Maine mass shooting (Read 5914 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2023, 12:51:03 PM »
I don't want to put words in Ren's mouth (he does fine without any help). 

What i think he's taking exception with is you calling "A skilled military rifleman" "very dangerous."

I get what you're saying, but this plays into the hysteria of the general public and their irrational fear of firearms.  It's one of the argument they have against public carry.  Someone involved in a road rage incident is "more dangerous" if they are licensed to carry a firearm.  I don't think that's true, since a car or truck can be a dangerous and lethal weapon, too.

Does being a skilled military rifleman make you dangerous?  If so, then most mass shooters would have been skilled military riflemen I imagine.

I think it's a better choice of words to say a skilled military rifleman can be more effective if they decide to commit mass murder.  Their thought process is what's dangerous.  Their skill just makes them more capable of executing their plan.

Just sayin'.

There was a show on either NatGeo or like channel like 20 years ago about this.  How when some people get out of the miltiary, they join a gang and teach them how to shoot or move and shoot.  The show aired a video of a gang member shooting at police while taking effective cover, moving from cover to cover, and things like that. 

Or are in a gang, but use joining to enhance their ability to shoot/take lives/fight. They had pics of guys in military uniforms making "gang signs".

ren

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2023, 02:13:09 PM »
https://www.foxnews.com/media/maine-community-riddled-fear-shooting-suspects-whereabouts-mystery-absolutely-terrifying

"This is something where we need to pray, read our Bibles and make sure our firearms are loaded. We're going to need any sense of peace to get through this," Pietrowicz continued.

"We're doing the right thing, sheltering in place, letting the authorities handle this. But it is certainly something where, I mean, this is just absolutely terrifying right now with what we're going through, and we just need to come together as a community and pray."
Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2023, 02:46:24 PM »
A friend of mine lives 100 miles from where the bowling alley is.  He's a 2a guy, but 1 of those who doesn't ccw everywhere he goes.  Today he is.

ren

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2023, 03:20:13 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/maine-pol-stunning-mea-culpa-231600963.html

The state lawmaker whose hometown in Maine was torn apart by a gunman wielding a sniper rifle on Wednesday issued a stunning mea culpa on Thursday, apologizing for previously voting against an assault rifle ban and vowing to do everything possible to outlaw “weapons of war.”

“The time has now come for me to take responsibility for this failure which is why I now call on the United States Congress to ban assault rifles like the one used by the sick perpetrator of this mass killing,” said State Rep. Jared Golden, whose district includes Lewiston, where Army marksman Robert Card allegedly killed 18 people in a bowling alley and a nearby bar.

Golden conceded his prior opposition to gun control measures was based on several “misjudgments,” among them, his “fear of this dangerous world,” his determination to protect his wife and daughter in their home, and his “false confidence that our community was above this and that we could be in full control.”

Card, a trained firearms instructor in the U.S. Army Reserve, used a sniper rifle with .308 caliber bullets to unleash the carnage on Wednesday, officials told NBC News. Grainy photos released by cops, who were still hunting for Card on Thursday night, appeared to show a second magazine attached to his high-powered weapon.


If you knew nothing about firearms etc. What are the key elements you would take away from this article?
Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2023, 04:55:33 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/maine-pol-stunning-mea-culpa-231600963.html

The state lawmaker whose hometown in Maine was torn apart by a gunman wielding a sniper rifle on Wednesday issued a stunning mea culpa on Thursday, apologizing for previously voting against an assault rifle ban and vowing to do everything possible to outlaw “weapons of war.”

“The time has now come for me to take responsibility for this failure which is why I now call on the United States Congress to ban assault rifles like the one used by the sick perpetrator of this mass killing,” said State Rep. Jared Golden, whose district includes Lewiston, where Army marksman Robert Card allegedly killed 18 people in a bowling alley and a nearby bar.

Golden conceded his prior opposition to gun control measures was based on several “misjudgments,” among them, his “fear of this dangerous world,” his determination to protect his wife and daughter in their home, and his “false confidence that our community was above this and that we could be in full control.”

Card, a trained firearms instructor in the U.S. Army Reserve, used a sniper rifle with .308 caliber bullets to unleash the carnage on Wednesday, officials told NBC News. Grainy photos released by cops, who were still hunting for Card on Thursday night, appeared to show a second magazine attached to his high-powered weapon.


If you knew nothing about firearms etc. What are the key elements you would take away from this article?
Emotion gets bills passed into law.

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macsak

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2023, 07:06:06 PM »

macsak

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2023, 07:27:04 PM »

macsak

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2023, 05:28:55 AM »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2023, 09:08:52 AM »
Maine is not the first state to have a reservist commit mass murder. 

The term "going postal' was coined to describe the mass shooting in Edmund, OK.  The perp was an Air Force reservist who, among other duties, taught firearm classes at Tinker AFB.  My supervisor at the time had taken his class. 

Quote
Patrick Henry Sherrill (November 13, 1941 – August 20, 1986) was born in Watonga,
Oklahoma, and had served in the United States Marine Corps. Sherrill was described
as a loner by those who knew him.[14] He was considered an expert marksman,[1]
gaining experience in small-arms through being in the Oklahoma Air National Guard,[5]
in which he was a member of a pistol team.[1]

Also, Maine is not the first state to suffer a mass shooting by a military member with a known mental health problem and still allowed to purchase and possess firearms. 

Quote
Texas church shooter Devin Kelley escaped from a psychiatric hospital five years
before carrying out the worst mass killing in Texas history, according to a police
report released on Tuesday.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church-shooter-devin-kelley-once-escaped-from-a-psychiatric-hospital-while-in-the-air-force
Quote
Kelley had previously served in the U.S. Air Force, and was stationed at Holloman
Air Force Base in New Mexico from 2010 until his discharge in 2014, an Air Force
spokesperson confirmed to Fox News.

He was court-martialed in 2012 for assaulting his wife and his child, and later received
a bad conduct discharge from the Air Force, in addition to confinement for 12 months,
and was reduced in rank.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-church-shooter-devin-patrick-kelley-served-in-air-force-was-court-martialed-for-assaulting-wife-child

This is why the Air Force was found "mostly at fault" for the worst mass shooting in Texas' history.  Even with 2 massive red flags -- mental illness and domestic abuse/assault -- he was never reported to the FBI for this information to be part of NICS.  He simply checked the boxes he needed to in order to purchase his weapon, and the NICS check had no reason to deny him.

I'm sure i can find other examples of military members or shooters known to suffer mental illness prior to the mass murders, but just these two show that, even when the system's design should have caught the perp buying a firearm, it failed miserably. 

The solution to failing to enforce existing gun laws should not be "make more laws."
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

QUIETShooter

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2023, 09:10:48 AM »
If they really wanted to save lives, they would address mental health issues.  But confiscating guns is more important.  Those lives in Maine would have been spared if they addressed the shooters mental health signals.

Are our nation's leaders really concerned with saving people's lives?  Or is there another, more important agenda.......

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vp-harris-follow-australia-s-example-confiscate-american-s-guns/ar-AA1iWWcr?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=33b2137149e049078fa670064e4df84c&ei=14
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2023, 09:21:51 AM »
If they really wanted to save lives, they would address mental health issues.  But confiscating guns is more important.  Those lives in Maine would have been spared if they addressed the shooters mental health signals.

Are our nation's leaders really concerned with saving people's lives?  Or is there another, more important agenda.......

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vp-harris-follow-australia-s-example-confiscate-american-s-guns/ar-AA1iWWcr?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=33b2137149e049078fa670064e4df84c&ei=14

Quote
...
This commentary has also led some gun activists to imply that Australia's reforms amounted
to a "surrender" of firearms ownership.

Despite this, evidence suggests that the number of guns in Australia may now be higher than
before Port Arthur.

Gun policy research shows that the total number of firearm imports to Australia since 2008
has been consistently higher than figures recorded in 1996 (although the same statistics show
there was a sudden spike of imports in 1997).

A 2021 article published by the University of Sydney also found that, while the proportions of
Australians that hold a gun license and Australian households with a firearm have fallen
dramatically since 1997, people who already owned guns have bought more.

It added that government figures on imports of modern firearms for private owners now
"fluctuate between 65,000 and 116,000 each year."

Furthermore, a 2019 report by The Australia Institute stated the number of guns per gun owner
in the country had increased from 2.1 guns per gun owner since 1997 to 3.9. Additionally, it found
the number of firearms reported in Australia were higher than pre-Port Arthur levels.

