Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi (Read 5852 times)

BLKDRGN

Google it cause every question is a dumb question.

Jdelacruz

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 09:27:15 AM »
The headline should be "Instructor kills himself by letting a 9 year old shoot fully automatic uzi"

230RN

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 09:32:53 AM »
From the video I saw, it looks like it popped off her left hand and that allowed it to swing to her left.

What a tragedy.
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

BigBlue

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 09:58:10 AM »
Real victim is the kid.

s197

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 11:37:12 AM »
There was a similar incident a few years ago where an 8-year old killed themself.  I believe it was also an uzi.  It baffles me that these types of establishments are not illegal.

mauidog

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 11:59:52 AM »
There was a similar incident a few years ago where an 8-year old killed themself.  I believe it was also an uzi.  It baffles me that these types of establishments are not illegal.

This is no different than buying a 16 yr old who just got their license a fast sports car. 

It's not the machine that's bad.  it's the inexperience and lack of skill on the part of the operator that causes accidents.

The instructor exercised poor judgment.  Making "these types of establishments" illegal is not a solution.  It's a knee jerk reaction to an accident that could have otherwise been prevented.

If we follow your logic, all cars with more HP than a Prius should be illegal.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

s197

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 02:21:45 PM »
This is no different than buying a 16 yr old who just got their license a fast sports car. 

It's not the machine that's bad.  it's the inexperience and lack of skill on the part of the operator that causes accidents.

The instructor exercised poor judgment.  Making "these types of establishments" illegal is not a solution.  It's a knee jerk reaction to an accident that could have otherwise been prevented.

If we follow your logic, all cars with more HP than a Prius should be illegal.

And how do you prevent said accident?  By making it illegal for 8-year olds to shoot fully automatic weapons. 

I'm not saying you should make these types of rental places illegal but some amount of common sense needs to be exercised and there was zero here.  An 8 year-old has ZERO reason to be shooting a full auto weapon.

BigBlue

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 02:34:10 PM »
And how do you prevent said accident?  By making it illegal for 8-year olds to shoot fully automatic weapons. 

I'm not saying you should make these types of rental places illegal but some amount of common sense needs to be exercised and there was zero here.  An 8 year-old has ZERO reason to be shooting a full auto weapon.

Making things illegal will prevent them from happening?

Cool story bro.

Seriously though. This is a sad, stupid event, but as Ron White says - you can't fix stupid.. and you can't outlaw it either.

HiCarry

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 02:53:56 PM »
And how do you prevent said accident?  By making it illegal for 8-year olds to shoot fully automatic weapons. 

I'm not saying you should make these types of rental places illegal but some amount of common sense needs to be exercised and there was zero here.  An 8 year-old has ZERO reason to be shooting a full auto weapon.
I would venture a guess that the range where this happened has had a lot of children shoot those Uzis. And, furthermore I would surmise that if this type of incident was anything but rare, that liability insurance costs would be so prohibitively high as to prevent continued operations.

Suggesting that we make it illegal seems to me, IMHO, akin to saying because some kids accidentally shoots themself or another kid because of a "responsible adult's" negligence, that we should outlaw guns......

s197

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 03:05:23 PM »
Making things illegal will prevent them from happening?

Cool story bro.

Seriously though. This is a sad, stupid event, but as Ron White says - you can't fix stupid.. and you can't outlaw it either.

Just because you can't have 100% prevent doesn't mean you should just shrug your shoulders either.  Do you think felons should be able to own firearms?  Despite it being illegal, we know criminals get their hands on guns, does this mean we shouldn't have any laws in place? 

There are plenty of laws that allow certain activities to adults (drinking, smoking, gambling, etc.) that are illegal for minors and I see this as something no different.  I'm not saying to take away the rights of law abiding citizens, but we're talking about an 8 year-old girl here, unless you can provide me with a compelling argument as to why she needed to be shooting that uzi, I think legislation could prevent some of the stupidity. 

Jdelacruz

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 03:10:33 PM »
And how do you prevent said accident?  By making it illegal for 8-year olds to shoot fully automatic weapons. 

I'm not saying you should make these types of rental places illegal but some amount of common sense needs to be exercised and there was zero here.  An 8 year-old has ZERO reason to be shooting a full auto weapon.

This is my no means an accident and was entirely preventable. This is stupidity and the instructor paid with his life for his stupidity.

I don't believe any new laws should be made because of this because the level of stupidity is so high  it's like saying we need to make a laws that make it illegal to drink poison or make it illegal to close your eyes and walk across the street or make it illegal to eat crap. Its so apparent that you should not do these things that there needs to be no law. Otherwise we open up the way we teach kids firearms to regulation and I can guarantee you that those making legislation to regulate how kids are taught won't be so kind all in the name of safety.

new guy

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2014, 03:17:14 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 10:05:55 PM by new guy »
Your mindset is your primary weapon. - Jeff Cooper

stangzilla

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2014, 03:42:35 PM »
This is no different than buying a 16 yr old who just got their license a fast sports car. 

It's not the machine that's bad.  it's the inexperience and lack of skill on the part of the operator that causes accidents.

The instructor exercised poor judgment.  Making "these types of establishments" illegal is not a solution.  It's a knee jerk reaction to an accident that could have otherwise been prevented.

If we follow your logic, all cars with more HP than a Prius should be illegal.

remember Hulk Hogan's son a few years ago when he was driving his Supra and killed his friend riding in the car.
too much power for a little boy.

Tom_G

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2014, 05:07:17 PM »
I have absolutely no idea what I think about this. 
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

BigBlue

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2014, 07:53:30 PM »
Just because you can't have 100% prevent doesn't mean you should just shrug your shoulders either.  Do you think felons should be able to own firearms?  Despite it being illegal, we know criminals get their hands on guns, does this mean we shouldn't have any laws in place?

Sure, I think some felons should be allowed to own guns. And of course we need laws. But we don't need laws to cover every single situation to try to protect people from doing something stupid.

OMG I'm crazy! Okay calm down.

50% of felons (according to DOJ) are nonviolent. About 1/4 of those are drug-related. Why should a convicted felony shoplifter be banned for life for owning a gun? It varies by jurisdiction, but in many places just stealing a watch could make you felon. Now, should there be some type of perhaps.. period of time in which those rights are blocked? Probably - that seems reasonable. But banned from gun ownership for life because you were holding a bag of weed in your youth? Stupidity.

Serious violent crimes? Sure. Absolutely. But don't paint all "felons" with the same brush. Treating a minor drug possession (1/4 of US states treat possession for personal use as a felony) the same as a violent rapist as far as 2A goes is unfair, particularly when the real crooks wear suits and go unpunished.

Quote
There are plenty of laws that allow certain activities to adults (drinking, smoking, gambling, etc.) that are illegal for minors and I see this as something no different.  I'm not saying to take away the rights of law abiding citizens, but we're talking about an 8 year-old girl here, unless you can provide me with a compelling argument as to why she needed to be shooting that uzi, I think legislation could prevent some of the stupidity.

I never said she should be shooting that uzi. I think it's abject stupidity giving a child a full auto weapon, particularly a SMG which is difficult to control. The people who ran the range are evidently incompetent as was the instructor who paid for it with his life. As I posted elsewhere the child is the victim and frankly the parents are morons for not having more common sense. Nothing wrong with a child shooting a gun in the right environment, but a full auto SMG is not even close to sensible.

But these are the sorts of accidents that are so rare that passing legislation to prevent them is frankly a waste of time. Now the media will rally around this but ultimately there is no epidemic of 9 year olds losing control of full auto guns at ranges. The legislative effort trying to "fix" this nonexistent problem would be better focused on more worthy causes.

You say that even it could help protect someone it would be worthwhile - I disagree and here's why. It reminds me of the child in hot car incidents. Tragic? Absolutely. Preventable? Definitely. But do we need a law preventing you from leaving your child in a hot car? No that's stupid. There are existing child endangerment/etc laws that cover these situations and quite likely the parents/range in this case (not a lawyer). That is why an additional law is not needed.

I'm not worried about "loss of rights" or such as I agree children should not be firing full auto guns - I just believe passing a law against stupidity is futile. You're welcome to disagree. Think of me next time you pass someone on H1 sitting in the back of a pickup truck and ponder the oddities we legislate away vice those we protect.

Kingkeoni

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2014, 08:02:54 PM »
And how do you prevent said accident?  By making it illegal for 8-year olds to shoot fully automatic weapons. 

I'm not saying you should make these types of rental places illegal but some amount of common sense needs to be exercised and there was zero here.  An 8 year-old has ZERO reason to be shooting a full auto weapon.

The age isn't the issue here.

The skill level of the instructor is the problem.

First off, he is on the wrong side, and has not put himself in a position to establish wrist control.

Secondly he puts the loaded gun in her hand then takes his eyes off her hands and starts to place her feet where he thinks they should be.

This is a very sad incident all the way around and unfortunately, all the anti gun folks will use this as a springboard for new legislation.

Don't be surprised if that pudwhacker Obama holds a press conference soon about this incident.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 04:16:13 AM by Kingkeoni »
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

mauidog

Re: Child kills instructor with fully automatic Uzi
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2014, 06:38:50 PM »
And how do you prevent said accident?  By making it illegal for 8-year olds to shoot fully automatic weapons. 

I'm not saying you should make these types of rental places illegal but some amount of common sense needs to be exercised and there was zero here.  An 8 year-old has ZERO reason to be shooting a full auto weapon.

Why is your only solution for prevention of accidents more laws?  Laws will not prevent everything bad from happening.

People die everyday from poor judgement.  That is not limited to gun accidents.  Falling off of ladders, swimming in strong currents, etc, etc, etc.  Laws will never replace experience, wisdom, and good judgement.

Even with the best judgement, bad things can happen even if you did everything right.

Unless I've been asleep for a long time, I missed the rash of kids killing people accidentally with full auto machine pistols.  I'm not convinced there is a NEED for more laws, nor that more laws would make any difference.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper