Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences (Read 32786 times)

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #200 on: March 26, 2024, 07:32:53 PM »
https://thecmp.org/training-tech/shooting-tips-from-the-usamu-service-rifle-team/usamu-faqs-equipment-and-ammunition/

Q: Sir: Thanks to you and the whole team for your articles on highpower shooting. This is my first year shooting and I am really enjoying it. I shoot both a match rifle and an AR15 Armalite service rifle. I am 52 years old. I shoot right-handed and use my right eye for aiming. I require corrective lenses for far sightedness, and this year I got bi-focal glasses for shooting. The lower lens for reading the scorebook, and the upper part of the lens provides clear focus on the front sight post thanks to my eye doctor.

I am using the smallest aperture for the rear NM sight, 0.043. While this helps improve my depth of field over the three larger apertures I have, I still have trouble getting good focus on both the front sight and the target at 600 yards (I have less of a problem at 200 and 300 yards). An experienced shooter suggested an even smaller aperture would improve the depth of field at 600. Do you agree, and if so, where is a source for a smaller aperture for my NM sight? Is there another type of insert for my NM sight that would improve the focus and keep the rifle legal for service rifle competition?

Looking forward to your response, and thanks again for your great service to shooting sports.

Keith H.

A: Mr. H
You brought up a point that many new shooters have difficulty understanding. The only thing that should be in focus is the front sight. The human eye can only focus on one thing at a time, even young eyes. While the aperture does help with the depth of field, it cannot overcome the limitations of the eye. You have to check the alignment of the front and rear sights before finalizing your aim, but final focus must only be on the front sight. The target will be blurry.

If it is not, then there is no way for you to know exactly where you are pointing the rifle. This is one of the most important things for you to make sure you do every shot, and one that will allow your scores to progress at a faster rate. Good luck.

SFC Lance Hopper


http://www.odcmp.org/0907/default.asp?page=USAMU_SIGHTPICTURE

What Sight Picture Is Best For You?

By SSG Tobie Tomlinson, USAMU Service Rifle Team Member

Which is correct? There are a myriad of sight picture options that shooters have used to great effect over the years. The sight picture that allows you to consistently shoot the smallest group, with a minimal shift in zeros, is the correct one. In the next few paragraphs we will explore a few of the more commonly used sight picture options. Remember, for any shooter to be successful, consistent sight picture must be complemented by front sight focus and sight alignment.

TLDR (at least not all). I don’t shoot service rifle nor have any interest. Understand front sight focus with irons. Cool. In the end of the day, you want to focus on the red dot, you do you. Not here to try to convince anyone one way or really care what anyone does as long as they do it safely.

Stick with what you believe. Others will progress.

ren

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #201 on: March 26, 2024, 07:42:11 PM »
TLDR (at least not all). I don’t shoot service rifle nor have any interest. Understand front sight focus with irons. Cool. In the end of the day, you want to focus on the red dot, you do you. Not here to try to convince anyone one way or really care what anyone does as long as they do it safely.

Stick with what you believe. Others will progress.
Funny how you people work on the forums. Go look up so and so. OK. I did and read it. Posted parts of articles for you to read and you didn't read it. I searched for "TLDR" to understand what it meant. In my opinion, it should stand for TFLTR.
I've read and watched Zins opinions on handgun shooting with a dot. Don't work for me. I've also listened to Gunny Roxburgh for rifle shooting and his points don't work for me either. I shot better on both pistols with red dots (bullseye) and rifle with a 4x dot by focusing on the dot. Tighter groups overall. In the end, you can drop names all you want but its just you and the target. The only consistent advice is the mental aspect and environmental considerations from most shooters I've shot with and received coaching from. Some mechanical aspects work for me some don't. Every person is not built the same. Lanny Basham's book "With Winning in Mind" I've read more over than the USAMU guide.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 07:39:19 AM by ren »
Deeds Not Words

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #202 on: March 26, 2024, 07:48:19 PM »
I've read and watched Zins opinions on handgun shooting with a dot. Don't work for me. I've also listened to Gunny Roxborough for rifle shooting and his points don't work for me either. I shot better on both pistols with red dots (bullseye) and rifle with a 4x dot by focusing on the dot. Tighter groups overall. In the end, you can drop names all you want but its just you and the target. The only consistent advice is the mental aspect and environmental considerations from most shooters I've shot with and received coaching from. Some mechanical aspects work for me some don't.
Cool. I read Winning in the Wind and others for FClass and long range & precision rifle. Copy all on mental aspect and others. Agree.

groveler

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #203 on: March 26, 2024, 07:54:52 PM »
I "suggest" that you calling a pistol your concealed carry doesn't have any meaning in this context.  If you can't get to it in a pinch, it might as well not exist.

Maybe coin a new term?  Perhaps "Out-of-State Carry (OSC)'?  That's pretty much what carry pistols were for those of us who carried them while on travel to the mainland.  The big differrence is it was still a viable home defense option here when not traveling.
Good point.
Nobody here breaks the law.
Even though it is a violation of your rights.
 :shaka:

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #204 on: March 26, 2024, 08:22:03 PM »
Shot the 43x/EPS Carry combo today. Still getting used to the micro pistol grip. The grip length on the 43x does help though. I’ll have to shoot more timed against the 17.5/EPS and Acro setups. Overall like the EPS.  Plan to shoot the 17.5/EPS in carry optics soon, and might try the 43x as well.

Shot variety of courses of fire. Bill drills, FAST, etc. Shot a little on USPSA reduced size targets, but don’t know if I like those yet.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 07:43:01 AM by drck1000 »

ren

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #205 on: March 27, 2024, 07:40:29 AM »
Shot the 43x/EPS Carry combo today. Still getting used to the micro pistol grip. The grip length on the 43x does help though. I’ll have to shoot more timed against the 17.5/EPS and Acro setups. Overall like the EPS.  Plan to shoot the 17.5/EPS in carry optics soon, and might try the 43x as well.

Shot variety of courses of fire. Bill drills, FAST, etc. Shot a little on USPSA decided size targets, but don’t know if I like those yet.

How far are those targets?
Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #206 on: March 27, 2024, 08:32:24 AM »
. Still getting used to the micro pistol grip.

TWSS

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #207 on: March 27, 2024, 08:38:31 AM »
Funny how you people work on the forums. Go look up so and so. OK. I did and read it. Posted parts of articles for you to read and you didn't read it. I searched for "TLDR" to understand what it meant. In my opinion, it should stand for TFLTR.
I've read and watched Zins opinions on handgun shooting with a dot. Don't work for me. I've also listened to Gunny Roxburgh for rifle shooting and his points don't work for me either. I shot better on both pistols with red dots (bullseye) and rifle with a 4x dot by focusing on the dot. Tighter groups overall. In the end, you can drop names all you want but its just you and the target. The only consistent advice is the mental aspect and environmental considerations from most shooters I've shot with and received coaching from. Some mechanical aspects work for me some don't. Every person is not built the same. Lanny Basham's book "With Winning in Mind" I've read more over than the USAMU guide.

I opened the link prior to your quote, and that was lengthy.  Was just saying it was long and didn't read it all before replying, so may have missed something you were trying to say. . .

I "dropped a name" of AMU shooter since you appear to have held that group in high regard. 

Great that you found a method of shooting tight groups that works for you and your chosen style and shooting interests.     

How far are those targets?
Close. . . not where atmospherics, wind, spin drift, etc matter. . .

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #208 on: March 27, 2024, 08:41:45 AM »
TWSS
If it works, it works. . .

I shot the qual course of fire yesterday with the 43x with half par times, just to see.  Tried to post the target here, but getting errors.   :(

oldfart

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #209 on: March 27, 2024, 09:00:00 AM »
Back in the day we used to design all our own courses of fire.
This thread makes me think it might be fun to design an action pistol stage where you intentionally obscure your sights.
It would be a simulation of catastrophic failure of electronic and/or iron sights.
It does happen.

In fact, you could design a whole match centered around gun failures.
What, Me Worry?

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #210 on: March 27, 2024, 09:07:10 AM »
Back in the day we used to design all our own courses of fire.
This thread makes me think it might be fun to design an action pistol stage where you intentionally obscure your sights.
It would be a simulation of catastrophic failure of electronic and/or iron sights.
It does happen.

In fact, you could design a whole match centered around gun failures.
There are groups that already do that, or used to.  Not a match though.  Sometimes happens inadvertently, like when an optic or battery goes down, but that's a good topic for a separate thread. . .

changemyoil66

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #211 on: March 27, 2024, 09:56:20 AM »
Back in the day we used to design all our own courses of fire.
This thread makes me think it might be fun to design an action pistol stage where you intentionally obscure your sights.
It would be a simulation of catastrophic failure of electronic and/or iron sights.
It does happen.

In fact, you could design a whole match centered around gun failures.

If KHSC would allow it now days.

changemyoil66

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #212 on: March 27, 2024, 09:57:33 AM »
There are groups that already do that, or used to.  Not a match though.  Sometimes happens inadvertently, like when an optic or battery goes down, but that's a good topic for a separate thread. . .

My RDS went down multiple times on my AR. Which was good becuase I got to practice flipping up the back ups to finish the exercise.  I kind of want things like this to happen, so I can get unpredicted reps in real time. Which is why I'm not a fan of 1R1.  When I practice reloads, I put random amount of rounds into the mag, this way I'm not counting.

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #213 on: March 27, 2024, 10:07:54 AM »
My RDS went down multiple times on my AR. Which was good becuase I got to practice flipping up the back ups to finish the exercise.  I kind of want things like this to happen, so I can get unpredicted reps in real time. Which is why I'm not a fan of 1R1.  When I practice reloads, I put random amount of rounds into the mag, this way I'm not counting.
Separate topic, but you can setup double feeds as well.  In a SB a LONNNGGG time ago, your partner has to setup your mags.  General intent was 2 randomly spaced casings inserted to simulate double feed to occur randomly in a COF.  My partner happened to put like 4-5 in one mag. . . ended up being during the portion of the COF where I was at the bottom of the VTAC. . . evil. . . I could hear them laughing. . .  :grrr:  ;D

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #214 on: March 27, 2024, 10:14:21 AM »
Not sure reloads have anything to do with red dots.

I've never had a RD stop working.  I make sure to turn them off when in the safe, and I replace the batteries once a year.  For the AimPoint PRO, it was a 2-year schedule.

In the grand scheme of things, batteries are a cheap, expendable item.  If you're waiting until it stops working it so you can save a dollar, you're setting yourself up for a visit from Mr. Murphy.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

drck1000

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #215 on: March 27, 2024, 10:22:44 AM »
Not sure reloads have anything to do with red dots.

I've never had a RD stop working.  I make sure to turn them off when in the safe, and I replace the batteries once a year.  For the AimPoint PRO, it was a 2-year schedule.

In the grand scheme of things, batteries are a cheap, expendable item.  If you're waiting until it stops working it so you can save a dollar, you're setting yourself up for a visit from Mr. Murphy.
There’s also quality in batteries. And prob how long said battery was on the shelf.

A buddy has their battery die when on the range recently. It was Holosun that he bought new recently. I would also expect the battery to be good, but no idea how long the battery was on the shelves at Holosun (or whichever company).

But yeah, best to change regularly. I have battery meters, but even those aren’t super reliable indicators.

But, if you’re like CMO, you’re proud when the optic fails and can experience it.  ;D

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #216 on: March 27, 2024, 11:01:05 AM »
There’s also quality in batteries. And prob how long said battery was on the shelf.

A buddy has their battery die when on the range recently. It was Holosun that he bought new recently. I would also expect the battery to be good, but no idea how long the battery was on the shelves at Holosun (or whichever company).

But yeah, best to change regularly. I have battery meters, but even those aren’t super reliable indicators.

But, if you’re like CMO, you’re proud when the optic fails and can experience it.  ;D

Seems like something turning the dot "off" could accomplish. 

 :thumbsup: :shaka:
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

changemyoil66

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #217 on: March 27, 2024, 01:27:39 PM »
Seems like something turning the dot "off" could accomplish. 

 :thumbsup: :shaka:

That's what the poors do. The guys with buku dollahs purposely buy dead or close to dead batteries.  :rofl:

zippz

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #218 on: March 27, 2024, 05:55:07 PM »
There’s also quality in batteries. And prob how long said battery was on the shelf.

A buddy has their battery die when on the range recently. It was Holosun that he bought new recently. I would also expect the battery to be good, but no idea how long the battery was on the shelves at Holosun (or whichever company).

But yeah, best to change regularly. I have battery meters, but even those aren’t super reliable indicators.

But, if you’re like CMO, you’re proud when the optic fails and can experience it.  ;D

Another possibility is upside down battery.
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ren

Re: Red Dot on Handgun - Sharing Experiences
« Reply #219 on: March 27, 2024, 06:09:30 PM »
Red dots are the perfect tools for short attention span shooters. If I was in a situation that close I'd just run. I hate running but I run 9-12 miles a week because I am fat. In a situation, I'd run get to a "safe place" call 911 and whistle for my big dog.
Deeds Not Words