The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit (Read 30160 times)

tonsofguns

With all the recent discussion on CCW, I thought it would be prudent to discuss first aid kits and treatment of gun shot wounds or other dangerous injuries. Any shooting situation is an extreme danger to your personal safety and the safety of others around you. Whether you are at the range, your favorite hunting grounds, or even in your home, if you plan on being armed, in the event of an emergency, you must plan on keeping yourself, a loved one, or maybe a total stranger alive until help arrives. This is what being a responsible firearms owner and carrier is all about.

***Disclaimer***
I am NOT a doctor or a paramedic. I am NOT a professional. This is NOT a how-to guide. It is NOT to be misconstrued as advice or medical knowledge. This is what I carry and can do in an emergency that requires immediate medical attention, i.e., a gun shot wound, deep puncture wound, broken bone(s), treating shock. 

Any personal experiences that you folks have and/or training, please add it to this thread. The purpose of this thread is to be informative and to encourage others to seek training and to anticipate the much more realistic event of being wounded.
***Disclaimer***


For carrying my Gun Shot Wound kit (reffered to as GSW kit from here on) I chose a standard USGI first aid box. It measures approximately 5 1/2" x 4 1/2" x 2". I find it useful because it is rugged, it can be slipped into a cargo pocket or a small pocket on a range bag, it can be worn on my pistol belt when I'm hunting, it was inexpensive, and carries everything I need.



Inside my GSW kit I have added some important items that are often overlooked in a first aid kit. The first is a chem-light and the second is a mylar blanket.
The chem-light is useful because shit happens in the dark. It can be substituted by a flashlight or other quick and efficient light source, though I recommend keeping your light source in the kit itself. I like the chem-light because of its ease of use and it stores well. Chem-lights have an expiration date and should be rotated out yearly or every two years. I added black tape to mine to focus the illumination and I cut the plastic hook off to make it more compact.
The mylar space blanket is a must have for the treatment of shock. Anytime a person is injured their body can go into shock and complicate things for you and them. A good way to treat shock is to lay the person down and keep them covered. A mylar space blanket weighs next to nothing and can serve as an expedient covering. The space blanket has a ton of uses, though I wont discuss those here as they aren't related to first aid.



The next few pieces of gear I carry with me are bandages. I keep a 4" x 4" gauze pad, a 3" x 3" gauze pad, a 5" x 9" abdominal pad, a 3" roll of kerlix gauze, and a 6" Israeli dressing.
These pieces serve as various blood stoppers for different types of wounds that could be encountered. I won't go into specifics on how to employ these pieces as that is something a professional should teach. I can say that gauze is a very effective way of containing blood-loss from open wounds, or covering wounds like burns and punctures.



These last few pieces round out my GSW kit. They are an ACE elastic wrap, two pair gloves, a few anti-septic, alcohol, and iodine wipes, and about ten feet of duct tape wrapped around a business card.
Obviously the gloves are for treating other people, or other people treating you, with the second pair being for another person that is helping. The wipes are useful for disinfecting, and the ACE wrap and duct tape can be used for wrapping wounds, securing splints, a make shift tourniquet (which I will cover soon), a make shift sling, or many other uses.



A few things I don't carry purposefully are a tourniquet, a decompression needle, and nasopharyngeal airway. I know a lot of people will recommend these things, but I will admit that I do not have the training to employ such things confidently, and so cannot recommend them. I also think that these techniques are best left to professional medical personnel. I will not discourage anyone from carrying those items or others.

Question: Now, lets say you want to slap together an expedient GSW kit until you can buy some of the aforementioned items, what would I recommend?

Well, for bandages and gauze, clean white cotton t-shirt strips will work in a pinch. I know everyone has at least one white Fruit-of-the-Loom t-shirt that doesn't fit laying at the bottom of the sock drawer. Also, a couple maxi-pads, even a small child's diaper can work in a pinch, wrapped around a wound and tied off with a bandanna or a clean white gym sock cut length wise down the seem to double its length. Wrap some duct tape around a business card or old credit card for taping and securing bandages, etc. Place these items in a zip-lock bag.

Question: Well, I have some bandages, but they appear to be old and not sterile, can I use them?

Yes, of course, use them for training. Practice with someone. Practice on yourself. Take a red marker and draw a circle on your foot, or a nice big line on your arm, or a hole on your chest (yikes!). Now, reach into your pack or pocket, whip out your GSW kit and go to work. Use your old expired bandages to teach yourself.

I hope this article has been useful and I hope it encourages others to seek some basic first aid training, and to carry some lifesaving gear along with the life-defending gear. In all actuality, the gear we carry, whether to the range or anywhere else, is all life-defending. Thanks for reading.

 :thumbsup:





P.S. Mods, if this belongs in a different section, please move this. It was a toss up between the survival and preparedness section and this one. Or maybe a dedicated first aid section is necessary, I leave this up to you....

vooduchikn

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2010, 12:31:30 AM »
Nice, My bag is always with me. In my car, on the range, or in the house. Just like waiting on LEO, I reuse to wait on paramedics.

I suggest you add Quick Clot to your kit. A bandage is great and it will slow profuse bleeding, but it will not stop it.  TKs are great for appendages, but don't work for torso or head wounds. Quick Clot burns like hell, scars terribly, but applied correctly will seal the wound and keep a victims blood. pressure up and them stable until (if) better trained people show up.

I also suggest a small surgical scapel and about two feet of surgical tubing and a non-collapsible insert. This is for a collapsed lung (common on non-fatal gunshot wounds to the chest or crushing injuries). Slice between the ribs, insert the tubing
with insert to relieve the blood/fluid that is collapsing the lung.


+100 on the gloves and heat blanket,  Always treat for shock on ALL injuries.  Shock is a killer.

CPR is paramount. I get certified yearly. I have had to give it and it works.

I know an ALS instructor who would be more than willing to give a certification class to anyone that wants it.  I need about 10 to get a class going.

PM if you want to get certified.



Relax, I've banned myself..

stikiller

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Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2010, 01:07:22 AM »
Folks I swore never to post agian but when I saw Quick Clot, I had to say something!  QC, depending the wound will burn incredible bad!  It take an incredible amount of effort from the surgeon standpoint to remove that stuff.  Chemical burn and wound is not a good combination.  Recommend using Celox  with an Israeli badge depending on the wound.  Its all METT.  We replaced all of our IFAKs (Individual First Aid Kits) with Celox A. during rotation in the Middle East.  If you want more info on the stuff see celoxmedialc.com  Our good friends at LaRue Tactical also sell IFAKS and Blowout kits at an affordable prices which includes Celox and your standard line item for any tragic occasion.  I have seen QC applied and it is not a pretty site for the doc and the patient.  That stuff is frickin nasty IMHO and I would hate for anyone to be sued if they were ever involved in an active shooter scenario while rendering buddy aid to a casualty.

Peace :wave:

2aHawaii

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Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 08:12:26 AM »
Good information. A first aid kit is often overlooked and a GSW kit even more so.
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pj_benn

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2010, 08:43:42 AM »
Former us army combat medic here. Few things caught my eye. Please dont use the gauze pads for burns, its gonna get stuck. Also please dont try to fix any collapsed lungs with a scalpel by yourselves in the field. I dont think youd be able to properly identify if it was actually a pneumo/hemothorax or how to properly treat it. Ive seen doctors have trouble doing this. This is if there is a chance of medivac/ambulance. If we are talking no chance of help then do what you gotta do

Old Guy

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2010, 09:25:52 AM »
Thanks for the info on Quick Clot.  Ours are probably out of date anyway.

Celox site is giving FREE samples:  http://www.celoxsales.com/prods_celox_free_sample.html

Two nuggets of safety in one read, Tanks....
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 09:42:50 AM by Old Guy »

vooduchikn

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 12:00:53 PM »
Folks I swore never to post agian but when I saw Quick Clot, I had to say something!  QC, depending the wound will burn incredible bad!  It take an incredible amount of effort from the surgeon standpoint to remove that stuff.  Chemical burn and wound is not a good combination.  Recommend using Celox  with an Israeli badge depending on the wound.  Its all METT.  We replaced all of our IFAKs (Individual First Aid Kits) with Celox A. during rotation in the Middle East.  If you want more info on the stuff see celoxmedialc.com  Our good friends at LaRue Tactical also sell IFAKS and Blowout kits at an affordable prices which includes Celox and your standard line item for any tragic occasion.  I have seen QC applied and it is not a pretty site for the doc and the patient.  That stuff is frickin nasty IMHO and I would hate for anyone to be sued if they were ever involved in an active shooter scenario while rendering buddy aid to a casualty.

Peace :wave:

STI, thanks. I forgot to mention the part about what has to happen after it gets used... I would use it only in dire emergency and after all other methods to control bleeding had been exhausted. Thanks for updating us on Celox...gonna get some.
Relax, I've banned myself..

vooduchikn

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2010, 12:02:49 PM »
. If we are talking no chance of help then do what you gotta do

Thats why mine is in there.
Relax, I've banned myself..

HiCarry

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2010, 04:19:02 PM »
Quote
Folks I swore never to post agian but when I saw Quick Clot, I had to say something!  QC, depending the wound will burn incredible bad!  It take an incredible amount of effort from the surgeon standpoint to remove that stuff.  Chemical burn and wound is not a good combination.


QuickClot can, thru an exothermic reaction, cause skin burns. Generally these are cause by excessive blood or fluid on the area the granules are applied. That being said, in 2006, the formula was reworked and the temp of the exothermic reaction reduced to 106 degrees. The company also offers the product in a contained application (embedded onto a dressing). A 2007 article in the Journal of Trauma found that QuickClot was an effective tool and despite some minor concern over the debriedment of granules in definitive surgery, recommended its use. Furthermore, in the study cohort of 106 individuals, there were only 3 post-use burns and none were significant. 

Quote
Recommend using Celox  with an Israeli badge depending on the wound.  Its all METT.  We replaced all of our IFAKs (Individual First Aid Kits) with Celox A. during rotation in the Middle East.


All of the available external hemostatics work well. I do not believe any studies have demonstrated a definitive advantage of one over the other. As of 2007 (above referenced article published in 2008, but info from 2007 collection and evaluation period of the study) the US Army used/supplied Hemcon while the Navy/Marines issued QuickClot. A 2010 study in "Military Medicine" concluded all availble products worked equally well for inducing hemostasis in traumatic injuries. If you wish to recommend a particular product based on your opinion, I have no problem with that. If, however, you make claims about one product being superior to another, or suggest a legal liability in using one product over another, I personally would like to see some research on the subject.

Quote
That stuff is frickin nasty IMHO and I would hate for anyone to be sued if they were ever involved in an active shooter scenario while rendering buddy aid to a casualty

I am not sure what you mean by "nasty" and am even more confused over how someone could be sued for using QuickClot (or any other external hemosttic) appropriately and correctly. Under what legal theory would you suggest there exists a legal liability in such a situation?

As a disclaimer: I am a medical professional with a background in emergency medicne/trauma care, aeromedical and critical care. I have used QuickClot in a clinical setting, but have not used either Celox or Hemcon.

HiCarry

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2010, 04:31:34 PM »
Former us army combat medic here. Few things caught my eye. Please dont use the gauze pads for burns, its gonna get stuck. Also please dont try to fix any collapsed lungs with a scalpel by yourselves in the field. I dont think youd be able to properly identify if it was actually a pneumo/hemothorax or how to properly treat it. Ive seen doctors have trouble doing this. This is if there is a chance of medivac/ambulance. If we are talking no chance of help then do what you gotta do
good advice. If indeed you need to decompress a hemo/pneumothorax in the face of extended EMS response, a scapel is a poor choice. A simple needle, or a purpose made device, would be much more preferable. For those interested, such a device would be inserted at the 2nd intercostal space.
 [/url]





« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 04:37:53 PM by HiCarry »

stikiller

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Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2010, 04:40:56 PM »
Quote
Folks I swore never to post agian but when I saw Quick Clot, I had to say something!  QC, depending the wound will burn incredible bad!  It take an incredible amount of effort from the surgeon standpoint to remove that stuff.  Chemical burn and wound is not a good combination.


QuickClot can, thru an exothermic reaction, cause skin burns. Generally these are cause by excessive blood or fluid on the area the granules are applied. That being said, in 2006, the formula was reworked and the temp of the exothermic reaction reduced to 106 degrees. The company also offers the product in a contained application (embedded onto a dressing). A 2007 article in the Journal of Trauma found that QuickClot was an effective tool and despite some minor concern over the debriedment of granules in definitive surgery, recommended its use. Furthermore, in the study cohort of 106 individuals, there were only 3 post-use burns and none were significant. 

Quote
Recommend using Celox  with an Israeli badge depending on the wound.  Its all METT.  We replaced all of our IFAKs (Individual First Aid Kits) with Celox A. during rotation in the Middle East.


All of the available external hemostatics work well. I do not believe any studies have demonstrated a definitive advantage of one over the other. As of 2007 (above referenced article published in 2008, but info from 2007 collection and evaluation period of the study) the US Army used/supplied Hemcon while the Navy/Marines issued QuickClot. A 2010 study in "Military Medicine" concluded all availble products worked equally well for inducing hemostasis in traumatic injuries. If you wish to recommend a particular product based on your opinion, I have no problem with that. If, however, you make claims about one product being superior to another, or suggest a legal liability in using one product over another, I personally would like to see some research on the subject.





Quote
That stuff is frickin nasty IMHO and I would hate for anyone to be sued if they were ever involved in an active shooter scenario while rendering buddy aid to a casualty

I am not sure what you mean by "nasty" and am even more confused over how someone could be sued for using QuickClot (or any other external hemosttic) appropriately and correctly. Under what legal theory would you suggest there exists a legal liability in such a situation?

As a disclaimer: I am a medical professional with a background in emergency medicne/trauma care, aeromedical and critical care. I have used QuickClot in a clinical setting, but have not used either Celox or Hemcon.






2A - This is a perfect example of what I stated in my PM to you. :thumbsup:

V/R

sk
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 04:49:44 PM by stikiller »

HiCarry

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2010, 05:00:41 PM »
stikiller: care to share your concerns? You seem to be trying to "say" something by your quote of my post and your statement "This is a perfect example of what I stated in my PM to you."

tonsofguns

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2010, 05:45:08 PM »
I would kindly ask you folks to take this directly to PMs. I started this thread to outline what a lay person would need to treat an injury while EMS is en route. I know there is concern over hemostatics, which is why I didn't mention carrying them. Same with a decomp. needle. To many variables especially to some people who have never heard the terms used before.
Please keep this subject on topic, the goal being simple equipment and procedures that folks untrained can manage.

I strongly recommend a first aid section for this site, and a proper thread to discuss the pros and cons of the techniques and tools on the market. :D

stikiller

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Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2010, 06:46:39 PM »
TOG: Sorry about that.  It was not my intent to see who was right.  I responded with unbrideled emotion when I saw the posting and for that my appologies.  If I came across as such my appologies once agian.  I am no mediacl expert which is why I have IMHO in most of my sentences however,  communication is a tricky thing for a simple person like myself.  Chalk it up to Internet Forrum Protocols.  I stand corrected.

Annonymity over the net is an nice thing, but it also allows anyone to be an expert and it alows anyone to make things seem bigger than they really need to be.  I'll definately keep my opnions to myself, and in the future.  I used to enjoy posting here but it gets to be a little too PC at times.   You are obviously right WRT to the right channels. .  Take Care!

SK

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« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 07:13:53 PM by stikiller »

Defend Hawaii

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 07:21:59 AM »
Quote
Folks I swore never to post agian but when I saw Quick Clot, I had to say something!  QC, depending the wound will burn incredible bad!  It take an incredible amount of effort from the surgeon standpoint to remove that stuff.  Chemical burn and wound is not a good combination.


QuickClot can, thru an exothermic reaction, cause skin burns. Generally these are cause by excessive blood or fluid on the area the granules are applied. That being said, in 2006, the formula was reworked and the temp of the exothermic reaction reduced to 106 degrees. The company also offers the product in a contained application (embedded onto a dressing). A 2007 article in the Journal of Trauma found that QuickClot was an effective tool and despite some minor concern over the debriedment of granules in definitive surgery, recommended its use. Furthermore, in the study cohort of 106 individuals, there were only 3 post-use burns and none were significant. 

Quote
Recommend using Celox  with an Israeli badge depending on the wound.  Its all METT.  We replaced all of our IFAKs (Individual First Aid Kits) with Celox A. during rotation in the Middle East.


All of the available external hemostatics work well. I do not believe any studies have demonstrated a definitive advantage of one over the other. As of 2007 (above referenced article published in 2008, but info from 2007 collection and evaluation period of the study) the US Army used/supplied Hemcon while the Navy/Marines issued QuickClot. A 2010 study in "Military Medicine" concluded all availble products worked equally well for inducing hemostasis in traumatic injuries. If you wish to recommend a particular product based on your opinion, I have no problem with that. If, however, you make claims about one product being superior to another, or suggest a legal liability in using one product over another, I personally would like to see some research on the subject.

Quote
That stuff is frickin nasty IMHO and I would hate for anyone to be sued if they were ever involved in an active shooter scenario while rendering buddy aid to a casualty

I am not sure what you mean by "nasty" and am even more confused over how someone could be sued for using QuickClot (or any other external hemosttic) appropriately and correctly. Under what legal theory would you suggest there exists a legal liability in such a situation?

As a disclaimer: I am a medical professional with a background in emergency medicne/trauma care, aeromedical and critical care. I have used QuickClot in a clinical setting, but have not used either Celox or Hemcon.


HICARRY, So you a nurse or an EMT???  What would you use for a gun shot wound??  Thanks...
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential
atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
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HiCarry

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2010, 10:59:25 AM »
TOG - I apologize if I want off topic...didn't mean to cause problems, but at the same time wanted to make sure that folks get the right info. All of the available hemostatics that approved by the FDA for battlefield use work well. There are some advantages and disadvantages to each of them, but they all essentially do what they are supposed to do.

My ears also perk up a bit when I hear things like "you'll get sued" for doing something, especially as it relates to first-aid provided at the scene of an accident. WIth the of Good Samaritan laws in Hawaii (and all the other states), the chances of someone getting a successful judgement against them for providing skills they have been trained to do are virtually nill. We do not, IMHO, need to be scaring otherwise willing individuals from providing care because of a false perception of liability exposure.

You are right about needing a first aid section.

Happy New Year.

Aloha

HiCarry

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2010, 11:03:19 AM »
Quote
HICARRY, So you a nurse or an EMT???  What would you use for a gun shot wound??  Thanks...

Paramedic and nurse. Depends on what type of wound....

tonsofguns

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2010, 12:49:37 AM »
Don't get me wrong, celox and such are great things to have in a bad situation. I didn't mention those items, which I should have, because there is a bit of controversy surrounding them and also because of the cost. Of course the cost is easy to save towards, but I know a lot of folks that don't even have a basic first aid kit when they are out and about.

I know what I have posted on page 1 isn't the newest high speed gear, really I was aiming for things that people with no kit might have scattered in the house, and I want to encourage them to put it together and keep it handy.

Now about getting sued, I can't comment on that but it wouldn't surprise me !!

Funtimes

Re: The Importance of First Aid Training; Building Your Gun Shot Wound Kit
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2010, 03:51:13 AM »
My oceanography instructor did  research in regards to the harvesting of chitosan here in Hawaii... good stuff and it is the just the tip of the iceberg!
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GZire

Former us army combat medic here. Few things caught my eye. Please dont use the gauze pads for burns, its gonna get stuck. Also please dont try to fix any collapsed lungs with a scalpel by yourselves in the field. I dont think youd be able to properly identify if it was actually a pneumo/hemothorax or how to properly treat it. Ive seen doctors have trouble doing this. This is if there is a chance of medivac/ambulance. If we are talking no chance of help then do what you gotta do

Guys if you don't know what you are doing and are not professionally trained/accredited, don't be doing the hero stuff (like cutting the guy and sticking a tube down his throat/windpipe). 

The Good Samaritan law will cover you for basic first aid and CPR if you are so trained.  You go beyond your training and you can be sued and/or charged.  While 1st Aid has changed a bit since I first got mine in '94 and CPR always changed..........one thing remained constant and that's the Good Samaritan Law.  This has always stayed consistent no matter who was teaching the class and regardless of it being Red Cross/Blue.