HPD Website PTA (Read 896 times)

RifleArts

HPD Website PTA
« on: June 30, 2021, 11:12:27 AM »
Has anyone had any luck with the HPD Website and actually secured a PTA? Watched it for the last 2 hours with nothing dropped into available times.

rpoL98

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2021, 11:20:12 AM »
there's a bunch of tips & tricks that supposedly will enhance your chances for success in the 2aHawaii thread below.  let us know, this is a hot topic, believe it or not.

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=40613.20

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2021, 11:27:14 AM »
Has anyone had any luck with the HPD Website and actually secured a PTA? Watched it for the last 2 hours with nothing dropped into available times.

I got one yesterday.

You have to watch (1) during normal business hours (8-4:30, I think -- might be off a little); and (2) exactly on the 10-minute mark, meaning :00, :10, :20, :30, :40, and :50 minutes after the hour.

I saw 2 appointments pop up that were snagged by someone else within 30 seconds before I could submit my form. 

After I submitted the form once and my browser remembered the information I entered, submission was quicker for subsequent tries -- which is why I was successful grabbing a later appointment.  The browser had all the fields filled when the form was generated, so all I had to do was hit the submit button.

My gripe is that there's no way on Earth there are so many gun transfers taking place that every single appointment has been booked for 90 days out from every single day!  That requires 6 bookings per hour, at least 6 hours per day for 90 days.  Subtracting weekends and a good number of holidays, that's about 60 workdays.  So, (6 bookings per hour) * (6 hours per day) =  36 bookings per day.  That 36 * 60 workdays = 2,160 bookings over the next 90 days.  For each workday after the first 90-day period, add another 36 bookings.

Who's sitting on all those reservations?

Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

RifleArts

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2021, 11:27:56 AM »
Right on thanks for the reply.
Did those for the last 2 hours no success.


there's a bunch of tips & tricks that supposedly will enhance your chances for success in the 2aHawaii thread below.  let us know, this is a hot topic, believe it or not.

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=40613.20

macsak

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2021, 12:00:47 PM »
I got one yesterday.

You have to watch (1) during normal business hours (8-4:30, I think -- might be off a little); and (2) exactly on the 10-minute mark, meaning :00, :10, :20, :30, :40, and :50 minutes after the hour.

I saw 2 appointments pop up that were snagged by someone else within 30 seconds before I could submit my form. 

After I submitted the form once and my browser remembered the information I entered, submission was quicker for subsequent tries -- which is why I was successful grabbing a later appointment.  The browser had all the fields filled when the form was generated, so all I had to do was hit the submit button.

My gripe is that there's no way on Earth there are so many gun transfers taking place that every single appointment has been booked for 90 days out from every single day!  That requires 6 bookings per hour, at least 6 hours per day for 90 days.  Subtracting weekends and a good number of holidays, that's about 60 workdays.  So, (6 bookings per hour) * (6 hours per day) =  36 bookings per day.  That 36 * 60 workdays = 2,160 bookings over the next 90 days.  For each workday after the first 90-day period, add another 36 bookings.

Who's sitting on all those reservations?


the LGS that is selling appointments
allegedly...

rpoL98

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2021, 12:05:42 PM »
the LGS that is selling appointments
allegedly...
that alleged LGS is doing the anti-2a movement a big favor, and a great disservice to Hawaii 2A.  Probably Karl Roads's favorite business establishment, he'll give them some tax breaks, under the table, of course, local style.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2021, 12:45:16 PM »
that alleged LGS is doing the anti-2a movement a big favor, and a great disservice to Hawaii 2A.  Probably Karl Roads's favorite business establishment, he'll give them some tax breaks, under the table, of course, local style.

I seriously believe there is someone in HPD getting bribes to snag appointments for these LGS scalpers.  It's not impossible, but I find it unrealistic that someone from the LGS is sitting at a screen all day every day to make appointments. 

Although, it could be some enterprising teen accumulating the appointments and selling them to the LGS, too.

Not difficult to write a browser script to mimc the actions of a person every 10 minutes and make the reservation.  Why do you think so many OTHER sites have the re-captcha "I am not a robot" widgets?  It's pretty common to script repetitive actions, especially if the IRLs and appointment times are set in stone.
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

RifleArts

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2021, 12:54:18 PM »
Thanks all for the info. Is there anyone watching this stuff?

6716J

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2021, 12:59:53 PM »
I got one yesterday.

You have to watch (1) during normal business hours (8-4:30, I think -- might be off a little); and (2) exactly on the 10-minute mark, meaning :00, :10, :20, :30, :40, and :50 minutes after the hour.

I saw 2 appointments pop up that were snagged by someone else within 30 seconds before I could submit my form. 

After I submitted the form once and my browser remembered the information I entered, submission was quicker for subsequent tries -- which is why I was successful grabbing a later appointment.  The browser had all the fields filled when the form was generated, so all I had to do was hit the submit button.

My gripe is that there's no way on Earth there are so many gun transfers taking place that every single appointment has been booked for 90 days out from every single day!  That requires 6 bookings per hour, at least 6 hours per day for 90 days.  Subtracting weekends and a good number of holidays, that's about 60 workdays.  So, (6 bookings per hour) * (6 hours per day) =  36 bookings per day.  That 36 * 60 workdays = 2,160 bookings over the next 90 days.  For each workday after the first 90-day period, add another 36 bookings.

Who's sitting on all those reservations?

A record high total of 26,122 personal/private firearm permit applications were processed statewide during 2020 = 100 per work day based on 261 work days in a year so figure 80 per day in Honolulu

All the stats are here for 2020: https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=41154.msg373270#msg373270

the LGS that is selling appointments
allegedly...

I know of 2 personally
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2021, 01:10:20 PM »
Thanks all for the info. Is there anyone watching this stuff?

Are you asking if HPD has anyone monitoring for abuse?

They have made changes under the pretense of stopping some of it, like canceling multiple/excessive appointments under the same name.  They also removed the online "Cancel Appointment" feature so you now have to appear in person before your appointment to cancel.  Not sure how that is intended to do anything other than prevent legit appointment holders from easily swapping appointments with each other like we do here.

If they really wanted to stop abuse, they would create a user database and require you to log in before booking an appointment.  They would also use re-captcha to stop scripts from making appointments.

I've done most of my page-scrapping and form-filling scripts in Linux using Bash shell and wget commands:

https://journalxtra.com/linux/bash/bash-filling-web-forms-with-curl-and-wget/
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

6716J

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2021, 01:15:04 PM »
Are you asking if HPD has anyone monitoring for abuse?

They have made changes under the pretense of stopping some of it, like canceling multiple/excessive appointments under the same name.  They also removed the online "Cancel Appointment" feature so you now have to appear in person before your appointment to cancel.  Not sure how that is intended to do anything other than prevent legit appointment holders from easily swapping appointments with each other like we do here.

If they really wanted to stop abuse, they would create a user database and require you to log in before booking an appointment.  They would also use re-captcha to stop scripts from making appointments.

I've done most of my page-scrapping and form-filling scripts in Linux using Bash shell and wget commands:

https://journalxtra.com/linux/bash/bash-filling-web-forms-with-curl-and-wget/

OR...

If they really wanted to stop abuse Stop the BS appointment system and just go back to walk-ins. That would stop 100% of abuse and PTA appointment parking. But then again, why would they make it easy for us?

create a user database What and give them more access to our lives? Fuck no. At least walk your happy ass back to the records and pull the file.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2021, 01:15:23 PM »
A record high total of 26,122 personal/private firearm permit applications were processed statewide during 2020 = 100 per work day based on 261 work days in a year so figure 80 per day in Honolulu

All the stats are here for 2020: https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=41154.msg373270#msg373270

I know of 2 personally

One other thing to factor in:

Quote
The tally of handgun permits is perennially confounded, however, as some of
the county police departments issue a single permit listing all handguns that will be acquired
simultaneously from the same source (i.e., one permit per transaction, per HRS § 134-2(e)), while the
other departments issue one permit per handgun even if they are acquired in the same transaction.

So, the number of reservations could be significantly less than the number of permits issued since you can make one reservation and submit multiple permit applications at the same appointment.

Also, I know many people take the opportunity to apply for a new or renewed long gun permit at the time they apply for a handgun permit to limit the number of trips to the police station.  That again represents more permits issued (handgun and long gun combined) than appointments booked.

Just an observation.  So if an average of 100 permits are issued per day statewide, it may only represent 50-75 actual appointments/applicants -- as an example.
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

QUIETShooter

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2021, 01:19:43 PM »
I have been trying for quite a long time.  Thanks to all posters sharing tips as to how to snag an appointment. 

I can't seem to even get past first base.  I can't even reach first base, lol! :rofl:

Something doesn't seem right.  Even if there is a surge in firearms ownership it really looks like someone(s) are snagging the appointments for their own people or LGS.  Or an anti-gun conspiracy that has no one showing up to apply for PTA's and the officers behind the counter are just picking their nose in boredom, waiting for pau hana time. :rofl:

And does anyone think HPD will do anything about this?

Of course not.

Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2021, 01:21:58 PM »
OR...

If they really wanted to stop abuse Stop the BS appointment system and just go back to walk-ins. That would stop 100% of abuse and PTA appointment parking. But then again, why would they make it easy for us?

create a user database What and give them more access to our lives? Fuck no. At least walk your happy ass back to the records and pull the file.

They already have you in their databases.  RAPBACK, fingerprints, NICS, firearm registrations, etc.  Creating an account with minimal PII (personally identifiable information) isn't going to bother me.  If the database gets hacked, then I would hope HPD didn't store social security numbers.  I can live with my address, email and phone number being "in the wild."  It is already.

If they were smart, they'd use 2-factor identification with a password and either texting or email.  That way you have to log in with two of the three methods to make an appointment.

But, this is academic.  Unless they are reading this thread, HPD is unlikely to care enough to figure out an actual solution for the actual problem.
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

Eric808

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2021, 06:07:31 PM »
My wife can not believe what we have to do to buy and then register firearms.  She suggested that like FLAPP to have a register login and add a credit card.  You setup an account, then log in, this will make it easier to fill in the forms and then if you are a no-show, charge you a fee.  Stop the anti-G from taking all the slots. 

She did not like the standing in line before 7am, they said that she did not have to be there to request a registration appointment.  Getting an appointment time, then going back at that time.  We had to also go back at 8am to pickup our permits.  Now if we had to go to the LGS to pick up, that would have been another trip out and back.  Luckily we were third in line and got 8:50 appointment.  Funny that first person got the 8-8:50 time slot because the 8:50 as available for the 2nd guy, but he wanted a late afternoon appointment.  Those other in line before us at 8:50 were not in the 7am line.  hmmm?

Also a clerk who heiped us get our permits at 8am, saw us at 8:50 and told us on the side that we should have just ask the "door guy" if we could just wait and try to register.  They had extra clerks assigned that day.  Good to be nice and respectful, actually it was my wife, they seem to be alot nicer to her?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2021, 06:33:26 PM »
My wife can not believe what we have to do to buy and then register firearms.  She suggested that like FLAPP to have a register login and add a credit card.  You setup an account, then log in, this will make it easier to fill in the forms and then if you are a no-show, charge you a fee.  Stop the anti-G from taking all the slots. 

She did not like the standing in line before 7am, they said that she did not have to be there to request a registration appointment.  Getting an appointment time, then going back at that time.  We had to also go back at 8am to pickup our permits.  Now if we had to go to the LGS to pick up, that would have been another trip out and back.  Luckily we were third in line and got 8:50 appointment.  Funny that first person got the 8-8:50 time slot because the 8:50 as available for the 2nd guy, but he wanted a late afternoon appointment.  Those other in line before us at 8:50 were not in the 7am line.  hmmm?

Also a clerk who heiped us get our permits at 8am, saw us at 8:50 and told us on the side that we should have just ask the "door guy" if we could just wait and try to register.  They had extra clerks assigned that day.  Good to be nice and respectful, actually it was my wife, they seem to be alot nicer to her?

If they can randomly allow walk-ins (basically what you described) for people already there, why can't they just make all appointments walk-in?  Or maybe have a block of time set aside for walk-ins only?

Also, everyone has different scheduling needs.  Why can't they have blocks of appointments set aside for people with permits waiting to be picked up?  Just standing in line hoping you get a reasonable time slot is ridiculous.

They'd be much better off on both sides of the window if they simply set up a phone system to call in and talk to a scheduler.  That way they (1) know who you are, (2) have access to all open appointment times, (3) can answer questions to streamline the process, and (4) try to find a block of times for PTA and registration that coincides with their personal schedules and factors in permit pickups and time to go get the firearm.

This process as it stands is a total mess.  A human being sitting between the tax paying citizen and the police firearms division would make the process so much more stressless and stop some of the abuse. 

They don't even need to assign a police officer to the scheduling job.  Anyone with the ability to read and speak English and use basic computer software could do a great job.  (That leaves OmniGrub out!)
Trust those who seek the truth but doubt those who say they have found it.

Frog

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2021, 07:42:40 PM »
Didn’t the State get sued for the whole registration process?  When are these changes supposed to take place?  Can they just take their time to implement change?  Is there a date by which they need to comply? 

Omglol

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2021, 08:14:27 PM »
Do they still have appointments for permit. Website says PTA appointments will be made available if cancellation occurs.

stangzilla

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2021, 05:15:46 AM »
Do they still have appointments for permit. Website says PTA appointments will be made available if cancellation occurs.

Their 90 day limit is full
It's always full
We are screwed

You can still get appt but you gotta be fast on the keyboard then wait 90 days

QUIETShooter

Re: HPD Website PTA
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2021, 08:39:57 AM »
Their 90 day limit is full
It's always full
We are screwed

You can still get appt but you gotta be fast on the keyboard then wait 90 days

I had a hellava hard time trying to get a PTA appointment.  I'm sure many others had a hard time too.

Thanks to the tips of members on this board, there are ways to improve chances but still hard.

All I can say is for members to support the fight to end this unconstitutional BS.  When the call goes out to voice our concerns and objections let's all answer that call with conviction.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.