So, while Australia's changes to gun ownership laws have made possession a far more
stringent process, and some illegal firearms have been bought back by the state after the law
was passed, it hasn't resulted in a "surrender" by private owners.

There is also evidence to suggest that the changes to Australia's gun laws have correlated
with a reduction in mass shootings.

However, the accuracy of the claim that gun laws have eradicated mass shootings in part
depends on the definition of such a crime.

A RAND Corporation analysis of mass shootings in Australia since 1996 defines mass
shootings as incidents in which four or more people have been killed.

In a separate report on mass shootings in the United States, RAND also highlighted
disagreement on whether a mass shooting can only be referred to as such if it took place
in a public setting.
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-australia-solve-mass-shootings-surrendering-its-guns-1710584
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

macsak

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2023, 10:13:38 AM »

Wchiro

P
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2023, 12:31:56 PM »
Notice how all these mass shootings the shooter always has a mental problem and use drugs that are prescribed.  And those shooters who were captured alive some say that voices told them to do it.  Watch this video.  I'll post time stamps.

24:07....Professor shows students he can project sounds into your head without hearing it out loud and other people won't hear it.  (MKULTRA does not seem to far fetched now does it)
32:05....List of mass shootings where shooters were mentally ill.

Conspiracy theory?  What do you think, choice is yours. 
 
https://rumble.com/v3rwm2d-ep-3197b-ds-just-played-their-card-big-fail-game-over-speaker-was-the-targe.html
« Last Edit: October 27, 2023, 12:43:59 PM by Wchiro »

changemyoil66

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2023, 12:40:48 PM »
If they really wanted to save lives, they would address mental health issues.  But confiscating guns is more important.  Those lives in Maine would have been spared if they addressed the shooters mental health signals.

Are our nation's leaders really concerned with saving people's lives?  Or is there another, more important agenda.......

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vp-harris-follow-australia-s-example-confiscate-american-s-guns/ar-AA1iWWcr?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=33b2137149e049078fa670064e4df84c&ei=14

That's what I've been saying is the reason why anti 2a orgs like ET and MDA are a joke. If they really wanted to do something, they would work with gun owners and not just take the guns away.  But I get why they exist, those at the top level of the org's goal is deleting the 2A and not actual safety so the government and those in power can control the USA.  It's the wacko's who believe public safety like those who attend the hearings and never mention their daughter committed suicide, while trying ban mags over 10 rds.  Guess she shot herself 11+ times.

changemyoil66

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2023, 12:41:30 PM »
Notice how all these mass shootings the shooter always has a mental problem and use drugs that are prescribed.  And those shooters who were captured alive some say that voices told them to do it.  Watch this video.  I'll post time stamps.

24:07....Professor shows students he can project sounds into your head without hearing it out loud and other people won't hear it.  (MKULTRA does not seem to far fetched now does it)
32:05....List of mass shootings where shooters were mentally ill.

Conspiracy theory?  What do you think, choice is yours. 

https://rumble.com/v3rwm2d-ep-3197b-ds-just-played-their-card-big-fail-game-over-speaker-was-the-targe.html

If only we knew how many active shooters were on anti depressants...

oldfart

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2023, 04:17:11 PM »
The news reports that the dude offed himself.
What, Me Worry?

QUIETShooter

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2023, 06:02:54 PM »
The news reports that the dude offed himself.


Even though he was suffering from mental illness the dude knew he was f*cked.  Maybe one of the many voices in his head told him.

Hope people wake up.  Those who want gun control are not primarily concerned with your lives nor those of your family.

If they did they would direct their energies and resources to the mental health problem.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

changemyoil66

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2023, 08:31:10 AM »
Bowling alley is gun free zone.

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nalo_b

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2023, 09:05:51 AM »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maine mass shooting
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2023, 11:55:02 AM »
https://youtu.be/zcm-19myigo?si=H3fnLOAXp5RgKcrQ

That video reiterated what i've always said about red flag laws. 

if someone is too dangerous to possess guns, then they are too dangerous to be walking around freely.  Lock the person up, and you won't have to worry about what weapons they might have access to:  guns, bombs, airborne chemicals, poisons, vehicles, sharp implements, crossbows, .... 

Taking away guns from dangerous people will not stop the threat of violence.  if someone really wants to get a gun to do harm to others, there are too many ways to get them outside the legal process.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall