Post by: changemyoil66 on March 02, 2024, 12:06:25 PM
The "amendments" did almost nothing as parts are still banned.
Mags arent grandfathered in.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: macsak on March 02, 2024, 12:20:09 PM
Email and call your senator by 3/4 to vote no.
The "amendments" did almost nothing as parts are still banned.
Mags arent grandfathered in.
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Post by: wirecounter on March 02, 2024, 01:46:33 PM
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
Post by: randay on March 02, 2024, 05:05:55 PM
send those emails guys!
email addresses here:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/legislature/legislators.aspx?chamber=S
Post by: hvybarrels on March 03, 2024, 11:37:14 AM
A. Expecting a crisis
B. Planning something horrible
C. Terrified of a revolt
D. All of the above
Color within the lines but color boldly
Post by: Jaco808 on March 03, 2024, 12:18:05 PM
Get spicy. Tell them you’re pissed off. Government is out of control and they wouldn’t be doing this if they weren’t
A. Expecting a crisis
B. Planning something horrible
C. Terrified of a revolt
D. All of the above
Color within the lines but color boldly
No. We want to seem reasonable. Not crazy conspirists...
Post by: hvybarrels on March 03, 2024, 12:22:33 PM
No. We want to seem reasonable. Not crazy conspirists...
How's "being reasonable" working out for you so far? Because to me it looks an awful lot like losing.
Post by: SonRunner on March 03, 2024, 12:42:55 PM
Post by: SonRunner on March 03, 2024, 12:47:28 PM
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=3196&year=2024
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 03, 2024, 12:56:32 PM
How's "being reasonable" working out for you so far? Because to me it looks an awful lot like losing.
The most moderate, reasonable conservative is called a radical right-wing extremist -- just because they have opposing opinions.
No sense in chasing acceptance from people who control the narrative and have no problem lying about their opponents.
The liars are the ones going on the talk shows, news channels and pod casts, so that's the only image they will ever get of us/you.
If you simply say you support the second amendment, that's really all they need to label you as a right-wing extremist.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 03, 2024, 01:08:42 PM
The most moderate, reasonable conservative is called a radical right-wing extremist -- just because they have opposing opinions.
No sense in chasing acceptance from people who control the narrative and have no problem lying about their opponents.
The liars are the ones going on the talk shows, news channels and pod casts, so that's the only image they will ever get of us/you.
If you simply say you support the second amendment, that's really all they need to label you as a right-wing extremist.
Exactly. They use fear to control us just like in the pandemic. Show that you are not afraid and they start to panic and make concessions.
Post by: macsak on March 03, 2024, 01:26:24 PM
Anyone know which version is the most current, "SB3196_SD1" or "SB3196"?
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=3196&year=2024
Post by: randay on March 03, 2024, 01:45:30 PM
If this bad SB3196 gets passed by the Hawaii Senate, then what happens next? Does it go to the Governor for approval?
it goes to the house side for a round of whatevers.
Post by: macsak on March 03, 2024, 01:47:58 PM
If this bad SB3196 gets passed by the Hawaii Senate, then what happens next? Does it go to the Governor for approval?
goes to the house to get assigned to committees...
Post by: Begle1 on March 03, 2024, 01:52:34 PM
SD1
I swear that the text on this link has changed since it was first put up.
Section 134-8 listed Assault Rifles and Assault Shotguns as well as Assault Pistols and Assault Weapon Attachments at first and I was quite confused because everybody was saying it no longer did. Am I nuts? Maybe.
At least I understand what everybody else is saying now.
Post by: randay on March 03, 2024, 03:04:19 PM
I swear that the text on this link has changed since it was first put up.
Section 134-8 listed Assault Rifles and Assault Shotguns as well as Assault Pistols and Assault Weapon Attachments at first and I was quite confused because everybody was saying it no longer did. Am I nuts? Maybe.
At least I understand what everybody else is saying now.
it hasnt changed, its very easy to view the wrong version. always double check!
Post by: macsak on March 03, 2024, 03:23:48 PM
error of omission or commission? SB 3196- PLEASE OPPOSE
aloha senator please oppose SB 3196 SD!!! we were told that the amendments eliminated the assault rifle and assault shotgun bans. in actuality, by leaving in the ban on "assault weapons attachments" the ban not only encompasses so called assault rifles and assault shotguns, it bans almost all firearms and airsoft and toys. JDC Committee Chair Rhoads said himself that the bans had been removed at the hearing and in the press. was the inclusion of the attachments in error or on purpose? it doesn't matter at this point, but clearly this bill has been passed in bad faith either way and should be killed
mahalo
macsak
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 03, 2024, 04:03:02 PM
If this bad SB3196 gets passed by the Hawaii Senate, then what happens next? Does it go to the Governor for approval?It goes to the House side and has its own committees to go thru.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 03, 2024, 04:03:11 PM
Anyone know which version is the most current, "SB3196_SD1" or "SB3196"?SD1
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=3196&year=2024
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: macsak on March 03, 2024, 04:07:01 PM
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=52840.msg476233#msg476233
It goes to the House side and has its own committees to go thru.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: macsak on March 03, 2024, 04:07:46 PM
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=52840.msg476230#msg476230
SD1
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: macsak on March 03, 2024, 06:49:43 PM
error of omission or commission? SB 3196- PLEASE OPPOSE
aloha senator please oppose SB 3196 SD!!! we were told that the amendments eliminated the assault rifle and assault shotgun bans. in actuality, by leaving in the ban on "assault weapons attachments" the ban not only encompasses so called assault rifles and assault shotguns, it bans almost all firearms and airsoft and toys. JDC Committee Chair Rhoads said himself that the bans had been removed at the hearing and in the press. was the inclusion of the attachments in error or on purpose? it doesn't matter at this point, but clearly this bill has been passed in bad faith either way and should be killed
mahalo
macsak
Post by: AmbuBadger on March 03, 2024, 09:10:09 PM
sens@capitol.hawaii.gov
I tried this email address and got a failure notice stating that it had an "improper hop count." Might have to email each individually after copying the initial email text...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 03, 2024, 09:26:12 PM
I tried this email address and got a failure notice stating that it had an "improper hop count." Might have to email each individually after copying the initial email text...Short answer & possible solution:
Try sending from your provider's web interface -- not your computer's email client software. Just use your browser to connect and send. Or, you can try sending from an alternate email account. if you're getting messages returned using Spectrum/RoadRunner, try changing the FROM address in your client software to your GMail address if you use that.
Long answer (might be the problem, or might not be):
That can happen if you're connected to the internet somewhere other than a server on the same network as your email address.
For example, I was unable to send email with my FROM address set to @hawaii.rr.com unless I was directly connected to my home network (RoadRunner, now Spectrum). I could use a Roadrunner public access point (hot spot) that are all over the island, but i rarely used those. I'd connect at work or in a hotel room, and the email got returned as if i was sending SPAM.
One workaround is to not use the RoadRunner/Spectrum server for outgoing mail. GMail from Google allows SMTP messages from any US network. So, i set my laptop to receive using the RoadRunner POP/IMAP services, but my outgoing messages always went out via GMail SMTP -- even if i was using my RoadRunner FROM address.
Not sure if Roadrunner or Spectrum -- or any other Hawaii service provider -- is still blocking outside SMTP requests. I haven't need to to that for a while now. But, it's something to try at least.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 03, 2024, 09:33:48 PM
Post by: macsak on March 03, 2024, 09:43:33 PM
I tried this email address and got a failure notice stating that it had an "improper hop count." Might have to email each individually after copying the initial email text...
people have been getting the error message if they send to sens@hawaii.gov...
Post by: Begle1 on March 04, 2024, 12:04:43 AM
To my Senators;
Please be aware that SB3196, in its current condition, suffers from severe ambiguity, and is a terrible piece of legislation regardless of how you feel about the role of firearms in our society.
1) By defining "assault weapon attachments" as any device capable of being attached to a firearm that is specifically designed for making or converting a firearm into an assault pistol, assault rifle, or assault shotgun, the bill either bans almost everything or nothing, depending on interpretation.
To explain, many non-semiauto firearms have folding stocks, flash suppressors, pistol grips, foregrips, or the other items that would make them an "assault weapon" if they were semiauto. These items could theoretically be removed from the non-semiauto gun and placed onto a semiauto-gun... So... Would anybody who owns these devices be breaking the law? Would lever- or bolt-action guns be illegal simply because they are fitted with components that could be considered "assault weapon attachments"?
Or does "specifically designed" mean that nothing would count as an "assault weapon attachment" as long as it had a single other use other than being installed on a semiauto weapon? Because then nothing would be an assault weapon attachment.
It is Schrodinger's language that'd simultaneously means nothing and everything.
2) SB3196 also seeks to change the "assault pistol" test from allowing one listed characteristic to allowing NO listed characteristics. Those who originally drafted this language were making an effort to avoid banning firearms like specialized target pistols just because they were too big or had their magazine in the "wrong place". By changing the "one" to a "zero", this bill would turn the original legislative intent on its head, and would ban a great number of specialized firearms that were originally particularly exempted because they had no practical criminal use. (There is also a further matter of ambiguity regarding what "a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm" is, which has always been a point of contention, but would now be more pertinent since they'd be specifically banned. eg Would all Glocks now be illegal, just because somebody somewhere has a fully automatic version of a Glock?)
3) SB3196 also seeks to ban 50 caliber rifles regardless of which 50 caliber cartridge they're using; there are reasonable hunting calibers that would be banned by this. Federal law already regulates calibers above .50, so this bill seeks to arbitrarily set the allowable limit to .4999, and there is no sound logic in this. There is nothing that a 50 caliber rifle can do that a slightly smaller rifle couldn't; various jurisdictions such as California have passed similar legislation, which has spurred development of not-quite-50 caliber rifles.
4) The "assault weapon" definitions themselves look familiar because they are copy-and-pasted legislation that is so firmly rooted in the 80's that it's embarrassing. Bayonet mounts do not plague our communities. Some specific guns listed don't even practically exist, and not only does legislating-by-name create a whack-a-mole scenario similar to legislating-by-caliber, but this particular game has been going on for decades, and the included list is at least a little ridiculous if you much know about guns. (And it's recurrently evident while reading through this bill, that whoever assembled it does not, in fact, know much at all about guns.)
I hope you find these points sufficient to vote NO on SB3196, without needing to rehash the perennial rationale regarding the role of firearms in our society. Which, to summarize:
• Humans have a fundamental right to self-defense;
• A corollary to that right is the right to possess and practice with a weapon useful for self-defense, for what use would be a right if you were only granted it the moment you had need of it?
• The right to self-defense does not cease to exist simply because you are attacked by a certain number of assailants;
• Law enforcement has the same right to self-defense as any other citizen; if our police carry or have access to a weapon, then that weapon must have a reasonable and legal use-case in our community;
• Section 17 of the Hawaii Bill of Rights, the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution, and the state and federal laws that place a large percentage of residents into the unorganized militia, exist for the hard times rather than the easy times;
• The "security of a free state" can and has been threatened not only by foreign governments, or corrupt local governments, but also by organized crime, religious fundamentalists, domestic or international terrorism, angry mobs motivated by hatred or vigilante fervor, unchecked commercial interests with mercenaries, etc;
• The private possession of firearms, even the mere possibility of privately possessed firearms, serves as a deterrent to those who would threaten the security and stability of our communities; imagine how different the world looks to a bigoted lynch mob, or a rapist, or a strong-armed racketeer wanting to extort protection money, if they know that their targets are incapable of defending themselves.
• Countries invest money into their defense industries in hope they'll never need the weapons and battle plans they develop; this theory of deterrence is little different on the personal level; is it more logical to hope you never need to fire the gun you do have, or to hope you'll never need the gun you don't have?
We live in a privileged era, or perhaps at the tail end of one. Mass gun violence is a terrible blight. The atrophy of our social communities, the destruction of our natural world, and the nihilism of our politics is also terrible. But ambiguous law that creates more questions than answers is no solution. Banning pistols or rifles for being too physically large is no answer. Putting a list of guns featured in Schwarzenegger movies into the HRS is no answer.
Please oppose SB3196;
Thank you for your time;
Post by: hvybarrels on March 04, 2024, 12:59:43 AM
My email blast is below. I don't expect anybody to read it but it makes me feel better to write it.
I agree with your points, it's just excessively verbose and difficult to read.
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 04, 2024, 07:40:55 AM
Mine was a tad more simple, just hitting upon the concerns the 2a community has about how the Bill passed the two committees and the strange changes that were made in the 2nd hearing.
I basically followed macsaks post earlier:
sens@capitol.hawaii.gov
error of omission or commission? SB 3196- PLEASE OPPOSE
aloha senator please oppose SB 3196 SD!!! we were told that the amendments eliminated the assault rifle and assault shotgun bans. in actuality, by leaving in the ban on "assault weapons attachments" the ban not only encompasses so called assault rifles and assault shotguns, it bans almost all firearms and airsoft and toys. JDC Committee Chair Rhoads said himself that the bans had been removed at the hearing and in the press. was the inclusion of the attachments in error or on purpose? it doesn't matter at this point, but clearly this bill has been passed in bad faith either way and should be killed
mahalo
Not exactly verbatim but along the same lines.
edited to add: I also mentioned about the 2a community's concerns about the same people sending testimony on cut and paste forms multiple times, thereby inflating the actual number of testimonies in support of the Bill. I questioned if this inflated number influenced the committees in their decision making as to whether the bill will die or pass in committee.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 04, 2024, 08:11:51 AM
Post by: drck1000 on March 04, 2024, 08:12:16 AM
Post by: oldfart on March 04, 2024, 08:27:20 AM
Note:
There seemed to be a LOT more people shooting on both days. I ran out of flyers.
