Intruder shot & killed in Ewa (Read 16157 times)

drck1000

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2019, 04:01:29 PM »
Not from their home, but within the dwelling.  That's how I'm interpreting it.  I could be mistaken.  So if guy breaks down the door, and the state proves that you could have escaped to another room in your home before using deadly force, then you're screwed.  Can't stand in the living room and use deadly force.  But you don't have to jump out the window of that room you escaped to or use another door to escape your home either.

You're focusing on the following part, correct?

"The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating"

but then:

"except that:

          (i)  The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work"

I can see the distinction you appear to be making.  That said, my place is so darn small that once you're in the door, I'm generally not able to retreat.   :(

zippz

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2019, 04:19:10 PM »
Then in the comments:

The guy with the gun MUST be the bad guy, right?   ???

ETA: gun

Nothing gets past the keen eye behind the monitor. . .  :rofl:

Maybe the neighbors know something we don't.
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drck1000

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2019, 04:28:15 PM »
Maybe the neighbors know something we don't.
True.  Maybe history with one or both.  Neighbor feuds can be bad.   :(

I was more getting at the commentor's apparent bias against guns, or at least my opinion. 

changemyoil66

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2019, 06:52:20 PM »
You're focusing on the following part, correct?

"The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating"

but then:

"except that:

          (i)  The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work"

I can see the distinction you appear to be making.  That said, my place is so darn small that once you're in the door, I'm generally not able to retreat.   :(
Corect.

Lucky we live hawaii. 400sq feet homes for the win.sit on the couch and stretch arm out. Now arm is in the kitchen.

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drck1000

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2019, 12:01:06 PM »
Corect.

Lucky we live hawaii. 400sq feet homes for the win.sit on the couch and stretch arm out. Now arm is in the kitchen.

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My place is bigger than that, but not that much. . .  :( 

The layout is such that anyone coming in the door, there's really no good way to retreat to another room (bedroom, living, room, etc).  For a while, I had a Pelican case with revolvers in the living room, right by where I usually sit/lie on the couch.  That was right after I inherited the revolvers.  The revolvers were also right next to one of my "practical" swords.  Of course, all have been safely removed from those areas. . .  :P

changemyoil66

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #65 on: October 10, 2019, 12:33:42 PM »
My place is bigger than that, but not that much. . .  :( 

The layout is such that anyone coming in the door, there's really no good way to retreat to another room (bedroom, living, room, etc).  For a while, I had a Pelican case with revolvers in the living room, right by where I usually sit/lie on the couch.  That was right after I inherited the revolvers.  The revolvers were also right next to one of my "practical" swords.  Of course, all have been safely removed from those areas. . .  :P

Prosecutor will say "DRCK, you could have moved to the kitchen and into your fridge."

groveler

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2019, 12:33:59 PM »
My place is bigger than that, but not that much. . .  :( 

The layout is such that anyone coming in the door, there's really no good way to retreat to another room (bedroom, living, room, etc).  For a while, I had a Pelican case with revolvers in the living room, right by where I usually sit/lie on the couch.  That was right after I inherited the revolvers.  The revolvers were also right next to one of my "practical" swords.  Of course, all have been safely removed from those areas. . .  :P
I'm surprised at how small Oahu places are and how vulnerable.
Fences and dogs work wonders.  Layered defenses.

drck1000

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2019, 12:48:59 PM »
Prosecutor will say "DRCK, you could have moved to the kitchen and into your fridge."

If I moved into my kitchen from any other room, I wouldn't be retreating, I'd be advancing.  What does the HRS say about that?  :hmm:

I'm surprised at how small Oahu places are and how vulnerable.
Fences and dogs work wonders.  Layered defenses.

There's somewhat a level of layering.  There's building security.  The previous bldg manager was a pretty buff (I'm pretty sure he was juicing, and not the fruit sort) and he actually chased down a couple of guys who managed to get into the lobby or the parking garage.  He was good fun to talk to.  He passed away suddenly though and the bldg hasn't been the same.   :(

Nostayhome

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2019, 01:24:46 PM »
The prosecutor was on island 98.5 on Tuesday. She said that the way the case was presented to her was that the guy with the knife was standing outside of the guys gate on the sidewalk. The homeowner was in his doorway and shot him from there. Something doesn’t add up because I heard he was shot multiple times. I’m guessing it’s about 30yds from the door to the sidewalk by the video on the news.

zippz

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2019, 01:57:45 PM »
30 yards is far, most residential properties aren't that long in total.  Maybe 30 feet.

