What would you have done? (Read 18800 times)

omnigun

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #140 on: October 21, 2020, 04:02:58 PM »
Omni, I don’t harp on you as there is plenty to go around....
But why do you own a gun ?
You’re certainly gonna have to harm somebody to protect yourself with a gun.

Self defense and sport,  I don't think you can relate spreading covid to self defense. 

I think of it like this way.  I am allowed firearms I am responsible for the usage. If I use a gun and take a life, its because I was threatened and in self defense.  All actions are controlled by myself.
Someone can't show a general study of firearms and violence to prove that guns are dangerous. I control the gun so its only dangerous is I am.

If I cough with no protection and give someone covid and they die can I say it was controlled by myself?   If I know I have covid thats bad, but what if I don't?  You can't relate the two things
Someone can show a general study about the spread of covid because I can't really control my infection spread (asymptomatic).  I don't really have much control over spread and infection rate. 

omnigun

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #141 on: October 21, 2020, 04:04:21 PM »
He's not a defender.

He's a collector.

 :popcorn:

Why can't I be both :D  I like to shoot, I like to collect, and if I had to I would use it to defend.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #142 on: October 21, 2020, 04:05:23 PM »
Self defense and sport,  I don't think you can relate spreading covid to self defense. 

I think of it like this way.  I am allowed firearms I am responsible for the usage. If I use a gun and take a life, its because I was threatened and in self defense.  All actions are controlled by myself.
Someone can't show a general study of firearms and violence to prove that guns are dangerous.

If I cough with no protection and give someone covid and they die can I say it was controlled by myself?   If I know I have covid thats bad, but what if I don't?  You can't relate the two things
Someone can show a general study about the spread of covid because I can't really control my infection spread (asymptomatic)

I get it.

All you're asking for is Common Sense Covid-19 Control laws ....
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

omnigun

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #143 on: October 21, 2020, 04:11:53 PM »
I get it.

All you're asking for is Common Sense Covid-19 Control laws ....

I know the way you are phrasing it is against me,  but yes. 

"Common sense" covid control is actual common sense. 

"common sense gun control laws"  is not common sense.


Having someone wear a stupid mask isnt the same as taking their gun rights away.  They are free to not leave the house if they dont want to wear the mask.   As for the gun laws you have no options.  And its a constitutional right.  I don't see not wearing masks in the constitution. 

If you accept liability for spreading covid like you accept liability for shooting someone then it will be fine.   No need masks or lockdown. Better hope you spread covid in self defense.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 04:18:14 PM by omnigun »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #144 on: October 21, 2020, 04:58:19 PM »
I know the way you are phrasing it is against me,  but yes. 

"Common sense" covid control is actual common sense. 

"common sense gun control laws"  is not common sense.


Having someone wear a stupid mask isnt the same as taking their gun rights away.  They are free to not leave the house if they dont want to wear the mask.   As for the gun laws you have no options.  And its a constitutional right.  I don't see not wearing masks in the constitution. 

If you accept liability for spreading covid like you accept liability for shooting someone then it will be fine.   No need masks or lockdown. Better hope you spread covid in self defense.

Wearing a mask can be enforced without a national mandate.  Personally, I'm all for covering up many of the faces out there.   :shake:

Do you even read what you post?  I'll keep asking until you stop posting stupid shit.

"They are free to not leave the house if they dont want to wear the mask."  Is that right?

Let me fix it for you.

They are not free to leave the house unless they wear a mask. 

Funny how you turned house arrest into being "free" to not go out unless you comply.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

omnigun

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #145 on: October 21, 2020, 06:03:40 PM »
Wearing a mask can be enforced without a national mandate.  Personally, I'm all for covering up many of the faces out there.   :shake:

Do you even read what you post?  I'll keep asking until you stop posting stupid shit.

"They are free to not leave the house if they dont want to wear the mask."  Is that right?

Let me fix it for you.

They are not free to leave the house unless they wear a mask. 

Funny how you turned house arrest into being "free" to not go out unless you comply.

I said unless they accept being liable for any damages. If they get someone sick and they die they are liable for that.  I would support that too.  I'm just saying if you put others at risk than you better be prepared to face the consequences.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #146 on: October 21, 2020, 06:07:20 PM »
I said unless they accept being liable for any damages. If they get someone sick and they die they are liable for that.  I would support that too.  I'm just saying if you put others at risk than you better be prepared to face the consequences.

So, you're saying it's not about prevention.  it's about punishing anyone who may or may not have been the cause of another person getting the virus?

How does one go about assigning that liability?

Why are you not worried about prevention over punishment?  What liability would there be?  How rich would the lawyers become trying to prove/disprove causal responsibility?

Can we sue China?
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

omnigun

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #147 on: October 21, 2020, 07:45:59 PM »
So, you're saying it's not about prevention.  it's about punishing anyone who may or may not have been the cause of another person getting the virus?

How does one go about assigning that liability?

Why are you not worried about prevention over punishment?  What liability would there be?  How rich would the lawyers become trying to prove/disprove causal responsibility?

Can we sue China?

I'm saying if you act like an idiot 🙄 you might face some consequences. Masks are the prevention  :crazy: but you are literally advocating to avoid it.... :crazy:

I'm actually fine with Sueing China.  They handled it poorly and pretty sure they let it spread to bring down the world with them. 

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #148 on: October 21, 2020, 09:04:48 PM »
I'm saying if you act like an idiot 🙄 you might face some consequences. Masks are the prevention  :crazy: but you are literally advocating to avoid it.... :crazy:

I'm actually fine with Sueing China.  They handled it poorly and pretty sure they let it spread to bring down the world with them.

Did I ever once say, "Do not wear a mask?"  Ever?

Stop lying, Om-impotent one.

You can make recommendations that we wear masks, and businesses, homes and gov't offices can mandate their wear, but to make it a crime is ludicrous.

There's nothing that's going to prevent the virus short of a vaccine.  Trump got it along with a few high level people in DC, and that made national headlines for days.  About the time it was obvious Trump wasn't going to die, and a coup under the cover of a 25th Amendment removal wasn't viable, Kamala Harris' campaign reported a handful of positive tested campaign members.  Didn't see the same level of finger pointing and death wishes then, huh?  Barely a blip on the MSM COVID-19 radar.

It's a VIRUS.  It's not something you can stop by wearing masks.  It might slow the spread, as we were told was the reason for masks in the beginning -- slow the spread to flatten the curve and prevent overwhelming ERs and ICUs.

The curve has been flatlined for awhile.  Setting a goal of "preventing infections" is unrealistic.  Masks have a purpose, and stopping the spread of the virus so more people aren't infected is not the message to be sending.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

changemyoil66

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #149 on: October 21, 2020, 09:11:39 PM »
Laws that violate rights are never good. U say common sense covid laws, but disagree with common sense gun control laws. Others will say common sense (cs) gun laws should be allowed.

Some say CS covid laws are bad. So who is right and who is wrong?

And each use the excuse, "for the greater good". Each also have studies which ur looking for. Go visit a MDA or ET page. They got lots of studies that show your guns might harm someone. Both u and I know the studies are BS, but theyre still studies.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

omnigun

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #150 on: October 21, 2020, 10:13:43 PM »
Laws that violate rights are never good. U say common sense covid laws, but disagree with common sense gun control laws. Others will say common sense (cs) gun laws should be allowed.

Some say CS covid laws are bad. So who is right and who is wrong?

And each use the excuse, "for the greater good". Each also have studies which ur looking for. Go visit a MDA or ET page. They got lots of studies that show your guns might harm someone. Both u and I know the studies are BS, but theyre still studies.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Since when were there going to be covid laws?  Don't recall anyone introducing any.  I think its funny that people are blowing out of proportion a requirement to wear a piece of cloth on your face when you go out in the public.  Yall didn't fight this hard against requiring people wear swimsuits at the beach.  But I guess public decency > public health

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #151 on: October 22, 2020, 12:32:03 AM »
Since when were there going to be covid laws?  Don't recall anyone introducing any.  I think its funny that people are blowing out of proportion a requirement to wear a piece of cloth on your face when you go out in the public.  Yall didn't fight this hard against requiring people wear swimsuits at the beach.  But I guess public decency > public health

You can't stay on point, even in your own replies.

The reason Hawaii doesn't have any COVID-19 laws is the Governor and Mayors are illegally substituting their will for that of the legislature.  Nobody voted Ige and Caldwell as our representatives.  Those people sit in the legislature.

According to Hawaii law, the State and City can declare a state of emergency in cases such as a pandemic for a max of 60 days.  Beyond that time, the Legislature is supposed to be making the rules. 

I find it "FUNNY" that you're all about making rules and enforcing them with fines and lawsuits, even arrests, when the PEOPLE have no say in the matter.

Why do you support tyrannical authoritarianism and reject individual freedom?  Over fear?  Fear of a germ that does not follow any laws except that of nature?

As for "COVID LAWS", Biden said on day one of his administration, he would issue a nationwide mandate to wear masks and socially distance.  True, he can't make new laws, but he can enact executive orders under existing law, which then has the full authority and weight of law.

Implementation of laws already in existence don't require Congress to make a new bill.  The President is the Executive and has the power/duty to implement the laws already passed.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

omnigun

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #152 on: October 22, 2020, 06:42:32 AM »
You can't stay on point, even in your own replies.

The reason Hawaii doesn't have any COVID-19 laws is the Governor and Mayors are illegally substituting their will for that of the legislature.  Nobody voted Ige and Caldwell as our representatives.  Those people sit in the legislature.

According to Hawaii law, the State and City can declare a state of emergency in cases such as a pandemic for a max of 60 days.  Beyond that time, the Legislature is supposed to be making the rules. 

I find it "FUNNY" that you're all about making rules and enforcing them with fines and lawsuits, even arrests, when the PEOPLE have no say in the matter.

Why do you support tyrannical authoritarianism and reject individual freedom?  Over fear?  Fear of a germ that does not follow any laws except that of nature?

As for "COVID LAWS", Biden said on day one of his administration, he would issue a nationwide mandate to wear masks and socially distance.  True, he can't make new laws, but he can enact executive orders under existing law, which then has the full authority and weight of law.

Implementation of laws already in existence don't require Congress to make a new bill.  The President is the Executive and has the power/duty to implement the laws already passed.

Because I include the freedom of those not to get infected.  Personal freedom works until you take away someone else's freedoms. We are a country in times of great need you sacrifice some personal freedom temporary for the greater good of the nation.  In all our major wars this happened via gas, food  or manufacturing. This also happened for the Spanish flu, etc.  In pretty consistent in my replies.... though you do have a point about the 60 days. Perhaps if they passed a law renewing masks for a time limited that would be fine.  As for Biden I have no issues with an temporary executive order mandating masks in public. Just like if we were at war with China and the president told us all to help the war effort.

ren

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #153 on: October 22, 2020, 07:53:48 AM »
Because I include the freedom of those not to get infected.  Personal freedom works until you take away someone else's freedoms. We are a country in times of great need you sacrifice some personal freedom temporary for the greater good of the nation.  In all our major wars this happened via gas, food  or manufacturing. This also happened for the Spanish flu, etc.  In pretty consistent in my replies.... though you do have a point about the 60 days. Perhaps if they passed a law renewing masks for a time limited that would be fine.  As for Biden I have no issues with an temporary executive order mandating masks in public. Just like if we were at war with China and the president told us all to help the war effort.

this is a very slippery slope.
executive order on masks. like others have said it is the mandate of a few in power - not the people. Emergency proclamations are for that. Imagine if he did an executive order banning guns citing a skewed medical study that points to guns as the root cause
Deeds Not Words

omnigun

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #154 on: October 22, 2020, 08:22:46 AM »
this is a very slippery slope.
executive order on masks. like others have said it is the mandate of a few in power - not the people. Emergency proclamations are for that. Imagine if he did an executive order banning guns citing a skewed medical study that points to guns as the root cause

I do party agree its a slightly wet slope, though masks have been done before in other pandemics so there's precedent and its not protected under the constitution.  So kinda apples vs oranges.

ren

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #155 on: October 22, 2020, 08:34:41 AM »
I do party agree its a slightly wet slope, though masks have been done before in other pandemics so there's precedent and its not protected under the constitution.  So kinda apples vs oranges.

try explaining apples and oranges to a person like Biden and his supporters. I am not willing to gamble my rights on them
Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #156 on: October 22, 2020, 09:15:03 AM »
Since when were there going to be covid laws?  Don't recall anyone introducing any.  I think its funny that people are blowing out of proportion a requirement to wear a piece of cloth on your face when you go out in the public.  Yall didn't fight this hard against requiring people wear swimsuits at the beach.  But I guess public decency > public health

I do think that Ige and Kirk are both exceeding their 60 day emergency power.  But according to the AG, they are not.  #notanattorney.  The AG recently sent a letter about it being legal.

There is a HI law that allow women to be topless in public.  About 10 years a go, a couple of girls promoted this.  1 even went to court and won.  The other works at Ford.

Personally, I could also care less if someone's wearing a mask or not.  I wear mine because I don't want to breath in anything that person may have.  If they want to get sick, it's on them.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #157 on: October 22, 2020, 09:18:43 AM »
Because I include the freedom of those not to get infected.  Personal freedom works until you take away someone else's freedoms. We are a country in times of great need you sacrifice some personal freedom temporary for the greater good of the nation.  In all our major wars this happened via gas, food  or manufacturing. This also happened for the Spanish flu, etc.  In pretty consistent in my replies.... though you do have a point about the 60 days. Perhaps if they passed a law renewing masks for a time limited that would be fine.  As for Biden I have no issues with an temporary executive order mandating masks in public. Just like if we were at war with China and the president told us all to help the war effort.

Show me in the constitution where it's my responsibility as an individual, or the federal government's, to prevent harm from coming to anyone?  Other than "National Defense", there is no such individual right to protection -- not even from disease.

I suppose the same right to being protected from disease is right next to rights to free college, free healthcare, free money, not to be offended, .....
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

omnigun

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #158 on: October 22, 2020, 09:24:44 AM »
Show me in the constitution where it's my responsibility as an individual, or the federal government's, to prevent harm from coming to anyone?  Other than "National Defense", there is no such individual right to protection -- not even from disease.

I suppose the same right to being protected from disease is right next to rights to free college, free healthcare, free money, not to be offended, .....

Its a national defense issue.  We are letting our own citizens die.  Don't you think china is sitting back laughing their asses off? 

drck1000

Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #159 on: October 22, 2020, 09:28:46 AM »
Its a national defense issue.  We are letting our own citizens die.  Don't you think china is sitting back laughing their asses off?
“2 billion mo wea dey came from”

 :rofl: