
(https://i.imgur.com/s69IKy1.jpg)
I loaded 5 groups of 20 rounds with 21.5 to 23.5 gr A2230. Nosler says the powder works best with the 70gr RDF. Things were going well until the end of the second group when I got two flyers. Suddenly, the scope went crooked, and I reseated the scope in the rings. The next round caused the scope to go crooked again and I realized it was the cross hairs that went crooked until it’s now at 45degrees. This was a replacement scope that Vortex sent me over a month ago so back it goes. I'll save the load set for next time when I get the scope back. These were seated to 2.252" OAL. I have 110 of these bullets left.
(https://i.imgur.com/nkcm7SH.jpg)
See you at the Gun Show tomorrow. I'm volunteering so hopefully they won't be having me in the back licking envelopes or something.
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It was a gorgeous day at the range and produced a lot of great data. After so many days of rain, it felt like a summer day from my youth. The air always seems cleaner after a good rain. At some point, they’re gonna have to dump a bunch of aggregate rock in front of the silhouette parking to cover up the mud.
It was very busy at the range. I ended up at table 25 which is way too short for me but I made do. The chrono was giving me errors and misreadings from the rifles next to me. I wonder if this happens more at the far left end than say, table 39. Caldwell told me they’ll send me a replacement screen, hopefully soon.
6.5 Creedmoor: After resizing the cases, I noticed some "wrinkles" in the Peterson necks. I didn't feel anything with the scratch test, and I annealed the cases again. Afterwards, I had two of the old Hornady cases with cracked necks and took them out. Peterson now only sells their cases through Grafs which charges extra for shipping to Hawaii. I might try gowesttrading.com but they only sell in packs of 200.
Started with seating depth testing with the Hornady HP Match 140gr and Superformance 41.0gr. The 2.80” worked really well with a nice 0.607 moa group. I didn’t have the chrono set up until the last group so don’t have complete velocities to compare.
(https://i.imgur.com/Jk3ZJwa.jpg)
I next shot two sets (5x10) of 29.5 to 31.5 gr IMR 8208 XBR and 140gr Nosler RDF. The 30.0gr grouped best for both sets with low velocity SD. Next time will try 29.7 to 30.5 gr.
(https://i.imgur.com/NDQeIdY.jpg)
I bought the RCBS hand primer so for grins and giggles, I primed the spare Hornady cases I had and created test rounds of 39.5 to 41.5 gr H4350 and 140gr Hornady Match. I bought more H4350, IMR4350, and Varget at Roy’s Fishing for $31 each. I also bought IMR4064 at $28 for the Mosin. These are crazy mainland prices!
The break was called and didn’t want to wait until the next break to bring the target in to 50 yards, so I shot the rest at the metal target and recorded the velocities. The rounds seemed accurate, but the chrono was starting to freak out. Being selective with the data, the velocity SD were low with an amazing 0.6fps with the last group. The 40.5 gr went all ding-batty so not sure what was happening.
1911-22: I bought high velocity Aguila and Armscor ammo at the Gun Show from Kaleo. I was hoping the higher velocity would work the action better and not jam so much, but this was not to be. Both were slower than the standard high velocity Blazer ammo. I felt like the Armscor was more accurate than the Aguila. More testing to follow…
MN 91/30: I was having fun with pistol loads and jacketed bullets. I used the Hornady 150gr SP bullets because they’re the most accurate in the rifle and only cost 26cents each at Cabela’s. I started with 13.0 to 15.0 gr Unique. This powder is not positional dependent, so I didn’t include a filler. The 15.0gr shot a great 1.476 moa group with a low velocity SD. Next will try 14.7 to 15.5 gr.
(https://i.imgur.com/7U3vWQy.jpg)
Next was 13.0 to 15.0 gr 700x. I added a Dacron filler which again cause a comical scene of fluff shooting out of the barrel. I received several questions from passersby. After the first two groups, I thought the set was going to be a bust, then the 14.0gr had an excellent 1.508 moa group. The velocity SD were not as good as Unique. Next will try 13.7 to 14.5 gr.
(https://i.imgur.com/82pzc27.jpg)
AR-15v2: I used my homemade AR with the pulldown sights to try some of the Bushido .223 ammo I picked up at the Gun Show. The OAL averaged 2.213” with an ES of 0.018”. Devin said he seated to the top of the Hornady cannelure. However, I can’t see the cannelure on any of the rounds. The cases were trimmed but did not appear to be deburred. The brass are from 7 different manufacturers with Winchester primers. The average velocity was 2769fps. The SD was probably not a fair measurement in this rifle so will have to try with the varmint AR after I get the scope back from Vortex. I have to say that the rounds made a satisfying chunk sound compared to the PMC factory ammo. I was playing with the sights but overall, it seemed accurate.