If that prosecutor is right, it doesn't look good for the shooter.
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drck1000

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2019, 02:27:23 PM »
The prosecutor was on island 98.5 on Tuesday. She said that the way the case was presented to her was that the guy with the knife was standing outside of the guys gate on the sidewalk. The homeowner was in his doorway and shot him from there. Something doesn’t add up because I heard he was shot multiple times. I’m guessing it’s about 30yds from the door to the sidewalk by the video on the news.
Was that Megan Kau?  Ms."You can't bring a knife to a fist fight, or a gun to a knife fight".  Exaggeration there, but pretty much what she is quoted saying.  I heard she tried to clarify that her words were taken out of context by the media.  Imagine that. . .  ::)

Nostayhome

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #71 on: October 10, 2019, 03:37:14 PM »
Was that Megan Kau?  Ms."You can't bring a knife to a fist fight, or a gun to a knife fight".  Exaggeration there, but pretty much what she is quoted saying.  I heard she tried to clarify that her words were taken out of context by the media.  Imagine that. . .  ::)

Yup. That’s the one.
She did say a lot of people were getting excited about her comment so she tried to justify herself.

Nostayhome

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2019, 03:39:59 PM »
30 yards is far, most residential properties aren't that long in total.  Maybe 30 feet.

If that prosecutor is right, it doesn't look good for the shooter.

Haha! Sorry I meant 30ft not sure why I put yards.
If that is the truth that he was outside of his property then he’s screwed.

drck1000

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2019, 04:03:09 PM »
Yup. That’s the one.
She did say a lot of people were getting excited about her comment so she tried to justify herself.
She's been in the news a lot lately on high or higher profile cases.  She is defending John Rabago.  The urinal licking case. 

changemyoil66

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2019, 08:17:27 PM »
Was that Megan Kau?  Ms."You can't bring a knife to a fist fight, or a gun to a knife fight".  Exaggeration there, but pretty much what she is quoted saying.  I heard she tried to clarify that her words were taken out of context by the media.  Imagine that. . .  ::)
Its not like they edited her statement. Shes just trying to cover her ass.

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RSN172

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #75 on: October 10, 2019, 09:06:23 PM »
30 yards is far, most residential properties aren't that long in total.  Maybe 30 feet.

If that prosecutor is right, it doesn't look good for the shooter.
Not on the Big Island.  It is 150 ft from my gate to the front door.  Some like to build their houses way back, like 600 ft or more from the gate.

changemyoil66

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #76 on: October 11, 2019, 09:00:49 AM »
Not on the Big Island.  It is 150 ft from my gate to the front door.  Some like to build their houses way back, like 600 ft or more from the gate.

No one needs an assault rifle.  You should be able to engage the target at 150ft with your handgun.

kong

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #77 on: October 20, 2019, 06:12:12 PM »
I don't see anything in 703-304 that says a person has to retreat from their home or move to another room in the house.

I am not an attorney but just looked up the definition of dwelling and it says it  is the structure of the house. Now try to google curtilage that is not dwelling.

rklapp

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #78 on: October 21, 2019, 08:33:05 PM »
Was that Megan Kau?  Ms."You can't bring a knife to a fist fight, or a gun to a knife fight".  Exaggeration there, but pretty much what she is quoted saying.  I heard she tried to clarify that her words were taken out of context by the media.  Imagine that. . .  ::)
If bringing a knife to a knife fight, does the homeowner's knife have to be the same size? What about a machete?
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RSN172

Re: Intruder shot & killed in Ewa
« Reply #79 on: October 21, 2019, 09:49:21 PM »
If bringing a knife to a knife fight, does the homeowner's knife have to be the same size? What about a machete?
If I had to defend myself against someone with any sort of knife, be it a 2 inch or even a 6 inch blade, I would not feel like I was cheating if I used my 37 inch long katana.