Aloha,

Aside from shotguns, what carbine and caliber would be ideal for home defense with respect to Hawaii Laws and the dangers of over-penetration?

Mahalo,
Kuleana

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7.62x54R

+1

7.62x54R

Oh, I forgot to mention; I only live in a place with plywood walls, not reinforced cinder block.

Supposedly, 223 soft or hollow points have less penetration than pistol bullets.

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If I "had" to use a carbine I'd go with my 300 BLK and some 220gr subsonic rounds.

Pretty much designed for CQB and hard stops without over penetration.

Right now my "go to" is the 1911 in .45 by the nightstand. Less penetration than a 9mm due to less muzzle velocity. Hollow points, of course.

Have to agree with Q, if I had the time to fetch it out and load it, the Saiga with 00 buck would be the best choice.

US Carbine, Caliber .30, M1

It has the added advantage of NOT being black.....

Any caliber suited for personal defense will penetrate multiple walls in a home. So there is always a risk of over-penetration.

Recent studies have shown that low weight, high velocity rounds such as the 5.56/.223 will penetrate fewer walls, but will still absolutely go thru more than one. Essentially, this is because it reacts the same way as it is supposed when hitting any target. It begins to yaw, tumble and fragment almost immediately on impact.

The best thing you can do, is pick a platform you are the most comfortable with, and then learn all the "clear" shooting lanes in your home.

Here is my opinion like it or not.
My definition of home defense is the bump in the night, or a would be intruder.

Those of you who know me know that I prefer pistols for this purpose.
why?
1. Easy to carry and maneuver in close encounters.
2. Easy to purchase and install a quick-access solution.
3. Easy to conceal if you have to investigate outside your house.

Long guns have none of these advantages.

As bigeyebrows pointed out, anything goes through drywall, so you have to be careful, regardless.

The big downside to pistols is that they are much more difficult to master for defensive use.

I'm with oldfart on this one.  Choice of anything for home defense has a lot of variables.  The "simple" ones being construction type, size and layout of the home, etc.  I live in a condo and it's pretty small with a lot of 90 degree turns to negotiate.  Not very good for a long gun.  I've "tried".    

Then there's familiarity, ease of use (under stress), etc.  I can readily have a handgun ready at my bedside or very close.  I have much more training and trigger time with handguns than any of my long guns.  Yes, long guns are ballistically superior, but like anything in life, there's a balance.

If a long gun was the only option, I'd have to go with an AR with soft points or other hollow-point ammunition.  It's what I'm familiar with. 

I am not a fan of shotguns for home defense.  However, a LOT of that has to do with them being the firearm that I have probably the least experience and time shooting.  Even then, ammo capacity would be a key consideration.  I think the average shotgun has a 5-7 round capacity, or 10ish with extensions.  I am not a fan of Saiga or other magazine fed shotguns.  I've just experienced and have seen in training too many problems with them.  I've even seen people short stroke pumps under stress (multigun matches and training). 

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US Carbine, Caliber .30, M1

+1

A saiga or VEPR-12 is exactly the same platform as any AK, only in 12ga form. If you can run an AK, you can run a saiga, and if you can run an AR and AK, you can run a VEPR.

The amount of effort and money you put into improving your firearm to function optimally is no different than putting money into an AR or AK to make it function at it's best. There are many firearms that must be worked on and fine tuned to function even properly, so I don't see why this would be different for a 12ga AK platform as well.

If you use the aguila short 12ga slugs, you can literally get up to 20 rounds or more in a pump shotgun, depending on the tube size. That is 20 rounds of a bullet with 1oz of weight, that is bigger than a .50 in size.

Like you said: it all boils down to training and if you enjoy it. If I liked AKs (which I do), then that would be my primary; I just find the 12ga to be the most versatile system of all weapon types.

Roger!    I'd say that's a big part for sure! 

I wasn't saying for anyone not to use them, just sharing my experiences (unfortunately bad) with them.  So that has very much soured my opinions of certain aspects, which others of course may have had opposite experiences. 

I just have a lot more time on ARs, but I have an Arsenal AK that I really do need more time on.  I think AKs are really fun and good guns, just that I honestly haven't had much time on them.  Ammo pricing is awesome.  They are seemingly readily available again.  They have a long history of use and many other great qualities. 

As for the Saiga et al shotgun versions, I've just seen so many problems, that I don't really see with the 7.62, 5.45, etc versions of AKs.  Not sure what amount of money and effort was put into the ones that had problems though, so that could be critical.  On two occasions, I've seen the piston rod fail (cracked completely through) on two Saigas.  I think we were shooting mostly bird and a limited amount of buck and slug.  I don't recall spending that much on ammo, so we couldn't have shot more than say 20 of each.  Another thing about the Saigas (others as well) were problems with the magazines.  Feeding issues, magazines not quite seating on full mags, some other quirk about reloading.  These were all other people's guns, so maybe they just didn't tune them properly. 

+1

How about SKSs?   

US Carbine, Caliber .30, M1

It has the added advantage of NOT being black.....

+1

How about SKSs?   

An SKS is 7.62x39 the same as a traditional AK it is a few inches longer. A SKS in unmodified in its original configuration does not have a detachable magazine.

SKS length over all (for my type 56): 40"
My AR: 32.5-36" depending on stock position
My AK (SAM7R-61): 36.5"

The US Carbine, Caliber .30, M1 that you +1 to Tom's +1 is 35.6" close to an AK with a Warsaw Pact length stock at 35".

My 2¢ is that I'd probably get to my Governor first and then assess the situation and change up armament if required and arm other family members as required. My wife's go to is a 20ga. 870.

An SKS is 7.62x39 the same as a traditional AK it is a few inches longer. A SKS in unmodified in its original configuration does not have a detachable magazine.

SKS length over all (for my type 56): 40"
My AR: 32.5-36" depending on stock position
My AK (SAM7R-61): 36.5"

The US Carbine, Caliber .30, M1 that you +1 to Tom's +1 is 35.6" close to an AK with a Warsaw Pact length stock at 35".

My 2¢ is that I'd probably get to my Governor first and then assess the situation and change up armament if required and arm other family members as required. My wife's go to is a 20ga. 870.

Thanks for the info, but I was more referring to the fact that he owns one. . . or more 

Thanks for the info, but I was more referring to the fact that he owns one. . . or more 

No problem. Oh I wasn't following were you were going.... Inside information on Tom's SKS(s) gotcha

Any caliber suited for personal defense will penetrate multiple walls in a home. So there is always a risk of over-penetration.

Recent studies have shown that low weight, high velocity rounds such as the 5.56/.223 will penetrate fewer walls, but will still absolutely go thru more than one. Essentially, this is because it reacts the same way as it is supposed when hitting any target. It begins to yaw, tumble and fragment almost immediately on impact.

The best thing you can do, is pick a platform you are the most comfortable with, and then learn all the "clear" shooting lanes in your home.

This is the most correct answer.  Over penetration is most often looked at incorrectly or misunderstood when it comes to defensive caliber choices.  Anything that is effective at stopping a bad person from doing bad things is going to penetrate multiple layers of walls.  Long guns are the better options from a ballistic efficacy standpoint.  The rest is training and familiarity with the weapon and tactics to employ within a home or structure.