Deedy Trial - Injustice? (Read 234404 times)

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #120 on: July 12, 2013, 03:44:12 PM »
As you said: Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.

This totally sucks for the CCW Cause, no matter how we slice it.  >:(

If a trained federal agent does ....... what would a civilian do.......

No matter how you slice it, Deedy didn't save anybody's life and nobody was being attacked until he stepped into it.  ( IMO )

I know. LEO.
When's the last time an off-duty HPD ( who'd probably been drinking ) shot a guy for being a drunken ass. As KK said, they just beat the shit out of you. (without repercussion)

This fkg sucks all around. 
+1

GZire

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #121 on: July 12, 2013, 04:42:42 PM »
1. Witness ( skinny jeans hipster )  says he didn't feel threatened and didn't ask for help.  If it was terrostic threatening, arrest should have been made right there. No complainant though.
2. How disorderly can you be siting at a table ? And if he was deemed drunk and disorderly, arrest should have been made right there. Heck, should have been made before he sat down.
3. Failure to comply with what. Did Deedy thell him Shut the F Up and he didn't listen ? We don't see any ID come out at that point in the video.  Although he could have ID'd himself. Who would believe a guy who just tells you he's a "special agent".

Handcuffed. Yup. Arrested. Yup. Called out to beef and Shot ?   
Deedy never detained him, it appears he provoked him. No reports of him calling for HPD, who's on every block in Waikiki. Could have stepped out the door and literally yeld for HPD. ( Maybe not literally but you get the picture. )
Heck, as far as I know HPD can hold you for 48 hours without charges. ( I could be wrong though and you could possibly sue them for wrongful detainment ) 

Can't wait for the defense to present their case. This thread will get interesting.  :shaka:


You obviously have never been harassed by a cop.  After that come back and tell us that have what a cop can and cannot do.

GZire

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #122 on: July 12, 2013, 04:50:04 PM »
Yes I agree with you... It is an absurd expectation.

And you just made a point that it is absurd to expect a LEO to be fit for duty 24x7... especially if one had been drinking.

My point with this is sleep deprivation is a form of torture and at the very least it has a direct and measurable affect on your abilities, both mentally and physically.  Some guys can operate and operate with little to no affect due to alcohol, but some guys get severely affected when they don't get adequate rest.  I'm of the opinion that you sleep deprive some police and it's better than one beer?

Whatever the case is with alcohol/sleep deprivation the real issue at hand is;
"Did Deedy have sufficient reason to fear for his life, of great bodily injury, etc.?"


Anything beyond this simple question is smoke and mirrors.

GZire

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #123 on: July 12, 2013, 04:52:18 PM »
Hawaii has a law that can require a mandatory blood test for alcohol/drugs in a fatal car accident but not in a fatal shooting.
It would be interesting if someone invoked their 5th amendment right in fatal car crash with suspected negligent homicide.


What is the result of non compliance with the testing?  Isn't it you lose your license? 

I think if a drunk guy would give up his license or go to prison, he's going to give up his license.

Jl808

Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #124 on: July 12, 2013, 04:56:29 PM »

"Did Deedy have sufficient reason to fear for his life, of great bodily injury, etc.?"

Anything beyond this simple question is smoke and mirrors.

I disagree.  With Deedy claiming self defense, he has already done the prosecutor's job by admitting that he has killed somebody.

The question is, "was he justified in his use of deadly force?" and will the jury buy it.  That is the case that Deedy's defense attorney needs to make.  If someone picks a fight with someone, gets beat up and gets scared for his life, he is not justified in the use of deadly force, because in that case, he would be the bad guy. In Deedy's case, the video doesn't seem to support that he had no other options regarding shooting Elderts.

It seems his only other card is the LEO card. But even that seems kinda iffy. The other question is: "was Deedy acting in the way a LEO would act in that situation?"

I agree that there seems to be nothing good that will come out of this for CCW's case.  In this instance, the only thing that could come out of this is that the LEO guy is in the wrong. Would a CCW'd Elderts have made this outcome better?  Thinking about this whole case makes me mad... Firearms and alcohol really does not mix.

