2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: bass monkey on September 20, 2011, 06:54:16 PM
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Anyone on here got a .308? I checked some out today. I like the feel of the bolt and the trigger on the remmington 700SPS. The XRS was smooth as well. They are bare guns though so i would need to buy rails, scope, etc, etc. Also checked out a mossburg 30-06. Felt just as heavy as the .308. They didnt have a .308 i could hold though. Liked that gun as well. Was wondering what everyone thought of these guns or recommend any other .308s. I know the remmingtons have a lot of good reviews and are suppose to be super accurate. The recoil pad is great as well. Heard they had trigger problems though in the past on the 700 series. The mossberg i havent heard much about so just staying open minded.
Looking for a gun with a smooth bolt and smooth trigger. Accurate. Plan to shoot pigs and goats. Let me know. And sorry for all the new threads.
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I have a Remington PSS in .308 and a Springfield Socom 16 in .308 and absolutely love both of them.
Different beasts for different burdens.
The PSS is incredibly accurate. I've never had any problem with the trigger at all.
The Socom is a phenomenal battle rifle with plenty of power and plenty accurate out to the 200 yards that I've fired it.
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What is the difference between the sps and pvs? From what i gather the pss is not made anymore, so looks like you scored a good rifle. Is the sps what took its place? Also could you post some pics. please.
Oh also the remmington sps i was looking at was the tactical version.
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Tough question. I'm gonna guess we are in the budget to mid price range.
Everyone will have an opinion on what they think is the "best" and why. Weight, stock shape, bolt/action/trigger feel, aftermarket support, ect. All play a big part into defining "best" for a particular person.
I personally can't stand the look and feel of the savage action but will admit they are generally very accurate off the shelf rifles.
I have not been impressed by off the shelf 700's for their price and to "vanilla" for my taste.
My personal pick would be the weatherby vanguard (sub moa if available, if not that's ok). Made by Howa of Japan. I love the feel of the action, and very solid rifle. The reviews speak for themselves.
My second choice would probably be a tikka, also a very smooth action.
Third would be a TC venture
Just my picks, you gotta shoulder them and cycle it to really make a decision.
Hope I didn't make your decision harder :shaka:
Pit
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Hahahahahahah. I tried the savage, didnt like the action on it.
The others you listed, never heard of them, so looks like i have a lot more reading and shouldering to do. Who keeps those guns in stock? And what is sub moa?
Thanks for the tip pit.
And also keoni, after reading apparently there is not much difference between the remmingtons.
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And also keoni, after reading apparently there is not much difference between the remmingtons.
There are worlds of differences between the Remington 700 models.
It's probably the most diverse line of rifles out there.
There are stainless, blued, Left handed, right handed, wood stocks, synthetic camo stocks, Synthetic black, tan and many other colors of stocks.
There are heavy barrel, light barrel, round barrels, triangle shaped barrels. Etc...
Here, look:
http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx (http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx)
Look at this sweetie:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-vl-ss-thumbhole.aspx (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-vl-ss-thumbhole.aspx)
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Hahahahahahah. I tried the savage, didnt like the action on it.
The others you listed, never heard of them, so looks like i have a lot more reading and shouldering to do. Who keeps those guns in stock? And what is sub moa?
Thanks for the tip pit.
And also keoni, after reading apparently there is not much difference between the remmingtons.
KingKeoni is right, 700's are like the Ford F150 of rifles. I know for sure Sports Authority has Vanguard's (not sub moa's, but MANY of them are anyway), and usually have Tikka T3's. I've seen TC ventures there in the past, but not so much anymore.
Sub minute of angle - short answer - able to shoot groups under 1 inch
Pics are always appreciated so here is my Howa 1500 (same action as Vanguard) in a Bell&Carlson stock, timney trigger, Falcon Menace FFP scope on EGW mount. Shoots tiny groups, but I wouldn't want to take it hunting.
(http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g321/toyupload/th_Howa.jpg) (http://s1096.photobucket.com/albums/g321/toyupload/?action=view¤t=Howa.jpg)
Actually for hunting in Hawaii you wanna go as lite as you can, so I change my pick and would choose the Tikka T3 lite as #1. It has a little different look to it, but man was it smooth. Not to mention its parent company is Sako.
Dammit man, you're making me want to buy one again ;)
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How much do you want to spend and what are you willing to accept in difference?
The difference in my opinion is not the caliber, but the platform.
Im a 7MM junkie, so I own a 7mm SAKO, a 7mm Weatherby and a custom 7MM STW Browning B-78.
The difference is 3 fold and the cost the same multiplier.
The Sako is great, the Weatherby better, and the Browning single shot godly.
The same can be said for most calibers...what is your median?
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I have a 80's Remington 700 BDL in .30-06. The action is fairly smooth. New (not custom worked on) guns need a lot of cycling and shooting to 'break in' IMO. Mine is pretty darn accurate with my handloads, and the .30-06 is very versatile.
Alot of the issues with Rem 700 triggers might be attributed to folks messing with them to try and get a very light pull.
If you are interested in later upgrades you'll find the most options on a 700 platform.
I may sell my BDL if you are interested. PM me.
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Anyone on here got a .308? I checked some out today. I like the feel of the bolt and the trigger on the remmington 700SPS. The XRS was smooth as well. They are bare guns though so i would need to buy rails, scope, etc, etc. Also checked out a mossburg 30-06. Felt just as heavy as the .308. They didnt have a .308 i could hold though. Liked that gun as well. Was wondering what everyone thought of these guns or recommend any other .308s. I know the remmingtons have a lot of good reviews and are suppose to be super accurate. The recoil pad is great as well. Heard they had trigger problems though in the past on the 700 series. The mossberg i havent heard much about so just staying open minded.
Looking for a gun with a smooth bolt and smooth trigger. Accurate. Plan to shoot pigs and goats. Let me know. And sorry for all the new threads.
Yes I have several rifles in .308 Win, but none of them are bolt action guns. Pretty much most bolt action guns out of the box are fine and will do what you want them to. IMHO it comes down to what you are willing to spend.
With regards to the safety of the early model Remington 700 triggers, I have seen that TV show on the 700 twice and both times I missed the beginning of the program so I don't know the full story and if it's really just BS/over hyped or a real issue.
While I would call a Remington 700 an accurate rifle out of the box, I wouldn't call it super accurate. To get a super accurate rifle you are going to spend a lot of money. For your needs a stock 700 is fine, heck even most semi automatic guns are accurate enough to shoot pigs and goats.
Hahahahahahah. I tried the savage, didnt like the action on it.
The others you listed, never heard of them, so looks like i have a lot more reading and shouldering to do. Who keeps those guns in stock? And what is sub moa?
Thanks for the tip pit.
And also keoni, after reading apparently there is not much difference between the remmingtons.
Stocking rifles............try Young Guns, OGC Tactical, Windward Guns, Gun Source. I'd avoid Magnum Firearms even if they did have bolt action rifles.
Moa is approximately 1 inch at 100 yards (actually it's a little bit more than 1"), or 1/60 of a degree. So it means the rifle is capable of shooting a group (center to center of impact) of approximately 1 inch. Typically this means a group of 3 or 5 shots depending on whom you talk to. Getting a bolt action that can shoot 1 moa is pretty easy nowdays and not too expensive.
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A little clarification on MOA, if you're interested: The 1/60th of a degree he's referring to is the angle of an imaginary triangle between the muzzle, the bulls-eye, and the point your shot hits. If you imagine your shot hit 1" high at 100 yards, and then draw a triangle connecting the three points I mentioned, the corner of the triangle at the muzzle will measure 1/60th of a degree, or one minute of angle. The bottom line is that when you hear somebody talk about a 1moa rifle, they generally mean they can shoot a five-shot group with a spread of less than 1 inch at 100 yds, which is obviously pretty good. (Depending on what context we're talking about, obviously. Shooting a 1" group at 100yds will get you laughed out of a benchrest competition. Those guys are absolutely ludicrous! OTOH, I'm pretty sure that every game animal you'll be after with a rifle has a wheelhouse measuring greater than 1 inch across...)
A little side note I find interesting: Latitude and longitude are referred to in degrees, minutes, and seconds, so the minute of angle correlates to navigation, as well. For latitude, the Earth is divided into two hemispheres, north and south, with each divided into 90 equal slices, which are referred to as a degree of latitude. Degrees are broken into 60 minutes, and minutes are broken into 60 seconds. One minute of latitude is roughly equal to one nautical mile (2000 yards). Longitude is similar, except that there are 180 degrees of longitude in each hemisphere, east and west, which, instead of being slices of even thickness, radiate out from the north and south poles. The degrees and minutes works the same, but because the width of a degree of longitude varies with latitude, they don't correlate to a set distance. (At the poles all the lines of longitude intersect, so a degree of longitude at the exact north pole is zero, and goes up to 60 nautical miles at the equator before narrowing again as it nears the south pole. This is how submarines that go up under the ice "circumnavigate" the globe in about two hours; they drive in a small circle around the north pole, then say that they circumnavigated the globe because they crossed all the lines of longitude. Tricksy hobbits!)
