HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns (Read 15629 times)

DesertRangerTycho

With H38 likely to pass this week what do you all think about it?  Several major guntubers have raised the alarm it will be combined with an onerous bill that will act as a covert gun grab by disqualifying people from ownership. The NRA is still supporting this legislation while GOA is taken an opposed stance, even if it means loosing national reciprocity.
I am curious what you all think.

Heavies

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 06:34:18 PM »
I think that addition of the other bill as a rider to H38 will cause the entire thing to fail.  Is that the purpose of doing so, so that all sides, which probably don't want it anyway, can give an appearance of trying?   :tinfoil:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2017, 06:38:07 PM »
After looking at the parts of the bill the Dems want to merge, it seems semi-reasonable to allow that as long as we all get national reciprocity.  The current state-by-state system is ridiculously complicated and risky for anyone who travels with firearms.  One scenario in particular involves people traveling through New York.  If you get delayed and spend the night there unexpectedly while transporting a firearm, they will likely arrest you the next day when you check in at the airport for having an unregistered firearm.  Those kinds of laws have no rational purpose other than to make felons of ordinary citizens.

The NICS system has shown itself to be broken in 2 mass shooting incidents at least.  Anything that improves existing measures to keep guns out of the wrong hands is fine with me as long as it plugs the holes -- not create more hoops to jump through. 
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

Heavies

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2017, 07:18:59 PM »
After looking at the parts of the bill the Dems want to merge, it seems semi-reasonable to allow that as long as we all get national reciprocity.  The current state-by-state system is ridiculously complicated and risky for anyone who travels with firearms.  One scenario in particular involves people traveling through New York.  If you get delayed and spend the night there unexpectedly while transporting a firearm, they will likely arrest you the next day when you check in at the airport for having an unregistered firearm.  Those kinds of laws have no rational purpose other than to make felons of ordinary citizens.

The NICS system has shown itself to be broken in 2 mass shooting incidents at least.  Anything that improves existing measures to keep guns out of the wrong hands is fine with me as long as it plugs the holes -- not create more hoops to jump through. 
I agree, but many in the free states are already making noise and fuss over this.  Claims of gov overreach and abuse, which are valid concerns, will make this a hard sell.

DesertRangerTycho

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2017, 08:28:19 PM »
I agree, but many in the free states are already making noise and fuss over this.  Claims of gov overreach and abuse, which are valid concerns, will make this a hard sell.

I can see how those in free states hate the provisions of any bill supported by the Dems. However, I know the National Concealed Carry Reciprocity will have such a chaos inducing effect on all gun control paradises it will be worth it. 

Direjackalope

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2017, 10:13:10 PM »
CCW for many of my mainland friends and family has become the equivalent of carrying a fire extinguisher. I think reciprocity would certainly help proliferate, de stigmatize, and de mystify firearms.

I imagine it would be similar to the assault weapons ban expiring and the soaring popularity of modern sporting rifles. I personally had no interest in picking up a AR until I was told I couldn’t. Likewise I had no interest in CCW until I realized it was forbidden fruit here in HI. I imagine plenty of  Joe and Jane Public feel the same as I do.

changemyoil66

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2017, 09:12:39 AM »
The rider wont' affect Hawaii because we already have
1) registration
2) mental health check
3) RAPBACK

But I'm hoping states that are pro 2a take one for the team that would allow anti 2a states the right to carry. 

zippz

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2017, 09:39:55 AM »
I wonder how this will affect a future Supreme Court case on CCW.  This law would spread CCW to every state so any pending court cases would be closed.  I'd rather have a SCOTUS ruling over this law as it would further reduce current and future CCW restrictions.  I still support this bill though.  I'll take what I can get.
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ptanabe

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 11:52:14 AM »
Passed the House. What about the senate though? How likely is it to pass the Senate?

nathanm14fan

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 01:41:05 PM »
Senate will ensure that this dies a quick death - there aren't enough Democratic votes to make it to the 60 required to pass the bill. And lets not forget - this bill states that reciprocity only counts if a state HAS concealed carry. If by some magic the legislation makes it to Trump's desk and he signs it, I would fully expect Hawaii and other like-minded states to try and dump their CCW laws completely. They'd rather have no carry then the chance for civilians to carry.

ren

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 02:58:43 PM »
Senate will ensure that this dies a quick death - there aren't enough Democratic votes to make it to the 60 required to pass the bill. And lets not forget - this bill states that reciprocity only counts if a state HAS concealed carry. If by some magic the legislation makes it to Trump's desk and he signs it, I would fully expect Hawaii and other like-minded states to try and dump their CCW laws completely. They'd rather have no carry then the chance for civilians to carry.