I didn't watch the trial today but bringing a racism discussion into this is kinda sad to hear.  I don't think bringing the racism thing into this will bring about justice / a fair trial for Deedy but will only muddy the discussion, make this into a circus, bring out the prejudices of people and further ethnic/racial tensions.

At the very least, I hope that everyone can stay mature and objective about this and learn from the mistakes that people made that night.

I am curious to hear what Deedy's defense will say.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 05:59:33 PM by Jl808 »
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moosed

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #125 on: July 12, 2013, 05:04:17 PM »
.
When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state".

macsak

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #126 on: July 12, 2013, 05:46:03 PM »
penalty is the same whether you test positive or you do not allow test
only difference is, if you take the test, they can PROVE you were drunk
therefore, i was always told to refuse the test if you think you will fail


What is the result of non compliance with the testing?  Isn't it you lose your license? 

I think if a drunk guy would give up his license or go to prison, he's going to give up his license.

pj_benn

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #127 on: July 12, 2013, 05:57:11 PM »
" Nobody runs back at someone after they've been shot at, it's not human
nature."
you served in the French army?

Kingkeoni

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #128 on: July 12, 2013, 06:16:11 PM »
" Nobody runs back at someone after they've been shot at, it's not human
nature."
you served in the French army?

I'm talking about the civilian sector son.

I know where I've been and what I've done.
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

HUCKLEBUCK

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #129 on: July 12, 2013, 07:03:32 PM »

That's why I stopped watching this: the prosecution's arguments make no sense.

Remember a few years back, when the 'white' sheriff was shot by the local guy, who had an illegal firearm? I find it interesting that case never garnered this much local publicity, nor did I see any of the people 'demanding justice' when a when the white guy was shot. It's evident that there is extreme prejudice, as well as underlying racial issues, in regards to deedy's case.

P.S. There are already individuals on social media networks claiming that 'deedy will receive justice, one way or another'; wonder if this is going to be Hawaii's Zimmerman trial that may launch 'riots'  :rofl:
The sheriff from the mainland? if that one, yeah I remember that. I also remember wanting to vomit when local news ran video of kealoha giving praise and thanks for the fact that an off duty mainland LEO was carrying his firearm....all while being rabidly opposed to civilian CC!  And I don't know brah, but I would keep off the streets when the verdict is read if Deedy is acquitted!

HUCKLEBUCK

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #130 on: July 12, 2013, 07:25:50 PM »
ATTENTION.......ATTENTION.....
I want to plead all white haole in Hawaii all white Hispanics in Florida.....please....PLEASE.....NO RIOTING....please don't rob, loot, pillage, murder, rape, or burn your neighborhood homes and businesses down if Deedy and Zimmerman are convicted!  NOT that I'm subliminally suggesting they DO so.....and NOT that I'm trying to coerce the juries into rendering an acquittal for fear of what WHITES and white hispanics WOULD do that if they ARE found guilty..................and let me just say.....that Deedy could have been my brother.....no no....i mean....Zimmerman could have been my cousin....well....you get the point....

Q

>:D
« Reply #131 on: July 12, 2013, 07:46:30 PM »
 >:D
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:47:44 PM by Q »

pastordennis

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #132 on: July 12, 2013, 08:42:52 PM »
IF DEEDY GETS CONVICTED IT WILL BE A SAD DAY FOR LAWR ENFORCEMENT. It'll be "free for all off" for off duty lawr enforcement. I hope he gets set free. He( "the DOA guy") picked on the wrong guy at the wrong time and got his a$$ kilt. The bully got what he deserved. Too many times I've seen locals do the same to lawr enforcement. Time to stop. They deserve our respect and honor. Any dis-agreements?

Jl808

Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #133 on: July 12, 2013, 09:15:34 PM »
Thanks for that reminder, pastordennis.