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How much do you want to spend and what are you willing to accept in difference?
Limit is about $600, not sure what you mean about "difference"
The difference in my opinion is not the caliber, but the platform.
Im a 7MM junkie, so I own a 7mm SAKO, a 7mm Weatherby and a custom 7MM STW Browning B-78.
The difference is 3 fold and the cost the same multiplier.
The Sako is great, the Weatherby better, and the Browning single shot godly.
The same can be said for most calibers...what is your median?
Thanks everyone else for all your input
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And also keoni, after reading apparently there is not much difference between the remmingtons.
There are worlds of differences between the Remington 700 models.
It's probably the most diverse line of rifles out there.
There are stainless, blued, Left handed, right handed, wood stocks, synthetic camo stocks, Synthetic black, tan and many other colors of stocks.
There are heavy barrel, light barrel, round barrels, triangle shaped barrels. Etc...
Here, look:
http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx (http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx)
Look at this sweetie:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-vl-ss-thumbhole.aspx (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-vl-ss-thumbhole.aspx)
Sorry i worded that wrong. I was asking the difference between the P and the PSP models.
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If you're asking the difference between a 700 PSS and a 700 SPS Tactical in a .308 platform I believe it's only the barrel length. PSS = 26" while the SPS Tactical = 20". Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
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You are correct about the PSS = 26"
My brother runs this rifle and it is a real tackdriver. Finish is parkerized, action it stiff and rough, barrel seems like a rusty pipe when pushing patches down the bore, chamber is massive (on the high end of SAAMI spec), and it doesn't win and beauty contests, but with 1/2 MOA groups (w/ handloads), who gives a rip. :worship:
On a side note, the rifle is pretty weighty, for hunting purposes.
Don't know if you'll find one new for $6 C-notes.
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If you are looking for a hunting rifle, I would look for a BDL or ADL.
These will be lighter and easier to carry in the field.
Most will be plenty accurate as well. I'd look for an older models, IMO the triggers and finishing are better.
Here's a group I just shot today with my .30-06 BDL with handloads and a crappy old Tasco 9 power scope. This is just a quick initial load work up, I wanted to tune the load down a bit because I will not be using this rifle to shoot competition anymore. The group is a hair over 1/2" Center to Center @ 100yards.
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/photo-77.jpg)
Here is the rifle. Notice the barrel is a thinner profile and the stock is light and fast.
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/photo-75.jpg)
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IIRC, the PSS has a much nicer stock than the SPS. The SPS has a Hogue stock which is a little flimsy.
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My PSS has the HS stock. However the barrel has been cut down to 20" and threaded/equipped with a PWS muzzle brake. I am contemplating on getting an AICS 2.0 stock. I shot sub MOA with bulk portugese ammo when I first go it. Even after the mods it still maintained sub MOA.
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If you are looking for a hunting rifle, I would look for a BDL or ADL.
These will be lighter and easier to carry in the field.
Most will be plenty accurate as well. I'd look for an older models, IMO the triggers and finishing are better.
Here's a group I just shot today with my .30-06 BDL with handloads and a crappy old Tasco 9 power scope. This is just a quick initial load work up, I wanted to tune the load down a bit because I will not be using this rifle to shoot competition anymore. The group is a hair over 1/2" Center to Center @ 100yards.
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/photo-77.jpg)
Here is the rifle. Notice the barrel is a thinner profile and the stock is light and fast.
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/photo-75.jpg)
Nice bench!!
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^^Thanks^^
got it at Costco
http://2aHawaii.com/index.php?topic=1909.0 (http://2aHawaii.com/index.php?topic=1909.0)
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What is a BDL or ADL?
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What is a BDL or ADL?
BDLs have a floor plate that opens up (http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/447213402/9719968/700%20bdl%20005.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg) to drop the un shot rounds out of the bottom metal, they are also finished a bit better.
ADLs have a blind floorplate (http://media.photobucket.com/image/remington%20700%20adl/gunslinger169/remington243/DSC02019.jpg), this means that the rounds must be cycled through the bolt to unload the un shot rounds.
