Maunakea TMT Protests (Read 169588 times)

RSN172

Maunakea TMT Protests
« on: July 15, 2019, 08:57:20 PM »
I have been watching the news about all these Hawaiian activists who are protesting the building of the TMT.  They say Mauna Kea is sacred to their culture and they cannot allow the mountain to be further desecrated.  Once the TMT is completed, five of the other telescopes will be taken out.  To me, that would make the mountain better.  There are also a lot of people who want it built because it means jobs.  These protesters say they will be up there everyday no matter how long it takes.  A lot of them look like they are too young to be retired and I don't think they are independently wealthy.  So do they have jobs? Or are they all like one “prominent “Hawaiian activist who chained himself to the cattle guard and has spend most of his life living off the state and welfare?

changemyoil66

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2019, 11:21:13 AM »
Remember the Occupy Wall Street protestors at Thomas Square?  Toward the end there were only 4 or so.

I'm not Hawaiian, but to me this is a big waste of resources.  If the telescope will help us see further or clearer, then why not?  Already get stuff up there.  It's not like a condo or shopping center is being built.  It's an upgrade to an older system.  And like you mentioned 1 for 5 seems like a good deal to me.  Unless also more buildings will replace those other 5 scopes.

The best part is HPD being sent to help.  Now more resources that could be used here are being diverted.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2019, 11:31:38 AM »
Surprising that a state with few large economic opportunities, namely tourism and related industries, would be so fearful of protestors trying to stop a multi-billion-dollar project on an outer island.

The mountain is unique, making it the best location for a telescope.  Many other scopes have been built without major problems.

I wonder ... if the TMT were billed as the best chance for solving climate change, would our Democrat-populated state (& protestors) have a different opinion on the project?
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2019, 12:58:08 PM »
So if the state wanted to confiscate guns and 500 gun owners took a stand at KHSC because it was a sacred place to us, what would happen?  Would they be like at Mauna Kea, no one will be arrested, you are free to go.

tillamook

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2019, 01:27:01 PM »
I'd think protesting giant corporate resorts who scoop up the best property and treat local employees like dirt would be a better use of a protest. ???

If someone wants to build something that purely advances the world's scientific knowledge on my grave someday be my guest.  Even if it involves digging me up and throwing my bones out with the trash. 

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2019, 01:36:25 PM »
I don't have any recollection of Hawaiians going up Mauna Kea to worship in groups in the past few decades.  Seems like these Hawaiian activists are agai st anything that will benefit people and create jobs.  Like they protested the H3 and now many of them are using and are happy the highway is there.  There are many Hawaiians who are pro TMT. 

bass monkey

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2019, 01:36:50 PM »
They blocking the road, and it's not feasible,  but I'd love to see the building material be flown in by helicopter over everyone.

groveler

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2019, 05:32:14 PM »
I worked nearly 10 years on the summit.
I note that "Hawaiians" only showed up here about
800 years ago.
That volcano is around a million years old.
I don't have any respect for Democrats
trying to pinch Haloes for money in the name
of some cultural practices.
I through, the local paper suggested alternate routes to the
summit around the state road blocks for the protestors.
I've hunted on Mauna Kea.  I can get around there and Mauna
Loa.
I know many good Hawaiians.  These guys in the news aren't
worth urinating on after they are deceased.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2019, 05:43:34 PM »
I don't have any recollection of Hawaiians going up Mauna Kea to worship in groups in the past few decades.  Seems like these Hawaiian activists are agai st anything that will benefit people and create jobs.  Like they protested the H3 and now many of them are using and are happy the highway is there.  There are many Hawaiians who are pro TMT.

Ige just vetoed changes to asset forfeiture laws that would have required a conviction (due process) BEFORE seizing assets believed to be linked to criminal activities.

If I say my property is sacred, would that prevent seizure by Big Brother?

People can lose their homes and businesses under eminent domain confiscation if the government believes the needs of the public outweigh the needs of the owners.

Yet, here we are, watching as once again the state demonstrates how they care more for feelings and beliefs than allowing lawful commerce and scientific advancement to be protected.

Protesting is one thing.  Disruption of public roadways to stop the flow of workers and materials is no better than BLM idiots blocking interstate highways.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2019, 05:57:12 PM »
what would King Kamehameha do?
Deeds Not Words

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2019, 06:52:10 PM »
what would King Kamehameha do?
I, II, or III?

And what about I's 28 other children?

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2019, 08:14:20 PM »
what would King Kamehameha do?
May be a better question is what would Kim Jung Un do.

oldfart

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2019, 08:52:48 PM »
I have a hard time believing my ancestors would leave the lush, comfortable lowlands to walk up a barren, frigid mountain to pray.
What, Me Worry?

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2019, 09:24:36 PM »
I have a hard time believing my ancestors would leave the lush, comfortable lowlands to walk up a barren, frigid mountain to pray.

great point :shaka:
Deeds Not Words

stangzilla

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2019, 09:09:22 AM »
are they negotiating bc the protesters are holding Mauna Kea hostage?

jc2721

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2019, 09:10:20 AM »
Why aren't they in the lava fields protesting the bulldozing of Pele? 

changemyoil66

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2019, 10:22:35 AM »
are they negotiating bc the protesters are holding Mauna Kea hostage?

Bascially.

So even after a court order, they're blocking the road.  This is what I have a problem with.  If they gathered on the side of the road, then no problem.  But once they start to prevent work from happening, then there's a problem.

If I were TMT, I would sue the state for not clearing the protesters.  They've been delayed for over a year now due to this.  But then again, maybe they don't want add more to the PR fire.

stangzilla

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2019, 11:49:22 AM »
Bascially.

So even after a court order, they're blocking the road.  This is what I have a problem with.  If they gathered on the side of the road, then no problem.  But once they start to prevent work from happening, then there's a problem.

If I were TMT, I would sue the state for not clearing the protesters.  They've been delayed for over a year now due to this.  But then again, maybe they don't want add more to the PR fire.

I agree.  there is nothing to negotiate now, that time has past.  they can protest, but don't interfere with the court order.  at some point law enforcement has to start arresting people that are blocking the road. you cant block the road.  its that simple.
someone must be telling law enforcement to stand down and let them protest.  the longer this goes on, the more money will be wasted in more ways than one.

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2019, 01:15:53 PM »
Hawaii County Civil Defense: "Saddle Road is closed. Take alternate routes. It is unknown how long this blockage will remain."

I know how long it will remain... it will remain as long as the corrupt incompetent cops and state officials don't enforce the simple laws. What a joke!

HNN coverage:

"As one person in the tent is arrested, they’re being replaced by someone else.

Officials said those arrested would be processed in one of two ways.

They would either be taken to the Mauna Loa Access Road, written a ticket and released. But if they choose, they could also be physically arrested and taken to Hilo for processing."

So... the criminals will all be back doing it all over again in a matter of minutes, or at most, hours. Now that's some real serious law enforcement happening there! Only in Hawaii! Mo dakine fo shua!

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2019, 02:16:06 PM »
Our great Governor Ige must have been a circus performer.  He straddles the fence better than any acrobat I've ever seen!

Quote
David Y. Ige, Governor, State of Hawaiʻi:

“We have followed a 10-year process to get this point, and the day for construction to begin has arrived.
At this time our number one priority is everyone’s safety. As construction begins, I continue to be
committed to engaging with people holding all perspectives on this issue
and to making meaningful
changes that further contribute to the co-existence of culture and science on Mauna Kea.”

"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall