Permit line @ HPD (Read 10429 times)

QUIETShooter

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2023, 09:03:32 AM »
I also want to thank Zippz for all he has done for the 2a cause and particularly for this issue.

The problem lies entirely with HPD.  Zippz talking to the Sgt. is a cordial attempt to remind them of the settlement and not try (if that was the intent) to circumvent it at their convenience.

If there was new people and they didn't know, again, the problem is with HPD.  A troubling training issue that seems to be plaguing the department, as the recent unattended rifle incident shows recently.

After all, what good would it have done if you go in screaming and yelling about a settlement issue.  HPD, State, and County has the hammer over all of us.

They know it, and are full of it when they remind us of it.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2023, 09:32:23 AM »
I also want to thank Zippz for all he has done for the 2a cause and particularly for this issue.

The problem lies entirely with HPD.  Zippz talking to the Sgt. is a cordial attempt to remind them of the settlement and not try (if that was the intent) to circumvent it at their convenience.

If there was new people and they didn't know, again, the problem is with HPD.  A troubling training issue that seems to be plaguing the department, as the recent unattended rifle incident shows recently.

After all, what good would it have done if you go in screaming and yelling about a settlement issue.  HPD, State, and County has the hammer over all of us.

They know it, and are full of it when they remind us of it.

Have you seen how many signs and posters they have around the records and firearms sections?

it's NOT a training issue.  It's giving the issue high enough priority that they spend 2 minutes putting together a list of policies and procedures for the Firearms section workers to look at.  Post it on the countertop, on the window facing them, on the backside of the door so they see it when closing up, ...

Following a simple checklist doesn't take much "training."  How much training was needed for you to make your first KHSC target frames?  Did you take a class, or did you simply follow the written (digital) instructions?

Someone just needs to be proactive enough to actually print out the rules for everyone -- not just the newbies.
"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

QUIETShooter

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2023, 09:54:35 AM »
Have you seen how many signs and posters they have around the records and firearms sections?

it's NOT a training issue.  It's giving the issue high enough priority that they spend 2 minutes putting together a list of policies and procedures for the Firearms section workers to look at.  Post it on the countertop, on the window facing them, on the backside of the door so they see it when closing up, ...



Ok.  If it's not a training issue, something still is wrong over there.  I would think somebody is in charge at the firearms section and would know that on Wednesdays you stay until everyone in line at closing time is serviced.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2023, 10:06:01 AM »
Ok.  If it's not a training issue, something still is wrong over there.  I would think somebody is in charge at the firearms section and would know that on Wednesdays you stay until everyone in line at closing time is serviced.

The buck stops with the Chief of Police.  If nobody complains loudly enough -- i.e. just talking to the desk workers and the SGT -- then how is anything going to get done to the public's satisfaction?  This is such a small, simple issue that it should have never happened in the first place.

HPD has written policies on everything.  After a lawsuit settlement, one would imagine they would give that enough attention to avoid violating their agreement.

So, either they misinterpreted the agreement, or they did this in spite of the agreement intentionally.  Simply failing to follow it because of "training" or any other excuse is not acceptable.

If the agreement was part of a court order, then they may be guilty of contempt of court, which can rise to a criminal offense, not just civil.

I have a problem when the people in charge of making me follow the rules get caught not following the rules -- especially when there's no real excuse for it.

"How can you diagnose someone with an obsessive-compulsive disorder
and then act as though I had some choice about barging in?"
-- Melvin Udall

BastosGuy

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2023, 10:51:06 PM »
I talked to the SGT at HPD and explained the Wednesday incident.  He wasn't there at the time and not aware there was an incident, and will bring it up the chain.

I asked that they send out a notice ahead of time if they do it again, and for an apology to the 15 people affected.

It should be a rare occurrence, probably every thanksgiving, and some major holidays depending when it falls.
I was there on 11/22. Got in line at 3:15pm and left at 6:45pm. Average time per person seemed to be around 20 minutes. I believe there were about 20 people already in line when I got there. At 6:20, a female officer came out and told everyone that they close in ten minutes and that they’ll be open on Friday. Like someone said in another post there was around 10-15 people still in line. I’m sure this can be corroborated if they checked the security camera footage. A woman in civilian clothing actually kept coming out to make sure everyone had the correct paperwork, surveyed the line, and also said that everyone currently in line will be served that day.

I had all the correct paperwork. Filled out forms for two firearms. Had my photo taken, no fingerprints. Still got out in 18-20 minutes. 

Per my calculations, around 20 people, 20 minutes per person, two services desks, still comes out to almost 3.5 hours.  The timing almost matches the hours that I was there, 3:15 - 6:45.