(https://i.imgur.com/hV9XUja.jpg)
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1911-22: I bought high velocity Aguila and Armscor ammo at the Gun Show from Kaleo. I was hoping the higher velocity would work the action better and not jam so much, but this was not to be. Both were slower than the standard velocity Blazer ammo. I felt like the Armscor was more accurate than the Aguila. More testing to follow…
I don't want to knock a particular ammo here but I thought I would share an experience I had with Armscor .22 LR and my friend's 1911-22. You'll find it here:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=23522.msg210101#msg210101
The other comment I wanted to make is that Blazer .22 is high velocity not standard velocity. I think you meant it as you were using the Blazer as your standard to which you are comparing the other ammo to? I found the Armscor and Aguila high velocity to be only average performers in my guns. Maybe one or both will work well for you in yours.
Please be careful with the Armscor .22 LR in a semi auto as my experience shows it can be dangerous. I finally ended up using the rest of it in my revolver and bolt gun which is standard practice for me when I have a lot of crappy ammo to shoot up.
BTW, I am putting together some .22 LR ammo tests and I wonder if you would like to participate in it? All I am doing is using my most accurate rifle and shooting 10 rounds of fouling shots. Then 10 rounds thru the chrono for data only. I am using 10 shots for fps, ES, SD. Then shooting three, 5 shot target strings for accuracy at 50 yards. Maybe you would like to add to my rifle info and/or start with some pistol info at 25 yards? I will be attempting to do some pistol testing soon. I have not posted my results yet as I have not had much time at home lately. I would welcome the data if you would like to collaborate?
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Thanks for the information. I thought I read it on the Blazer box but don't have it anymore. I noticed the website does say high velocity and the chrono data confirms it. I've had the KABOOM happen many years ago but was more like a kaboom. I don't remember what the ammo was back then. I bought it at the Clark County Shooting Complex back in the day.
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I don't want to knock a particular ammo here but I thought I would share an experience I had with Armscor .22 LR and my friend's 1911-22. You'll find it here:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=23522.msg210101#msg210101
The other comment I wanted to make is that Blazer .22 is high velocity not standard velocity. I think you meant it as you were using the Blazer as your standard to which you are comparing the other ammo to? I found the Armscor and Aguila high velocity to be only average performers in my guns. Maybe one or both will work well for you in yours.
Please be careful with the Armscor .22 LR in a semi auto as my experience shows it can be dangerous. I finally ended up using the rest of it in my revolver and bolt gun which is standard practice for me when I have a lot of crappy ammo to shoot up.
BTW, I am putting together some .22 LR ammo tests and I wonder if you would like to participate in it? All I am doing is using my most accurate rifle and shooting 10 rounds of fouling shots. Then 10 rounds thru the chrono for data only. I am using 10 shots for fps, ES, SD. Then shooting three, 5 shot target strings for accuracy at 50 yards. Maybe you would like to add to my rifle info and/or start with some pistol info at 25 yards? I will be attempting to do some pistol testing soon. I have not posted my results yet as I have not had much time at home lately. I would welcome the data if you would like to collaborate?
Yes no Armscor 22 for me. Blazers shoot amazingly well for cheap bulk ammo, so does CCI SV. HV 22lr had more wind drift at 100y than does standard velocity with less drop. I'm looking forward to your 22lr testing Inspector. I have noticed SDs and ESs makes a big difference when shooting 22lr at 100y compared to 50y. Blazers and CCI SV have no chance against the good stuff at 100y IMO.
rklapp, I was the guy shooting with the Magnetospeed that you came and asked some questions about.
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Oh hey, good to have seen you out there. I think I was shooting your ammo right after that. Good stuff.
Funny thing is that I felt like the Armscor was shooting better than the Aguila. Maybe I'll try it again next time at 25 yards.
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Oh hey, good to have seen you out there. I think I was shooting your ammo right after that. Good stuff.
Funny thing is that I felt like the Armscor was shooting better than the Aguila. Maybe I'll try it again next time at 25 yards.
"bushido" is different from "bushido arms"
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"bushido" is different from "bushido arms"
Yes it is but I got love his business name though. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Ah, that explains it.
