State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners (Read 5200 times)

London808

State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« on: March 20, 2019, 10:17:42 PM »
State of Hawaii Steals Millions of Dollars From Gun Owners

State of Hawaii collects fees associated with non-functioning federal services to collect funds from Hawaii gun owners who get no service provided in return.

Currently, Hawaii requires all persons in the state to pay a fee for a criminal background check and to be entered into the FBI Rap Back system if they wish to obtain or register a firearm.
 Hawaii passed a law in 2016 that requires enrollment into the FBI Rap Back system. They started collecting funds in December of that year.  The enrollment into Rap Back causes the person to be entered into a federal database where their fingerprints are run against all arrest records and against latent fingerprints from crime scenes to determine if that person is a criminal. This check is not just done on past fingerprints, but all fingerprints collected into the future.  Therefore, owning a firearm in Hawaii makes you a suspect to any crime the FBI encounters.

The Rap Back system also uses a reporting function where: if a person is arrested anywhere in the United States of America, the state and county police departments would be notified and would then determine if that person’s actions (elsewhere) would prelude them from owning firearms in Hawaii.
To do so, the state and counties require the firearm applicant, or person registering a firearm, to sign a waiver of their 4th amendment right. Thus, allowing themselves to be entered into the system.

The FBI says that the Rap Back system is voluntary for non-criminal use. Hawaii makes it required by law. If you don’t sign the waiver, you can’t own a firearm.  In fact, if someone refuses to sign the waiver when registering a firearm, the county police departments will seize the firearm.  They can then arrest you for failure to register the firearm within the required time limit.

During the March 15th hearings for bills relating to firearms at the Hawaii State Capital, it was brought to light that the State of Hawaii, via the Hawaii County Police Department, has been collecting funds from firearms owners along with consent forms in relation to the FBI Rap Back program.  The fee for fingerprinting an enrollment currently stands at $43.25. 

The problem with this is the system is not set up.  The State has no firearm owners enrolled in the Rap Back system.

During the year of 2017, the State of Hawaii had 40,635 firearms registered.   Enrollment into the Rap Back system is required to register a firearm or must have been done previously when obtaining a permit to acquire that firearm. This would lead us to believe that the state collected more than $1.7 million from firearm owners. Even though the system required is not in place. If a similar number of firearms were registered in 2018 (report will not be available until May) this number could be as much as $3 million.
Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center is paid the fees collected by the counties, which are meant to be used to process fingerprints, and for entry of the individual’s information into the FBI Rap Back database. Currently, the fees cover the cost of processing all the data for the individual.  However, if the cost were to rise, the fees would fall short. Thus, resulting in a hefty expense to the state.  A price increase of $0.50 per entry would result in the state having to find an extra $40,000 or more.

Firearm owners are being charged these fees due to the state’s requirement that they pay for the Rap Back service to be provided to them. So far, no service is being provided.  It has been more than two   years and we’re being led to believe that it will never be available.  WHY are they still being charged? Why would you collect funds for a service that’s not available? It’s like paying an electricity bill, but not being hooked up the grid.

We feel the state’s purpose is to dissuade those who believe that their right to privacy is as equally as important as their right to bear arms. We also feel, some people who would otherwise purchase a firearm, simply will not pay for and sign away their other rights to do so.

The State of Hawaii and the county police departments not only owe firearm owners in Hawaii an apology, until the system is working correctly and is available for use, they also need to stop collecting funds and personal data for the Rap Back system. They should also need to refund people who have paid fees with no service provided.  We feel that this is equivalent to theft. If anyone else collected money for a service they are unable to provide, criminal charges would shortly follow.  Therefore, we feel, there are wrongs that need to be righted.

Hawaii firearms Coalition has set up a webform for Hawaii firearm owners to request a refund of the fees associated with Rap Back. You can find the form at  www.hifico.org/rapback.

Once completed, the form will automatically e-mail the Attorney General’s office, requesting a refund for the fees collected and associated with Rap Back.

Andrew Namiki Roberts
DIRECTOR Hawaii Firearms Coalition
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Direjackalope

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 11:31:46 PM »
Keep up the great work boys.

hvybarrels

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2019, 11:38:36 PM »
Was there ever stronger evidence that all this "common sense" bullshit is more about disarmament than public safety?
“Wars happen when the government tells you who the enemy is. Revolutions happen when you figure it out for yourselves.”

oldfart

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2019, 01:08:08 AM »
Can this post stand up to a fact check investigation?
What, Me Worry?

punaperson

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2019, 06:06:17 AM »
Was there ever stronger evidence that all this "common sense" bullshit is more about disarmament than public safety?
I'll take the challenge, but it's a tough one because all the laws infringing our rights are bullshit, but...

State senator Karl Rhoads: “The open carry states are ones where everybody gets shot..."

* * * *
PS Everyone please post when you get your RapBack "fee" refund from the AG/state/county/fascists.

RSN172

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2019, 06:49:10 AM »

State senator Karl Rhoads: “The open carry states are ones where everybody gets shot..."


I just got back from AZ and NV.  I saw people open carrying in a jewelry store and Denny's Restaurant in AZ and in a Ross store and IKEA in NV.  Nobody blinked an eye and no one got shot.  And at Front Sight, you can leave your personal possessions unattended anywhere and no one will mess with it.  Just shows how respectful and law-abiding legal gun owners who carry are.

changemyoil66

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 09:16:16 AM »
I just got back from AZ and NV.  I saw people open carrying in a jewelry store and Denny's Restaurant in AZ and in a Ross store and IKEA in NV.  Nobody blinked an eye and no one got shot.  And at Front Sight, you can leave your personal possessions unattended anywhere and no one will mess with it.  Just shows how respectful and law-abiding legal gun owners who carry are.

Politicians do not get that if a gun owner commits a felony, they lost their gun rights for life.  So we extra good.

6716J

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 10:11:22 AM »
Politicians do not get that if a gun owner commits a felony, they lost their gun rights for life.  So we extra good.

politicians answer "ainokea"
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

Direjackalope

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2019, 04:29:31 PM »
Your request for a $43.25 Rap Back fee refund is denied.   There is no fee charged for participation in the Rap Back subscription service.   The $43.25 fee paid to the county police when you applied for a firearm permit or registration was for a fingerprint-based criminal history check fee.  The fee is required to process your fingerprint and obtain your criminal history. A fingerprint-based background check is required by State firearm laws.  The fee charged for a fingerprint-based criminal history check for firearm registration and ownership is the same fee charged to other applicants for licensures or employment that are required to complete a fingerprint-based criminal history check. 
     
The Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center recently learned that the Honolulu Police Department’s (HPD) website mistakenly listed the fingerprint-based criminal history check fee as a Rap Back fee.  HPD has corrected their website. 
     
Thank you for your understanding in this matter. 


Philip D. Higdon
Assistant Administrator
Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center
Department of the Attorney General
465 South King Street, Room 101
Honolulu, HI 96813
(808) 587-3341
(808) 587-3109 Fax
philip.d.higdon@hawaii.gov

drck1000

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2019, 04:43:15 PM »
Your request for a $43.25 Rap Back fee refund is denied.   There is no fee charged for participation in the Rap Back subscription service.   The $43.25 fee paid to the county police when you applied for a firearm permit or registration was for a fingerprint-based criminal history check fee.  The fee is required to process your fingerprint and obtain your criminal history. A fingerprint-based background check is required by State firearm laws.  The fee charged for a fingerprint-based criminal history check for firearm registration and ownership is the same fee charged to other applicants for licensures or employment that are required to complete a fingerprint-based criminal history check. 
     
The Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center recently learned that the Honolulu Police Department’s (HPD) website mistakenly listed the fingerprint-based criminal history check fee as a Rap Back fee.  HPD has corrected their website. 
     
Thank you for your understanding in this matter. 


Philip D. Higdon
Assistant Administrator
Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center
Department of the Attorney General
465 South King Street, Room 101
Honolulu, HI 96813
(808) 587-3341
(808) 587-3109 Fax
philip.d.higdon@hawaii.gov
When I was there today, a lady came out and was ripping down some stuff that was posted. One was the sign that said the fee was $43.25. I asked her what was up and she said something about “political stuff”. I also saw them whiting out something at the top of the Rapback form. Whatever was next to the red “Rap Back Paid” stamp. I was chatting with the guy who did the prints and he said part of fee is to submit fingerprints for review in FBI database and another part for “filing with the county”, or something like that. Something about if you register handguns in a different county, you’d have to pay the fee again.

Direjackalope

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2019, 04:45:14 PM »
I'm just happy to see them inconvenienced.

punaperson

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2019, 09:13:09 PM »
I'm just happy to see them inconvenienced.
Yeah, I'd like to see them "inconvenienced"...  :geekdanc:

rklapp

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2019, 01:24:31 PM »
If I recall, the fingerprinting fee was $16.25 before Rapback. Then it increased to $42 with the Rapback. The explanation was that the extra fee was going for inclusion into the FBI database. If my application is not going to the FBI, then I deserve to have the fee back.

I filled out the HIFICO form. It would probably more effective if I included my receipts. I'll have to find them someday in the box next to my previous tax filings.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

tillamook

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2019, 01:33:33 PM »
so when they get around to sending the details to the FBI, are they going to charge then?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: State of Hawaii steals millions from gun owners
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2019, 04:15:07 PM »
If I recall, the fingerprinting fee was $16.25 before Rapback. Then it increased to $42 with the Rapback. The explanation was that the extra fee was going for inclusion into the FBI database. If my application is not going to the FBI, then I deserve to have the fee back.

I filled out the HIFICO form. It would probably more effective if I included my receipts. I'll have to find them someday in the box next to my previous tax filings.

I believe the fee was $14.75 for fingerprinting before RAPBACK took over.

For those who already paid that "one time" fee, it should be refunded along with the extra RAPBACK cost.

I have a feeling they'll justify keeping it if they upgraded the fingerprint system, necessitating reprinting everyone digitally.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall