The second time, did you aim high and right on the paper?


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WGS has been selling a unmarked white box of 9mm hollow points for about $35.00/50rds. I recently was told that these are reloads from their shop. Just a heads up, i was checking some of the rounds in my case gauge and a few of them were not resized properly. Does this affect performance. I guess only if it doesn't fit.

Can you take some pics of the rounds that didn't pass the plunk test?  I'm interested in seeing the bullet, case mouth, and crimp (or possible lack thereof).

also, i'm curious what kind of bullet the manufacturer used.

I'm thinking of firing up my progressive and pumping out a bunch of 9mm and 45.  What website has the best prices per bullet?

I'm looking for something that is either coated or plated.  I don't mind jacketed, but those bullets tend to be more expensive.

I'm planning on buying in bulk (probably 3,000 or more projectiles).

I sometimes load with 8208 XBR. If I remember correctly, I got very few cut kernels in a powder throw.

At the time, it was one of the few 308/223 suitable powders I could find.

I also load with Varget, Reloder 15 (when I can find it for a decent price), and Ramshot TAC (bc it’s cheap). I probably would load with CFE 223 if I could find a decent price on a keg.

In general, I’m a big fan of extruded powders for 308 precision loads. They tend to be less sensitive to minor variances in charge weight.

One thing I wish I had when I was first starting to reload for rifle is one of those digital auto tricklers. I have a Hornady one now and I can’t imagine ever going back. It’s worth the money especially if you’re doing load development.


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Thanks for the info on the methods.  I was more looking for people's personal preference or practice.

New to reloading, but have guidance of many long time reloaders.  Will also be using their workshops, so will have "eyes on" the majority of the time, especially to start. 

Powder measure?  Speaking of rabbit hole, not that far.  Was talking with one of my buddies and we're not going to that uber accurate scale.  I am picking up some equipment to supplement one buddy's workshop and it's not that uber accurate level (and cost).  Same with other equipment, at least for now.  While most are "good stuff", not the uber accurate stuff.  That said, neither of us are after that gnats ass accuracy.  At least not at this time.  I don't think I will, but who knows.  I do know and shot with benchrest folks and what they consider as "minimally competitive", I'm like that's pretty darn good. 

Primers is another.  While I was able to find a brick locally, selection was pretty much whatever is available.  And I'm good with that. 

Understood on shooter capability.  With my stock Rem 700 and Hogue stock and Remington factory ammo, I was able to shoot that setup easily in the sub 1.0 moa average.  Group sizes was smaller with FGMM.  I'd have to check my notes.  Then again, while I'm not really after benchrest standards, always good to push things and see what is the "best I can get".  At least with the components I have on hand.

If that’s the case, I recommend chronographing the FGMM through your gun and simply replicating that load. If you need more accuracy, then make minor tweaks to that, but the FGMM should be your baseline


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I haven’t done any work up load development in a while, but I recall that the Scott Satterlee method seemed to work well for me.

I was actually doing something similar to the OCW (optimal charge weight) method, but I also kept the chrono data. When I graphed out the data, it seemed to follow the same idea as Satterlee’s method, which led me to believe that he’s actually onto something.

If you’re looking for Hornady ELD load data, you should be able to use the AMAX data. The bullets are extremely similar in most specifications. I think the primary difference is that the ELD uses a new material for the polymer tip. Hornady realized that the polymer used in the older AMAX was melting and deforming during supersonic flight, which caused the BC to lower over distance. The Polymer used in the ELD supposedly addresses this problem.


Here’s some data I got from my Ruger Precision Rifle, which uses a 20” barrel:

Hornady 168gr A-Max Match
2580
2569
2552
2565
2580
Average 2569
SD 11
ES 28


I generally found that my best groups were in the 2500-2600 FPS range for 168gr loads. More specifically somewhere around 2550 or a tad above that. Of course your mileage may vary bc you’re using a different gun, but I did notice that a lot of the Remington guys with 20” barrels were also getting good results around that same velocity.

They're open weekdays at 8am?

Holiday hours

Just FYI, but you can always send your slide away for an optics cut.

JL did two of my VP9s (i sold one of them to a friend).  when i got my cuts (different years) it cost me $50 for the cut itself.  it was only $50 more if you wanted the slide cerakoted.  he regularly does sales; the most recent one was at the start of the COVID-19 lock down.  My optics sit lower on my slide compared to the guns that use an adapter plate from the factory (i.e. Glock MOS, VP9 Optics Ready, etc.).  here's his website:  https://jlmachiningworks.com/

of the ones you're considering, I have a p320 RX compact, a glock 17 gen 3 (non MOS), and a VP9.  i haven't tried the g17 with an optic yet, but my slide is cut to accept it.

my general thoughts:
- the ergos on the glocks kind of suck in general, but the gen 5 is definitely an improvement over the gen 3 and 4.  the vp9 has the best ergonomics by far.  the p320 has a near limitless potential for improved grip because of the modularity.  i currently run mine with a sig x-carry grip module, but there are at least a few aftermarket grip module manufacturers joining the market.  even wilson combat makes grip modules for the p320 now.
- the vp9 is slightly more snappy than the p320, but barely noticeable unless you're shooting them back to back.  the glock 17 isn't very snappy, but that could be bc i was using a G17L slide and barrel.
- sig and HK mags are expensive, but they occasionally go on sale.  you just need to wait for the deals.  I have a ton of 10-round HK mags if you're looking to buy some.  glock mags will always be cheaper than the sig and hk mags.
- no matter how much you upgrade the glock trigger, it will still feel worse than a stock vp9 trigger.  you probably will not notice it much until you get more accustomed to shooting handguns.  some people don't care and aren't trigger snobs whereas some people are.  some people are such good shooters that they will shoot fine with a stock glock trigger.  however, keep in mind that the gen 5 glock trigger definitely feels better than the gen 3 and 4.
- glocks are very customizable.  i started with a serialized/registered stripped glock lower (not P80) and bought all of the parts individually to assemble the whole gun.  having never worked on glocks before, i can tell you that they're impossibly simple to assemble.  keep in mind that i've also detail stripped my vp9, which is a pain in the ass.  you can really see where the HK engineers put real brain power into designing that gun, which is part of why it has such a nice factory trigger.
- keep in mind that there are a lot of vendors selling out-of-spec glock parts, or parts that really have no purpose other than looking cool.  if you go down that route, you can possibly end up with an expensive gun with very little improvement to performance.
- the aftermarket for the p320 is growing substantially.  if looking cool is important to you, then you will soon have a lot of options.
- it always surprised me that glock didn't make a competition model.  sig has their x-five, x-five legion, and (soon to be released) x-five alpha.  HK has made competition guns in the past with their USP line and they have a long slide kit available for the vp9.  glock has their 17L and their 34, but they both seem like a really low effort from the company.


in general, i recommend that you buy a full size pistol.  anything in the compact category will be more difficult for you to shoot.  you can always buy a compact pistol later when you are better at shooting pistols.  the additional weight of a full size will help with the recoil and the added grip size will help with controlling the gun.  i wear an XL size glove and my pinky falls off the bottom of a glock 19.  keep in mind that the first brand new pistol i bought was a vp9 and i'd probably do it again.

Always with the negative waves, Moriarity, always with the negative waves.   

He writes in poems.

It's almost like he's writing...

a pew pew Haiku!