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It was the return of the trade winds today at the range. The guys next to me had a digital wind gauge that showed gusts of 18mph but felt more sometimes. The chrono with the water jug weighing it down worked spectacularly, but the standard deviations were atrocious. I could see the chrono jiggling in the wind, probably because of the sun shades. I mighta tried it without the shades but could never get around to it during the breaks. Tito said that I always have problems with the chrono which isn’t true. I’ve only had it fall over a few time (until I started using the water jug), replaced the LCD screen, replaced the data cable, and bent the tripod… but other than that, it’s worked flawlessly.
6.5 Creedmoor: Tried the Hornady Match 140gr with 39.5 to 41.5 gr H4350 seated to 2.80". The 40.0 and 41.0 gr had good groups, and the 41.5gr had the lowest velocity SD so will focus on that range.
(https://i.imgur.com/TiuAxsi.jpg)
Continuation of the Nosler 140gr RDF with 29.7 to 30.5 gr IMR8208 XBR. The lowest charge of 29.7gr had the best groups, and the 29.9 had the lowest velocity SD. I think I'm about ready to move on from this bullet/powder. I actually didn't shoot the set in the order listed in the table below. I accidently started shooting both groups together but I discovered when separated into two sets, the second set had tighter groups and better SD. Still scratching my head on that one.
(https://i.imgur.com/YK3FKX8.png)
AR-15: Retry of Nosler 70gr RDF with 21.5 to 23.5 gr A2230. It was doing that thing where the first round went an inch or two off and the rest grouped, if at all. I got the scope back from Vortex repair after the reticle got loose. The last time I tried this set, the first two groups were decent with flyers before I had to stop. This time, the groups were about twice the size and was discouraged, but the third group tightened up. I also didn't get the same results with the ARcomp 20.4gr that I had last time, and the Bushida Arms rounds didn't even try to group. I guess I'll move it over to the 300BLK and see what it does there.
(https://i.imgur.com/qMDzaWN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6gSZ5D6.jpg)
I’ll have to fill in more detail tomorrow. Going to bed and we're doing the annual Pearl Harbor Bike Path cleanup in the morning.
One last thing. A couple showed up with a target frame using Hanabusa’s campaign sign for the backstop. I told them I doubt she would appreciate the use of her sign. We laughed…
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It was a windy and quiet day at the range. The wind went from dead calm to about 20mph and dead again, so I decided to remove the chrono's sun shades to keep it from shaking in the wind. I don’t believe it effected the performance of the chrono under the mostly cloudy conditions.
6.5 Creedmoor: I made 29 rounds from the remainder of the Superformance powder in the bottle with 42gr at 2.83” OAL and Nosler RDF 140gr. The accuracy was okay at 1.1 MOA.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZrWWGBA.jpg)
From my previous testing, I chose 29.8gr of IMR8208 XBR to test the seating depth. The 2.85” seemed to work best with a low velocity SD. I’ll make more rounds with the remainder of the powder and then I’ll be done with this powder/bullet combo because I'm not getting the accuracy I'd like for the sacrifice in velocity.
Overall, I decided that the Hornady brass works better than the Peterson brass. Despite annealing, I lost 7 pieces of the Peterson after processing, but none of the Hornady had neck cracks. Plus the Hornady seems more accurate. I ordered the large primer Starline brass which I’ll start to use for my next batch using H4350 and the Hornady Match 140gr. The group below is the 2.81” but I’m showing it because it’s more photogenic (but high velocity SD).
(https://i.imgur.com/m04mcgZ.jpg)
300BLK: I moved the Vortex scope over from the AR-15. With the Nosler 190gr HP, I made 50 rounds of H110 14.1 to 15.3 gr and 50 rounds of LilGun 13.4 to 14.6 gr. I based the previous load test last month on the Nosler data for the 220gr HP, but the results were too low. This time, I based the test loads on the Hodgdon load data and looks to be too high. The LilGun seemed to group better but both had big extreme spreads. I have 99+ of these 190gr bullets then will be switching over to the 175gr RDF bullets. The next test loads for the 190gr will probably be based on the Hornady data which is between the Nosler and Hodgdon data.
I shot the rest of the CFEBLK 20.5gr with the surplus bullets and the accuracy was still crap like last time. This was the last of the CFEBLK in the bottle. I also made H110 17.2gr and the surplus bullets with good results. In addition, I tried out the Nosler RDF 175gr with the H110 13.0gr based on the Hornady data. I couldn’t tell where they landed on the used target and the velocity SD was crap so I think I need to go higher than the 1501fps I got when I switch over to the newer bullet. The Hodgdon load data goes from 14.5 to 16.0 gr for a 175gr bullet.
1911-22: In comparison to the Aguilar and the Armscor, the Blazer shot really well today, and the Armscor shot better than the Aguilar. The gun was really, really dirty and while cleaning, I discovered that the extractor spring is missing. Of course, the website says they are out of stock so need to figure out where to find a replacement. Another issue I have is that I shot the support to the gopher again, so it may be time to finally bury the varmint. It has about 100 holes in it from several years of shooting at it with the pistol.
(https://i.imgur.com/PYUhzmn.jpg)
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31275783_2065098600414238_1580711259584593920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=f4b130c5da7e4eeada4b1ea08405d8e3&oe=5B9577C0)
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It was a fun day at the range. High clouds with a light wind. I was hanging out with the Black Powder gang for a bit and didn’t have to wait too long for a bench. I did have to wait for a parking space. Must be people parking for the other ranges. When I left, I spotted a couple leaving their car and heading to Hanauma Bay. It makes me nervous when I see tourists walking along the narrow road, so I gave them a ride. When we got there, the lot was open again but dropped them off anyways. When I left, the parking lot was full again. Must be a build up of tourists from all of the rain we had this past week. Haven't been in the water for awhile but can't imagine visibility has been good.
6.5 Creedmoor: I made 30 rounds from the remainder of the bottle with IMR8208 XBR 29.8gr at 2.85” OAL. The best 5 shot group was 0.811 MOA and a decent 18fps SD. I used the remainder of the Peterson brass that I bumped the shoulder by 0.002” using the Hornady headspace comparator. Like I said before, the powder/bullet was okay but not worth the sacrifice in velocity. The problem with some of the lanes is that the grass is too high and covers the bottom of the target frame. This caused me to make adjustments as to which target I was shooting at.
(https://i.imgur.com/q9q0KpO.jpg)
Next made 2 sets of 5 test loads of 39.8 to 41.0 gr H4350 with the 140gr Hornady Match. Of the two duplicate sets, the 40.7gr had the relatively best groups and lowest velocity SD. This was the first firing of the Starline LP brass at 2.80” OAL that worked well before with the Hornady Match bullets. The next test loads will be 40.3 to 41.1 gr.
(https://i.imgur.com/hG5j3Kn.jpg)
I tried the 1911-22 with the Armscor ammo which worked okay but the chrono started to go ape shit bananas with random errors and results half of what they should be. I think it just didn’t like the position of the sun at the time.
91/30 MN: Continuation of the pistol loads from last time. I started with the last of the Reloader 15 at 48.2gr. I didn’t want to change the zero on the scope so just eyeballed where they landed. I also shot the last of the IMR4895 at 44.9gr which also worked well but left some for later.
Made 25 rounds of Unique 14.7 to 15.5 gr with the 150gr Hornady SP. I included a small bit of Dacron in both pistol loads. The 15.5gr grouped best... I mean really, really well. I had to use a different target because of the grass, and they landed near the previous heavier rounds. I’m 99% sure that the five landed together. The next test loads will be 15.2 to 16.0 gr.
(https://i.imgur.com/fpX6cEa.jpg)
Next made 25 rounds of 700x 13.7 to 14.5 gr with the same bullet. The 13.9gr grouped best but not quite as well as last time at 14.0gr. I’ll stick with the 14.0 and make a whole set.
(https://i.imgur.com/x8g00hb.jpg)
I think I figured out why the metal target frame fell over. It might be because I cracked the 3/8” AR500 with the RL15 rounds. Why it didn't sheer off the bolt head is a mystery. Add another washer and good as new.
(https://i.imgur.com/oX3Xwe4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QzkBQg4.jpg)
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It was a windy Mother’s Day at the range. My wife wondered if there will be less people at the range because of Mother’s Day, and I replied that most mothers would cherish a day by themselves.
Good results despite the snafu. I was so pleased with the Varget results that I tried to push my .30 squeegee through the .26 barrel. Tito helped me tap the part out. I don’t want to think what that could possibly have done to my barrel. Won’t be doing that again. There was also a shouting match between an RO and a shooter which was weird. Cooler heads prevailed…
6.5 Creedmoor: Tried out the Varget 32.0 to 36.5 gr with the 140gr Hornady Match and the old Hornady brass at 2.80” OAL. I previously tried RL15 with the ELD-M with poor results so had little expectations. I picked up the bottle of Varget at Roy’s Fishing because it was on sale and got amazing results today. All six loads were under 1 MOA. Since it was so windy, I tried to use the chrono without the sunshades to avoid shaking but the reading was going ape shit bananas so was useless. I did see a 2300fps reading at one point which matches somewhat with the published data. I’m not sure what I’ll try next with the powder. Update, three cracked necks and still good results. All three were small and at the base of the necks.
(https://i.imgur.com/NZEXkEx.jpg)
I replaced the sunshades which worked mostly well until the last load of H4350. By that time, the wind was really picking up enough to blow the front sunshade off. Next was the continuation of the H4350 40.3 to 41.1 gr with the 140gr Hornady Match and the new Starline brass at 2.80” OAL. The 40.9gr grouped best but had the worst velocity SD. With the gusty wind, the chrono was not a reliable measure. I will either rerun the H4350 40.4 to 41.2 gr or I’ll test the OAL with the 40.9gr. To coin a phrase... I don’t know, you tell me, we’ll see…
(https://i.imgur.com/kBWpBZ0.jpg)
MN 91/30: I had so much fun last time with the pistol loads that I decided to continue. I created 25 rounds of the 700x 14.0gr with the 150gr Hornady SP. I forgot to move the frame to 50 yards so shot 15 at the 100 yards (about 3” group) and the metal target. The velocity was about 150fps faster than the last time I used the chrono with it. I had a nice group of five with one outlier for a 1.5” group at 50 yards.
(https://i.imgur.com/1coVIIA.jpg)
Next shot the Unique 15.2 to 16.0 gr with the 150gr Hornady SP. The 15.2gr grouped really well but so did the 15.5gr last time. At these low velocities, the wind could have played a factor. For both loads, I used a small amount of Dacron in each.
(https://i.imgur.com/eWbFkIg.jpg)
1911-22: I managed to replace the missing extractor spring which was very stiff, but the action works a lot better now. The extractor had trouble grabbing the ammo rim unless it had a full head start. I imagine it will improve over time (unless it goes missing again).
(https://i.imgur.com/6RJqu79.jpg)
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It was a sporadically breezy day at the range so no chrono. It’s too bad because I got one of my favorite tables at #39.
6.5 Creedmoor: Today was seating depth testing for both Varget and H4350 along with the 140gr Hornady Match. The bullet comparator makes this easy and accurate. I had such great results with the Varget last time that I decided to try testing with the lowest charge of 32.0gr and Hornady brass (previously at 2.80” OAL) that had the smallest group. I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but that’s what experimenting is all about. ;D Surprisingly, the 2.84” OAL had the best group. What I do next depends on how well the aged Hornady brass survives the resizing. After the ultrasonic cleaning and before resizing, I’ll anneal all of the Hornady and Starline brass.
(https://i.imgur.com/1EYhN93.jpg)
Mixed results with the seating depth testing on the H4350 at 40.9gr and 2.78” to 2.86”. The maximum length in the rifle is 2.93”, but the recommended length is as low as 2.80”. Unfortunately, the two smallest groups were at the shortest and longest lengths. My conclusion is that this is not the best range for the bullet/powder combo. The Hornady manual puts the max charge at 41.5gr. JRB indicated that this is where the accuracy starts to improve and could conceivably go up to 42.0gr without pressure signs and sufficient case capacity. I still have a bottle of H4350 left so will try 41.2 to 42.0 gr. Yes, I’ll be careful.
(https://i.imgur.com/fl6XT40.jpg)
AR-15: Continuation (and last) of the 70gr Nosler RDF with the 22.2 to 23.0 gr A2230. Overall, I don’t find this to be a particularly accurate bullet/powder combo. My previous test loads showed best results between 22.5 and 23.0 gr and this time, the 22.8gr grouped best, so it was consistent but not impressive. I think I’ll go back to the 62gr Nosler that I’ve had great success with in the past.
(https://i.imgur.com/RPK5oZs.jpg)
Ever since I got the Vortex scope back from the manufacturer, I’ve been having consistency issues but not sure if it’s the scope or something else yet. I tried the 62gr Everglades FMJ again with the ARcomp 20.4gr and got both good and bad groups. More experimentation is needed. In the table below, the dark grey is the first set and the light grey is the second set. I try to run a bore squeegee through between sets and give it chance to cool down while I play with my 1911-22.
(https://i.imgur.com/06nUsid.jpg)
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I can’t remenber my name half the time. So I can’t remember if you have tried using Varget with the heavier .223/5.56 rounds such as the 62gr Nosler or the 70gr Nosler? I found for my rifle, and generally speaking, Varget does very well with 62gr+ heads for this cartridge.
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I can’t remenber my name half the time. So I can’t remember if you have tried using Varget with the heavier .223/5.56 rounds such as the 62gr Nosler or the 70gr Nosler? I found for my rifle, and generally speaking, Varget does very well with 62gr+ heads for this cartridge.
Thanks Joe. ;)
That was my plan for the 62gr. I've been using it in 6.5 with great results. Time to pick up another bottle at Roys. I picked up two boxes of CCI 41 yesterday for $24 each. For some reason, the Federal primers are $38 per box. Roy said he's expecting a crate of powder to arrive, but the shipment was lost in the mainland somewhere. Maybe pirates...
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It was a Russian day at the range. I haven’t shot my AK VEPR in some time and decided to try the IMR4064 powder on the Mosin which acted like Reloader 15. I met someone who has a heavily modified Mosin with a mounted scope, chopped barrel, and a threaded muzzle break. Unfortunately, the front scope glass developed hairline cracks, probably due to muzzle flash with the surplus ammo. Makes me appreciate the long barrel with the 91/30. Both rifles shot at 50 yards (because my old eyes have trouble seeing the little circles with the low power scopes).
MN 91/30: Made two sets of 25 rounds with 36.0 to 40.0 gr IMR4064. The first set is with the Hornady 150gr SP and the second is Hornady 174 gr RN. Usually, the SP is more accurate but this time, the RN performed better. For both, the 38.0gr shot best for both bullets which closely resembles the previous results with Reloader 15, IMR4895, and Varget. For each load, I shot four at the target and the fifth at the 100 yard steel target. I’m not sure what happened to the fourth shot of the 38.0gr but decided to exclude it.
(https://i.imgur.com/fF2wbAq.png)
For the RN bullet, it was unusual that the heavier bullet was more accurate at the lower loads compared to past results. The two unaccounted hits were from my kick ass plinking rounds I shot previously.
(https://i.imgur.com/T1J146J.png)
AK VEPR: The AK was the traditional dumpster fire for accuracy. I made two sets of 25.0 to 27.0 gr Reloader 7 with the 123gr Nosler FB .310”. The 26.0gr was more accurate in the first set, and the 27.0gr for the second set. I got the load data from Nosler which indicates they are compressed loads. None of the rounds sound crunchy while seating the bullet. I have enough RL7 for 85 more rounds or I might use the lighter load I developed at 21gn with the Hornady FB. An interesting property of the higher loads is that the brass was ejecting straight up and hitting the shelter.
(https://i.imgur.com/VeaxwaB.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TzJbbxA.png)
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I took Dave's advice and uploaded my posts starting January 22, 2017 to a blog website. I appreciate everyone's support (and the criticism too).
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com
I'm able to categorize my posts to count how many references there are for each caliber.
AR-15: 28
300BLK: 24
AK-47: 22
MN 91/30: 21
6.5 CM: 18
1911-22: 9
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I took Dave's advice and uploaded my posts starting January 22, 2017 to a blog website. I appreciate everyone's support (and the criticism too).
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com
I'm able to categorize my posts to count how many references there are for each caliber.
AR-15: 28
300BLK: 24
AK-47: 22
MN 91/30: 21
6.5 CM: 18
1911-22: 9
Hey RK,
A few comments:
At the top it says something like “Reloading for Different Rifle Calibers”. Yet you list a 1911-22 as well. Not really important, just thought I would point it out.
When I click on the 1911-22 category it is hard to find the 1911-22 results because I had to dig through all the other calibers.
Overall it looks good. Congratulations!!!
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Fixed. I haven't figured out yet how to change that text color so it's difficult to see. I guess they assume that I'll pick a bland Hawaii photo. ;)
Maybe I'll remove the 1911-22 category.
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Fixed. I haven't figured out yet how to change that text color so it's difficult to see. I guess they assume that I'll pick a bland Hawaii photo. ;)
Maybe I'll remove the 1911-22 category.
Looks great! See if you can change that color. 👍
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Today's happenings...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/06/08/june-7-2018/
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Happy Father’s Day, everyone. Today’s happenings...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/06/18/june-17-2018/
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Happy Father’s Day, everyone. Today’s happenings...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/06/18/june-17-2018/
Glad you were not hurt.
Check your chamber by trying to drop a live round into the chamber. If it drops all the way in without your having to push it in even a little, then no problem. If a round won’t drop in completely without help then there is some lead build up in the chamber. A good bronze brush should get it all out.
LMK if you find any lead build up.
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I think there is lead build up. I noticed they weren’t going in easily so cleaned it thoroughly after the last two trips with Ed’s Red solvent and wire brush. Need to go to town on it this time, perhaps with more acetone...
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I think there is lead build up. I noticed they weren’t going in easily so cleaned it thoroughly after the last two trips with Ed’s Red solvent and wire brush. Need to go to town on it this time, perhaps with more acetone...
My friend's 1911-22 had a ring of lead in the chamber that took him an hour or so to get all of it out. He didn't realize it was still in the chamber until I convinced him to try the round drop in test. He kept scrubbing and testing until it finally chambered correctly. I hope it comes out quicker and easier for you than it did for him.
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I believe it. Heading to Hilo today so will tackle it tonight.
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I believe it. Heading to Hilo today so will tackle it tonight.
Let me know how the vog is today?
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It was a beautiful day, just like here. The wind is taking the vog straight south away from the islands.
Got a bunch of lead out, hopefully most of it. The Armscor is copper plated so the lead might be from the powder. Maybe...
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It was a beautiful day, just like here. The wind is taking the vog straight south away from the islands.
Got a bunch of lead out, hopefully most of it. The Armscor is copper plated so the lead might be from the powder. Maybe...
What method/product worked best to get out the lead?
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I use My own concoction of Ed’s Red with extra acetone which is supposed to melt the copper but hoped it worked with lead. Gloves and glasses are a must.
http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm
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My latest happenings. It's been a month since my last visit to the range.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/07/20/july-19-2018/
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My latest happenings. It's been a month since my last visit to the range.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/07/20/july-19-2018/
Pink Floyd? 8-Track? I think I started having an acid flashback! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Pink Floyd? 8-Track? I think I started having an acid flashback! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Also had Queen Night at the Opera and Fleetwood Mac Rumors on 8-track. Might switch someday. The music should be something you've listened to hundreds of time so your mind doesn't have to focus on the music.
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Also had Queen Night at the Opera and Fleetwood Mac Rumors on 8-track. Might switch someday. The music should be something you've listened to hundreds of time so your mind doesn't have to focus on the music.
Well, Pink Floyd certainly qualifies for me. Also, Deep Purple, Led Zepplin and Black Sabbath. :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
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Speaking of Ozzy, I thought this was funny. Couldn't find the Comedy Central version so they may have taken it down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB8gH0C-6SY
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Speaking of Ozzy, I thought this was funny. Couldn't find the Comedy Central version so they may have taken it down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB8gH0C-6SY
Definitely enjoyed that thanks. Cat Stevens has a special meaning for me while I was growing up. When he converted to Islam he was banned from coming to the US. Also, he changed the words to some of his songs. That really disappointed me as the word changes also changed the meaning to his songs. I was surprised to see in this video that he is allowed to travel back to the US.
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My latest happenings.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/08/04/august-3-2018/
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My latest happenings.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/08/04/august-3-2018/
With your 1911-22, do you find that the lead build up issue happens with all ammo or just with the Armscor? Or more so with the Armscor and less with others? Vice versa?
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With your 1911-22, do you find that the lead build up issue happens with all ammo or just with the Armscor? Or more so with the Armscor and less with others? Vice versa?
More so lately with the Armscor which is strange because they are copper coated. Could it be copper build up? It looks more like grey material on the patch.
I took the MB off the 6.5 CM and installed the Limbsaver. The Magnetospeed barely fits under it. Shouldn't be a problem because the instructions say to keep the muzzle at least 1/4" from the V-block. I'll probably also try the LS behind the chrono. I have 4 of the Noslers left and 45 of the Hornadys left. I found more HM bullets at Arm or Ally but holding out for free shipping at Brownells. Plus last time I ordered bullets from AOA, it took over a month to arrive so hesitant to try it again.
I used the last of the lead test kit on the magnetospeed and was heavily contaminated with lead but easy to clean off.
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More so lately with the Armscor which is strange because they are copper coated. Could it be copper build up? It looks more like grey material on the patch.
I took the MB off the 6.5 CM and installed the Limbsaver. The Magnetospeed barely fits under it. Shouldn't be a problem because the instructions say to keep the muzzle at least 1/4" from the V-block. I'll probably also try the LS behind the chrono. I have 4 of the Noslers left and 45 of the Hornadys left. I found more HM bullets at Arm or Ally but holding out for free shipping at Brownells. Plus last time I ordered bullets from AOA, it took over a month to arrive so hesitant to try it again.