Both have lighter barrel profiles than that of the target or tactical style rifles and also lighter wooden stocks. This makes them way easier to carry in the field, but gives a disadvantage when at the target range. The lighter barrels heat up much faster than the heavy profiles, thus causing you to fire shots more slowly to allow the barrel to cool. The bullets point of impact can shift as the barrel heats, and also the thinner barrel is 'whippier' causing a slight degradation in pure accuracy. Also, the light weight causes more felt recoil for any given caliber.
For the price point you mentioned Savage is a good rifle to begin with. The floating bolthead (http://www.gunblast.com/images/Savage10FP-LE2/MVC-010F.jpg) on a Savage is what makes them some of the most accurate factory rifles you can get. However, the stocks, triggers, barrels and finish are not that great, but to get the rifle up to par, aftermarket parts are readily available and pretty easy to install. In fact, the target rifle I shoot now is a semi-custom I built myself. It can shoot bugholes, as long as I can hold right...
Then again after you buy a better stock, trigger, barrel, bolt handle, bolt lift kit, yada yada yada, you'll still end up spending a pretty penny. :P
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I have a Remington PSS in .308 and a Springfield Socom 16 in .308 and absolutely love both of them.
Different beasts for different burdens.
The PSS is incredibly accurate. I've never had any problem with the trigger at all.
The Socom is a phenomenal battle rifle with plenty of power and plenty accurate out to the 200 yards that I've fired it.
could you pls. tell me where you picked up your socom 16. the other half just walked in while i was browsing the springfield site and immediately said, i want that one! thanks.
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Heavies, thats true. Sports authority got the savage 30-06 on sale for $250 with scope. I think the .308 is pretty close in price. I was thinking of just picking one up and going from there. At least that route i have a baseline, can shoot and have a idea to judge other riffles from. On the other hand they say save up for what you want, instead of getting something cheaper and not liking it. Hahahahaa.
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I have a Remington PSS in .308 and a Springfield Socom 16 in .308 and absolutely love both of them.
Different beasts for different burdens.
The PSS is incredibly accurate. I've never had any problem with the trigger at all.
The Socom is a phenomenal battle rifle with plenty of power and plenty accurate out to the 200 yards that I've fired it.
could you pls. tell me where you picked up your socom 16. the other half just walked in while i was browsing the springfield site and immediately said, i want that one! thanks.
I had the guys at Security Equipment order it for me.
I absolutely love that rifle.
If .308 ammo was less expensive, I'd shoot it a lot more.
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I have a Remington PSS in .308 and a Springfield Socom 16 in .308 and absolutely love both of them.
Different beasts for different burdens.
The PSS is incredibly accurate. I've never had any problem with the trigger at all.
The Socom is a phenomenal battle rifle with plenty of power and plenty accurate out to the 200 yards that I've fired it.
could you pls. tell me where you picked up your socom 16. the other half just walked in while i was browsing the springfield site and immediately said, i want that one! thanks.
I had the guys at Security Equipment order it for me.
I absolutely love that rifle.
If .308 ammo was less expensive, I'd shoot it a lot more.
thanks! i'll make some calls tomorrow. too bad she has to wait. thanks again.
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Heavies, thats true. Sports authority got the savage 30-06 on sale for $250 with scope. I think the .308 is pretty close in price. I was thinking of just picking one up and going from there. At least that route i have a baseline, can shoot and have a idea to judge other riffles from. On the other hand they say save up for what you want, instead of getting something cheaper and not liking it. Hahahahaa.
That is probably the Savage Axis. From everything I've read, it is a pretty decent rifle for the money. It doesn't have all the configuration options, but it can get you a decent rifle with decent accuracy that you could hunt with if you wanted to. Rifle Basix even makes a drop in trigger if you want to change that out.
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I have a Remington PSS in .308 and a Springfield Socom 16 in .308 and absolutely love both of them.
Different beasts for different burdens.
The PSS is incredibly accurate. I've never had any problem with the trigger at all.
The Socom is a phenomenal battle rifle with plenty of power and plenty accurate out to the 200 yards that I've fired it.
could you pls. tell me where you picked up your socom 16. the other half just walked in while i was browsing the springfield site and immediately said, i want that one! thanks.
I had the guys at Security Equipment order it for me.
I absolutely love that rifle.
If .308 ammo was less expensive, I'd shoot it a lot more.
thanks! i'll make some calls tomorrow. too bad she has to wait. thanks again.
Call OGC too for a price comparison. Their prices are usually pretty good.
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I was also looking for a 308 recently and I gotta say the 700 are nice guns but there are better guns out there for the same price. I really like the Tikka T3. In the end I got a Ruger gun scout and highly recommend it.