You sunk my drug boat! (Read 7925 times)

changemyoil66

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2025, 05:14:45 PM »
Add on the fact that the missile strike arguably isn't even legal.
Trump has authority to designate Tren De Aragua a terrorist organization but that designation doesn't give him authority to kill the people on the boat.

They dive into the legality in the beginning of this podcast.
https://thedispatch.com/podcast/advisoryopinions/congress-wont-contradict-trump/
How many times have we heard this story. Lol.

If its sooooo illegal, why isnt he in handcuffs?

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2025, 05:30:45 PM »
How many times have we heard this story. Lol.

If its sooooo illegal, why isnt he in handcuffs?
Or impeached?

I did some reading, and the fact that Trump designated drug runners as terrorists broadens the legal landscape. 

Is what he did legal?  Who cares.  Are the people running drugs breaking several nations' laws and international law?  Absolutely.

We know for certain when someone is running drugs over the water.  We have many sources of INTEL to make sure we are able to track and intercept them.  The "innocent" boaters always stop their engines and allow the authorities to board their vessel.

i read one article that asked the question:  if we change our tactics from law enforcement (detain and prosecute) to military (stop them by any means necessary), what stops the cartels from militarizing their operations to counter it?

i wish the cartels good luck in finding enough crews willing to risk dying to for way less money than they make for their employers.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2025, 08:26:08 AM »
Or impeached?

I did some reading, and the fact that Trump designated drug runners as terrorists broadens the legal landscape. 

Is what he did legal?  Who cares.  Are the people running drugs breaking several nations' laws and international law?  Absolutely.

We know for certain when someone is running drugs over the water.  We have many sources of INTEL to make sure we are able to track and intercept them.  The "innocent" boaters always stop their engines and allow the authorities to board their vessel.

i read one article that asked the question:  if we change our tactics from law enforcement (detain and prosecute) to military (stop them by any means necessary), what stops the cartels from militarizing their operations to counter it?

i wish the cartels good luck in finding enough crews willing to risk dying to for way less money than they make for their employers.

This all ties into that we should use the full force of our military to destroy the cartels.  Any country who argues, screw them.  They won't go to war with us to protect drug dealers. They will take shit, like how the Mexico President is, but all talk.

And we do have precedent to doing so.  We invaded Iraq for "WMD's", we entered Syria for Bin Laden without permission, etc...

eyeeatingfish

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2025, 01:54:24 PM »
How many times have we heard this story. Lol.

If its sooooo illegal, why isnt he in handcuffs?

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Who is going to handcuff him? By your logic if there are no cops around to enforce the law, nothing is illegal.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2025, 02:11:40 PM by eyeeatingfish »

eyeeatingfish

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2025, 01:55:11 PM »
so you went and researched further on the missile strike, but didn't research your incorrect statement about the national guard?
got it...

Do you have something to add or just felt like trolling?

macsak

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2025, 02:00:43 PM »
not trolling
you had the ROE and roles of the national guard in DC wrong and refuse to admit it
and it was easily checkable...

Do you have something to add or just felt like trolling?

eyeeatingfish

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2025, 02:08:38 PM »
Major difference between a search and stopping to investigate.  Cops can investigate the driver and vehicle during a routine traffic stop.  If I take off at 100 mph, is it your opinion that I'm innocent and should not be stopped before I kill a real innocent?

Nobody being targeted with a missile is compliant and allowing a quick inspection -- which is our government's right according to international law.  Using a vehicle search as an analogy is totally irrelevant.  A boat on the high seas is not the same as a car on a highway.  Different set of laws and circumstances.

Due process?  Do you even know what that means?  If you're a cop being threatened by a man with a knife and you kill him, did he receive "due process" prior to being executed?  No, I'm not equating this with the boat interception.  I'm using it to illustrate the meaning of due process in legal terms.

.....i wish the cartels good luck in finding enough crews willing to risk dying to for way less money than they make for their employers.

Again, is there any evidence they were running from an order to stop? Even the coast guard doesn't blow up the boat, they just shoot the engine. Is the Navy not skilled enough to do that? You said no one is being targeted who is stopping for inspection, where is there evidence anyone asked them to stop?

You say international law allows the US government to stop boats for inspection, where are you getting this from? I did a search and found the below listed limited authority under international law but it doesn't mention drug movement.
Quote
A U.S. warship may only board a foreign private vessel if there is "reasonable ground for suspecting" that the vessel is involved in one of the following activities:
Piracy
The slave trade
Unauthorized broadcasting
The ship is without nationality (stateless)
The ship is, in reality, of the same nationality as the warship, despite flying a foreign flag or refusing to show its flag
If suspicions prove to be unfounded, the vessel must be compensated for any damage or loss it sustained.

If you take off from a cop at 100mph they can't summarily execute you, they can't even execute you if you are known to be a felon and flee. Prison guards are allowed to shoot a prisoner climbing over a fence to escape though but in that case they are already convicted.

What makes you think the cartels care? What makes you think they are hiring people with competitive wages/benefits rather than threatening them to kill their family if they don't deliver the drugs? Blow up one boat and they will go to the next fisherman, point a gun at his wife, and tell him to move some bundles no questions asked.

Lastly, I find the arguments to justify killing people bringing in drugs to be incompatible with the whole argument of guns don't kill people. A baggie of heroin sitting on a desk never killed anyone on it's own.

eyeeatingfish

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2025, 02:09:55 PM »
not trolling
you had the ROE and roles of the national guard in DC wrong and refuse to admit it
and it was easily checkable...

I didn't refuse to admit it, I clearly indicated I conflated two different parts of the story.

changemyoil66

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2025, 02:13:11 PM »
Who is going to handcuff him? By your logic if there are no cops around to enforce the law, nothing is illegal.

You tell me.  You stated that what he did was "arguably illegal".  Usually when a law is broken, someone is handcuffed when arrested.  Unless he instead willingly turns himself in.  Then I ask, where would he turn himself in at?

eyeeatingfish

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2025, 02:14:44 PM »
You tell me.  You stated that what he did was "arguably illegal".  Usually when a law is broken, someone is handcuffed when arrested.  Unless he instead willingly turns himself in.  Then I ask, where would he turn himself in at?

The POTUS is not a usually type of situation. If Trump came to Hawaii, drank a soda and threw the can on the ground, what do you think would happen to an HPD officer trying to arrest him for littering?

macsak

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2025, 02:15:39 PM »
you admitted you had the timeline wrong
you never admitted you had the roles of the guard wrong...

I didn't refuse to admit it, I clearly indicated I conflated two different parts of the story.

changemyoil66

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2025, 02:18:08 PM »

You say international law allows the US government to stop boats for inspection, where are you getting this from? I did a search and found the below listed limited authority under international law but it doesn't mention drug movement.
Quote
A U.S. warship may only board a foreign private vessel if there is "reasonable ground for suspecting" that the vessel is involved in one of the following activities:
Piracy
The slave trade
Unauthorized broadcasting
The ship is without nationality (stateless)
The ship is, in reality, of the same nationality as the warship, despite flying a foreign flag or refusing to show its flag
If suspicions prove to be unfounded, the vessel must be compensated for any damage or loss it sustained.

Is there more to this that you left out?  There is an ethics class at Annapolis and about a US warship stopping a ship full of refugees to render aid.  The point of this was if there is a pregnant woman on board and she gives birth on the US warship, then her child becomes a US citizen. So with the above, would no sailor render aid by boarding the vessel if needed?  What if someone has a medical emergency and cannot board the US warship?  Wouldn't by the examples you posted, the corpsman would be unable to board and render any life saving aid?

changemyoil66

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2025, 02:19:23 PM »
The POTUS is not a usually type of situation. If Trump came to Hawaii, drank a soda and threw the can on the ground, what do you think would happen to an HPD officer trying to arrest him for littering?

We are talking about killing people in a drug boat that you claim is "arguably illegal" and now you're comparing it to  littering.  Thanks for playing. 

eyeeatingfish

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2025, 10:23:26 PM »
you admitted you had the timeline wrong
you never admitted you had the roles of the guard wrong...

I never stated what the role of guard would be doing, I was talking about issues that would happen if the guard were used for certain roles.

eyeeatingfish

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2025, 10:27:03 PM »
Is there more to this that you left out?  There is an ethics class at Annapolis and about a US warship stopping a ship full of refugees to render aid.  The point of this was if there is a pregnant woman on board and she gives birth on the US warship, then her child becomes a US citizen. So with the above, would no sailor render aid by boarding the vessel if needed?  What if someone has a medical emergency and cannot board the US warship?  Wouldn't by the examples you posted, the corpsman would be unable to board and render any life saving aid?

If someone we heaving a heart attack and up pulls the US Navy offering to help there wouldn't be an issue because the man isn't going to resist help coming aboard, they are going to be adamantly requesting it.

eyeeatingfish

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2025, 10:30:53 PM »
We are talking about killing people in a drug boat that you claim is "arguably illegal" and now you're comparing it to  littering.  Thanks for playing.

Swoosh!

You said when a law is broken usually someone gets arrested. I pointed out the problem of who is going to step forward and arrest him? Local police? The Secret Service? The Navy?
I was not comparing a missile strike to littering.

macsak

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2025, 05:57:35 AM »
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=57312.msg506585#msg506585

I never stated what the role of guard would be doing, I was talking about issues that would happen if the guard were used for certain roles.

ren

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2025, 09:04:04 AM »
so stupid. Its like people trying to tell me how to make a Big Mac without ever working at a McDonalds or visited one. Especially one person who is just speculating how everything is "supposed" to work and arguing with everyone else.
Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2025, 04:01:06 PM »
If someone we heaving a heart attack and up pulls the US Navy offering to help there wouldn't be an issue because the man isn't going to resist help coming aboard, they are going to be adamantly requesting it.
Ur post said US ships can ONLY board a vessel for the following....

Whethee the captain of said ship allows them or not is irrelevant.

Thanks for playing.

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changemyoil66

Re: You sunk my drug boat!
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2025, 04:01:50 PM »
Swoosh!

You said when a law is broken usually someone gets arrested. I pointed out the problem of who is going to step forward and arrest him? Local police? The Secret Service? The Navy?
I was not comparing a missile strike to littering.
Wrong. Hahahhaha

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