Another thing I noticed was there were a lot of people teaching their kids how to shoot on the rifle AND pistol side.
Most people I spoke to were "verbally angry" at our legislators. :rofl:
I saw Henry from Prime Sports, and he suggested having a uniform Tshirt made up for when we gather at the capitol for hearings.
I have HIFICO shirts and the Hele Mai shirts.
I think the bright yellow HIFICO shirts would make a good uniform.
Other lobby groups like to use red shirts.
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 04, 2024, 08:36:46 AM
Too bad.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 04, 2024, 09:08:57 AM
people have been getting the error message if they send to sens@hawaii.gov...
I sent two test messages yesterday after this additional info was provided.
One was to sens@hawaii.gov, and the second was to sens@capitol.hawaii.gov.
Result: Only the sens@hawaii.gov was kicked back -- "<<< 554 5.4.14 Hop count exceeded - possible mail loop ATTR34 "
That indicates the correct email address is: sens@capitol.hawaii.gov
:geekdanc: :shaka:
My advice is: if you're using sens@hawaii.gov, STOP IT!! :rofl:
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 04, 2024, 09:21:53 AM
I went to the range on Sat and Sun and passed out printed reminders to everybody there.
Note:
There seemed to be a LOT more people shooting on both days. I ran out of flyers.
Another thing I noticed was there were a lot of people teaching their kids how to shoot on the rifle AND pistol side.
Most people I spoke to were "verbally angry" at our legislators. :rofl:
I saw Henry from Prime Sports, and he suggested having a uniform Tshirt made up for when we gather at the capitol for hearings.
I have HIFICO shirts and the Hele Mai shirts.
I think the bright yellow HIFICO shirts would make a good uniform.
Other lobby groups like to use red shirts.
If this bill passes as is, then you cannot teach your kid to shoot a rifle as it would be illegal to transfer the posession of an "assault weapon accessory" to them. I mean, I guess you could remove the handguard, pistol grip, and flash hider, and buttstock. And give your kid a big oven mitt so they don't burn their hand.
Post by: macsak on March 04, 2024, 10:07:50 AM
I sent two test messages yesterday after this additional info was provided.
One was to sens@hawaii.gov, and the second was to sens@capitol.hawaii.gov.
Result: Only the sens@hawaii.gov was kicked back -- "<<< 554 5.4.14 Hop count exceeded - possible mail loop ATTR34 "
That indicates the correct email address is: sens@capitol.hawaii.gov
:geekdanc: :shaka:
My advice is: if you're using sens@hawaii.gov, STOP IT!! :rofl:
Post by: BRU on March 04, 2024, 10:14:00 AM
If this bill passes as is, then you cannot teach your kid to shoot a rifle as it would be illegal to transfer the posession of an "assault weapon accessory" to them. I mean, I guess you could remove the handguard, pistol grip, and flash hider, and buttstock. And give your kid a big oven mitt so they don't burn their hand.I don’t recall reading any wording that states the attachments need to be installed on the firearm to be prohibited so I assume just the mere possession of it would be a felony.
Post by: oldfart on March 04, 2024, 10:27:39 AM
If this bill passes as is, then you cannot teach your kid to shoot a rifle as it would be illegal to transfer the posession of an "assault weapon accessory" to them. I mean, I guess you could remove the handguard, pistol grip, and flash hider, and buttstock. And give your kid a big oven mitt so they don't burn their hand.========
:rofl:
Post by: randay on March 04, 2024, 11:02:14 AM
I don’t recall reading any wording that states the attachments need to be installed on the firearm to be prohibited so I assume just the mere possession of it would be a felony.
they define it as:
"Assault weapon attachment" means any device capable of being attached to a firearm that is specifically designed for making or converting a firearm into an assault pistol, assault rifle, or assault shotgun.
so it does not need to be attached, just capable of being attached and specifically designed.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 04, 2024, 11:02:54 AM
I don’t recall reading any wording that states the attachments need to be installed on the firearm to be prohibited so I assume just the mere possession of it would be a felony.
You're correct. It doesn't exclude attached accessories. Which means when you hand you kid an AR, there's at bunch of felonies on there for them. Since you cannot transfer possession.
Post by: AmbuBadger on March 04, 2024, 11:12:42 AM
You're correct. It doesn't exclude attached accessories. Which means when you hand you kid an AR, there's at bunch of felonies on there for them. Since you cannot transfer possession.
Same for all those airsoft and paintball gun shops... even Nerf guns take pic rail attachments these days.
Post by: Brystont1 on March 04, 2024, 11:38:16 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on March 04, 2024, 12:10:18 PM
Post by: Brystont1 on March 04, 2024, 12:23:31 PM
I'm still considering how spicy to get. Ideally it would be enough to raise an eyebrow or two but not enough to get on another watch list.
I think you only get spicy if you have the support. Unfortunately we simply don’t have enough on our side. I have 2 guys at my work who are die hard gun guys, hate Hawaii government, yet when I ask them if they sent in testimony it’s “ahh no more time or I forgot” I think just being honest and showing them how it affects you personally is the best way to go about it.
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 04, 2024, 12:32:56 PM
But they nomo time to do something about it. Socializing with friends, drinking, playing computer games and poking each other is more important.
edited to add: Oh wait. It was this thread. Oh well. Worth mentioning twice. :thumbsup:
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 04, 2024, 01:04:42 PM
Same for all those airsoft and paintball gun shops... even Nerf guns take pic rail attachments these days.
Epower submitted testimony.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 04, 2024, 01:06:14 PM
I'm still considering how spicy to get. Ideally it would be enough to raise an eyebrow or two but not enough to get on another watch list.
I've emailed a few senators and called them assholes or something like that. Which but me on their "list" as a staffer almost let it slip when I called and told him my name. "Your name sounds familiar, oh I saw it on the security lis........nevermind."
Post by: Begle1 on March 04, 2024, 01:10:58 PM
We want to look like reasonable people with guns. If we look like angry or crazy people with guns then I imagine that does more harm than good.
It's not the sort of issue where I'd expect highly emotional sob stories to garner sympathy. If I got emotional and started crying about how my $4000 race rifle with $2500 worth of Aimpoint optics on it is going to be banned and how unfair that is after I worked so hard to assemble it or whatever... I don't think it'd come across nearly as well as somebody crying about losing their job, family home, livelihood, or traditional pastime.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 04, 2024, 01:20:40 PM
I'd think it's a bad idea to be spicy at all. It's in gun owners' best interests to present themselves as stable, cool, and completely non-threatening.
We want to look like reasonable people with guns. If we look like angry or crazy people with guns then I imagine that does more harm than good.
It's not the sort of issue where I'd expect highly emotional sob stories to garner sympathy. If I got emotional and started crying about how my $4000 race rifle with $2500 worth of Aimpoint optics on it is going to be banned and how unfair that is after I worked so hard to assemble it or whatever... I don't think it'd come across nearly as well as somebody crying about losing their job, family home, livelihood, or traditional pastime.
There are certain times this applies. But when dealing with other hardcore anti 2A politicians, being nice won't get you anywhere. But being "spicy" makes one feel better a little at least. Think of it like venting. At first I was nice and respectful, as 1 should be. But as the years passed, I saw the way they vote and how being nice got no where.
But in the end, people express their feelings how they want to and that's the beauty of the 1st amendment.
Post by: macsak on March 04, 2024, 01:30:02 PM
people that have met me IRL know what i look like
mayor B told me " i feel threatened right now" when he is twice my size and had his whole cabinet standing behind him and 10-12 hpd officers in the room
all i was doing was speaking calmly and quietly, but i didn't back down when he was trying to bully me by getting in my face
i mean, this allegedly happened to someone who may or may not have been me...
I'd think it's a bad idea to be spicy at all. It's in gun owners' best interests to present themselves as stable, cool, and completely non-threatening.
We want to look like reasonable people with guns. If we look like angry or crazy people with guns then I imagine that does more harm than good.
It's not the sort of issue where I'd expect highly emotional sob stories to garner sympathy. If I got emotional and started crying about how my $4000 race rifle with $2500 worth of Aimpoint optics on it is going to be banned and how unfair that is after I worked so hard to assemble it or whatever... I don't think it'd come across nearly as well as somebody crying about losing their job, family home, livelihood, or traditional pastime.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 04, 2024, 01:47:29 PM
Post by: Kumachan on March 04, 2024, 02:26:29 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 04, 2024, 02:35:28 PM
lol
people that have met me IRL know what i look like
mayor B told me " i feel threatened right now" when he is twice my size and had his whole cabinet standing behind him and 10-12 hpd officers in the room
all i was doing was speaking calmly and quietly, but i didn't back down when he was trying to bully me by getting in my face
i mean, this allegedly happened to someone who may or may not have been me...
Mayor Blangiardi is only cool and calm when everyone agrees with him. He becomes a bully when people stand up to him in disagreement and won't back down.
He is a big disappointment to me. I voted for that plick. I wish there were better choices but he seemed a click better than that other guy.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 04, 2024, 02:48:28 PM
Mayor Blangiardi is only cool and calm when everyone agrees with him. He becomes a bully when people stand up to him in disagreement and won't back down.
He is a big disappointment to me. I voted for that plick. I wish there were better choices but he seemed a click better than that other guy.
I knew someone who worked for him at the TV station and told me what he was really like. Total bully.
Post by: 6716J on March 04, 2024, 03:33:05 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 04, 2024, 03:42:22 PM
Mayor Blangiardi is only cool and calm when everyone agrees with him. He becomes a bully when people stand up to him in disagreement and won't back down.
He is a big disappointment to me. I voted for that plick. I wish there were better choices but he seemed a click better than that other guy.
Lesser of 2 evils as a GOP mayor won't win.
He's used to being surrounded by yes-men. So he has trouble when someone is challenging him.
Post by: drck1000 on March 04, 2024, 04:57:21 PM
I emailed the group sen email, as well as the Sen for my district. I don't expect a response from the Sen from my district, but would have been good. . .
Post by: waterhome on March 04, 2024, 05:23:38 PM
Oregon just had success getting their aw ban and mag overturned in court for the exact same reason as it turned many gun owners into criminals. Could we do the same thing here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WneVOog1sNM
Post by: ren on March 04, 2024, 07:34:10 PM
lol
people that have met me IRL know what i look like
mayor B told me " i feel threatened right now" when he is twice my size and had his whole cabinet standing behind him and 10-12 hpd officers in the room
all i was doing was speaking calmly and quietly, but i didn't back down when he was trying to bully me by getting in my face
i mean, this allegedly happened to someone who may or may not have been me...
(https://cdn.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/photos/2301/7590857/1000w_q75.jpg)
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 04, 2024, 11:46:43 PM
thanks for proving i was right...
(https://i.imgur.com/j1cgMJu.jpeg)
Post by: Q on March 05, 2024, 02:32:50 AM
I'd think it's a bad idea to be spicy at all. It's in gun owners' best interests to present themselves as stable, cool, and completely non-threatening.
We want to look like reasonable people with guns. If we look like angry or crazy people with guns then I imagine that does more harm than good.
It's not the sort of issue where I'd expect highly emotional sob stories to garner sympathy. If I got emotional and started crying about how my $4000 race rifle with $2500 worth of Aimpoint optics on it is going to be banned and how unfair that is after I worked so hard to assemble it or whatever... I don't think it'd come across nearly as well as somebody crying about losing their job, family home, livelihood, or traditional pastime.
Imagine, if you will, a scenario in which the people in power don't care what people think because they know they won't get spicy or do anything to stop them.
Post by: randay on March 05, 2024, 06:22:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RkqxySKr5I&list=PLAEwDhLrRKH1yrPXewjz5NH7zO9_oFNXh&index=1
Post by: aletheuo137 on March 05, 2024, 06:41:08 AM
I'm still considering how spicy to get. Ideally it would be enough to raise an eyebrow or two but not enough to get on another watch list.https://youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY
Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 09:18:55 AM
Imagine, if you will, a scenario in which the people in power don't care what people think because they know they won't get spicy or do anything to stop them.
Too bad it's not a jailable offence to violate the Constitution as a law maker, law enforcer, etc...
Post by: zippz on March 05, 2024, 09:27:31 AM
here is a link to senate floor session live stream, starts at 9am
It's at the end of the agenda, going to be a long time
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessions/session2024/orderoftheday/SOD_03-05-24_.htm
Post by: randay on March 05, 2024, 09:40:21 AM
It's at the end of the agenda, going to be a long time
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessions/session2024/orderoftheday/SOD_03-05-24_.htm
no kidding, 40 minutes in and they didnt even start yet?
Post by: stangzilla on March 05, 2024, 09:48:11 AM
Post by: Begle1 on March 05, 2024, 11:15:04 AM
Imagine, if you will, a scenario in which the people in power don't care what people think because they know they won't get spicy or do anything to stop them.
Ultimately it takes all types and it's great to present a diverse cross-section of points of view, so if anybody is naturally spicy and is devoting their time and energy to defending our rights, then more power to them. I won't judge.
But as debate class teaches, when we're talking to people like Karl Rhoads, it's as unlikely we'll persuade them as it is they'll persuade us. So the goal is to persuade anybody else who may be watching the exchange, who hasn't yet come to their own conclusions. In practice, there might only be one person in a room that hasn't fully formed their opinions yet, and it is for that person that we argue.
So the way I see it, if I'm alone with people who have already been bought and paid for by Bloomberg, then it wouldn't matter if I was extra spicy, because nothing would likely matter anyways. But if I was being televised or there were undecideds in the room... I would dread for the fence-sitters to find me crazy or threatening, especially when the rhetoric from the other side constantly tries to portray non-LEO gun owners as dangerous.
Post by: Q on March 05, 2024, 11:58:41 AM
Ultimately it takes all types and it's great to present a diverse cross-section of points of view, so if anybody is naturally spicy and is devoting their time and energy to defending our rights, then more power to them. I won't judge.
But as debate class teaches, when we're talking to people like Karl Rhoads, it's as unlikely we'll persuade them as it is they'll persuade us. So the goal is to persuade anybody else who may be watching the exchange, who hasn't yet come to their own conclusions. In practice, there might only be one person in a room that hasn't fully formed their opinions yet, and it is for that person that we argue.
So the way I see it, if I'm alone with people who have already been bought and paid for by Bloomberg, then it wouldn't matter if I was extra spicy, because nothing would likely matter anyways. But if I was being televised or there were undecideds in the room... I would dread for the fence-sitters to find me crazy or threatening, especially when the rhetoric from the other side constantly tries to portray non-LEO gun owners as dangerous.
Tell us how you feel about getting spicy, now that the bill has passed.
Post by: macsak on March 05, 2024, 12:12:43 PM
we have to wait and see what the amendments are. but it goes to the house next and gets assigned to committees...
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 05, 2024, 12:13:42 PM
Tell us how you feel about getting spicy, now that the bill has passed.
Especially HOW the Bill was passed.
Underhanded madahfackahs.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 12:14:47 PM
Ultimately it takes all types and it's great to present a diverse cross-section of points of view, so if anybody is naturally spicy and is devoting their time and energy to defending our rights, then more power to them. I won't judge.
But as debate class teaches, when we're talking to people like Karl Rhoads, it's as unlikely we'll persuade them as it is they'll persuade us. So the goal is to persuade anybody else who may be watching the exchange, who hasn't yet come to their own conclusions. In practice, there might only be one person in a room that hasn't fully formed their opinions yet, and it is for that person that we argue.
So the way I see it, if I'm alone with people who have already been bought and paid for by Bloomberg, then it wouldn't matter if I was extra spicy, because nothing would likely matter anyways. But if I was being televised or there were undecideds in the room... I would dread for the fence-sitters to find me crazy or threatening, especially when the rhetoric from the other side constantly tries to portray non-LEO gun owners as dangerous.
Like I said in my prior post, it depends on who you're talking too. Unfortunately, those who are vocal and against the 2a have their minds made up. No amount of logic/facts will change their mind as they rely on lies and feelings.
But, what I have seen change a few peoples mind is if they're a victim of a crime or know someone. That realtor on North Shore who was tied up and mutilated so bad that her husband couldn't recognize her, 1 guy who would always post anti 2a stuff on SSH changed his mind. He bought an AR after this. The same AR that he called a "weapon of war/assault rifle" that no one needs. He got a rifle over a handgun because he didn't have the time to take a handgun class, which he also posted about being necessary for all guns for years on SSH.
Then there's HI House rep who was anti 2a and during a stand your ground hearing, he had a hard time trying not to piss off Moms Demand Action who was against this bill and so was The Veteran. This is the same hearing that The Veteran claimed a Kinosha,WI will happen if we pass a stand your ground law, cause you know open carrying a AR15 is legal in HI. This rep even had to mention that he supports MDA/ET. What made him change his mind was that he was a victim twice of potential violence. And 1 was at a playground with his child. The other was in Chinatown and the crazy guy even followed him and his wife into the police station and no cops were around inside the station front area.
Normal debates are fine in a debate class or tournament. But in real life, facts don't matter as feelings are greater. Look at every fool who decides to challenge Charlie Kirk, Candace Owens, etc...
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 12:15:19 PM
passed with amendments
we have to wait and see what the amendments are. but it goes to the house next and gets assigned to committees...
Everyone keep in mind that the House committee can also aways add things back.
Post by: zippz on March 05, 2024, 12:21:48 PM
SB2845 passed with just 3 noes.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 12:24:35 PM
SB3196 passed with 8 nos 17 a yes and bunch of reservations. San Buenaventura gave a good speech how she always votes for gun control but this hurts a lot of regular people and why do we need it when Hawaii has low gun deaths per what the bill says. My Senator Elefante voted with reservations which surprised me as he seems very anti.
SB2845 passed with just 3 noes.
Favella was a no vote, despite his sign on his door.
Awa a no vote we can rely on.
Piertrick also a solid no vote and he's also vocal about the 2a.
Recap
Buenaventura still voted aye with reservations (this is a yes and not a no vote), but she said no need make law abiding people criminals, which is what this bill would be. She was concerned if someone inherits the "assault rifles".
Mercado-Kim who usually votes in support of anti 2A bills voted no.
Richards is from Big Island and voted no as well. Maybe the hunters reached out. So thats 1 Big Island Senator who voted no and 1 more who voted with reservations (Buenavenutra).
In the prior years Taser bill, the big island senator also voted no because her people reached out to her and told her to vote no. THey would have made tasers illegal to carry on buses and other locations. She didn't run the next election year.
Post by: macsak on March 05, 2024, 12:42:14 PM
Post by: jd0210 on March 05, 2024, 12:52:05 PM
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Post by: Brystont1 on March 05, 2024, 01:11:36 PM
Tell us how you feel about getting spicy, now that the bill has passed.
Do you think the outcome would’ve been different if we called them traitorous pieces of shit?
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 01:24:40 PM
Do you think the outcome would’ve been different if we called them traitorous pieces of shit?
I would feel better because this was going to pass the senate with a very high probability. Sometimes letting people vent helps them.
Post by: Kumachan on March 05, 2024, 01:30:07 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 05, 2024, 01:35:44 PM
Even Elefante must’ve recognized that what his poppa rhoads did to get the bill passed the committee was a scumbag move
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But didn't have the courage to vote no. Career comes first before doing the right thing. He shouldn't feel bad though. He's not alone.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 01:59:48 PM
But didn't have the courage to vote no. Career comes first before doing the right thing. He shouldn't feel bad though. He's not alone.
He should have "strongly" voted aye with reservations.
Post by: Kumachan on March 05, 2024, 02:14:41 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 05, 2024, 02:27:33 PM
At least Senator Gabbard returned my email.
Some people are just naturally classy and some are naturally not.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 02:52:57 PM
Surprised that Joy used part of what I wrote to her so I guess she listened a little.
That's why doing something is important than just complaining and doing nothing.
Post by: drck1000 on March 05, 2024, 02:57:38 PM
Senator Gabbard holds more credibility to me than the Senator that represents my district.He responded to me as well and I'm not even in his district. My own senator didn't respond, not that I expected a response. ..
At least Senator Gabbard returned my email.
Some people are just naturally classy and some are naturally not.
Post by: E808AN on March 05, 2024, 03:05:43 PM
2:48:26
https://www.youtube.com/live/5RkqxySKr5I?si=hqfneC6IpebUy3IM
Post by: Begle1 on March 05, 2024, 03:33:57 PM
Surprised that Joy used part of what I wrote to her so I guess she listened a little.
That's awesome, what part did she use?
Post by: randay on March 05, 2024, 04:07:17 PM
1. passing this bill will make law abiding citizens into criminals.
2. these are legitimate tools for hunting and agriculture.
3. we already have the best gun laws and low rates of gun stuff.
Post by: Kumachan on March 05, 2024, 04:13:09 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 05, 2024, 04:15:04 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 04:29:42 PM
Maybe our legislators feel there isn't enough.
BINGO!!!
It's never enough, they are obsessed at moving goal post.
Post by: Rhed on March 05, 2024, 04:33:38 PM
Post by: macsak on March 05, 2024, 04:47:31 PM
7 yes with reservations is a ton
there were only 17 yesses
yes with reservations means "i want to vote no, but this is passing anyways, so i need to toe the party line..."
this can be defeated in the house
we need to all not get discouraged and keep on fighting...
I feel like 8 noes is a lot. They just gave us the blueprint to kill this bill.
1. passing this bill will make law abiding citizens into criminals.
2. these are legitimate tools for hunting and agriculture.
3. we already have the best gun laws and low rates of gun stuff.
Post by: randay on March 05, 2024, 04:47:41 PM
Probably off topic, but do you think it’s not a good time to buy any firearm right now? Since this bill is just like being forced passed even with all our testimonies to our senates.
i see it opposite. nows the time to buy up.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 06:33:10 PM
Probably off topic, but do you think it’s not a good time to buy any firearm right now? Since this bill is just like being forced passed even with all our testimonies to our senates.If there is a grandfather clause, u must already own the item prior to july 8.
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Post by: 2aDefends1a on March 05, 2024, 07:35:51 PM
Probably off topic, but do you think it’s not a good time to buy any firearm right now? Since this bill is just like being forced passed even with all our testimonies to our senates.
The way I see it,
1. Bill dies and you get to keep your cool shit
2. Bill passes with grandfather clause, still get to keep it and hopefully leave this shitty state later
3. Bill passes with no grandfather and you gotta modify it, well it's shitty but you still got it and can move away to a free state later
4. Bill passes and you gotta turn it in, if you can't send it to a buddy in a free state to hold it, screw it at least you HAD it
I see no reason to not get what you want now
Post by: hvybarrels on March 05, 2024, 09:34:22 PM
8 noes is a lot
7 yes with reservations is a ton
there were only 17 yesses
yes with reservations means "i want to vote no, but this is passing anyways, so i need to toe the party line..."
this can be defeated in the house
we need to all not get discouraged and keep on fighting...
They wanted to bulldoze this through. We put some mud in their eye. Well done people!
Post by: Q on March 06, 2024, 03:48:14 AM
Do you think the outcome would’ve been different if we called them traitorous pieces of shit?
You'll never know because you didn't try.
And there are ways to get spicy without using profanity or imparting all blame to them. I highly doubt the founders of America called King George a piece of shit in their petitions or documents related to Independence. Perhaps take inspiration from their verbage.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 06, 2024, 08:21:08 AM
The way I see it,
1. Bill dies and you get to keep your cool shit
2. Bill passes with grandfather clause, still get to keep it and hopefully leave this shitty state later
3. Bill passes with no grandfather and you gotta modify it, well it's shitty but you still got it and can move away to a free state later
4. Bill passes and you gotta turn it in, if you can't send it to a buddy in a free state to hold it, screw it at least you HAD it
I see no reason to not get what you want now
Other options:
Bill passes and you have to turn in all your 30rd rifle mags to HPD with no compensation.
Bill passes and you have to spend $15 per mag to reduce them to 20rds via the Magpul -10rd adapter. Then epoxy the base so it's not "readily restorable". I know a lot of guys with 100+mags. So that's $1500 at min they would have to spend.
Bill passes and you disassemble all magazines as you now have parts kits and hope lawsuits delete this bill/law.
Bill passes and you have to use other means to block the mags that might be cheaper than $15 per mag. But it still cost you money and time.
And since you will be a criminal with the stroke of Comrade Greens pen, you have to do all of this before he signs the bill into law. And if he chooses not to, then you just wasted money. Will HPD grant you amnesty for turning in all your mags?
Post by: aletheuo137 on March 06, 2024, 08:22:40 AM
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Post by: 2aDefends1a on March 06, 2024, 10:08:32 AM
Other options:
Bill passes and you have to turn in all your 30rd rifle mags to HPD with no compensation.
Bill passes and you have to spend $15 per mag to reduce them to 20rds via the Magpul -10rd adapter. Then epoxy the base so it's not "readily restorable". I know a lot of guys with 100+mags. So that's $1500 at min they would have to spend.
Bill passes and you disassemble all magazines as you now have parts kits and hope lawsuits delete this bill/law.
Bill passes and you have to use other means to block the mags that might be cheaper than $15 per mag. But it still cost you money and time.
And since you will be a criminal with the stroke of Comrade Greens pen, you have to do all of this before he signs the bill into law. And if he chooses not to, then you just wasted money. Will HPD grant you amnesty for turning in all your mags?
So what, would you recommend that nobody should try to buy a gun right now? Because that was the question of the poster I was replying to.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 06, 2024, 10:22:37 AM
So what, would you recommend that nobody should try to buy a gun right now? Because that was the question of the poster I was replying to.
I recommend buying a gun now. It's a good decision to buy what you want sooner than later. Because things happen that could prevent that.
But if the OP is concerned about any grandfather clause being removed, then hold off.
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 06, 2024, 10:26:47 AM
They should compensate for all the firearms bought legally from gunowners. They should compensate by either paying for the retrofit of 30 rd mags to 20 rd mags or offer to buy the 30 rd mags back from the owner.
They should do this. They are the ones who started this whole fricken mess that will do nothing to deter crime or reduce their so called gun violence.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 06, 2024, 10:52:26 AM
Whatever comes out from this Bill, the government should be responsible for all the expenses that would be incurred because they are the ones who introduced this bullsh*t.
They should compensate for all the firearms bought legally from gunowners. They should compensate by either paying for the retrofit of 30 rd mags to 20 rd mags or offer to buy the 30 rd mags back from the owner.
They should do this. They are the ones who started this whole fricken mess that will do nothing to deter crime or reduce their so called gun violence.
Funny how the anti 2a orgs never offered to help pay either to keep or change dangerous items. But yet they can afford high priced lawyers like the one who works in the WH with Obama and not charge HI for the bill. THis is easily costing $150,000+.
Post by: Begle1 on March 06, 2024, 12:44:17 PM
If I'm handy enough to modify a magazine capacity downwards, undoubtedly I'd be handy enough to modify it back too, right?
Without clear guidance on this stuff... There is no way I could know whether my modifications are A-OK or a walking felony. That level of legal ambiguity when the stakes are so high is absolutely unconscionable.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 06, 2024, 01:02:31 PM
I think I'm going to point out how ridiculous it is that I'd be expected to modify my PS90 magazines from 50 to 20, in such a way that it couldn't be "readily reversed".
If I'm handy enough to modify a magazine capacity downwards, undoubtedly I'd be handy enough to modify it back too, right?
Without clear guidance on this stuff... There is no way I could know whether my modifications are A-OK or a walking felony. That level of legal ambiguity when the stakes are so high is absolutely unconscionable.
Depending on the state/fed court, "readily" is normally defined as being altered quickly and easily -- normally implying without the use of tools.
As far as the Aloha State is concerned, it's whatever they say it means.
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 06, 2024, 01:07:45 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 06, 2024, 01:14:26 PM
I think I'm going to point out how ridiculous it is that I'd be expected to modify my PS90 magazines from 50 to 20, in such a way that it couldn't be "readily reversed".
If I'm handy enough to modify a magazine capacity downwards, undoubtedly I'd be handy enough to modify it back too, right?
Without clear guidance on this stuff... There is no way I could know whether my modifications are A-OK or a walking felony. That level of legal ambiguity when the stakes are so high is absolutely unconscionable.
Correct, there's no way of knowing if your modification is sufficient or not, unless you get arrested.
Can PS90 mags even be modded? Like does anyone make a blocker?
Post by: randay on March 06, 2024, 01:34:52 PM
I think I'm going to point out how ridiculous it is that I'd be expected to modify my PS90 magazines from 50 to 20, in such a way that it couldn't be "readily reversed".
If I'm handy enough to modify a magazine capacity downwards, undoubtedly I'd be handy enough to modify it back too, right?
Without clear guidance on this stuff... There is no way I could know whether my modifications are A-OK or a walking felony. That level of legal ambiguity when the stakes are so high is absolutely unconscionable.
just FYI, possession of an illegal mag is a misdemeanor. only if inserted into a firearm its a felony.
also, due to last years sb1230, any criminal violation related to firearms means you lose your right to possess firearms and ammo for 20 years, so the misdemeanor might as well be a felony.
Lets all get on the same page here, If you are not a gunsmith, you are not "handy"(qualified probly better term) enough to modify magazines. or better yet, just state it isnt possible to block your magazines. throw in a "already own", some "law abiding citizens", and "making into criminals by passing this bill".
best case the bill gets killed, worst case it gets passed but they add grandfather for everything.
Post by: randay on March 06, 2024, 01:40:02 PM
Post by: 6716J on March 06, 2024, 02:05:12 PM
maybe have some safety concerns for DIY/homemade modifications to "assault weapon attachments" and magazines. might be a good angle to play.Like belt loops and broomsticks....
Post by: BRU on March 06, 2024, 02:18:10 PM
just FYI, possession of an illegal mag is a misdemeanor. only if inserted into a firearm its a felony.
also, due to last years sb1230, any criminal violation related to firearms means you lose your right to possess firearms and ammo for 20 years, so the misdemeanor might as well be a felony.
Lets all get on the same page here, If you are not a gunsmith, you are not "handy"(qualified probly better term) enough to modify magazines. or better yet, just state it isnt possible to block your magazines. throw in a "already own", some "law abiding citizens", and "making into criminals by passing this bill".
best case the bill gets killed, worst case it gets passed but they add grandfather for everything.
I think if HB2342 also passes and gets signed into law, having an illegal mag (which would be a misdemeanor) could easily turn into a Class C felony especially as a CCW license holder.
"§134- Carrying of a firearm in the commission of a separate misdemeanor; penalty. (a) It shall be unlawful for a person to knowingly carry on the person or have within the person's immediate control a firearm while engaged in the commission of a separate misdemeanor offense, whether the firearm was loaded or not, and whether operable or not; provided that a person shall not be prosecuted under this section when the separate offense is an offense otherwise defined by this chapter or is the offense of criminally negligent storage of a firearm under section 707-714.5.
(b) A conviction and sentence under this section shall be in addition to and not in lieu of any conviction and sentence for the separate misdemeanor; provided that the sentence imposed under this section may run concurrently or consecutively with the sentence for the separate misdemeanor.
(c) Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a class C felony.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 06, 2024, 02:38:24 PM
Post by: Rhed on March 06, 2024, 02:44:49 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 06, 2024, 03:28:21 PM
I wonder if we should send our senators the link to this post? Would that be a bad idea? I mean it's all good info here.
Other interested parties read the forum...
Post by: Kumachan on March 06, 2024, 06:42:13 PM
At least I sent out a email to Joy so she got that message- never responded though( she never does)
Post by: Q on March 06, 2024, 06:44:00 PM
Well, I just got back a mailer daemon saying sens@capital.hawaii.gov was undeliverable. That email address was taken off the on target notice that I got.I had forwarded that notice to the guys on my email address. I hope that some got through.Thats a mimum 100+ That is f'd up.
At least I sent out a email to Joy so she got that message- never responded though( she never does)
It's capitol, not capital
Post by: Kumachan on March 06, 2024, 07:39:15 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on March 07, 2024, 12:18:10 AM
I just copied it exactly as what was written from the on target hawaii notice. Now I know. Too late.
Still get another shot in the House. Can turn up the spice too. Stay legal of course, but they have to know the consequences are going to be worse than if they let down Soros
Scared politicians are useful politicians
Post by: 2aDefends1a on March 07, 2024, 07:31:14 AM
Still get another shot in the House. Can turn up the spice too. Stay legal of course, but they have to know the consequences are going to be worse than if they let down Soros
Scared politicians are useful politicians
What consequences?
That they'll be voted out and lose access to the gravy train? Cause that's truly all they care about and based off the political makeup of this state's voters I'm sure these politicians aren't going to be concerned with someone from our side of the aisle as a political minority fuming in their testimony.
There's nothing wrong with calmly expressing how this legislation negatively affects you but being "spicy" or "heated" or whatever slang there is out there for just "being mad" isn't productive.
You're not wrong in that these politicians need to be reminded who their real bosses are but the reality right now is they have a reliable voting block of sheep that will keep them employed no matter what.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 07, 2024, 01:03:59 PM
What consequences?
That they'll be voted out and lose access to the gravy train? Cause that's truly all they care about and based off the political makeup of this state's voters I'm sure these politicians aren't going to be concerned with someone from our side of the aisle as a political minority fuming in their testimony.
There's nothing wrong with calmly expressing how this legislation negatively affects you but being "spicy" or "heated" or whatever slang there is out there for just "being mad" isn't productive.
You're not wrong in that these politicians need to be reminded who their real bosses are but the reality right now is they have a reliable voting block of sheep that will keep them employed no matter what.
If their power base was certain then they wouldn’t need mail in voting fraud or millions of illegal immigrants.
Lots of stuff gives politicians anxiety. Mostly that we will figure out that their power only comes from the consent of the governed. The mob is fickle and can turn on them in a second. If you’re nice and polite but they have radical Marxists screaming in their ear about dead kids then they will lean harder on the side that won’t make as much of a fuss.
What happens if there budget gets wiped out by a market crash and we start to furlough cops? What if a terrorist attack overwhelms them? What if they all come down with turbo cancer? What if a big storm or tsunami cuts off supplies and the gangsters start going house to house?
The old “please mr politician leave my rights alone” doesn’t work. That’s how they got this far already. Use your imagination and figure out something inspiring. Drop some truth bombs about stolen elections, lockdowns, poison vaccines, wars, sabotage, etc.
The other side never holds back. That’s why they keep kicking our ass.
Post by: Begle1 on March 07, 2024, 02:15:23 PM
Being emotional in your arguments and testimony can be good, as long as you are at least a little sympathetic.
Coming across as crazy as bad, and coming across as threatening eventually becomes illegal and that I think everybody agrees is quite bad.
(The calculus changes if the law passes and then opposition becomes a matter of civil disobedience rather than civic participation.)
We have a very Democrat electorate. If gun rights get linked to Republican-party talking points, then it becomes a red vs blue issue, and the argument will be lost along the same percentages that Republicans usually lose elections. The math shows that arguments in favor of gun rights must be made to appeal to Democrat voters. 100% of Republican voters and at least 20% or so of Democrat voters must be convinced that firearms prohibitions are a bad idea.
Luckily there are people who believe in gun rights despite being registered Democrats who would never vote for Trump and who would roll eyes at any claims of stolen elections or vaccine conspiracies. (like me)
So how do we convince Democrat voters that gun rights are good? I think it's a really good idea to listen to what the Democrat senators said who opposed the bill or voted yes with reservations.
1) They don't believe in a justice system stacked against the "little guy" or mass incarceration. This bill could make tens or hundreds of thousands of citizens prosecutable as felons overnight. The bill is worded ambiguously enough that we might be felons without knowing it; enforcement and interpretation is up to fiat of police and the justice system. It'll bog down courts! It can lead to unfairly targeted policing against the poor! The rich won't be affected!
2) They are afraid of crime. Citing a concern regarding rising crime rates or potential organized crime is good rhetoric. If they say "but we haven't seen that kind of crime here", a rebuttal is "well we haven't seen those sorts of mass shootings here either".
3) They revere hunting rights more than self-defense rights, for whatever reason. Support for gun prohibitions diminishes if shown it'd negatively affect hunters. On the islands where deer or pigs are a recurring ecological disaster, this can be tied to an environmental argument.
4) They support cultural tradition to a fault, particularly Hawaiian cultural tradition if not so much white mainland US cultural tradition. I hate to say it and be so cynical, but if testimony consisted of a dozen of the most kanaka people in the state passionately detailing how this bill would threaten their way of life and sustainability, and that they've historically been shown that they can't trust the government to protect and provide for them, then how many transplant Democrat voters would still support the bill?
5) They vacillate like the wind and have deep logical incongruity on this, but half the time they don't trust the police. So why should police have weapons that nobody else has? Why should police have a monopoly on the tools required to defend our communities?
6) They have other priorities. Do we want to get bogged down in new legislation that has massive constitutional concerns and will generate immediate lawsuits that the state would need to fight against? We don't have the money nor the time; it's more important to fund education, rebuild Lahaina, retreat from sea level rise, make sure we have enough renewable energy, etc.
I am pretty firm of the belief that a white man from the mainland (like me) lecturing on the historical theory of the 2nd Amendment is going to sway zero Democrat voters, no matter how correct and eloquent he may be. I'll always make the argument but I don't expect it to win over who needs to be won over, at least not in the short term.
Post by: 2aDefends1a on March 07, 2024, 03:57:24 PM
If their power base was certain then they wouldn’t need mail in voting fraud or millions of illegal immigrants.
Lots of stuff gives politicians anxiety. Mostly that we will figure out that their power only comes from the consent of the governed. The mob is fickle and can turn on them in a second. If you’re nice and polite but they have radical Marxists screaming in their ear about dead kids then they will lean harder on the side that won’t make as much of a fuss.
What happens if there budget gets wiped out by a market crash and we start to furlough cops? What if a terrorist attack overwhelms them? What if they all come down with turbo cancer? What if a big storm or tsunami cuts off supplies and the gangsters start going house to house?
The old “please mr politician leave my rights alone” doesn’t work. That’s how they got this far already. Use your imagination and figure out something inspiring. Drop some truth bombs about stolen elections, lockdowns, poison vaccines, wars, sabotage, etc.
The other side never holds back. That’s why they keep kicking our ass.
So your plan is to get as crazy and stupid as their Marxists? You know those same loud idiots theyve tied themselves to are starting to cause their party problems in national opinions regarding the border and the Israel-Palestine conflict, right?
Your average Hawaii congressman that may be on the fence about this, that may hypothetically find their way onto one of these committees, is going to take a dim view of someone ranting and raving about lockdowns, poison vaccines, mob rule, etc in testimony regarding this bill.
You're right, in a way. Scared politicians are useful to the anti 2A crowd, and your plan to get "spicy" in testimony to people we are trying to sway their opinions is sure as hell more likely to make a potential on the fence vote lean more to the anti-2A types that love it when the caricature of a "threatening crazy gun nut" pops up to add credence to their lies.
You act like we're not currently behind enemy lines right now. There's an uphill fight ahead of us because most of these people voting on this bill are Democrats and getting "spicy" is counterproductive.
Rational, reasonable and well planned testimony is going to win it for us. Maybe if the local GOP gets its act together and starts putting more Rs in seats will we be able to have the luxury of getting "spicy" with testimony.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 07, 2024, 04:26:28 PM
Politicians are like “well you’re not going to do shit about it so it’s okay”
MLK would never have made it as far as he did without Malcolm X
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 07, 2024, 04:37:07 PM
I disagree. The founders would be disgusted with what we put up with already.