I used the last of the lead test kit on the magnetospeed and was heavily contaminated with lead but easy to clean off.
The .22 bullet with the copper coating is usually a copper wash. It is a very thin coating so I am sure it is lead build up not copper. Personally, I think the copper wash bullets are just a marketing ploy as I have never seen the copper washed bullets have a cleaner result in my barrels.
Let me know when you have some documentation using the limbsaver. Just curious if you see any significant results.
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My latest happenings.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/08/11/august-10-2018/
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Good luck with Hurricane Lane.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/08/23/august-22-2018/
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My latest happenings...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/09/02/september-2-2018/
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Had a weird malfunction with the AR-15...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/09/09/september-9-2018/
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More good results with Varget.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/09/22/september-21-2018/
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The fun part of using Wordpress to create my blog is the ability to see where visitors are from. I wonder who those three from Malta are?
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The fun part of using Wordpress to create my blog is the ability to see where visitors are from. I wonder who those three from Malta are?
When you start getting them from China, Russian Federation and the Netherlands you know you have arrived.
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When you start getting them from China, Russian Federation and the Netherlands you know you have arrived.
So I shouldn't have bought those gift cards for them??? >:D
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So I shouldn't have bought those gift cards for them??? >:D
Use western union instead. LOL
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See you at the Gun Show...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/09/30/september-29-2018/
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My latest happenings...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/10/21/october-20-2018/
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My recent happenings...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/.../24/october-24-2018/
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Found a source for hard to find calibers...
https://www.buffaloarms.com/7-62x54r-russian-cases-hor76254r
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Happy Veteran's Day, everyone...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/11/11/november-11-2018/
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Happy Veteran's Day, everyone...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/11/11/november-11-2018/
Hey RK, have you had any good experience with lead boolits in your 300BO? I noticed in your last post you had reloaded 21 rounds of subsonic.
I experimented with a 110gr spire point loaded supersonic and was not impressed. Everything cycled just fine, accuracy was not good. If I could get decent accuracy with a lead boolit subsonic, I might reconsider reloading lead in my 300BO.
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I think the boolits ran fine in the 300BLK. They hit paper okay but hard to tell because of the subsonic bullet drop. I have plenty of other powders to try out and just ordered more (Black Friday sale). https://www.egglestonmunitions.com/shop.html#!/30-Caliber-200gr-500-Count/p/68177190/category=10873432
My latest happenings...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/11/18/november-18-2018/
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Hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/11/25/november-25-2018/
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More IMR 4451 awesomeness...
(https://ronsreloading.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/39-4.png)
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/12/02/december-2-2018/
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Merry Christmas everyone.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/12/20/december-20-2018/
(https://ronsreloading.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/Capture.png?w=736)
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Happy New Year, everyone!
Had interesting results with the 6.5 Creedmoor.
(https://ronsreloading.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/i4350-2.png)
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2018/12/30/range-report-december-30-2018/
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Aloha,
Got the best results so far with the 6.5 Creedmoor.
(https://ronsreloading.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/35.9-1.png)
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2019/01/05/range-report-january-5-2019/
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Got the best result with the AR yet.
(https://ronsreloading.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/52gr-varget.png)
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2019/01/14/range-report-january-13-2019/
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Nice!
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Successes with 6.5 Creedmoor and Varget...
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2019/01/25/range-report-january-25-2019/
(https://ronsreloading.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/hvarget.png)
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Got the best result with the AR yet.
(https://ronsreloading.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/52gr-varget.png)
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2019/01/14/range-report-january-13-2019/
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Awesome :thumbsup:
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Great results with the 140gr Nosler RDF.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2019/02/13/range-report-february-13-2019/
(https://ronsreloading.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/n6.5-varget-1.png)
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Nice grouping rk. Are you doing weighted charge? Or throw on powder? No matter, it’s the shooter that makes the difference.. Nice shooting! :thumbsup:
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(https://ronsreloading.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/20190427_081822125_ios2.jpg?w=500)
Not as great grouping lately with the 6.5 CM. Above is 36.4 gr Varget with the 130gr Nosler RDF. I think it might be the Lee collet die I started using two months ago so switched back to the Hornady die.
The Mosin shot okay as well at the range. Except for powder charge and velocity, there didn't seem to be that much difference between the Unique and RL15 loads.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2019/04/25/range-report-april-25-2019/
On my previous trip, the AR had some great groups.
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/2019/04/08/range-report-april-7-2019/
(https://ronsreloading.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/bmark.png)