Eric808

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2023, 06:42:22 AM »
My wife and I were also in the line on the 22nd.  Got there at 3:45 (22 in line) and also experienced the "We are closing in 10 minutes."   Two guys in front of us left, leaving two in front of us, who got in the door just before 6:30.  Then the female officer with glasses, said something like that is all for today.  I mentioned about the lawsuit that anyone in line by 6:30 will be served, her response was "Then we would be here all night." so those who waited were turned away.

Yesterday my wife with her sister got in line at 1:45 with about 30+ in line.  Because of the rain the line wrapped back under the building cover.  There was a guy with his little son went in, he said he is not cutting, and he also mentioned that it took him 5 hours this morning.  We got in the door at 6:22 and when we left there were 24 still in line.  Note: noticed about 5 or so leaving while we were in line.

Thank you DesertRangerTycho for monitoring and reminding the staff of the lawsuit.

For those in line by 6:30, could you let us know what  time did you finish.

randay

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2023, 10:58:32 AM »
My wife and I were also in the line on the 22nd.  Got there at 3:45 (22 in line) and also experienced the "We are closing in 10 minutes."   Two guys in front of us left, leaving two in front of us, who got in the door just before 6:30.  Then the female officer with glasses, said something like that is all for today.  I mentioned about the lawsuit that anyone in line by 6:30 will be served, her response was "Then we would be here all night." so those who waited were turned away.

Yesterday my wife with her sister got in line at 1:45 with about 30+ in line.  Because of the rain the line wrapped back under the building cover.  There was a guy with his little son went in, he said he is not cutting, and he also mentioned that it took him 5 hours this morning.  We got in the door at 6:22 and when we left there were 24 still in line.  Note: noticed about 5 or so leaving while we were in line.

Thank you DesertRangerTycho for monitoring and reminding the staff of the lawsuit.

For those in line by 6:30, could you let us know what  time did you finish.

Now that is a really long wait! crazy

Eric808

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2023, 11:25:13 AM »
I tried looking but not successful, could someone please post a link for the lawsuit settlement for the "Wednesday nights, process everyone in line before 6:30," so we can print it out and hare it in our submission packet documentation.
Thanks

https://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Articles-Main/ID/25769/Settlement-Improves-Honolulu-Gun-Registration-System
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Portals/0/Article%20Attachments/Article%20Attachments%202020/Yukutake%20Settlement%20Agreement.pdf?ver=2020-06-10-044938-420&timestamp=1592220130290

changemyoil66

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2023, 11:36:10 AM »
I tried looking but not successful, could someone please post a link for the lawsuit settlement for the "Wednesday nights, process everyone in line before 6:30," so we can print it out and hare it in our submission packet documentation.
Thanks

https://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Articles-Main/ID/25769/Settlement-Improves-Honolulu-Gun-Registration-System
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Portals/0/Article%20Attachments/Article%20Attachments%202020/Yukutake%20Settlement%20Agreement.pdf?ver=2020-06-10-044938-420&timestamp=1592220130290

RifleArts

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2023, 01:22:52 PM »
3+ hours today 12/1/23

defend_hawaii

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2023, 10:41:51 PM »
A friend told me Mondays are the worst is that true?
🤙

808Hunta

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2023, 11:42:29 AM »
A friend told me Mondays are the worst is that true?
🤙

Idk if it's true or not, but my wife went there at 8 this morning and was 23rd in line. She texted me at 1015 she hadn't moved in an hour. She also texted that someone had come out and passed out paperwork to those who hadn't done it.

So not sure what's up and why it's taking so long? She texted her phone was almost dead so we'll have to see how it went.

Alika

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2023, 06:20:13 PM »
Yikes 😬!

defend_hawaii

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2023, 07:33:12 PM »
Got there at 6:55 this morning with 18 people in front of me. First guy in line was there at 4:45. Line moved super slow and I got done at 11am. With about 25 people still in line when I left.   Guy behind the desk with glasses was super nice. Wish we had more state employees like him.

changemyoil66

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2023, 08:02:41 PM »
So who brings food or water?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

zippz

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2023, 08:21:56 PM »
Reservations for Hilo is a month out.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

rpoL98

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2023, 04:11:27 PM »
holy cow, things really have gone from bad to worse.  Karl Rhoads must be pleased.

changemyoil66

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2023, 07:35:21 PM »
holy cow, things really have gone from bad to worse.  Karl Rhoads must be pleased.
He has a boner.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

zhuzhits

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2023, 08:16:40 AM »
8am. Forgot to count, but looked to be about 20 in line. Line went almost to stairs.

changemyoil66

Re: Permit line @ HPD
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2023, 09:05:20 AM »
8am. Forgot to count, but looked to be about 20 in line. Line went almost to stairs.

keep us posted with total time you're there.