Oahu CCW rules completed (Read 6661 times)

QUIETShooter

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2022, 06:20:36 PM »
I going wait until the mud clears.

Going be one circus.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

changemyoil66

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2022, 06:40:09 PM »
A reduced version would be a B-29 a.k.a. "25 Yard Police Pistol Silhouette", 14"x 22"
7 point is 7x10 decreasing 1" per +point.


I think most indoor ranges here will go out to 20-25m

    Bigger issue is a lot of ranges do not permit "holster work" much less from concealed. :grrr:

     And if the "type 2''  holster is not a requirement, does the " minimum four-hour lecture" and  "written multiple-choice examination" still require
inclusion of "proper holsters for carrying concealed and unconcealed firearms," ?

Its in the rules what the class needs to consist of. I dont remember off the top of my head. But low light and weapon retention is required

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changemyoil66

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2022, 06:41:10 PM »
B-29 is 50-foot silhouette; B-34 is 25-yard.
U can use the targets at the required state distances. As long as theyre NRA targets.  If im reading the rules correctly.

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Jaco808

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2022, 06:46:28 PM »
I better get out and practice. I'm gonna shoot low at 3 and 5 yards trying to hit 10s under pressure, probably. Were there any rules about "clearing garment's" on the draw? Or, can I just do one of those Western poncho things and tuck my shirt inside my IWB holster so I can just pull?

I think most indoor ranges here will go out to 20-25m

Okay thanks only been to the one on queen street it's kinda small. 

Sodie

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2022, 07:13:21 PM »
U can use the targets at the required state distances. As long as theyre NRA targets.  If im reading the rules correctly.

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The underlying point is that those targets are significantly different sizes; B-27 is a “full-size” silhouette, the standard target for NRA Police Pistol Combat matches with courses of fire out to 50 yards.  B-34 is half the size of the B-27, so if you only have access to a 25-yard range, you can use that target at 25 yards for the 50-yard PPC course of fire.  The B-29 is 1/3 the size of the B-27, so 50 feet with a B-29 is the equivalent of 50 yards with a B-27.

Scoring a 75 on the HPD’s permit test course of fire on a B-27 should be no big drama using the “5/4/3” scoring scheme; the 5-zone is pretty big, based on the dimensions I found online.  Doing the same on a B-29 would be a different story…

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2022, 07:25:50 PM »
One question is whether the C&C will now allow the same targets for practice at KHSC as they require for CCW testing.  That's especially relevant if the tests are going to be given at KHSC.

Makes more sense to allow silhouette targets for CCW qualification practice versus some irrational and arbitrary ban on them.

That rule has never made a lick of sense to me.

They are also going to have to allow practice drawing from concealment.

Can't expect people to pass a test they never practiced for, and can't expect them to all afford cost of practicing at a private range.

This whole anti-CCW scheme is going to continue snowballing into an overly-complicated, unmanageable clusterfk.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

Stack_Xchange

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2022, 09:24:42 PM »
One question is whether the C&C will now allow the same targets for practice at KHSC as they require for CCW testing.  That's especially relevant if the tests are going to be given at KHSC.

Makes more sense to allow silhouette targets for CCW qualification practice versus some irrational and arbitrary ban on them.

That rule has never made a lick of sense to me.

They are also going to have to allow practice drawing from concealment.

Can't expect people to pass a test they never practiced for, and can't expect them to all afford cost of practicing at a private range.

This whole anti-CCW scheme is going to continue snowballing into an overly-complicated, unmanageable clusterfk.

Honestly, I think that's the point. They made these rules and TBH, if I was one of the ranges, I wouldn't want random people "practicing" for this test and having accidents. Then we have to sue, saying it's unreasonable to expect everyone take the test without preparation, then a year and a half later, we have new rules after lawsuits settle and new policy is made. Repeat.

QUIETShooter

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2022, 10:23:42 PM »
All of this is on purpose.  They want confusion, accidents, lawsuits.  They want it to fail.  Then they can say "See, no can...."

Even though "can". 

Just implement constitutional carry.  They no like. They no trust us.  They scaid.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

4C5S

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2022, 04:37:19 AM »
Maybe we need to change our focus from C&C Hon. to the HI rev stat 134-9 and challenge the unconstitutional language or maybe even revisit the entire ch 134 in light of Bruen.

QUIETShooter

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2022, 05:57:07 AM »
Maybe we need to change our focus from C&C Hon. to the HI rev stat 134-9 and challenge the unconstitutional language or maybe even revisit the entire ch 134 in light of Bruen.

Maybe.  Gotta start somewhere.  What is transpiring is ridiculous.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Heavies

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2022, 05:58:38 AM »
Maybe we need to change our focus from C&C Hon. to the HI rev stat 134-9 and challenge the unconstitutional language or maybe even revisit the entire ch 134 in light of Bruen.

Yes. The entire 134 is unconstitutional

Heavies

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2022, 05:59:59 AM »
Forgot that instructors need to be approved by HPD.  So lets see how long that takes from 11/20/22 if people apply to teach on this date.

Do you have a link to read the entire rule?

Heavies

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2022, 06:14:42 AM »
Yay. This means kokohead should be opening back up, with new less strict rules, so the public can actually safely practicing these tests!  \sarc

zippz

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2022, 06:56:39 AM »
Do you have a link to read the entire rule?

https://hnldoc.ehawaii.gov/hnldoc/document-download?id=15832

Implemented in 10 days from signing.  Not much has changed since the original October 4th hearing.  Removed the holster requirement, adjusted the out of state mental evals.  Go over it more later.
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Rocky

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2022, 07:55:29 AM »
 :wave:
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 08:52:45 AM by Rocky »
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stangzilla

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2022, 08:16:08 AM »
says "from the holster"
this means it doesn't have to be from concealment?
can go with OWB with clothing cleared of the holster and gun?

changemyoil66

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2022, 09:09:25 AM »
Do you have a link to read the entire rule?

 https://hnldoc.ehawaii.gov/hnldoc/document-download?id=15832

Thought I posted it in the 1st post.  My bad. No focus.

changemyoil66

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2022, 09:10:18 AM »
says "from the holster"
this means it doesn't have to be from concealment?
can go with OWB with clothing cleared of the holster and gun?

I would say it's up to the teacher.  And I would interpret this the way you are. So OWB is g2g. 

changemyoil66

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2022, 09:11:54 AM »
:wtf:

15-24 goes right back to "NEED" and denotes a "MAY ISSUE"

§ 15-24
(1) Pursuant to HRS § 134-9(a), the applicant must “sufficiently indicate that the
applicant has an “urgency” or “need” t
o carry a firearm and is “engaged in the
protection of life and property.”
(A) The “urgency” or “need” is “sufficiently indicated” only if an applicant
has a need to carry a firearm for protection that substantially exceeds the
need possessed by ordinary law-abiding citizens.


(B) Being “engaged in the protection of life and property” does not require an
applicant to be employed in a job that entails the protection of life or
property, such as a Guard, but it does require the applicant to be taking
part, generally, in the protection of life, property, or both.

(C) The life or property being protected is not limited to the applicant’s life or
property but can extend to that of others.

(2) The Chief may consider the following non-exhaustive list of factors when
determining whether an applicant has an “urgency” or “need” to carry a firearm

and is “engaged in the protection of life and property”:
(A) Whether the applicant has been subjected to a credible threat of harm to
life, property, or both.
(B) Whether there has been corroboration of the threat, from police,
government, or other records; from prior history with the same person or
at the same location; or from witnesses, documents, or other first-hand
sources.
(C) Whether the applicant has been the victim of crime, such as domestic
abuse, in which the applicant was specifically targeted, as opposed to the
applicant being the victim of random crime.
(D) Whether temporary restraining orders, protective orders, or other court
orders or proceedings demonstrate a risk of harm to life or property.
(E) Whether the applicant’s profession supports the need for a firearm due to
the heightened risk of attack or violence that the applicant faces.
(F) Whether the applicant lives or works in a rural area far from police
protection, as opposed to living or working in an urban area with a
significant police presence.
(G) Whether the applicant is employed in ajob that requires protection of the
life or property of others.
(H) Whether a spouse, close family member, or other dependent of the
applicant faces a heightened risk of bodily harm and the applicant is
engaged in the protection of that person.
(I) Whether the applicant has an “urgency” or “need” to carry a firearm
unconcealed rather than concealed, taking into account considerations
such as whether an Unconcealed License will enable the applicant to
protect life or property more effectively than a Concealed License, and
whether the intended use of the Unconcealed License is likely to cause
terror and panic among the general public.
(J) Other factors not mentioned above but reasonable and appropriate to the
decision whether to grant or deny an application for an Unconcealed
License.

I think until HRS134-9 is changed and "exceptional circumstance" is removed, this portion will remain. Which mean it would have to be during the legislative session.

changemyoil66

Re: Oahu CCW rules completed
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2022, 09:13:19 AM »
One question is whether the C&C will now allow the same targets for practice at KHSC as they require for CCW testing.  That's especially relevant if the tests are going to be given at KHSC.

Makes more sense to allow silhouette targets for CCW qualification practice versus some irrational and arbitrary ban on them.

That rule has never made a lick of sense to me.

They are also going to have to allow practice drawing from concealment.

Can't expect people to pass a test they never practiced for, and can't expect them to all afford cost of practicing at a private range.

This whole anti-CCW scheme is going to continue snowballing into an overly-complicated, unmanageable clusterfk.

If things are run the same, it would have to be done at an open shoot by an organization like HRA, HDF, etc....

I think there should also be a separate section available for this type of qual that is open during all range hours since HDF is once a month and HRA is twice a month.  IDK what the other groups have.