Deedy Trial - Injustice? (Read 236124 times)

ImKu

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #280 on: July 17, 2013, 02:40:07 PM »
I wish I had those stories...

All I have are the 'mistook the white Hawaiian guy for a haole' stories.  :(

Good to know I'm not the only one...  It's especially entertaining when the person calling me a haole' isn't even Hawaiian.

Back to topic, I think the defense is going to have an easy time discrediting Byrd off the what has come forth so far.
The mind acts like an enemy for those who do not control it.
- Bhagavad Gita

Q

.
« Reply #281 on: July 17, 2013, 05:59:10 PM »
.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 10:57:54 PM by Q »

ImKu

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #282 on: July 17, 2013, 07:54:08 PM »

Last mistake was that bow tie.  :rofl:


I thought that was his first mistake...  :rofl:
The mind acts like an enemy for those who do not control it.
- Bhagavad Gita

pj_benn

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #283 on: July 17, 2013, 07:59:57 PM »
Damn fun. Guess that kinda stuff comes with the territory ah?

Q: you know if the marine was for deedy you'd be all over his nuts lol. Prob call anyone who didn't side with/believe him anti patriotic/military and post all kinda support the troops stuff  :shaka:

macsak

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #284 on: July 17, 2013, 08:02:04 PM »
does anyone else think that the first problem in this whole case was deedy's co-worker explaining to him that f'in haole was the same as the n-word?
if it wasn't for that advice, deedy probably would not have been carrying, and he wouldn't have over-reacted so much to elderts

I thought that was his first mistake...  :rofl:

mnpfamily

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #285 on: July 17, 2013, 08:57:37 PM »
I don't know about y'all, but it seems to me that a big problem is what it actually looks like.  Two guys who had been drinking got into a fight, one apparently was legally carrying a firearm, got knocked on his behind, and decided to use his firearm to to even the odds.  Seems to be exactly what all the antis said would happen if the "may issue" CCW in Hi is changed to reflect what many of us want..  The fact that it was a LEO doesn't exactly help the matter.  If he was cream of the crop, what's going to happen if  "regular" people are allowed to carry?
Yes, I realize that as an LEO he may have had a duty to act, but the State Dept. must have guidelines regarding carrying a firearm while out drinking.

Bunker

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #286 on: July 17, 2013, 09:17:19 PM »
Not taking any sides but my observations thus far:

Assumption: Deedy will not be proved to be legal intoxicated (no sobriety test or BAT), therefore the case hinges on whether the use of deadly forced was justified as a private citizen claiming self-defense.

On March 11 Deedy's lawyers withdrew the request to dismiss the case on the basis that he was acting as a federal agent at the time of the incident and said the killing was in self-defense. Therefore, he was not acting in a law enforcement capacity but as a private citizen claiming self-defense. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is my understanding and I've read it from multiple sources...private citizen and not acting in a law enforcement capacity. That makes a big difference. He is also being charged with felonious use of a firearm in the commission of a felony.

LEOs may use deadly force in specific circumstances when they are trying to enforce the law. Private citizens may use deadly force in certain circumstances in self-defense. The rules governing the use of deadly force for LEOs are different from those for citizens. However, Deedy was not acting in a law enforcement capacity at the time of the incident.

If he was prosecuted for murder or manslaughter as a LEO (which he is not), he would be able to claim as a defense that he complied with the statutory standard for using deadly force. Once this defense has been properly raised at trial, the state would have to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt in order to get a conviction. To meet the initial burden of proof to establish this defense the state must present sufficient evidence to raise a reasonable doubt in the mind of a rational juror as to whether the officer's use of deadly force was justified. The jury must first determine whether the defendant honestly believed that the use of deadly force was necessary in the circumstances. If the jury determines that the defendant in fact had believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, the jury must make a further determination as to whether that belief was reasonable, from the perspective of a reasonable LEO in the defendant's circumstances.

BTW...a DSS special agent stationed in the United States, who is not otherwise in any way legally disqualified from carrying a firearm, is authorized to carry approved firearms on and off duty in accordance with U.S. Department of State Deadly Force and Firearms Policy, approved by U.S. Attorney General Eric H. Holder, Jr. on November 29, 2011. Just in case anyone wondered.

macsak

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #287 on: July 17, 2013, 09:53:03 PM »
here's the thing
he's claiming to be able to carry since he's an LEO, but when he shoots someone, he's a civilian?
who cannot be carrying at mickey d's
these two claims do not match up

Not taking any sides but my observations thus far:

Assumption: Deedy will not be proved to be legal intoxicated (no sobriety test or BAT), therefore the case hinges on whether the use of deadly forced was justified as a private citizen claiming self-defense.

On March 11 Deedy's lawyers withdrew the request to dismiss the case on the basis that he was acting as a federal agent at the time of the incident and said the killing was in self-defense. Therefore, he was not acting in a law enforcement capacity but as a private citizen claiming self-defense. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is my understanding and I've read it from multiple sources...private citizen and not acting in a law enforcement capacity. That makes a big difference. He is also being charged with felonious use of a firearm in the commission of a felony.

LEOs may use deadly force in specific circumstances when they are trying to enforce the law. Private citizens may use deadly force in certain circumstances in self-defense. The rules governing the use of deadly force for LEOs are different from those for citizens. However, Deedy was not acting in a law enforcement capacity at the time of the incident.

If he was prosecuted for murder or manslaughter as a LEO (which he is not), he would be able to claim as a defense that he complied with the statutory standard for using deadly force. Once this defense has been properly raised at trial, the state would have to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt in order to get a conviction. To meet the initial burden of proof to establish this defense the state must present sufficient evidence to raise a reasonable doubt in the mind of a rational juror as to whether the officer's use of deadly force was justified. The jury must first determine whether the defendant honestly believed that the use of deadly force was necessary in the circumstances. If the jury determines that the defendant in fact had believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, the jury must make a further determination as to whether that belief was reasonable, from the perspective of a reasonable LEO in the defendant's circumstances.

BTW...a DSS special agent stationed in the United States, who is not otherwise in any way legally disqualified from carrying a firearm, is authorized to carry approved firearms on and off duty in accordance with U.S. Department of State Deadly Force and Firearms Policy, approved by U.S. Attorney General Eric H. Holder, Jr. on November 29, 2011. Just in case anyone wondered.

Bunker

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #288 on: July 17, 2013, 10:01:30 PM »
here's the thing
he's claiming to be able to carry since he's an LEO, but when he shoots someone, he's a civilian?
who cannot be carrying at mickey d's
these two claims do not match up
I believe him carrying, which he clearly is authorized by DSS policy but in this incidence, he is not acting in a law enforcement capacity (he tried to use that defense initially) because he is not enforcing a law, but rather a private citizen in a beef. He can carry his firearm no matter what but the situation dictates what capacity he is acting in.

BTW...my father is retired LEO and he never left home without a firearm.

Q

.
« Reply #289 on: July 17, 2013, 11:12:10 PM »
.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 10:58:06 PM by Q »

Q

.
« Reply #290 on: July 17, 2013, 11:21:34 PM »
.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 10:58:13 PM by Q »

Jl808

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #291 on: July 18, 2013, 05:51:32 AM »
KITV4 Crime specialist takes stand in Deedy trial

I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Kingkeoni

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #292 on: July 18, 2013, 05:52:01 AM »
My 2 cents on this case.

A) It takes 2 to tango.

I believe that Deedy should have shown greater self control than to get involved in a minor altercation.
I believe he got involved too early. There was no physical violence yet, that I saw, that required LEO intervention.
Furthermore I believe that Deedy is cocky. I believe he had/has a little chip on his shoulder because of his position.

As far as  Elderts is concerned, I believe he is/was a punk. He looks like a punk, he acted like a punk and it seems
he was looking for trouble that night.
His body language toward the skinny haole was aggressive and even without sound in the video it's obvious he was harassing that guy.
He just picked the wrong guy to false crack that night.

B) Either one could have deescalated the situation that night.

I'm a local boy. Born and raised here. I completely understand beating the shit out of some punk who desperately deserves it.
Hawaii is a great place to "lick haoles" because there is no CCW. As I was growing up, it was a common thing to go to Waikiki
looking for fights with haoles and popolos. It was as much a part of local culture as shave ice.
Elderts was determined to scrap as soon as Deedy opened his mouth.

Deedy had the opportunity to walk away on more than one occasion. His body language in the video was an aggressive body language.
He kicked off his slippers before any blows were thrown which tells me that he was ready and determined to fight before any blows were thrown.

I don't know who was right or wrong here.
As far as I'm concerned, let the judicial system do its thing.
While it may not be perfect, I honestly believe its the best answer to situations like this.
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

stangzilla

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #293 on: July 18, 2013, 07:48:28 AM »
what about the use of less than lethal options?

I can see the logic if you are faced with immenent life threatening danger, you need to have lethal force.
but what about using things like a tazer, mace/pepper spray, etc.  especially with an unarmed assailant.
I am no expert in LEO protocol, but arent they trained to use these as well?

GZire

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #294 on: July 18, 2013, 08:06:00 AM »
does anyone else think that the first problem in this whole case was deedy's co-worker explaining to him that f'in haole was the same as the n-word?
if it wasn't for that advice, deedy probably would not have been carrying, and he wouldn't have over-reacted so much to elderts


I would have to disagree with this.  I think Deedy is carrying regardless.  Over reaction or not we really don't know since we weren't there.  Video is choppy, sound is non existent, witnesses are all saying different things, it's just chaos..........pretty much on par with what one would think.

Different people view/take things differently.  I've done quite a few accident investigations on my projects and usually the things people say about what they thought happened differ.  The major points may/may not be the same, but the little stuff usually is different.

FWIW we say Deedy may be over-reacting, but again we weren't there.  As some point out LEO's are trained to go over and above to de-escalate situations as one means of addressing people.  Two examples.
1).  One friend (HPD) used to serve warrants a lot.  One time he tells me of this guy (not armed as far as they knew) not cooperating.  Two guys him (about 5'-8"/170 and his partner 6'+/250+) and his partner.  His partner couldn't handle the guy physically in a scuffle, but as soon as my friend stuck the muzzle of his service pistol on the guys head........instant cooperation.
2).  Another guy (Sherrifs) was telling us how when you talk to people and they don't cooperate, they bump things up.  So in the case of a person talking back, they go command voice, they raise the volume of their voice, and they may start adding in things like "Do what I say m-effer NOW!!!"

So do we know if Deedy was doing this?  Nope and neither do the others there.


Just got to let things play out and see what happens.

GZire

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #295 on: July 18, 2013, 08:10:13 AM »
what about the use of less than lethal options?

I can see the logic if you are faced with immenent life threatening danger, you need to have lethal force.
but what about using things like a tazer, mace/pepper spray, etc.  especially with an unarmed assailant.
I am no expert in LEO protocol, but arent they trained to use these as well?

Pepper spray/mace no good.  The point at which these guys were rolling around and Elderts may allegedly have been reaching for Deedy's pistol...........nope way beyond less lethal.

Straight up front would it be a good idea? I don't know maybe, but then again some people really don't get affected by pepper spray and it may have completely escalated the situation instead of calming it down.

Tough for us to say because we weren't there.  Even if we were, for certain all of us here would disagree on what should have been done............there wouldn't be one concensus.

Funtimes

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #296 on: July 18, 2013, 08:31:52 AM »
what about the use of less than lethal options?

I can see the logic if you are faced with immenent life threatening danger, you need to have lethal force.
but what about using things like a tazer, mace/pepper spray, etc.  especially with an unarmed assailant.
I am no expert in LEO protocol, but arent they trained to use these as well?

Does he have bat slippers that had all this inside of it?
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
HDF on Facebook
Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

Jl808

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #297 on: July 18, 2013, 08:39:05 AM »
Good points guys. Next time there is a pissing match, someone should just bring out a less than lethal tactical ruler or two as suggested earlier.
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

stangzilla

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #298 on: July 18, 2013, 08:47:21 AM »
Does he have bat slippers that had all this inside of it?


apparently his bat slippers could only fit a handgun.
maybe if he put on some pants he would have a place to put it. 


like i said, i'm not an expert.  and I'm sure you know more than me about personal defense and CCW.
but maybe if people also carry less than lethal option along with their CCW, they would have another option before going to the lethal one.
you could hit them with the tazer or pepper spray at a distance, then if necessary go to the gun.
but if the distance is already closed or is already escalated then you would have to go to the final option.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 08:59:14 AM by stangzilla »

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #299 on: July 18, 2013, 09:56:51 AM »
Does he have bat slippers that had all this inside of it?

apparently his bat slippers could only fit a handgun.
maybe if he put on some pants he would have a place to put it.