Politicians are like “well you’re not going to do shit about it so it’s okay”
MLK would never have made it as far as he did without Malcolm X
They know no one will do shit about it.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 07, 2024, 04:52:42 PM
They know no one will do shit about it.
People have been acting up for years. We call them criminals and there’s more and more of them every day. Are they stupid for taking risks or are we stupid for trying for surrendering our rights to tyrants?
Post by: 2aDefends1a on March 07, 2024, 06:50:04 PM
People have been acting up for years. We call them criminals and there’s more and more of them every day. Are they stupid for taking risks or are we stupid for trying for surrendering our rights to tyrants?
Where am I saying we need to surrender our rights with regards to submitting testimony?
I'm saying it will do way more harm than good by acting "spicy" or whatever in our testimonies, based on the fact we are in a highly Democrat state where there is a high probability that your average politician/aide will read this testimony and not think "Wow, what a paragon of liberty this person is!," but will instead default to "Wow this testimony is talking about lockdowns, vaccines, etc it must be a typical paranoid, racist, tinfoil hat gun owner the media is always depicting!" No, there's no guarantee calm testimony will work but it's got a higher probability than ranting and raving.
Yes it is beyond bullshit that we need to make nice nice with our tone in testimonies, but it's kind of the hand we have been dealt with being a minority voting block in one of the deepest blue states in the nation. It's critical to be as respectful and measured in our testimony despite many of these people not being worthy of it.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 07, 2024, 08:09:43 PM
Where am I saying we need to surrender our rights with regards to submitting testimony?
I'm saying it will do way more harm than good by acting "spicy" or whatever in our testimonies, based on the fact we are in a highly Democrat state where there is a high probability that your average politician/aide will read this testimony and not think "Wow, what a paragon of liberty this person is!," but will instead default to "Wow this testimony is talking about lockdowns, vaccines, etc it must be a typical paranoid, racist, tinfoil hat gun owner the media is always depicting!" No, there's no guarantee calm testimony will work but it's got a higher probability than ranting and raving.
Yes it is beyond bullshit that we need to make nice nice with our tone in testimonies, but it's kind of the hand we have been dealt with being a minority voting block in one of the deepest blue states in the nation. It's critical to be as respectful and measured in our testimony despite many of these people not being worthy of it.
You’re not treating this like an existential threat. That means you don’t really understand what’s at stake here.
(https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F55821308-279e-443a-a3c5-40972eff03b7_882x602.png)
Post by: 2aDefends1a on March 07, 2024, 08:53:56 PM
You’re not treating this like an existential threat. That means you don’t really understand what’s at stake here.
(https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F55821308-279e-443a-a3c5-40972eff03b7_882x602.png)
Except I do believe this is a deep existential threat. I just think that being combative in testimony is counterproductive and that what you're suggesting will actually harm our efforts. In a way, you're not exactly part of the problem but you aren't helping, either.
And please enlighten me as to what specifically is at stake here? I think I have an idea what you're hinting at with your boomer Facebook meme but I'd like for you to articulate it.
Post by: ren on March 07, 2024, 08:56:25 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on March 07, 2024, 09:12:03 PM
Except I do believe this is a deep existential threat. I just think that being combative in testimony is counterproductive and that what you're suggesting will actually harm our efforts. In a way, you're not exactly part of the problem but you aren't helping, either.
And please enlighten me as to what specifically is at stake here? I think I have an idea what you're hinting at with your boomer Facebook meme but I'd like for you to articulate it.
They murdered millions with vaccines and ventilators, imported 10 million illegals, stole multiple elections, spent us into a stagflationary death spiral, drove the children insane, locked up their political opponents, let out all the criminals, and now they want to take our guns away on the eve of signing a pandemic treaty with the World Health Organization that will strip us of our last bit of sovereignty.
This is your last chance to speak up while you still have 1A. If you want to waste this opportunity on your knees politely servicing their progressive porkswords then be my guest, but don't presume to tell me what to do.
Post by: 2aDefends1a on March 07, 2024, 09:35:48 PM
They murdered millions with vaccines and ventilators, imported 10 million illegals, stole multiple elections, spent us into a stagflationary death spiral, drove the children insane, locked up their political opponents, let out all the criminals, and now they want to take our guns away on the eve of signing a pandemic treaty with the World Health Organization that will strip us of our last bit of sovereignty.
This is your last chance to speak up while you still have 1A. If you want to waste this opportunity on your knees politely servicing their progressive porkswords then be my guest, but don't presume to tell me what to do.
Lmao, where in any of my language am I advocating getting on ones knees? I'm encouraging opposition to this senate bill in a rational fashion.
And let me preface this by saying you're not totally wrong above, but
If you really believe all that you wouldn't be wasting time on a publicly searchable internet forum or trying to use politically correct terminology like "spicy" with regards to how one chooses their language in testimony. Inaction and total disregard for anything close to opsec.
Shit, if you really believed all that then you'd know there are great forces at work right now and that submitting testimony right now is a waste of time and effort.
So it's either all is lost / nearly lost and drastic action is needed, or its as the above poster said perhaps rational and civil outlining of the I'll effects of this bill on us as individual members of these lawmakers community is needed.
I'm not against your passion nor am I in total disagreement of many of your viewpoints but that all needs to be tempered into actually useful testimony.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 07, 2024, 10:04:06 PM
If you really believe all that you wouldn't be wasting time on a publicly searchable internet forum or trying to use politically correct terminology like "spicy" with regards to how one chooses their language in testimony. Inaction and total disregard for anything close to opsec.
Shit, if you really believed all that then you'd know there are great forces at work right now and that submitting testimony right now is a waste of time and effort.
So it's either all is lost / nearly lost and drastic action is needed, or its as the above poster said perhaps rational and civil outlining of the I'll effects of this bill on us as individual members of these lawmakers community is needed.
I'm not against your passion nor am I in total disagreement of many of your viewpoints but that all needs to be tempered into actually useful testimony.
The most dangerous thing anyone can do is speak their truth, which is why you see so many western countries adopting "hate speech" laws that define hate speech as anything that the government doesn't like.
They want us to self censor and hide behind politeness, deferring to their authority. That way they can screw us over and not feel so bad about it because obviously we didn't care enough to bring our A game.
These aren't gods. These are cutthroat attorneys who rose to the top of a stinking pile of filth and corruption and are rapidly losing control of the state.
Your truth may be different than mine, but it's important that you say it out loud because even if it sounds crazy it gives others courage to do the same and when enough people find their voice the empire of lies will fall.
Post by: randay on March 08, 2024, 12:23:04 PM
Post by: Begle1 on March 08, 2024, 12:35:06 PM
Here's a video of an activist explaining how prop lightsabers are illegal under their law:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA-gfupgmQ4
Our version of the law, as currently written, would ban assault weapon attachments without banning assault rifles themselves... Which means it'd be legal to have the foregrip or flash suppressor on your rifle, but illegal as soon as you took it off. That absurdity seems like a fantastic starting point in opposing the bill... But if the House is just going to rewrite the whole thing anyways, does it even matter to point out particular absurdity to the committee members at this time? Or is it better to express broader dissatisfaction at the whole concept?
I figure I'll go with personal testimony at this time, until their wording gets finalized.
Post by: ren on March 08, 2024, 01:01:55 PM
As far as I can tell Illinois is the only state that currently bans "assault weapon attachments".
Here's a video of an activist explaining how prop lightsabers are illegal under their law:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA-gfupgmQ4
Our version of the law, as currently written, would ban assault weapon attachments without banning assault rifles themselves... Which means it'd be legal to have the foregrip or flash suppressor on your rifle, but illegal as soon as you took it off. That absurdity seems like a fantastic starting point in opposing the bill... But if the House is just going to rewrite the whole thing anyways, does it even matter to point out particular absurdity to the committee members at this time? Or is it better to express broader dissatisfaction at the whole concept?
I figure I'll go with personal testimony at this time, until their wording gets finalized.
the movie industry here works on a different set of laws.
Post by: randay on March 08, 2024, 01:29:54 PM
Our version of the law, as currently written, would ban assault weapon attachments without banning assault rifles themselves... Which means it'd be legal to have the foregrip or flash suppressor on your rifle, but illegal as soon as you took it off. That absurdity seems like a fantastic starting point in opposing the bill... But if the House is just going to rewrite the whole thing anyways, does it even matter to point out particular absurdity to the committee members at this time? Or is it better to express broader dissatisfaction at the whole concept?
I figure I'll go with personal testimony at this time, until their wording gets finalized.
Given the strong kickback on the senate floor, I was thinking it might be beneficial to let the reps know how bad this bill is before they lock in their votes (for political reasons or whatever it is they do). but I dunno, maybe it doesnt matter.
Post by: macsak on March 08, 2024, 02:05:37 PM
doesn't matter if they are on the firearm or not...
As far as I can tell Illinois is the only state that currently bans "assault weapon attachments".
Here's a video of an activist explaining how prop lightsabers are illegal under their law:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA-gfupgmQ4
Our version of the law, as currently written, would ban assault weapon attachments without banning assault rifles themselves... Which means it'd be legal to have the foregrip or flash suppressor on your rifle, but illegal as soon as you took it off. That absurdity seems like a fantastic starting point in opposing the bill... But if the House is just going to rewrite the whole thing anyways, does it even matter to point out particular absurdity to the committee members at this time? Or is it better to express broader dissatisfaction at the whole concept?
I figure I'll go with personal testimony at this time, until their wording gets finalized.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 08, 2024, 02:28:46 PM
the movie industry here works on a different set of laws.
Yup, they get to be exempt from this one.
Post by: Begle1 on March 08, 2024, 03:55:58 PM
no, per the bill it's illegal to possess the attachments
doesn't matter if they are on the firearm or not...
From what I read, the consensus in Illinois is that the attachments are fine as long as they're installed on a non-semiauto gun. Logic being you can't install them on a semiauto if they're already installed on another gun. But if you take them off, now it's a loose component that could be installed on a semiauto gun.
But that's hand-wavey conjuration. I don't believe courts have actually decided what it means, and when I search for law enforcement opinions on the matter, all I see are a bunch of counties where sheriffs are refusing to enforce it. Like our law, it's too ambiguous to mean anything until enforcement gets ahold of it, and enforcement can interpret at their discretion.
In practice, at a minimum it'd mean that even less people will be willing to ship guns or gun parts to Hawaii.
Here's a FAQ from Illinois:
https://isp.illinois.gov/Home/AssaultWeapons
At least they only banned 50 BMG and not all the other 50's.
Yup, they get to be exempt from this one.
The point is that an individual couldn't own a movie prop that happened to include random gun pieces. Like if somebody was a Star Wars collector who owned original or replica-of-original movie props, that'd be illegal.
Not as large a population as people with airsoft or paintball guns, or archers, or anybody at all with a firearm... But it shows how wide-reaching and ridiculous this language is.
Post by: macsak on March 08, 2024, 04:07:10 PM
their answer is, "we don't provide legal advise"
so basically, in hawaii, you won't know what is legal until you are arrested and charged...
From what I read, the consensus in Illinois is that the attachments are fine as long as they're installed on a non-semiauto gun. Logic being you can't install them on a semiauto if they're already installed on another gun. But if you take them off, now it's a loose component that could be installed on a semiauto gun.
But that's hand-wavey conjuration. I don't believe courts have actually decided what it means, and when I search for law enforcement opinions on the matter, all I see are a bunch of counties where sheriffs are refusing to enforce it. Like our law, it's too ambiguous to mean anything until enforcement gets ahold of it, and enforcement can interpret at their discretion.
In practice, at a minimum it'd mean that even less people will be willing to ship guns or gun parts to Hawaii.
Here's a FAQ from Illinois:
https://isp.illinois.gov/Home/AssaultWeapons
At least they only banned 50 BMG and not all the other 50's.
The point is that an individual couldn't own a movie prop that happened to include random gun pieces. Like if somebody was a Star Wars collector who owned original or replica-of-original movie props, that'd be illegal.
Not as large a population as people with airsoft or paintball guns, or archers, or anybody at all with a firearm... But it shows how wide-reaching and ridiculous this language is.
Post by: macsak on March 08, 2024, 04:08:37 PM
hawaii AG refuses to give any information like in this document from Illinois
their answer is, "we don't provide legal advise"
so basically, in hawaii, you won't know what is legal until you are arrested and charged...
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 08, 2024, 04:18:12 PM
The point is that an individual couldn't own a movie prop that happened to include random gun pieces. Like if somebody was a Star Wars collector who owned original or replica-of-original movie props, that'd be illegal.
Not as large a population as people with airsoft or paintball guns, or archers, or anybody at all with a firearm... But it shows how wide-reaching and ridiculous this language is.
Even with a small population like airsoft, a 14 year old will be a criminal or their parents.
For replica movie props, like a Star Wars, if it uses an accessory that can fit on a semi auto rifle, then yes, that prop would be illegal to buy or sell/give away.
Post by: Begle1 on March 08, 2024, 04:25:54 PM
I mentioned how Illinois passed similar legislation a year ago and they don't know what it means yet either.
And I plan to tell Tamato the same thing. Her campaign mailer mentions "gun violence" at least twice though so I'm not optimistic.
But the flip side is that I'd rather they not make the language better because then it'd be harder to argue against. It's easier to poke holes in poorly-worded bullshit than well-worded bullshit. Maybe it's better at this point to just talk personal effects.
Is there still a chance it dies in committee? Who is on the JHA committee and what are their backgrounds?
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 08, 2024, 04:35:25 PM
I emailed and said it was absurd that we wouldn't know what it would ban, it was ambiguous Schrodinger's language that could either ban everything or nothing depending on interpretation, and it was therefore shameful and ridiculous legislation regardless of how anybody felt about the role of guns in society.
I mentioned how Illinois passed similar legislation a year ago and they don't know what it means yet either.
And I plan to tell Tamato the same thing. Her campaign mailer mentions "gun violence" at least twice though so I'm not optimistic.
But the flip side is that I'd rather they not make the language better because then it'd be harder to argue against. It's easier to poke holes in poorly-worded bullshit than well-worded bullshit. Maybe it's better at this point to just talk personal effects.
Is there still a chance it dies in committee? Who is on the JHA committee and what are their backgrounds?
I dont think it's ambiguous. I take it as the part itself are banned. The law doesn't say "if attached" or "if not attached". Because it doesn't say this, then it's general possession of said product.
Others who are better versed in the law than I am also take it the same way.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 08, 2024, 05:34:51 PM
Comrade karl lying.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 08, 2024, 06:35:56 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/03/09/gun-owners-accuse-hpd-intentionally-slowing-review-concealed-firearm-permits/
Comrade karl lying.
Quote
“If you don’t just hand them the gun over the counter, they’re gonna sue,” he said.
More hyperbolic nonsense from Rhodes.
If you have a long gun permit, "they" can walk into a gun store, pay the purchase price, and the seller will "hand them the gun over the counter" before they walk out the door with it. "They" can do that with as many long guns as they want for an entire year under that permit with no new background checks needed.
Why can't you do that with handguns? why must you get a whole new background check for each handgun purchase? Is it because more people do illegal things with handguns than long guns?
The laws are inconsistent. If handguns are used for crime more than other firearms, then why is there not a bill to ban them? If long guns are rarely used for crime, why the bill to ban the most-owned semi-auto rifle in the nation?
The answer is staring you in the face.
Post by: Beinvolved on March 09, 2024, 10:10:25 AM
Post by: macsak on March 09, 2024, 12:23:27 PM
does he only wear a mask when there are heathen gun owners in the room?
Rhoades voted no on Palesrine ceasefire. He is fine with disarming HawaIi citizens but not ok with stopping funding that leads to death of kids in a foreign county. Rhoades has pissed off a lot of advocates and he should be voted out. This should be included in every 2a festimony to the House. Jusr another reason why Thoades is a lacky.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 09, 2024, 01:37:59 PM
also wasn't wearing a mask in that hearing room
does he only wear a mask when there are heathen gun owners in the room?
Looks like we are the unwashed masses…
Post by: ren on March 09, 2024, 07:18:23 PM
also wasn't wearing a mask in that hearing room
does he only wear a mask when there are heathen gun owners in the room?
same reason why Keith Kaneshiro wore a mask ...can't face the public
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/kitv.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/a5/9a563942-e090-11ee-99d0-6309dcc108b5/65f0881ee3295.image.png?resize=1074%2C628)
Post by: Beinvolved on March 10, 2024, 09:55:44 AM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 10, 2024, 04:38:21 PM
Us 2a people need to expand to other issues. This is the only way to oust those who want to take away our rights. We need to rile up UH students against Rhoades and his unreasonable stance on the death of keiki in Isarael and Palestine. It is clear that Rhoades is paid off and beholden to his top donors. No clue how this outsider was even chosen to represent Hawaii in any capacity.
You lost me.
How is being ignored on other issues going to make him stop ignoring us on 2A issues?
Post by: gillpaulc on March 10, 2024, 10:34:09 PM
but if it passes, we get stuck with the shit.
The ONLY way to defeat these crappy bills is to contact our elected reps (both Senate and House) and let them know we oppose them,
and if they don't we will support whoever runs against them.
We all know Karl Rhoads (BTW, did any one else notice he was named after Karl Marx???) wants ALL guns outlawed. The question is WHY?
Paul
Post by: Beinvolved on March 11, 2024, 02:50:52 AM
You lost me.
How is being ignored on other issues going to make him stop ignoring us on 2A issues?
Guys like Rhoades are basically unbeatable on 2a issues. He will keep nickel and diming a 2a restriction every year. He and his donors have no problem waiting out legal decisions. For most people in Hawaii, guns rights are not even on the radar and thus politicians feel very little pressure from 2a advocates despite mountains of testimonies and willingness to educate them. This is why Rhoades and his ilk need to be pressured on different issues like his lack of support for a ceasefire. He pissed off a lot if people a couple of days ago and was the sole no vote in committee after over 500 written testiminies in support. But Rhoades buddies are always on here reading postings so, he will probably pivot.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 11, 2024, 03:33:30 AM
Guys like Rhoades are basically unbeatable on 2a issues. He will keep nickel and diming a 2a restriction every year. He and his donors have no problem waiting out legal decisions. For most people in Hawaii, guns rights are not even on the radar and thus politicians feel very little pressure from 2a advocates despite mountains of testimonies and willingness to educate them. This is why Rhoades and his ilk need to be pressured on different issues like his lack of support for a ceasefire. He pissed off a lot if people a couple of days ago and was the sole no vote in committee after over 500 written testiminies in support. But Rhoades buddies are always on here reading postings so, he will probably pivot.
I'm still lost.
If you have, for argument's sake, 500 2A supporters, and those people are already not going to vote for Rhodes, those numbers are already 'cooked' into his polling numbers.
if those same 500 voters and call Rhodes and tell him, "I'm not voting for you next election, because you don't support a cease fire in Gaza," the poll numbers don't change. He's still getting the same votes as before, and he's still losing the same 500 votes from 2A supporters -- only now the 500 have an alternate reason not to support him.
Unless we can convince others outside the 2A community to support one of his opponents who has a good shot at defeating him, I don't see where we'd be doing anything other than piling onto our list of reason we still won't vote for Rhodes. The opponent would have to support 2A, of course, and that's not going to be an easy order to fill.
What am i missing?
Post by: rpoL98 on March 11, 2024, 06:24:31 AM
I'm still lost.there is no opponent. there is no credible opponent.
If you have, for argument's sake, 500 2A supporters, and those people are already not going to vote for Rhodes, those numbers are already 'cooked' into his polling numbers.
if those same 500 voters and call Rhodes and tell him, "I'm not voting for you next election, because you don't support a cease fire in Gaza," the poll numbers don't change. He's still getting the same votes as before, and he's still losing the same 500 votes from 2A supporters -- only now the 500 have an alternate reason not to support him.
Unless we can convince others outside the 2A community to support one of his opponents who has a good shot at defeating him, I don't see where we'd be doing anything other than piling onto our list of reason we still won't vote for Rhodes. The opponent would have to support 2A, of course, and that's not going to be an easy order to fill.
What am i missing?
Post by: macsak on March 11, 2024, 06:49:43 AM
there is no opponent. there is no credible opponent.
Post by: rpoL98 on March 11, 2024, 07:44:10 AM
there was a credible opponent last cycle, and he lost bigly...i stand corrected. good to know. I guess we gotta crank up the support some.
Post by: Q on March 11, 2024, 08:07:59 AM
For most people in Hawaii, guns rights are not even on the radar and thus politicians feel very little pressure from 2a advocates despite mountains of testimonies and willingness to educate them.
You must not follow Hawai'i-based social media pages. A significant number of people don't support anti-2A efforts and laws. The problem is they aren't active in contributing to or participating in the governmental process.
Post by: Rocky on March 11, 2024, 10:03:42 AM
What am i missing?FIFY
"I'm not voting for you AGAIN next election, because you don't support
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 11, 2024, 11:03:45 AM
FIFY
I'd be disappointed if any of those 500 2A supporters voted for him in the past.
If they did, we need to fix a lot more than just my statement!
:geekdanc:
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 11, 2024, 11:20:04 AM
I'd be disappointed if any of those 500 2A supporters voted for him in the past.
If they did, we need to fix a lot more than just my statement!
:geekdanc:
This is an interesting topic. I know 2A guys who voted for Ige, Green, Caldwell, and Rick. I never asked them their stance on other issues, so maybe despite all being anti 2a, they aren't a single issue voter. And almost all the HI people I know who moved to Vegas voted blue again. Now for this, IDK what the GOP candidate was like, but I'm going to assume they brought their HI problems with them to NV. People in Vegas often hate CA people, but HI is no different.
Back to 2A, IMO if a politician is willing to violate the 2A, what other rights will they violate? We saw Ige violate peoples other rights and Rick too during covid.
I'm a single issue voter. If they're not pro 2a, then they won't get my vote. And if all are anti 2A, then it's a shit sandwitch and i'll pick the lesser of the evils.
Also the party usually dictates this, but not all the time. Which is why one has to do their own research. A few years ago an anti 2a ran as GOP and won, but people there voted based on party. Somewhere in NV, I forgot what county. The candidate admitted to tricking the voters when he ran as GOP.
Here's a recent example: Rep Kila is DNC, but he presented a stand your ground bill this year. Last year, he voted against the sensitive places bills. I asked him why and he said because my people wanted his vote to go that way. He said he listens to what his people want him to do and dont' automatically vote down party lines.
Kevin McDonald who ran as DNC against Comrade Karl is pro 2A. He showed up to the floor vote with HIFICO, the one where Chief Ballard and 11 other HPD brass showed up to, to get the mag ban passed. He also was arrested while exercising his 1A right during covid.
Post by: Q on March 11, 2024, 11:35:48 AM
This is an interesting topic. I know 2A guys who voted for Ige, Green, Caldwell, and Rick. I never asked them their stance on other issues, so maybe despite all being anti 2a, they aren't a single issue voter. And almost all the HI people I know who moved to Vegas voted blue again. Now for this, IDK what the GOP candidate was like, but I'm going to assume they brought their HI problems with them to NV. People in Vegas often hate CA people, but HI is no different.
Back to 2A, IMO if a politician is willing to violate the 2A, what other rights will they violate? We saw Ige violate peoples other rights and Rick too during covid.
I'm a single issue voter. If they're not pro 2a, then they won't get my vote. And if all are anti 2A, then it's a shit sandwitch and i'll pick the lesser of the evils.
Also the party usually dictates this, but not all the time. Which is why one has to do their own research. A few years ago an anti 2a ran as GOP and won, but people there voted based on party. Somewhere in NV, I forgot what county. The candidate admitted to tricking the voters when he ran as GOP.
Here's a recent example: Rep Kila is DNC, but he presented a stand your ground bill this year. Last year, he voted against the sensitive places bills. I asked him why and he said because my people wanted his vote to go that way. He said he listens to what his people want him to do and dont' automatically vote down party lines.
Kevin McDonald who ran as DNC against Comrade Karl is pro 2A. He showed up to the floor vote with HIFICO, the one where Chief Ballard and 11 other HPD brass showed up to, to get the mag ban passed. He also was arrested while exercising his 1A right during covid.
Most Hawai'i and national politicians don't even know what kind of governmental system we have. The ones that do and still violate our rights are the ones who are hoping we don't know our system of government or how it's supposed to be.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 11, 2024, 11:41:34 AM
Most Hawai'i and national politicians don't even know what kind of governmental system we have. The ones that do and still violate our rights are the ones who are hoping we don't know our system of government or how it's supposed to be.
We even tell them during hearings you've violating, but they don't care. But even people who claim their pro 2a do the same. Like one guy here thinks red flag laws can be constitutional, but fails to post any that are. He also thinks Bruen's history/tradition includes old English laws (non-USA laws).
Too bad politicians don't go to jail for violating peoples rights after they were informed of it. So no can say "i nevah know".
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 11, 2024, 01:05:53 PM
there was a credible opponent last cycle, and he lost bigly...
Voter apathy.
Post by: 6716J on March 11, 2024, 02:41:49 PM
This is an interesting topic. I know 2A guys who voted for Ige, Green, Caldwell, and Rick. I never asked them their stance on other issues, so maybe despite all being anti 2a, they aren't a single issue voter. And almost all the HI people I know who moved to Vegas voted blue again. Now for this, IDK what the GOP candidate was like, but I'm going to assume they brought their HI problems with them to NV. People in Vegas often hate CA people, but HI is no different.
Back to 2A, IMO if a politician is willing to violate the 2A, what other rights will they violate? We saw Ige violate peoples other rights and Rick too during covid.
I'm a single issue voter. If they're not pro 2a, then they won't get my vote. And if all are anti 2A, then it's a shit sandwitch and i'll pick the lesser of the evils.
Also the party usually dictates this, but not all the time. Which is why one has to do their own research. A few years ago an anti 2a ran as GOP and won, but people there voted based on party. Somewhere in NV, I forgot what county. The candidate admitted to tricking the voters when he ran as GOP.
Here's a recent example: Rep Kila is DNC, but he presented a stand your ground bill this year. Last year, he voted against the sensitive places bills. I asked him why and he said because my people wanted his vote to go that way. He said he listens to what his people want him to do and dont' automatically vote down party lines.
Kevin McDonald who ran as DNC against Comrade Karl is pro 2A. He showed up to the floor vote with HIFICO, the one where Chief Ballard and 11 other HPD brass showed up to, to get the mag ban passed. He also was arrested while exercising his 1A right during covid.
Speaking of Kila... I got a response from him for my email today asking to oppose SB3196
"Aloha ______,
Thank you for your email. I will more than likely vote, NO on the measure, here, in the house chamber.
Thank you for your email.
Mahalo,
signatureImage
Representative Darius K. Kila
House District 44
Honokai Hale, Nānākuli, Māʻili
Hawaiʻi State House of Representatives - Majority
p: (808) 586-9480
e: repkila@capitol.hawaii.gov
a: 415 S. Beretania St. Room #322
Honolulu HI, 96813"
Post by: hvybarrels on March 11, 2024, 03:44:56 PM
Voter apathy.
The ugly truth is that you need money to compete in politics and Kevin ran on a shoestring and wasn’t able to effectively get out his message. We really need a liberty PAC
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 11, 2024, 04:34:43 PM
The ugly truth is that you need money to compete in politics and Kevin ran on a shoestring and wasn’t able to effectively get out his message. We really need a liberty PAC
I don' think he did. I didn't see 1 "vote for Marx" sign in Chinatown, Downtown or Nuuanu. So, Marx didn't have any of this type of marketing. Unless he spend his donations on other forms of marketing.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 11, 2024, 05:04:36 PM
I don' think he did. I didn't see 1 "vote for Marx" sign in Chinatown, Downtown or Nuuanu. So, Marx didn't have any of this type of marketing. Unless he spend his donations on other forms of marketing.
Marx has lots of power and connections due to his seniority so he doesn't have to work as hard as an upstart. Lots of businesses owe him favors vs Kevin who is untested and unknown.
There's got to be a popular uprising from the kind of people who don't usually vote in order to overthrow the status quo, Unless there's a compelling message campaign they will just continue to throw away their ballots.
Post by: Sodie on March 11, 2024, 05:34:17 PM
I'm still lost.
If you have, for argument's sake, 500 2A supporters, and those people are already not going to vote for Rhodes, those numbers are already 'cooked' into his polling numbers.
if those same 500 voters and call Rhodes and tell him, "I'm not voting for you next election, because you don't support a cease fire in Gaza," the poll numbers don't change. He's still getting the same votes as before, and he's still losing the same 500 votes from 2A supporters -- only now the 500 have an alternate reason not to support him.
Unless we can convince others outside the 2A community to support one of his opponents who has a good shot at defeating him, I don't see where we'd be doing anything other than piling onto our list of reason we still won't vote for Rhodes. The opponent would have to support 2A, of course, and that's not going to be an easy order to fill.
What am i missing?
I think the point Beinvolved is getting at is that we should try to generate opposition to Rhoads among folks OUTSIDE the 2A community, by publicizing his views on issues they might care about… like a Gaza ceasefire.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 11, 2024, 05:41:23 PM
I think the point Beinvolved is getting at is that we should try to generate opposition to Rhoads among folks OUTSIDE the 2A community, by publicizing his views on issues they might care about… like a Gaza ceasefire.
And we, as a group, do that how?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 11, 2024, 05:48:36 PM
Marx has lots of power and connections due to his seniority so he doesn't have to work as hard as an upstart. Lots of businesses owe him favors vs Kevin who is untested and unknown.
There's got to be a popular uprising from the kind of people who don't usually vote in order to overthrow the status quo, Unless there's a compelling message campaign they will just continue to throw away their ballots.
That's the fact. The incumbent always has the advantage unless they got caught redhanded doing something highly illegal. And even that would be a coin toss with the way the media covers up those stories.
Incumbents have a war chest of donations, sometimes even left over from their last election. They have the political connections, the committee seats and the track record of toeing the party line to give them a major head start on any challengers.
There's also the quid pro quo factor. If he made the unions happy, they in turn owe him the votes they promised at that time. Same for any voting block that benefitted from his willingness to buy votes with tax payer funds.
Have you visited the nation's largest fossil museum in DC yet?
No, not the Smithsonian .... Congress! The only thing more permanent than a Democrat in public office are the spending programs they managed to get approved.
Post by: Sodie on March 11, 2024, 06:53:55 PM
And we, as a group, do that how?
Is that question for me, Beinvolved, or the group in general?
Post by: Jl808 on March 11, 2024, 07:30:57 PM
What other groups? I dont know. Scratching my head in the dark.
Churches? Clubs? Etc. “Groups” in his district. Maybe we should ask ChatGPT?
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 11, 2024, 07:36:12 PM
Yet he gets reelected. I mean, chinatown doesnt have a drug problem right?
This is why i dont feel bad for the residents or business there. F-em.
I see shit on the side walk once a week in various places in downtown.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: rpoL98 on March 11, 2024, 07:47:04 PM
wasn't he all for California-style bail reform a year-or-two ago? which thank-God failed.
but gotta be focused in his district.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 11, 2024, 08:41:04 PM
Is that question for me, Beinvolved, or the group in general?
I've never seen you balk at answering any question no matter to whom it was directed.
Post by: hvybarrels on March 11, 2024, 11:32:14 PM
His district are full of morons. Few years ago, he wanted to decriminalize 3oz or less of schedule 1 narcotics like meth, heroin, ba-2, etc....
Yet he gets reelected. I mean, chinatown doesnt have a drug problem right?
This is why i dont feel bad for the residents or business there. F-em.
I see shit on the side walk once a week in various places in downtown.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Most people don't vote. With mail in ballots it makes it easier to track who votes and figure out who's not likely to notice if someone illegally votes in their place. If everyone started voting it would make things much more difficult to steal an election.
If a PAC successfully unseated the head of the JDC then the rest of them would be cowering in fear.
Post by: rpoL98 on March 12, 2024, 05:52:34 AM
sound familiar?
"Gun Owners of America (GOA) and its sister organization, the Gun Owners Foundation, on Monday filed a petition for certiorari with the Supreme Court in their challenge to the Protect Illinois Communities Act (PICA). The groups, representing Illinois gun owners, argue the law imposes an unconstitutional, sweeping ban on hundreds of commonly owned and lawfully used rifles and ammunition magazines."
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gun-rights-groups-ask-supreme-court-strike-illinois-assault-weapons-ban (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gun-rights-groups-ask-supreme-court-strike-illinois-assault-weapons-ban)
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 12, 2024, 07:38:08 AM
getting back on track...
sound familiar?
"Gun Owners of America (GOA) and its sister organization, the Gun Owners Foundation, on Monday filed a petition for certiorari with the Supreme Court in their challenge to the Protect Illinois Communities Act (PICA). The groups, representing Illinois gun owners, argue the law imposes an unconstitutional, sweeping ban on hundreds of commonly owned and lawfully used rifles and ammunition magazines."
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gun-rights-groups-ask-supreme-court-strike-illinois-assault-weapons-ban (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gun-rights-groups-ask-supreme-court-strike-illinois-assault-weapons-ban)
And the NRA-ILA....crickets.
Post by: 6716J on March 12, 2024, 07:48:30 AM
And the NRA-ILA....crickets.
The NRA is dead to most of the under 50 crowd. The under 50 is FPC (Stack up or Fuck off/Lawsuit printer go brrrr) and GOA. The NRA is now just another behemoth lobbying group that takes most of the $ for its governing board. Wayne didn't go poor "fighting for our rights"....
Post by: Rocky on March 12, 2024, 08:25:08 AM
And the NRA-ILA....crickets.Got a call from NRA to "up" our membership.
I asked him what nra has done for Hawaii amongst all of the recent "law changes/proposals".
He went on to tell me all of the good they are doing nationally.
I then informed him of all of these laws and proposals and let him know nra has been totally absent in our defense and that when nra starts supporting Hawaii gun owners, Hawaii gun owners will return to supporting nra.
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 12, 2024, 10:39:50 AM
Got a call from NRA to "up" our membership.
I asked him what nra has done for Hawaii amongst all of the recent "law changes/proposals".
He went on to tell me all of the good they are doing nationally.
I then informed him of all of these laws and proposals and let him know nra has been totally absent in our defense and that when nra starts supporting Hawaii gun owners, Hawaii gun owners will return to supporting nra.
Was trying to find out what national gun rights groups were helping us fight bills like SB3196. I could be wrong but I didn't see groups like the NRA and GOA helping us fight.
Why is that? I really appreciate what HIFICO is doing here and was wondering why these national groups don't help HIFICO.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 12, 2024, 11:25:57 AM
Was trying to find out what national gun rights groups were helping us fight bills like SB3196. I could be wrong but I didn't see groups like the NRA and GOA helping us fight.
Why is that? I really appreciate what HIFICO is doing here and was wondering why these national groups don't help HIFICO.
HI is too small to spend $ on. Which is why HIFICO was formed. National groups weren't doing anything/much.
What the big org's don't see is that what happens in 1 state, spreads to others. Like a cancer.
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 12, 2024, 11:58:48 AM
HI is too small to spend $ on. Which is why HIFICO was formed. National groups weren't doing anything/much.
What the big org's don't see is that what happens in 1 state, spreads to others. Like a cancer.
I see. That's really too bad. Especially when Rocky mentioned that the NRA rep had the nerve to ask for help in increased membership from the Hawaii people.
Nobody wants to support a one-sided affair. They seem like fair-weather friends. Or more accurately like insurance companies. Quick to take your money but nowhere to be found when you need help.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 12, 2024, 12:13:53 PM
I see. That's really too bad. Especially when Rocky mentioned that the NRA rep had the nerve to ask for help in increased membership from the Hawaii people.
Nobody wants to support a one-sided affair. They seem like fair-weather friends. Or more accurately like insurance companies. Quick to take your money but nowhere to be found when you need help.
This was reported in 2020:
Quote
The Washington Post, which reviewed the NRA’s tax filings, reported inhttps://www.distractify.com/p/nra-leadership-salaries
November that LaPierre received a 57 percent pay raise in 2018, increasing
his overall compensation to $2.15 million.
The 70-year-old’s base salary was stated to be $1.3 million, and he received
a bonus of $455,000. The remaining $395,000 came from "other reportable
compensation."
And this was just last month:
Quote
A Manhattan jury found three top executives of the National Rifle Associationhttps://www.npr.org/2024/02/23/1232229060/nra-wayne-lapierre-corruption-trial-verdict-new-york
liable Friday in a lengthy civil trial that focused on alleged corruption and the
misspending of millions of dollars.
Longtime NRA leader Wayne LaPierre, a key architect in the nonprofit's hardline
gun rights agenda who stepped down as CEO last month, was central to the case
brought by New York state Attorney General Letitia James.
After a six week trial and a week of deliberations, a jurors found that LaPierre
"violated his statutory obligation to discharge the duties of his position in good faith."
They concluded that he had caused roughly $5.4 million worth of harm to the nonprofit
group's finances — though they also found that LaPierre had already repaid about $1 million.
I always find it unfathomable how anyone being paid millions every year turns to corruption. Are the first 10 years of multi-million dollar compensation packages just not enough?
Money = Power, & Power Corrupts.
i guess when you have to support these kinds of 'expenses,' every NRA member you can convince to join or up-size their membership means more for the top of that pyramid, huh?
To be fair, I got a jacket, a leather travel bag, and a cool certificate and membership card. I'm glad now I didn't check the box saying keep my goodies. Otherwise, i would have gotten nothing at all for my money!
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 12, 2024, 12:25:26 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on March 12, 2024, 12:31:39 PM
I always find it unfathomable how anyone being paid millions every year turns to corruption. Are the first 10 years of multi-million dollar compensation packages just not enough?
Money = Power, & Power Corrupts.
The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Placing too much value on materialism creates endless misery because the void of desire can never be filled.
That's why elites are obsessed with enslaving us and having sex with kids. They are running into the limits of power and are looking for anything that represents a challenge.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 12, 2024, 12:40:33 PM
That bonus could have easily been used to fund about 8 lawsuits.
I think they meant "bone us." That's what it seems was happening.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 12, 2024, 12:43:17 PM
The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Placing too much value on materialism creates endless misery because the void of desire can never be filled.
That's why elites are obsessed with enslaving us and having sex with kids. They are running into the limits of power and are looking for anything that represents a challenge.
If they need a challenge, they can try living paycheck to paycheck and barely able to make ends meet, like the people who sent in their $20, $40 or $75 NRA membership dues in support of our 2A rights.
i guess that's just crazy talk, though.
Post by: randay on March 19, 2024, 04:17:32 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 19, 2024, 05:43:19 PM
is JHA killing this bill by not scheduling it?
Yes. I think the deadline is 3/29 as they need to give the usual 24hrs notice. Someone can confirm this as I'm not 100% sure.
Post by: rpoL98 on March 20, 2024, 10:43:12 AM
Post by: BRU on March 21, 2024, 06:21:03 AM
Yes. I think the deadline is 3/29 as they need to give the usual 24hrs notice. Someone can confirm this as I'm not 100% sure.
According to the legislative calendar, it sounds like the bill would need to be at the final committee by tomorrow but it wasn’t scheduled in the first committee as of today. I’m not sure how many committees are involved in the House.
MAR 21 SECOND LATERAL FILING (BILLS) – Filing Deadline for Second Lateral Bills.
MAR 22 SECOND LATERAL (BILLS) – All bills with multiple referrals must move to their final referral committee in the non-originating chamber by this date.
Post by: zippz on March 21, 2024, 07:03:29 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 21, 2024, 07:54:31 AM
April 4th is the absolute last day for a hearing.
Which means 4/2 is the latest a hearing notice can be given (48hrs).
Post by: BRU on March 21, 2024, 09:09:23 AM
Post by: 2aDefends1a on March 21, 2024, 09:51:54 AM
According to the legislative calendar, it sounds like the bill would need to be at the final committee by tomorrow but it wasn’t scheduled in the first committee as of today. I’m not sure how many committees are involved in the House.
MAR 21 SECOND LATERAL FILING (BILLS) – Filing Deadline for Second Lateral Bills.
MAR 22 SECOND LATERAL (BILLS) – All bills with multiple referrals must move to their final referral committee in the non-originating chamber by this date.
Since this only has one committee, is that considered the final committee? If so, does that mean they have until tomorrow to schedule it or else it's dead?
Post by: macsak on March 21, 2024, 09:56:20 AM
Since this only has one committee, is that considered the final committee? If so, does that mean they have until tomorrow to schedule it or else it's dead?
no, it needs to be heard and a report filed by 4/4
that means the announcement has to be made by 4/2
Post by: macsak on March 21, 2024, 09:57:45 AM
Since this only has one committee, is that considered the final committee? If so, does that mean they have until tomorrow to schedule it or else it's dead?
3/22 is multiple committee referral bills
Post by: ICLS1989 on March 27, 2024, 09:18:50 AM
Post by: macsak on March 27, 2024, 09:24:27 AM
have to wait until tomorrow afternoon to see if it does...
Did this bill get passed or not?
Post by: drck1000 on March 27, 2024, 09:32:10 AM
still has not been scheduled for a hearingbetter check at 3:59 pm, or close to whatever the deadline is. . .
have to wait until tomorrow afternoon to see if it does...
Post by: macsak on March 27, 2024, 09:35:30 AM
better check at 3:59 pm, or close to whatever the deadline is. . .
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 27, 2024, 10:03:37 AM
Did this bill get passed or not?
The next step for this bill, is for it to get a hearing in the JHA committee. It has yet to have one scheduled, but the deadline for a hearing isn't over yet.
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 27, 2024, 10:32:11 AM
They believe in equal opportunities for the two sides to air their grievances, as they value the input of hawaii's citizens and their desire to have this issue co-exist safely and for the benefit for all.
Our leaders care and are extremely concerned that the rights of citizens be upheld on both sides of the issue and acknowledge that both sides are equally concerned about safety and rights.
;D
WTF am I thinking. :rofl:
Post by: macsak on March 27, 2024, 11:02:38 AM
I am 100% confident that our Hawaii government leaders will make sure that everyone will be notified well in advance of SB3196, fully realizing how important it is for those of us who are in support of it or against it.
They believe in equal opportunities for the two sides to air their grievances, as they value the input of hawaii's citizens and their desire to have this issue co-exist safely and for the benefit for all.
Our leaders care and are extremely concerned that the rights of citizens be upheld on both sides of the issue and acknowledge that both sides are equally concerned about safety and rights.
;D
WTF am I thinking. :rofl:
Post by: ICLS1989 on March 27, 2024, 04:57:32 PM
Post by: zippz on March 27, 2024, 05:45:42 PM
What’s the reason why SB1230 went through the JHA and FIN House committees last year versus SB3196 just being referred to only JHA this session?
SB1230 went to finance because money was involved. The CCW fees.
Post by: ICLS1989 on March 31, 2024, 10:28:34 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 31, 2024, 12:14:55 PM
Is this bill toast yet? When will we know for sure?Maybe end of day 4/2
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Post by: ren on March 31, 2024, 12:25:44 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/03/31/petition-calls-more-protections-domestic-violence-victims/
Post by: ICLS1989 on March 31, 2024, 01:05:02 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 31, 2024, 06:52:06 PM
This is not a good indicator.The media is playing their part...So violating a TRO isnt an automatic arrest?
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/03/31/petition-calls-more-protections-domestic-violence-victims/
I was at a bodybuilding comp and a guy and gal were competing. So 12+ weeks of extreme dieting and training. Day of the comp is extreme dehydration.
The gal had a TRO or like on her ex and neither knew both were competing. He was arrested in his posing trunks. At least HPD let him drink water, wipe the oil off and put clothes on b4 taking him to jail.
If it already is an arrestable offence , then her moms a moron.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 31, 2024, 07:06:25 PM
So violating a TRO isnt an automatic arrest?
I was at a bodybuilding comp and a guy and gal were competing. So 12+ weeks of extreme dieting and training. Day of the comp is extreme dehydration.
The gal had a TRO or like on her ex and neither knew both were competing. He was arrested in his posing trunks. At least HPD let him drink water, wipe the oil off and put clothes on b4 taking him to jail.
If it already is an arrestable offence , then her moms a moron.
If you violate a restraining order, you will be arrested if the complainant calls the Cops on you. The issue is, they will be arraigned on the charge of Criminal Contempt of Court. Then guess what happens? They are released on bail or on their own recognizance pending trial. As the months go by until the trial date, that person has the opportunity to do what Lucita Ani-Nihoa's daughter experienced with no way to stop them.
People seem to believe that getting arrested takes the individual "off the streets." That's a temporary situation -- sometimes lasting less than 24 hours.
A TRO is not the same as being on parole, as some seem to think -- you violate it, you go straight to jail. Parole is for someone already sentenced after a finding of guilty. A TRO simply gives the Cops a legal justification for detaining the person if they break it. But, there's no "don't break the TRO or you'll server x number of days in jail" standard. It would be up to the judge to decide that, and only after your trial -- which is after you've been freed following your arraignment.
Post by: Begle1 on April 02, 2024, 03:00:24 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 02, 2024, 04:15:35 PM
So is the wicked bill dead?
Almost and here's why.
The 48 notice has passed as the last hearings are about 3pm. The news reported that the pakalolo bill is dead for the same reasoning. THe pakalolo bill failed to get a hearing.
But committee's can waive the 48hr notice as well. Very rare to do, but it is allowed. So by Friday end of day is the for sure dead by date.
My speculation, since this got no backing from the Governor (not in his governors package like how sensitive places was), no companion version, HPD, AG, or any other LEO departments or city departments (excluding maui C&C), I suspect the bill is dead. I'll post more info on Friday or so.
Post by: Begle1 on April 02, 2024, 04:20:18 PM
If it really dies then I'm going to buy a drum mag to celebrate.
Post by: 716x on April 02, 2024, 11:44:59 PM
Fingers crossed.don't tell Komrad Karl that, it might put him over the top.
If it really dies then I'm going to buy a drum mag to celebrate.
so much anxiety and anticipation, waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting for the fat lady to sing. tick tock. the world turns so slowly when so much hangs in the balance.
pistol evil features, semi-auto anything, fifty cals, 30 round magpuls, day-yum. One of these days it'll be machete's and cane knives that are on the chopping block (lame-ass pun), or are those "culturally protected", like fireworks?
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 03, 2024, 08:29:38 AM
Fingers crossed.
If it really dies then I'm going to buy a drum mag to celebrate.
ANd then testify in person and show it to them. Years ago when they tried to ban mags, 1 guy brought a STANAG mag and showed how easy it is to convert from 10rds to 30.
Post by: rpoL98 on April 03, 2024, 11:47:20 AM
ANd then testify in person and show it to them. Years ago when they tried to ban mags, 1 guy brought a STANAG mag and showed how easy it is to convert from 10rds to 30.well that certainly doesn't help our side. was it the same guy that said that HPD burdensome CCW regulations are good?
kind of a rhetorical question.
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 03, 2024, 01:12:52 PM
well that certainly doesn't help our side. was it the same guy that said that HPD burdensome CCW regulations are good?
kind of a rhetorical question.
No, the person who showed the lawmakers how stupid their law is wasn't this retail gun store owner.
The point of him showing lawmakers how easy it is was to show them that their ban won't stop a criminal or someone with evil intent. It only affects law abiding citizens.
Post by: ren on April 04, 2024, 06:49:27 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/04/05/amid-spate-shootings-police-chief-confirms-weapons-violations-are-rise/
Post by: Rocky on April 05, 2024, 08:55:37 AM
on cue...
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/04/05/amid-spate-shootings-police-chief-confirms-weapons-violations-are-rise/
Wonder how many of the " 54 cases so far this year." as well as last year involved Registered or LTC licens holders ? ::)
It’s unclear whether the guns involved in this week’s shootings were registered or not.
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 05, 2024, 08:59:37 AM
Wonder how many of the " 54 cases so far this year." as well as last year involved Registered or LTC licens holders ? ::)
It’s unclear whether the guns involved in this week’s shootings were registered or not.
At least 1, but it wasn't for the gun he has a CCW for. So no count?
Post by: macsak on April 05, 2024, 09:43:57 AM
It’s unclear whether the guns involved in this week’s shootings were registered or not.
Logan was asked in Wednesday’s Honolulu Police Commission meeting if recent weapons violations are linked at all to registered gun owners.
“By and large, I would say majority of the license to carry are not involved in any of these kinds of incidents,” Logan told commissioners.
Post by: zippz on April 05, 2024, 02:51:25 PM
“By and large, I would say majority of the license to carry are not involved in any of these kinds of incidents,” Logan told commissioners.
Don't like the term majority which means over 50%
Post by: zippz on April 05, 2024, 02:56:22 PM
Wonder how many of the " 54 cases so far this year." as well as last year involved Registered or LTC licens holders ? ::)
It’s unclear whether the guns involved in this week’s shootings were registered or not.
You can tell for most of them if the person is charged for firearms violations.
The Aiea home one might've been legit self defense. Though he was arrested for place to keep. Not sure how that was added on if it was due to shooting on the sidewalk or ran away with the gun.
Post by: jd0210 on April 05, 2024, 03:33:14 PM
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Post by: changemyoil66 on April 05, 2024, 04:35:59 PM
Don't like the term majority which means over 50%
Besides the guy who got into a car accident and was carrying the wrong gun, does anyone know of any other CCW holder who broke the law?
Post by: macsak on April 05, 2024, 04:42:38 PM
We in the clear yet or what?
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Post by: macsak on April 05, 2024, 09:56:15 PM
mahalo to all who wrote testimony and emails, it worked!
this time...
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=772935838268632&set=a.422659679962918 (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=772935838268632&set=a.422659679962918)
if you can, please take the time to read the testimony and appreciate the hard work and thought and passion people put into this. and note all the females who took the time to get involved!
be ready, for they will try again next year...
Post by: rpoL98 on April 05, 2024, 11:04:11 PM
the house saw all the opposition in the senate and decided to not even hear the bill...
mahalo to all who wrote testimony and emails, it worked!
this time...
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=772935838268632&set=a.422659679962918 (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=772935838268632&set=a.422659679962918)
if you can, please take the time to read the testimony and appreciate the hard work and thought and passion people put into this. and note all the females who took the time to get involved!
be ready, for they will try again next year...
(https://i.imgur.com/AIJbXD2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/njGC9IR.png)
Post by: hvybarrels on April 06, 2024, 12:06:11 AM
Post by: Shoboshi on April 06, 2024, 06:19:19 AM
Post by: Q on April 06, 2024, 07:41:04 AM
the house saw all the opposition in the senate and decided to not even hear the bill...
mahalo to all who wrote testimony and emails, it worked!
this time...
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=772935838268632&set=a.422659679962918 (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=772935838268632&set=a.422659679962918)
if you can, please take the time to read the testimony and appreciate the hard work and thought and passion people put into this. and note all the females who took the time to get involved!
be ready, for they will try again next year...
Much mahalo also to the guys who took the evidence of testimony interference to legislators to expose what people like Commrade Karl and Bronze Star Chris were trying to do.
Post by: rpoL98 on April 06, 2024, 07:51:53 AM
the house saw all the opposition in the senate and decided to not even hear the bill...
mahalo to all who wrote testimony and emails, it worked!
this time...
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=772935838268632&set=a.422659679962918 (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=772935838268632&set=a.422659679962918)
if you can, please take the time to read the testimony and appreciate the hard work and thought and passion people put into this. and note all the females who took the time to get involved!
be ready, for they will try again next year...
here's the link for the testimony, "SB3196_TESTIMONY_JDC_02-23-24_", it's a 38MB file (lots of good stuff inside, and a lot of anti-2A fluff).
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=3196&year=2024 (https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=3196&year=2024)
Much mahalo also to the guys who took the evidence of testimony interference to legislators to expose what people like Commrade Karl and Bronze Star Chris were trying to do.Seriously, these are the guys that carried the water. Thank You! :shaka:
(https://i.imgur.com/NiC1n3p.jpg)
Post by: QUIETShooter on April 06, 2024, 08:32:47 AM
Much mahalo also to the guys who took the evidence of testimony interference to legislators to expose what people like Commrade Karl and Bronze Star Chris were trying to do.
Somehow we need to figure how to oust Commrade Karl and discredit that helicopter pilot with the administratively awarded Bronze Star.......
Anyway, very happy to hear that common sense prevailed down there at that swamp called Capitol BS.
Post by: rpoL98 on April 12, 2024, 01:01:33 PM
I gotta say, we really really really dodged a bullet here, wow. still hard to believe. :geekdanc:
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 12, 2024, 01:14:13 PM
seems like Colorado AWB is about to be passed out of legislation, queued up for governor signature. seems it has a lot of similar language as SB3196. gee whiz, I wonder how come. :wacko:
I gotta say, we really really really dodged a bullet here, wow. still hard to believe. :geekdanc:
Too bad they're in the 10th circuit.