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Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD (Read 5796 times)

punaperson

Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« on: February 16, 2019, 07:20:00 AM »
I appreciate their timely announcement of this hearing at 4:54 PM on a Friday before a three-day weekend where testimony will be due on the Monday holiday prior to the committee hearing on Tuesday.

COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY
Rep. Chris Lee, Chair
Rep. Joy A. San Buenaventura, Vice Chair
NOTICE OF HEARING
DATE:
Tuesday, February 19, 2019
TIME:
2:05pm
PLACE:
Conference Room 325
State Capitol
415 South Beretania Street

HB 720, HD1
(HSCR521)

RELATING TO FIREARMS.

Requires firearm owners to report lost, stolen, or destroyed firearms.  (HB720 HD1)
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Direjackalope

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2019, 08:31:06 AM »
Good catch. This means it’s getting harder to ignore us?  I’ll take it as a compliment.
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Gordyf

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2019, 01:44:21 PM »
Hey guys
Take a look at the testimony submitted on HB 720 on the web site.
First one, by the Police, second page, says that local dealers don't do background checks on gun buyers.
Am I missing something?
Seems that on those times that I have purchased a firearm from a local dealer, I filled out a form 4473 and the guy took it to the back for follow up
NICS check. A background check by anyone's standard.
What's up with that????
Aloha... I think
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Aloha
Gordy

oldfart

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2019, 02:08:08 PM »
Quote from: Gordyf on February 16, 2019, 01:44:21 PM
Hey guys
Take a look at the testimony submitted on HB 720 on the web site.
First one, by the Police, second page, says that local dealers don't do background checks on gun buyers.
Am I missing something?
Seems that on those times that I have purchased a firearm from a local dealer, I filled out a form 4473 and the guy took it to the back for follow up
NICS check. A background check by anyone's standard.
What's up with that????
Aloha... I think
...
The dealer doesn't do background checks.
The PD does it when you apply for a permit to acquire.
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What, Me Worry?

Gordyf

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2019, 02:15:23 PM »
Quote from: oldfart on February 16, 2019, 02:08:08 PM
...
The dealer doesn't do background checks.
The PD does it when you apply for a permit to acquire.

OoooK, but the NICS says Yes or no does it not??
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Aloha
Gordy

oldfart

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2019, 04:44:55 PM »
Quote from: Gordyf on February 16, 2019, 02:15:23 PM
OoooK, but the NICS says Yes or no does it not??
...
As I understand our system, the pd background check encompasses the NICS and the local criminal database records.
So theoretically a dealer who uses NICS is doing a redundant check which might not include state specific information.
Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.
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What, Me Worry?

Gordyf

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2019, 05:50:27 PM »
Quote from: oldfart on February 16, 2019, 04:44:55 PM
...
As I understand our system, the pd background check encompasses the NICS and the local criminal database records.
So theoretically a dealer who uses NICS is doing a redundant check which might not include state specific information.
Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

It is supposed to include State specific information, as well as National info. That said there is a problem with some states providing data.
You don't walk out the door with a firearm unless NICS says Yes based on the 4473... permit from the local cop shop or not.It is not redundant.
That is why you have an FFL and are accountable.
Yes the PoPo uses Nics too, but the dealer is the last line of defense... allegedly.
Somebody tell me different. Please.
I would like to think that our PD is not misleading the legislature, or that maybe the guys at the thought proof/bullet proof window
Know what's up.


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Aloha
Gordy

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2019, 06:32:59 PM »
Quote from: Gordyf on February 16, 2019, 05:50:27 PM
It is supposed to include State specific information, as well as National info. That said there is a problem with some states providing data.
You don't walk out the door with a firearm unless NICS says Yes based on the 4473... permit from the local cop shop or not.It is not redundant.
That is why you have an FFL and are accountable.
Yes the PoPo uses Nics too, but the dealer is the last line of defense... allegedly.
Somebody tell me different. Please.
I would like to think that our PD is not misleading the legislature, or that maybe the guys at the thought proof/bullet proof window
Know what's up.



https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/about-nics
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Gordyf

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2019, 07:34:01 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on February 16, 2019, 06:32:59 PM


https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/about-nics

So you are saying this is us?
I am not sure I all the way understand.
 ???
I am a simple fellow.
Who gets called when I fill out the 4473?
Is the FFL not doing a background check?
If my permit is defacto a background check, why do I have to do a 4473?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 07:40:19 PM by Gordyf »
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Aloha
Gordy

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2019, 12:03:40 AM »
Quote from: Gordyf on February 16, 2019, 07:34:01 PM
So you are saying this is us?
I am not sure I all the way understand.
 ???
I am a simple fellow.
Who gets called when I fill out the 4473?
Is the FFL not doing a background check?
If my permit is defacto a background check, why do I have to do a 4473?

In most states, the NICS background check is instant (it's in the name).  For most sales, the FFL submits the 4473 info via Internet, The FBI looks up your records in several database, and they approve the transfer in minutes.

If the FBI has problems or questions concerning your applications/4473, the FBI has 3 days to adjudicate it.  If they don't reject you in 3 days, the transfer is automatically allowed.

For Hawaii NICS, the only differences are:

1.  The FFL submits the 4473 to HPD for approval -- not to the FBI.
2.  The process takes 2 weeks if you have to apply for a permit.  it's "instant" if you already have a long gun permit and if that's what you're buying.
3.  NICS results go to HPD, not the FFL.

All interaction with the FBI is through HPD.  HPD is the "POC" (Point of Contact) for NICS in Honolulu.

Form 4473: 

Federal law requires all firearm transfers through FFLs be recorded on the 4473. Dealers must keep those forms for 20 years. If they go out of business, they are supposed to send their files to the ATF for storage.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 12:08:57 AM by Flapp_Jackson »
Logged
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Gordyf

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2019, 07:43:29 AM »
Ok. I think I got it.
Thanks
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Aloha
Gordy

macsak

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2019, 07:49:27 AM »
Quote from: punaperson on February 16, 2019, 07:20:00 AM
I appreciate their timely announcement of this hearing at 4:54 PM on a Friday before a three-day weekend where testimony will be due on the Monday holiday prior to the committee hearing on Tuesday.

COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY
Rep. Chris Lee, Chair
Rep. Joy A. San Buenaventura, Vice Chair
NOTICE OF HEARING
DATE:
Tuesday, February 19, 2019
TIME:
2:05pm
PLACE:
Conference Room 325
State Capitol
415 South Beretania Street

HB 720, HD1
(HSCR521)

RELATING TO FIREARMS.

Requires firearm owners to report lost, stolen, or destroyed firearms.  (HB720 HD1)
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=720&year=2019
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punaperson

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2019, 08:15:44 AM »
Quote from: macsak on February 17, 2019, 07:49:27 AM
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=720&year=2019
I'm probably going to ask for an amendment to the effect that not only "lost, stolen, and destroyed" firearms be reported, but also that "transferred out of state" be reported and those firearms, and their owners if the owners moved out of state, be removed from the registration database and removed from Rapback also. Seems reasonable, no?
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Heavies

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2019, 02:46:07 PM »
Victims of crime should NEVER be penalized.  Making it a crime to be a victim of theft or robbery is ridiculous!

This is a complete waste of taxpayer dollars.  Gun violence is a NON issue in Hawaii, compared to ALL the other problems that need IMMEDIATE ATTENTION in this State.
Do not waste time on these anti gun agenda bills.  They go against the Constitution of the United States, the constitution of Hawaii, AND are in contrary to your sworn oaths when you took office!

I am a voter, and I promise you, no gun control and anti-Constitution legislator will never get another vote from me, or from those who would defend freedom.


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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2019, 02:55:21 PM »
Quote from: Heavies on February 17, 2019, 02:46:07 PM
Victims of crime should NEVER be penalized.  Making it a crime to be a victim of theft or robbery is ridiculous!

This is a complete waste of taxpayer dollars.  Gun violence is a NON issue in Hawaii, compared to ALL the other problems that need IMMEDIATE ATTENTION in this State.
Do not waste time on these anti gun agenda bills.  They go against the Constitution of the United States, the constitution of Hawaii, AND are in contrary to your sworn oaths when you took office!

I am a voter, and I promise you, no gun control and anti-Constitution legislator will never get another vote from me, or from those who would defend freedom.

This law is unenforceable. How can the state prove you had earlier knowledge the firearm was lost or stolen?

Unreasonable to punish someone without evidence they did something wrong.

How will not reporting a lost or stolen firearm negatively impact the victim should the gun be used in a crime?

This is just one more law to force gun owners to assist a police investigation.  Last I checked, you have a right to not cooperate with the police in their investigations.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RedLetterIndustries

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2019, 06:14:47 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on February 17, 2019, 12:03:40 AM

1.  The FFL submits the 4473 to HPD for approval -- not to the FBI.


Dealers do not submit 4473s to HPD.  HPD does a NICS check with the information applicants provide them when applying for their permit to acquire.  It's a small difference, but HPD doesn't get to see ATFs paperwork.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Testimony Due Monday Feb.18th for HB720 in JUD
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2019, 06:52:49 PM »
Quote from: RedLetterIndustries on February 17, 2019, 06:14:47 PM
Dealers do not submit 4473s to HPD.  HPD does a NICS check with the information applicants provide them when applying for their permit to acquire.  It's a small difference, but HPD doesn't get to see ATFs paperwork.

That explains why HPD makes us fill out the same info and answer the same questionnaire on their forms to submit a permit application.

 :thumbsup:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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