 :'( :(
Deeds Not Words

macsak

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 03:21:06 PM »
Senate will ensure that this dies a quick death - there aren't enough Democratic votes to make it to the 60 required to pass the bill. And lets not forget - this bill states that reciprocity only counts if a state HAS concealed carry. If by some magic the legislation makes it to Trump's desk and he signs it, I would fully expect Hawaii and other like-minded states to try and dump their CCW laws completely. They'd rather have no carry then the chance for civilians to carry.

this is why I am not celebrating HR 38 passing the house

DesertRangerTycho

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 04:04:40 PM »
Senate will ensure that this dies a quick death - there aren't enough Democratic votes to make it to the 60 required to pass the bill. And lets not forget - this bill states that reciprocity only counts if a state HAS concealed carry. If by some magic the legislation makes it to Trump's desk and he signs it, I would fully expect Hawaii and other like-minded states to try and dump their CCW laws completely. They'd rather have no carry then the chance for civilians to carry.

Thank goodness the Democrats allowed the Nuclear Option... I fully support the Republicans to beat the Dems silly with their own tools... And you can bet your ass the Republicans will want to support this "common sense gun legislation".   

Everyone said that Heller had no chance until he won....

ptanabe

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 04:35:41 PM »
Thank goodness the Democrats allowed the Nuclear Option... I fully support the Republicans to beat the Dems silly with their own tools... And you can bet your ass the Republicans will want to support this "common sense gun legislation".   

Everyone said that Heller had no chance until he won....
Plus Conyers “retirement” 😂 and Frankin’s resignation won’t help the dems

DesertRangerTycho

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 05:12:16 PM »
Plus Conyers “retirement” 😂 and Frankin’s resignation won’t help the dems

Exactly... The Dems are falling apart because they continually fail to have integrity to remove the debris from their ranks.  Now they are feeling the reality of loosing... I am delighted.

Heavies

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2017, 05:56:44 PM »
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/446/text

I like the House version much better....    Someone fluent in legalese, please explain if this version will be good of citizens in Hawaii with out of state permits?

DesertRangerTycho

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2017, 06:05:59 PM »
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/446/text

I like the House version much better....    Someone fluent in legalese, please explain if this version will be good of citizens in Hawaii with out of state permits?

Here is the key phrasing.... "or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm "

In other words, I have a CCP from Utah.  Per this line I will be able to carry here.

2ahavvaii

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2017, 06:14:59 PM »
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/446/text

I like the House version much better....    Someone fluent in legalese, please explain if this version will be good of citizens in Hawaii with out of state permits?

I mentioned it in the other thread.  And I dont think hawaii can just say we are no longer may issue states.  Or they can, but will end up getting overruled in court.  There is a reason why all 50 states changed to become at the very least, a "may issue" state.  There were court rulings that compelled everyone to change.


----------------------

https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/115th-congress/house-report/433

Current reciprocity wording as being voted on by the House today.  I believe we're still good in that even if HPD refuses to issue permits, we can still get out of state.  Because hawaii and the 7 other commie states are "may issue" states, #1 and #2 below don't come into play.

``Sec. 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms

  ``(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or
political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b))
and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is
not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping,
or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document
containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid
license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and
which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to
carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may
possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or
destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate
or foreign commerce, in any State that--
          ``(1) has a statute under which residents of the State may
        apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm; or
          ``(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by
        residents of the State for lawful purposes.

RSN172

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2017, 06:49:36 PM »
Even if this passes, and then the Republicans lose badly in tbe mid terms next year, the Dems can try to repeal tbe CCW law.  If Trump vetoes the repeal then it will probably contiue till we get a Dem POTUS and Congress.  In the mean time Hawaii will pass anti 2A laws and tie that up in court for years.  By then the Dems will be back in power and we will never have the right to carry here.  Don't mean to be pessimistic, but the Hawaii Dems made me this way.

2ahavvaii

Re: HR38- National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill - Thoughts and Concerns
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2017, 06:53:07 PM »
Even if this passes, and then the Republicans lose badly in tbe mid terms next year, the Dems can try to repeal tbe CCW law.  If Trump vetoes the repeal then it will probably contiue till we get a Dem POTUS and Congress.  In the mean time Hawaii will pass anti 2A laws and tie that up in court for years.  By then the Dems will be back in power and we will never have the right to carry here.  Don't mean to be pessimistic, but the Hawaii Dems made me this way.

Maybe true.  But once you open a dam's spillway, it's hard to close it once the flood of water comes through.  Once more people across the nation see that CCW isn't so bad, the argument against it is tougher.  Note that CCW has been expanding steadily over the last few decades with less "gun free zones" among many states because people are realizing the benefit of it.  In 1986, there were only 9 states that were unrestricted or "shall issue".  In 2017, there is 42 states


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http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php