I never called you names or stereotyped you or anyone else. That's Flapp's game because obviously he likes being angry and taking it out on other people.

My criticism is aimed at the predatory aspects of the organization and the larger political structure that has turned it from a DOD to the world's most expensive Jobs Program with the unfortunate side effects of death, destruction, and national financial insolvency.

It's a good thing that you were able to get an education, but why is that version of socialism acceptable but offering it to everyone is distasteful and/or unAmerican?

These are the questions that need to be asked in a free society.

What version of socialism? The military, ironically is a socialist organization but it is a volunteer force. Everyone has an opportunity to join if you have the right physical and character traits.

I never called you names or stereotyped you or anyone else. That's Flapp's game because obviously he likes being angry and taking it out on other people.

My criticism is aimed at the predatory aspects of the organization and the larger political structure that has turned it from a DOD to the world's most expensive Jobs Program with the unfortunate side effects of death, destruction, and national financial insolvency.

It's a good thing that you were able to get an education, but why is that version of socialism acceptable but offering it to everyone is distasteful and/or unAmerican?

These are the questions that need to be asked in a free society.

Since it's obvious you've never served, let me address the Socialism comment.

Bullshit!  When you accept an educational opportunity from the military, you incur a service commitment.  If you separate before that time, under most conditions, you'd be required to pay the government back for the money they spent on your education.

I received a 4-year college scholarship from the Air Force right after high school.  My contract required that I graduate on time, attain the degree I originally stated I would, became a commissioned officer upon graduation in the reserves, and repay them with 4 years active duty service, and 2 years in the reserves.  If I failed to fulfill my contract, I may have been required to enter the Air Force and complete my 4 year commitment as an enlisted airman.

If that's your idea of Socialism, then that's a new one on me!  I entered into those agreements with full understanding of my duties and consequences of failing to live up to them.

I also attended Squadron Officer's School in residence.  That required another 2 years service commitment.

It's your choice completely to join, agree to the terms or walk away.  Sounds more like capitalism to me.

The fact that they call it "service" should set off alarms right there, Comrade.

Also it's a nice trick getting people to "volunteer" instead of drafting them. That way the rich kids can stay home and the poor kids don't have any other realistic options.

It would be exponentially cheaper to just give everyone free college and a universal basic income. Plus someone would actually be held responsible when billions of dollars go missing.

The fact that they call it "service" should set off alarms right there, Comrade.

Also it's a nice trick getting people to "volunteer" instead of drafting them. That way the rich kids can stay home and the poor kids don't have any other realistic options.

It would be exponentially cheaper to just give everyone free college and a universal basic income. Plus someone would actually be held responsible when billions of dollars go missing.

Service sets off an alarm?  LOL!  You're ridiculous.

It's called service because the volunteers who join do so to serve their country.  Those who make a career of the military do so most times because they feel it as a calling.  It's a concept you just can't explain to someone who thinks the universe revolves around them.

The Constitution doesn't prescribe very many duties of our government, but one that is in there is to provide for the common defense -- to raise and equip armies.  In other words, the taxes we pay are not for college and universal basic income so you can surf all day.  It's in part raised to ensure we have a strong military.  That way, we won't have our enemies taking over the country and turning it into a true Socialist hellhole.

Service sets off an alarm?  LOL!  You're ridiculous.

It's called service because the volunteers who join do so to serve their country.  Those who make a career of the military do so most times because they feel it as a calling.  It's a concept you just can't explain to someone who thinks the universe revolves around them.

The Constitution doesn't prescribe very many duties of our government, but one that is in there is to provide for the common defense -- to raise and equip armies.  In other words, the taxes we pay are not for college and universal basic income so you can surf all day.  It's in part raised to ensure we have a strong military.  That way, we won't have our enemies taking over the country and turning it into a true Socialist hellhole.

Service is a description that hides the true meaning of what's going on, hoping to disguise a socialist contract with patriotism. I'm sure there are some people out there who really want to make a difference and think that joining the military is the best way to do that, but most of the vets I know who are being honest with themselves are eager to express in no uncertain terms that our defense institutions and the industries they support are highly dysfunctional and have turned parasitic on the taxpayer base on which they depend. The suicide, rape, and substance abuse rates aren't sky high because of an over-abundance of support networks and career opportunities. Having people surf all day would mean a whole lot less physical and psychological damage (reduced costs), and people naturally gravitate toward meaningful work especially if there's an opportunity to improve their situation.

Also you should read more about the Founding Fathers' opinions on the danger of standing armies.

Service is a description that hides the true meaning of what's going on, hoping to disguise a socialist contract with patriotism. I'm sure there are some people out there who really want to make a difference and think that joining the military is the best way to do that, but most of the vets I know who are being honest with themselves are eager to express in no uncertain terms that our defense institutions and the industries they support are highly dysfunctional and have turned parasitic on the taxpayer base on which they depend. The suicide, rape, and substance abuse rates aren't sky high because of an over-abundance of support networks and career opportunities. Having people surf all day would mean a whole lot less physical and psychological damage (reduced costs), and people naturally gravitate toward meaningful work especially if there's an opportunity to improve their situation.

Also you should read more about the Founding Fathers' opinions on the danger of standing armies.

The Founding Fathers didn't live in the world we do.  There was no NATO. There was no UN.  The US was not a nuclear super-power, nor did the US have the threats we face today from terrorism and unhinged leaders who just recently developed a nuclear capability.

You should learn to update your arguments to exist in the real world.

You can bloviate all you want about your opinion of "service" and why using a specific word that's been used for centuries means something because you say so.Unless there is some consensus by people who really understand the etymology of words to back up your conclusions, it's just more anti-military rhetoric from someone who obviously hates anything to do with the military.

 

On the contrary I'm currently restoring a military vehicle. They make great platforms for projects because they are socialist built. Dirt cheap and no debt  required. No fancy bells and whistles. No squishy comfort or flashy looks. No falling apart after 10 years by design and forcing you to run out and buy a new one. Just beautiful rugged simplicity. In a lot of respects they are far superior to the forced offerings of the so-called free market.

On the contrary I'm currently restoring a military vehicle. They make great platforms for projects because they are socialist built. Dirt cheap and no debt  required. No fancy bells and whistles. No squishy comfort or flashy looks. No falling apart after 10 years by design and forcing you to run out and buy a new one. Just beautiful rugged simplicity. In a lot of respects they are far superior to the forced offerings of the so-called free market.

You've never seen the procurement process for the government?  if you had, you'd know it's not even close to socialist.

The government doesn't commandeer the means of production.  They advertise for proposals and pick the least cost proposal that satisfies the requirements.  If all goes well, the PRIVATELY OWNED contractor makes money on not only delivery of the vehicles, but also parts, maintenance, upgrades and follow-on contracts for more vehicles.  A socialist process would involve the government forcing a company to make their vehicles at a price they dictate.

What version of socialism? The military, ironically is a socialist organization but it is a volunteer force. Everyone has an opportunity to join if you have the right physical and character traits.

You may have identified the root cause of the animosity toward our military/

A socialist process would involve the government forcing a company to make their vehicles at a price they dictate.

I think that's your problem right there. You are confusing socialism with totalitarianism. There are all different types and levels. Our military is just one version on the theme, along with police and firefighters etc.

If accusing me of hating the military because I have valid criticism then that's your prerogative. My liberal friends think my views on immigration are racist because I don't want to let everyone in. Same political correctness, different extreme.

You may have identified the root cause of the animosity toward our military/

sometimes the job picks the person. Some are cut out for it, some aren't Basic military training is just the beginning.
Other civilian jobs have similar reqs. Not everyone is cut out to be a police officer, firefighter or EMT.

I think that's your problem right there. You are confusing socialism with totalitarianism. There are all different types and levels. Our military is just one version on the theme, along with police and firefighters etc.

If accusing me of hating the military because I have valid criticism then that's your prerogative. My liberal friends think my views on immigration are racist because I don't want to let everyone in. Same political correctness, different extreme.

I'm so glad I have you on here to tell me what my problems are.  You're such a generous person to voluntarily analyze me and provide a professional assessment of my shortcomings.

Your problem is you think labels actually apply to everything in the world.  Things are not so simple.

But a lot of people have a need to label others just to have some way of generalizing them.  It's much easier then getting to know the person as an individual.

I work with officers and enlisted. Like any group or cross section of society, there are folks from across the spectrum. Some that are super intelligent and could be CEO level in many companies to those with seemingly pebbles for brains that i wouldn’t trust boiling water for tea. To generalize the military as preying on those with no other options, don’t know any better, are duped, etc is extremely short sighted and ignorant.

Just because some people sign up who had options doesn't mean that everyone came from the same circumstances and that exploitation doesn't exist. It's like the image of the high paid hooker that legalized prostitution advocates try to sell as the norm rather than the exception.

But we're going off the point I was trying to make. The military is a socialist jobs program and some people love it, so what is so wrong with a less expensive version that actually improves the economy instead of robbing it of valuable capital?

Are socialist programs like prison sex where it's okay because there were no other options at the time, but once you get out it goes back to being a sin?

But we're going off the point I was trying to make. The military is a socialist jobs program and some people love it, so what is so wrong with a less expensive version that actually improves the economy instead of robbing it of valuable capital?

Not following the logic there. How would you suggest to transition to a “less expensive version” that improves the economy?

Glad you asked, but it does open up a whole can of worms that would lead me to bringing up points that I'm sure a lot of people here would disagree with. But since we're all adults...

The United States can't currently afford the military it has without defecit spending. At some point we will have to scale it back anyway. It would be better to do it in an orderly dignified fashion rather than a soviet style collapse.

At the same time we could ramp up a federal work program that trains people to do useful stuff like maintain and repair our crumbling infrastructure. If we put through a package of policies that end subsidies for automation, reduce employer costs for hiring, and cement a fixed immigration policy it would go a long way towards establishing new industries that can replace the offshored jobs that are never coming back.

And for national defense? A well regulated militia is much less likely to ship off for international interventionism than a standing army. Much less expensive and just as effective if someone thinks about invading.

And for national defense? A well regulated militia is much less likely to ship off for international interventionism than a standing army. Much less expensive and just as effective if someone thinks about invading.

You are more intelligent than this, even if you have little to no understanding of warfare and military issues.

.

The United States can't currently afford the military it has without defecit spending. At some point we will have to scale it back anyway. It would be better to do it in an orderly dignified fashion rather than a soviet style collapse.

So you’re saying the US is running at a deficit because of the military?!?!  Can’t be because the knuckleheads in DC spend on all sorts of other stuff?

And you rambled on an on about some utopian vision without any practical proposal how to get there. It’s easy to say I want to be prosperous by going to college and getting into a lucrative career field. Easy to say but not quite as easy when there’s a thing called reality.

So you’re saying the US is running at a deficit because of the military?!?!

Not even the slightest awareness of the behemoth entitlement  monster LBJ crippled the nation with.

Of course, the left desperately needs that under-class to keep as a captive voting block in perpetuity, as LBJ famously said they would be.

Yes our current military industrial complex is a huge waste of money that has bankrupted the Federal government along with various other entitlement programs that benefit only the wealthy at the cost of everyone else.

And the worst part is that despite all the lavished money the military is fundamentally broken.

Expensive toys that don't work, a culture awash in scandals, 20 years and trillions wasted in the Middle East and it looks worse than ever. Speaking of which it might be a good idea to look at what's going on in Afghanistan and reconsider any doubts you might have about effectiveness of militias. They won a while ago, but unfortunately for the poor kids who keep getting sent over there our chicken hawks have a difficult time admitting it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/americas-slow-motion-military-and-policy-disaster-in-afghanistan-and-pakistan/2018/02/02/b3ce82f4-029c-11e8-bb03-722769454f82_story.html?utm_term=.5d1b3a69fac7