First, I am always grateful to and truly respect the people of Honolulu PD and (from my own personal interactions with them) think they are some of the best police force in the US. I count myself fortunate that we have the police force we have. I can see why mainland PD like to recruit police from Hawaii.

I'm not sure if mainland PDs are the same caliber as our Honolulu PD.  Even then, I do respect the position, and think that even with the shitty work they have to do, PDs in general do the best they can with what they have, human imperfections and all. 

As for Deedy, I pray that the trial is fair and hope that the truth, and maybe even forgiveness and healing prevails for all those involved and affected. (Yes, one can hope.)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 09:26:57 PM by Jl808 »
I think, therefore I am armed.
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The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #134 on: July 12, 2013, 10:43:28 PM »

You obviously have never been harassed by a cop.  After that come back and tell us that have what a cop can and cannot do.

I never said can and cannot do, I implied should/would do.

When is the last time you got harassed by a cop in Hawaii (HPD) ?   Last couple times I did ( not necessarily harassed but straightened out ) it was yes sir, no sir and thank you sir.  Otherwise I would have got my ass kicked or arrested...
But not shot.

What is the result of non compliance with the testing?  Isn't it you lose your license? 
I think if a drunk guy would give up his license or go to prison, he's going to give up his license.

Hawaii State law allows them to forcefully take a blood test from you if a death occurs in the car accident. It's not your choice. We're not talking about DUI. It's negligent homicide.
 
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 11:07:54 PM by aieahound »

Archangel

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #135 on: July 12, 2013, 10:59:17 PM »
Hawaii State law allows them to forcefully take a blood test from you if a death occurs in the accident. It's not your choice. This is not DUI. It's negligent homicide.
Thats because everyone gives implied consent when obtaining a drivers license. They just do it anytime there is an injury/fatality so they have evidence for what they'll charge you with. But legally they can forcibly take a sample anytime someone is in custody whether someone gets hurt or not.

Aiea78

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #136 on: July 12, 2013, 11:03:27 PM »
Thats because everyone gives implied consent when obtaining a drivers license. They just do it anytime there is an injury/fatality so they have evidence for what they'll charge you with. But legally they can forcibly take a sample anytime someone is in custody whether someone gets hurt or not.

O/T but related to this, did you read about the guy (have to check which state) refused the test, was strapped down by hospital staff then catherized for urine by the officer?  Matter of fact there was a lot of mishandling going on.  cough.   

Got it - Oregon:
http://www.infowars.com/report-bicyclist-flees-country-after-oregon-police-force-catheterization/
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 11:09:37 PM by Aiea78 »
Assault Rifle? What I have here is an Anti-Assault Rifle.
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Funtimes

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #137 on: July 12, 2013, 11:11:20 PM »
When is the last time you got harassed by a cop in Hawaii (HPD) ?   Last couple times I did ( not necessarily harassed but straightened out ) it was yes sir, no sir and thank you sir.  Otherwise I would have got my ass kicked or arrested...

I've had an officer try to break into my vehicle at a checkpoint. He called me racial slurs, was cursing and yelling, and tried to pry my window / door open. It was an interesting experience.

Funtimes

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #138 on: July 12, 2013, 11:12:22 PM »
But who is the guy in the black top, blue shorts that was fighting with Elderts by the garbage can???  There's the key. What predicated that!?  At 4:14 in the first video segment Elderts got him around neck (good position to deliver a knee btw) that when all this goes down and Deedy physically intervenes and is knocked to the ground.  Shit goes completely sideways from there.  Black top blue shorts guy walks in at 2:57 on video part 2, who dat?

That's another Agent if I recall.

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #139 on: July 12, 2013, 11:22:25 PM »
I've had an officer try to break into my vehicle at a checkpoint. He called me racial slurs, was cursing and yelling, and tried to pry my window / door open. It was an interesting experience.

What did you do to piss him off like that and how did you react ?

I'm seriously curious and, less seriously, Why didn't he just pull you over and detain you for 48 hours and put a catheter in you ?

you're lucky you weren't shot. 

Are we straying off topic ?  :stopjack: